Examining VA Benefits: Pension and Fiduciary, and VA Life Insurance Options
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House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Disability Assistance and Memorial Affairs U.S. House of Representatives
Follow its sittingsMorgan McGarvey
So, I'm glad we're doing it today. And I think that on this subcommittee, you're going to find we do generally good work, and we work together to make sure that we are doing exactly what you've heard both of us say: putting the veteran at the heart of what we do. We try to conduct real oversight. We try to stay away from some of the theater that you might see, especially in something like this, because it's important. We're good at keeping the veterans at the heart of what we do.
And I think that's especially important as we talk about today's topic, because although pensions and insurance and fiduciaries might seem like sort of dry topics, there is a really painful story and reality behind so many of these numbers.
When you think about someone who receives a life insurance payment, that is someone who has lost a loved one. When you think about someone who's in the fiduciary program, that is someone who is really struggling and in pain and in need of help. When you think about someone who's in the pension program, this is, we're usually talking about a veteran. We're usually talking about someone who is in the later stages of life who is facing real financial strain and difficulty. We gotta make sure that these programs continue to exist, continue to thrive for the people who need them, for the stories behind these numbers.
On the insurance program specifically, I'm happy that this portion of the hearing isn't being driven by bad headlines or incriminating IG reports, but rather because Congress is actually doing some forward-leaning oversight for a change. I think that's how it should be. And although I will also mention that I do intend to engage the Government Accountability Office to do a deeper dive into these programs, I hope you'll join me in that effort, Mr. Chairman. I'm eager to hear from you all today and to learn more about how this program supports our veterans, active duty service members, and their families. Shifting to the pension and the fiduciary programs, these are areas, unfortunately, that have been in the news for the wrong reasons.
They've been the focus of multiple Inspector General reports. And all too often, we see criminal behavior in these programs. Just this past February, there was a report of a fiduciary stealing more than $158,000 from elderly and ill veterans. That is beyond unacceptable. And it's exactly why this kind of oversight matters.
The people in this, these programs are some of the most vulnerable people that the VA serves. And to see someone who is taking advantage of people who are uniquely vulnerable is obviously despicable and something we all agree we want to root out. So the VA's got to have strong protections in place to make sure that these veterans are not being made victims. And the people who try to defraud them are being held fully accountable. But in their testimony for today's hearing, the VA just gave us five paragraphs, mostly basic overviews of what these programs are and how they work.
There's very little about actual oversight. It gives me a little pause that the VA is simply stating what the programs are and that they are being modernized. We're talking about a system that some of the nation's most vulnerable veterans rely on. So to see IG reports titled, quote, "Lapse in Fiduciary Program Oversight Puts Some Veterans at Risk," and quote, "Failure to Flag Fiduciaries Who Are Removed Results in Risk to Vulnerable Beneficiaries," also makes me deeply concerned. We need more from the VA than bare-bones information on these topics.
We need real, honest accounting of the challenges of running these programs, the risks involved in running these programs, and the work being done to protect veterans, their families, and taxpayer dollars. I'm glad we're holding this oversight hearing today, both for a program that rarely makes the news and another that when it does make the news, makes bad news. This won't be our end of, this won't be the end of our work on this and on these programs. Mr. Chairman, I am excited to continue this oversight and work with you today. Thank you, and I yield back.
Tim Sirhal
Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. I would like to welcome our first panel. We appreciate your time and your willingness to speak candidly about these programs. Today on the panel, we have Mr. Tim Sirhal, Acting Principal Deputy Under Secretary for Benefits, Veterans Benefits Administration, and Ms. Jennifer Bauer, Executive Director, Pension and Fiduciary Services, Veterans Benefits Administration. Thank you again.
I ask that you both stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the pension, fiduciary, and insurance programs within the Veterans Benefits Administration. I appreciate the committee's continued commitment to improving the lives of our nation's veterans, their families, and their survivors. Joining me today from the Veterans Benefits Administration is Ms. Jennifer Bover, Executive Director, Pension and Fiduciary Service. At VA, we take our responsibility to serve and protect veterans and their families very seriously, especially those who may be more vulnerable and need extra support. For example, VA's pension program offers vital assistance to veterans and their survivors, particularly in their time of need.
In fiscal year 2025, VA provided over $2.8 billion in benefits to more than 200,000 beneficiaries. Through the dedication and hard work of employees and our leadership teams, we've taken great strides to expedite the delivery of these critical benefits. As a result, we have reduced processing times by more than 110 days for veterans' pension claims, by more than 100 days for survivors' pension claims, and by more than 90 days for dependency and indemnity compensation claims, all while upholding quality standards with an accuracy rate of 96%. Veterans' pension claims are currently being completed in 57 days on average, and VA is completing survivors' pension and dependency and indemnity compensation claims in 73 days on average. Another way VA protects veterans and survivors is through the fiduciary program.
The program supports more than 104,000 veterans and survivors who are unable to manage their own VA monetary payments. VA appoints and oversees fiduciaries to manage the VA monetary benefits in the best interests of the veteran or survivor. VA also oversees several life insurance programs that provide valuable financial security for service members, veterans, and their families. Programs open to new applicants include Servicemembers' Group Life Insurance for those currently serving, Veterans' Group Life Insurance for those transitioning out of service, and our newest program, Veterans Affairs Life Insurance, or VA Life, open to all service-connected veterans. VA Life launched in January of 2023.
Each applicant can elect up to $40,000 in coverage at any time up to age 80. We designed the VA Life application process to be quick and transparent. On average, it takes just 11 minutes to apply and confirm coverage online, and more than 90% of applications are automated. VA is proud to share that the VA Life program has been a tremendous success. Currently, there are approximately 80,000 active policies totaling $2.5 billion in coverage.
Customer satisfaction is a top priority. Recent surveys show that well over 80% of respondents saying they are highly satisfied, and applications received are close to double those of the Service-Disabled Veterans Insurance program that the VA Life program replaced. Importantly, 80% of veterans insured under VA Life are 70% or more service-connected, meaning that the program is operating as designed to ensure those most in need or who are more likely to struggle finding insurance coverage in the market can get their coverage through VA. Overall, VA is deeply committed to serving and protecting veterans and their families while ensuring we are efficient in delivering on our promises. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your oversight of these critical programs and for the opportunity to speak with you today.
My colleague, Ms. Bover, and I welcome any questions that you or other members of the subcommittee may have.
Morgan McGarvey
The written statement of Mr. Sirhal will be entered into the hearing record. I now recognize the ranking member for five minutes of questioning.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Sirhal, the Fairness for Servicemembers Act was signed into law last December and requires the VA to review insurance coverage amounts every five years and report to Congress about adjusting those amounts for inflation. The first review and report were due in January 2026 this year, but Congress still hasn't received it. So when can we expect that review to be finished and the information sent to Congress?
Tim Sirhal
Thank you for that question, sir. The review is complete. It has not been provided yet. We will look into, I will look into why it has not been provided yet, but the analysis has been completed by the actuaries.
Morgan McGarvey
Thank you. And sometimes we agree up here on what we call government speak. And saying I'm going to look into it, that is something we hear a lot. Who has that report and how do we get a hold of it?
Tim Sirhal
The team that is under me generates the information for that report and then puts it through for release. The analysis has been completed.
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. So we need that report because it was due to us by January. And again, I wasn't actually planning on this being adversarial at all, but it's your team, your team underneath you has completed the report. You don't have the report?
I do not have the report.
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. But you should have the report. Right? If it's been completed and it was due to us in January, you should have it at least.
Tim Sirhal
It should be with the department for final review.
Okay. Bureau of the final review, your signature is the one that's going to send that to us. Forgive me.
No, no, please, Mr. Chairman.
Tim Sirhal
This is what the ranking member was talking about. You're playing a chess game with us. That's not going to work in this committee, sir. You're the official signature on the bottom of that report since your team's the one that created it. And you either handed it off, you can't say you handed it off to the department.
You mean you gave it to the Secretary and he's the one that has not given it to us? That's not how this works either. You're responsible for this department and that report was due to us. And we can play this game for a very long time, sir, and we can make it very uncomfortable in here. So I think the answer to your question is, sir, most likely is, Mr. Ranking Member, I'll have that to you by the end of the day, if you will.
I'll let you answer that question.
Speaker 12
I will find out where the report is and make sure it is given to you as soon as I possibly can.
When you say as soon as you possibly can, in your calendar what does that look like? Because for me that means when you walk out of here.
Tim Sirhal
I will make the appropriate phone calls as soon as I walk out of here to try to move it.
Morgan McGarvey
Because it was due in January. And you've seen it and you've cleared it. I mean, I think that's kind of what we're getting at here. If you told me it's not finished yet, we would have been like, please get that finished, can we be pushing you, we need a date, it was due in January. But you're telling me it's finished, you've seen it, you've cleared it, you don't know who has it, you don't know where it is, but we'll get it somehow, some way, somehow, at some point.
Which I hope you see why that seems evasive to us.
Tim Sirhal
It's not my intent to be evasive, sir. The actuaries have completed the information, the information has been validated by our financial folks, it is being cleared before it is released. I will find out where it is.
Speaker 16
You're the guy. And you said that. Now if you want to take that back you can, if you were just trying to hope we weren't paying attention. Or is there a signature on there that we need, that you need, that you're not telling us?
Speaker 25
I mean there's no, I will find out where the report is and what signature's missing that needs to be on there before it gets released to you. I promise that.
Morgan McGarvey
I'll say we could do this all day long and we might come back to this even. I think what you're hearing from both of us, again, I'm going to go back to what I said in the opening. This isn't, we're not, I in no way intended for this to be adversarial. I expected just kind of a plain answer. I'm surprised at the answer I've been given.
The report exists, it's finished, it's your team, you've cleared it, but we don't have it and you don't know where it is and you can't tell us when we're going to get it. And for us, that's not acceptable. Because again, these reports, these audits, the reason this is a five-year oversight, why we're supposed to see this is because it takes care of our veterans. And sometimes we get really frustrated with the VA because it seems like a black hole. And what we really want and what we might even get from you offline before we get out of here is exactly when, and I'm talking like today, tomorrow, by the end of the week, when we get that report, especially if it's finished.
That's what we need. Because he and I and Mr. Self here have to answer these questions to every single person that is sitting behind you right now. And we do. And they deserve those answers. And I can assure you sometimes the conversation is way more abrasive than what you're receiving right now.
And because you're doing this to us, you're going to hear this from me as the chairman. Don't dance around these answers and hope that we're not paying attention, sir. Do you understand?
Tim Sirhal
Because the department in its history will come to these hearings and then walk out and that's the end of it. And that's not something the ranking member and I tolerate. Do you understand, sir?
Sir, I fully understand and you have my commitment, I will find out what is missing from that.
Speaker 6
I will hold a hearing every single day with you. I will make this so uncomfortable if you choose to come in here and do this dance with me. Do you understand?
Yes, sir.
Morgan McGarvey
Thank you. Couple more questions and I'll yield back because I know we've got stuff to do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Shaw, I'm going to ask you a few more questions. I am from Kentucky, it's a southern state, sometimes people ask questions they mean as statements.
These are actual questions, I don't know the answer to these questions and would love to get answers to these questions.
In your testimony, you state that there are approximately 104,000 beneficiaries in the fiduciary program. How many total fiduciaries represent the 104,000 beneficiaries?
I would refer that question to Ms. Boever.
Thank you for that question, sir. There's about 76,000 fiduciaries that oversee about the 104,000 veterans and beneficiaries in the program.
Morgan McGarvey
Thank you for that. And I was looking through this stuff getting ready for the hearing and I'm just curious about how this program actually operates. Is there a maximum number of beneficiaries a fiduciary may represent?
Jennifer Bover
Thank you for that question, sir. I had a similar one when I first took over this position a little less than six months ago. There is not a maximum, but there are additional oversight measures that are put in place if a fiduciary has more than one beneficiary.
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. And this is again, just this is a legit question. In your experience, do you think there should be a maximum? Or is the monitoring program you have right now, do you think that's sufficient?
Based on what I know about the program right now, no matter how many beneficiaries a fiduciary may have, each beneficiary deserves to receive the same level of care. And if we find through our oversight measures that that same level of care does not exist, we move to take appropriate actions.
Jennifer Bover
So we can find that out through a number of different ways. One of the ways is every single year, each beneficiary receives a letter from us reminding them that they're in the fiduciary program, letting them know what their rights are, and letting them know to contact us if they think anything isn't working as they think it should or they're not receiving the care that they believe they should. They also receive a phone call from us as well as an in-person visit, and that alternates every year as well. And then for our fiduciaries, we have oversight measures where they have to complete certain actions in a timely manner. So there are annual accountings where they must tell us how that money is being spent.
We can do fund usage reports, which is three months' worth of bank statements. And we also do in-person site visits with them as well as appropriate.
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. And I'll just ask one more question and yield back to you, Mr. Chairman. We might have time for more questions later. Has the fiduciary program or the Office of Inspector General found that fraud and abuse is more or less likely with what we would consider, for lack of a better word, professional fiduciaries as opposed to like family members or loved ones?
Jennifer Bover
I'm not sure I have the exact answer to your question, sir, to be honest with you. But what I can tell you is that we always aim to assign the fiduciary of the veteran or beneficiary's choosing. And so that may be a spouse, a family member, a friend. And as a last resort is when we assign professional fiduciaries. And I can tell you that it's less than 2% of all fiduciaries are professional.
Speaker 15
Thank you for that. And Mr. Chairman, before I yield back, I would just be remiss if I didn't say, Mr. Sirhal, we need that report. And we need to know exactly when we're going to get it. I yield back.
Keith Self
Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. Mr. Self, you're recognized for five minutes, sir.
Is this report in one of your bosses' offices and you have no control over it? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Sirhal, I'm going to throw you a lifeline here. From your answers, I'm trying to parse them.
Sir, the analysis is complete on the report.
Speaker 17
No, my answer is a yes or no question. I'm trying to throw you a lifeline here. And if it's not a lifeline, just let me know. Is it in one of your bosses' offices?
Tim Sirhal
I will confirm what is pending signature and what is pending review.
I can assure you, you're about, I'm about to get a hold of you again. Okay? Now, if we are in a place where we can no longer hold this committee hearing because you are way outside your comfort zone and don't want to give us our answers, then I'll do that. And I warned you earlier, sir, not to play this chess game with me. Okay?
Are we clear?
Sir, I assure you I'm not trying to play a chess game.
Keith Self
Myself. I agree with the chairman. When you come here, we kind of need, we ask simple direct questions, we need simple direct answers. So I want to talk about the veteran engaged in asset transfer to meet the pension requirements. Okay?
Now, if my memory serves me correct, there are a couple of elder benefits that it is perfectly acceptable to divest yourself of your assets in order to meet the criteria. So are we talking about a true transfer, true asset transfer here, in other words, giving it all to your kids, your grandkids or something, or are we suggesting that you're hiding your assets in order to meet the criteria?
I will defer that question to Ms. Boever.
Jennifer Bover
Thank you for that question, sir. In terms of the three-year look-back, that is to ensure that the beneficiaries, the veterans or the survivors are receiving the needs-based benefit that they have earned and making sure that their income and net worth limitations are under the rate that is set by Congress every year, sir.
Keith Self
I'm trying to determine if this is consistent with our other policies in elder benefits. But this three-year look-back and the criteria, is this a statute or is this a rule in the VA? Okay, I'm not sure that answers the question. This requirement for no more than $163,699. Is that statute or is that rule?
Jennifer Bover
I'm going to need to look into that and get back to you to find out if it's in a statute or if it's something that the VA did prior to my time to be able to ensure that the veterans and the survivors were receiving the right amount of needs-based benefit based on their assets that they have.
Keith Self
Okay, so the veteran and I think this is true, can be banned for up to five years if they are not meeting the actual requirement. Is that correct?
Keith Self
Let's move on to something you might be able to answer. Your VA life risk. We like to talk about outputs here. Let me get to the right document here. You've got, you're very satisfied with, you now have 2.5 billion in coverage, but you don't tell us and people are very satisfied with it, 82.6% are very satisfied with it.
What is the loss ratio on this? What is the risk to the federal government? How does this, how does the loss ratio work in this particular insurance policy?
Tim Sirhal
Thank you for that question, sir. VALife policies are whole life policies, so they build cash value. The program by statute must be self-supporting, which it is. Our reserves have been building over the last three years since January '23, so we have the appropriate reserves for the number of folks in the program, which is approximately 80,000.
Tim Sirhal
Yes, sir. We have an actuary team who sets that every year and revisits premiums every year to ensure that premiums and expenses align with the appropriate reserves.
Tim Sirhal
Mr. Surhals, since the SGLI and the VGLI programs were created in 1965 and respectively 1974, has VA ever sought additional insurance providers outside of Prudential to provide coverage to veterans? And if not, why?
Thank you for that question, sir. I cannot attest to whether there was competes 15, 20 years ago, but I can tell you that there has not been formal market research in the last 10 years. That program, the SGLI and VGLI program, under the current construct, has been able to consistently increase coverage available, most recently in 2023 with 500,000 and...
Tim Sirhal
While testing the market could bring advantages, doing so would just have to be done very carefully so as not to inadvertently disadvantage those veterans in the program.
I think the transition from one program to another, if it was more cost-effective for the VA but more beneficial for the veteran, would make sense. Has your office competed that in any way since you've been in this seat?
Our office has done initial research.
What does that mean?
Tim Sirhal
It means that we've validated that under the current statutory construct, very few companies would be eligible to compete for the product, and our office has also done analysis to ensure that administrative costs at Prudential are...
So Prudential's been there since 1965, so they're so dug in on this after so many years, no other company can carry that kind of weight.
Sir, the statute has requirements of who's even eligible.
Say that one more time?
Tim Sirhal
The statute has requirements on what companies could even compete, and it's less than 10.
Tim Sirhal
Based on our analysis. The requirements are, and they're pretty simple requirements, but they're difficult to satisfy. A company can only compete for this product if they're licensed to issue insurance in every state and DC, and they have 1% or more of the total group policy life insurance in place in the nation. So it's essentially the top...
How often do we compete this?
Since 1974.
Tim Sirhal
To my knowledge it has not. I do not know if there was an effort made prior to that time or prior to the last...
So Congress needs to request a report to see if there's any other company besides Prudential that can lower the cost for the VA and increase the benefits for our veterans. Is that what you're telling me? Out of the 10 that you said exist.
Sir, we have looked into and conduct robust oversight. We're very comfortable with our level of oversight. As I noted, testing the market, there can definitely be advantages to that.
However, we want to be sure that in doing so, we don't inadvertently do more harm than good by disrupting this important benefit, which I will have to note that in the VGLI program, for example, that there is no underwriting for the first 240 days. And not only is there no underwriting, there's also no health questions, which is very unique, and the private insurers are not used to doing typically, even in insurance programs in the private industry where they say there's no underwriting, there's still health questions.
All right, just to clarify something for me. So we haven't competed this contract since 1974.
That is correct.
And we're okay with that.
Tim Sirhal
We are okay with the level of oversight and the performance of Prudential. Is there an opportunity to test the market to see if there's improvements? Yes, there is that opportunity, and we believe... But we haven't done that. We have not done that as of now.
That's almost 50-something years, right? We might want to take a look at that. What is the conversion rate of transition from SGLI coverage to VGLI coverage?
Thank you for that question. In general, VGLI, the application rates are around 23 to 25,000 a year, and the conversion rate is around between 8 and 12%.
But it doesn't make sense to have more options inside the coverage network to lower rates. Obviously not since we haven't done it in over 50-something years.
I will say, sir, that the current construct allows us to focus our oversight on Prudential so that we can ensure that their rates are competitive, and VA sets the rates, which we've been able to drop consistently over the years. Our last time in July 2025, we dropped the rates for all active duty service members, all veterans, all spouses, and it should save them, based on our projections, over $2 billion over the next 10 years.
That's great. I mean, those are fantastic numbers. I just, out of morbid curiosity, I would think there are, out of the other 10 that are, that exist, that could possibly do this, could it be better? But we don't know that because we haven't done it in over 50-something years.
The one other note I could make, if you wouldn't mind, is because the contract was put in place in 1965, without getting into the details here in a public forum, there are advantageous provisions in that contract.
Are they classified?
Tim Sirhal
It's not classified, but there is advantageous provisions in that contract, so I would want to be very careful not to disrupt that and inadvertently put VA in a position where we had less bargaining power if we were to either engage with Prudential or test the market.
Morgan McGarvey
I feel like I should unpack that. 1965. Okay. Almost 60 years. Goodness gracious.
Yeah. All right, thank you. I'm going to kind of go into an area that the chairman was just getting into a little bit as well, and this is about the life insurance program. I want to raise a real concern I have about the transition from S-D-V-I to VA Life. And, you know, kind of what you're, I hope you're gathering from this committee, this committee is not about scoring points or getting one over on one another.
This is about doing what's right for our veterans, our men and women who put on that uniform, put that flag on their shoulder and said, we're going to, we're going to serve and be willing to sacrifice everything to keep this country safe and free. When the grace period expired, veterans lost the ability to keep their existing SDVI coverage during the two-year waiting period before VA Life coverage began. Now, that created a coverage gap. So, I understand, and I grant you this, it is one thing to apply a two-year waiting period to new applicants, people who were not previously enrolled in an insurance plan. It's a totally different thing to talk about people who are doing the right thing, who were carrying life insurance, who were paying their premiums, but then are being told that they have to go without coverage for two years before the new plan kicks in.
That's administrative. Right? That's not acceptable. And I don't think we should put our veterans at that sort of risk, a two-year gap, and we all know a lot can happen in two years just because of an administrative change. So, has the VA tracked how many SDVI policyholders have switched to VA Life insurance since January when the ability to carry both policies expired?
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. Okay, and this is one we want those numbers, and I understand you don't have it today, but we want it and we want it soon, as you can gather. You know, just a couple of quick things I wanted to get to in our first round of questioning. Go back to the fiduciaries. And, you know, obviously this is something I'm very concerned about because for a veteran who is using a fiduciary, that is someone who's in trouble, right?
You know, they're in crisis. They have something in their life where they need a fiduciary to handle their affairs. But I want to talk about what's happening when fiduciaries are assigned to minors, minors related to veterans, because, you know, obviously there's a lot of opportunity for potential wrongdoing or abuse in that type of system. How often does the VA review the finances of a fiduciary assigned to a minor?
Jennifer Bover
So, thank you for that question. So, all of our fiduciaries do, we do have oversight over all of the fiduciaries. And so there are, for example, annual accountings that we would do, and then we assign a fiduciary for a minor as it's based in statute.
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. And again, I'm asking you legit questions. You guys are the experts on this. We're just trying to make sure our veterans and their families are taken care of. And tell us if you don't think this is the case.
Like, we want to help. Do you think that's often enough?
Jennifer Bover
So, I think the oversight procedures that we do have in place, you know, I've mentioned some of the accountings and fund usage reports and insight visits, also reaching out to the beneficiaries themselves, not if they're a minor. And we also run clear reports on them every single year just to make sure that nothing has changed in their life that may lead them down a path that's not acceptable. So, and we also try to assign the fiduciary of the beneficiary's choosing. So, I do believe the oversight that we have is adequate and that we have to continue with what we're doing to ensure that every single veteran and beneficiary is being well taken care of and that their funds are being well managed for their own benefit.
Morgan McGarvey
Thanks. And that's what I mean, these aren't trick questions, right? Like, if you think it's adequate and it's working, we want to know that. If you don't think it's adequate, we want to get you what you need to make sure that it's adequate. I think, Mr. Chairman, I can, I think we can stop there.
Mr. Self.
Keith Self
Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Sirhal, the criteria used to determine when a beneficiary requires a fiduciary. What due process protections are in place, and specifically, I want to talk about the, in the past, the allegations that someone that might have been able to handle his finances had a fiduciary because of other factors. So, criteria, due process, and exactly who gets a fiduciary.
Tim Sirhal
Sir, I can address parts one and two of that question, and part three I'll defer to Ms. Boever. No fiduciary should be appointed unless there's medical evidence of their incompetency to handle their VA funds, and I will make that distinction. The medical determination is only about managing VA funds; it does not extend beyond that into your ability to conduct yourself in any other way. And as far as the due process, prior to any finding of a need for a fiduciary, there is a due process period. It's at least 60 days.
After the expiration of that 60-day notice, the veteran or beneficiary could submit any information or evidence to dispute and show that they in fact can handle their funds. And after that point, if the incompetency rating is completed, it is referred to the fiduciary hub, who then finds a fiduciary and works with the veteran or beneficiary. As far as the process once the referral happens to the fiduciary hub, I will defer that to Ms. Boever.
So, to assign a fiduciary, we have to first do our due diligence to make sure that the right person is assigned that can appropriately care for that veteran or beneficiary. So we do a criminal background check on the fiduciary as well as a credit history check. In addition, we personally meet with the...
Keith Self
No, I'm sorry. My question deals with the veteran him or herself. Is it only, do you decide on mental acuity, or are there other factors outside of a mental acuity to handle financial funds that you might assign a fiduciary?
Jennifer Bover
So, the VA doesn't necessarily make that determination. We are taking the medical evidence, as Mr. Sirhal said. So there, for example, a doctor may state that a particular veteran or beneficiary, for whatever reason, is not able to manage their VA finances, and that's what we use as our evidence to make a decision. So we don't override what a medical doctor would say.
Speaker 28
Okay. Mr. Sirhal, how many allegations of misconduct have you received in the last year in the fiduciary world?
Thank you for that question. On average, we have about 165 cases a year that are substantiated for misuse.
Jennifer Bover
Thank you for asking that. I think first and foremost, as we've talked about, we're always looking out for the best interests of our veterans and beneficiaries.
So if misuse is substantiated, the the most important thing to know is that that veteran or or beneficiary is made whole, meaning they get that money back. Additionally, when that happens, we also refer all of these cases to the Office of Inspector General, and if there's a surety bond on the financial account, we will go after getting back that money through the surety bond. We also encourage anytime that somebody believes that some kind of misuse has happened to report that to the Federal Trade Commission as well.
Keith Self
Okay, Mr. Serrell, last in my last 30 seconds, why does VA allow surviving spouses who remarry but later to divorce to reapply for DIC and survivor's pension?
Jennifer Bover
So I think your question was if there is a survivor that is currently receiving pension or DIC, I believe your question was what happens if they remarry, is that correct, sir?
Keith Self
No, it's a surviving spouse who remarries and then divorces can reapply for the benefits. Yes, sir. Surviving spouse. Yes, sir. Do you believe that that's what Congress intended with the black and white letter law?
I believe that what we all want is for veter- surviving spouses to receive earned benefits.
Keith Self
Well, the question is earned benefits when they remarry are terminated.
Jennifer Bover
There are remarriage restrictions for both our dependency and indemnity compensation as well as our pension benefits. So for pension benefits, if they remarry at any age, they lose that benefit. For dependency and indemnity compensation, if they remarry before the age of 55, they lose that benefit, sir.
Right. My time is up without answers, Chairman. I yield back.
Tim Sirhal
You know, if the VA just let them keep it and didn't take it away from them in the first place, we wouldn't have that problem. Thank you, Mr. Self. Ms. Boever, what do you believe are the biggest communication challenges for surviving spouses and what they face with the VA today?
Jennifer Bover
So I think this is an area that the VA has made tremendous strides in over the past year. I can tell you since I've been-
Over the past year?
Since I've been here, well, the last six months, I have done my part in ensuring that I'm actively engaging with the survivor community to hear what their concerns are and take action on their concerns. We want nothing more than to ensure that they know about what benefits they're eligible for and they're able to apply for them.
Tim Sirhal
How are we doing that? Generationally, it can be challenging. The younger the younger generation, and I don't mean any disrespect when I say this, but the younger generation is very engaged in digital media. The older generation may not be. How are we touching them both?
Jennifer Bover
I appreciate that question. So while VA is moving more towards a digital platform, we still have our paper. So we still send things out via mail. Surviving spouses are still able to come and see us in one of our public contact team units in person.
There's one in every state. And so for those that are comfortable, there is online resources. They can apply online for all of our benefits, research our benefits. For those that are not comfortable, again, we do have paper forms of paper of the explaining those benefits.
Tim Sirhal
I'm sure the digital pipeline is very streamlined. It's start to finish from the spouse to whomever's on the on the receiving end. What does the paper trail look like? How many hands does that have to go through because then it has to be inputted digitally from somebody internal to the VA, correct?
Jennifer Bover
So I'll I'll answer that twofold. If the if the if the surviving spouse goes online to va.gov and applies, that information is automatically received by the VA to be worked. If they choose to fill out a paper form and mail that, that goes to our scanning vendor and our scanning vendor then scans that and puts that into our system. So if something is mailed, right, we have that delay of the postal service. And so it is a little bit quicker if they go online.
And if they don't have those resources, to your point, sir, we can assist them with that in one of our public contact team units in every state, or we also encourage them to work with an amazing veteran service organization.
Tim Sirhal
How does the VA respond and how long to a to a spouse that submits it through the mail? Do they they'll have to obviously respond with a letter. So if it when it hits the VA, then it has to be scanned in. And then once it's scanned in, it'll be they'll populate a report or that says, hey, this is done, and then that report has to be mailed back to the spouse, correct?
No, no, no, not online, just snail mail.
Jennifer Bover
Right, even yes, sir, either way that they apply, we are providing those decisions about a hundred days sooner and those benefits are getting into their hands well with under ninety days.
Tim Sirhal
I'm kind of running in a different lane all of a sudden, I apologize. I want some of the questions that we get is I'm not getting any response from the VA that this has been done. So my again, my question is if if snail mail comes in and is scanned into the system, now they're in the system, but they don't know that. Does the VA populate a letter and mail it back to them or are they just kind of...
Jennifer Bover
Great question, sir. So years ago, because processing times were so high, there used to be a lot of different communication going out so that people knew that they were not forgotten and that their claim was being processed. Because we are processing claims so quickly now as well as accurately, they do not receive as much communication because that time span has greatly shortened.
Tim Sirhal
Okay, you're still you're still kind of dancing around my question here. How does my mother, who doesn't know how to turn on a computer, receive a response from the VA in the mail, or will she receive a a letter in the mail from the VA that we have scanned your information and it is in the system?
Jennifer Bover
Because we're processing those cases so quickly now, a lot of those interim communication points are no longer existing. However, when a decision is made, they will receive something via paper, sir.
Does that mean no? I'm sorry.
Speaker 37
Yeah, when a decision is made, but not, hey, we have received your letter.
Tim Sirhal
Correct. Help me out on this because where I where I live, it is country, all right? And my veterans, which I have forty thousand veterans in my district, and some of their biggest complaints to me is like, I don't know if the VA's has received me.
Jennifer Bover
And so one of the advances that we've made or changes we've made over the last year, especially with our dependency and indemnity compensation cases, is that we are reaching out via telephone personally to these survivors. So if we are missing information, we are reaching out and making sure that they understand what they need to get us so that we can quickly provide them the earned benefits that they have.
Tim Sirhal
Okay, I think we've got kind of an every district's different. Some of my folks don't have telephone, oddly enough, and they absolutely do not have cell phone. I live, that's the kind of folks that I represent and they are all in. Do I need to have my VA, how does, they're not getting the information, I guess is basically how I'm saying this. They're not receiving any notifications whatsoever by mail because they don't have internet, they don't do the phone thing.
So I think my question now is, does the VA respond by paper mail once an applicant's information is input into the system? That's a yes or no question.
Tim Sirhal
No, they do not. Okay. We're going to have to, we're going to have to figure that one out. That's a big deal. All right, not so much for folks live around the city and can do all the live in the metaverse, but for the country folks that I represent, they need that.
All right, we're going to have to figure something out. Fair enough?
Yes, sir.
Tim Sirhal
All right. What are the most common financial mistakes or missed opportunities the survivors kind of what that that happen to them? Is there a is the VA tracking like if they submit an application and it's processed and they're going to resubmit it's like hey you missed something. I think that's a breakdown of communication. Is there a do we have a oh if you want to take a survey or kind of is there a language model that we're utilizing inside the VA that populates something for the spouses to say hey make sure you're taking a look at this because we we've noticed that most of the spouses may miss this opportunity.
Jennifer Bover
So we do not have something like exactly what you're talking about, but what I can tell you is that we have made a lot of changes over the last year. So for example, we have started sending pre-need info pre-planning information to veterans while they're still alive so they can have these conversations with their spouses on what benefits they may be eligible for. When we hear that a veteran has passed away, we're immediately to your point sending a letter to let them know what benefits they may be eligible for. And I think something that's super important that we have done is that if in certain circumstances, and I'll give you an example, if a veteran is 100% service-connected for more than 10 years and they pass away and they have a spouse on record, VA is automatically providing them their survivor benefits without them having to apply within six days. And we've done about 100,000 of those just so far this fiscal year.
Within six days.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Tim Sirhal
If I pass away, my spouse will receive benefits. There's a six-day gap or?
Jennifer Bover
So from the again, there are certain situations. So if we know that for example, in if you are 100% service-connected for more than 10 years and you pass away because we don't have to look into whether the cause of death was related to service and there was a spouse on the award, yes, sir, we are automatically paying those benefits from the time we find out about the death to that spouse on record within six days.
In fact, about 40,000 of those this year have been within one day and the spouse does not have to apply for those benefits, sir.
Tim Sirhal
So the survivors pension application is roughly 20 pages long, correct?
Tim Sirhal
In that application, does it describe every single pension benefit possible for the spouses or is it something they got to go hunt for?
So the...
I may not be asking that right, but go ahead.
Jennifer Bover
Yes, sir, that exact form, the 21-534EZ, is a claim for three benefits, which is the accrued benefit, pension, as well as dependency and indemnity compensation.
Three benefits?
Yes, it's three benefits.
There's also burial benefits, and there is a... it's a little nuanced. There is a separate form for burial benefits. However, if we do grant service-connected death, we can also automatically pay burial benefits.
Can or do?
Jennifer Bover
We do if we grant service-connected death, we can automatically pay those benefits based on the form they submitted, sir.
Jennifer Bover
So that... that is our... our way of having all three benefits on one form. Sometimes for burial benefits, it is not necessarily the surviving spouse who may have incurred that... that cost, or it may not be service-connected. But again, when it is, we are paying those benefits based on that one application.
Tim Sirhal
So there's five total, if I understand, burial and the other one you mentioned.
So there's accrued... the 534EZ has accrued, dependency and indemnity compensation, and pension. So three, and then again, if we do grant service-connected DIC, we will automatically pay that burial.
Tim Sirhal
How would a surviving spouse that lives in... that lives in Coldspring, Texas, know all that's available? If you don't know where Coldspring, Texas is, I mean, we... we're really excited about that, they just got power out there, we don't always use water, you know, that kind of thing. It's a very remote place. And I'm... if you're listening, Coldspring, I love you to death, I'm here for you. But the surviving... those spouses out there, they're not... how do they... how do they know all that information?
Because they're not going to get online to get it.
Jennifer Bover
Yes, sir. So in those cases where we're not able to process automatically, we are sending them a letter. So they will... those folks will receive a letter in the mail.
Tim Sirhal
Okay. You got anything else? Mr. Self? Okay. Ms. Wolver, Mr. Sirhals, thank you very much for your time today.
Mr. Sirhals, I look forward to hearing from you, the ranking member and I, okay? Thank you.
Are we ready? Ms. Sipes, you ready? I'm ready too. It'll be, it's going to be a great day. It's going to be a great day.
And we appreciate you guys coming to chat with us. I would like to introduce Ms. Tamara Sipes, National President, Gold Star Spouses of America, and Mr. Joseph Barnett, Vice President of the Office of Servicemembers' Group Life Insurance, Prudential Financial. I'm sure you got a kick out of what I was just, we'll talk about that. I ask that the witnesses please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Ms. Sipes, you are now recognized for five minutes to present the testimony on behalf of Gold Star Spouses of America.
Tamara Sipes
Thank you. Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of Gold Star Spouses of America. Like so many others I represent, many here today, my life and my family's life was changed forever by my husband's service and sacrifice. My name is Tamara Sipes, and I serve as National President, and I'm also a surviving spouse. For us, VA programs are not abstract benefits.
They are the foundation of our financial stability, our access to care, and our ability to move forward. Surviving spouses navigate grief, financial transition, and complex administrative systems all at the same time without clear guidance, timely communication, or processes that reflect the realities of their lives. These are not minor inconveniences. They have real consequences. While there have been improvements, further efforts are needed across the Pension Fiduciary and VA Life programs.
Many surviving spouses are confused about how the survivors' pension works, especially alongside Dependency and Indemnity Compensation, DIC. Survivors turn to the pension program only to find that the income threshold, approximately $11,700 annually, is set well below the poverty level. The term pension can be confusing for survivors as it's understood as a collective benefit as opposed to just one component of possible survivor benefits. As a result, many survivors spend time and emotional energy applying only to be denied. The issue is not just eligibility, it is clarity.
Survivors need plain language explanations up front so they can understand whether they qualify before entering the process. And we urge Congress to examine the current threshold for survivor pension eligibility to better align at least up to the federal poverty level.
We have also heard from survivors who were not informed about the one-year window to move death gratuity and SGLI benefits into tax-advantaged accounts. By the time they make these decisions, the opportunity has often passed. Survivors should be proactively informed, are given structured options before funds are distributed, rather than be expected to navigate these decisions during the first year of profound loss. One of the most immediate and personal issues for many of our members is the fiduciary program. We have heard consistent concerns about burdensome and confusing requirements, specifically involving biological children.
In some instances, surviving spouses who were previously recognized as competent beneficiaries for their children are required to establish fiduciary arrangements solely due to remarriage. This can feel misaligned reality and adds unnecessary stress. While oversight is important, current policies create unnecessary burdens on surviving spouses. In addition, we would like to recognize and commend the VA for voluntarily moving the Office of Survivors Assistance back under the Office of the Secretary in May of 2025. Although this administration action alone is not a durable safeguard.
Without a statutory requirement, OSA can be moved again, leaving survivors without consistent access, authority, and visibility at the department's highest level. We respectfully ask for action on HR 1228, clarifying the law is necessary to ensure this does not happen again. In closing, unclear communication and eligibility requirements can result in delayed benefits, financial instability, and unnecessary hardship during an already difficult chapter in life. We can better honor our surviving spouses with not only our gratitude, but our commitment to ensuring the systems designed to support them are clearly communicated, equitable, and responsive. Gold Star Spouses of America stands ready to work with this subcommittee and the VA to advance solutions.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions.
Tim Sirhal
The written statement of Ms. Sykes will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. Barnett, you're now recognized for five minutes, sir.
Joseph Barnett
Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee. My name is Joe Barnett and I am Vice President of the Office of Servicemember Group Life Insurance. On behalf of Prudential, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Prudential is proud to serve as the administrator of the Servicemember Group Life Insurance program, also known as SGLI. We recognize the trust the VA has placed in us to support servicemembers, veterans, and their families during moments of profound loss, injury, and transition, and we take that responsibility very seriously.
Today, the program provides approximately 1.25 trillion dollars in life insurance coverage to more than 5.1 million servicemembers, their dependents, and veterans. Since inception, the program has paid more than 35.2 billion in benefits, including life insurance benefits and traumatic injury payments under Traumatic Servicemember Group Life Insurance. Prudential was founded more than 150 years ago with a simple purpose: to help working families find peace of mind at a time when few financial protections existed.
As our CEO Andy Sullivan, a veteran himself often notes, Prudential started with something as basic and human as burial insurance. While our business has evolved over generations, our focus remains the same, being there for people when it matters most. That commitment is reflected in Prudential's role in partnership with the Department of Veterans Affairs administering life insurance programs for the military community. Beginning with service member group life insurance. The SGLI program was established by Congress to ensure that service members have access to affordable guaranteed issue life insurance.
Under the statutory framework, Congress sets the requirements, the VA provides oversight and issues implementing regulations, and Prudential administers the program through OSGLI in strict accordance with those requirements. Coverage under the program is automatic for service members and includes continuation of coverage following separation, extensions for totally disabled service members, and protection for qualifying traumatic injuries. Through OSGLI, Prudential administers claims with care, processing claims initiated through military service in accordance with VA policy and communicating directly with beneficiaries as appropriate. In addition to SGLI, OSGLI disperses timely payments of traumatic service member group life insurance or TSGLI benefits, which provides tax-free lump sum financial support to service members who suffer qualifying traumatic injuries, and VGLI, which allows veterans to continue their life insurance coverage following separation from service. OSGLI plays a central role in outreach during transition, helping ensure awareness of continuation of coverage under VGLI after military service, including the opportunity to apply for coverage without the need to qualify medically and the potential for disability extension coverage.
In closing, Prudential's role in regards to these programs is not simply an operational responsibility, it is a solemn trust. We deeply value our close partnership with the Department of Veterans Affairs in fulfilling these promises to those who serve and the families who stand behind them. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I look forward to answering any questions that the committee may have.
Speaker 38
The written statement of Mr. Burnett will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. McGarvey, sir, you're recognized.
Morgan McGarvey
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Sipes, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your sacrifice. Thank you for turning that pain into purpose and for helping so many people across the country.
I'll start with you. And you raised concerns in your testimony about the fiduciary program and how it treats minor children, especially those receiving dependency and indemnity care or DIC as we call it, and who are living with a parent who just happened to remarry and find love again. Can you elaborate a little bit on that, please?
Tamara Sipes
Well, if you're a parent, if you're a surviving spouse and you have minor children, you receive dependency indemnity compensation for your children, for yourself. There's no site visits, there's no quarterly reports that I have to give as a parent. There's no, I am their biological parent. So when I, if I were to remarry or that surviving spouse remarries, all of a sudden it turns into where you're not the parent anymore, now you're a fiduciary. You have to go through site visits, you have to go through quarterly reporting, you have to account for, you know, if all of those funds come in, where they go.
And so as a biological parent, you are treated differently.
Morgan McGarvey
Which makes no sense. Correct. Thank you. You know, it makes absolutely zero sense to me whatsoever. And I think it highlights another aspect of how completely unreasonable and out of touch the remarriage penalty is for survivors and why passing the Love Lives On Act is so important for us to get done this Congress.
Don't, don't clap for me. The biggest champion of this in Washington is sitting right here at the head of the dais in the Chairman Morgan Luttrell. And I say all that, none of those were applause lines. I mean, we really, he does this, we do this because it's the right thing to do by our veterans and their families. And again, Ms. Ipes, I really appreciate your willingness to speak up.
I know it's not easy. And the fact you're doing it is going to help a lot of people in this country out. I also want to ask you a little bit about the income limits for the VA pension programs. In your opinion, are those limits high enough?
Tamara Sipes
The pension program is, is set up, I mean, 11,700, you have to be destitute. I mean, they're, they don't qualify for anything else. They're not even at a federal poverty level. And it's just an offset. So, so if you're making 10,000, they're going to send you a 1,700 dollar check for the year to get to that 11,700.
I mean, how can you even live off of that?
Morgan McGarvey
You can't. Right? The federal poverty level is just above 15,000 dollars. This is just above 11,000 dollars. And of course, you are dealing with all the other complexities that go with losing a spouse and all of the other paperwork and forms and potential needing to get yourself back on your feet or whether you have a job or don't have a job or can keep a job and just everything.
And then you're filling out these paper, you're filling out this paperwork to either one, go all the way through it and then find out you don't get it. Or two, find out you get it and it's, I mean, I guess it is better than nothing, but it's still a little bit of a slap in the face that it's so low. So, Mr. Barnett, in my remaining time, I'm going to switch to you. As I understand it, premiums in the insurance program increase with five-year age increments. They increase with age in five-year increments, I should say.
Logically, that makes sense. Older someone gets, the more it costs to insure them. But I worry that these rate increases hit just as policyholders are moving into their later years and often onto a fixed income. And that makes the insurance harder to afford at the moment they need it most. So do you or VA track how many people drop their insurance coverage and if you do, do you get reasons for why they do it?
Joseph Barnett
Thank you for that question, Ranking Member. Yeah, I would be able to, I don't have that information with me right now. I would be able to go back and, and bring that to the committee.
Morgan McGarvey
Yeah, and I think, you know, having both the number, having the number is helpful just in and of itself. To the extent you have the reasons, also instructive for us. Again, the goal of this committee is to do right by our veterans and find out what's happening to them, what's impacting their lives, what we can do to make that better and easier for their service.
What kind of flexibility are you able to offer when a policyholder is having trouble making payments?
Joseph Barnett
Thank you for that question. With respect to, um, to policyholders who are struggling with payments, what we, what we would do is, you know, counsel the individual. They have the opportunity to lower their coverage, obviously to save cost. I know that's not necessarily the best solution, but as individuals age, they may not have a need for a higher level of insurance coverage. Other than that, what we do is we operate the program under the terms, you know, as dictated in Title 38 and statute and the regulations approved by the VA.
Morgan McGarvey
And I'll just ask you one more question, Mr. Chairman, if I can. One of the selling points of VA's insurance programs is that they offer better rates and better premiums than most private sector insurance. But that's not true in every circumstance, is it?
Joseph Barnett
So generally speaking, with respect to what's open in the available market versus what the VGLI program represents, the, again, with guaranteed issue coverage at time of separation for a service member, provided you apply within a 240-day window, there is no need to provide evidence of good health. So what we have under the VGLI program is a mix of individuals who are healthy and a mix of individuals who may not be and would not be able to receive, you know, private insurance in the open market. So it really is going to depend on the underlying insured whether or not they'd be able to obtain those rates in the market.
Morgan McGarvey
Normally I don't accept "it depends" as an answer, but in this particular instance, I know that it's a little bit complicated with how it does. I think what I want you to take away from my question and hopefully what you've heard throughout today's testimony, we want to do everything we can to help our veterans. We want to do everything we can to, I think it's, we make our veterans two promises. We make them a promise we're going to be there for them, but that promise is a legal promise and in my opinion, that promise is a moral promise. And I think we have to honor both of those.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Tim Sirhal
Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. Mr. Barnett, how much does Prudential collect off the veteran community as opposed to they pay out each year?
Thank you, Chairman, for that question.
Tim Sirhal
Because you said that you're going to drop rates on someone who can't make the payments. I'm curious as to how much money you guys make as opposed to how much you pay out. Would you actually have to take that money from the veterans if they're in need?
Joseph Barnett
Yeah, first thing, if I could just refer back to the last question, premium rates are set by the Department of Veterans Affairs. Prudential simply serves as administrator of those. So with respect to VGLI, we would be providing the billing, the record-keeping and billing for those, but we're not responsible and do not influence what those rates are. With respect to, I'm sorry, can you repeat your question?
How much do you guys collect?
1.2, 1.4 billion in premium.
1.2 to 1.4 billion.
Joseph Barnett
Yes, and for the way in which the program works under statute is it needs to be self-sustaining, right? That means the premiums need to be able to support the administrative expenses and the claims being paid under the program. It's defined by statute, the regulation.
Speaker 44
All right, administrative expenses aside. Okay. How much do you pay out to the spouses?
To beneficiaries?
Yeah, approximately 1.25 billion.
Tim Sirhal
And what do you pay your admin? Admin expenses aside, because if I'm understanding how you just said that, you take in 1.2 billion and you pay out 1.2 billion. Aside of admin costs, how much go to the beneficiaries? Do you pay your admin staff 1 billion dollars and you pay the spouses 2 million? I'm just throwing that at you, I know that's not the case.
Claims being paid is 1.2 billion.
Joseph Barnett
Yes. And if I could, premiums come in, claims get paid out, administrative expenses get paid out. In the instance that there is a net gain in that situation, that money is retained by the program, held under a reserve under the group policy to protect against adverse mortality in the future. So that means if there was a situation where all of a sudden death claims skyrocketed.
Speaker 49
Yeah. Okay, still trying to do the math on 1.2 is taken in, 1.2 is given to the beneficiaries, and I'm trying to figure out where the admin money is.
Joseph Barnett
Oh, so Prudential, yeah, so one other thing, right, so Prudential in taking in this premium and holding this money in reserves, we do invest those funds within Prudential. We are subject to regulatory oversight by the New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance. Again, under strict insurance regulations with the VA approving how returns are reflected through the crediting rate. So at the beginning of every policy year, Prudential declares a crediting rate for the reserves held under the group policy, and then that is applied to the reserves that are being held.
Tim Sirhal
Seems like I need to take a deeper dive on this. Does Prudential, I'm assuming you guys are aware of each beneficiary in the program, correct? Their names on your books and how much is going out, correct?
Yeah.
Tim Sirhal
All right. Here's my question. The VA is a very large machine. All right, and please don't take away what happened earlier today, it's normally not the case, but when they warrant a wire brushing, they will absolutely get it from the ranking member and I, okay? But as large as this machine is, and Ms. Sipes even hit on this, communication to each beneficiary is very challenging.
Does Prudential engage in communications or is all communications to the beneficiaries done by, with, and through the VA only?
No, this would be through Prudential.
It will be?
It is through Prudential.
Correct.
Then you're the problem.
With respect to?
Tim Sirhal
Well, the lovely young lady sitting next to you says that the beneficiaries receiving information is not adequate. And if it's not adequate, it's got to be coming from you guys, which you just said it was. So now my conversation is directed at you, not the VA.
Joseph Barnett
I did not hear that specific to the life insurance programs. Did I miss something?
Or was it?
Tamara Sipes
Specific to the, my apologies, to the insurance programs in regards to options available for investments within the one year after their loss.
Joseph Barnett
Yes. So what Prudential does is, right, we will provide a beneficiary election form to individuals. They're able to elect whether they receive that payment via EFT or check.
We do offer beneficiary financial counseling services to those individuals under the terms of the program. And again, this is all under the oversight of the VA. It's a non-solicitous program that allows for 20 hours of financial counseling for individuals. We do send those under the oversight of the VA. I'm not aware, this is the first time I'm hearing of that being an issue.
And with respect to being able to place those funds into a Roth or some kind of, yes. We are unable as Prudential to provide financial advice or solicit any type of products under the SGLI program.
Tim Sirhal
I'll come back to you, Mr. Barnett. Thank you. Ms. Sykes, this is a request. The amount of information that you and the other young ladies and gentlemen in the room have because, again, you're on the receiving end of all this. And as hard as the VA works, and they do, and I will say that all day long, they do.
And the amount of information that they can kind of take in and process is coming from every direction, a thousand different directions from a thousand different issues, okay? How do we, to help the VA navigate these challenging waters, how do we get out in front of it, so to speak? How do we take all the information that you all have that is challenging for you all and put that in a place that the VA can either, it may exist already and they just need a little streamlining, or is there a way that we can provide that information to remove the problem entirely? Because by the time it shows up here, it's a problem. Do you have the ability to communicate with the VA openly and are they listening?
Tamara Sipes
They are listening. They are, I do believe that they are trying and they are trying to find some solutions. However, I can tell you that if you asked everyone in this room even on if they receive a letter of benefits or not, you're going to have a different response.
Say that one more time.
Tamara Sipes
That you're going to have a different response on surviving spouses on whether or not they receive annual benefits letters, on what's on that letter, on the communication that they receive from the VA. And having clear communication has been our most challenging, it really has been. The one year timeframe for folks to be able to invest funds, the SGLI, the death gratuity, there are spouses that have not been able to do that within that one year timeframe, didn't even know it was available.
Tim Sirhal
So how do we help the spouses that don't know that? Don't throw it back at the VA. Right. They're they're on their they're going that I got it. How else can we fix that problem?
How else can we communicate to our our service members and the spouses to to kind of hey front load this issue. I'm going to be dead one day. I know that.
Tamara Sipes
Well, we've moved the office recently of the survivors assistance back to under the secretary.
Speaker 46
What is the best way to get that information to folks that don't get on the worldwide web?
Tamara Sipes
They they need to mail it. They need to they need to do a multi communication. They need to do a digital and a mail. They need to get the information because there's not a lot of us.
Tim Sirhal
We're transitioning into a generation that knows nothing but digital. And it's our older veterans that are absent of that. And I've had conversations with many folks good, bad, or indifferent. How long do you wait to make the full transition or do you go put it in place and do whatever you can to make sure that our World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War veterans are taken care of. That's a very hard question to ask because where we currently sit with the advancements in machine learning and artificial intelligence, everybody in this room's got a phone in your pocket.
That's where we're going. We're there. We're not going. We are there. And we are on the VA on a daily basis to say you need to upgrade and advance your AI systems to take care of our veterans and you leave a small segment of those of those veterans behind because they don't they do not touch the digital space.
So back to the question that I asked you is like how do we continue to do that? Now the VA will mail out as best they can and touch those folks.
Tamara Sipes
Rather than an rather than automatic can they not have an opt in? Can they not can they not work alongside the rest of the world how they choose to opt in to something electronic?
Tim Sirhal
We're talking about we're talking about a generation that is already we can do that with service members that are entering into the VA space now but what about the ones that are we got to you know then we'd have to find them.
Morgan McGarvey
Mr. Chairman, I as usual I appreciate your work and your advocacy in all these areas. Ms. Sipes, I couldn't help but when thinking about some of the things you're talking about right now and these issues as you said Mr. Chairman for the people not just you but all the people behind you and all the people who aren't in this room who I know are working on this, you guys have a lot of really valuable insight and input to share. There is a Veterans Family Caregivers and Survivors Advisory Committee within the VA. I just looked it up really quickly from what I can tell online it has not met since June of 2024. Is that correct?
Right. Well, there's that. Yes.
You got anything? And that's the challenging part.
Well, I am not aware of it.
Speaker 50
We do not. I am sure that our the office could tell us who that was but.
Morgan McGarvey
Okay. I think that's a we have that there for a reason. I think that's something we should also look into Mr. Chairman.
I yield back.
Morgan McGarvey
Thank you. In closing, after being here and hearing some of the things we've heard today, I'm actually, aside from the promise we've made to our veterans to honor their service, to honor their sacrifice, to be there for them after they have served us to keep us safe and free, I'm reminded actually of a quote I sometimes use from an old John Prine song: "It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more." I think we could use a lot of common sense on some of these issues, Mr. Chairman. When you have Gold Star spouses, they don't, they need to be treated as heroes and as parents, not as guardians and fiduciaries. When we have Gold Star spouses, they should be allowed to remarry without penalty of losing their benefits.
When we have reports that are due to Congress by January of 2026, and apparently they are completed and reviewed and cleared, we should know where they are and be able to see them and feel like we have a partnership, not a black hole in certain areas. The common sense thing to do is again to take care of our veterans. And I think that is something that you'll see us continue to do, and Mr. Chairman, something I appreciate your approach to these matters on and look forward to working with you with.
Tim Sirhal
Absolutely. Thank you, sir. The VA staff is still with us, and your job is never supposed to be easy. I'm saying that as a veteran. You get up every single morning and you show up to work and it's a grind.
You're never going to have the right answer, you're always going to make somebody upset, but you keep showing up and you keep grinding. For that, you have my utmost respect. Thank you so much. In this wonderful place that we live in, there has to be oversight, there has to be the hard questions. You have to field those questions because you touch the veterans directly.
We hear from our veterans, you are the touchpoint. It will never be easy. If it's easy, you're in the wrong department. But it's necessary. And the ranking member and I have made an agreement when we got in this thing together that we would be unified on our efforts to hold the VA accountable for everything that our veterans are asking for.
And we will not stop because they deserve it. To our Gold Star families that are in the room with us today, we pray for you every single day. I don't have the right answers, I don't have the perfect thing to say, and I never will. The weight that you carry every day and the things that you ask for are very warranted, and no one will ever know that more so than you. Period.
And Mr. McGarvey and I and the rest of the members in this subcommittee and on the main committee will do everything in our power to get you what you ask for because we know you deserve it. We do. And that communication goes from us, it goes to the VA, it goes to the secretaries, it goes to the President, it goes to the Vice President, it goes to everyone because there's no more chairs to ask set in the United States of America than the veterans, service members, and their families. Period. We wouldn't be sitting here today if it wasn't for you.
And I'm no longer in the game of fistfighting, but I'd argue that with anybody all day long. So this oversight hearing pulled out a lot of information that we're going to be paying attention to. So Ms. Sipes, God bless you. Mr. Barnett, I'm not going to ask you if you're the greatest insurance provider on the planet because you've been doing this for over 60 years for our veterans, so obviously you're doing something right. Okay?
Mr. McGarvey, that's all I've got. So with that, this hearing is adjourned. All right. I ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous material without objection so ordered.