“Oversight of Fraud and Misuse of Federal Funds in Minnesota: Part I”
No chapters available yet
Legend
Transcript markers
- text Sentence being played
- text Search result
- text Intervention cited by the link you opened
Click a sentence to play the video from that moment. Select text to quote it with the speaker, timestamp and link.
More options
House Oversight and Government Reform U.S. House of Representatives
Follow its sittingsSpeaker 2
Thank you, Chairman Comer. I just wanna start by thanking, of course, our witnesses for being here today and for all of our members being back. We all agree. I think everyone on both sides of the aisle can agree that fraud is a threat at every level of government, in every private sector business, and to every single American. Fraud exists everywhere.
When I was mayor of my hometown in Long Beach, we worked for better and more efficient government, and took on fraud whenever it existed and wherever it appeared to protect taxpayers. It's something that all of us take seriously every day. When we find fraud, we should punish people and those that are committing it against the American public, especially when it damages services that people rely on. Now what we should not do is use fraud as an excuse to rip away aid from innocent people who follow the rules and need help in our society. We should fight fraud when people rip off programs designed to help working families.
And, also, we should fight fraud when large corporations and wealthy individuals dodge their taxes and rig the system for their own benefit. And, especially, we should fight fraud when figures in our government, particularly those in power within the White House or agencies, get rich and profit from their offices. Fraud is never acceptable, and it undermines public trust whoever commits it. But let's remember that some of the worst fraud and corruption is actually found at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Republicans like to talk about fraud in states with Democratic governors, oftentimes exclusively.
But Republicans also have a president who has pardoned or reduced jail time for 25 criminals convicted of fraud in this year alone. Now some of these frauds, sir, have also made huge campaign contributions to Donald Trump. And worst of all, Trump's pardons mean that these criminals can avoid paying back more than $1,000,000,000, which they owe their victims and dwarfs much of the fraud that the house majority wants to talk about today. This is actually the opposite of accountability. Instead, the House majority wants to excuse and cut programs which they have done from the start.
Now Donald Trump's signature law cut money for health care and food programs. Medicaid and CHIP help almost half the kids in the United States see a doctor. And that, we lost, of course, 1 trillion dollars in those programs. Over 10 million people could lose health care. Trump's law also cut 40,000,000 people who use SNAP, and this includes, by the way, one out of every 5 kids.
Speaker 2
is happening not just in Minnesota. The president plans to freeze more than 10,000,000,000 for child care subsidies, social services, and cash support for low-income families in Minnesota, New York, Colorado, Illinois, and my home state of California. Of course, we know these states have democratic governors that Donald Trump wants to punish. We should look at those consequences if we wanna talk about fraud. In Minnesota, which we're talking about today, Donald Trump is removing childcare funding for the entire state. That frozen funding provides childcare for over 18,000 kids.
These kids didn't commit fraud. So I want to know why they should be punished. Last night, he said he's withholding all possible Medicaid funds from Minnesota, which could harm one in five residents. Now in New York, another state he's threatening, that's over 66,000 innocent kids, while pardoning, of course, 25 fraudsters and robbing victims of over $1,000,000,000. Donald Trump should have to face the kids and parents who will be hurt, even though they've done nothing wrong.
I wanna know what the president and the House majority expect the parents of these kids to do. Many don't seem to care. He wants to pardon and protect more rich crooks and fraudsters who have robbed over $1,000,000,000 from innocent people. Now in California, in my home state, this threatens over 176,000 kids. 176,000 kids.
Well, he continues, of course, to pardon fraudsters and connected folks who have donated immense amounts of money to his campaign. Now this hurts not just democratic families, but Republican families. It's innocent kids, regardless of political party, who need childcare. We are in an affordability crisis, and the majority is not going after the real fraud that's being committed to the American public. Now in Illinois, he has threatened funding for more than 62,000 kids.
62,000 kids. And finally, in Colorado, the other state that he's going after, more than 16,000 kids will lose funding. But we know, of course, that the president will let his friends get away with crimes. And I wanna point out one last thing, which is so important. While Donald Trump attacks these states, the Wall Street Journal on Monday reported a massive Mississippi scandal.
Mississippi, of course, isn't on Trump's list. We don't have witnesses from Mississippi here today. Overset Republicans aren't calling the governor Tate. And I think the question is, why? We have real fraud happening, yet there's zero interest, apparently, in what's happening here in Mississippi and other places.
Republicans wanna cut benefits and attack states with Democratic governors. And what it is done, particularly in places like Minnesota, it has unleashed bigotry and hate. Minnesota child care centers have become the target of harassment, and even vandalism and theft. Parents are afraid to drop their kids off in the morning and go to work. This is an opportunity, again, to attack the house majority and smear innocent people without evidence.
If we cared about fraud, we'd be starting at the very top. This is critical for the country and to actually take on fraud and abuse and the fraudsters that are being pardoned across The United States. Mister chairman, I yield back.
Speaker 1
Gentleman yields back. I would like to now welcome our witnesses here today. First, we have Kristen Robbins, chairwoman of the fraud prevention and state agency oversight policy committee, and representative for District 37A in the Minnesota House of Representatives. Welcome. Next, we have Walter Hudson, a member of the fraud prevention and state agency oversight policy committee, and representative for Minnesota's District 30A.
Next, we have Marion Rarek, a member of the fraud prevention and state agency oversight policy committee and representative for District 29B in Minnesota. Lastly, we have Brendan Ballou, a former special counsel at the Department of Justice. Thank you all for joining us, and we look forward to your testimony today. This is an issue the American people are very interested in. Pursuant to committee rule nine g.
The witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God. Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you all, and you may take a seat.
We appreciate you being here today, and look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements, and they will appear in full in the hearing record. Please limit your oral statements to 5 minutes. As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on, and the members can hear you. When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green.
After four minutes, the light will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your five minutes have expired, and we would ask that you please wrap up. I now recognize Representative Robbins for her opening statement.
Speaker 4
Good morning, Mister Chairman and members. Thank you for inviting us to testify. As chair of the fraud prevention committee in Minnesota, I've been working to uncover the massive fraud under Tim Walls, propose solutions, and hold state agencies accountable. Today, I will highlight the scale of the problem, outline what the worker committee is doing to fight the fraud, and provide a road map for other states on how to detect and stop fraud. Minnesota is one of the highest tax states in the nation, and hardworking Minnesotans have been told that they don't pay their fair share for years.
In truth, Minnesotans pay much more in taxes than in other states. And when they pay their taxes, they expect that their money is going to things that help our communities, roads, schools, health care, and law enforcement. They do not want their tax dollars absconded by criminals to buy resorts and apartment buildings in Kenya, property in Turkey, and luxury homes and cars in the US. Tim Walls and his administration have willfully turned a blind eye to crime in the face of countless whistleblower and auditor reports, as well as stories by local investigative journalists and the Center for the American Experiment. These are actual crimes that must be punished.
They are crimes against our moral values and erode trust in the government. The time for accountability and justice is here. First, we are unearthing staggering amounts of fraud in Minnesota. As far back as 2014, there were credible whistleblower allegations of millions in daycare fraud. Instead of shutting it down, the state minimized whistleblower reports and allowed fraud to grow.
Unfortunately, childcare fraud was just the tip of the iceberg. In '20 since 2019, Tim Walls and Minnesota Democrats have allowed fraud to absolutely explode in Minnesota. There's been more than $300,000,000 in the Feeding Our Future child nutrition program scandal, and the Feeding Our Future prosecutions revealed that as many as half of those indicted also ran other Medicaid-funded programs. Yet despite this being known back in 2023, Tim Walsh and his agencies have done nothing to stop those defendants from getting additional state money. We have now found fraud in multiple Medicaid programs, including autism centers, sober homes, non-emergency medical transportation, integrated community supports, and housing stabilization.
Just last month, our committee held a hearing on credible allegations of fraud in two new areas: adult day services and assisted living. First, US attorney Joe Thompson, the leading prosecutor in these cases from the Biden administration and the Trump administration, says the fraud could be an astronomical $9,000,000,000. In the face of mounting reports and literal criminal indictments and convictions, the Walls administration has repeatedly and publicly denied or downplayed the fraud. Just last January, the commissioner of DHS, Jody Harpstead, who'd been on the job for five and a half years, said there's a lot more rumors of fraud than actual fraud. You cannot make this up.
The Walls administration has been gaslighting Minnesotans on the scale of the fraud problem for years. In response, when Republicans took control or ended Democrat control of the Minnesota House last year, we created the fraud prevention and state agency oversight committee. Since last February, we have held 15 hearings where we have grilled officials, exposed new areas of fraud, and repeatedly flagged failures in internal controls. I authored a new law to expand whistleblower protection, and we created a portal, mnfraud.com, resulting in a surge of new whistleblower reports that our amazing staff is still working through. Under the leadership of our vice chair, Patty Anderson, we passed a bipartisan bill in the Senate to create an independent office of inspector general.
When it got to the House, Democrats killed it because the DHS commissioner testified against it. The Tim Walz administration has utterly failed to protect Minnesota taxpayers and vulnerable citizens, ignoring years of credible reports and retaliating against those who spoke up often by claiming they were racist or Islamophobic. Tim Walls and the Democrats have repeatedly protected their political base at the expense of all Minnesotans. Other states should learn from the failures of the Wall's administration. So I'll give you a quick roadmap on how to find and stop fraud.
First, culture matters. Fraud flourishes when leaders ignore it, and criminals see they can get away with it. Second, fraud flourishes when basic internal controls are not followed. This is not complicated. Third, you have to look at the interconnections of relationships in businesses and multiple program areas in Medicaid.
It's a huge red flag that has been ignored in our state. Finally, it is important to say what is true and to stand up against fake allegations of racism or Islamophobia. Crime is crime, no matter who is committing it. It is true that the majority of the fraud in Minnesota has taken place in the Somali community, and it is also true that some of our best whistleblowers are from the Somali community. Democrats refused to acknowledge this truth, and that has enabled criminals to steal billions and hurt our vulnerable citizens.
Mister chairman, thank you for the opportunity to share the lessons from Minnesota, and for your help in investigating these crimes. The time for justice and accountability is now.
Speaker 5
Chairman, ranking member, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today, for the record. I am Minnesota state representative Walter Hudson, a second-term member who sits on our house fraud prevention and state agency oversight committee. The recent national conversation about fraud in Minnesota has been fraught with distractions, diverting from critical concerns regarding process, policy, and oversight, to sideshow concerns about personalities and partisan politics. My role here today is to cut through all of that and provide you with a clear picture of a culture which has developed over many years around the several generous benefit programs that Minnesota provides to our residents. Well-documented oversight failures have led to a lack of program integrity, creating incentives for people to monetize programs beyond their legislative intent to turn benefits into business.
Contrary to the claim just made by the ranking member that there is no evidence of this fraud, attached to my written testimony, you will find a document which collates several reports made over the past 15 years by Minnesota's nonpartisan office of legislative auditor, along with transcripts of each of our hearings from the fraud committee, where we heard directly from staff and leaders within the state agencies which administer these programs. Here's what that record indicates. Within the state of Minnesota, government oversight has been unable to keep up with program expansion due to a combination of factors. One, rapid expansion of funding and provider participation. Two, payment systems that prioritize access and speed.
Three verification mechanisms that occur after funds are distributed. Four, oversight capacity that does not scale with spending, and five, diffuse accountability across agencies and contractors. This combination of factors has fostered a booming new sector of the economy that relies upon the continuation of and expansion of government programs to fuel private-sector profits. I wanna be clear. Even when the law is being followed precisely by every jot and tittle, incentives still exist to abuse these programs and waste taxpayer dollars by diverting funding to profit centers rather than providing a safety net for those in temporary need.
Now, criminal fraud is rampant. Deputy US attorney Joe Thompson, serving the District of Minnesota, has said that he could keep 1,000 prosecutors busy, but he's limited to a mere 25, only five of which are tasked with building fraud cases. He estimates that the total amount of criminal fraud over five years may reach $9,000,000,000, which is fully one-half of the money that has been directed to these programs by the state. While Governor Tim Walls and other stakeholders dispute that assessment, the point I wish to emphasize is this. Whatever the actual number is, the full scope of the problem is not just criminal fraud, but a culture of profiting from government programs in perpetuity, not as a safety net, but as an industry.
I have personally met and had discussions with folks who identify themselves as consultants for multiple entities accepting government benefits. They have made a career out of showing people how to leverage the gaps in government oversight to maximize benefit payments. Now such conduct may not actually break the law, and that's the point. We have a system whereby an entire industry can operate under the color of law, making raking in tremendous profits for individuals, all while having no incentive to save the taxpayer money or lift legitimate beneficiaries out of need. Instead, as the market for funneling benefits into businesses increases, so too does the perceived need for benevolent services.
If nothing changes, if oversight is not tightened, if incentives are not changed, spending on these programs will only continue to increase with no commensurate increase in either public good or public confidence in our governing institutions. Thank you for the opportunity to submit this testimony for the record. I look forward to answering what questions I can.
Speaker 6
Good morning, Mister Chairman and members. For the record, my name is Marion Rarek, and I am currently serving in the Minnesota House of Representatives in House District 29B. I am a member of the Minnesota House Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Committee, which was recently formed in January '25. I was first asked to serve on the committee on January 4, and soon after, the five Republican members began to meet. During one of those discussions, I was asked to reach out to the Department of Human Services whistleblowers on X, now called Minnesota staff fraud reporting commentary.
I had been following them in the previous year. I reached out through a direct tweet on X on January 16, and the very same day, I got a response back that, yes, they would be willing to speak to the fraud prevention committee. Since that first contact, chair Robbins and I, and, well, representative Hudson have had multiple conference calls with them, and we have had one in person meeting. At that meeting, they were both former and current employees. I've continued to message them very often, sometimes daily, and their collective message has been completely consistent.
Instead of focusing on fraudsters, DHS leadership instead focuses its surveillance on employees. Since then, their expressed fear of retaliation has intensified under an avalanche of fraud in Minnesota. Their numbers have grown from 480 DHS employees, both current and former, to over 1,000 across multiple state agencies. They have told me repeatedly how grateful they are to the House Fraud Prevention Committee for focusing our attention on fraud in the state programs, using their inside information while keeping them completely protected. They have explained that they live in a constant state of fear of retaliation.
One only has to look at what happened to Fay Bernstein to understand why. In a very recent Newsweek article dated 12/13/2025, Miss Bernstein, a former compliance specialist, stated Minnesota DHS functions in the opposite manner as you would think. Employees who suggest improvements or, heaven forbid, report fraud, then face significant retaliation. The messenger is shot. In 2019, Bernstein said she alerted Minnesota DHS officials to sloppy contracting practices that were not legally compliant.
But it's not what most people would even consider fraud. She says she was later escorted out of the building, faced a lengthy investigation, got trespassed from all DHS owned and leased properties, and received an involuntary transfer to another state agency. So she says, so today if someone asks me, should I report fraud within the DHS? I say no. No.
No. It is career suicide, plus a whole lot more. So let's talk about that, plus a whole lot more. In our face-to-face meetings with a group of whistleblowers, they revealed that retaliation now includes threats of being fired with cause, which means you do not get unemployment insurance in the state of Minnesota, being blacklisted from all state agencies, and I would note most likely our largest counties as well, which are Democrat run. And then there was a veiled threat of the use of military intelligence against them.
They later informed me that it was discovered that in some targeted employees or suspected whistle blowers, personnel files were pictures of their homes and their cars. They also described that supervisors asked them questions about their families that, to them, felt like a threat. One example was, we need to know where kids go to school and where their bus stops are. I will also note that whistleblowers we spoke to described many times at DHS use surveillance programs to surveil employees' emails and chats and other communications, looking for keywords like fraud, double billing, underspending, and overpayments. One example that the whistleblowers let me know about, Lieutenant Governor Flanagan.
04/12/2024, Flanagan comes to a DHS Health and Human Services equity conference at the Heritage Center and Brooklyn Center. On stage, Flanagan acknowledges the x account and the fraud concerns it raised, and publicly denounced the x users and called them weirdos and losers sitting in their mother's basement. This was in a public setting with hundreds of participants, and elicited gasps among the crowd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 7
Thank you. My name is Brennan Baloo. I'm a former federal prosecutor and a native Minnesotan. Like all Minnesotans, like all Americans who have heard this story, I am deeply distressed by the fraud on the state's social service programs. Most notably in 2022, the Department of Justice indicted 47 people for stealing an estimated $246,000,000 in funds meant to feed children during the COVID-19 pandemic.
As late as 2025, seventy eight people have been indicted as part of the scheme, and 56 have pleaded guilty. More recently, the department has charged over a dozen people for stealing $14,000,000 from a program meant for children with autism, and millions more from a program meant to help disabled Minnesotans maintain stable housing. This is heartbreaking for several reasons. At the most basic level, money meant for the neediest among us, the hungry, the disabled, the destitute, was stolen. I fear that skepticism of Minnesota's social safety net, one of the things that makes the state great, will grow, and it will be harder to fund these programs in the future.
And I fear that the actions of a few people will be used to demonize an entire population of Somali and East African Minnesotans who overwhelmingly have made the state more vibrant, more diverse, and more prosperous. I also feared the selective interest in fraud in America because at the same time that these crimes are rightly being investigated by state and federal authorities, the larger infrastructure for prosecuting fraud and white collar crime is being dismantled. Let me give you a few examples. In February 2025, the Department of Justice paused enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which prohibits foreign bribery, and criminal violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which, as the name suggests, prohibits acting as a secret agent of a foreign power. Between February and April, the department disbanded its Klepto capture task force, which enforced sanctions against Russian oligarchs and the national cryptocurrency enforcement team.
And last year, the department forced out most of the lawyers of the public integrity section, which prosecutes crimes by government officials, announced plans to dismantle the tax division, which prosecutes tax evasion, and shuttered the FBI task force that investigated congressional misconduct. More than just dismantling infrastructure for pursuing violations of the law, the government is, for favored defendants, appearing to enable it. In 2024, the Justice Department indicted Andrew Wiederhorn, the CEO of a casual fast food chain, for allegedly stealing $47,000,000 from his own company. After his business donated $100,000 to the Trump's inaugural committee, his case was dropped, and the line level prosecutor on his case was fired. In 2021, the department sued Boeing for deceiving the government about the software that caused two plane crashes, killing 346 people.
After donating $1,000,000 to the inaugural committee, Boeing negotiated a favorable deferred prosecution agreement that the judge overseeing the case said, quote, fails to secure the necessary accountability to ensure the safety of the flying public, but he felt compelled by the president to accept it nevertheless. The examples continue. Banks that contributed to the inaugural committee had litigations against them for violating consumer financial protection laws dropped, and so too did cryptocurrency companies that were investigated and sued by the Securities and Exchange Commission and that contributed to the inaugural committee. Crucially, those crypto companies that did not donate to the committee or other affiliated entities remain defendants of the government. The scale of these frauds involves millions stolen and hundreds killed, and yet they have received a fraction of the attention of the fraud that happened in Minnesota.
This concerns me because we are both dismantling our infrastructure for fighting fraud and providing a road map for how those fraudsters who are prosecuted can buy their way out of justice. Well, we need to pursue the fraud we're seeing in Minnesota's social safety programs, for all the reasons I said. Because it is the weakest among us who are being harmed. We cannot selectively show interest in fraud. If we do, we put some people, the very powerful and the very rich, beyond the reach of the law.
Thank you.
Speaker 1
Thank you all for your opening statements. We'll now begin the questioning portion of the hearing, and our chair recognizes mister Gill from Texas for the first question.
Speaker 8
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing so expeditiously. We all know this is an important issue, not just in terms of welfare fraud, but also in immigration more broadly. So we appreciate it, and thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to come here. I wanna start with you, Mr. Valu.
Again, thank you for being here. Yes. Who does large scale Somali immigration make Minnesota stronger or weaker?
Speaker 8
Certainly stronger. Do you know what percentage of Somali-headed households in Minnesota are on food stamps? No. 54%. Do you know what that number is for native Minnesota-headed households?
Speaker 8
Let me move on. We've got a lot of questions here. What percentage of Somali-headed households in Minnesota are on Medicaid?
Speaker 8
But the majority number is 18%. That's quite an astounding difference. Think we would agree.
Speaker 8
Let me ask you one more, and then we can go on to that. What percentage of Somali-headed households are on welfare in general?
Speaker 8
It's 81%. What about, let me just ask you. After ten years of being in the United States, what percentage of Somali immigrant households continue to be on welfare?
Speaker 8
The number is 78%. So even after ten years, 78% of Somali immigrant households continue to be on welfare. Do you know what that number is for native Minnesota-headed households?
Speaker 7
If I can just answer the question. Go for you're using the phrase native Minnesotans. The majority of Somali Minnesotans are as Minnesota as any of us. They were born in the United States. It's only 8,000 of the 108,000 Somalis.
Speaker 8
And never nevertheless, the welfare usage is astoundingly different. Let me ask you again. Does that make Minnesota stronger or weaker?
Speaker 7
So, again, the majority of Somali and Minnesotans are born in the United States, as I understand it.
Speaker 8
Okay. What percentage of working age Somalians who have been in the US for ten years or more, how many of them speak English very well?
Speaker 8
to sound like something that makes our country stronger to me, and I think most Americans would agree with me on that. I would need to move on. Miss Robbins, when would you say we concretely knew that widespread welfare fraud was occurring in Minnesota?
Speaker 4
There have been reports since 2009 from the office of the legislative auditor. I would say the credible reports on childcare fraud started surfacing 2011 to 2013.
Speaker 4
From the very beginning. He was running for governor in 2018 when there were prosecutions going on, when there was an OLA report, active cases in the news all the time.
Speaker 4
They actually did nothing when they got into office, and Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan had been on the committee in the legislature that had hearings on child care fraud. And when they got into office, they did put $5,000,000 into a little more money, but nothing changed.
Speaker 8
But nothing. And let me ask you, mister Hudson. Thank you for being here. Did those who commit this fraud, do they typically vote for Republicans or Democrats in your opinion?
Speaker 5
In my opinion, thank you for qualifying like that. I would say they most definitely, overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.
Speaker 8
Got it. And so would you say this is, the Somali population is an important demographic for Democrats to win over politically?
Speaker 8
You think it would have hurt Democrats' political standing with the Somali population to investigate this fraud?
Speaker 8
Got it. So, in other words, you're saying that there was a political incentive to cover up widespread Somali fraud. Is that right?
Speaker 8
Let me ask all three of you. Did the Walt administration and Democrats intentionally, in your opinion, overlook this fraud while it was happening for political gain? I'll start with you, Miss Robbins.
Speaker 4
Absolutely. We have credible whistleblower reports that the Department of Human Services administration, up to the OIG and the commissioner, met with a group called the Minnesota Minority Child Care Association multiple times and that they were trying to weaken protections. We wanted right. We had several changes we wanted to do, they opposed all of them.
Speaker 2
Thank you. I just wanna clarify one thing. I just wanna be very clear that a vast majority of those Somali Minnesotans are United States citizens, and Somali Americans have as much right to access those services as any Somalis as United States members of congress. They have the same right to access services, and we're talking about US citizens. Let me also just clarify, Mr. Hudson.
You said in your opening remarks that I had said that no fraud exists, and I think you can feel free to run the tape. It's not exactly what I said. What I have been talking about, what's important for us to remember, is that wherever fraud exists, we should take it on, and we should hold folks accountable. And when people commit fraud and people get hurt, there's gonna be repercussions, as there should be. We can all agree to that.
We wanna hold fraudsters accountable. We wanna protect the victims, innocent people, so those that can access services can continue to access services across this country. That's how it should work. But we also know that's not how it should work, according to President Trump. Now let's actually talk about real fraud and some fraudsters.
Now we all know that recently, here in Florida, President Trump granted a get out of jail free pardon to Philip S. Forbes. Now, mister S. Forbes is a nursing home mogul convicted of schemes to defraud Medicare and Medicaid of $1,300,000,000. Where is the hearing?
This guy just didn't steal from the taxpayers. He took advantage of thousands of people, admitting them to nursing homes and living facilities that could not help them. His network of doctors gave out dangerous and harmful treatments and prescribed opioids to drug addicts just to make more money. In 2019, when s warrants was sentenced, Trump's own DOJ issued a press release that quoted that the man behind one of the biggest health care frauds in history will be spending 20 years in prison. Twenty years in prison, the DOJ said.
Just 14 months later, Donald Trump let him walk free with a pardon. In October, on his 50th birthday, S Forbes was arrested on domestic violence charges. Let's look at another case, another Trump case. Joseph Schwartz was sentenced for taking advantage of nursing home residents and workers and defrauding the government of $38,000,000. Where is the hearing?
Schwartz paid lobbyists almost 1,000,000 to secure a pardon from the president, and it worked. In November, a full and unconditional pardon was granted by President Trump for this enormous amount of fraud. Now let's look at Paul Wallzac, a tax cheat whose crimes cost taxpayers almost $1,100,000,000, dwarfing what we're talking about today, as he made lavish purchases like a $1,000,000 luxury yacht. Now mister Waldeck was supposed to spend 18 months in prison, a fraudster who we wanna go after. He should've been held accountable for his crimes, and he was supposed to pay 4,400,000.0 back to the taxpayers.
While this part and application was pending, his mom was invited to a $1,000,000 per person candlelight dinner at Mar-a-Lago with President Trump. She attended, and less than 3 weeks later, her son received a full and unconditional pardon. Now I'm assuming that our witnesses here today would think this is horrific fraud and would disagree with these pardons. I'd like to just do you agree with this pardon? I'd like to begin with our witnesses.
Speaker 4
Sir, I have not looked at the facts of the case or the law, so I cannot make a statement on that.
Speaker 2
So you can't make a statement on these parties. Haven't read anything about them in the news, apparently. These are pardons to criminals and fraudsters that our witnesses clearly have no interest in. Now in Trump's America, rich people can rip innocent people off whenever they want and get a pardon. And the answer to fraud here is to cut off benefits to innocent people.
Most of these folks are innocent people and kids who just need their services. Donald Trump's decision to freeze 10,000,000,000 in social services funding to five states does not hold criminals accountable. It hurts the very people who are harmed by fraud in the first place. Mister Ballou, just finally, you are from Minnesota yourself. How are Minnesotans on the ground being hurt by Trump's political retribution crusade?
Speaker 7
Well, the practical effect is that the pause on payments for child care services and Medicaid services is gonna result in hundreds of thousands of the neediest Minnesotans being denied, in some cases, literally lifesaving payments.
Speaker 2
And, also, as we've been discussing here, there is a large, of course, immigrant community, the community that makes Minnesota stronger. Can you tell us how innocent people in the Somali community are being directly harmed?
Speaker 7
Well, you hear about the threats that are happening against the Somali community. You're hearing about the broad demonization that's happening against them in the media generally. I think, you know, just I know we're running out of time here, but, you know, if you look at the statistics, I believe 82 Somali Americans have been indicted so far. Out of 108,000 Somali Minnesotans in the state overall, that's something like a 0.07% criminal rate. You know, when you compare that to one third of all Americans who have a criminal record, and I think it's 40 percent or approximately of white men under the age 23 have been arrested.
I don't think the statistics really compare.
Speaker 1
Without objection, House Majority Whip Emmer, Representatives Finstad, Fishback, and Stauber of Minnesota are waived on the committee for purpose of questioning the witnesses at today's hearing. Without objections or orders.
Speaker 1
I was gonna recognize the WIP, but what, if you have a motion or state your
Speaker 10
I'd like to make a motion to subpoena Neville Singham, a US billionaire with reported ties to the CCP that's been funding extremist organizations fueling division and civil unrest in this country, especially regarding the ICE rights last summer. As well as, I'd like to make a motion to subpoena the ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt first, stifling free speech by listing the phrase America versus hate speech and Turning Point USA as a hate group.
Speaker 1
A motion has been made. The committee will hold this motion in abeyance until the end of the committee hearing. The committee will now proceed with today's session. Point on a point
Speaker 11
Of water, Mister Chairman. Will we get a written copy of that? Because that was a lot to go through.
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah. We'll make work with representative Luna and get a copy. Thank you. Alright.
Chair now recognizes a majority whip from Minnesota. Mister Emmer.
Speaker 12
Thank you, chairman Comer, for holding this important hearing. As I said on Monday, good riddance to Governor Walls, but he cannot escape accountability for the estimated $9,000,000,000 in fraud. How did this happen? And where the hell has the Twin Cities media been? The Star Tribune is complicit.
They have had this story for years, if you just heard, and they've refused to report anything on it. In fact, they continue to try to cover up. Our Minnesota Republican colleagues have demanded answers and accountability for years, but have seen nothing from Walls, his administration, our Democrat colleagues like Tina Smith, Amy Klobuchar, Ilhan Omar, and Angie Craig, or the worthless Star Tribune. Thank god for President Donald J. Trump for finally bringing attention to this issue. Representative Rarek, I'm gonna begin with you.
You've been working on this issue for years. You've spoken to the whistleblower personally. Is that correct?
Speaker 12
You have an understanding that 1,000 whistleblowers running an account on X have come forward to expose fraud in Minnesota state agencies, and they have been entirely ignored by Tim Walls and have even been retaliated against. Is that accurate?
Speaker 12
Well, in your experience, are their claims credible, or are they politically motivated against Walls?
Speaker 12
Can you quickly give us one example of the retaliation these folks have been facing?
Speaker 6
Yes. I can. In my opening statement, I mentioned that the most severe ones was that they would be fired with cause, so they couldn't have unemployment insurance, that they would be blacklisted from all state agencies. And I would bet that it's also Hennepin County and Ramsey County. As you know, those are Democrat run, and much, much more.
Speaker 12
Based on what you've learned, representative, over the last several years, do you have any doubt that Governor Tim Walls knew about this fraud as it was occurring?
Speaker 12
Thank you. The housing stability services program was estimated to cost about 2,600,000.0 per year. But before it was shut down last October, it was on track to run about 122,000,000 in 02/25. In fact, I think they sucked 161,000,000 out of it from the point it started in 2020 until it was finally shut down. Isn't that correct?
Speaker 12
Yeah. The Quality Learning Center, as uncovered by Nick Shirley, received almost 10,000,000 in funding. Is that accurate?
Speaker 12
There are more than 80 autism centers in Minnesota under investigation. Is that true?
Speaker 12
It's clear that someone is criminally complicit. You can't just let this amount of money get out of your administration over a period of 7 years without knowing. There was a hearing in the state regarding the fraudulent housing stabilization program, but before that hearing, Governor Walls fired the official who was slated to testify so that they could not testify and expose what was happening under Governor Walls' watch. Has Governor Walls or Attorney General Ellison fired anyone else to your knowledge, Representative?
Speaker 6
Not to my knowledge. And that was Eric Rumdal, and his administration believes that he was not fired. But I say he was fired because it was too convenient.
Speaker 12
Right. Representative Hudson, is it true that 90% of the individuals charged, regardless of what your colleague on the panel just said with his facts and figures, 90% of the individuals charged or indicted with the $250,000,000 feeding our future COVID fraud are of Somali descent?
Speaker 12
Are you aware that in a 2021 video, Mister Ellison promised that he would obstruct his own agencies in their investigation of Somali fraud?
Speaker 12
It's no wonder that criminals in the Somali community felt they were free to steal taxpayer dollars. I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked Marion. Do you have any doubt that Tim Walls knew about this fraud as it was occurring? None whatsoever. Walls and Ellison were protecting fraudsters instead of investigating them, and it was purposeful.
And it's no coincidence that this is occurring largely in the Somali community. Walls made Minnesota a sanctuary state. He gave free health care, free college, and free licenses to illegals. And Walls looked the other way when Somali immigrants were stealing. Representative Robbins, do you have any doubt that Tim Walls knew about this fraud as it was occurring?
Speaker 12
So all three of you have no doubt in your minds that Tim Walls knew about the 9,000,000,000 fraud during his tenure as governor and did nothing about it. It looks like my time is about to expire. I do wanna say to all of you, on behalf of Minnesota, thank you for being here, and justice will be served. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 1
Thank you, Mr. Twipp. Chair now recognizes Miss Norton from Washington DC.
Speaker 13
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Federal assistance programs are vital for keeping working families afloat and children healthy. Nearly 25% of adults and nearly 50% of children rely on federal assistance, including child care funding, Medicaid, the children's health insurance program, and the supplemental nutrition assistance program. Fraudsters targeting government programs have had a uniquely harmful impact on Americans. They deprive taxpayers of efficient use of their funds, deprive intended recipients, and sometimes the most vulnerable groups in our society of the services and assistance they are eligible for, and they reduce public trust in government.
But answers to fraud is not to freeze critical assistance, critical safety net programs, and cause more suffering for Americans who are already struggling to afford everyday expenses. I have worked with my colleagues on the government operations subcommittee, on ways that federal agencies can identify and prevent fraud before payments are made. My Oversight Committee Democrat colleagues and I are also proud cosponsors of the congressional men's taxpayer funds oversight accountability act. This legislation would strengthen the ability of federal agencies to reliably track federal funds, enabling more efficient analysis to identify and stop fraudsters. We can continue to reduce fraud and protect funding from bad actors by empowering oversight bodies like inspectors general and the government accountability office, which are often best equipped to investigate red flags and sound the alarm when there are problems to address.
Applying additional safeguards requires a balanced approach that does not pull the rug out from under people, including children who rely on help these programs provide. Congress must not allow partisan actors to seize on the misdeeds of a few in order to gut the vital programs that provide access to federal health care and special health education services, keep American children fed, and keep American parents to work with the knowledge that their children are safe. Now yield back.
Speaker 14
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mister Hudson, who is Salim Saeed and Amy Bach?
Speaker 14
Okay. I wanna go back because earlier with mister Gil, you said they that they overlooked the fraud. I think it's worse than that. I think they helped it along. I'm gonna go to this meeting that took place, or, actually, I'm gonna go to 3/30/2021.
Is it true that back in March 2021, the Minnesota Department of Education suspended payments to Feeding Our Future, that program? Is that right?
Speaker 5
In my opinion, what caused them to change their mind was pushback from their constituency within the Somali community who accused the state agencies of being racist.
Speaker 14
But what caused them to stop it in the first place? Was it whistleblowers coming forward? Was it like this? Something's not right here. What happened?
Speaker 5
Apologize for the misunderstanding. The reason they stopped the funds in the first place is that they had credible allegations that there was fraud taking place.
Speaker 14
From whistleblowers and others. And just doing their job, looking, this doesn't make sense. We got all these programs. No one's getting fed, yet money's going out the door like crazy. So they suspended it, and then they started to back up.
Right? Was there any threat of a lawsuit from the Somali community, and folks affiliated with Feeding Our Future?
Speaker 14
The court. They played the race card. All this fraud going on, money going out, and they played the race card. Now it was, when I talked about not just overlooking it, there was a meeting that took place between the attorney general and affiliates of Feeding Our Future. Is that right?
Speaker 5
Yeah. We do, because we have it on tape. There was an audio recording made at that meeting that was entered into evidence in the Feeding Our Future trial, and it was later revealed, through work from Center of the American Experiments, the full recording. And my observations of what took place in that meeting was that attorney general Keith Ellison was focused on one thing and one thing only, and that was keeping these folks in business. There were no questions that he asked of these folks about how the kids are doing, the operation, how they're getting fed, who is being helped.
Instead, the focus was entirely on ensuring that the money continues to flow. And I'll add that he went so far as to say that he was going to fight these people, in reference to the state agencies. The state agencies are his clients.
Speaker 14
Yeah. And when you said money's gonna flow, did money flow to Mr. Ellison's campaign a couple weeks later from some of the folks who were in that meeting?
Speaker 14
So it wasn't just overlooking the fraud. They were actively trying to make sure this program continued, and then they benefited from that politically with contribution to their campaign, all in this same year, all in 2021 when this was all coming to a head. Is that accurate?
Speaker 14
And this fraud is much bigger than this because as I look, it is just about six different federal agencies. Department of Homeland Security, HEA, Health and Human Services, Small Business Association, Housing, Urban Development, Department of Labor, Department of Agriculture, and this program and a bunch of others. They were shaking down the entire federal government, it looked like. Six different federal agencies over, I think you pointed out, over the last 15 years.
Speaker 14
And not only is the administration, the Democrat administration overlooking it, they're helping it along. They're assisting it. They're going after whistleblowers, as your colleague pointed out, and they're benefiting from all this politically with contribution to their campaign, not to mention the voting issue that you referenced earlier as well. Is that all accurate?
Speaker 14
Oh, now there's more than 6 agencies involved. There's 6 federal agencies that got taken down, but there's 2 other agencies involved now, the FBI and the DOJ. Right? How many people have been indicted now?
Speaker 14
And the hit how I don't know how long y'all been in the legislature. We appreciate your work, appreciate what you do. Have you ever seen anything like this in your time? I've never seen anything like this in an ATM. Miss Robbins, you're the chair.
Speaker 4
No, sir. We have never seen anything on this scale. It is unbelievable. As Joe Thompson said, it is breathtaking and cannot be overstated.
Speaker 14
Yeah. Well, god bless you all, miss Franklin miss Rarek. Excuse me. I'll give you the last word.
Speaker 6
Thank you. So I've been there since 2013, and I have been yelled at by Democrats over and over again throughout our time there to say that there is no fraud. This is just made up.
Speaker 14
Yeah. This is the template. You see this all the time. The left will tell a lie. We're feeding kids when they're not, when they're just shaking down the taxpayer.
The left will tell a lie. The media will report the lie or not report it when the truth comes out. And then, when you tell the truth, they call you racist. It's as old as time. We see it all the time.
This is so wrong. God bless you all for coming forward and getting the facts to the people in Minnesota, and, more importantly, to the people of this great country. I yield back.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen, yields back. Chair recognizes Mr. Lynch from Massachusetts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 11
I wanna be clear that fraud is unacceptable at any level. However, I did have an opportunity to spend the day with a bunch of my kids in my district at my local Head Start center in Quincy and the Wahlberg Center. And they are actually able to feed those kids breakfast, lunch, a snack for $6 a day. And I just wanna say from this committee, this investigative committee, if we're really looking for fraud, if we're truly looking for fraud, in addition to all the cases that mister Baloo listed, we don't need to go far. I can even suggest the address 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
If we're looking for fraud in this country, that's a great place to start. That's a gold mine for looking for fraud. And I'll just give one example. You know, you don't have to go back in time very far to see a great example of the fraud that's been put upon this country. Last month, President Trump put his name on the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.
For those of you who are too young to remember, JFK was a war hero from my state. He was an Irish Catholic, first Catholic elected president. Fought a lot of bigotry during his time trying to become president. He actually stood up to the Russians, but he was a war hero, a decorated war hero. He's the only United States presence who ever has received the Purple Heart.
He also received the Medal of Valor from the Navy and the Marine Corps because during World War two, he was commanding a PT boat, PT 109. His vessel was struck by a destroyer in the South Pacific, and he actually risked his life to save his crew members. And after he was assassinated, LBJ, Linda Baines Johnson, his successor, and the United States Congress at that time recognized his service and sacrifice to this country by naming the performing arts center after.
Speaker 11
He had raised most of the money to build that center, he and Jacqueline Kennedy. And it is shameful. It is a case of stolen valor for this president to put his name above the name of John F. Kennedy. That is a fraud being perpetrated on this country right now. And if we're really interested in rooting out fraud, how about starting right there?
I have legislation that will take Trump's name off that building and restore it. You know, congress acknowledged Kennedy's service and sacrifice to our country. He sacrificed everything for this country. And yet we have allowed this to happen, and we have allowed that fraud, that valor to be stolen from John F. Kennedy. It's wrong.
It is wrong. And while I know Trump has his supporters and his minions, and there is no depth to the shame that they will stoop to. But we as Americans should defend the history, defend the goodness that has been done by previous leaders. It's ironic that Jacqueline Kennedy actually established the White House Historical Society, and she did so in a manner that she said we should honor every president within the White House regardless of party, but because of the service and the sacrifice that they have made on behalf of our country. That's a much different sentiment than that is held at the White House today when you see the shameful plaques that are being put up by this president denigrating previous presidents and their service to this country.
So I hope my colleagues will join me in that legislation to restore the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and eliminate this fraud, glaring fraud that's being perpetrated on the American people. Mister chairman, I yield back.
Speaker 15
Thank you, chairman. Before we begin, I have a letter to submit for the record titled collective request for congressional oversight, systematic retaliation, and governance failure at the Minnesota Department of Human Services. Chairman, this letter was written by the whistleblowers and has been provided to the committee. I wanna submit that for the record.
Speaker 15
Miss Rarek, first of all, thank you for your service to the state of Minnesota. I wanna refer back to your commentary about a meeting where the lieutenant governor of the state of Minnesota, Lieutenant Governor Flanagan, came and admonished these whistleblowers. Can you go into more detail about what was said in this meeting?
Speaker 6
Thank you, Mr. Congressman. So I don't have any more detail other than what I read into the record. Unfortunately, it was obviously a public meeting, and there were hundreds of DHS employees. So department of human services employees there. It was a story that's been reported multiple times on the x page, but I don't have any more details than that other than the fact that that wasn't the only time she retaliated.
Speaker 15
Do you think that the lieutenant governor was operating outside of the purview of Governor Walls?
Speaker 6
So it's interesting the timing, and it was before he ran as vice president. And so she was almost completely tied at the hip with governor Walls at that time in history.
Speaker 15
I think it's important for people to understand it. In virtually every state in the country, the lieutenant governor is essentially chosen by the governor. And so, lieutenant governors typically do not operate outside of the purview of the governor. It's kind of their job to, you know, play QB2, if you will, to the governor. So would it be clear to state that the lieutenant governor's comments trying to railroad whistleblowers, trying to demean whistleblowers, and discourage whistleblowers was at the directive of Governor Walls?
Speaker 6
You can definitely assume that because, like I said, at that moment in time, up until the point where the governor ran for VP, she was seen at literally every press conference. She was in all the meetings. They were tied at the hip. They were always together. So if she was saying it, he had approved it.
I'm certain of it.
Speaker 15
Well, I guess you could say she's kind of a knucklehead, too. Moving on. The list of programs in the fraud in Minnesota are ramping. You have the child care assistance program. You have the feeding of our future.
You have housing stabilization services. You have the early intensive development and behavioral intervention. You have integrated community supports. Miss Robbins, you're the chair of the investigative committee. The depth of fraud that you have seen, were there controls in place in the state of Minnesota that could have prevented this fraud?
And were these controls ignored by the Walls administration and by the Department of Human Services?
Speaker 4
Absolutely. So we have many whistleblower reports talking about how DHS undermined the ability to strengthen internal controls. So for example, there was an effort for the child care assistance program. They have a clear and convincing evidence standard to disqualify someone from being a provider, where all the other programs are a lower standard, preponderance of the evidence. There was an effort to make this a lower standard so it was easier to disqualify people to a preponderance.
And the Minnesota Minority Child Care Association, which was run by a group of Somali providers, opposed it, and DHS went along with their recommendation. And in a similar vein, we were trying to reduce the number of child care employees with children that could work in these child care centers because that was one of the vectors of fraud. Right. And they opposed that.
Speaker 15
So you had the Somali community who, on purpose, was petitioning the state of Minnesota to lower the standards to be able to make sure that fraud cannot be caught. Is that correct?
Speaker 4
Well, they wanted to keep the standard clear and convincing, which makes it harder to disqualify people.
Speaker 15
It makes it harder for them to be disqualified from wasting taxpayer funds. Is
Speaker 15
Okay. Miss Roberts, I want to stay with you. Wanna talk about the use of funds. You've talked about some of these funds were used to buy property in Kenya.
Speaker 15
Remittances back to Somalia? Yes. I think it's important for the committee to understand that these remittances in part are used in what's called the Hawala. I wanna make sure I have the term right. The Hawala network.
Miss Robbins, can you speak to what the Hawala network is?
Speaker 4
Yes. So it's an informal network where someone brings, goes to a Hawala place in Minneapolis, which is like a money exchange or a money sending site. And they say, I wanna send an amount of dollars. And then there's a receiving site in Somalia, and they put the cash, take the cash out. So money doesn't cross the border.
It's an order for money here that is transmitted to Somalia.
Speaker 15
For the time, because I'm out of time I wanna expound. In Somalia and other parts in the Middle East region writ large, a Hawala network is a bunch of money exchangers hand to hand, not bank account to bank account.
Speaker 15
And what is clear in Somalia and other parts is that Al Shabaab, the largest Al Fida Al Qaida affiliate in Somalia, they have their hands all through this network. So taxpayer money, United States dollars, that are being remitted into Somalia in parts have been utilized or have fallen into the hands of al Shabab. Do you think that's a correct assessment?
Speaker 4
Yes. We have plenty of evidence of that from money directly going to al Shabab, but then also indirectly because they take a cut of whatever gets sent to Somalia.
Speaker 15
Thank you so much, chairman. I know I'm over. Thank you for your additional time.
Speaker 3
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a December 2025 article from the Minnesota Star Tribune titled, contrary to Trump's claims, Somalis add $8,000,000,000 to Minnesota's economy.
Speaker 1
With that objection to the order. Chair recognizes Ro Khanna from California.
Speaker 16
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mister chairman, fraud, waste, and abuse are not a partisan issue. FDR in 1932, with the New Deal, railed against inefficiencies and fraud and waste in state and local government. I wanna be clear. Many in the Democratic Party stand against the misappropriation or misuse of taxpayer dollars.
The reality is, as a progressive democrat, I believe the ultra wealthy should pay more. But I want that money going to the health care, the child care, and the education of the American people. It offends me if there is waste or fraud in any of our states. That's why I called for people in my state of California to share stories of inefficiencies, fraud, or wasteful spending. I partnered with the All In podcast to advertise that we need to be responsible stewards of our tax dollars, and I believe we should be doing this for all 50 states.
I challenge my colleagues on the Republican side. Let's have an audit of all 50 states to make sure that government money is being spent wisely. We don't need to make these partisan hearings. Every American has a stake in making sure that they have a receipt for where their tax dollars are going. Every American has a stake if we're gonna ask them to pay tax to make sure that money isn't being wasted.
And I'd like to see this committee work together to stand up for the basic fairness of the American taxpayers. I certainly am gonna do that in the state of California, and we should be doing that in all 50 states. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 1
Thank you, representative Connor. I believe you're sincere, and we wanna work with you on fraud in any state. If it's a Republican state, Democrat state, we don't care. We, the mission of this committee, is to root out waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement, and we would gladly work with you.
Speaker 18
a UC request. Proceed. Thank you. First one is Arizona has recovered just five percent of taxpayer dollars lost in a $2,500,000,000 Medicaid fraud scheme without objections ordered, and I'll save the rest for the future. No.
I'm gonna, I've got a bunch more.
Speaker 1
Shaw. Okay. Alright. Thank you. Thank you.
I'll chair recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Yesterday, Minnesota's Office of the Legislative Auditor published an audit of the state's Department of Human Services Behavioral Health Administration grants. I'd like to enter that report and its cover letter into the record without objection. So ordered. The cover letter of this report states, quote, however, during the course of our audit, we identified a number of documents that the behavioral health administration either backdated or created after our audit happened, end quote. It sounds like governor Tim Waltz's department of human services may have been fabricating evidence by creating documentation after the fact to mislead voters, auditors.
This new report noted that one grantee who received nearly $680,000 from this agency for one month's work but could not provide any documentation or proof that any work was actually completed. What's more? And this is the kicker. The report notes that the grant manager who approved this money left the agency within days of approving the grant to take a job with the very same grantee that they approved money for. So very quickly, Representative Roberts, have you ever seen anything like this in your time as a member of Minnesota's fraud prevention and state agency oversight policy committee?
Speaker 4
We have heard whistleblower reports of backdating and falsification before, and we also have a record of earlier in the CCAP, the child care fraud, where they would allow the providers to submit records far after the investigation and accept them as true. So, clearly, this has been a pattern at the agency. It's unacceptable.
Speaker 1
Unbelievable. And we want to work with you. We wanna work with these whistleblowers. We're serious about this. The Trump administration's on the ground.
We wanna catch these people, and we wanna put them behind bars. And we would hold any politician that participated in these schemes accountable. Representative Hudson, who's to blame for this dysfunction?
Speaker 5
Well, the blame can go around quite a bit, but as Tim Walls himself said, the buck stops with him.
Speaker 1
Representative Robbins, do you have any examples of how the Wallace administration blocked investigators from moving forward with high priority fraud and get investigations?
Speaker 4
Yes. We do, Mr. Chairman. I have met with whistleblowers and gotten documents from them about how after the original CCAP whistleblower report came out in March and April 2019, subsequent to that, there was an office of inspector general within DHS that had investigative authority to do surveillance, warrants, and seize electronics, and they were shut down. They were told they could no longer do criminal investigations. They were told they could no longer meet with the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension agents who were assigned to them without supervisors' approval.
And instead, when they found it's one of the other members talked about how they changed the language. They went from calling it fraud to calling it overbilling, and they created an overbilling committee so all the investigative agents now couldn't do criminal investigations, and they had to flag issues of overbilling. And then a committee would decide if any of that overbilling would be recouped.
Speaker 4
Yes. So they shut down criminal investigations. They created a committee to call it overbilling, and decide if overbilling investigations would even try to.
Speaker 1
This evidence that Tim Waltz interfered with investigators who knew there was fraud. The rumors of fraud have been taking place. I've been hearing them for a decade, and yet he interfered to try to obstruct their investigation of fraud.
Speaker 1
Representative Hudson, we didn't get $9,000,000,000 stolen overnight. How did the fraud in Minnesota become so widespread?
Speaker 5
Well, listen. Let me give the maximum benefit of the doubt that these programs were designed with a beneficial legislative intent.
Speaker 5
course. The way that it happened was by when people recognized that the system wasn't working and they raised those concerns, those concerns were ignored. And a culture suppressing, raising those concerns, was fostered by the Walls administration.
Speaker 1
So, obviously, there was a lack of oversight by the Wallace administration. Why would Governor Wallace let $9,000,000,000 in fraud occur, Mister Hudson?
Speaker 5
In my opinion, because it was politically beneficial to the Democrats. Again, the Somali community is a huge constituency group, and we've had some tight races in Minnesota, and it makes a difference for them.
Speaker 1
Because it's a huge part of the Democratic voting base in Minnesota. Is that correct?
Speaker 1
Representative Eric, Governor Waltz's announcement not to seek a third term seems to be an admission of guilt, I think, to most Americans. And an attempt by the Democrat establishment to cover up his role in the rampant fraud, he claims this is so he can focus on defending the people of Minnesota against criminals who prey on our generosity. As someone who has been in the Minnesota legislature longer than Tim Waltz has been governor, can governor Waltz actually be trusted to defend Minnesotans when he allowed fraud to fester for his entire tenure as governor?
Speaker 6
Mister chairman, if Governor Waltz was serious about stopping fraud, he would have done it in 2019 when he took office. He has done nothing other than appoint commissioners that suppressed fraud and retaliated against their own employees.
Speaker 1
And just think, this man was almost elected vice president of the United States. This was the pick for the sitting vice president of the United States to be the next vice president of the United States. This is unbelievable. If people aren't held accountable, if people don't go to jail for this, this will continue, not just in Minnesota, but in other states. And we're gonna do everything we can on this committee to work with you all and every whistleblower in Minnesota and any other of the 49 states who wants to come forward to expose wage fraud abuse.
We're gonna work with you and eliminate it, and hold people accountable. Chair now recognizes Mr. Infume. Is that right?
Speaker 21
First one is from the American Immigration Council. Immigrants contribute billions to federal and state taxes each year, as well as immigrants do not commit more crimes in the US despite fear mongering.
Speaker 1
Without objection, ordered. Chair, now I recognize this Mr. Infume from Maryland.
Speaker 22
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I wanna thank you and the ranking member for bringing us together. On this today, I have a request for unanimous consent to enter into the record. A letter from James Clark, the inspector general of the Minnesota Department of Human Services, directed to the Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Committee of the House of Representatives in Minnesota, requesting information on the alleged 700 tips that have been received. I'd like to enter that with unanimous consent, mister.
Speaker 22
Know we're up against the clock. Many of us are trying to get to the special briefings on the action that has taken place in Venezuela, and so we are leaving one by one. I do wanna try to get a couple of things in before I have to depart also. I wanna thank you again. As ranking member of this committee's subcommittee on government operations, it has been my focus to combat waste, fraud, and abuse within the federal government for the last 3 and a half years.
Regardless of what side you're on, what side of the aisle, or what you believe, as has been stated, everybody should be against fraud. It requires our collective attention to address the issue and to minimize the consequences that we are seeing, that are taking place. Not minimize the consequences to the perpetrators, but minimize the hurt to the taxpayers in this country. As a ranking member of that committee, we have committed ourselves to fight this full and necessary issue again. And I believe that from most of the people I've heard, we all are concurrent that stealing from taxpayers is the wrong thing, period.
Now the distinguished gentleman from Texas, Mister Sessions and I, who was the chairman of that subcommittee, have been working together on a bipartisan basis to create a congressional scorecard to assess the progress of key government spending programs in reducing fraud and improper payments both through the federal government and through states. Additionally, through the American Rescue Act plan, Congress has provided funding for PRAC as well as the Pandemic Analytics Center of Excellence to deter, detect, and prevent fraud across multiple state agencies and multiple federal agencies. I've also co-led several bills here in the house that address that type of fraud. Congress should defend these programs that seek to find a way to root out this problem, and we need to do that in a bipartisan, non-partisan way. The council of inspector generals for integrity and efficiency, in their report a year and a half ago to the congress and to the president, found that every dollar spent on the office of inspectors general, as a result, $26 was saved for everyone that was spent.
Now that's a return on investment that taxpayers deserve, and, unfortunately, the Trump administration illegally defunded CIGIE last year. And I've joined with my colleagues, several of whom are on this committee, in leading several letters to oppose that unlawful set of firings of inspector generals. I urge this administration again and my colleagues to restore the congressionally designated funding to CIGIE and the offices of inspectors general so that we might be able to continue the work necessary to combat waste, fraud, and abuse. Before I yield, I wanna thank Mister O'Connor for his comments, that this issue should be nonpartisan. That when we make it something other than that, we take away from our ability to bring about change, and we, in some sort of way, chip away at the belief that the public has that we are really serious about doing something here.
So it was concerning to me also to have heard some of the xenophobia that began earlier in this hearing, Mr. Chairman. Differences. Differences versus similarities. And when we do that, we create the problems that we always are trying to do away with. Asking witnesses to give their opinion of Somalis as a general group of Americans.
Asking witnesses their opinion. Do you think they vote for Democrats? Do you think they just give money to the Democrats? Asking their opinion, what is your opinion of Somalis? What is your, we might as well say, what is your opinion of Jews?
What is your opinion of black people? What is your opinion of Latinos? That sort of thing, although it may sound good and play to the issue, creates a slippery slope. I wanna caution people, a slippery slope. We heard earlier that of over 100,000 Somalis in this country, 87 were indicted in Minnesota.
That comes out to 0.87%. Those sort of things create, I think, the disbelief that a lot of people have that we're about doing the business that we ought to do, and it gets back to the point that the gentleman from California raised that we've got to find a way to keep this from being partisan and to keep it from being subjective. I would yield back, Mr. Chair.
Speaker 1
Jim, you're fact can I recognize Mister Biggs before I go to Mister Crane? Mister Biggs, you have a UC?
Speaker 18
Yes. Yes, sir. First one is Tim Waltz claims he fired people amid fraud scandals, but won't name names. Next one, Waltz appointees failed to stop rampant Minnesota fraud. Next one, exclusive DHS insider claims systemic issues in addressing fraud.
Next one. Here's what the Trump administration is doing to crush Minnesota's fraud epidemic. Next one. Minnesota fraud committee chair claims Walt's turned a blind eye to fraud warnings for years, and I'll yield back.
Speaker 1
Without objections to order, chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona, mister Crane, for five minutes.
Speaker 23
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Grateful to have elected officials from Minnesota here today who can provide more intimate information regarding this mind-blowing fraud coming from the Somali community in Minnesota. According to assistant US attorney Joe Thompson, there is an estimated 9,000,000,000 or more in fraud. Many obviously believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg. I wanna thank and acknowledge the independent reporters, Nick Shirley and Dave Hawk, who broke this story wide open.
Today, I'm introducing a bill to award Nick Shirley with the Congressional Medal for his explosive work in exposing astronomical fraud in Minnesota. And the reason I'm doing this is because the American people are sick and tired of this, and they're sick and tired of mainstream media not covering any of it. The biggest question that most Americans, however, have is this. Is this incompetence at the executive level with the governor and the attorney general? Are they involved and complicit?
I'm gonna start with you, Miss Robbins.
Speaker 4
Thank you, sir. My understanding is that they were certainly aware of the fraud, and they did nothing to stop it. And there were plenty of opportunities, and their commissioners and their agencies also undermined efforts to tighten internal controls.
Speaker 23
And according to Miss Rarek, I believe you said that they were actually going after whistleblowers to suppress the expose of this fraud. Is that correct?
Speaker 23
Thank you. One thing that is so alarming is the reporting that many of these fraudulent companies are then donating the stolen money back to the same Democrats that are protecting them and advocating for these very programs. Is that correct, mister Hudson?
Speaker 23
Well, we just had one of my Democrat colleagues say these are just opinions. You know? Are these guys donating money back to Democrats?
Speaker 23
are. I'd like to enter into the record, mister chairman, an article from Bright Barton News saying, with the title being database, searches show Somali fraudsters funding democrat politicians. So these aren't opinions. Without objection. Reporting on this.
Are you guys aware? You guys are elected officials in Minnesota. Right? Are you guys aware of the reporting that some of the stolen money is getting funneled back to the Islamic terror group Al Shabab in Somalia? Mr. Robbins.
Speaker 4
Yes, sir. And we have evidence of it going back as far as 2012, where a man was convicted of sending 21,000 to Al Shabab. In 2011, two Minnesota women were convicted of sending money to different groups. Someone else, we have multiple references of how al Shabab takes a cut when the money gets to Somalia through the Huala network. So I think there's ample evidence on this and federal convictions.
Speaker 23
Yeah. That's outrageous. Obviously, one of the biggest reasons so many Americans are outright outraged by this massive exposure is because we generously and often foolishly allow immigrants and people into our country, and then they rob the American people blind while our debt skyrockets and the American people struggle to make ends meet. What do you guys, are you guys hearing from your constituents the same outrage that I'm hearing from mine about this issue?
Speaker 4
Minnesotans are fed up. Everywhere I go in the state, Minnesotans are so frustrated. As I said in my opening remarks, we are a highly taxed state, and they are angry that this much of their money, $9,000,000,000, is being absconded by criminals.
Speaker 23
Mister Hudson, are you just hearing from Republicans on this, or are Democrat constituents like, oh my God? I'm struggling to put my kids in school, struggling to make ends meet, and my tax dollars are being robbed by people. And then they're sending it all over the place. And this is complete fraud. What is going on, and why hasn't anything been done about it?
Speaker 5
I'll give you a personal example. So my family, my in-laws in particular, are politically diverse. A lot of them vote for Democrats, and they're fairly apolitical. They're not like me, all plugged in. And so I kinda use them as a bellwether for what the people are thinking.
Across the board, everybody is upset about this fraud.
Speaker 23
And I'm guessing when you guys bring this up, whether it's to the Waltz administration, whether it's to the AG, the number one thing that comes back at you is you're a racist, you're white supremacist, or you're an Islamophobe. As we've seen governor Waltz now trying to answer for these questions, he's doing it at the national level. Are you guys, do you guys hear the same thing at the state level as well?
Speaker 5
Yes. Absolutely. They always pivot to the divisive. As I stated in my opening statement, it's diversion. Right?
We're gonna talk about personalities. We're gonna talk about partisan politics. We're gonna find some way to get people yelling at each other, rather than looking at the problem.
Speaker 23
Or like you've heard my colleagues do on this panel, it's Donald Trump, baby. Yep. It's all about Donald Trump. Right? The old pivot.
We're not gonna talk about what's going on in Somalia and we're not gonna talk about what's going on in Minnesota with this massive fraud scanner. We're gonna talk about Donald Trump. With my remaining seconds, can we play the video I have, Mr. Chairman? Or did we run out of time?
Speaker 1
We did run out of time, but can we put that in the record with that? Can we thank you. The
Speaker 1
I held up. Okay. Thank you, Representative Crane. Yields back. Chair recognizes Ms. Stansbury from New Mexico.
Speaker 24
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and happy New Year. Welcome to our guests. Thank you to our legislators for being here today, and to our guests. Thank you. You know, I I'm always I come to these committee hearings.
I'm ready to debate the topics. I'm grateful that you're bringing this case to our attention. Yes. We need to prosecute these crimes, period. Let's do that.
And I'm also grateful to see that this committee is actually conducting a hearing that is in its jurisdiction, its oversight over government fraud. But I do have to say to my colleague's point that was just made that I am surprised to see the focus given that the president of the United States and the administration are engaged in fraudulent behavior literally daily, including just a few days ago invading a foreign country using the United States military to take their oil and notifying oil and gas companies before the United States Congress. And the president claiming last night that he is personally going to control the oil and give the government kickbacks to oil and gas companies. So why are we not investigating that? It definitely gives you the impression that there's a double standard in this country.
I also wanna say that I'm troubled to see that this hearing is being held in conjunction with an announcement that the administration made just yesterday that they were going to freeze $10,000,000,000 in federal funding for childcare and family assistance to 5 states across the country. And if you watch the president's crazy address yesterday, you heard him say it himself. But I wanna say one thing, because my colleagues have pointed out all about weaponizing the government for political purposes. Well, these five states happen to have one thing in common. They all have democratic governors and gubernatorial elections this year.
Is this a coincidence? I don't think so, my friends. And this, of course, comes after weeks of viral videos from a young man YouTuber who was literally creeping around daycares by himself, making claims about fraud that were not there. And then the vice president and the FBI director were retweeting these videos without even verifying if they were true, unleashing a fear of anti-immigrant and anti-Somali hate across the country, wherein thousands of Somali people got targeted and harassed, including by the president of The United States who literally used his platform as the president of The United States to call an entire community garbage. He literally said that.
So we're not accusing people of being xenophobic and racist. They are being xenophobic and racist, including the president of the United States. And I wanna say for one that I stand with the Somali and the immigrant community standing here today. But there's a bigger policy point here, which is that this is being used as a politically expedient moment to take away the immigration status of Somalis in the United States as part of the mass deportation plan of this administration, and it is also being used by the 2025ers in this administration to freeze critical programs that we know low income families depend on and which they call part of the woke agenda. This is part of a larger effort to defund these programs, as we are seeing across these five states.
So I think it's important to pull back the curtain a little bit about what is actually going on in this hearing and its coordination with the administration, that this is about, one, demonizing political opponents in democratic states during a major election cycle. Two, it's about demonizing the immigrant community to support cruel and illegal mass deportation policies. And three, it's about demonizing poor people and struggling families to justify taking away the basic programs that are helping them survive in this country. So I wanna just close out by saying that I grew up in a low-income family. Many of you have heard my story before.
But as I woke up to the news that the president was freezing childcare funding to these five states, I had to think about the millions of families that would be impacted by it. I think about my own mom, a single mom. She's barely struggling to get by, working multiple jobs. These programs are a lifeline. They make it possible for people like me to ultimately have a pathway to success.
And you all are sitting here running legislation on showerheads, while millions of Americans' health insurance is expiring, while millions of Americans can't even put food on the table right now. And you're over here parading around state officials, demonizing immigrants, talking about cutting basic programs, and you're passing legislation to redefine showerheads in Congress while the president of the United States is illegally invading foreign countries.
Speaker 1
Orders. Ladies' time is expired. Chair recognizes Dr. Fox from North Carolina.
Speaker 18
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have seen requests. First one, HHS freezes childcare payments to Minnesota after massive fraud is alleged. Next one. Minnesota's quality learning center fixes sign at address still misspelled.
Minnesota made it easier to get into the daycare business. Trump's deputies freeze childcare payments to Minnesota amid alleged Somali fraud. Jonathan Turley explains why feds can dig deep into Somali scammer special.
Speaker 8
Got another UC request, an article from City Journal, quote, the largest funder of Al Shabaab is the Minnesota taxpayer.
Speaker 1
Without objections to the order. And I believe, Mister Fallon, you have a request?
Speaker 20
Just mister chairman, I'd like to enter to the record an article by the Center for American Experiment feeding our future Keith Ellison caught on tape.
Speaker 1
Without objection, so ordered. Chair now recognizes Dr. Fox from North Carolina.
Speaker 25
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank our witnesses for being here today. Representative Robbins, when Governor Waltz testified before this committee last June, I reminded him that the fraud involving the nonprofit Feeding Our Future established Minnesota as ground zero for the largest COVID-19 fraud scheme in the nation. Feeding our future took $250,000,000 in federal funds out of the mouths of hungry children, which amounts to $1,600 per child living in poverty in Minnesota. According to the FBI, the 250,000,000 in federal taxpayer money was funneled, quote, into luxury homes, cars, and lavish lifestyles while families struggle, end quote. The FBI stated it, quote, will not allow criminals to rob federal programs and walk away unscathed.
We'll expose their schemes, dismantle their networks, and ensure they face the full weight of justice, end quote. Last June, Governor Wallace assured me that he, quote, wholeheartedly, end quote, supported the federal government's efforts to bring to justice those who stole federal taxpayer money at the expense of hungry children. If he had been true to his word, we would not be sitting here today. However, the committee's back today because the Feeding Our Futures Cam is just the tip of the iceberg of fraud in Minnesota, and perhaps beyond. Representative Robbins, Democrats in your state have tried to dismiss your inquiry into the Feeding Our Future fraud as a partisan political exercise.
Is exposing fraud and theft of taxpayer funds a partisan activity?
Speaker 4
No, ma'am. As I said in our first committee hearing, it is non-partisan. Everyone should want to protect taxpayers and vulnerable citizens.
Speaker 25
And we completely agree. Representative Robbins, did Governor Walts work with you and your committee wholeheartedly to bring justice to those involved in the Feeding Our Future fraud?
Speaker 4
No, ma'am. They have ignored the documents we have provided. We did a hearing in February 2025 on child care fraud that was outlined in the Nick Shirley video, and we gave them a list of 72 child care providers that we were concerned about that got $1 million each or more. And as we saw in the Shirley video last month, they have done nothing about it.
Speaker 25
Representative Hudson, for several years, we've heard about whistleblowers highlighted by some of us in Congress who noted instances of fraud in Minnesota. With this in mind, the recent allegations from Nick Shirley regarding staggering amounts of fraud involving child care centers come as no surprise. What kind of climate did Governor Walsh create for whistleblowers?
Speaker 5
Well, I think he did a really good job of demonstrating for us the kind of climate that he's created yesterday when, in an unhinged rant, he tried to throw deputy US attorney Joe Thompson under the bus, a guy who's been doing this for, believe, 16 years. If he's willing to throw a deputy US attorney under the bus, what do you think he's gonna do to a state agency employee? That's the climate, and everybody who works for the Wall's administration knows it.
Speaker 25
Thank you. Representative Rarek, do you believe the Walls administration seriously pursued whistleblowers' reports of fraud?
Speaker 6
I think that the Walls administration seriously retaliated against whistleblowers and ignored them and dismissed them. And, you know, in my opening statement, I talked about the threats of firing them and blacklisting them and things like that. So that's what the Wall administration focused on.
Speaker 25
Representative Rarek, innocent American taxpayers are collateral damage in the Democrats' reckless disregard for taxpayer funds. Hardworking Americans and their communities are left to pay the price. What lessons can other states and federal officials take from your work to expose the stunning amount of fraud and the network of those who enabled it that you all have exposed in Minnesota?
Speaker 6
Yeah. The answer to that is very simple. And that is if you just do simple, basic, good governance like reconciliation and a few other financial controls, you won't have the problems that you have here. And if you don't retaliate against your employees, your frontline workers that point out fraud, you won't have this problem either.
Speaker 5
Yes. Absolutely. Then you have to have a culture of good faith, and that is what is lacking in Minnesota. There is not a culture of good faith. And you've seen a very strange strategy going on right now with Minnesota Democrats where every day they're denying this problem, which really strikes me as bizarre because we know there are more prosecutions coming.
So what are they gonna say as story after story drops? And we can cite the time and date where they said it wasn't a problem.
Speaker 25
Thank you. And, mister chairman, I'd like to note that it was the education and workforce committee when I was chair that first brought this issue to the public's attention, and we got nowhere under a Democrat administration. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Speaker 1
Exactly correct. Thank you, Doctor Fox. Chair recognizes Miss Summer Lee from Pennsylvania.
Speaker 26
On this committee have already articulated, nobody here believes that rooting out fraud and waste and abuse is not a top priority of this committee, of our caucus, of their conference. It is. If you're on this committee, it is the top charge that we all undertake incredibly seriously. But I think, like, so many things with the modern Republican Party is, like, you're skulking right around the edge of things, but, too often, your bigotry, the Republican Party's own bigotry, is imprisoning them and keeping them from ever actually doing something that helps, not harms the American people. And this is another one of those instances.
Right? When it's a person of color, if it's two or three, it's a pattern, and the entire community must be indicted. But if it's 100 Republicans, it's just not bad. Neither here nor there, because it's important. That's why we have routinely held hearings where we actually go over with the government accountability office their high risk list.
We take it seriously. But the tone of this hearing seems to be a hypocritical witch-hunt. It's hard to take it as anything but that, rather than an actual oversight effort. Our federal government currently has the tools to catch and prevent waste, fraud, and abuse. It's how the alleged fraud in Minnesota was caught by the Biden administration in the first place.
Mister Blue, as a former federal prosecutor, you're familiar with some of the tools that we have. Correct?
Speaker 26
Just briefly, could you please verify the following tools for me? Yes or no. Does the Government Accountability Office work to reduce waste, fraud, and abuse? Yes. Do inspectors general work towards these goals?
Speaker 26
What about the general, the council of the inspectors general on integrity and efficiency? Yes. Are whistleblowers important to rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse? Absolutely. Has the Trump administration helped to hurt or helped these tools?
Speaker 7
Certainly hurt it by disbanding the council for inspectors general and then ultimately firing 19 IGs.
Speaker 26
Again, Trump has attacked the oversight mechanisms within the federal government. He illegally fired 17 inspectors, generals, and other key personnel. He goes after whistleblowers, and he tries to roll back their protections. He routinely ignores the rampant corruption within his own administration. Republicans have turned a blind eye to all of this.
They have held no hearings on these actions. And this hearing today isn't even about fraud generally in the federal benefits system, which we would welcome. Republicans have cherry picked a blue state and an immigrant population vulnerable to demonize. To be clear, Minnesota is not the only state with a fraud problem. To truly tackle waste, fraud, and abuse, we need to approach the issue with a scalpel, not a mallet.
Discovering that people are committing fraud in the federal program does not mean we should smash the whole thing and end it. It means its oversight mechanisms need to be improved. That's why it's so disappointing to see that the Minnesota House Fraud Prevention Committee that our witness, the honorable Kristen Robbins, chairs, has issued no reports on these uncovered schemes. It hasn't advanced any legislation to address the issue or even shared whistleblower reports with their democratic colleagues. They've just held a bunch of hearings and generated headlines, something our committee is all too familiar with.
This hearing is not an effort by Republicans to improve social services programs. It's an excuse to end them and to punish democratic-led states. This has always been the plan. It's why Republican so-called big beautiful bill is estimated to cut more than 1,000,000,000,000 from Medicaid and CHIP benefits and cut SNAP for 40,000,000 people. The very children or folks with disabilities who were mentioned in the opening statements.
Trump has also already taken advantage of the situation in Minnesota. After a YouTuber harassed and posted unsubstantiated claims of fraud against childcare centers, HHS froze childcare funding to Minnesota, which would affect more than 23,000 children. Just yesterday, Trump also froze approximately 10,000,000,000 in funding for programs supporting childcare, social services, grants, and cash assistance in not only Minnesota, but in other Democratic-led states of California, Colorado, New York, and Illinois. No matter what party we're elected to, we represent the people of our district, Democrat or Republican. We represent, as the federal government, all people of all states, irrespective of how they voted.
That's the charge that I took. I would like and hope that you all would do the same. When so many of these social service programs are being gutted and defunded, fraud becomes even more harmful, as that means even less money is going to people who need it. People need these programs. This situation should be an opportunity to take a deep look at the programs and improve their oversight abilities. Not an excuse to cut them entirely.
If we care about the most vulnerable, if we care about the most marginalized, this is an opportunity to do so. And I welcome us to actually do that one day. Thanks. I'll go back.
Speaker 1
Miss Lee, the IGs are hired to identify fraud. They haven't identified fraud. The IGs have failed. But, anyway, you.
Speaker 26
He actually initiated this, sir, but they're exactly so much for your opinion.
Speaker 1
You have failed. I yield it back. Chair recognizes Mr. Perry from Pennsylvania for five minutes.
Speaker 30
I thank the chairman. And I'd just like to point out to everybody that at this very moment, we're gonna consider an appropriations bill that had an earmark in it, for a million dollars for another Somali led organization whose family has ties and convictions to ISIS and fentanyl related addiction. And I think it's very difficult to just for all of us to determine what's legitimate and what's not. But I would just ask if the committee will play the video that Mister Crane had referred to for me at this time.
Speaker 30
We get the sound turned up. You can see the subtitles there. If you'll notice the campaign contribution at the bottom for $4,700, and then the $250,000,000 fraud scheme associated with said individuals. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, it's not me calling out one community or another, or one individual representative or another. It's fraud.
Representative Robbins, Hudson, and Rarek, thanks for your service. I know it's difficult, and you're operating in difficult circumstances where it doesn't sound like you have a lot of support. And I imagine that, as Miss Robbins, Representative Robbins, you're the chair of the oversight policy committee. Is that right?
Speaker 30
Yeah. I imagine at the state level, you don't quite have the resources you need to track down all this stuff. This federal jury found that feeding our future mastermind and codefendant, and also the contributor to one of your representatives from your state, one of our colleagues here, $4,700 for a $250,000,000 pandemic fraud scheme. Like, you probably don't have the resources to find that kind of stuff. It's massive.
Right? And I suspect as someone who, you know, you serve at the pleasure of your constituents who wanna see you elected and contribute to you, a $4,700 campaign contribution for a $250,000,000 of, I guess, spending at the federal level is a pretty good investment for people. We're not here to pick on anybody, but I will tell you, I think the American people are particularly affronted when their goodwill is returned by stealing their hard earned money. I just want to if you can comment on that particular case, this feeding our future, and the fact that these folks plead guilty to 250,000,000 and then connections to the political operation in your state, which is dismantling your state.
Speaker 4
Thank you, sir. Yes. So this is the big problem. There's a network of people who have been, politically, supporting the Democrats, who have also been contributing to them, and who have been involved in multiple schemes. So a woman who is in this childcare group, the Minnesota Minority Child Care Association, Ikram Mohammed, she was later indicted in the Feeding Our Future scandal, as was her brother and her mother and, I believe, a sister.
And so it's a network that functions in our state, that we have to get a handle on. And then the one of the people indicted in that case for feeding our future for money laundering, $1,100,000. Then they used that same company, Shell company, they did the money laundering with to buy property for an assisted living facility after they were indicted. And then his wife provides a company getting millions of dollars from the state to provide services to the assisted living facility bought by his shell company he's already been indicted for. They do not shut off the spigot. That's the problem.
Speaker 30
This is completely outrageous, obviously. I'm not an attorney or any one of you three attorneys. Are you yes, sir. Well, you know, you said, representative Robbins, that you informed the governor of these things. That's what you said.
Right? That's your testimony here today.
Speaker 4
Yes, sir. I did a hearing on it, and I brought charts and laid out the roadmap.
Speaker 30
So there are crimes of commission and crimes of omission. So if the governor didn't actively be involved in this fraud, that would be a crime of commission. But if he knew about it and didn't do anything about it, would you consider that a crime of omission?
Speaker 30
And what should be done about crimes of omission regarding taxpayer funds?
Speaker 4
So they should be prosecuted. And when as you said, we don't have a lot of resources on our committee. As legislators, we don't have access to bank records, health records, or the state payment system. So when we get credible allegations of fraud, we bring it to the US attorney and the office of the legislative auditor because they can get access to those records and then bring the prosecutions criminally.
Speaker 1
Mister chairman, before I go to miss Randall, recognize mister Biggs for UC. Thank you.
Speaker 18
Chairman. Number one, Washington Post calls for welfare reform after the Minnesota fraud scandal. Exclusive, treasury and house panel launched probes into Tim Waltz's handling of 1 billion dollars of food aid fraud. Additionally, x, referring to the earmark that mister Perry just referred to. Additionally, the Somali fraud scandal gave Trump a kill switch.
What happens if he doesn't use it? Resurface video shows how Somali scammers use daycare centers to scam the state. A scrutinizing snap will help ensure the neediest get food stamps. Masterclass, A G Hamilton Schools WAPO hack playing the race card to defend Somali fraud ring in Minnesota. Tim Walz was brought down by a scandal hiding in plain sight.
Unearthed surveillance video shows parents allegedly helping with fraud. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen yields back or I'm sorry. Without objection, so ordered. Gentlemen, yields back. Miss Randall, a couple of our witnesses have requested bathroom breaks. I told them the racking member and I agreed they can go and come back.
We're gonna keep the hearing going. If your questions were pertaining to one of them, we'll skip to someone else if that do you wanna go ahead? Alright. Chair recognizes you for five minutes.
Speaker 31
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I have prepared some remarks that I definitely wanna get to about the importance of childcare funding for all of us in all of our districts. I think we all recognize that we are in a child care crisis. We have lost so many parents, especially women, from the workforce because they just cannot find adequate childcare. But I have to start by addressing some of what we have heard in this committee so far, today.
I didn't get myself together to ask any of my colleagues to yield to a quest for a question. So I'll ask you, and if you don't know the answer, it's okay. I do. What percent of sexual assaults in the United States are committed by white men?
Speaker 31
57 percent. Of the January 6 insurrectionists who were pardoned, do you know how many have been charged, convicted, and arrested of additional crimes, including child sexual assault, kidnapping, production of child pornography, rape, conspiracy to murder an FBI agent, domestic violence by strangulation?
Speaker 31
33¢ their pardons. Of the 21,504 murder offenders in the United States in 2023, do you know how many were white?
Speaker 31
8,842, which is 41 percent. Of the following the domestic extremist tracker that GEW compiles, since 2015, there have been 643 individuals charged, 447 percent found guilty. Do you know how many are the men?
Speaker 31
95 percent. We can trot out all of the data that we want to create the sense that there is a bad guy. There is a bad group of people. There are folks who are not among us. There are folks who are others.
And I think we should spend a lot more time looking at ourselves, looking at American citizens, looking at white men who are committing violence at disproportionate rates in our country, who are committing crimes at disproportionate rates in our country, including the president of the United States who is sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, as so many of my colleagues have pointed out. I also wanna say, you know, I've heard a lot about the Somali donors to political campaigns. We all acknowledge, right, that you cannot donate to a political campaign in the United States unless you are an American citizen. Right? I'm just gonna like acknowledge that.
You know who else is getting rich as a campaign donor? The expense of the US taxpayers and because of the decisions that this government has made? Yes. Elon Musk. But, also, billionaire Paul Singer, a Trump donor who is getting rich off the military actions that this president engaged in Venezuela.
Now, about childcare. $7 for every $1 spent on childcare and early learning is returned to our US economy. It's good for families. It's good for kids. It's good for our economic growth.
But we are still facing a childcare crisis in this country. Church Robbins, I understand that you have three kids and that they were enrolled in daycare at one point before you became a stay-at-home mom. What would your reaction be to an unknown, potentially armed, angry individual showing up at your home with a camera, demanding to enter while your children were at home?
Speaker 31
But how would you feel about it if someone who was armed and angry showed up where in the house where your children were?
Speaker 31
Thank you. I imagine you'd be scared. I think many families would be scared if that happens to you. I wanna share a story of a provider from Washington state who said, following these fraud claims and the demonization of Somali Americans and childcare providers. Three adults came into her home and banged on her door, startling the children in her care.
The children were frightened and confused. She's been receiving repeated death threats by phone and voicemail. Individuals have returned multiple times, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. Parking outside the home and monitoring activity, they recorded families arriving and leaving. As a result, families felt unsafe, and some withdrew their children from care.
A nearby provider closed their program entirely due to fear. Another provider shared that she was approached by a man with a gun outside her home, who interrogated her about her child care program, and she is now too scared to step outside. Providers aren't answering the phone anymore because of all the threats, which means that parents aren't able to get in touch with the staff regarding their children's care.
Speaker 1
Mister chairman, order. Gentle ladies, time's expire. You went thirty seconds over.
Speaker 32
Thank you, mister chairman, and thanks to the witnesses serving. Now, Miss Robbins, the Minnesota legislature led by your committee sounded the alarm on the fraud for years, but it's been ignored by Governor Walt. So where did Heath Ellison, the attorney general, also be? Was he aware of this?
Speaker 4
Yes. He was aware of the fraud, and he came before our committee. And I feel like he did not do his job prosecuting these cases. Most of the cases have been prosecuted federally by the US attorney, both under president Biden and currently under president Trump.
Speaker 32
That's kind of find very interesting. Well, maybe it has to do with something with campaign contributions. Attorney general Ellison and his son received from members of the leading Feeding Our Future, an organization now under investigation. The same group whose members allegedly tried to bribe jurors, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence. Nothing to see here.
Sounds very familiar. Sounds very Biden crime syndicate esque. Now, when you're talking about the tools that you could use, would any NGO that takes federal funding be of value to you, that they would have to disclose all their federal funding or all their funding mechanisms if they took 1p from the federal government?
Speaker 4
Yes. One of the things we've seen in Minnesota is that some of these nonprofits have had their federal 501c3 status revoked, but the state continues to fund it.
Speaker 32
It's interesting you say that because, you know, the IRS actually does this study, actually has those numbers. But when you order it, it's blanked out. It's redacted. All of it's redacted. I wonder if there's some interesting aspects to that, you know, follow the money trail.
Now, representative Hudson, the head of Feeding Our Futures, was sentenced in November for his role in the largest COVID fraud scheme in US history, according to the DOJ. This is a predictable result of the massive COVID spending with little or no oversight. In fact, we spent between 4.3 and 7,500,000,000,000 during COVID, and we don't have a single receipt, not one. K? Now this is a predictable outcome from massive spending.
Whether it's expanded COVID tax credits under the so-called Affordable Care Act or programs like the massive Minnesota HHS initiative with no enrollment cap. Unfortunately, there are plenty of similar federal programs right here in Washington, D.C. My question for you is, in your experience, what failures make government funding streams particularly susceptible to fraud?
Speaker 5
Well, as I outlined in my opening statement and my written testimony, basically, we're spending far more money than we have the operational capacity to monitor. Like, they're just now deputy US attorney, he was US attorney at the time. Joe Thompson said, we can't prosecute our way out of this. That's another way of saying it. We have to have controls on the front-end.
Speaker 32
Well, and with the massive amounts like I just talked to you about in COVID, you know, it actually it gives the environment for fraud. It just builds on it. Right? Correct. Well, miss Rerick, what concrete actions did the Walt administration take to intimidate whistleblowers into silence?
Speaker 6
So I think the first thing he did was put in place commissioners. Right now, we have a deputy commissioner over the department of human services that is known to whistleblowers as being the queen of whistle of retaliation. So when you put somebody in charge that is known to retaliate, that's a problem. I would also note on your previous question about the COVID money, and we discovered in our committee that the auditor, so there was a bid for auditing the COVID money, and the auditor was known to be our Minnesota state auditor, Blaha. So that's another Democrat within the whole fold of the Democrats in malls as well.
Speaker 32
Would surprise you that we spent $13,000,000,000,000 from Bill Clinton to Donald Trump, in that span of time. $13,000,000,000,000 with not a single receipt.
Speaker 6
That is absolutely shocking. I used to do accounting, and that's deplorable. That's something that you should be in prison for.
Speaker 32
Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, the United States has no obligation to tolerate guests who break our laws. And in this case, there seems to be a whole bunch of them. And, unfortunately, they were targeting one general area.
And it's sad to me that we are always being screamed at about xenophobia, all these different types of phobias, and we're racist, and yet the facts still stand. So, mister chairman, I find it very interesting that today's hearing, and I applaud you for doing it. Thank you. I yield back.
Speaker 1
Thank you. Gentlemen, now our chair recognizes the lady from Texas, Miss Jasmine Crockett.
Speaker 1
I'm sorry, Miss Crockett. Chair recognized mister Biggs. I apologize for that.
Speaker 18
There's some more you see. Senator John Kennedy brings Somali fraud to the Senate floor. Viral videos, David says he filed a complaint against Waltz over fraud allegations. Minnesota adds Medicaid fraud verification amid alleged $9,000,000,000 loss. Minnesota's Somali fraudsters paid for rich lifestyles with stolen money.
What investigators still haven't asked about Minnesota's fraud? I hope to ask that. Trump deploys 2,000 federal agents to Minnesota. Venezuela's been dealt with. Somali scammers should be next.
Beyond Parity, Craigslist ad from a day care center in Minneapolis seeks to hire 20 child actors. Doctor Oz orders full-scale federal audit of Minnesota Medicaid. Did you miss a story about alleged Medicaid fraud from a small-run health services provider in Maine? A YouTuber's follow-up video on Minnesota fraud is just as wild. HHS to close Biden-era loophole that lets states pay child care providers without counting attendance.
Yield that.
Speaker 1
Thank you. Without objection, so ordered. Chair, now recognize Ms. Jasmine Crockett from Texas.
Speaker 33
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. And for every witness that is here, thank you so much for your time and your attention. I just have one quick question. I have not been here the entire hearing, but I don't think this question has been posed to each of you, and we can start at the far end. Do you believe that all Somalis are engaged in fraud?
Speaker 33
Okay. Thank you so much. I just wanna make sure I level set because it seems like we want to continue to, especially as we just heard those particular articles entered into the record, we want to continue to just make it seem as if you are Somali, then somehow you are a fraudster. And this administration has decided that it wants a target on its back. And so when my colleague, Miss Randall, decided that she wanted to talk about the threats that are being made towards various Somali people, the reason she brought it up is because this particular side of the aisle has a tendency of if one person does something bad, especially if they are an immigrant, then we are going to cast aside that entire community.
So I wanted to level set, and I appreciate your honesty because that's something that we very rarely get from our colleagues on the other side of the aisle. In fact, if we wanna talk about fraud, I got a lot of fraud that we gonna talk about because we gonna get into this. But I am very curious to hear. You know, let me ask you, mister Ballou. Are you aware of allegations that $50,000 in taxpayer dollars had been given to someone who is currently sitting in this administration by the name of Tom Holman?
Are you aware? Okay. That's a yes.
Speaker 33
And, last I checked, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you have different information, but he was given that $50,000 in exchange for being able to provide contracts and kickbacks to people as soon as Trump was going to get into office. The DOJ was actually investigating this, but as soon as Trump got into office, last I checked, he actually said, go ahead and throw away that case.
Speaker 7
So it was a Department of Justice investigation, and he accepted the money from an undercover FBI agent in cash.
Speaker 33
Oh, okay. Are you aware whether or not this committee has decided to investigate that?
Speaker 33
Are you aware as to whether or not any committee in Congress has decided to investigate the fact that we know that he took $50,000 from an undercover officer, and yet we still don't have that money, nor does he have any charges?
Speaker 33
Okay. Alright. So let's get into it. We're living through the most corrupt presidential administration in American history, a $300,000,000 bailout, a 230,000,000 payout from the Department of Justice because the president got his feelings hurt because he had to be investigated for being a criminal. Hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars spent at Trump-owned properties around the country, Trump-branded wine being sold at the Coast Guard exchanges.
American taxpayer dollars being spent on DHS propaganda ads on Truth Social, awarding federal contracts to corporations in exchange for campaign contributions. Cash Patel flew his girlfriend around the country on a multimillion-dollar jet that taxpayers pay for. Christie None gave companies she's affiliated with hundreds of millions of tax dollars, then went out and spent another $200,000,000 on two private jets for her travel. For twelve months, this administration has been taking billions of taxpayer dollars from the American people and has been giving it away to their own companies in the form of tax cuts, government contracts, or other government-funded subsidies. So Congress has a role in getting rid of fraud, I will admit that, in any federally funded government program.
However, I think the fraud that the American people are concerned about is that the Republicans are taking away American self-care so that ultra billionaires can get more tax cuts. The real fraud is the dehumanization and demonization of the working class Americans and immigrants to distract folks away from corporate socialism that's happening because of the Republicans. So this is truly the definition of throwing away the baby with the bath water. The Republican philosophy is that if the cost of living for the average American increases, they're on their own. But if the cost of doing business increases for the wealthiest people on earth, well, then it's the government's job to bail them out.
But I wanna get to my last question because, Baloo, I gotta give you a chance. He's been issuing pardons for numerous people who have defrauded the American people. And Republicans on this committee, yeah, just as quiet as the room got. Right? So, mister Baloo, talk to me about how the Trump administration has welcomed fraud across government by purging DOJ attorneys and shuttering ethics offices across the federal government.
Speaker 7
Well, you know, one of the things that's been a common theme in this discussion so far is potential government employee involvement in some of these schemes. That hasn't been proven yet, but it does seem to be alleged. The concern that I have is the office that would prosecute that in the Department of Justice, the public integrity section, has been largely defunded and decimated.
Speaker 33
Thank you so much. My time has expired, but I do have some UCs, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 33
I do. Okay. The first one is from Truth Out. Trump grants clemency to executive who led a $205,000,000 Medicare fraud scheme.
Speaker 33
The next one is Trump commute sentence of doctor Solomon Melgin. I, doctor, found guilty of Medicare fraud.
Speaker 33
The next one, health care fraudster Philip Esframes is the latest Trump clemency recipient to be arrested. He defrauded more than $1,000,000,000 from Medicare.
Speaker 33
Trump pardons nursing homeowner and supporter convicted of $7,000,000 tax evasion.
Speaker 33
I will. I got you. Trump pardons cost victims and taxpayers $1,300,000,000, House Judiciary Committee Democrats' review says.
Speaker 34
I move that the committee issue a subpoena to the Department of Homeland Security and the US Citizenship and Immigration Services for all records related to the immigration and naturalization of or any immigration benefit received by Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Ahmed Abdi Salahan Ersi, also known as Ahmed Aiden, Ahmed Nursaid Elmi, and any members of Ilhan Omar's family.
Speaker 1
Okay. Another motion is made. The committee will hold this motion in advance, until the end of today's hearing. The committee will now proceed with today's hearing. Thank you, Miss Mike.
Chair recognizes Mr. Biggs from Arizona.
Speaker 18
Thank you, miss, thank you, mister chairman. A report that came out yesterday indicates that, on average, almost $1,000,000 a day in cash is being sent from Minnesota, out of the country by a small group of Somali carriers. Are any of you familiar with that on the panel?
Speaker 4
I'm not familiar with that particular story, but that story has been in Minnesota for a long time where millions of dollars has gone out of MSTPR Airport in cash to Somalia.
Speaker 18
The Biden administration required states to pay health care and day care providers before verifying any attendance at a day care, and before care was delivered.
Speaker 18
Would you say that policy facilitated the funneling of funds or defrauding of government funds? We'll start with, we'll go down the panel. We'll start with Representative Robbins, please.
Speaker 4
My understanding is that there weren't ever enough internal controls. And but under Medicaid rules, the Walls administration already had the opportunity to stop payment when there were credible allegations of fraud. They had the opportunity to do a prepayment review. They could do all of those things, and they did not use those tools.
Speaker 5
Miss President, not only does paying people before they deliver a service introduce an obvious opportunity for people to abscond with public dollars, but we've heard these arguments in our communities back in Minnesota from Minnesota Democrats that it's just so important that we pay people upfront because they can't afford to wait for the reimbursements.
Speaker 6
Yeah. This is absolutely counter to good accounting and good accountability. So I would definitely say that you should be providing the service and getting paid after.
Speaker 7
I can't speak to that policy only because I am learning about it just now. But I will say, you know, my.
Speaker 18
So then let's the question then is, do you think it's a good idea to pay for the service upfront before it's delivered and without accounting?
Speaker 7
You know, I can only speak to the criminal side of things, not the administrative side. But my concern here, again, is to the extent that there would be violations because of that change, the office responsible for prosecuting this.
Speaker 18
With thanks, brother. Appreciate it. Now here where we're gonna go is one of the things that you mentioned, represent Robbins, is fiscal facilities and real estate. And as we've seen and looked at this, as I've looked at this, all of the public reporting that's out there, looked at a little bit of exhibit A, that's like 2,800 pages or 2,300, whatever it is, didn't get to look at all of it, but looked at some of it. I wanna know, did anybody go in and find out who's owning all these properties because you have basically vacant properties ostensibly holding themselves out to be day care centers?
Who owns those properties? Anybody look into that?
Speaker 4
So some of our staff is looking at it currently, and I would encourage people to think about this as you look at your other states. So we have people who own the properties and then other people related to them or close to them that provide the services, and they both get remuneration. And then we have people who homestead assisted living facilities, small single-family homes, and say it's a business, but then they shouldn't be allowed to homestead. We have instances where there are multiple assisted living facilities that have been homesteaded. So the ownership of the properties and the ownership of the business is very important.
This has gotten to be such a problem in Minnesota that people invest in the daycare business as an investment. And so getting not only who runs the facility, but who the ownership is, is critical because that's where a lot of the money goes.
Speaker 18
Yes. That's my point, is that you are setting up a series and facilitating straw man purchases of actual real property to actually launder or hide money coming from the state and defraud the state. And I would encourage both the feds and the state to really take a close look at that. I did find it interesting. Well, let me just ask the last question I've got, time for here is well, I gotta ask two.
The $18,000,000,000, I'm saying $18,000,000,000, that's the total nut over the last five years if I understand your testimony right, Representative Hudson, and half of it was defrauded. That is.
Speaker 18
Okay. Has the Waltz administration put into place any new procedures since this has come to a very viral head in the last, you know, six weeks?
Speaker 5
They've appointed a couple of guys and shifted around a couple of chairs on the deck, but that is the equivalent of throwing a glass of water at a stove that's on fire.
Speaker 18
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few more UCs, if I may. Go ahead. Thank you. Victims shocked after Biden grants clemency to kids for cash, judge, and $54,000,000 embezzler.
Shocked. Biden clemency for convicted fraudsters met with outrage. It's a slap in the face. Come on Fox News. Biden crime family pardons serve as a confession of their corruption.
Biden pardons more people in his criminal clan and commutes the sentence of Leonard Peltier. Op ed from the former legislative auditor Jim Noble, what's the right number? And then finally, mister chairman, 18 US code 666, theft or bribery concerning programs receiving federal funds seems apt in this case. Mister chairman, I'll yield back. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen, yield back. Chair, I'm gonna ask Miss Presley from Massachusetts.
Speaker 3
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me just begin by making this plain. Credible fraud must be investigated and prevented. Every dollar that is stolen from public programs is a dollar that is taken from a child who needs care, a senior who needs food, or a family that is already struggling to make ends meet. Miss Robbins, I wanna just begin with a basic question, and please answer yes or no.
When someone is convicted of defrauding the public, do you believe that they should be held accountable?
Speaker 3
So if we're serious about fraud, then we also have to be serious about accountability. Miss Robbins, do you mind just expounding, like, what does accountability look like to you?
Speaker 4
We want to prosecute everyone who's committed a crime, and we want to fire officials in the agencies that are liable for allowing the failure of internal controls.
Speaker 3
Okay. So, miss Robbins, let me be more clear. What should happen to fraudsters who steal public dollars?
Speaker 3
So in my opinion, you know, accountability means restitution. It means consequences like incarceration that help ensure that it doesn't happen again, you know, as a real deterrent and accountability. It means that money taken from families and the public is returned to them. But that is not the standard that is being set by Donald Trump, who is wielding his clemency authority to allow fraudsters to escape accountability altogether. Last month, my office published a clemency report titled Trump's clemency gap.
How Trump's pardons are ignoring the people who need them most. I ask unanimous consent to enter this into the record. Thank you. Now to the witnesses who serve in the Minnesota state legislature on the fraud prevention committee, let's walk through these pardons for fraudsters, and we all care about fraud. So Miss Robbins, Mister Hudson, and Miss Rarek, Donald Trump pardoned George Santos who defrauded voters and owed them $370,000 in restitution to victims.
Raise your hand if you oppose this pardon. Thank you, Mr. Ballon.
Speaker 4
Ma'am, I would have to look at the law and the facts of the case. We cannot know the facts of all these individual cases.
Speaker 3
Don't deflect. This is a very public case. You know who George Santos is. You know exactly what he did. We just agreed that, you know, fraud is unacceptable.
And so you just talked about accountability. You said if people commit fraud and exploit the public good, they should be incarcerated. So this is not a complicated question. So I will give you all one more opportunity. Miss Robbins, Mister Hudson, and Miss Rarek, raise your hand if you oppose the pardon of George Santos.
Speaker 3
It's not a game. It's real life. It's not a game at all. Okay. But I will take your refusal to go on record not only as cowardice, but that you do agree with that pardon of that fraudster.
Moving on. Donald Trump also gave, and this has never been done before, presidential pardons to corporations that committed fraud. One example is the crypto company Bitmex that violated US law and was fined $100,000,000. Now raise your hand if you oppose Trump's pardon of this crypto company.
Speaker 3
Thank you, Mr. Ballou. Okay. Again, I'll take your refusal to raise your hand in opposition. That means that you support this pardon of this corporation that defrauded folks to the tune of $100,000,000.
Speaker 3
Not in order with the rules of the committee. This is my time. This is my time.
Speaker 3
Questions and you answer, but you're too much of a coward to answer. So we're gonna move on. Now yesterday was the five-year anniversary, and I want a note of the January sixth insurrection. And on Donald Trump's first day in office, he pardoned 1,500 insurrectionists, including Brian Christopher Mock, who is from Minnesota. Are y'all gonna say you don't know who that is?
He's from Minnesota. Now he kicked, shoved, and threw a flagpole at the police officers. You know law enforcement that you claim to support? And he did all of that in the name of fraud. He was an election denier.
So an election fraud lie. Now he claims he did these things in the name of patriotism, but really, he's just a criminal. So raise your hand if you oppose Trump's pardon of the Minnesota individual.
Speaker 4
Ma'am, this grandstanding. This is not grandstanding. This is what the hate about DC.
Speaker 3
This is accountability, and you are hypocrites. So, again, I will take your refusal to.
Speaker 1
time. Miss Presley, you've already secured your MSNBC spot tonight. Now your time is required. Care recognizes Miss Makes.
Speaker 34
We're gonna be talking about MSNBC. And this administration, you, mister chairman.
Speaker 1
I wouldn't want to interrupt Miss Bates. It's her time. Chair recognizes Miss.
Speaker 34
TV. You're really good. No, baby. You're not. No, baby.
You're not. You are not in order. You're out of order. Goodbye. You're done.
Alright. Mister chairman, it's my favorite. Guys.
Speaker 34
Good here? Mister chairman, thank you. As I listen to the witnesses answer questions, I am struck by the truly breathtaking amount of fraud, the scope and scale perpetrated against the American people by Somalians in Minnesota, screeching Democrats like you just heard at our witnesses. Democrats on this committee don't wanna talk about Minnesota fraud, because Minnesota fraud is Democrat fraud. You're gonna make a great host on MSNBC.
It's gonna be great. And this is a cover-up. I mean, the very definition of cover up. And so while we're still trying to understand the scale of the fraud, it appears that the amount of fraud we are talking about could exceed the size of the GDP in Somalia, the size of its economy is what we're talking about. So let that sink in, the amount of fraud we're talking about.
My first question is this, mister Balu, this afternoon. Should Somalians in Minnesota be required to speak English if they are citizens? What? Yes or no?
Speaker 34
Should they, it's not inappropriate. This is the United States of America. Do you speak English? Should Americans speak English? Do citizens speak English?
Yes or no?
Speaker 28
Point of inquiry. Is English the official language of the United States? I'm just I said a question. I
Speaker 34
I would like to reclaim my time, Mr. Chairman. Mister chairman, I'd like to reclaim my.
Speaker 34
Right to speak in this committee. Conservative women have the right to speak here and not be interrupted by me.
Speaker 34
We, okay. My next question is, should Somalians who committed fraud be denaturalized and deported, mister Balu?
Speaker 7
Again, I'm not sure that's an appropriate question because the majority of Somalis.
Speaker 34
Commit fraud in this country, and you are here from Somalia, you don't believe they should be denaturalized and deported.
Speaker 34
Fraud, would it take for you to wanna denaturalize and deport someone who committed fraud in this country? How much?
Speaker 34
Right. And the ones that committed fraud, the question was, if you understand English, should those who committed fraud be denaturalized and deported? The Somalians who are here, the ones that can't speak English.
Speaker 34
Ask the question? No. You can't because you are not answering the question. My next question is, this is yes or no. If you marry your brother and you commit immigration fraud, should you be denaturalized and deported?
Again, that immigration fraud. Yes or no?
Speaker 34
My question, so that's probably more inappropriate. Can you name one significant contribution to Minnesota from a Somali immigrant who can't speak English?
Speaker 34
You didn't name one. Alright. So my next questions are gonna be for the honorable Miss Robbins. Good afternoon. Thank you all for being here today.
I heard some discussion earlier about al-Shabab. Mhmm. And the discovery that you believe some of this money that was defrauded of the US government went to Al Shabab. Is that correct? Did I hear that right?
Yes. It's been proven. Money, are we talking about?
Speaker 4
You know, we don't have an amount. So there have been specific cases where it's been charged where we have an amount. But then of the millions that go to Somali over the years in remittances, a portion of that we understand is taken as sort of a tax or, you know, corruption by Al Shabaab when it enters the country.
Speaker 34
I am on the DNI website where it tells me that since 2014, Al-Qaida has killed more US citizens than any other Al-Qaida affiliate. And as of 2025, al-Shabab, this group is al-Qaida's wealthiest component. Can you believe that? Yes. And that American tax dollars through Minnesota, through governor Tim Walz, who shamefully had to resign from his reelection the other day.
Thank you to the young YouTuber Nick Shirley. This is the kind of thing that was happening in Minnesota. So I praise the Republicans who are here today from the Minnesota state legislature exposing this fraud. And then, Miss Robbins, when do you think Tim Mauls became aware?
Speaker 4
Of the fraud? I think he's been aware of it since the beginning. This was a huge issue in our state in the year he ran for governor, and the OLA reports came out first, identifying the childcare fraud in March and September 2019 when he was in the first months of his term.
Speaker 34
Was Keith Allison in on it too, knowledgeable, the Catholic-turned Muslim guy in Minnesota?
Speaker 4
Yes. They were all newly in office, and this was very public knowledge in Minnesota.
Speaker 34
What role do you think Tim Walls and Keith Ellison played there in his administration in delaying investigations into the fraud?
Speaker 4
So I've outlined several things where they stopped our ability to strengthen internal controls, and they also shut down the criminal investigations by the OIG and DHS.
Speaker 34
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I do have two articles, Mister Chairman, that I would like to ask.
Speaker 34
This one on foxnews.com, Minnesota fraud probe will expand to other states. And then, on house.gov, legislators blast DHS for revelations that had contracts with Feeding Our Future fraudsters.
Speaker 1
Without objection to order, chair, somebody else seek recognition. Chair recognizes Miss, I'm sorry.
Speaker 21
Mister chair, I'd like to start with a UC request, an article from The Washington Post titled Trump amplifies conspiracy theories on killing a Minnesota lawmaker. As we know, the president shared a video.
Speaker 21
Thank you. So I wanna start with this question for the lawmakers here from Minnesota. As you know, Donald Trump has been posting these conspiracy theories about linking Governor Walls to the killing of your former speaker and insinuating that Governor Walls had something to do with it. Can you please raise your hand if you think this is an appropriate action by the president of the United States? Raise your hand, please.
Speaker 4
So the person who murdered our colleague, Speaker Melissa Hortman, and her husband Mark.
Speaker 21
Answer the question. In his appropriate for the president of the United States.
Speaker 4
Evidence saying caused violence against his sins. Ordering him to do it. I know the facts will come out in the case, and we need to be respectful of the Horton family, and we need to let this play out in the courts.
Speaker 21
That is unacceptable. It is inappropriate to the highest degree for the president of The United States to be sharing conspiracy theories that are obviously going to lead to violence directed at governor Tim Waltz. Now moving on to the issue here today, we all care deeply about combating waste, fraud, preventing corruption, and holding bad actors accountable. Unfortunately, this country has seen an unprecedented avalanche of such abuse in the past year, all stemming from the Trump administration, the most corrupt and most wasteful administration in American history. It is truly amazing that the majority moved so quickly to hold basically an emergency hearing on the situation in Minnesota without ever one time having held a hearing on the national crisis that is the Trump criminal enterprise being run out of the White House.
I don't even know where to begin. Maybe the Republican majority would be interested in holding a hearing on the $50,000 cash bribe that borders our Tom Home and received from FBI undercover agents in a cava bag. Or how about a hearing on the $400,000,000 bribe that Donald Trump presented by multibillion-dollar companies in the form of the White House ballroom that Donald Trump seems most obsessed with? Do Republicans have any interest in holding a hearing on that corruption scandal? Or the fraudsters and the criminals that Donald Trump has pardoned?
He freed George Santos, convicted of theft of public funds. He pardoned Paul Walzak, convicted of millions of dollars in tax fraud, after Walzak's mother raised money for Trump's campaign. He released the former president of Honduras sentenced to 45 years for flooding the United States with oceans of cocaine. And these are just a few examples. I haven't even brought up Doge and Elon Musk corruptions, Trump's firing of inspectors general who are in place to root out fraud, and career US attorneys who are doing the bidding of Donald Trump in prosecuting his personal and political enemies.
Is there any interest in holding an oversight hearing on any of those issues? Now I wanna talk about one specifically, an appalling instance of blatant corruption in the Trump White House reported by The New York Times, that the Republican majority has shown literally zero interest in investigating. This is regarding World Liberty Financial, the cryptocurrency company founded in 2024 by Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr., Alex Wickoff, and Zach Wickoff, among others. If those names sound familiar, it is because the company is a joint project by the Trump and Wickoff families, Steve Wickoff being Trump's special envoy in the Middle East. You may think that the president's financial interest in a secretive cryptocurrency exchange may be bad enough, but it gets so much worse.
Emirati investment firm, MGX, invested $2,000,000,000 in the Trump Wickoff crypto business, personally enriching the sitting president of the United States, his family, and Wickoff as a White House employee. This is at the same time that Wickoff is an envoy to the Middle East. He's the one negotiating with the Emirates as an official representative of the United States government. While Witkoff and his sons were negotiating this private crypto deal, Steve Witkoff was also in charge of negotiating with the very same officials as a US official to give the Emirati something they desperately wanted from us: highly advanced and specialized computer chips. To make the corruption even more explicit, after the crypto deal went through, Donald Trump gave his go-ahead for the transfer of hundreds of thousands of advanced chips to the Emiratis despite the extremely, extremely concerning national security implications.
It's perhaps one of the largest and most obvious corruption schemes in US history, implicating a foreign government paying off the president of the United States and the White House to the tune of literally billions of dollars in exchange for sensitive US technologies. So please let the Republicans spare us with their feigned concerns about waste, fraud, and corruption. I yield back.
Speaker 20
Mister chairman, thank you. We're here today, in this hearing because there exists damning. Thank you. Mister chairman, thank you. We're here today in this hearing because there exists damning and overwhelming evidence of massive industrial scale fraud occurring in Minnesota right now, and it's been going on for years. This is a huge story.
And while many want to ignore it, deflect from it, or be masters of obfuscation, which we have seen here today, this should be a page one front and center above the fold headline for media outlets across the country. But it's not.
Speaker 20
I think it's very interesting. ABC, NBC, CBS, you can find 74 stories today run before you even get a hint of this scandal. There should be a headline, and, unfortunately, it's a back page fine print. Still, as bad as the network's coverage, albeit, you know, it's ludicrously abysmal, it's better than CNN. This very morning, CNN ran 51 stories on its website, including such riveting breaking news articles such as dogs that are trained to sniff mold, a flock of gay sheep, k-pop's newest release entitled Demon Hunters, inside glimpse of P Diddy Combs' prison cell, and Chinese robots playing soccer.
But nary a mention of the tens of billions of dollars of American taxpayer money that's been stolen from honest folks in America by scumbag thieves. This is the oversight committee. We should have one overriding emotion, whether it's Republican or Democrat. We should all be outraged that crooks, thieves, and dirtbags are robbing the American people. So I was very curious to see how the Democrats would play today.
Would they expose this fraud and be willing to work with us, or would they go to their playbook of Donald Trump bad? And, when we were in Doge, it was Elon Musk and billionaires' bad. And they didn't, they haven't really disappointed. January 6 has also been mentioned. Has nothing to do with what we're talking about today.
The ranking member's opening comments even bizarrely talked about presidential pardons, and he railed against POTUS. It's nothing to do with the matter at hand. But for the record, Joe Biden issued 250% more pardons and commutations than Donald Trump. In fact, 2,545 more. Again, back to the matter.
This has been this money has been stolen systemically by a gang of thieves while the very people charged with the oversight, namely the Walt administration, have been complicit. They've looked the other way. And the democrats didn't disappoint either with ists, isms, and phobes, quotes like bigotry and hatred, and were a hypocritical witch hunt. And then they were taking a hero, Nick Shirley, trying to make him a villain. Mister chairman, I'd like you to enter in a record an article.
It's not racist to notice Somali fraud. Without objection to the order. 98 defendants that have been charged thus far in this case, and I think it'll end up being hundreds, 85 of them happen to be of Somalian descent. It's just a fact, despite how unfortunate and inconvenient these truths may be to leftists. The assistant US attorney, Joe Thompson, thinks that this fraud can be equivalent to maybe $9,000,000,000.
The entire federal budget of the country Somalia is 1,200,000,000.0. Medicaid fraud does exist in all 50 states, but uncovering it aggressively clearly is not a blue-state priority. If you talk to any expert, was in the state legislature for eight years, they will tell you objectively that no matter where it is, about 10 to 20% of all Medicaid spending is fraudulent. In the state of New York, they spent $96,000,000,000. So did they recover from fraud?
9,600,000,000, 960,000,000? No. It was a pittance. It was 0.06% of 1% was recovered. In the state of Minnesota, 18,000,000,000.
It was 0.81% recovered. Representative Robbins and the other reps, thank you for coming. Thank you for your courage. You know you're gonna be, you know, smeared, and I'm not gonna ask you to raise a hand. We're gonna have a conversation.
Okay? When, Miss Robbins, Representative Robbins, when you first uncovered this tectonic fraud, what was the reaction and actions taken by the Waltz administration or Democratic colleagues? Was it working hand in hand to create synergy and offer full support and help to unmask this fraud, or did you face significant headwinds and fierce pushback to the point of opposition?
Speaker 4
Throughout our hearings, they would either deny or deflect, or say, oh, they've handled it, or they're new on the job and they don't know. So those were the answers in the tenor of our hearing. I provided documents to them outlining, as I said, in February, 72 child care centers I thought they should look at. They haven't done it. I've sent six FOIA requests or data requests that have not been responded to.
So they have not been good partners in rooting this out.
Speaker 20
So block votes, in Minnesota in 2016, it was so close that I think Hillary Clinton won the state by about 44,000 votes. But if you have blocked 50,000, can rely on it in Minneapolis. That's rather helpful to win an election in Minnesota. But you know what, Mr. Chairman? Our democratic colleagues, whether it be in Minnesota or here on this oversight committee, they'll eventually rule.
I'll yield back.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen, yields back. Chair recognizing Mr. Simon, Mr. Bell from Missouri.
Speaker 36
Thank you, Mister Chair, Ranking Member, and our witnesses for being here today. I believe in protecting our social services and recognize the need for comprehensive legislation that ensures transparency in the collection and use of federal funds to support these critical programs that serve our communities in need. The resources provided through social services ensure the welfare of the everyday person and family, and these resources and individuals deserve to be protected. These protections should come at all times, not just when politically beneficial. What we're witnessing from President Trump and this administration is an attempt to use social services and the welfare of the American people as pawns to promote their political agenda.
Instead of caring for the challenges of the average person, this administration has deprived them of the very things that the president promised, which is affordable health care, housing, and relief from the rising cost of living. Through rolling back essential health care affordability, cutting funding for assistance programs, implementing harmful tariffs, and advancing legislation such as the one big ugly bill, the administration's actions have ultimately caused more harm than good for the American people. Reports show that since taking office, President Trump has raised the average cost of living. Health insurance costs have risen by hundreds of dollars for the average person, with insurance plans increasing by more than 20%. Housing costs remain at an all-time high, and every day, grocery items show a steady increase with prices rising by 15 to 20%.
We cannot pick and choose when to care for the American people. The actions of this administration show a pattern. They first target our most vulnerable communities, and then gut the very resources to help them. Today, it is our Somali communities and our child care assistance. Tomorrow, it could be your communities and the resources you and your family rely on for well-being.
At its core, this is about the well-being of the American people. If we truly cared about those we have sworn to represent, we would be working to dismantle all the challenges they face, not just the ones that serve political interests. Mister Balu, President Trump has recently made comments on efforts to freeze childcare funding in California, Colorado, Illinois, and New York. Would these actions benefit or harm children and families?
Speaker 36
President Trump has fired thousands of employees across critical departments and has issued executive order 14356, restricting agencies from filling vacant positions or creating new ones unless approved under the order or required by law. Can you speak to how these actions could harm the government's ability to root out waste, fraud, and abuse? Absolutely. So, you.
Speaker 7
Know, it's gonna make it harder both to administer these services and then to identify fraud in the first place. One of the things that I'm particularly concerned about is to go after fraud. One of the easiest ways to do it is to prosecute tax crimes. You know? The challenge that we've got right now is the administration has announced a plan to disband the tax division of the Department of Justice entirely, and that's going to make it much harder to prosecute these sorts of crimes.
Speaker 36
And can you speak from your work as a federal prosecutor on how President Trump's actions have contradicted his promises to the American people?
Speaker 7
Well, to the extent that this administration says that it cares about waste, fraud, and abuse, you know, it seems like that is selective care. You can look at cases like Paul Walzak who, you know, was convicted of fraud, and withheld $10,000,000 to his own employees in nursing homes. His mother attended a $1,000,000 gala fundraiser with the president, and Mister Walzak was quickly pardoned. Now this has happened literally dozens of times where favored defendants either had their prosecutions dropped or were pardoned entirely.
Speaker 37
Sure. I'm sorry, we had another briefing in the building, so I don't wanna go over past things. But during your initial testimony, Miss Rarek, you talked about people being threatened who are whistleblowers. Do you know who those people were? Were they, like, people who made money off of this, political operatives?
You know, could you elaborate on that a little?
Speaker 6
Yes. Thank you. So the people that were doing the threatening were the supervisors and directors within the state agencies.
Speaker 6
They were saying things like, what happens if you lose your home? Right? Because if you lose your job, you lose your home. They had pictures in their personal files of their own homes and their cars. They asked where their children went to school and where their bus stop was.
So there were direct threats and indirect threats.
Speaker 37
Okay. Were any of these people brought to justice, or is this just the way they deal with things in Minnesota?
Speaker 6
You know, it's an interesting thing within the Wall's administration. Those people were promoted.
Speaker 37
States. There is a good book out there called The Tragedy of American Compassion. And in it, they went over the history of welfare and whether it should be done by the state or done privately. And they pointed out the danger that certain nefarious politicians would always want more welfare because they were buying votes. Do you, either one of you, on the political realm of things, feel that perhaps a motive for all the crookedness is, given the size of government today, the importance to win selections, were they motivated a little bit by getting votes of groups of people?
Is this a danger to our, we're not a democracy, of course, but is it a danger to our form of government?
Speaker 6
So I'll answer really quickly, and then I'll pass it over to represent Hudson. Just really quickly, the caveat to this, which is so bizarre in Minnesota, is the fact that state employees, by and large, are Democrats, and they vote Democrat. And the Walls administration, including Flanagan and his former chief of staff, Schmidt, were so brutal that these former Democrat employees want nothing to do with the Democrat party anymore in Minnesota because they have been treated so horrifically.
Speaker 5
What's so sinister about this is that you're right that it absolutely is for electoral benefit and political benefit, but it's sold to one half of the population and to the independents and to the conservatives as we're giving people a hand up. We're gonna help people who are in need. We're gonna give them a temporary way back into working life. But they've set up an industry that's perpetual, where people just stay where they're at.
Speaker 37
make sure people don't get out of poverty. I'll give you another question. I used to be in the state legislature myself in Wisconsin, and I know that when we put together your budget, you have fed funds, unlike money that, you know, Wisconsin was getting in from our own income or sales tax. Insofar as the legislature's playing with fed funds, you're not exactly as, maybe careful with every dollar that's flowing through. And I'm trying to know what we can do to prevent this because you're always gonna have given political parties who think they can benefit from government largesse.
And I think government by its nature is sometimes a little sloppy. Do you think the Minnesota government would be a little bit more careful here on the various programs, and there is some program to program. But if the state had to pick up 10, 15, 20, or 30% of the program so that they had skin in the game.
Speaker 4
Thank you, sir. Yes. In a lot of these programs, the state does have skin in the game. So many of them, Minnesota roughly has a 50 50 Medicaid match. So many of them, it's federal tax dollars, but it's also state tax dollars.
So we are paying for it twice, for our state tax dollars, and then when we pay federal.
Speaker 37
I know. I think Wisconsin, I was there, it was about a 60-40 match with the feds picking up 60, and that came into play. But I gather there's some programs on here that maybe the state match is zero. Is that accurate?
Speaker 37
Okay. I'll ask you just as state legislators and, you know, different state legislators look at this question differently. Do you think as a country on some of these programs, we should be asking some of the programs that are 100% fed funded now? We'd be better off if they were maybe 70% fed funded or 75% fed funded, so the states that have a little bit more of a skin in the game. I'll put it that way.
And a concern I would have, insofar as their programs, which the state is picking up nothing, really, the incentive is to have more graft because you just bring in fed funds to the state.
Speaker 4
Yes, sir. So we need to make sure the states have skin in the game so that they administer the programs properly, because otherwise, their incentive is to draw down more federal money, more federal money to take the burden off state taxpayers. But we're all taxpayers. So somebody's paying. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Speaker 37
Right. And not just, no such thing as a free lunch. It encourages state legislators to look the other way because you're just bringing that money into the state. And it felt that way about Medicaid.
Speaker 39
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a 01/06/2026 article from The New York Times. Health department to freeze $10,000,000,000 in funding to five Democratic states?
Speaker 39
Thank you, sir. I appreciate us having this conversation, and I do apologize to our witnesses, being in the last briefing took us out of this space, but you coming here to provide us some opportunity to discuss this is important because I think it is true. We have to recognize that fraud is fraud, and theft is theft. And anybody, and I say anyone who takes away food out of the mouths of children.
Speaker 39
Who denies childcare to women, particularly young women who are going to school and working and doing everything right, who need a little hand up? I don't know who in here has had to walk their baby to childcare and go to school full time, and work full time as a young mom. I know I did. And I know that I received, but 27 years ago child care stipend. So we can be mad at the criminals in every state, including your state, who took resources from the children.
But I also wanna go back to the unanimous consent that I just talked about. I think we don't have to go too far back, maybe two days, to recognize that the president of the United States and the administration is halting billions of dollars now, billions of dollars to child care providers and centers around this country. In fact, I have a story that we just received in my office. We heard today that there needs to be accountability. But what about accountability to a young woman that we talked to today in our office who was told by her child care center, and she is going to school full time at the local community college, that the president of the United States will be halting all funding.
And within six weeks, she may not have an opportunity to continue her studies, because guess what? There's a party in power that wants to punish the poor, not just in democratic states, but all over the country. The reducing of SNAP benefits, the shocking taking away of resources from sick children, the halting, and I'll say it again, the stopping of clinical trials for sick babies. What we will do as Democrats is acknowledge that fraud is fraud. What we will not do is allow a conversation to go on to problematize immigrants in this country, writ large.
Can you imagine a society where we took the wrong of a small few and relegated that wrong to a whole community? Well, that's what we're doing here today, not just in Minnesota, but now accusing thousands of child care providers all over the country before they get their day in court, proposing that they, in fact, shouldn't be taking care of kids across the country. I think it's shocking. This story that I wanna end my quick testimony with, Nancy Harvey. She's a child care provider in Oakland, California, where I represent a beautiful constituency.
She's in my congressional district. Nancy has been a long-term child care provider, an advocate for early care and education for our babies. No matter who their parents vote for, services that we know are critical for every child. Collective punishment is what the folks across the aisle want to do. We know it's wrong.
It's reckless. And the Trump administration, we believe, must immediately reverse course so that families have access to vital federal funds that they are entitled to, because you have a party that says they want everyone to work in this country. You want everyone to do their fair share. And yet, because we are so angry at a small few folks who, in fact, broke the law, that we wanna create a collective punishment for all poor people, working families who are trying to do their best. I don't have any questions because they have been answered.
This is a policy of cruelty. This is a policy of anti family. This is a policy of anti poverty. And for someone who grew up in poverty, I know how it feels when you wait to just get a chance to do better. And folks who've never met you, talked to you, believed in you or loved you, are telling you you are not worth it.
That is what this administration is doing to millions of children because of this halting of the funding. And I yield back.
Speaker 38
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Miss Robbins and Mister Hudson, Miss Rarek, you're all members of the Minnesota state legislature. Is that correct?
Speaker 38
And, miss Robbins, you're the chair of the fraud prevention, oversight committee. Is that correct?
Speaker 38
And mister Hudson and miss Rack, you're members of that committee as well. Correct?
Speaker 38
So you three, collectively, America should clearly understand. You have an excellent perspective on what's going on inside Minnesota and specifically regarding the fraud that we are investigating and discussing today. Is that correct? Yes. Yes.
Okay. So we have a particular community, a Somali community in Minnesota that has stunning percentages participating in government programs where they're drawing a lot of money, big money. This has been discussed, revealed, reported, and is factual. You have a tremendous amount of criminal fraud taking place, and one of my colleagues, the gentleman from the other side of the aisle, mentioned transparency. I would argue that from a regular American's perspective, it's quite transparent that something criminal is going on when you have billions of dollars disappearing into childcare centers with no children in them, and you have a tremendous transfer of wealth into a relatively small
Speaker 38
Mister immigrant community. You have 9,000,000,000, that's 9,000 million dollars missing in the last few years. It's alleged to be fraudulently stolen. If they're sending money, the Somali community in Minnesota is sending money, big money, overseas. They're contributing money, big money, to Democratic candidates and elected officials.
The Democratic political machine in Minnesota has benefited from this criminal network of Somali immigrants who have systematically stolen billions of dollars of federal charitable money, essentially. The good lady, my colleague, you know, clarified this is money designed for poor folk that need a hand up, and we generally want that to happen in America in an effective manner. So this is the scenario that we are looking into today. Have I summed it up fairly well, miss Robbins?
Speaker 38
Moving before you add, mister Hudson, is this an effective summary, sir?
Speaker 38
Thank you. So from the perspective of members of the Fraud Investigative Committee of the Minnesota state legislature, we have a large criminal network with high percentages of participation in that criminal network from the Somali community in Minnesota. That community has tremendous influence within the political arena, specifically within the Democratic political arena in Minnesota. The Democrat political machine has been covering for this criminal network. And here we go to Governor Waltz's involvement here, which is shocking to me, quite frankly, because I've been friendly with Governor Waltz for many years.
I served with him here. But can you discuss for me the governor's administration's involvement in intimidation, oppression, and retaliation against whistleblowers? Miss Robbins, have you had conversations with whistleblowers who have been treated like that by the Watts administration?
Speaker 38
And what can you tell us about that? Without naming the person or revealing stuff that's secret, tell us how that retaliation would happen.
Speaker 4
So it happens in a variety of ways. They are demoted or reassigned, or they are told that they could lose their job and then their house or their pension or their retirement benefits or not qualify for unemployment. So it's well,
Speaker 38
That's very serious. That's a very serious allegation. I would say that's criminal retaliation. Mister Hudson and Miss Rarek, have you seen similar?
Speaker 6
Yes. So, representative Robbins and, once in a while, representative Hudson have had multiple conversations with whistleblowers, and that is exactly what they said to us, especially in a face-to-face meeting in Saint Paul. That is exactly said.
Speaker 38
Mister chairman, my time has expired. But this leans into the criminal spectrum, sir. I yield.
Speaker 41
Alright. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me just start with something simple. I think we're all agreed today. Fraud is real.
Fraud is wrong, and fraud should be prosecuted, period. And those who stole the taxpayer dollars in Minnesota or anywhere else should face the full force of the law. But what we're seeing today, and the premise of this hearing, is selective outrage about fraud. Because if my Republican colleagues actually cared about stopping fraud, they would not be defending the one president in modern history who is systematically tearing down the institutions designed to prevent it. The one president in history who has pardoned fraudster after fraudster.
But Donald Trump didn't just pardon those convicted of fraud. He's gone after the people whose job it is to find fraud. He fired the independent inspector general at the State Department. He fired the independent inspector general of the intelligence community. He removed the acting inspector general at Health and Human Services in the middle of a pandemic, as massive emergency funds were going out the door.
He pushed out the Defense Department IG. And why has Trump gone after these independent inspectors general? Simple. In each case, they were investigating his or his administration's misconduct and fraud. Donald Trump's approach to fraud is to fire the referees and then say that the game is clean because no one blows the whistle.
And he hasn't stopped with IGs. He's repeatedly attacked prosecutors, law enforcement, and career public servants who investigated misconduct that was politically inconvenient for him. He's turned oversight and fraud prevention into a Donald Trump loyalty test. That is not draining the swamp. So forgive me if I find it difficult to take seriously lectures about fraud from people who have cheered while the most corrupt president in modern history has dismantled protection after protection against fraud.
You don't get to scream fraud on Tuesday after you fired the fraud investigators on Monday. We can protect taxpayers. We can root out corruption and fraud. But we can't do it by turning fraud into a political weapon, and ignoring the record of the person who did more than anyone to weaken accountability. Representative Robbins, in Minnesota, the governor doesn't have the authority to pardon independently.
There's a board, I think, and the governor's a member of that board with the attorney general and some others. But if that board in Minnesota were to pardon individuals convicted of fraud, clearly convicted of fraud. Do you think a pardon like that would damage your efforts to root out corruption and fraud in Minnesota?
Speaker 4
It would really depend on the specifics of the facts of the case and the law, and I you're not willing to say on a hypothetical.
Speaker 41
Gonna say that pardoning fraudsters would make it harder to prevent fraud in Minnesota. You're not willing to say that today?
Speaker 4
I wanna root out fraud and corruption, and make sure people aren't prosecuted.
Speaker 41
You're not willing to say that. You're comfortable with fraudsters being pardoned. You don't think it would damage the work.
Speaker 4
I want everyone who's committed a crime to be prosecuted and held accountable.
Speaker 4
It would depend on the case. I don't participate in the pardon process in Minnesota, but every case is very unique, and every governor and attorney general should look at this case.
Speaker 41
Can you just talk us through, I know this has come up already, the firing of independent inspectors general, the intimidation of them, making it harder to do their jobs. How does that impact fraud prevention and the prosecution of fraud from the perspective of a former prosecutor?
Speaker 7
One of the best investments that the government can make is in its inspectors general. Last year, IGs identified an estimated $50,000,000,000 in savings either through duplicative programs or for specifically criminal fraud. The challenge that we have is with, you know, 19 IGs being fired. That work literally is not happening. And there's evidence to suggest that at least some of them have been fired specifically because they were going after enemies or allies of this administration.
Thank you. Mister chairman, I.
Speaker 41
Ask unanimous consent to enter into the record. A CNN article from 02/11/2025, USAID IG fired day after report critical of impacts of Trump administration.
Speaker 1
Without objection to order, chair now recognizes mister Burchett from Tennessee.
Speaker 42
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that it needs to be said that Governor Waltz needs to step down. Him saying he will stay on to investigate is like OJ Simpson saying he will investigate the murder of his ex wife. Just doesn't work out. Have a question for representatives, and thank y'all for being here.
It's a tough gig. I did that for many years. Do you think that the Wallace administration suppressed fraud and abuse in social service programs because they're afraid of exposing the Somali residents? Just go down the line here. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 4
So not only do we think that's what happened, Mister Burchett, but it is also what a Somali American investigator associated with the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension said. He said in an article, fraudsters also have sought to exploit the burgeoning political power of the Somali community and the feckless fear that establishment politicians and state agencies show when confronted with charges of racism and Islamophobia. This is from a Somali federal prosecutor or investigator.
Speaker 5
Sir? Indeed. It's not just a theory. We have the record of the recording of Keith Ellison meeting with defendants and defeating our future case, where it was very explicit that the motivation for keeping scrutiny off them was based on perceived racism.
Speaker 6
Ma'am? From the mouth of a whistleblower. You appear to be on hold, so this is what a whistleblower was told. You appear to be holding back these contracts because they are going to a diverse community. It's not a good look.
Speaker 42
Okay. Do you think Somalis should be tied to these crimes, should be deported, ma'am?
Speaker 4
If they're not here legally, yes. If they are citizens, they should go through the criminal justice process. And then there might be other categories, but I would have to better understand.
Speaker 42
I agree. So some of these, I mean, some of these folks are born here, and then they're or were naturalized, so they would have the constitutional protection thereof. So yes, ma'am. Sorry?
Speaker 6
So you've got quite a big bucket of people. Right? You've got people that were born here. That's a different situation. You have people that were naturalized, and then those are here illegally.
So you have to treat each one completely separately, with different paths.
Speaker 42
Ma'am, who is helping these folks navigate this complex grant application process? It seems to me that it's orchestrated. They've got, surely they've got a go to. We've always found that out in my dealings with state government. There was always somebody in there, a gatekeeper.
Speaker 4
Yes. My colleague, representative Hudson, could speak to it. There is a sort of a cottage industry of Somali consultants who helped us.
Speaker 5
Yeah. As I said in my opening statement, I've personally talked to two gentlemen who have worked as consultants for multiple entities receiving government benefits. And they don't believe they're doing anything wrong. And by the letter of the law, they might be legally acting, but they have created an industry out of benefits that were intended to lift people up, not to become a business.
Speaker 6
So that is something that we have heard repeatedly from whistleblowers and others, that there is, yes. I would call it a cottage industry of people that when you land on our soil, they are going to teach you all the different ways to sign up for multiple social service programs. There's also that. So they sign up for the max amount, which is probably why there's a report that just came out on December 13 that says that 81% of Somalis were receiving some sort of welfare in Minnesota.
Speaker 42
If you don't know the answer to this, just tell me, do you have any knowledge or heard any talk that the Somalis are directing any of these funds or American US tax dollars to Al terrorist organization?
Speaker 4
There have been past criminal convictions in this, and currently, we believe it's mostly happening indirectly as they send money to Somalia that Al Shabaab takes a cut.
Speaker 42
Y'all agree with that? We are good with that. Do you think the design of the social service programs incentivizes fraud and abuse?
Speaker 5
Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. When you are willing to hand over a sack of money to somebody on the assumption that they're going to provide a benevolent service and then you never check to see if they actually did, obviously, you're going to invite fraud, waste, abuse. Ma'am?
Speaker 6
Yeah. Absolutely. We just stood up a new program that we'll probably talk about in a little bit, which is the paid family leave program. It was literally designed by Democrats to have waste, fraud, and abuse on a grand scale.
Speaker 42
Okay. I'm gonna be out of time. Mister chairman, thank you. But I think America, we're sick of the hearings. We're sick of all this.
We need justice. We need convictions that these folks are guilty, and that needs to happen. America is sick of this. It needs to happen. Thank you all so much, and thank you for your bravery.
Speaker 43
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm so glad that committee Republicans finally want to talk about fraud and corruption and misuse of federal funds. This majority, though, has conveniently avoided this topic, but let's talk about the fraud in this administration. Let's start with president Trump accepting a $400,000,000 plane as a gift from Qatar, which the president announced he would transfer afterwards to his presidential library, basically to himself. And then the president announced a trillion-dollar economic agreement with Cutter and a security guarantee for them as well, an unprecedented one.
Next to Trump, Trump has also accepted hundreds of millions of dollars in undisclosed amounts for his ballroom project, including from companies who had civil and potentially criminal charges that were then dropped against them by this administration. And it's not just President Trump. Secretary Christie Nome has paid more than $200,000,000 in DHS ad contracts last fall and bypassed the normal competitive bidding process to award some of the funds to a former firm with deep ties to herself. And then secretary Nim also spent $170,000,000 of taxpayer dollars on new jets, including one for her own private travel. Family members of the president have entered into $2,000,000,000 in business deals with the UAE government and their government officials, while the US, like, conveniently then signed a major chips agreement with the UAE.
And then after his election, President Trump put $4,000,000,000 in shares of his media company in a trust to be run by his son. And then President Trump maintained ownership of his business empire while letting his family run the day-to-day. And then in September, Forbes estimated that President Trump's meme coin tokens were worth $709,000,000, and his World Liberty financial tokens were worth more than $338,000,000, but we don't know exactly how that happened. Then President Trump also stopped the enforcement of foreign bribery and fraud so that we could have American companies commit fraud abroad as well and not get prosecuted. President Trump also has made hundreds of visits to his own properties using taxpayer dollars, a lot of golfing included, and he used his presidency for personal profit to those properties.
In 2019, the GAO reported a trip to Mar-a-Lago costs over $3,000,000, and so if you add that up, that's a lot of taxpayer money being misused and a lot of fraud. The interim US attorney for DC ended the prosecution of a January 6 defendant after he represented that defendant in private practice. President Trump pardoned fraud. Sir Trevor Milton, a former CEO convicted of fraud in 2022, who, with a stroke of Trump's pen, escaped paying the $600,000,000 in restitution that prosecutors argued he should pay to people who have invested in his company. According to the Washington Post, at least 20 people who have received clemency from Trump were given forgiveness for financial penalties totaling tens of millions of dollars.
And then president Trump pardoned Binance founder Cheng Peng Zhao, a money launderer after getting support for a family crypto venture. And then President Trump also pardoned CEO Andrew Weidenhorne for stealing $47,000,000 of his own money from his own company, but had his case dropped after he donated to the president. And then President Trump also pardoned the founder of the electric vehicle company, Nicola, who was convicted of fraud and donated $1,800,000 to political committees supporting President Trump. And prior to his confirmation, Secretary Hegsayed's wife owned thousands of dollars in defense stocks, including companies that contract with the DOD. And DOD secretary Hegsayed brought his wife, who has defense company investments, to meetings with foreign defense officials at a NATO gathering where Ukraine policy was discussed.
And from recently passed funding legislation, US senators can claim over $500,000 in taxpayer dollars for phone record collections during the January 6 investigation. We just commemorated the 5th anniversary of January 6. And then borders are, Tom Holman dodged FBI background checks and accepted $50,000 from undercover agents acting as business people in exchange for government contracts. The DOJ investigation of that was shut down by this administration. President Trump wrote on his social media platform, Truth Social, this is a great time to buy DJT, less than 4 hours before lifting the tariffs he imposed days earlier, raising accusations of improprieties.
I'd say the accusations are probably well-founded. President Trump's FBI director has reportedly used taxpayer dollars to escort his girlfriend's friend home from partying in Nashville. RFK junior, the secretary, refused to fully cut ties to a vaccine lawsuit against a pharmaceutical company while serving as secretary, arranging that profits from the suit would go to his son. Saudi funded golf tournaments, moved events to Trump golf courses, providing a financial windfall for President Trump and his family as his administration sets Middle East policy. FBI director Akash Patel refused to divest from stock holdings in a company that controls a Chinese fast fashion firm accused of using forced labor and child labor, raising questions about the extent to which he enforced human trafficking laws.
President Trump's God bless the American Bible, which was a $3 production cost and $60 tag per copy, are printed in China. The Bible Hour is exempted from Trump's tariffs on China due to an exemption for religious materials. And I could keep going. Tom Kraus, the CEO of Cloud Software, was hired to work on a payment system at the treasury department, raising questions about competitive advantages for future contracts. A cloud software subsidiary previously donated 1 million dollars to Trump's inaugural fund, and the first directive issued by the US Department of Energy Secretary, Chris Wright, focused on advancing geothermal energy, which benefits Furvo and which his former company Liberty Energy had invested $10,000,000 in.
Commerce secretary, Luther.
Speaker 1
Timmins Times expired 40 seconds over, and I've been cutting members off.
Speaker 1
Okay. Chair recognizes, and you can submit anything you want to the record. We'll put it in there. Chair recognizes Mr. Bobert from Colorado.
Speaker 44
Thank you, mister chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Representative Robbins, did your fraud prevention committee raise formal concerns about suspected child care fraud to DHS or state leadership before federal indictments were issued?
Speaker 4
So the original federal indictments came before I was elected back in 2015 or so, and then we thought DHS had cleaned it up, and they did not. So we did a hearing last February, 2025, and we provided them a list of child care facilities we thought they should check out. My understanding is they have not, and so we're hoping that they will take this seriously and go investigate with on-site visits what's going on in these childcare facilities.
Speaker 44
And when you raised awareness, were the governor, governor Tim Waltz, and the attorney general made aware of these warnings?
Speaker 44
Did the state leadership fail to act promptly? I mean, it kinda sounds like they did if you still haven't received any information regarding these warnings.
Speaker 44
And representative Robbins, what recommendations from your committee were given and ignored?
Speaker 4
So in general, we always try to look at internal controls, and we've asked, I mean, it's not complicated. We want them to go make sure recipients are eligible, that providers are eligible, that services are actually being provided. Our staff has gone to many of these places, and so it's not just the next Shirley video. Our staff has gone and looked at this, and there is literally no one there during business hours. Some of the offices where we have the address are empty.
Like, there's no furniture. So they are not doing their job.
Speaker 44
Thank you. Mister Balu, does the Department of Justice have more resources to uncover fraud than a 20-year-old YouTuber?
Speaker 44
Are they still more than a 20 year old YouTuber with a cell phone camera?
Speaker 7
Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, the primary office that would be responsible for prosecuting public corruption, which is what it's being alleged today, has essentially been decimated. Most of
Speaker 44
I was there then. So why did the Department of Justice under the Biden administration ignore repeated attempts to uncover this massive fraudulent misuse of taxpayer dollars?
Speaker 7
As you may recall, the indictment actually happened during the Biden administration.
Speaker 44
And what action has been taken in the state to ensure that this isn't happening? Because we just saw dozens and dozens of centers that are receiving hundreds of millions of dollars collectively, that are not functionally operational.
Speaker 7
Yeah. Well, in 2022, under the Biden administration, over 70 people were indicted for exactly the scheme.
Speaker 44
So, mister Ballou, yes or no? A Medicaid program with low barriers to entry and minimal reimbursement requirements, that that's something that would be highly vulnerable to fraud, if oversight is weak. Correct?
Speaker 44
Mister Blue. Yes or no? When a program projected at $2,600,000 explodes to over $100,000,000 annually, that's a glaring red flag.
Speaker 7
The problem that we have is that all the oversight is at the federal level.
Speaker 7
The offices that are responsible for identifying those red flags are being defunded.
Speaker 44
Mister Blue, yes or no? When the same individuals or networks bill multiple Medicaid programs, that indicates organized fraud.
Speaker 44
Indicate fraud when you're getting the same individuals and networks that are billing multiple Medicaid programs?
Speaker 44
As they should be. Mister Balu, yes or no? Did the Biden administration cover this up for political reasons? Because uncovering fraud on this massive scale would have hurt the 2024 Democratic vice presidential candidate.
Speaker 7
Just so I understand, are you saying that the offices that uncover fraud should be defunded?
Speaker 44
I'm saying that these programs and the fraud that is taking place should be defunded.
Speaker 7
My understanding is what you were just saying is that the fraud program.
Speaker 44
things ballooning to 100000000. And if you could get back to the question I just asked, was this covered up because you thought it would hurt the 2024 Democrat presidential vice presidential candidate. Office investigates that kind of alleged public indemnity.
Speaker 44
In 2024, it was not defunded. And was this covered up to protect a vice-presidential candidate? Yes or no, Mister Baloo?
Speaker 44
Thank you, Mister Balu. I'm sorry that you're not answering questions before this committee correctly. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Who and whose name is Miss Hello. Okay. Thank you. Chair now recognizes Ms. Talib from Michigan.
Speaker 27
Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all so much for being here. I think as someone who has served in a state house, I know how important it is no matter if there's a d or r next to, you know, any name or anybody that's in charge, to make sure we root out any sort of fraud scams because we know it hurts everyone. But as a Muslim American, I gotta ask you all as a public servant, because, you know, Representative Robbins, Hudson, like, do you believe every Somali in Minnesota is engaged in fraud right now? Yes or no?
Let me start.
Speaker 6
No. No? Absolutely not. That's a ridiculous thing to say. I hope nobody says that.
Speaker 27
Yeah. Well, I just think it's really important as you all do the job that you need to do to also root out hate and divisive language that put, you know, you can imagine a child listening to that. You know what I mean? And they're seeing that. And I'm telling you as somebody that grew up Muslim in America, sometimes you're just listening to that and you feel othered.
You feel like you're less than, that maybe the things that are being said are true. And so, you know, mister chair, I have to submit for the record. This is, I know this is not your only source. I heard you. But, you know, unnamed source in a viral Minnesota Somali fraud video is a right-wing lobbyist who called Muslim demons.
But why is this more disturbing? And I don't know if any of you shared it, but I want you to know that who shared it despite this and all the falsehoods that my colleagues have already highlighted in a very, very shameful way, this video has been shared widely. I'm proudly by attorney general Pam Bondi, by FBI director Kashy Patel, by vice president JD Vance, who actually called the video, quote, far more useful journalism than any of our winners of the 2024 Pulitzer prizes. The videos create the video creators Nick Shirley has built this career. Right?
But on a lot of Islamophobia and dehumanization that I just feel as public servants, as you root out fraud and you have to, that you don't make it out that it's about the Somali community. It's about maybe not having the checks and balances, and maybe, again, wanting to do that. But I urge you all because this is the same person that also talked about the community I represent in the city of Dearborn. And, again, there are children watching, and I say this: that racist rhetoric, no matter faith or ethnicity, against any of our neighbors, is not gonna prevent fraud. Doing this will not prevent fraud.
We already saw, like, Trump administration using this story as pretext of sending 2,000 federal agents to target and harass the American community. I mean, do you agree with that? Sending troops in.
Speaker 4
I don't think ICE agents are troops, and ICE agents should be able to do their job anywhere in America.
Speaker 27
Federal agents. You're right. I meant federal agents, ma'am. Do you believe federal agents should come in and 2,000 federal agents should come into your state?
Speaker 4
I think ICE agents should be doing their job anywhere in America. It's their jurisdiction. And if there are.
Speaker 4
If there are criminals who need to be deported, they should be deported.
Speaker 27
Do you think it's really immigration enforcement? Because they're racially profane. They're gonna just stop people that look Somali or look Muslim or ethnic, and just harass them. And I'm telling you as somebody that for the first time ever, my mother in fifty years being here, and the sweetest woman, she'd feed anybody. She doesn't care if you're a Republican or Democrat.
She would make sure you're not hungry and fed, and she's carrying a passport for the first time in her life here because she knows, because she wears a hijab, she might be stopped by an ICE agent. Is that the kind of militarization? I know you won't get stopped, but somebody like my mother and somebody like your Somali American neighbors in Minnesota will be stopped in a way that is dehumanizing. They do it in front of kids. They don't care.
And I'm saying this to you and asking all of you, do your job, but don't allow your job and what you're doing to be utilized as a racist trope that all Somali Americans are criminals, that Muslims are demons. It's incredibly dangerous. And so, you know, represent Robinson, you one of the things that the collective punishment. Right? I mean, the fact that now I'm seeing the Trump administration say, okay.
We're gonna cut childcare and social services to California, Illinois, New York, Minnesota, and Colorado. Like, is that really the answer? Is that going to prevent fraud? Do you believe cutting 23,000 kids from childcare? Do you think that's going to prevent fraud?
Speaker 4
So my understanding is, it's not being cut. If they can document that the actual children are there and that they have attendance records, they will get the funding. So this is a misnomer saying it's all going to be cut. It's not true.
Speaker 6
I believe in the due process of law. And so back to your comment about your dear mother. Yeah. Because she wears a hajib, and she has to carry her passport. So I think that every person has value. Everyone is a child of God.
Right? And we may have a different name. But here's the thing, is that they all deserve respect. Absolutely. They all deserve kindness.
They all deserve the process of law and due process.
Speaker 27
And I see it among my communities, a very diverse community. We're calling people on other, you know, folks there no matter what their background is because we don't want any criminal activity or fraud because we know it hurts everybody. But I'm asking all of you, as you do your job, call out against the racist comments. Protect everyone in Minnesota, no matter their faith or ethnicity. So be careful in sharing these. I'm sorry, chairman.
This is important. Be careful as you do your job not to allow people to that you all are trying to root out fraud to be used as a ploy to go after Muslims in Somali America.
Speaker 1
Time's expired. Thank you. Chair, before I recognize Mister Cloud, Mister Gill has the United's consent request.
Speaker 8
Sure. Yep. This is from the Minnesota Reformer, Somali American former investigator. Why are you hearing about fraud in my community?
Speaker 1
Without objection to the order. Chair, now do you have another one? Okay. Chair recognizes Mr. Cloud from Texas for five minutes.
Speaker 45
Thank you, chairman, and I appreciate you holding this hearing. It's important, as you had mentioned at the outset, that we continue our work to uncover waste, fraud, and abuse, and especially in holding this hearing.
Speaker 45
Kinda brings some light to this issue that the media really, they were scooped. And so in a sense that they're having to cover this issue when, really, they should have been the ones to investigate and reveal this telling. No doubt there's fraud everywhere. When you're spending trillions of dollars, there's going to be pockets of fraud. But one of the things that's been revealing this year as we've worked through the DOGE process is uncovering the extent of the fraud, how it's been systemized, weaponized, and how we've really unveiled that it's the world's history's largest money laundering scheme.
Much of this should be a bipartisan issue to go after the waste, fraud, and abuse. But what we found out is much of the taxpayer funding is going to uphold leftist organizations and their campaign practices and the like. What's particularly telling about this issue in Minnesota isn't the fact that there's waste, fraud, and abuse. No doubt that's happening in a number of states, we need to continue the work clean it up. But the way that this has been systemized, institutionalized, and the corrupt and corrosive nature and even criminal coercion that went on from the governor's office and his administration is particularly troubling.
I think it's notable that the Biden administration was aware of this even as they tried to sell the Harris Waltz administration on the American people. And perhaps that's, you know, why we didn't see this come to light as we should. But representative Hudson, I appreciated something you said in your testimony in the sense that you said how the structure of these programs creates incentives that reliably produce the waste, fraud, and abuse across multiple service areas regardless of the program or intent. And this is kind of what we see oftentimes, that for good intentions maybe, Congress upstands these programs. Over the decades, what we've seen is they've expanded to where many of them almost end up being a system of waste, fraud, and abuse, with a veneer of care and concern for people.
And our job in congress is to help bring the tools to make sure that that doesn't happen. And so the ranking member said, you know, where fraud existed, we should look into it. We should hold people accountable. What we see coming from the left a lot of times is they're fine with the reactionary. We're fine in bringing prosecutions after the fact because the money's already gone out.
We're fine with prosecuting people who do ballot harvesting once the ballots are in the pot, and we can't separate them. But it's far better for us to prevent it. I'd like to talk to you, I'll start with you, mister Hudson. But if you don't wanna jump in, what controls states should be putting in, but really comes down to us in saying whatever federal dollars you are receiving, you should be getting these controls in place. So, could you speak to the institutionalization of this fraud and the schemes that are in place?
Maybe list some examples, and then speak to some of the controls that you would recommend that we take on legislatively to make sure states are doing their job?
Speaker 5
It's a very big question, and I'll try to be concise. So I haven't put a whole lot of thought into what Congress should do given my state legislative role. But I can tell you that states are primarily responsible for the administration of these programs, for setting up rules, for engaging in verification and compliance. And so what I imagine Congress can do is provide either incentive or some form of, for lack of a better term, punishment to states who fail to turn.
Speaker 45
States are actually incentivized, in a sense, to game the system against the American taxpayer.
Speaker 5
100%. Yeah. Absolutely. And so the program in the programs in Minnesota need to be redesigned from top to bottom. I mean, it needs to be like a demolition and a rebuild.
Because the way they're currently structured, I think most Americans, when they think about benefit programs, they think about, like, their neighbor and how they would help out their neighbor. But that's not how these programs work. It's not relational. It doesn't come with expectations, or gratitude, or an incentive to make your life better. It is set up to create a perpetual industry out of taking money from the taxpayers.
Speaker 4
Yes. I think one of the most practical things you can do is to require documentation from the recipient and from the provider. In Minnesota, most of these providers are set up and the recipients based on attestation. And nobody then goes and checks. Are they really eligible?
Are the services actually being provided? We had the housing stabilization program. They estimate 90% of it was fraud. Nobody checked if services were actually being provided. And I think you could also require repayment to the feds if there's fraud, and that would make states pay attention to administration if they had to repay the money if it was not spent on the proper services.
Speaker 45
Thank you. Those are two good tips. We'll hopefully stay in communication. My time's up.
Speaker 45
I know we opened up a can of worms there that could take another hour or two. Thank you, chairman. I yield back.
Speaker 28
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate today's hearing, and I am deeply concerned about the allegations of fraud that we are learning about around the disbursement of social services funding in Minnesota. This is fraud of the worst kind. It's literally taking food out of the mouths of hungry kids, so that people can enrich themselves. And just for your clarification, I've actually spent my career fighting fraud.
My first job at a law school was at the SEC. This was in the aftermath of another major set of frauds, the Enron and WorldCom accounting scandals, which, of course, were from the private sector, not the public sector. In congress, this has been my, just over a year at this point, but I was happy to sponsor HR 1156, a Republican led bill that came before this committee last year. And I think that we need aggressive enforcement and accountability when it comes to taxpayer dollars and their disbursement. That being said, I have concerns about this hearing as well as recent actions taken by the Trump administration.
And it's hard for me not to look at this hearing and the context in which it's taking place, and not see this as a partisan and racist hearing. And for the reasons mentioned by my colleague, we have not had other hearings when it comes to fraud that takes place in Republican-led states. We've not had hearings in this committee as far as I'm aware, and on another committee this year, as long as I've been in Congress, that go after those who are not Somali American. And so I hope you all can appreciate that by holding this hearing in isolation of any other hearings around oversight or fraud, that it looks like we're going after one community in one state when we know it's rampant. I guess my first question is to
Speaker 28
can raise your hand or if you don't wanna raise your hand, feel free to not raise your hand. But do you believe that fraud only takes place in democratically led states?
Speaker 28
No. And do you believe that fraud only takes place in the Somali communities?
Speaker 28
No. And would it surprise you to know that congress has not done hearings on either frauds that have taken place in republican led states or on frauds that have taken place in non Somalian communities. So this year, since I've taken Congress, this oversight committee in particular in the last session.
Speaker 28
Those are yes or no questions. I'm gonna reclaim my time. So thank you very much.
Speaker 28
And so I would just say that if this was a serious hearing, if this was a more serious attempt at oversight, we'd be looking across the board. And this is also hard to not take in the context of President Trump's announcement, I think, just yesterday that he would be illegally, I want would add, withholding funds for childcare and other purposes from states led by Democratic governors, including not only Minnesota, but my home state of California as well as several others. Kids are gonna go hungry in my district when we have not seen evidence of any kind of fraud on the scale we're talking about in California, in Colorado, in Illinois. And yet Donald Trump is withholding funds from those states.
Speaker 28
And so it looks like a very partisan effort here to go after blue states. $10,000,000,000 is being withheld. $10,000,000,000. And we already have struggling people right now trying to pay the bills because of rising health care costs, inflation, etc. It's cruel and vindictive.
It is also, I think, another example of the ways in which president Trump and this committee and this Republican led congress look increasingly like they're weaponizing the government to go after democrats and people they perceive as their political critics rather than going out and trying to address fraud in all ways, shapes, and forms. We know, for example, that there have been massive frauds that have been uncovered in places like Florida, Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. And I wanna highlight Mississippi because Mississippi has made a lot of news recently, because they've had the largest public corruption scandal in its history. And yet this committee has not addressed that one. We have not done a hearing on it.
There's been no letters or inquiries as far as I understand this year at my time in this in Congress. So this is quite problematic. It includes celebrities like Brett Favre, we all know about. And so it's very problematic to me that we are not actually doing this. Now, mister Baloo, you mentioned earlier that, you know, it's hard to uncover fraud or no-brat fraud or any of the motivations when we are getting rid of inspector general.
I think that was your implication. And I just wanna lean into that just a little bit, because I think what the Republicans have done in your state actually makes a lot of sense to me. Receiving tips from the public, investigating those tips, and then trying to provide transparency around your findings. And yet that is, mister Boulot, what inspectors general do. Right?
Speaker 28
And would it surprise you to know that this committee, which is tasked with overseeing the federal government, has done zero hearings since Donald Trump fired all the inspector generals at the beginning of his term?
Speaker 28
We really can't have a discussion around fraud, misuse of taxpayer dollars, or waste if we aren't talking about the fact that we just got rid of all the people who are supposed to oversee that. So I have one last question here.
Speaker 1
No. Your time's expired. You've gone over a minute. But you No. I is not inspiring the inspector general when we're when you admit there's massive fraud in Republican states too.
The IGs have failed.
Speaker 1
To keep funding these agencies when there's evidence that the money has been defrauded?
Speaker 28
Are we allowed to use this committee's resources to only go after fraud or states of one party?
Speaker 28
So are we gonna go after, are we looking at Mississippi the way that we're looking at Minnesota?
Speaker 1
We bring stuff forward. You have whistleblowers come forward. We will look after it in any case.
Speaker 46
I appreciate it. And, actually, I'd like to remind the committee that this party, this side of the aisle, has dedicated tremendous resources to rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse. In fact, the chairman set up a committee called DOGE that the other side of the aisle, you know, demonized and criticized in our efforts in which we had multiple hearings to identify waste, fraud, and abuse throughout all of the government agencies. And so I applaud the chairman and this side for the work that we've been doing. But, you know, sadly, Minnesota has become an example because of the extent of the waste and fraud.
It I have to ask. It must be embarrassing for the citizens of Minnesota, chairman Rob or chairwoman Robbins.
Speaker 4
So I'm not embarrassed to be from Minnesota, but I am frustrated and angry about the theft of taxpayer money.
Speaker 46
My I have a family that live in Minnesota. It is a wonderful state, and I know that they are angry, that they're very frustrated. So I think that we talk about the amount of money that's being wasted, $9,000,000,000. That seems like an abstract amount. But let's break that down.
$9,000,000,000 stolen from less than 6,000,000 citizens of Minnesota. Correct? That's per individual. Imagine, right, you know, every citizen of Minnesota, your bank account, suddenly someone took $1,500 out of your bank account. Every taxpayer, there's around 3,000,000 citizens or taxpayers of Minnesota.
Every taxpayer just had $3,000 stolen from their bank account. How does that feel to a citizen of Minnesota?
Speaker 4
Minnesotans are so frustrated because not only have we had that money stolen from us, but we had an $18,000,000,000 surplus that Tim Wall spent, then raised our taxes $11,000,000,000 and left us with a $6,000,000,000 deficit. So we've had the fiscal mismanagement on top of the fraud, and Minnesotans are completely fed up.
Speaker 46
You know, in Missouri, there's also an opportunity cost to all that money. So in Missouri, we just, you know, greenlit a project to add more lanes to I-70, which runs from one end of the state to the other. And it was only less than $3,000,000,000. You could imagine people in Minnesota could enjoy adding additional lanes on interstates, on three of your interstates, I 35, I 94, I 90. Don't you think the people of Minnesota would love to have wider lanes or more lanes added to their highway infrastructure?
Speaker 4
They absolutely would. But even if we stayed in the social service realm, there was $104,000,000 in one year that was fraudulent in the housing stabilization service. If we could have taken that $104000000 and put it into supportive housing, we would have done a lot to solve the homelessness problem. So every time these dollars are fraudulently stolen, it is a huge opportunity cost for Minnesotans.
Speaker 46
Absolutely. And you've been sounding the alarm for quite some time. Why is it taken until 2025 for these to fully come to light?
Speaker 4
The fraud prevention and state oversight committee was formed in 2025 once we took had a tie in the house.
Speaker 46
So when rep you guys the Republican took majority, you finally or you were able to actually root out the waste fraud abuse when in Minnesota, which is why we now know about it.
Speaker 4
Yes. We're in a tie technically, but we were able to negotiate this as part of the power sharing agreement.
Speaker 46
I seek unanimous consent, mister chairman, to enter into the record an article from the New York Post, former homeland security agent claims prosecutors ignored Minnesota daycare fraud cases. They just.
Speaker 46
Thank you. So there have been investigations going on for some time. I understand you don't report them or have really kind of bypassed the state agencies. You report directly to the federal government. Can you elaborate on why that is?
It's pretty obvious why. But.
Speaker 4
So when my staff, we have a very small staff. We have one researcher on our committee, and then we as members also do a lot of our own research. And when we get an investigation that is credible, we do as much research as we can. But as I said earlier, we don't have access to bank records, health records, or the state payment system. And so based on that, when we get something that's credible, we turn it over to the office of the legislative auditor and to the US attorney's office.
I have been accused of hiding the whistleblower data from the department. But when the department comes to hearings, we provide documents every time I flagged 72 child care centers. We've given them lists of all of the housing, multiple addresses where there's more than five providers, sometimes up to 22 providers at the same address. They've done nothing with it. But what I don't give them is the whistleblower information, because I'm protecting our whistleblowers in Minnesota.
They finally are stepping up, and I have their back.
Speaker 46
Good for you. And I appreciate you for doing that. And then finally, with that, I'll and I have more articles to submit for the record, mister chairman.
Speaker 1
Do you wanna submit them now, or are you gonna submit them? Okay. Go proceed.
Speaker 46
Okay. One is an article produced was about child childcare welfare fraud. Without objection to the order. A report produced by the office of legislative auditor of Minnesota childcare assistance programs assessment of fraud allegations. Without objection to the order.
And then from the Minnesota House Research Group, the child care assistance programs and the fraud within.
Speaker 1
Without objection, so ordered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chair now recognizes Mr. Frost from Florida.
Speaker 40
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is very important that we eliminate fraud in our social programs, and I'm glad that Governor Walls has taken real concrete steps in Minnesota to combat fraud, like signing legislation to strengthen the state's agencies' ability to detect, prevent, and prosecute fraud, and establishing a statewide inspector general coordinating council, and appointing an independent state auditor to investigate claims. Mister Balu, how will these actions help uncover and prevent fraud in the state?
Speaker 7
Well, it's the funding and staffing that's necessary to uncover fraud that's happening at a state level, but that staffing is not being mirrored at.
Speaker 7
Well, bluntly, most of the enforcement mechanisms for going after white-collar crime are being decimated, especially in the Justice Department, but also the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Speaker 40
Of course. As you pointed out, you know, it's important for governors to play a big role in fighting fraud in their state. I wanna give you a hypothetical. Let's say that you have a state's governor that funnels millions of dollars from the state's money over to the governor's wife's nonprofit. Let's say then that nonprofit takes that same money and gives it to political action committees that help her husband's causes.
Would that be worth investigating? Absolutely. What say the rest of the witnesses? And that hypothetical, is that something we should also investigate?
Speaker 6
So I don't think we're in a place to talk about hypotheticals, but thank you for the question.
Speaker 40
The rest of the witnesses, you don't think we should investigate fraud? What do you think?
Speaker 5
I think I came here prepared to talk about the fraud that's taking place in my state.
Speaker 5
Contain my testimony to the purpose of the agreement. Representative Robbins?
Speaker 4
I think we should investigate credible allegations of fraud wherever they are, but we don't.
Speaker 40
Thank you. I 100% agree with you, representative. And, actually, you know, I wanna talk about something that's really important because my colleague, Dave Min, just brought up something. And, you know, chair Comer, you had said if there's credible allegations, if there's evidence we should look into, and I have something for us to look into. This is not a hypothetical.
This happened in the state of Florida. Governor Ron DeSantis, Casey DeSantis, and the Hope Florida Foundation have been subject to a bipartisan investigation and now a criminal investigation for this exact same thing I just talked about. So if we're gonna be here going state by state in this committee talking about fraud, I'm okay with doing that. But let's make sure it's not just democratic states like Dave Minh said, and let's also look at republican-led states as well. Because what happened in my state of Florida is $10,000,000 of Medicaid money was funneled to the governor's wife's nonprofit.
Then that nonprofit took that money and gave it to political action committees helping her husband. I'd like to insert for the record a unanimous consent for The New York Times. Why did a charity tied to Casey DeSantis suddenly get a $10,000,000 boost?
Speaker 1
In Thomas? Get the stuff to me, and we'll definitely look at $10,000,000. We're talking about 9,000,000,000 today.
Speaker 40
Yeah. I'll get it to you. I'll get it to you. Definitely a lower amount of money, but $10,000,000 of Medicaid money going to be funneled from taxpayer Floridians to political action committees, is fraud and is criminal. And this is a bipartisan investigation looked at by both Democrats and Republicans, and I definitely expect this committee to do the same thing.
And I have one more thing I wanna talk about that Representative Ansari brought up. President Trump reposted conspiracy theories on his Truth Social account about the murder of Minnesota state legislators, Mark and Melissa Hortman, that suggest that Minnesota governor Tim Walls had the Hortmans assassinated. Governor Walls says this behavior will get more innocent people killed, and the Hortman children have come out on the president and called on the president to take the statements down. I think it is very important that we are clear that we condemn this type of behavior. So I just wanna go down the line and hear if you agree with the Hortman children that we should condemn, and we ask the president to take down this post.
Mister Bayou? Yes. Representative.
Speaker 6
So as the longest serving member on this panel of Minnesota, I am so offended that anybody would accuse anybody of the assassination other than Lance Bolter, because this was a deep scar in the state of Minnesota and all of us personally. I served with Melissa Horner my entire 15 years,
Speaker 40
Do you agree that we should call in the president, take down the post? That's it.
Speaker 6
I said what I said. I think that it's beyond the pale that anybody talked about.
Speaker 40
Representative Hudson, we'll move on. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. We'll move on. You can't call the president.
Take down this post. We'll move on to Representative Hudson.
Speaker 5
I cannot deceive the committee by giving it a binary. I have spoken of this many times. I have renounced the content of these ridiculous conspiracy theories, I've called them ridiculous on multiple.
Speaker 40
That's great. You think it's appropriate for the president of the United States?
Speaker 40
My I'll reclaim my time. Time. Fantasizing about community republics. I will reclaim my time.
Speaker 40
Your mothers are talking. I'm not playing this game. Your gentlemen will stop talking on my time.
Speaker 1
Order of order. Order. We'll give you a few seconds to close, mister Frost.
Speaker 40
I have to comment on this because this is not silly. It is not silly to expect good behavior from the people at the highest levels of our government. You expect K Jones? Not your time.
Speaker 40
Not your time. Including the president of the United States. I yield back.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen, yields back. Chair recognized Mr. Timmons from South Carolina. Is that right? Yeah. Mr. Timmons.
Speaker 9
Mister chairman, we're only one weekend into 2026, and the Democrats are having a tough year. Here we are. This should not be a partisan issue. We've uncovered 9,000,000,000 in fraud. It doesn't matter if it's a red state or a blue state.
That's $9,000,000,000. And you gotta remember the purpose of these social safety nets is to help people that need help. And when we have that amount of fraud, it undermines the purpose of the social safety nets. The people that want and need the benefits that they are deserving of because they're American citizens. They're unable to get them because people are stealing money.
And it is even somewhat comical because just a few days ago when the Trump administration executed the most incredible, I mean, they technically executed a warrant on Maduro, a narcoterrorist. They were able to not have a single casualty from our military. They limited collateral damage, and they executed what is truly just a perfect tactical military operation. And the Democrats have gone ballistic over it. This man has had warrants out for his arrest for 5 years.
He's had a $25,000,000 bounty, which was increased to a $50,000,000 bounty. This is not a partisan issue. He has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans over the last few decades because he's sent drugs here for Americans to use. They've died from it. This is not a partisan issue. Venezuela was a huge step in the right direction.
Peace through strength works. We gotta get together, and we gotta work on the issues that the American people want us to work on. And seeking out ways for abuse, seeking out $9,000,000,000 in theft of social safety net money is something that should not be partisan. And the fact that my colleagues across the aisle are going ballistic over these ridiculous ancillary issues and trying to cachet over what should not be a partisan issue is just ridiculous. So get it together.
We need to do the job that the American people sent us here to do. I wanna actually point something out. So, representative Robbins, my understanding is that around $250,000,000 in fraud was found in the four years of the Biden administration. There were a number of indictments, dozens of indictments. Is that number about right?
Speaker 4
Yes. I think now they're up to about 310,000,000 for Feeding Our Future.
Speaker 9
Alright. Thank you. So in the last year, we're at 9,000,000,000. Is that the number you got?
Speaker 4
Yes. The US Attorney has estimated that the total fraud in the Medicaid portion, which has nothing to do with feeding our future, so it's on top of that $310,000,000, is half of it fraud.
Speaker 9
Thank you. Mister Billy, you see here, I'm going with this? So you're saying that we have had, we've decimated the budget of the IGs, which, by the way, weren't doing their jobs because we've uncovered, I mean, $8.5886 more dollars in fraud with less resources. So how do you explain your testimony earlier that we've decimated the entities that are designed to investigate fraud when we've uncovered exponentially more fraud with less resources? How do you explain that?
Speaker 7
You know, what we've been talking about today is not just regular fraud, but public corruption.
Speaker 9
So this is what we have now, is we are not having a hearing on public corruption. We are having a hearing on $9,000,000,000 in fraud associated with Minnesota social safety nets. And so you keep pushing back on that. That you keep pushing back on this narrative that we should be seeking out waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere by saying that the Trump administration has decimated the entities that are designed to seek out waste, fraud, and abuse. And yet those same entities have uncovered exponentially more fraud.
The problem.
Speaker 9
to very efficient. You know, logic integrity section has been. Your logic is flawed, you know, your logic is flawed. Just wanted to point it out. It's okay. So I guess I wanna get to this.
We have a limited amount of money. We have 37000000000000 in debt. We run a $2,000,000,000,000 annual deficit. And we have spent much of this year seeking out waste, fraud, abuse, trying to get our fiscal house back in order because we're running out of time. So this cannot be a partisan issue.
We cannot solve these problems without a bipartisan approach. So I have a bill that I filed. It's called the TABS Act. And what it does is it uses technology to confirm income eligibility. So 1.5 trillion dollars every year go to social safety nets that are means tested.
Meaning, depending on where you live, if you make too much money, you don't get them. And so if we use technology to real-time verify, you can actually give the social safety net to the person that's seeking it way faster, in most cases immediately, and then you can remove them from that social safety net in real time. In the big beautiful bill, we changed it from once a year to twice a year, and that saved $10,000,000,000. If you do it in real time, you are gonna save 20% of the money. So if you extrapolate that over 10 years, it's about 2 and a half trillion dollars in savings, for means tested social safety nets.
These are the kind of things we need to be doing. This is not a partisan issue. We all agree that people fall on hard times, and we need to help them up. We need to help them up. But if we have $9,000,000,000 in fraud in Minnesota, imagine what we have in California, imagine what we have in New York, imagine what we have across this country, and we've gotta get a handle on it because we're running out of time.
We can't keep spending money we don't have. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Speaker 1
Thank you. Gentlemen, yields back. Chair, now recognize Mr. Palmer from Alabama.
Speaker 48
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Miss Robbins, how long do you think the corrupt activity has been going on in Minnesota?
Speaker 4
We have whistleblower reports dating back from 2013 or 2014, so through the Dayton administration and the Wallace administration.
Speaker 48
Over a decade. Mhmm. K. Why is it that we're just now seeing, having this fully uncovered, and I'm not sure it's fully uncovered yet. Why is it, I mean, you've got an attorney general, you've got a governor who claims to be purest driven snow, and you get a lot of snow in Minnesota.
Why is it just now coming out?
Speaker 4
Well, because it's been a failure of the administration, particularly our Office of Management and Budget, who has responsibility constitutionally for this, and they have not been doing their job. But because we were able to create this oversight committee, it's the first time in the history of our legislature we've had an oversight committee.
Speaker 48
Would you agree that, with this fraud going on over a decade and, basically, the lackadaisical or disinterested approach from your government, that that's why it's necessary for the oversight committee here in congress to take this up. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 4
I do. We're grateful for your help because we don't have the resources, and we don't have subpoena power, and some of the tools that you have.
Speaker 48
Well, the reason that, one of the reasons that I don't think we need to bring Mississippi in here is because they've been very aggressive in their investigation and prosecution, along with the US attorney's office. And I just wanna point that out, mister chairman, that we wouldn't be sitting here today asking the questions that we're having to ask if the governor of Minnesota, Waltz, and the attorney general and the other people that are responsible for oversight had acted expeditiously in investigating this themselves. So that's why we're here, isn't it?
Speaker 48
I appreciate all of you being here. The charges and reports of fraudulent autism centers in Minnesota are shocking to me. Could you describe to us your committee's findings in this area, Miss Robbins, and how these fraudsters were operating?
Speaker 4
It is really shocking. So there were autism centers that our Medicaid waiver program, and people were getting paid kickbacks to sign their kids up to participate in the autism center so they could bill Medicaid. And these children didn't necessarily have autism. We have substantiated, court documented in by the US attorney how the parents were getting their kids falsely diagnosed with autism so that then they could get a kickback to participate in billing Medicaid for autism.
Speaker 48
services. Not just the fraud in terms of money. It's the abuse of children by their parents that has taken place here. And they were able to defraud the EDIBI program millions.
Speaker 4
Yes. I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg in understanding it. There have been a handful of charges, but we expect more.
Speaker 48
Mister Hudson, do you think general Ellison or governor Waltz was aware of the fraud prior to the exposure that has been brought now?
Speaker 5
Oh, there's simply no doubt. I mean, again, referring to the exhibit that I submitted with my testimony, 2,500 pages of OLA reports citing all of the red flags and risk factors, and they did not take appropriate action.
Speaker 48
Why do you think they did that, miss, mister Hudson and miss Rick? She's about to hit her button. So go ahead.
Speaker 5
In my opinion, the simplest answer, the most logical answer is that they didn't want to know the answer to the question because the answer to the question was gonna require them to take action against one of their favorite political.
Speaker 5
Yeah. That has been alleged, and I hope the evidence is entered into the record through the investigation and prosecution.
Speaker 48
Well, it's gonna be a thorough investigation, miss, Eric. You were about to say something.
Speaker 6
Just really quickly. So I think it should be noted. We haven't said this yet, but Jim Nobles was our legislative auditor for 38 years, and he did an article or he did a statement in the Star Tribune on 12/29/2025. And he said, literally, all the state needed to do was implement standard financial controls and oversight. Why did the Walls administration not do that?
It's still a mystery, but it's disturbing.
Speaker 48
Okay. Mister chairman, I think we just heard full justification for why we're having to have this hearing, why we'll have to follow up, because, clearly, the state of Minnesota had almost a lack of interest, maybe even an interest in covering it up. And so with that, mister chairman, I yield back and look forward to further investigating this.
Speaker 1
Thank you, Mr. Palmer. I think the evidence is clear as well. Chairman, recognize Miss Luna from Florida.
Speaker 10
Thank you, Chairman Palmer. Before I get to the questioning of some of our witnesses today, and thank you again for being here, I would like to make a motion to subpoena journalist Seth Harp for leaking classified information, including doxing a Delta Force commander on Operation Absolute Resolve, which liberated the Venezuelan people and brought a terrorist dictator to the United States to face justice for his crimes against American citizens.
Speaker 1
A motion has been made. Another motion by Miss Luna. The committee will hold this motion in abeyance till the end of today's hearing. Miss the committee, will you now proceed? Chair recognizes.
Speaker 10
I can submit that. If I can just write after this, I'll totally submit that to you guys because I have some other motions that we're voting on at the end. This is a great motion in writing. We want everyone on record for this one. Thank you.
Speaker 10
Thank you, Chairman Comer. Honorable Robbins, based on your record before your committee, when did Governor Walls first become aware of widespread fraud in Minnesota social service programs?
Speaker 4
I would assume that he has been aware of it since he ran for office as governor in 2018.
Speaker 10
By 2017, DHS investigators warned CCAP fraud could exceed 50%. What, was that information relayed to the governor's office?
Speaker 10
Thank you, ma'am. By 2020, state officials knew feeding our future invoices were fraudulent. We know that payments continue to the AG's knowledge. Did they continue to govern the governor's knowledge as well?
Speaker 10
Attorney General Ellison agreed on tape to fight Minnesota's own Department of Human and Health Services in exchange for Somali political and financial support. In your personal opinion, do you believe it is a possibility that Governor Walls also made that personal deal or that he at least knew about the attorney general's agreement?
Speaker 10
I don't wanna rehash what you guys have spent hours answering. We know that there's a big issue with fraud in Minnesota. So on a number of things, I'd first like to point out, thank you for being here today. But because of your testimony and because of some of the evidence that we've seen brought forward, as well as, I'm sure, the fact that this committee, I assume, at chairman Comer's direction, will be soon subpoenaing A. Ellison, I would like to make criminal referrals regarding Governor Walls as well as A.
G. Ellison. As you know, US code 371 and US code 2, which deals with criminalized conspiracies to defraud The United States and establishes liability for individuals who knowingly aid or abet the commission of a federal offense. Includes willing full blindness or deliberate inaction where duties to act exist. So I will be referring to them later on today.
Now aside from that, I do just wanna point out that there is a statute that you can denaturalize citizens if their applications were fraudulent, and also too if within 10 years of their naturalization, that they committed fraud in the US. And so I take this very seriously, and it's very unfortunate that these people chose to do this, because being an American citizen is not a right. It's a privilege, especially if you were not born here. And so with that idea in mind, I would like to say that these criminals took advantage of the very country that gave them refuge. They do not deserve the privilege of remaining here, and, frankly, they don't deserve to even be imprisoned here, which is why as the chairman of the El Salvador caucus, I work very strongly with President Bukele, and we also know that CCOT has proven to be a great facility to house people that are denaturalized and deemed not worthy of US citizenship, and I will be making referrals for those individuals if they are found guilty.
Thank you for being here today. Chairman, I yield my time.
Speaker 1
So we've talked a lot about Governor Walts. I think you all have done a tremendous job codifying the fact that there's a massive amount of waste in Minnesota. This has been taking place for years, and yet nothing has been done. The Democrats wanna keep spending more money. They're like, why are we cutting off funding temporarily?
We need to spend more money. Throw more money at the problem. That is not working. The American people aren't gonna have it. Thank you all for being here today to talk about this.
I know it takes a lot of courage, and I'm sure you're probably getting threats from certain people that have benefited from this and others that are misinformed by the, you know, some of the my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. We've talked about Walt. You've stated that Walt has been well aware of this, but we haven't talked a lot about Attorney General Allison. Very quickly, do you all have anything to add about his knowledge? Was he aware of this?
Go ahead. Yes, sir.
Speaker 6
Thank you. I actually had that document in front of me that I wanted to share. So this is from a press release that we actually confronted him with when we had a hearing, and he was in front of us. And the press release is from 09/26/2022, and this is from a press release from his office. And it says, Minnesota attorney general Keith Ellison and his office have been deeply involved for two years in holding Feeding Our Future accountable.
Now the tape that we've been talking about as well, where he said he would go to bat for the fraudsters against state agencies, which, by the way, were his clients, happened one year prior to this press release. So if he had been working to oust the fraudsters for feeding our future, he would have known who they were at the time of that meeting. He claimed in front of us that he did not know who they were. That was his reason to meet with them. And by the way, I would say that he did not meet him in his official office, which is highly suspect.
He met with him at a strip mall, I think, something like that.
Speaker 1
K. Well, we've invited him to be at our next hearing on this. If he doesn't respond very soon, he will be receiving a subpoena to be here at the next hearing. And we look forward to working with you and any other whistleblower who wants to come forward to ask mister Ellison specific questions. Now, chairman, I recognize mister Gil for, you know, his consent.
Speaker 8
I've got a unanimous consent request to enter into the record. Former legislative auditor: is the Walt administration finally awake about fraud? Without objection, ordered.
Speaker 1
Chair now recognizes mister. Are you ready, mister Langworthy? Or no. So, Mr. McGuire. Chair, I recognize Mister McGuire from Virginia for five minutes.
Speaker 29
Thank you, mister chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today and for your tireless work on your committee to investigate and sound the alarm for fraud in your state. After receiving a mandate from the American people and taking office, President Trump and this administration have worked tirelessly to root out and put an end to waste, fraud, and abuse. And our federal government, the recent child care fraud that has come to light in Minnesota is just the latest example of why the American people deserve to have oversight of how their taxpayer dollars are being spent. Talking with constituents in my district, I had one guy say to me. He said, John, why should we even pay taxes?
The signal that we're getting around our country is that you do everything right and you pay your taxes, and these folks are buying homes in foreign countries. These fraudsters are stealing from the American people, we the people. And one constituent said, we're not paying taxes. We're paying criminals. We need to know where our taxpayer dollars are going.
The 20,000,000 or so illegal aliens that came into our country have come here to break the camel the donkey's back. You know, if you wanna break a donkey's back, you keep loading it on until his back breaks. And we're sick and tired of the waste, fraud, and abuse. For some reason, it seems like our friends on the other side of the aisle partner with the fraudsters and not those people that are identifying the fraud. You may remember during the summer of love when they were burning our cities for 80 days.
Instead of supporting the police, they wanted to defund the police and use their taxpayer dollars to bail them out of jail so they continue burning our cities. Makes no sense. Recently, we got Maduro out of his country to stand trial for killing and terrorizing thousands of American citizens. And instead of telling the military what a great job they did, they had protests around the country for Maduro. And by the way, I had a friend at the airport in Buenos Aires.
When it was announced, the entire airport cheered. And people in Venezuela said that they've been eating out of trash cans, and family members got into prostitution because their family was starving there, trying to survive. As a Navy SEAL veteran, I served in Venezuela during the nineties, and it was one of the most prosperous, strongest economic countries, safest places in South America, and they've ruined it. So, anyway, the people are sick and tired of the waste, fraud, and abuse. In reference to the most recent child care fraud scandal coming to light by a spokesperson for Governor Walt, the governor has worked for years to crack down on fraud and asked the state legislature for more authority to take aggression on this action.
He has strengthened oversight. Miss Robinson, mister Hudson, and mister Rorick as members of the Fraud Protection and State Agency Oversight Committee, do you agree that governor Walt has strengthened oversight in the state of Minnesota? Yes or no?
Speaker 4
No. He belatedly took action this fall because of the enormous pressure that is coming to bear, but his agencies always had the authority that he trumpeted now.
Speaker 5
No. He simplified the problem by pretending that you can solve it by appointing somebody to look at it. This needs systemic reform.
Speaker 29
Yeah. I heard through testimony that it was career suicide to speak up. But, Miss Robinson, you've been very vocal about the mistreatment of whistleblowers by Governor Waltz. Can you speak to some of the ways that Governor Waltz and his administration have retaliated against whistleblowers?
Speaker 4
Yes. I've met with many whistleblowers who have spoken about how they were told that they would be demoted or reassigned. I know of people who were reassigned. We also know that they were surveilled in their place of work when people thought they might be the, quote, leaker. Their email and their chat functions were surveilled electronically for words like fraud or whistleblower or compliance or overbilling.
So they are under a great deal of stress in the Department of Human Services, and we are grateful for the whistleblowers who have spoken out to us.
Speaker 29
So based on all of your knowledge about this scandal or this fraud in Minnesota, I think it's the tip of the iceberg. We're like $37,000,000,000,000 in debt. And now I don't know what it is about Somali, but apparently, they're using that for Somali day care centers in Washington state now. And it's come to light that there's some day care center fraud in Ohio as well associated with Somali. I think we're just the tip of the iceberg, and there's waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere.
Maybe a big chunk of our national debt comes from waste, fraud, and abuse. I don't care if it's a red state or a blue state. We need to have oversight. We need to protect the American people's taxpayer dollars. The childcare fraud brought in by Nick Shirley is just the latest scandal.
In 2022, federal prosecutors charged 47 defendants, the majority of whom were from the Minnesota Somalia community, for the role they played in feeding our future. Are they still in power in Minnesota?
Speaker 4
So that program was a COVID-era child nutrition program, and that is over. But there's ongoing child nutrition programs that could be fraudulent. So I think they're still working their way through the Feeding Our Future case, but I think there will be a need for ongoing oversight of child nutrition programs.
Speaker 1
Now recognizes Mister Langworthy from Buffalo, New York. Okay. Well, chair recognizes, we will go to miss is mister Stauber? Are you ready, prepared, or miss, Fishbok?
Speaker 1
Okay. Chair, recognize we're gonna get to our wave ons, and we may have a few more that will come in. We have a few more Republicans who haven't asked questions yet. But, misrecognized for five minutes.
Speaker 35
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And before I begin my remarks, I wanna enter into the record an email shared by DHS whistleblowers. The email was written by a senior DHS official and sent to other DHS leaders. In the email, the DHS official talks about using military intelligence resources to track down whistleblower's exact location. And this issue, and I believe this email was alluded to by Representative Rarek in her testimony.
Speaker 35
Thank you so much. And I have one more, and I ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record. An article titled Minnesota government whistleblowers claimed they were electronically surveilled, had promotions denied, appeared in the New York Post, dated 01/03/2020.
Speaker 35
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And first, I would like to say thank you, mister chair, for allowing us to weigh on. This is an incredibly important issue in our state and across the country. And, it's something that comes up all the time when we're out in the district. And so I think and I thank all of the legislators for being here, and for all of your work that you do, in order to expose this and dig into it and really figure out what's going on.
I think it was Mr. Burlington who asked if we were embarrassed. But I’m not embarrassed to be from Minnesota. What I am is really sad that this is happening, and this is what Minnesota is known for now, this horrible fraud. Because there are wonderful things that Minnesota does have to offer. And so, as a lifelong Minnesotan, it makes me sad that this is what we're having to talk about.
And while some may wanna downplay this fraud, I want to be clear. This is an explicit and egregious cover-up on the theft of taxpayer dollars. And hundreds of millions stolen from programs intended to help feed children, provide housing, provide child care, even help individuals with autism. And we also have reports that some of this funding is going to terrorist organizations like was mentioned earlier. Democrats have been in charge in Minnesota for years.
And I was in the Minnesota legislature, I know. And they specifically wrote and passed legislation that reduced oversight when handing out federal funds. Democrats seized on COVID, in particular, to yank back fraud protections just so that they could hand out money as fast as possible. That was the whole thing. That was the mantra during COVID: we've gotta get it out fast, so we can't have all these regulations and checks and balances on them.
Unfortunately, though this problem isn't new, and it wasn't just from COVID in Minnesota. Whistleblowers report that they've been making reports for years. The Democrat leadership at the state level in Minnesota has been actively suppressing whistleblowers. And I think some of the testimony that you've all given today is pointing that out. And that's not an opinion.
It is a fact. It's a fact. So I'm gonna ask. Maybe we're gonna go over some of this a little once again, but I wanna make sure that everybody understands that there's a clear answer. Representative Rarek, the tweet, where did my sign go?
I have a sign. Maybe we don't. But there's an account that is working, that is, I believe, from the whistleblowers. And I just wanted to note, there we go. Thank you.
This behind me is the account, is it run by one whistleblower?
Speaker 6
Madam, congressman, no. It actually is comprised of over 1,000 state employees across multiple state agencies.
Speaker 35
So this is not just a couple of people. This is a lot of people bringing this to light. And were the whistleblowers ever made to feel unsafe on their attempts to report fraud?
Speaker 6
Yes. Absolutely. I can give you two quotes that they have in the seven-page document that was submitted for this committee hearing. Two things that they said is think about your home, and what if you lose your job? So these are things said to whistleblowers.
Second thing was we need information about where your kids go to school and where their bus stops are.
Speaker 35
And, representative, this is incredible stuff. And I know you mentioned it before, but I do think it is worth repeating because we had whistle blowers. This could have been happening, but there has been Democrat administration after Democrat administration, including walls and including the newer. They have not addressed these things. And they have not said, hey, whistleblowers, we believe you, and we're going to do something about it.
And so that's the concern. And I just want to, I am running low on time, but I wanted to just ask Representative Robinson. I'm sorry, mister Hudson, but you've had some really good moments today. So I'll.
Speaker 35
As chair of the committee, if these claims of retaliatory action are true, then it violates the law. So if these claims are true, then a state agency is violating our own state whistleblower laws. Is that correct?
Speaker 4
So the whistle, sorry. So the whistleblower statute is for civil penalties. There is no criminal penalty for whistleblower retaliation in the statute currently, but we are looking at that for the next session. But that's why when people say, why haven't these people who've retaliated against the whistleblower been prosecuted? It's because there is no criminal penalty in the statute.
Speaker 35
Has there been anything by the attorney general's office? And this is maybe a question that I'll ask if he comes. Anything by the attorney general's office that would deal with that?
Speaker 4
No. We passed a law this session to expand whistleblower protection because prior to this session, they could only report up through their supervisor or to the state attorney general. And when they did, they were either ghosted or they were retaliated against. So we expanded it. So now they can report to legislators, and they can report to law enforcement.
And that's how we got this just deluge of whistleblower reports, because now they have somewhere safe to report.
Speaker 35
And I you have been very, indulgent. And I'll just say, after 15 years of Democrat administration in Minnesota, this massive fraud is coming to an end because we are going to get to it. And I appreciate the work that you have done on your committee, and we will do whatever we can to continue to bring it to light and prosecute those folks involved. So thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I thank you very much for.
Speaker 36
Mister Schraff, unanimous consent to enter into the record this May 2025 report from the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs entitled, Undermining the Watchdogs, the 19 independent inspectors general fired by President Trump uncovered billions in fraud, waste, and abuse.
Speaker 1
Without objections, ordered. Alright. Our next Minnesota wave on is Mister Finstad from Minnesota.
Speaker 49
Thank you, Chairman Comer. Thank you for holding this important hearing today, and thank you to our great Minnesota legislators for being here. God bless you and your work. It's been so needed, and you have amplified and created such a voice and opportunity for us to get to the bottom of this. So, thank you.
Governor Wall's incompetence has put a spotlight on our state by enabling rampant fraud across federally funded, state-administered programs. And for those that aren't from Minnesota, in Minnesota, the Democrat party goes by the DFL, Democrat Farmer Labor. Well, I'll tell you what. They kicked the farmer out a long time ago, and that F now stands for fraud. And that is wholly owned by Governor Walls, Lieutenant Governor Flanagan.
And it's on them, and it will be on them forever. Minnesota taxpayers have had more than $9,000,000,000, and counting, taken from their pockets, yet the Walls administration has failed to take meaningful action to stop this. Since the Feeding Our Future scandal came to light, not a single individual responsible for ensuring accountability to these federally funded programs has been fired. Not a single. This would not stand a second in the private sector.
I don't care if you're a bank CEO. I don't care if you're a greeter at Walmart. You would not have your job with the incompetence that Governor Walls has displayed in Minnesota. Since I was first elected in 2022, I've joined my Republican colleagues in the congressional delegation, sending numerous letters to Governor Walls and
Speaker 49
Administration to expose the lawlessness occurring in our state, with no response. The Minnesota state legislators here testifying have been on the front lines working to combat this failure, and there is, and governor Walls' failure to responsibly steward over the $9,000,000,000 in taxpayer money. I thank you for appearing here today. With that being said, you know, we're talking about programs, housing stabilization, daycare, autism centers, feeding our future. I mean, these are all compassionate, good Minnesota values.
We wanna take care of our neighbors in need. If our neighbors, if they're struggling to find the amount of money to put food on their table, we will take the shirt off our back to help our neighbors in need. These fraudsters preyed on the goodwill of Minnesotans. Minnesota is Minnesota. Nice.
And these fraudsters knew it, and they took advantage of us. So I'm gonna start with you, representative Rarek. Thank you again for your leadership. During your tenure in Minnesota state government, how long have you been working on this issue, and what are some of the craziest, most egregious things that you've seen, really that have been identified by the incompetency of our CEO governor of our state.
Speaker 6
Right. So I was elected in 2013, started serving then, and I literally have heard about fraud since 2013. And I'll tell you, every time that it was raised in committee by myself or my colleagues, we were essentially called racist and Islamophobic or that the fraud really wasn't happening. I remember with the daycare fraud when there were credible allegations that it was a $100,000,000 back in 13, 14, 15, somewhere in there. They prosecuted closer to 5 to 10 million.
And so instead of the 100000000, that was what was prosecuted. And so Democrats would say, well, it's really not. It's really not 100,000,000. It's really just a couple. And so I know that we had a gentleman behind us come and testify in front of us, and he had a tracker, and they spent the entire time besmirching his good character as opposed to actually talking about the fraud.
And that's what we've experienced.
Speaker 49
So thank you for that testimony, but also, thank you for being strong. Because of the politics of intimidation, name calling, race baiting, they want us to shut up. They want this fraud to continue, and so, thank you for being strong. You know, I represent 750,000 of our neighbors in Southern Minnesota. It's God's country down there.
And, you know, I hear from my neighbors the Democrat control and what it's done to decimate our daycare industry, the affordability, the access. We just struggle with daycare in Southern Minnesota. And I can't help but think that, wow, 9,000,000,000 dollars sure would go a long way to help our neighbors in Southern Minnesota. You know, the Wall's administration has done crazy things. They've weaponized the administration.
Heck, we have daycares in Southern Minnesota getting fined for leaving Chapstick on their office desk. They can find the time to do that, but they can't find the $9,000,000,000. Ridiculous. Representative Robbins, the Democrats at the state and federal level. So we're talking everyone from Angie Craig, Ilhan Omar, Tina Smith, Amy Klobuchar, Tim Walls.
Speaker 49
Have they helped at all in your committee work? Have they been a part of it? Have they said, hey? We wanna help try to get rid of this fraud.
Speaker 4
No. I don't know of any Democrats who have called out the Wells administration for their absolute failure to protect taxpayer dollars and our vulnerable citizens.
Speaker 49
So this is just unbelievable to me that we cannot, in the face of this horrific fraud and crime that's going on, we can't for a brief moment rip the R and the D off our sweatshirt and put the USA on and say enough is enough. And so what you're doing, and by being here today, helping us understand the details and the level of fraud in Minnesota is so important. We can't thank you enough. And, Chairman Comer, we stand ready to help you and this committee however we can to put an end to this.
Speaker 1
We're serious about it, and we want to work with you. Chair recognizes Mr. Langworthy from Buffalo.
Speaker 47
Well, thank you very much, mister chairman, and thank you for putting this hearing together so promptly after all of this fraud was unveiled. I'm not gonna get into belaboring all the facts that have been revealed here already today. But representative Robbins, how long do you believe that this fraud was allowed to operate in Minnesota before anyone in the state government actually decided to act?
Speaker 4
Well, we've had all this going on since 2014 at least, and the Walls administration's been in office seven years, and they very belatedly took a few actions this fall. So they only came to the table to help pause the program and have required because of the public pressure.
Speaker 47
So we're looking at fraud going back 11 years at this point in untold sums of money. And with the years that this has gone on, who in your mind knew about this fraud, and who do you think looked the other way?
Speaker 4
I think everybody in Minnesota knew about it. There's been so many great local investigative journalistic stories on this. And I think the governor, the lieutenant governor, the attorney general, and all of the agency heads have looked the other way.
Speaker 47
I really wanna salute you and your colleagues that were on the front end of this trying to get people to pay attention to this. And when you raised attention to this fraud long before Nick Shirley's outstanding reporting, Governor Walls and attorney general Ellison actually refused to take your claim seriously. Isn't that correct?
Speaker 4
Yes. We gave them a list in February of 72 childcare centers we thought were problematic that should be investigated. And to my knowledge, they didn't do anything with the list we provided.
Speaker 47
Now, you know, as an elected official, you obviously are out in the community. Is this blatant fraud something that people on the street are talking about?
Speaker 47
And they know it. It's in plain sight. Everyone knows what's going on, but no one will act.
Speaker 47
Are. But the people that are actually in power, you know, I come from New York, so I understand what Blue State Living's all about. But I it it's infuriating because we see the same thing in our home state. And when you have people in power that refuse to do the right thing even though the problem is an obvious one, it's really disheartening to the constituents and the taxpayers, the hard work amendment and women paying the bills. And representative Robbins, do you think that there was a political calculation that was made by the people that turned a blind eye, that it was more beneficial for them to allow and kind of green light the fraud, or were they afraid of political consequences if they actually did something about that from a constituency of Somalis?
Speaker 4
Yes. I think they chose to protect the fraudsters and the criminals over the whistleblowers and the taxpayers because, as the Somali investigator said, that feckless fear, they had feckless fear from the establishment politicians and state agencies when they were confronted with charges of racism and Islamophobia. So they were afraid of being called racist or Islamophobic, the Democrat politicians, and standing up to their base. So they just turned a blind eye.
Speaker 47
And would this, you know, the Somali population is part of the Democrat party's base at this point in Minnesota. Isn't that correct?
Speaker 47
Largely. So they were basically renting a constituency through the fraud at the expense of the taxpayer. That's wild. You don't have to answer that. I think that we all know the answer to that.
And representative Hudson, there is a child care affordability crisis right now, and young families in my district and across the country are making really tough choices to afford quality care. What impact has this fraud had on waitlists and staffing, and simply making resources available for legitimate child care centers in your constituency?
Speaker 5
Well, as Mister Finstead pointed out, in Minnesota, there's been a long-standing attack upon family-based childcare where folks would run businesses out of their homes. And when you're out of the city, that's usually the type of childcare you would have access to. And so in a climate where there's already been reductions in the availability of people to be able to receive childcare, then again, going back to the firefighter putting out the fire analogy, yeah, it causes damage with the water, but it's necessary in this time because even though it hurts because of the blaze that was allowed to explode.
Speaker 47
It's amazing. This $9,000,000,000 in fraud went uninvestigated, ignored, swept aside for years, not a single rogue bureaucrat, but by every Democrat official in the state of Minnesota who presented with clear damning evidence chose to look the other way blindly. I cannot wait to see Tim Walls and Keith Ellison in those seats where you're sitting right now. But to everyone here, we cannot ignore who truly benefited from this failure beyond the perpetrators of the fraud. And it's governor Tim Walls and the entire democratic leadership throughout a constituency's votes that they bought by looking the other way and letting this happen.
They effectively greenlit this theft of billions of dollars in taxpayer money through years of willful ignorance, and every single American taxpayer deserves full accountability, because this isn't limited to just Minnesota. We have a lot of other states to start looking at. I mean, all the big blue handout states, I live in one of them. We have to open the Pandora's box here and find out how much money has been siphoned off from America's taxpayers. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 19
I also want to echo my support for Congressman Langworthy's remarks. Certainly associate myself with them. It is all political, and it's very unfortunate. I wanna thank the witnesses for testifying today. I also like to thank our chairman for convening this hearing so expeditiously.
Less than two weeks have passed since the nation was caught in this just horrible, horrible crisis watching this unfold, and here we are with action today. We've talked a lot about the 9000000000 in fraud. I like quantifying it because, you know, more often than not, we throw around the biggest numbers here in Washington, and sometimes it's hard to quantify it. It takes about a second to count a dollar bill, and that's nine billion seconds, which means that if we started counting in 1741, two hundred eighty-five years ago, we would just now be finishing $9,000,000,000 worth of accounts. So take that data point to heart.
But I wanna concentrate my line of questioning today on the whistle blowers. And I know a lot has been discussed, but as we near the end of this hearing, I wanna start with representative Rarek. And it's our understanding as has been discussed today. The Department of Human Services whistleblowers claim that they have faced retaliation from senior Minnesota Department of Human Services officials, including appointees on behalf of Governor Walls. And I just want you to explain to us again how these administrators have retaliated against whistleblowers.
Speaker 6
Right. So the threats were pretty intense. And as I've said, their jobs were threatened. They had strange questions demanding answers about where their children went to school, where their bus stops were. They were told that if you don't do what we tell you to do or do not do what we tell you to do, you'll lose your job.
You'll lose that job with cause, which means in Minnesota that you don't get unemployment insurance. You could also lose your retirement plan. Also, you'd be blacklisted off of all state agencies, and I would note that that also includes Hennepin and Ramsey Counties, our biggest counties, because they are Democrat run, and maybe even the University of Minnesota. I'm gonna throw that into probably some of our biggest cities like Rochester, Duluth, that are very Democrat leaning. So it's a very vast threat.
They've also threatened them with sort of a vague military intelligence. So there was one I have the email right here that was just submitted, I believe, by Congresswoman Fischbach, and it says things like, I would like to use my former colleagues in the army to locate where you are using your IP address. And I don't have that, he says I don't have that technology anymore, but I can get it in a heartbeat. So there were vague threats, and I believe there was more threats beyond that. But it was very expensive threats.
Speaker 19
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that. I actually wanted to talk about that. As I understand it, it was the, and I think it's to your point, she entered it into the record. But the interim deputy assistant commissioner of operations for the folks watching at home, the Department of Human Services Minnesota allegedly was trying to use contact in the military during the Biden administration to track whistleblower's whereabouts. I presume this is illegal under Minnesota law, but would love for you to indulge us as to whether or not it is.
Speaker 6
You know, I don't know for sure if it's illegal in Minnesota. If it's not, it certainly should be. I think most of what happened to the whistleblowers is illegal. But the control over the state, the control over the largest counties, the control over some of our largest cities is controlled by Democrats. And so this was allowed to continue.
Speaker 19
And to the best of your knowledge, whether it be Governor Dayton or Governor Paulenti before, were whistleblowers treated in such a manner under those administrations, or is this unique to the Walls administration?
Speaker 6
I don't have any reports, particularly through the Polenti administration. I know that fraud was beginning to be uncovered at the very tail end of his administration, but mostly under Democratic rule. But I don't know of this kind of retaliation in any other administration besides the Wall's administration.
Speaker 19
Thank you for sharing that with us. And I just wanna close out. You know, some Minnesota officials claim they had no knowledge of this fraud, just found out about it, which I think we all know is demonstrably false. But I'm just curious. Could you elaborate for this committee on the many ways by which Governor Walls could have been made aware of this?
I mean, he certainly was made aware of this, turned a blind eye. I just wanna make sure that we understand as a committee the many methods by which he was informed.
Speaker 6
So there were a multitude of legislative auditor reports, somewhat so that I had read into the record what Jim Noble's, the last legislative auditor before Judy Randall, He had been the legislative auditor for 38 years, and he was so disgusted by the actions of governor Walls that he wrote a couple comments in the Star Tribune saying that they literally just needed to do basic financial controls, and it's behooving to him or confounding to him, I should say, as to why they didn't. So he is very much a nonpartisan, nonpolitical person, and he was shocked at what he found.
Speaker 19
I wanna thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today. Mister chairman, I yield back.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen yields back, and I believe our last questioner is our last wave on for Minnesota. Representative Stauber.
Speaker 17
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And, after all the conversations today, you wonder why the Department of Justice can't get the voter rolls out of Minnesota, and the secretary of ag can't get the SNAP benefits from Minnesota to make sure there's no fraud. Mister chairman, thank you very much for holding this hearing. And I also wanna thank our witnesses whose years of hard work in Minnesota are exposing these revelations, are finally garnering the national attention that they deserve. And finally, I wanna thank the numerous whistleblowers who are exposing Tim Walls' failures as governor.
As we have heard today, these brave men and women are risking their careers to reveal the truth, while Tim Walls is actively attempting to threaten and suppress them. I'm here to say it won't work, and we stand with the whistleblower. I'm gonna shift gears and ask you about Minnesota's new paid family leave program that the governor has been touting during this fraud scandal. Representative Rarek, under the paid family leave program in Minnesota, who can I take leave or care for? And is it limited to family or dependents?
Speaker 6
Thank you, Congressman Staubert. No. It is not limited to just family. One would think that it was, but there is something that the Democrats built into the law that said, if I set up an expectation of care with no documentation, by the way, no attestation, absolutely no documentation, then that is good enough in Minnesota.
Speaker 17
So it doesn't matter if they're related, if I've had a past relationship or closer. I can just go and ask my or tell my employer I'm leaving for twelve weeks or eight weeks and get 90% of my pay and take care of that person. Right?
Speaker 6
You could do that. Yes. And so it's a sliding scale. It's not all of the people who will get 90%, but the vast majority, I believe, depending on your salary, would get 90%. And yes, you could go take care of anybody because there is no documentation.
Speaker 17
But what kind of proof of care would I have to provide to the state to demonstrate that I am actually taking care of you during my paid family leave?
Speaker 6
Yeah. There's absolutely no documentation. So you have to provide and prove absolutely nothing.
Speaker 17
So if I don't show up and take care of who I say I'm taking care of, nothing's going to happen to me?
Speaker 6
That's correct. You could go to Puerto Rico. You could go to Istanbul. It doesn't matter where you go or what you do. You there's no requirement to document.
Speaker 17
So I can say that I'm just caring for anyone, and the state of Minnesota would require my boss to give me a 12-week vacation without any proof?
Speaker 17
Is a licensed American doctor required to certify that this person needs my immediate and uninterrupted care?
Speaker 6
So the people, the medical professionals, is a very broad category. And, no, they do not have to be an American midwife, doctor, chiropractor, orthopedic surgeon. None of those things. It can be in any country.
Speaker 17
Does the state require the person I'm claiming to care for to be present in Minnesota or even in the United States of America?
Speaker 17
So you're telling me I can get a foreign doctor without an American license to just check a box, and I get a state-mandated paid vacation to Somalia or any other country. Is that correct?
Speaker 17
This is incredibly concerning. With what little time I have left, I wanna open this up to the entire panel. Is there anything else you would like to address regarding the paid family leave program? And I'll start with Representative Robbins.
Speaker 4
Thank you. We always talk about how important it is to stop fraud on the front end. So our committee held a hearing on this paid family leave law that took effect on January 1 back in November. And we grilled the Department of Employment and Economic Development, trying to get them to shore up some of these definitions, trying to put some guardrails on this program. And they just assured us over and over, they've got it covered.
There won't be any fraud. Don't worry about it. But I've already had whistleblower reports since the program started, January 1, of fraud. So we're gonna have to get a handle on this, and I think it's the next fraud frontier in Minnesota.
Speaker 17
Representative Hudson, anything you'd like to add on the paid family leave program in Minnesota?
Speaker 5
Just to put the points that representative Rarek put as concisely as possible. It is humorous but true that you could quite literally have a witch doctor approve your vacation to Somalia. That's how loose the rules are written. I'm listen. I'm proud to be from Minnesota.
I was born, raised, and living in Minnesota, raising my family there. This is gonna stop, and you folks are at.
Speaker 17
The front of it. Minnesotans have had enough. We're hardworking people. We will not allow our tax scholars to go to fraud, and I commend the three of you and other folks back in Minnesota that wanna stop this, and mister Cherry yield back.
Speaker 3
I would like to make a motion to subpoena the Department of Homeland Security for all documents and footage related to the murder of a woman by ICE that took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota, today.
Speaker 1
A motion has been made. The committee will hold this motion in advance till the end of today's hearing, and we will prepare to close now. That concludes all of our questions. I'd, in closing, I wanna again thank our witnesses for being here today. Welcome to the House Oversight Committee.
This was a pretty cordial committee hearing for us. So, we are very important. Before we adjourn, I wanna yield to ranking member Garcia for his closing remarks, and then I will give my closing remarks.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just before I wanna close, I just also wanna mention the news of this horrific killing in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We're talking about Minnesota right now. This was a killing by an ICE agent. There are videos that are now online.
There's testimony that's being brought to light. It's horrific. I encourage folks to watch those videos and see what happened for themselves. And I'm hopeful that this committee investigates this incident, and that we have full accountability. So I wanna thank representative Presley for her motion.
Now we've heard a lot today, and particularly a lot of bigoted smears against an entire community. Now some Republican members of this committee said or implied that somehow all Somalis are suspected fraudsters or terrorists. Now Somali Americans are overwhelmingly US citizens with the same rights as any member of this committee. And the rest and a vast majority of them are just hardworking folks. They're trying to take care of their families and play by the rules.
And we should be clear that if we wanna investigate fraud, we should start by investigating 1,600 in Pennsylvania. We all know that fraud is a betrayal of the public's trust, and Democrats agree that we must be rigorous in conducting oversight wherever it exists. But conducting rigorous oversight does not somehow exclude the president or the administration or the DOJ and what's happening there, or the rapid crimes that are happening right now all across other agencies. We know that holding fraudsters accountable does not mean granting them full and unconditional presidential pardons, because they are wealthy supporters of the president. President Trump last year gave out 25 get out of jail free cards from fraudsters alone.
25. He pardoned them from paying back more than $1,000,000,000 to their victims. This is wrong, and it's un-American. We have to make sure that victims of fraud are not forced to suffer anymore. And we also know that cutting off childcare and family support for thousands of innocent families is not the way to protect victims.
In fact, it punishes victims. These attacks are harming parents, children, and childcare providers as we speak. Many childcare providers, not just in Minnesota but across the country, are receiving death threats. Childcare centers have been vandalized, and the children's information has been stolen in some cases. Child care providers in states across the country have reported that they will have to close if they lose federal funding.
Parents are saying they have to quit their jobs because they'll no longer be able to have child care for their families while they're at work. These cuts will make it harder for families to put food on the table, as grocery costs continue to increase. We should be protecting those families and children who are being hurt by all of this. Let's go after the big fraud in our government, and that includes fraud and corruption at the White House. And with that, I yield back.
Speaker 1
The I can remember you yields back, and, I will conclude by saying, today, we have heard about the shocking, rampant, and long ongoing fraud in Minnesota's social service programs. This fraud has shocked and outraged the American people, and rightfully so. The scale of this fraud is not just something we've seen before, and I'm pretty confident this is just the tip of the iceberg. The Trump administration has taken a hold of the government approach to rooting out fraud. The Trump administration has already uncovered at least $9,000,000,000 in fraud.
These criminals have stolen taxpayer dollars from all Americans to fund lavish cars, homes, and vacations here in the US and abroad. Some of this stolen money is even allegedly going overseas to support terrorists. Our witnesses, the chairwoman, and two members of the Minnesota House of Representatives Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Policy Committee have been sounding the alarm on this fraud for years. Democrats have attempted to distract the American people from this widespread fraud, and accuse investigators of racism. This should not be a partisan issue, but they clearly do not take the issue seriously.
Either they don't take fraud seriously, or they just don't care. It's one or the other. The most vulnerable are suffering as a result. These programs are meant to feed needy kids, provide services to autistic children, house low-income and disabled Americans, and provide health care to vulnerable Medicaid recipients. The Waltz administration has kept this money flowing for years, oftentimes behind closed doors.
When whistleblowers came forward about this fraud, the Walt's administration retaliated against employees who warned and alerted the administration to the fraud occurring within these social programs. There's
Speaker 1
be checks and balances in our system to prevent this, both on the federal and state levels. Every agency that lost hundreds of millions and even billions of dollars has well-paid staff that are supposed to prevent this. That's their job. They're inspectors general. That's their job.
They have a huge staff. We have jurisdiction over the IGs. Many have failed, and they need to be held accountable. Now I wanna close by saying we've had four Minnesota Republicans waive on this committee. If there was a committee hearing about fraud in Kentucky and I wasn't on the committee, I would wanna waive the committee.
But not a single Democrat requested to waive on the committee from the state of Minnesota. And there is one member of the Minnesota delegation, Representative Omar, who coincidentally is of Somali descent, who did not request to be in this hearing. I'll publicly invite her to come to the next hearing, and she doesn't have to. But she can request to be waived on, and I will gladly grant that request. Now I'm doing this motion.
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an application unsealed by the United States District Court for the District of Minnesota on 12/18/2025 for law enforcement to execute a search warrant on Ultimate Home Health Services LLC for defrauding Minnesota's independent community support to the Medicaid program. This fraudulent provider's negligence resulted in the death of a man who suffered from severe mental health fitness. I referenced this tragedy in my opening statement. We're not gonna, this isn't it. This is just the beginning.
We wanna, again, thank you for being here. We're gonna work with you to see that these federal funds go to people in Minnesota who they're supposed to go to. I support president Trump putting a halt on all federal funding to these government social programs in Minnesota until we get a handle on where this is going. And thank you all for doing that. We will work with you and do everything we can to hold people accountable and to stop the fraud and get the back of the American taxpayers.
Pursuant to the previous order, the chair declared the committee in recess, subject to the call of the chair. We plan to reconvene at 4 PM. The committee now stands in recess, and the witnesses may be excused. Thank you all.
Speaker 22
Is it happening today? Is that real? Connor kinda go where people kinda go crazy? Or does that, I does that happen much?
Speaker 1
Ready. The committee will reconvene. I know we have votes very quickly on the House floor. If we don't get this done, we're gonna have to come back and vote after the floor votes whenever however long that lasts. So the first motion is the Luna motion to appeal to subpoena Neville Singham.
It's now brought under consideration. Does any member wish to speak on the motion?
Speaker 2
Thank you. Pursuant to clause 2k6 of House Rule 11, the committee shall subpoena Lex Wexner to serve for deposition before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Speaker 2
Mister chairman, I'd like to be recognized to explain the amendment briefly. Okay.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is an amendment, of course, to Representative Luna's motion. Lex Wexner is a longtime benefactor of Jeffrey Epstein, and at one point was Epstein's only documented client. Maria Farmer was abused in a house attached to Wexner's Ohio property, and guarded by Wexner's security staff. Virginia Giffray was named Wexner in a deposition as one of the men to whom she was trafficked.
Wexner also paid for Epstein's home in New York City. There is probably no one more important as it relates to the financing and the work of this investigation with which both sides of the aisle are interested in, have voted to move forward, than ensuring that we bring mister Wexner in to come and be deposed by this committee. Public reporting is documented. There are long-standing ties. He should answer our questions in a nonpartisan way to get the truth to the Epstein investigation, and that is the motion.
Speaker 1
Would you, let's see. So, I guess we're gonna debate the amendment to the motion. Would you yield to a question? Sure. We are serious about the Epstein investigation, and I think you've seen a lot of our members stand up and make it very clear.
They wanna get to the bottom of Epstein. Nobody wants to do it more than I do. We also want to hear from Bill Clinton. And you all vote we voted a bipartisan manner to subpoena Bill Clinton, but we haven't gotten confirmation for President Clinton to come in for a transcribed interview or now a deposition. So do you all gonna help us try to get Clinton in?
I figure you.
Speaker 2
Guys have been right now. I've been very clear, and I think the committee agrees that we're willing to talk to anyone, including the former president, if they have information regarding the Epstein investigation. And so the motion in front of us right now is on Lex Wexner, who is central to the Epson investigation and probably knows more than anyone else about the financing and has been named by survivors. That is in addition to Luna's motion, which if part of the amendment, we can certainly take that vote. Okay.
Speaker 24
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanna echo my support for this subpoena, and say two things. One, this is not a quid pro quo. This is an investigation.
Speaker 24
And so we will subpoena and support subpoenas for any coconspirator and anyone who has evidence that's important in this case. Secondly, I wanna know that this individual is actually named in the Department of Justice emails that were released in the partial release by the administration as one of the 10 coconspirators the Department of Justice was investigating and was actually named. Okay. And finally, I just wanna say this, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Justice has released, as we understand it, only 1% of the files in their possession.
And I think we really wanna know why this committee is not demanding the DOJ come in front of us immediately to account for this. And with that, I yield back.
Speaker 1
Any other, Miss Luna? Use your request to speak on the Garcia, yes. Yes. Amendment to your motion.
Speaker 10
I think that this is a sound motion for subpoena because Les Wexner has been named by victims, and also choosing a number of documentaries. But, I would like to at least offer my opinion and repeat what Miss Stansbury said regarding some of the files that have been released. There have been thousands of files released, so much so that, yes, there have been redactions, but most of the redactions, to my knowledge, have been pertaining to either CSAM materials or victim information. I know that in one instance, there was potentially a breach of that, which the DOJ immediately corrected. But we have also been working, at least my office has, with the Department of Justice to make sure that victims have received their direct information.
So please understand, at least from my perspective, that it is not our opinion that there has been a holdback. I do know that the documents are on a rolling basis as well, similar to the other declassified files. However, aside from that, I do support Garcia's amendment, and I would encourage my colleagues to do so.
Speaker 1
Alright. Any other discussion on the Garcia amendment? Seeing none, all those in favor of the amendment of the Garcia amendment to the Luna motion, signify by saying aye.
Speaker 1
All those opposed, say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the amendment is agreed to.
Speaker 1
So the, now the debate is on the, does any member wish to speak on the Luna motion as amended? Representative Luna.
Speaker 10
Just so everyone is tracking. Neville Singham was referred to the Department of Justice, I believe, for fire violations by then Senator Rubio when he served on the Senate Foreign Intelligence or Senate Intelligence Committee. Neville Seeingham, regardless of what you might feel about your colleagues, has been a mechanism and a funding arm of the Chinese Communist Party. He's not a registered agent by far and has been connected to a number of rights to include the anti ICE riots being funded in Los Angeles as well as a group that was tied to and being investigated for the assassination of Charlie Kirk known as, I think it was, the a group of socialism and liberation, and then also to, is has been avoiding our request for him to come bring information to congress. He is definitely someone that is anti-American in ideology.
And regardless of where you might stand, even on topics like Israel versus Palestine, is funding certain groups that actually sow discord in this country with no efforts to actually resolve the issues, only to get us to fight one another. So I would encourage you all, at least if you don't politically agree with one another, to at least respect the fact that he is a known foreign agent to China, has not been registered as such, has been made to fund rights, and has been known to be the result of many of our own Americans being targeted with violence. And as a result of that, I do think that he should face a subpoena. In the event that he's not subpoenaed or that he does not answer the subpoena, I will be making a motion for inherent contempt. And I encourage my colleagues to support this motion.
Speaker 28
you. Being new to this committee, I guess I'm just curious why this is happening in this hearing and why we didn't have a chance to review this subpoena with some notice so that, you know, as much as I wanna appreciate what you say and just take it at face value, we're all learning this right now, and it doesn't really give us a lot of time to do our research to determine the validity of your subpoena request. And so I just really, from a procedural perspective, I'm just curious if
Speaker 2
wanna add that I understand these concerns. I'm gonna recommend that we vote yes on the Luna motion. I think the representative made clear her support for the deposition that we're gonna have with Mister Wexner, and so that's gonna be my recommendation for our committee.
Speaker 10
Then if I could just answer the question. So as part of the rules, if subpoenas are not sent in the traditional fashion through the chairman, individual members can actually make motions where the committee as a whole can vote on it. And so because Neville Singham has been avoiding receipt of our request for him to come in and just give basic information, because he has been known to be funding these groups that are literally causing us to eat each other alive, even sometimes within the house of representatives. I do think that he needs to answer for that. And so, to answer your question, that is why I made the motion today.
Speaker 1
Any other members wish to speak? Seeing none, all those in favor of the Luna motion as amended by the Garcia amendment, signify by saying,
Speaker 1
All those opposed, say no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion, as amended, is agreed to. Next up is the Luna motion number two to subpoena Jonathan Greenblatt. Does any member wish to speak on the motion, Miss Luna?
Speaker 2
Thank you. I have an amendment to Representative Luna. Pursuant to clause 2k6 of House Rule 11, the committee shall subpoena Governor Tate Reeves of Mississippi to testify in a hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. And I have some comments if you'd like to recognize them now.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanna recognize a notion. We, of course, had a big hearing today, and we certainly shouldn't just be concerned with fraud that could be happening in states with Democratic governors, but also in those with Republican governors. Fraud should be looked at anywhere it happens. The Wall Street Journal on Monday reported a massive Mississippi welfare scandal.
Mississippi has seen years of scandals under multiple governors, but we have been silent as a committee. We didn't have any witnesses from Mississippi here today, and oversight Republicans aren't calling on governor Tate. So this is an opportunity for the American people to hear about fraud wherever it occurs, and this motion will do just that, and I yield back.
Speaker 1
Now I'll chug it as Miss Luna. To speak on the Garcia amendment to your motion number 2?
Speaker 10
Fraud is fraud. I support this. I encourage my colleagues to do it. Doesn't matter if they're Republican or not. If he's guilty of it, bring him in.
Speaker 18
I am wondering if the gentleman would allow me to move to amend his amendment to include the governor of Arizona who admitted that they had $2,500,000,000 worth of fraud in Medicaid, fraud just a year ago. The attorney general did.
Speaker 1
Okay. This is where my FFA parliamentary procedure came into place. Ellie, you can back amendment. There's a motion to amend the amendment. Do we go into that emotion?
Alright. So Mister Biggs has made an amendment to the Garcia amendment to the Luna motion. Does anyone wish to speak on the Biggs amendment to the amendment? And his is a subpoenaed the Arizona governor. Right.
Okay.
Speaker 2
I'm his opponent. Look. I'm glad that the representative wants to subpoena his opponent in the governor's race, just to be clear.
Speaker 2
Thank you, sir. Since I have the floor. I just wanna say that my amendment is clear. We heard from one state today. I think it's important that we hear from Governor Tate of Mississippi.
That's the amendment that we're I'm gonna let stand as presented. If other motions are made, we can vote on those as appropriate.
Speaker 1
Chair recognizes mister Biggs to specify his amendment to the amendment on who we're.
Speaker 18
Yeah. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I'm happy to reword my amendment as instead of the governor of Arizona, if you want the attorney general. I because the attorney general is the one who stood up a year and a half ago and said that she discovered $2,500,000,000 worth of waste in Arizona's Medicaid program and that we need to find out more about that. So I'm content with doing that.
And I just find it hilariously hypocritical to say, well, we want the dude from Mississippi because he's a Republican. And but when you wanna bring in someone from my home state,
Speaker 18
I move it. And to say, well, we can't do that. Can't do that because that would be I don't know. It's just because this is the cycle you guys chose to get on. She's admitted.
She has admitted, the attorney general, that there's $2,500,000,000 worth of waste in the Medicaid program. I submitted that for the record earlier today. And, well, let's have at it.
Speaker 1
Okay. Okay. So the amendment to the amendment is to subpoena the Arizona Attorney General. Does anyone wish to speak on the amendment to the amendment, mister?
Speaker 33
I just wanted to clarify, because I think the gentleman from Arizona said that this was over a year ago, a year and a half ago, if I'm correct. Is that correct?
Speaker 33
Okay. So about a year ago, there was an opportunity for you as a representative and, presumably, before you were actually running for office. I think the concern is about using federal dollars to further political aspirations. And as someone who was representing Arizona, there should have been an opportunity for you to do something to try to subpoena. You could have tried to open an investigation.
We know that the Republicans are the ones that control this committee and have controlled this committee for some time. So, I just wanted to say that I definitely am opposed to this particular portion of the, I guess, amendment to the amendment. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Chair recognizes Mister Fallon to speak on the amendment to the amendment.
Speaker 20
Yeah. I support the amendment to the amendment because, I mean, a lot of us served in the state legislature. I did for eight years in the House and Senate in Texas. This is a systemic problem across all states. I wanna, I mean, we're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of criminals and scumbags stealing money that's not going to where it's intended.
So I don't give a rat's nuggets if it's Arizona, Mississippi, wherever. We need to be rooting out this stuff. So I'm fully in support of Mister Biggs, and I think your efforts are noble. I yield back. I yield to Mr. Biggs.
Speaker 50
for yielding. I do find it rich to say, oh, you should've subpoenaed this a year ago, just like you guys could've subpoenaed anybody you wanted to a year ago as well. So let me just add to this by saying, our current governor has been is being investigated. And I don't wanna get into that because she is currently being investigated for corruption and abuse. I'm not trying to get into that.
What I'm trying to get into is what I thought we'd reach some comity here that we are gonna be going after fraud wherever it sits in these social welfare programs. And so you didn't like it? Thought that might be doing it for political purposes. It's not for political purposes. This is because Arizona has a systemic problem in their Medicaid program of 2.5 billion dollars fraud that the Democrat attorney general pointed out.
Let's have her come in and explain how this has happened and what needs to be done to fix the systemic problems in Arizona. Maybe that would be helpful to fix the problems nationwide. That's all. You're back to the gentleman from Texas. Thank you.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Just a final comment on this. I oppose the amendment, and here's very clear. Today, we talked about five states, all states with democratic governors, focused on one. We're asked where the motion that we're making as an amendment is very clear.
It's to bring in one Republican governor in comparison to what the majority has proposed in the past, and that's where we're leaving it. And so at a minimum, the majority should want to bring in one Republican compared to the six that we discussed today. And so we're gonna would.
Speaker 1
You would you yield? Sure. Yeah. So I'm fine if there's fraud in any state. Would you work with us to get Walt back in here so he can have an opportunity to defend what was stated today?
I think to work with.
Speaker 2
us now. I think Governor Wallace right now is looking at coming into the committee. Obviously, I'm happy to have anyone in front of us that's willing to explain.
Speaker 2
We're willing oversight democrats are willing to talk to any person, any governor, any person that can be in front of us so we can explain issues that are important to the American public. We have no issue with Governor Walls coming in to testify.
Speaker 1
Any other members speak recognition on the Biggs amendment to the Garcia amendment. Mr Perry?
Speaker 30
Mister chairman, if it will make it less political, if the maker of the secondary amendment would like me to offer it in his name coming from nowhere close to Arizona to subpoena the Arizona attorney general regarding her statements about known fraud in Arizona. I'd be happy to do that. Well, then since he's willing to do it, we can then.
Speaker 1
Well, he would have to, Mister Biggs would have to withdraw his amendment.
Speaker 30
The gentleman has withdrawn, and then we can I'll make the same motion to subpoena as a secondary amendment to the primary resolution, the attorney general from Arizona regarding her position and statements on fraud in Arizona in the Medicaid program.
Speaker 1
I wanna make sure everybody understands this. Represent Biggs has withdrawn his amendment to the amendment, and now Mister Perry has filed an amendment to the amendment in the same language to subpoena the Arizona attorney general. Does everyone understand that? Okay. Does now do any Democrat?
Mister Minh, you've had your hand up over there.
Speaker 28
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I appreciated our conversation earlier today when you expressed very clearly that this should not be a partisan committee, that we should go after fraud in all forms. And, at which point, you also agreed that having some kind of investigative hearing into Mississippi might be appropriate. I appreciate your support of this amendment to the bill. If we're gonna have amendments to amendments, I guess the one question I have, and I this might be
Speaker 28
proposal. The inspector generals were all fired at the beginning of Trump's second term. Those are the primary watchdogs for protecting the American taxpayer from waste, fraud, and abuse of this kind. So why are we not calling in Pam Bondi and anybody else who might have had knowledge and input into the decision to fire these inspector generals, as well as their staffs? And so, I guess I would propose an amendment to the amendment to the amendment that we have a hearing and subpoena Pam Bondi and others in this regard.
Why would inspect the lawyer?
Speaker 28
Around and anyone else with knowledge around the decisions and input on the decisions to fire and terminate the inspection generals.
Speaker 1
I wanna remind her, they've called vokes, and I have a feeling this is gonna keep going on and on. But you've made a motion to amend Amendment. Amend the amendment to the amendment.
Speaker 1
Yeah. You can only do that twice. That's a parliamentary rule. Yes. That's okay.
Tell you, are you your dad speaking? Alright. Chair recognizes mister Donald's.
Speaker 15
Mister chairman, I move that the committee recess or call the committee, we wanna call a question. Just wanna recess so we can go vote, and come back and finish this up.
Speaker 1
Right. I think that's a fair vote. They called votes about 10 minutes ago. So pursue it to the previous order. The committee will recess until immediately following the votes.
The committee stands recess. The committee will reconvene, and the chair recognizes Miss Luna to talk about her motion that has been amended a couple of times. Can I recognize Miss Salona?
Speaker 10
So in the name of avoiding watering down our initial amendment, I'm going to withdraw the initial motion. Chairman?
Speaker 1
K. Without objection, so ordered. Okay. So now the chair recognizes Miss Luna for loo yep. For Luna motion three.
Speaker 10
I think that was a mace motion, sir. Oh, we're doing the next one of mine? Okay.
Speaker 1
We're gonna go ahead and do okay. Chair recognizes Miss Luna from Florida for her third motion.
Speaker 10
Yes. I do encourage all of my colleagues to support this. As you know, with what happened with recent events in Venezuela, there was a leak of classified information, as well as resulting in one of the journalists who obtained that information. And I will say credits to the news agencies for realizing that American lives could be put in jeopardy if this leaked information was published. They did put the kibosh on it, but after the fact, Seth Harp proceeded to dox the Delta Force commander, or a Delta Force commander associated or thinking that they were associated with the mission in Venezuela, resulting in his children and his family being harassed and targeted, not just by activists here in The United States, potentially by narcoterrorists.
I do encourage the entire committee to issue the subpoena of Seth Harp as he should be held accountable for potentially leaking classified information and doxxing service members, putting their lives and their family members at jeopardy by narcoterrorists.
Speaker 1
Okay. So Miss Luna's made that motion. Chair recognizes Mr. Garcia for an amendment.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do have an amendment to the motion made by Representative Luna. And to make that amendment, I just wanna say pursuant to clause 2 k 6 of house rule 11, the committee shall subpoena coexecutors of the Epstein estate, Daryl Indik and Richard Khan, to sit for depositions before the house committee on oversight and government reform. And, mister chairman, I'd like to explain the amendment. Proceed.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I know as you and so many others know, and certainly miss Luna's aware, Darren, Darren Indyke and Richard Khan were Jeffrey Epstein's longtime lawyer and accountant. A few people know more about what Epstein did and who he met with, and certainly his crimes, than the coexecutors and beneficiaries of Epstein's estate. We've heard directly from survivors, as we all know, about both those gentlemen. And to get justice for the survivors, which I think all of us in this committee want to get, we certainly should hear from these two men.
And with that, I'd like to both support Representative Luna's motion and make this amendment. Alright.
Speaker 1
Does anyone else seek recognition on the Garcia amendment to the Luna motion? Chair recognizes Ms. Luna.
Speaker 10
I also encourage my colleague to support this as individuals could potentially give the oversight committee access to financial records, and potentially name names.
Speaker 29
Just, I think we all know. In the military, it should be apolitical. If somebody saved your life on the battlefield, you wouldn't care if they're black or white, Democrat, Republican, independent, male, or female. It should be apolitical. And some people risk their lives.
Some people risk their money. But our men and women in the military oftentimes risk their life or give their life for our freedom and doesn't anyone in the military for any reason. It just goes against the founding principles of this country, goes against everything that's great about our country, it's totally wrong. And, we should bring this guy in and hold him accountable.
Speaker 1
Gentlemen, yield back. Any other members seek recognition? Seeing none, we're going to vote by voice on the Garcia amendment to the LUNO motion. All those in favor of the Garcia amendment, signify by saying aye.
Speaker 1
All those opposed, say no. In the mow, in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, the Garcia amendment to the Luna motion is agreed to. Now would anyone want to discuss the Luna motion as amended?
Speaker 2
I'd just like to add, mister chair, that I support and certainly recommend, house democrats to support the Luna amendment.
Speaker 1
Any other members seek recognition? Seeing none. All those in favor of the Luna motion as amended with the Garcia amendment, signify by saying aye.
Speaker 1
All those opposed, say no. No. In the opinion and chair, the ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to. The committee will now proceed with the Mace motion to subpoena the department of. I'll recognize Miss Mace to explain her motion.
Speaker 34
Yes. This is to subpoena the immigration records of Elan Omar and her alleged brother, husband, and another husband whose names I cannot pronounce. The committee on oversight and government reform is the principal oversight committee of the US House of Representatives and has broad authority to investigate any manner at any time under House Rule 10. And this particularly, the legislative thing that this would inform would identify reforms regarding immigration fraud and denaturalization processes, potential criminal liability, things that we needed to address statutorily and legislatively. Mister chairman, thank you.
Speaker 1
Thank you. Chair, I recognize Mister Garcia to speak on the Mace amendment.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do have an amendment to the motion made by representative Mace.
Speaker 2
At the end of the motion, I'd like to add, pursuant to clause 2k6 of house rule 11, the committee shall subpoena all documents and communications from the Department of Defense regarding the military service record of representative Cory Mills of Florida.
Speaker 2
All documents, communications, and contracts from the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, Department of Interior, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of State related to representative Cory Mills of Florida. And any business in which he or any relative has a financial or controlling interest, including PACM Defense, PACM Solutions International LLC, ALS LLC, and any documents and communication from the Department of Justice, the US Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia, Ed Martin in his personal capacity, and the White House regarding any communications around the February 2025 domestic violence incident in Washington DC involving representative Cory Mills of Florida. And with that, mister chairman, I'd like to be recognized to explain the amendment.
Speaker 1
Mister Garcia amended the MACE motion. Does any other member seek recognition?
Speaker 2
I just wanna begin by saying, broadly speaking on the initial motion, congresswoman Omar is a proud member of this body and an American and as American as any member of this body. She's a public servant and a fighter for her constituents, and she represents the American dream. And I know I and House Democrats are honored and proud to support her, and to serve with her. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar has endured horrific attacks her entire time in public office, and we admire her courage. My motion, request documents on Cory Mills, a Republican from Florida.
And I just wanna note that this is not the best way of handling these types of issues. And we are introducing this only because this is being introduced on representative Ilhan Omar. And so we are forced to make this motion and this amendment to Nancy Mace's motion. And so, with that, I conclude.
Speaker 1
Gentleman yields back. Now chair recognizes Miss Mace to speak on the Garcia amendment to her motion.
Speaker 34
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I support Mister Representative Garcia's amendment, and you beat me to it. I was gonna do this on the House Armed Services Committee, and I'm a little jealous that you beat me to it. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. It is the best sunshine.
And if there are individuals, don't care about the party. I don't care about the affiliation. This needs to be getting we need to get to the bottom of it and what's going on. And quite frankly, I don't think someone that allegedly is doing arms deals should be sitting on the Foreign Affairs Committee or the House Armed Services Committee. Now this is what gets to the bottom of what's happening over there. Then, I support it, and I support the amendment.
And let's do it.
Speaker 1
I yield back. You yield to me. So I've had several members request information about trying to determine if Miss Omar was involved in any of this Somali fraud and this and that. The thing that I've told people is the ethics committee is set up to do that. That's what the ethics committee's sole purpose is, to investigate members.
So we've got a motion by mister Garcia to amend miss Mesa's motion. Both the amendment and the motion seek this committee to investigate sitting members' congress. That's not something the oversight committee does, but if, you know, we're a democratic committee, and I'm not telling anybody in here how to vote. You vote however you want, but that's what the ethics committee's role is. That's their jurisdiction.
And I just wanted to state that. And, again, look. I'm for whatever. I'm for transparency. You all vote the way you want.
This committee's weird. You're gonna vote the way you want anyway. I don't think the regular member can tell his members how to vote, and I can't tell my members how to vote. I'm just telling you that's what the ethics committee is.
Speaker 11
Mister chairman, if I believe you're correct in your assessment that that is not something within our jurisdiction. That would mean that that motion would be out of order, not subject to a vote. And let's do this anyway, even though it's not within our jurisdiction. That is a jurisdiction of another committee, and we normally and regularly refer matters that are not within our jurisdiction to other committees. And that's how that should be handled, sir.
That's my thought.
Speaker 1
The previous chairman of the I'm gonna respond to mister Lynch's inquiry. The previous chairwoman of the committee from New York, remind me.
Speaker 1
Meloni. She said the oversight committee has jurisdiction over anything and everything, and I kind of tend to believe that. But now the ethics committee has primary jurisdiction. There's no question about that. Now, do we have secondary jurisdiction?
Possibly, probably, whatever. I'm not.
Speaker 34
Mister chairman, under rule 10, we have the ability. We have full oversight.
Speaker 1
In this House of Representatives. We can do pretty much what we want in this committee, but I'm just, I just wanna make it very clear so we don't start going down this road or this committee will just turn into, you know, investigating other members, whoever's in control. That's what the ethics committee was set up to do.
Speaker 34
Miss Bays beat their life, and it was covered up. We should find out. Someone married their brother to commit immigration fraud. We should find out. That's what this committee can do.
Speaker 2
Let's not defame the members of congress. Mister chairman, I just wanted to add to you. I just wanna agree, first of all. I think oversight, Democrats, we don't believe either of these motions should be discussed. This is not the place to be going after members in this way.
If there's a concern about a member, it should be at the ethics committee. But if members on the majority are going to go after members in our caucus. We're going to do the same. And so if the Republican majority wants to remove this amendment, or vote this amendment down completely, we would join you on that. But what we're not gonna do is allow the attack on one of our members.
Speaker 34
Ethics recognize this. Each other and protect our own, and nobody ever gets held accountable for anything up here. That's what this whole thing is, BS.
Speaker 1
Chair recognizes which she is, guys, vote on this. We're gonna, everybody's gonna vote on this. We're gonna vote on this because there's been a motion, amendment. We're gonna vote on the amendment and the motion. I'm just saying that's what the ethics committee is supposed to do.
Chair recognized mister Perry.
Speaker 30
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a few times that myself and Mr. Lynch agree on things. I think he would admit that, as I have. But on this occasion, I feel he is correct. And while this committee may have the jurisdiction to do all manner of things, I think this is a dangerous precedent to set.
The ethics committee is set up specifically for this task. And I empathize with representative Mace that it seems like there is no accountability over and over again. And maybe in the case of Representative Omar and Representative Mills, I might even feel that way. But we have a process here for a reason, and the ethics committee is set up the way it is for a reason, so that there is equal representation in a place that is hyperpartisan over the smallest of things. And so that there is due process where American citizens, individuals in this body, and serving members are treated fairly.
That's why we have that committee. And if we're going to run members through a partisan committee, which all the other ones are set up to be so, I think that that's gonna be something that we might enjoy the outcome of at the moment, but we'll not enjoy the outcome at some future time when we're in the minority. And so on this occasion, I agree with mister Lynch, I would encourage the chair to render this motion out of order. And with my remaining time, I would cede some time to mister Lynch.
Speaker 11
I thank the gentleman, and he's correct. We don't agree that often, but I respect the gentleman. The other piece is this, is that anyone in the public can make an allegation of any member here for any reason, political or personal or otherwise. And if we're gonna debate allegations from the public against members of this committee, then you are just exposed to whatever anyone throws at you. And all you gotta do is spend about one minute on social media and think about the cruelty and falsity that can be tossed against any member.
And then what the general lady is saying is that we wanna debate the merits and the veracity of those allegations against us here in an open committee rather than having it go to the ethics committee who will be able to vet those allegations. And then if they are meaningful, bring something before the entire body. But we open every member now and in the future to terrible exposure to your reputation if you're gonna handle every single allegation here in open public regardless of how credible that allegation against a member might be. I just think it's bad for the institution, and there's another process that has worked in the past. Thank you.
I yield back to the gentleman. And I yield, Mister.
Speaker 1
Chairman, who's got the floor? Mister Perry, I yield. And we are you be engaging
Speaker 1
I don't disagree with what Miss Mase is trying to do. I don't disagree with what Mr. Garcia is trying to do. And I don't know, I have no idea what the ethics committee is doing on either of these. But I think it's disappointing that Miss Omar wasn't here for the Minnesota Somali hearing. I mean, that's something I think she should've attended.
And I think Mills should, you know, answer questions on the House floor. I think they both there are a lot of questions American people have for both of them. Alright. So I'm just saying that's what the ethics committee.
Speaker 30
Is it to Somali hearing? Mister chairman, as long as hold on. As long as it was a
Speaker 1
Somali fraud. There was a Somali fraud. There were lots of Somali fraud allegations today.
Speaker 30
Mister chairman, if we can continue our colloquy, you're the chairman of the committee, and you can make a ruling. Now we might disagree with the ruling of the chair, but I would tell you it is my position and my recommendation, humbly and respectfully, to the chair that the chair should render this motion invalid. And if we wanna challenge the ruling of the chair, then we can do that and have a vote on that. But I think this is of substance enough and import enough that we treat it with the gravity that mister Lynch and others have suggested, not only in this circumstance, feeling the same way you do and in total honesty, quite honestly, the same way that representative Mace does about Mhmm. Whether this has been adjudicated appropriately or in a timely manner or what have you.
The point is, is this the place? Is this the process to do those things? And I would agree with my colleagues on either side of the aisle that this is not the place to do what is being implied here in this motion.
Speaker 1
And to answer your question on ruling the chair, you asked the question. That was what Mr. Lincoln started with. We can vote on whatever we want. Then it's in consulting with the parliamentarian, we can vote for this. We can do this.
I'm just saying. That's what the ethics.
Speaker 2
Let me and I think we may have there's a I understand. First, I wanna also associate myself with the comments that were just made, and I particularly with representative Lynch. I think, again, this is not the appropriate place for this. And we have filed the substitute motion because of the main motion that was filed. What I'd like to do at this time is I'm going to withdraw my motion and instead do a motion to table the mace motion.
And if that motion does not pass successfully, then I will bring my substitute motion on Representative Mills back to the floor. But now we have an opportunity with this additional amendment. I'm withdrawing the Mills amendment, and my new motion amendment is to table the initial MACE motion. I hope everyone votes yes on that. I think that solves the issues that a majority of us are trying to solve, and we can move on to the next item.
So that is the new motion.
Speaker 48
Well, this is not about the motion to table. It's about, under the ethics committee, if they find evidence against a member, they can make recommendations for censure, for removal. If we were to conduct something like that here, what power does this committee have? Is it the same powers as the ethics committee? I really agree with mister Perry, mister Lynch, that this might be a bridge too far.
And if we if we're gonna do this, then we need to know what the consequences are going forward for any other member who might, including a member of this committee who might have issues raised. How far does this go?
Speaker 1
Alright. So all those in favor of the motion to table, signify by saying "I."
Speaker 1
All those opposed, say no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, the motion to table is agreed to. Is there any other business which needs to come before the committee? Oh, the pre, okay.
Speaker 1
Chair recognize Mister Higgins, then we'll recognize recognition. Go ahead. You are recognized.
Speaker 38
Mister chairman, this I had endeavored to remain silent, but I'm compelled to clarify for the citizenry watching and to remind my colleagues. Let me just ask you, Mr. Chairman. You're the chairman of the oversight committee. Does this committee enjoy, and do you possess the power to subpoena?
Speaker 38
Thank you very much. Does that authority to subpoena require a vote by this entire committee or debate regarding votes for a subpoena of material or No. Or people?
Speaker 38
So we are a serious investigative committee body, and yet we are presenting to the American people the concept that this is our subpoena procedure, that a member has to present a motion and has to be a vote and absurd debate back and forth, that this is the means by which we determine whether or not a subpoena is issued in the oversight committee. I think it's insulting to the seriousness of the work that we do and that the staff of this committee performs every day. Every day. And seeking a subpoena, might I add, let me just put this out there. It's a furtherance of compulsion.
Listen to your uncle Clay, America. You don't just normally start out with a subpoena introduced as a vote by a member on a guy, this poor guy, Seth Harbour. I don't know who he is. I had to Google him. We haven't reached out to him and asked him to come before this committee, and he said no.
That's normally the first step. You call and email. You have an official communication from the committee reaching out to an American citizen and say, we'd like to talk to you. And as part of our legislative purpose, we're conducting investigative work. You're included.
Will you come talk to us? Then if they say no, you take the next step, which is usually a more strongly worded letter, and then you get to the point where you can rightfully use your subpoena authority in a judicious and conservative manner. And yet, because of the behavior of this committee in recent months, it has been presented to the American people via C SPAN that the way we pursue a subpoena in this committee is by the introduction of a motion for a vote to subpoena something or someone. That's not the way it's done. Mister chairman, I'm voting no on all of this because I object to this process that is false and not reflective of the serious investigative work that the oversight committee performs day in and day out.
And I yield to the chairman.
Speaker 1
Thank you. Thank you, Clay. Very well said. Very well said. Chair recognizes Ms. Presley.
Sorry.
Speaker 3
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My motion to subpoena is pretty straightforward. It's timely and also germane. It's the only subpoena that is relevant to today's hearing. Earlier today, a woman was shot multiple times and killed by immigration enforcement agents in Minnesota while we were holding a hearing on the state.
And while there are claims that ICE did nothing wrong, the officials in Minnesota say otherwise. And since this committee is responsible for oversight of federal law enforcement, we must investigate. This subpoena will help us get to the truth, and it should have bipartisan support. And I urge my colleagues to vote yes.
Speaker 1
Alright. The gentlelady yields back. Any other members seek recognition on the press release?
Speaker 1
Who said? And do we have anybody on our side? Okay. Mr. ranking member. And then I'll go to.
Speaker 2
Thank you. I'll actually just add that I obviously support. Okay. The pressing motion. I think it's relevant to today's conversation, so I want to thank her for the motion. I wanna yield the rest of my time to congressman Christian Murphy, please.
Speaker 51
I just wanted to give a little context to Miss Presley's excellent motion for those who haven't had a chance to see this video. This video from Minnes Minnesota is deeply disturbing. It shows a federal immigration enforcement operation on a residential street in South Minneapolis, where families live. Agents move in on a civilian vehicle. Weapons are drawn.
The car is boxed in. Shots are fired. A woman is struck and dies. And if you look at the video, you can see that the officer actually shoots the woman point blank in front of the windshield. The footage does not show an unavoidable, imminent threat or that lethal force was the only option.
From what can be seen, the woman was trying to drive away. That raises serious questions about judgment and de-escalation. A woman is dead. Her family now carries a permanent loss. This should never have happened.
When federal agents use deadly force, the burden of justification is extraordinarily high, regardless of the mission. Oversight requires sworn testimony. Secretary of Homeland Security Christie Nome must appear before this committee. I will press to subpoena Secretary Nome and force a vote again and again until she explains on the record why a woman is dead following a federal operation captured on video in a residential neighborhood. If Secretary Nome has nothing to hide, she should have nothing to fear from testifying before this committee.
I hope she will come to this committee voluntarily. This committee must do its duty. Thank you. Now yield back.
Speaker 1
Yield back. Any other membership recognition? Mister Chair, recognize Mister Gosar, and then I'll get to Clay.
Speaker 32
Yeah. I, you know, I think the error of what the gentleman is talking about is good, but I think it has to be across the board. And then what I mean by that is that there were instigating factors by the mayor that antagonize the situation. And anybody that if it was found that there's innocence here, then we should presume everybody's innocent till proven guilty, that they also are on the line. That if they combatively took on the police or not just the police, but the oversight folks from immigration, they should be charged as well.
I think it should be open all the way across the board so that it's equal and adjudicated.
Speaker 1
Alright. Do you yield the mister Higgins? Would you yield to the mister Higgins?
Speaker 38
Ahead. Thank you. I thank my colleague, Mr. Chairman. The split second decisions that an officer has to make on the street, man, everything's on the line literally. And whereas I fully support a thorough investigation of this officer-involved shooting and every officer-involved shooting.
I asked my colleagues to back up from this request, and I'm gonna oppose this motion. But, actually, I think it should be withdrawn because I asked my colleagues to look at this motion within the context of what you're actually asking for. You're asking for a slice of evidence, void of the full spectrum of the required investigation. This is the sort of thing that we should absolutely, as a republic, well rooted in criminal justice procedure over the course of 250 of learning and growing and developing as a nation regarding protection of the innocent, which is every American accused of a crime until proven guilty. And the process for investigation should be thorough and slow and calm.
And here we are again. We're leaning towards show me the video.
Speaker 38
Close by saying I'm yield my time back to mister Ghosar. But I'll close my the time has been yielded to me by saying maybe I'm the only guy in here.
Speaker 38
Please respect that. You could be recognized. When you, when you're recognized, you've asked me a question. I'm happy to answer it.
Speaker 38
Maybe I'm the only guy in here that has brought many people in the back of my squad car to jail to be booked. Did the initial arrest? It was not uncommon. Hear me, my colleagues. It was not uncommon from the back seat of my unit.
It would say, show me the video, man. Show me the proof, man. And I would say, sir, this is the arrest part. Later comes the trial part.
Speaker 38
Have a shot to look at all the evidence that the prosecution has. So we're falling into that category of being too quick and cute for our own good here. We should allow the investigative authority under thorough and complete and vigorous oversight by Congress. Yes. But not to the extent that we're interfering with the investigative authority by voting and mandating that evidence of an investigation, a small slice of it, be presented for public purview.
We should be calm and judicious, and I yield the time that was kindly yielded to me back to Mister Gosar.
Speaker 1
Not debatable. Motion has been made by Metro Gosar of tabling the Presley motion. All those in favor of tabling, signify by saying. All those opposed, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion to table is agreed to.
Can we get.
Speaker 52
Mr. Jordan? Yes. Jordan votes yes. Mr. Turner? Mr. Gosar?
Yes. Mr. Gosar votes yes. Miss Fox? Mr. Grossman?
Speaker 52
Mr. Grothman votes yes. Mister Cloud? Yes. Mister Cloud votes yes. Mister Palmer?
Speaker 52
Mr Palmer votes yes. Mister Higgins? Mister Higgins votes yes. Mr. Sessions? Mister Sessions votes yes.
Mister Biggs? Mister Biggs votes aye. Miss Mace? No. Miss Mace votes no.
Mr. Fallon? Aye. Mister Fallon votes aye. Mister Donald's. Mr Perry.
Mr Perry votes aye. Mr. Timmons. Mister Timmons votes aye. Mr. Burchett. Mr. Burchett votes aye.
Miss Bobert? Aye. Miss Bobert votes aye. Miss Luna? Mister Langworthy?
Mr. Burleson. Mr. Burleson votes aye. Mr. Crane. Aye. Mister Crane votes aye.
Mr. Jack.
Speaker 52
Mister McGuire votes aye. Mr. Gill? Mr. Gill votes aye. Mister García? No.
Mister García votes no. Miss Norton? No. Miss Norton votes no. Mister Lynch?
No. Mister Lynch votes no. Mister Krishnamurthi? No. Mister Krishnamurthi votes no.
Mr Khanna? No. Mr. Khanna votes no. Mister Mfume? No.
Mister Mfume votes no. Miss Brown? Miss Stansbury? Miss Stansbury votes no. Mister Frost?
No. Mister Frost votes no. Miss Lee? No. Miss Lee votes no.
Mister Kassar? Mister Kassar votes no. Miss Crockett? No. Miss Crockett votes no.
Miss Randall? No. Miss Randall votes no. Mister Subramanyam? Mister Subermanyam votes no.
Miss Ansari? No. Miss Ansari votes no. Mister Bell? No.
Mr Bell votes no. Miss Simon? No. Miss Simon votes no. Mister Min?
No. Mister Min votes no. Mr Walkinshaw? Mister Walkinshaw votes no. Miss Presley.
Miss Presley votes no. Miss Talib. Miss Talib votes no. Mister chairman. Yes.
Mister chairman, votes yes.
Speaker 1
Has any member not voted or any member wish to change their vote? Seeing none, will the clerk tally the vote?
Speaker 1
The motion to table fails, and we will proceed to assume vote unless people wanna debate this more.
Speaker 20
Miss, Mister Fallon, go ahead. Chairman, I'll be very brief because it's been a long day for all of us. Listen. I'm all for transparency. This incident, as the member from Massachusetts said, this isn't it just happened today.
I'd like to give DHA DHS a chance to release anything related to this. This is a very serious matter. I've only seen one video myself. I've heard that there are other angles. So I'd like to see the process play out.
And this is, I think this is out of order, and it's not our role. So I agree, yes, that we need to learn the truth and see all the evidence. But I'm gonna trust the process, and I yield back.
Speaker 34
Fairly quick. I support the subpoena. Thereafter, the first two videos went viral, there's a third video that appeared to show the ICE agent being struck by the vehicle. My understanding is, he is in the hospital now. And so, I think getting it out there on what happened, again, sunlight.
Speaker 34
The best disinfectant. But I also wanna recognize, as I'm supporting this subpoena, why this happened, why we're here today is because for years now, ICE agents, police officers, conservatives, Republicans have been dehumanized. ICE agents have been called Nazis, fascists. Today, we heard the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walls, literally try to incite violence, a riot, and war against the federal government today. You heard the mayor of Minneapolis drop the f-bomb.
And so when I hear my colleagues across the other side of the aisle, about judgment and de-escalation. We are the ones that have been judged. I fall ICE officers have been judged. The de-escalation isn't happening. This violent rhetoric is called causing violence, and people feel emboldened to be violent.
The other thing I want to mention is that today, Kristy Nome, bring her to the committee. I support that. She did address this today, what happened in public. It was one of the first things she talked about this afternoon, right after it happened. I believe within an hour or two, she very publicly provided an answer that was clear and detailed on what happened and why.
But I would encourage everyone to think about why we're here today. I mean, and this kind of rhetoric has just got to stop, but release it all. Release all the camera footage, body cam. I'm all for it, and I'll be voting for it. Thank you, and I'll yield back.
Speaker 1
Gentle lady yields back. Chair, reckon, okay. Recognize reckon member, then we'll go to Burchett.
Speaker 2
Thank you. No. I'm just gonna say that, obviously, the motion to table didn't go through, and oversight Democrats are ready to vote on the motion.
Speaker 1
We're voting on a motion to subpoena a pressly motion to subpoena the Department of Homeland Security for all documents and footage related to the murder of a woman by ICE in Minneapolis, Minnesota, today.
Speaker 33
Chair, I just wanna be clear because I'm not sure if it's stated in the motion, and you failed to read it. But I would like the record to reflect that the woman who was killed, her name is Renée Nicole Good. So that, hopefully, we won't have any confusion about.
Speaker 1
It's not in the motion. But if the question's been called for, we're gonna vote on this. The clerk called the roll.
Speaker 52
Mister Jordan votes no. Mr. Turner. Mr. Gosar. No. Mister Gosar votes no.
Miss Fox. Mr. Grothman. Mr. Grothman votes no. Mister Cloud? Mister Cloud votes no.
Mr Palmer? Mr Palmer votes no. Mister Higgins? Mister Higgins? Mister Higgins votes no.
Mr. Sessions? Mister Sessions votes no. Mister Biggs? No. Mister Biggs votes no.
Miss Mace.
Speaker 52
Perry votes no. Mr. Timmons. No. Mister Timmons votes no. Mr. Burchett.
Mister Burchett votes no. Miss Bobert. Miss Bobert votes no. Miss Luna. Mr. Langworthy.
Mr. Burleson. Mister Burleson votes no. Mr. Crane. Mister Crane votes no. Mr. Jack.
No. Mister Jack votes no. Mister McGill? Excuse me. Mister McGuire?
No. Mister McGuire votes no. Mister Gill?
Speaker 52
Miss Norton votes yes. Mister Lynch? Yes. Mr Lynch votes yes. Mister Krishnamurthi?
Mister Krishnamorthi votes yes. Mister Khana?
Speaker 52
Mister Kana votes yes. Mister Infume? Yes. Mister Infume votes yes. Miss Brown?
Miss Stansbury? Miss Stansbury votes yes. Mister Frost?
Speaker 52
Mr. Frost votes yes. Miss Lee? Yes. Lee votes yes. Mister Kassar?
Yes. Kassar votes yes. Miss Crockett? Miss Crockett votes yes. Miss Randall?
Yes. Miss Randall votes yes. Mister Subramanyam? Yes. Mister Subermanyam votes yes.
Miss Ansari? Yes. Miss Ansari votes yes. Mister Bell? Yes.
Mister Bell votes yes. Miss Simon? Yes. Miss Simon votes yes. Mister Min?
Mister Min votes yes. Mister Walkinshaw? Yes. Mister Walkinshaw votes yes. Miss Presley?
Yes. Presley votes yes. Miss Talib? Yes. Miss Talib votes yes.
Mister Chairman? No. Mister Chairman, votes no.
Speaker 1
Does any other member wish to vote? If not, does any member wish to change your vote? Seeing none, the clerk will tally the vote.
Speaker 1
It is a tie, so the motion fails. Does any other member have any business before the committee? Seeing none, with that and without objection, all members have five legislative days within which to submit materials and additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be forwarded to the witnesses. If there are no further business, without objection, the committee stands adjourned.
Ask anything about this video — I analyse its transcript to answer.