Joint Social Security and Work & Welfare Subcommittee Hearing with the Commissioner of Social Security, Frank J. Bisignano
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House Ways and Means Subcommittee on Social Security U.S. House of Representatives
John Larson
Add to that the fact that people are still being taxed on their Social Security benefits in spite, in spite of the claim of the other side that they've taken care of that. Yet, maybe 6 million out of the 28 got some relief, but there that by my math means that 22 million Americans who shouldn't be taxed on their Social Security still get taxed on their Social Security. Also, as we all know, that while the repeal of WEP and GPO was important and imperative, funding it is important as well. I'd like to submit for the record as well the report that was issued yesterday, the, and today, the Social Security financial outlook deteriorated due to Trump policies, including both the big beautiful bill, so to speak, as well as the tariff issues. And most recently, as reported yet by another whistleblower, what's happening in terms of trying to deport people who are paying into Social Security.
John Larson
All in all, Mr. Chairman, my concern remains the same as it has for the last decade. And that's that we directly as a committee enhance the benefits of people of this country that they richly deserve for the nation's number one anti-poverty program for the elderly, the number one anti-poverty program for children, and the number one program that more veterans rely on for disability than any other agency. I think everybody on this, on this dais and in this committee understands the urgency. I will submit for the record later every single district and how it's reflected in the impact on the individuals that were sworn to serve. The hard truth is, it's great that there might be some efficiencies, but that doesn't translate into people who are barely surviving get under poverty level checks.
40% subsist on just Social Security alone, and for more than half of Americans, this is the only thing they have. That's not progress. That's criminal. And Congress needs to act. We have a bill.
We're prepared to do that. We're prepared to restore solvency and extend benefits.
Ron Estes
Thank you, Ranking Member Larson. I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Work and Welfare Subcommittee Chairman Darin LaHood, for his opening statement.
Darin LaHood
Thank you, Chairman Estes, and happy to be part of this joint subcommittee hearing today between Work and Welfare and the Social Security Subcommittee.
And I want to thank you, Commissioner Bisignano, for being here again today and your work as Commissioner of the Social Security Administration. We appreciate you being back here with us, and I want to thank you for your continued work leading the Social Security Administration. As we know, SSA serves a huge number of Americans, and the work your agency does touches seniors, individuals with disabilities, families, and workers across the country. Commissioner, you joined us about one year ago after having been newly confirmed in your role, and I reviewed some of the data your team shared with us before this hearing about customer service at the agency. I was impressed at the progress you have been able to make in web, phone, and field office operations and to see that you've made a priority of meeting Americans where they are.
And obviously, your background and experience in the private sector has been immensely beneficial to that endeavor that you've taken on. And I appreciate your commitment to making the agency work better for the people who depend on it. SSA is one of the federal agencies that Americans interact with most directly. So when service is delayed, people feel it immediately. And I look forward to hearing more about the progress you've made and how Congress can be helpful in the future with your continued work.
As Chairman of the Work and Welfare Subcommittee, I'm also interested in the administration of the Supplemental Security Income, also known as SSI program. For some recipients of SSI, their disability or age may mean they are unable to work, but for others, work may be possible with the right support, the right information, and a system that does not make the rules harder than they need to be. Last time you were here, we spoke about the importance of removing barriers for people who can work and want to work. SSA has work supports and programs designed to facilitate the transition to work. For instance, like the Ticket to Work program, and I look forward to hearing how SSA is looking at that program in particular and what progress has been made.
The committee also has been focused on improving the foster care system. With the leadership of First Lady Melania Trump, the House recently passed the Fostering the Future Act, a bipartisan piece of legislation to modernize the Chafee foster care program and improve outcomes for foster youth. When you were here last year, you spoke about the issue of children in foster care who receive Social Security survivor or SSI benefits and the importance of SSA working to increase the number of states that have data exchanges in place to ensure children in foster care get the help they need. And I appreciate SSA's attention to this issue and look forward to hearing any updates on where things stand with that. Commissioner, again, thank you for your service.
Thank you for being here today. We look forward to a fruitful conversation and dialogue in today's hearing and your willingness to be before the committee. Thank you, and I yield back.
Ron Estes
Thank you, Chairman LaHood. I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Work and Welfare Subcommittee Ranking Member Davis, for his opening statement.
Danny Davis
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over 75 million Americans depend on monthly Social Security Administration payments. SSA's work is vital to all Americans. Those receiving benefits, those earning security for the future, and those whose loved ones live with dignity because of Social Security or Supplemental Security Income. Those benefits are even more critical and more crucial now with inflation at its highest level since we recovered from the pandemic.
So I appreciate the Commissioner joining us today. Commissioner, I hope today can be the start of telling Congress and the public the whole truth, starting with being fully transparent about the challenges SSA face in the wake of massive staff cuts and exodus of experienced staff and repeated credible reports that the Trump administration misused the public trust. Most recently, a whistleblower revealed an SSA plan to declare US citizens, and I quote, "dead", unquote, for political gain. SSA statements about customer service do not always appear to reflect the reality Americans experience. Press releases claiming dramatic improvements in SSA customer service, particularly on the 800 number, conflict with reports from AARP and our constituents.
People across the country report waiting in long lines at Social Security offices or being turned away and told to make appointments only to discover no appointments are available. Similarly, it seems misleading to claim a zero call wait time for seniors that waited hours or days for a callback, or to praise short call wait times for people whose problems are not resolved. I hear repeatedly that people must call back over and over to finally speak to someone who can answer their questions because the 800 number forwards them to staff outside of their understaffed local offices, staff who cannot answer individual case questions. So I ask you, Mr. Commissioner, to provide accurate and clear information so we can work together to make sure that you have qualified staff you need to deliver benefits. As ranking member on the Subcommittee on Work and Family Support, I have a special responsibility to speak up for SSI recipients, many of whom live with severe mental and physical disabilities.
Beneficiaries are justifiably frightened that the administration's proposal to cut benefits for over 400,000 of the poorest recipients, that proposal should be formally rescinded, not left lingering to frighten vulnerable people. I also hope you will provide clear timelines for revising the adult and child medical listing of impairments for sickle cell disease based on the National Academy of Sciences final report. When we talked last year, you said you were waiting for the report. It was published months ago, and it confirms that the current SSA process is excluding some families from the help they need.
For example, SSA data indicate that three-quarters of all children with severe sickle cell disease get initially denied SSI disability upon application under these criteria. These families need help now. So Commissioner, I thank you for joining us today. You have a lot of important work to do and we want to help you get it right. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit to the record a letter from several sickle cell and disability advocates to meet with the Commissioner to discuss revising the disability decisions for those suffering from sickle cell anemia.
I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Without objection, so ordered.
Thank you, I yield back.
Ron Estes
Thank you, Mr. Davis. Today's sole witness is Commissioner of Social Security, Commissioner Frank Bisignano. Thank you for joining us today. Your written statement will be made part of the hearing record and you have five minutes to deliver your oral remarks. Commissioner Bisignano, you may begin whenever you're ready.
Frank Bisignano
Thank you, members of the subcommittees. Under President Trump, the Social Security Administration is delivering faster service, better customer experiences, and higher quality outcomes for the American people. Every customer-facing service channel, field office, phones, and web, has improved by double digits. This is the best all-around performance ever at the Social Security Administration. We have pledged and are protecting and preserving Social Security.
SSA serves over 300 million people, and this year we will have over 800 million interactions. As a result of our record-breaking performance, we are saving the American people over 40 million hours. The American people are winning. Before I arrived in May 2025, SSA had four different leaders in five months and was an agency in turmoil. The American people endured a failed service model, the Biden administration's so-called appointment-focused service turned people away who traveled to our field offices.
On the national 800 number, only half of our customers got their calls answered. On the web, self-service features were down 29 hours a week. Turning people away who traveled to field offices, only answering half the calls, and having office hours on the web is not meeting our customers where they want to be met. The Trump administration is transforming SSA into a model of excellence, a digital-first agency that meets and exceeds customer expectations for timely, accurate service in the channel of their choice. More than 99% of our field offices are open and serving the public, with average wait times reduced to 20 minutes, a 30% improvement.
No field office is closed due to staffing. We now answer 90% of calls to our 800 number and have reduced average wait time to 5 minutes, a 75% improvement. Simultaneously, fiscal year-to-date, we are serving 56% more people, which represents 13 million additional customers served. Online services are now available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, enabling customers to complete transactions instantaneously. We are up 37% on our web transactions and up 21% on account creations.
We are the largest digital financial services platform with over 103 million My Social Security accounts. In serving our most vulnerable, we have reduced wait times for initial disability claims decisions by 34 days, reduced hearing wait times by 91 days, reaching historic lows and are quickly delivering disability benefits to those who qualify. Technology, process engineering, and disciplined execution have driven this transformation. Some of our recent improvements include online claims straight-through processing and advanced technology. These improvements have generated the equivalent of 2,500 work years in productivity savings across the agency.
With better process engineering and management, we have reduced workload in field offices by the equivalent of 600 work years, allowing staff to spend more time serving customers directly. We have also prioritized workforce engagement. For the first time in agency history, I have established advisory councils that report directly to me. These efforts are producing results. Annualized fiscal year 2026 attrition will be 30% lower than fiscal year 2024, providing consistency for both staff and the public we serve.
Finally, we have made risk management a core operating principle at SSA. We have closed IG audit recommendations at a record pace, helping protect 16 billion in taxpayer funds. We are meeting congressional program integrity requirements, strengthening controls, and relentlessly pursuing the elimination of fraud, waste, and abuse. We have also restored stability. During the past year, there has been no turnover among my direct reports, whether career or political.
That leadership continuity, combined with the dedication of SSA's workforce, enabled the agency to serve the American people through the 43-day government shutdown during the peak of retirement season. I am honored to lead this agency and serve the American people. We are building a modern, sustainable, durable organization. The President's fiscal year 2027 budget request supports this transformation. Mr. Chairman, over the past year, we have improved service, strengthened controls, deployed technology, and delivered measurable results at historic scale.
I look forward to discussing these accomplishments and answering your questions.
Ron Estes
Thank you for your testimony. We'll now proceed to the question and answer session. Commissioner Bisignano, the operational turnaround we have witnessed over the past year is a testament to what happens when private sector efficiency is brought into a federal bureaucracy. By focusing on core data and cutting through administrative red tape, the SSA is finally starting to deliver the level of service that Kansans and all Americans expect and deserve. To better understand how you achieved these milestones and how we can assure these gains are sustained securely, I have a few specific questions regarding some of your strategy, staffing, program integrity, and some recent data reports.
Commissioner, you've managed to achieve significant improvements to customer service in the first year, including an 84% reduction in the national 800-number average wait times and a 33% drop in the initial disability backlog while all while operating with fewer total employees. Can you describe how ideas like shifting personnel out of the bureaucratic headquarters positions and onto the front lines made this possible and what further structural changes are planned?
Frank Bisignano
Thank you. Thank you very much. I think first of all, I'm honored to be here.
I when we look at what we inherited, we inherited something that existed for a long time. You know, one of the first observations I had is way too many layers of management. We didn't shut down anything actually that was facing clients, right? Regional offices was another level of bureaucracy. We didn't close down a field office.
We actually reallocated our staff to where the work was. And I think that's a basic tactic. I think also we looked at what we needed when we needed. First day I looked at the numbers on the 800 number at 8:00 AM with 4,000 people on our staff, we had 400 and the phone was ringing. Obviously, people wanted to call us in the morning and we weren't there.
So I like to make this more complicated, but it's not. It's putting people where the work is, it's building technology in a modern day fashion, it's understanding what best in class performance looks like and motivating a workforce who's fully motivated to be here. We have great people in SSA who love to serve the American public.
Ron Estes
Well thank you. Has that reallocation of personnel affected service elsewhere in the agency?
Frank Bisignano
I think when we look at the numbers, first of all, you know as you know, you said it before, you know you have fundamentally three quarters of a million Social Security numbers in your in your jurisdiction and we pay out, you know, more than 300 million a month. So this is a very important engine to every one of the districts. And we're very, very proud of the full balanced scorecard. Visitors are down in field offices and up everywhere else, although that's fundamentally half our staffing and we committed to never close a field office and always be there. I think, you know, every number in the place is double digit improvement.
And that says the head of disability, we never actually had a head of disability before, and it's a career person who was a judge, runs disability and says it's bread and butter management to him what they're learning and they're growing. So we we we look at a balanced scorecard, we have a governance structure that looks at the numbers every week as a management team and we're committed to having a better year in front of us than the year behind us.
Ron Estes
Great. Can we talk a little bit more about disability, appreciate what you just said, but you know as the pending disability claims and and the initial claims and and reconsiderations continue to shrink, how are you ensuring that the bottlenecks do not materialize at other parts in the in the adjudication process?
Frank Bisignano
Well that's why we I mean when when we look at every week for an hour and a half as a management team, and that would be, you know, my direct reports and their direct reports, 200 indicators and go through them. You know, we want to make sure we're making hearings more efficient, we're making, by the way, efficient equals quality too. Better output, less errors, quicker responses to clients. And so I think the only way of doing it is look at a balanced scorecard, make sure we have the right resource allocation and a technology roadmap to change it. We're not modernizing, we're transforming.
Ron Estes
While while the operational turnarounds are incredible, our constituents are still occasionally surprised by overpayment notices, often due to no fault of their own. After 10 years of intense oversight by the committee, the SSA is finally begin using the authority to implement a payroll information exchange designed to improve payment accuracy and relieve the burdens and reliance on self-reported wage information, a leading cause of the improper payments.
Can you provide us with an update on the status of the information exchange?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I mean, it's called PIE, Payment Information Exchange, and on the first days here, I didn't know what they meant by PIE, but we learned it real quick. We've expanded it. We've have more information coming into it, and we changed the interval that in fact the information comes. So it's a daily exchange. It's a way that we get information from outside bureaus and can compare so we reduce our improper payments.
Ron Estes
Thank you. Data integrity and security are sometimes part of the most critical role of the SSA, which maintains some of the most personal information of nearly every American. Recent media reports have alleged plans to add millions of living individuals to the Death Master File, which is an important database. I say it's the, it's one of the main national databases, if not the only national database that provides that information. But the Death Master File's managed by SSA and utilized by other federal agencies to ensure taxpayer dollars are not going to otherwise deceased and ineligible individuals.
Mr. Commissioner, what's your response to these reports from the media about adding the living individuals, and is the SSA knowingly adding living individuals to the Death Master File?
Frank Bisignano
We are not, and from the day I've been here, we haven't added people to the Death Master File who are living. I will tell you, our approach to this is a first-time-ever approach. There was something called the Numident file, maybe y'all heard of the Numident. It's not a common word in anyone's neighborhood, probably. No one walks into a Social Security office and says, "Am I on the Numident file?"
I like to call it the Social Security number database. And that Social Security number database had never been reconciled. Now recognize we created two new positions: a head of risk management to report to me, which was well subordinated in the organization, and a head of cyber and resiliency, both two great career executives in the federal government. And in the creation of those roles, they absorbed all different types of way to do the business and the work. We reconciled today the Social Security number database.
We use lots of data exchanges. We are the number one identifier for Americans of who they are. So having that as pristine as possible, and that if it was never reconciled before, it's really been a heroic effort by the team, which I think ensures our data integrity and our data accuracy. And then building a cyber function of world class where we actually have outsiders and ourselves continually pounding at it to ensure it's right is about the risk management function of Social Security which did not exist before.
Ron Estes
Thank you for that update on how the process works. And you said you haven't added any living individuals. Are there any plans to do that in the future?
No, no sir.
John Larson
Well, thank you again, Mr. Chairman. Let me start by saying, do you believe the billionaires should pay their fair share of Social Security?
The pardon, the what?
Whatever the law is should be upheld.
John Larson
So if you're Elon Musk and don't pay anything into Social Security, that's okay with you.
I'm, I'm not the dictator of... So here we are before the committee and, uh, you're telling us how more efficient you are. So you're more efficient. How are the five million Americans, fellow Americans, most of them women, who are getting below poverty level checks from Social Security, are they able to starve more efficiently? Is that the goal here?
That they're able to, that we're able to send them their below poverty level check more efficiently? I guess so. So that's a great thing. We should all be doing cartwheels and celebrating. How about the 40 percent of the people who this is the only benefit that they have?
So the only benefit that they have in retirement, you're saying to them, look what we've done for you, we're getting you that check more efficiently. Isn't that wonderful? Sounds to me more like when you look at everything that's being done and nothing that's being done on behalf of the people that Social Security was meant to serve and props up our whole system of free enterprise and capitalism, we're saying don't worry, we're getting it to you more efficiently. How about we get them something they can live on and sustain themselves on? This is what this committee is, should be doing.
And I would expect from our agencies, and I know everything's Joe Biden's fault, etc., but I have to say this. Was Joe Biden wrong to say that we should lift the cap on people making over 400,000? Was that wrong, Mr., Mr. Secretary? Is that a question?
Speaker 10
Um, I would say that the fact of the matter is, uh, Congress, and that would be led by yourself as a ranking member here, has a responsibility to decide what they want to work on. The commissioner's job... That's not what the question was. The question was, do you think... I'm answering, I'm answering the way you...
You're answering the way you want to answer it. Raise your hand in the audience if you're making over 400,000. I asked the question, do you think they, we should lift the cap on making, people making over 400,000? Raise your hand on the dais if you're making over 400,000. And yet nobody here in this room is making over 400,000, and yet people are, and yet that Joe Biden, boy, that guy, what an awful thing to say that those people, as difficult as this may be, that they're going to have to pay what all of you pay for Social Security.
Wow, what an incredible burden he's just placed on people, that Joe Biden, you know, that guy who wanted to see people pay their fair share into the most significant insurance program the nation has ever had so people can live out their lives in dignity instead of living in poverty more efficiently. This hearing should be about focusing on what we need to do for the American people.
John Larson
Everyone on this dais knows that it's been over 55 years since we've enhanced Social Security across the board. And who's going to benefit from that? Where do the people in your district spend the money they receive from Social Security? On average, over $280 million in every congressional district. And oh, wouldn't it be something if that were increased?
That would actually allow not only them to live in dignity, but how about helping out every single local business in all of your districts who that money will go directly back to by way of purchasing groceries, pharmaceuticals, paying their rent, their mortgage, putting gas in their car. And instead we're sitting watching it and everybody on this dais knows and I'll keep on saying it, this is about the privatization of Social Security. It's not about helping these people out.
Ron Estes
Thank you, Ranking Member, for your your comments and questions. I now recognize Work and Welfare Subcommittee Chairman LaHood for questions.
Darin LaHood
Thank you, Chairman Estes. Commissioner, I mentioned in my opening comments that obviously this is a joint hearing and I wanted to focus my questions on the work we do on the Work and Welfare Subcommittee and specifically the Ticket to Work program. And you mentioned in your testimony that the administration of the SSI program is extremely complex to administer. And now that you have designated an SSI-led official dedicated to improving technology and processes, what specifically is that going to mean for the Ticket to Work program, particularly since we know many recipients aren't aware of the program and there are many questions about its effectiveness?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I thought when we looked at SSI in general and we looked at this vulnerable population, what we recognized very quickly was there was no accountability within the agency for delivering against it. Yes, everybody worked on it. So as I had said, we dedicated an executive in charge and he's been on a multi-pronged effort, one as you said on SSI and obviously the the payroll exchange we talk about is mission critical to SSI to ensure that we're not making payments and then coming back to people. On Ticket to Work, as we think about our beneficiaries and we don't want them burdened by reporting issues and we're committed to them, in fact, people with disabilities, promoting that they have dignity to come back to work or promoting incentives and automated self-reporting through the systems we have or encouraging employment networks to educate and we're fully engaged in that. And I think we have really the first large-scale evaluation of the program in over a decade to gather all information and come back on what's not effective still more.
Ticket to Work is a very strong program to help people to work. SSI deals with our most vulnerable and we need to have people understand that if they if they decide to go to Ticket to Work, that if they have some hardship, we'll still be there for them. And I think that's the most important element that we have to work on, Congressman.
Darin LaHood
Well, Commissioner, we I appreciate those reforms and changes that you've made appropriately and continue to implement.
Obviously, those are important to making this program successful, the Ticket to Work. As you know, we have roughly seven million unfilled jobs in the country. Last year, in our Working Families Tax Cut bill, we worked on transitioning people off of government funding into working. And the best social safety net is a job. And so we believe the Ticket to Work program, with your reforms, in making it more efficient, more effective, more accountable, can help transition people into jobs, so we look forward to working with you on that.
Customer service, you mentioned also. That matters for work. And if a beneficiary is trying to report wages or resolve an overpayment issue, delays can create real uncertainty. Chairman Estes and I held a joint Social Security and Work and Welfare Subcommittee hearing last September. The hearing was focused on removing barriers to work.
Our witnesses testified that overpayments are one of the biggest deterrents to their efforts to transition back to the workforce. What is SSA doing to reduce overpayments to SSI and DI beneficiaries who are working or attempting to return to work?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I think we've done multiple things, or I know we've done multiple things. Obviously, PIE being the largest. The payroll exchange, seeing information, understanding it. The second is, in fact, cutting payment cycles down, so in fact we have the most current information. A payment cycle is multiple days, and, you know, on any day something can change relative to it.
So getting those down to a couple days as opposed to multiple has made more. And we're, this will be a never-ending pursuit, to be honest with you, of continuing to refine the process and improve the processes.
Darin LaHood
Thank you for that. In 2024, my colleagues and I on this committee sent a bipartisan letter to the GAO, Government Accounting Office, requesting a study examining state participation in the monthly data exchanges. This is important because the data exchanges add transparency and accountability for state child welfare agencies who are acting as representative payees on behalf of children in the foster care system receiving SSI or SSA benefits. The GAO is expected to release its study this year and will have several recommendations for the Social Security Administration. And Commissioner, I just want to alert you to that.
Can you commit to working with the committee to implement the recommendations that are going to be made by the GAO or recommending legislative changes so we can make progress on this?
One hundred percent.
Thank you, Commissioner. I yield back.
Speaker 11
Thank you. I now recognize Work and Welfare Ranking Member Davis for questions.
Danny Davis
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Commissioner, for your answers. My constituents and national organizations representing seniors still tell me that when they call SSA, they usually get an offer to have someone call them back, not a live person addressing their question or problem. When callers choose a callback, could you tell me the average amount of time it takes for them to hear back from SSA? Can you name a single metric that SSA publishes that captures or tells whether a beneficiary received the right outcome, not the fastest, not the faster, not the cheapest, but one that is correct and complete? And will you commit to publishing these data, this information, so that the public know what to expect?
Frank Bisignano
I'd say first of all, we do post-call surveys, both on callbacks and first-time. Callback is a, an industry norm. It's not our specific item. We measure it the same way every industry does. We can say that we outperform more than 50% of the commercial entities and that we have performance at the high end in the federal government.
Having said that, we do post-call surveys on everything. And we have about an 89% satisfaction rate. I think if you think about, you know, your jurisdiction, we have three quarters of a million Social Security number holders in your jurisdiction, sir, and we're paying out more than 181 million a month to those beneficiaries.
Danny Davis
Will you publish this so that they will know exactly what to expect? Or tell them?
Danny Davis
Will you tell them so that they know what they can expect to receive and how long it's going to take?
Frank Bisignano
Well, when they call up, we give them an option. The option is, you have an X-minute wait time, an eight-minute wait time, a 10-minute wait time. And then we say, and if they say, if you would like a callback, we will call you within that time period. So we tell every caller what to expect relative to their callbacks.
Danny Davis
All right, then let me go to this question. In a 2015 change in SSA policy resulted in sharply increased denials of SSI benefits to children with sickle cell disease. Many parents of these children must reduce their work hours to help them get the comprehensive care they need, and of course they've got severe pain. These parents depend on SSI to help pay the bills. In 2025, the National Academies of Science report confirmed that the criteria should be changed so that these individuals got the help.
Could you tell us what you've done since then to change that policy?
Frank Bisignano
Well, we've actually spent time and gone through the elements that need to be changed. We have recommendations in to change them, and I'm happy to come see you and go through it with you.
Danny Davis
They've also indicated that they're having difficulty sitting down with you. Would you commit to meeting with the sickle cell advocates to dig into this and...?
Frank Bisignano
Happy to do it, and happy to do it with you and your staff together.
Danny Davis
And also, before we end, I'm kind of surprised that I've waited more than three months for a substantive answer to questions that I've asked relative to delayed tax refunds. Could you commit to getting us that information as quickly as maybe a week or two?
Jason Smith
Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Commissioner, thank you and welcome back to the Ways and Means Committee. I know you have multiple hats in serving the American people and we say thank you. Appreciate the work that you're doing in Social Security Administration.
You could be doing a lot of things and you've chosen to serve the people who are reliant on Social Security and the people of this country. So just want to say thank you. You don't hear that a lot, especially when you come before Congress. They like to criticize you and tell you how X, Y, and Z's not perfect and why you haven't fixed whatever. But as I was sitting here listening to some of that, Commissioner, I'm reminded I've been here 12 years on this committee.
12 years. But that's a very short time compared to a lot of people that have been here 30 and 40 years. And the last time Social Security was changed with benefits was 1983. But boy, we hear a lot of people up here talk about changing those benefits. But you're right, it's done by the legislative body, not by you.
And so Congress needs to get their act together to address Social Security and the insolvency that's coming instead of poking blame at other people whenever it is our duty and our responsibility. And so there's only been a couple changes to Social Security in the last 40 years. One of them was under my chairmanship with WEP GPO just in 2025. But we've seen nothing in years past. And so I hope, Commissioner, our colleagues will come together, both Republican and Democrat, to do it for those people who rely on Social Security.
My mother. Do it for people like my mother, that that's all she has. That is all she lives on. And that's difficult for her to do. But there's a lot of people like that and that's why we have to come together.
I have a few questions, Commissioner. As someone who represents a number of rural communities and many families that rely on Social Security in order to retire with dignity and security, I appreciate how important it is that people maintain reliable access to Social Security services, whether it is in contact with your agency by way of phone, online, or in person at your field offices. Commissioner, for folks unable to travel to field offices, how is the SSA expanded services and improved delivery through the other service channels since you last testified on this matter before the committee? And how have wait times and access improved under President Trump compared to the prior administration?
Frank Bisignano
Thank you, sir. I think first of all, we've always believed we should meet clients where they want to be met. If they want to come to a field office, we're there to serve them. If they want to call us on the phone, if they don't want to wait on the phone for the wait time, they can take a call back. And then, you know, as more and more people transact with us, more and more want to do it on the web.
If you look at what's happened, I'd say the first thing that I'd say is, you know, we had a system that said appointment needed when you came to a field office. Appointment needed. We sent people home.
We sent them home, right? Those signs no longer exist, and that was not only did we send those people home, we sent the employees home. So that was very convenient for everybody but somebody who wanted service. And then we had a web down 29 hours a week. By changing all that, what's actually happened is field office visits are down because people can access us on the phone.
Like we said, fiscal year to date, we've answered and served 13 million more Americans. We've saved Americans 40 million hours of wait time, and our web traffic is up 37%. And we'll do 800 million interactions. 3% of them happen in field offices physically, but we have 23,000 people there and we're going to serve the American public wherever they want to be met.
Jason Smith
Thank you, Commissioner, for doing that. This committee has been working to improve access to gainful employment opportunities for Americans receiving disability benefits from the Social Security Administration. We recently advanced legislation sponsored by Congressman Austin Scott, a strong advocate for disabled veterans, authorizing your agency to once again test potential policy changes that might improve access and remove barriers to work for Social Security disability insurance beneficiaries. At a hearing last fall, we heard from such beneficiary who told us that if he hadn't had someone help him with the complex disability rules, he would have, quote, graduated to the couch. Sadly, his experience is the exception to the rule.
Less than 1% of beneficiaries leave the program for work despite 60% of beneficiaries indicating they would like to work. While legislative efforts are underway, what is the agency doing today to improve access or remove barriers to employment opportunities for Americans living with disabilities that receive SSA-funded benefits?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I think the number one thing is our own advocacy with employment networks because we have a deep belief that we can be advocates in a larger standpoint to have them understand these are fabulous, fabulous Americans who are capable. Obviously continuing the journey to work on things like Ticket to Work also, which isn't on the initial disability but after. And I think it needs to be a concerted effort locally and nationally, and I look forward to working with everybody here on making progress on this. This is real good work, and the work that has to do as a person in the private sector who believed in veteran employment and created the 100,000 Jobs Mission, and that meant for disabled vets too, I understand how this can be done and we're going to get it done.
Jason Smith
You know, Social Security is not immune to the disease of fraud that seems to have infected so many parts of government.
As with other instances of the abuse and misuse of federal funds, fraud within Social Security robs not just taxpayers of hard-earned dollars, but beneficiaries of well-earned benefits. This committee advanced legislation through the House with unanimous support that would make it easier for victims of identity theft, including parents of children whose Social Security numbers have been compromised, to coordinate with the agency to resolve the matter. While that legislation sits over in the Senate, like so many other good pieces of legislation, what is the agency doing to combat fraud within the program and to better service beneficiaries needing your assistance when they are victims of identity theft?
Frank Bisignano
Well, we we are in the process right now of having dedicated resource just for person for identity theft. I think that was job one. I think above that job is a conversation I had earlier, which is a full reconciliation constantly of what is really the Social Security number database, because many times that fraud doesn't happen within Social Security. It happens in the other areas of government and elsewhere where that number gets used. So the ability for us to stay vigilant on the reconciliation, the ability for us to supply dedicated resource so people have a dedicated person to deal with, and then continue, continue data cleansing.
Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Chairman Estes and Chairman LaHood, for holding this hearing.
Speaker 18
Thank you, Chairman Smith. I now recognize Ms. Moore from Wisconsin for five minutes for questions.
Gwen Moore
Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome back, Mr. Commissioner. Last time you were here, you were the CEO of the IRS, but welcome back again. Um, you have waxed on about the, what do we call it, the speed of answer calls that people make, and you say that calls are like 10 minutes. Is that correct? Something like that.
Speaker 17
Uh, what was the word you used? Speed of answer metric? I I did I didn't hear what you're referring to.
Speaker 20
Okay, well, I'll share that with you because the the American Federation of Government Employees Council 220, I have a statement for the record where they call where they say the speed of answer metric was 10 minutes. The Washington, in March 19th of 2026, the Inspector General put out a report that said the actual wait time was more of what our constituents are telling us that it is, is 46 minutes to two hours. But the the IG's report was scrubbed by somebody, and they substituted a speed of answer metric, which was 10 minutes. And so, Mr. Chairman, without objection, I'm going to for the record a statement from the American Federation of Government Employees about this hearing and about the wait times.
Without objection, so ordered.
Speaker 21
Thank you so much. Um, Mr. Commissioner, you have said, you know, our experience, and I have a caseworker in my district, as do all of my colleagues, that says that that there have been so many reassignments, like 2,500 employees that had very specific skill sets that were all removed and and put on these this 800 number. So that when people do call the 800 number, um, the the questions that they, you know, depends on who answers the 800 call, those person don't have the answers, the skill set to help them. And so they don't get the proper answers that they get.
In addition to that, um, that comports very much so with what my staff has shared with me. That, um, that I guess in the, in the, that we have a 90-year low in the numbers of employees that the Social Security Administration has employed at a time when people like me, the baby boomers, that, um, as Mr. Larson points out all the time, that 10,000 of us are turning 65 every single day. And it seems sort of counterintuitive. Um, is the 800 number and the shuffling of staff, is that, is that supposed to realize some efficiencies that we haven't seen?
Frank Bisignano
First of all, um, I think a good way to think about this whole situation is we used to have 400 people on the phone at 8:00 AM in the morning, and that was not a sufficient number. That was predating me. That would go back to the era that you well remember where we told people appointments are needed. This was a sign from 2024, they've been ripped down, right? What we've seen is people sent home to do work from home in field offices.
Well, that's inappropriate. That's not what field offices is about. We, we...
Go ahead.
Speaker 21
I just want to know why people are waiting on the phone for 46 minutes and then when they finally do get somebody, somebody can't answer their questions because they're not calling the correct benefit officer. Um, and do you think the 800 number thing is supposed to be the magic bullet in place of having enough employees?
Frank Bisignano
What I think, in fact, is we have the right amount of staff in the right places.
Speaker 20
Okay, that's, okay, well, we, I don't agree with you on that, so no point in burning up my time.
Did he just say she doesn't know how to manage?
Yeah.
Was I talking to you?
Yeah, it is my time and he can ask a question.
50,000 people. So I don't know...
Do you know her capabilities of management?
Speaker 21
I can't resist, um, asking you as a CEO of the IRS about the $1.8 billion weaponization fund and, in addition, no audits. Well, how can I get in on that deal where the IRS won't audit me? Okay, thank you. Is this something available to me?
Speaker 26
I think, uh, this is the letter for this meeting. It's an SSA meeting. Um, the Treasury Secretary commented on this in the Ways and Means Committee.
Ron Estes
The gentlelady's time has expired. I just, uh, want to remind, uh, everybody that we're focusing on Social Security in this, this, this hearing to be able to talk about. I know the Commissioner, uh, does a lot of work. We want to make sure that we get, uh, Social Security information covered. So at, uh, pursuant to committee practice, we'll now proceed two-to-one questioning and now I'll, uh, recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Carey, for five minutes for questioning.
Mike Carey
Well, I want to thank the Chairman, uh, for, for having this hearing today. Mr. Bisignano, Commissioner, I want to thank you, uh, for taking the time to be here today.
First, I'd really like to talk about, and I know that you and I have had the opportunity to discuss some of the successes that you have had during your time in this position. Chiefly among them is something that this committee had the first hearing on in Louisiana, which was the implementation of the Social Security Fairness Act. And I know you and I have briefly discussed that. I'd like to commend you for getting these payments delivered, and I think this is something that's pretty telling. You were able to deliver these payments to these hardworking men and women, firefighters, teachers, police officers, five months ahead of schedule.
This is quite an achievement, really. The Social Security Fairness Act, many of my colleagues on both sides, was a bipartisan piece of legislation that many people elected to this office took 20 years to get enacted. So in November of '23, as I mentioned before, I chaired the first-ever hearing on the bill in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Then the bill was passed a year later, signed into law under President Biden. But it was the current Trump administration that implemented this.
And I just want to make sure I'm correct. It was the Trump administration that implemented the Social Security Fairness Act. Am I correct?
Mike Carey
And I want to thank you for clarifying that so that everybody understands the role that you played in getting these benefits into the hands of the retired public servants that so desperately needed them. The work was not just identifying and providing, I mean, these numbers are staggering, more than 17 billion dollars in retroactive benefits to 3.1 million of hardworking Americans. It was also adjusting the monthly benefits for all those people over the next, for the future years. So Commissioner, can you explain for all of us how your agency was able to execute this monumental undertaking so efficiently and so successfully?
Frank Bisignano
Well, first of all, thank you for the question. And as I sit here, I recognize that that in your district, that was 14 million dollars that went to more than 2,100 recipients. And in fact, if you think about it, within your district, we're paying benefits of more than 400 million a month. So powerful, powerful, and your support is tremendous. I think when we came, when I came in in May and checked on the status of it, they said it would be done by 11/30.
And I asked the barriers, and fundamentally the barriers were applying people to the work. But what became very clear to me was through a few meetings that we could technically solve the problem. And much of the gains we've made in the agency's been through technology, not through any other means. You know, you can't just throw people at problems in this day and age, you got to use technology. So the CIO and myself and the head of the processing center that was doing these spent some time, and we were done by June 30th.
Speaker 10
June 30th, but it was our great technologists who I think are delivering a lot of what you hear here in the enhancements, whether it's on the web, whether it's in the field offices or on the phone.
Mike Carey
And and I appreciate you pointing out, um, you know, the the numbers that were in our district. And I just think for all of Ohioans, um, because there are 15 congressional districts, but the numbers that I had for all of Ohio, approximately 223,000 Ohioans received a total of 1.85 billion as a result of this. And and again, a credit to you. I'd also like to take my last moment to turn attention to the impact the technology has done, but obviously I only have eight seconds and and hopefully we can get the wait time even further, but from 47 to five minutes, that's pretty good. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Ron Estes
Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Yakum from Indiana for five minutes for questions.
Rudy Yakym
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Commissioner Bisignano, thanks for being here today. I want to start by thanking you for taking the time to come and see me in my office here in advance of this hearing. Really appreciate the direct communication that you and I have. You've been very responsive to me, your team is responsive to my team, and I just want to thank you for that. Also want to say thank you for what you committed to over a year ago, which is to take a metric-driven and a results-oriented approach to operations.
You've certainly, as you look over the course of the last year, you've been someone that has led the change inside of Social Security operations. You can either lead the change or change the leader, and we appreciate the work that you've done and certainly hope that that continues into the future. I'd like to to start with a question regarding something that you and I spoke about a year ago, and that was on March 1st, Martin O'Malley, President of President Biden's Social Security Commissioner, he predicted, and I quote, "Ultimately, you're going to see a collapse in the system and an interruption of benefits." He said, "I believe you will see that within the next 30 to 90 days." It's now been 466 days since he has made that statement.
Commissioner Bisignano, has Social Security collapsed and have benefits been interrupted? I don't think they have. Is that correct?
Frank Bisignano
No, they've outperformed in double-digit fashion, but I kind of understand why he said that because he was telling people who drove to your field office, "Go home, appointments needed." He took field office employees and sent them home and disregarded the fact that the web was down 29 hours a week. So, uh, I think maybe he had a formula for that, but thank the good Lord we had the support of all of you and the President to change that outcome.
Rudy Yakym
Commissioner Bisignano, when when people like Martin O'Malley are out there making these apocalyptic statements, when they're spreading these conspiracy theories, hyperbolic predictions, how much more difficult is it for you to do your job thanks to Democrats like Martin O'Malley?
Frank Bisignano
Well, I don't think it makes it any harder, you know, it's it's something we don't really pay attention to. Uh, if you listen to boo birds in right field, you're not going to win games. Our career employees love what they do. Our leadership team has stayed intact, not one change on that team, and that's political and career. And I think they've risen to the occasion, they're proud of what they're doing, more proud than they ever have been.
You know, we used to describe Social Security as 70-plus million recipients of payments and keeping, you know, 15 or 20 percent of the people out of poverty. I think that actually affected the self-esteem of the department because most people they talk to every day are not a beneficiary.
We have a disability process that is judges and, you know, we're helping them through their process. And if you come to a field office, the number one thing asked for is a replacement card, which we've built the technology for them not to have to come. So I think we've elevated the esteem of the department as the largest digital financial service provider in the world. You know, with 102 million digital accounts. And yes, with only 3% of our volume coming into field offices and half our staff in field offices, we will never close a field office.
Rudy Yakym
Well, let's talk through some of those changes you've made because the number of beneficiaries continues to increase, which makes Social Security even that much more important as we go into the future. Of course, that provides for, you know, there'd be increased demand on your employees, increased demand on services, it could provide for a strain on systems. But of course, the Hoosiers that I serve have the same expectations for quick service, quick decisions, and accurate solutions. In fact, your agency received roughly 722 million service requests in fiscal year 2025. That's 113 million more than the previous year, or a 19% increase.
What operational reforms are most important to ensure that your agency can continue to meet the rising customer demands?
Frank Bisignano
Well, we had something called iClaims, and iClaims sounded great if you did it, but it took a really long time to get ultimately finished because what it was was a claimant put their claim in online, but it never went through the system. Somebody else inputted it, fraught with errors. We've determined straight-through processing, we've built the edits, and right now, you know, we're processing Medicare claims to the hundreds of thousands. It's moving to retirement claims, and it happens in days, not weeks. So those are the types of things that allow us to serve more Americans.
That's what we're talking about, serving more Americans quicker than ever before.
Ron Estes
Thank you. I now recognize Ms. Chu from California for five minutes for questioning.
Judy Chu
Commissioner Bisignano, you used to have all kinds of data points on your website on customer service, but last year you took them down and instead you have one highly misleading metric, which is your celebration of reducing the average speed of answer on SSA's phone line from 42 minutes back in 2024 to now just five minutes. Is it accurate that in calculating this number, your agency records a caller who selects the option to receive a callback as having a zero-minute wait, regardless of how long that callback takes to arrive? I just want a yes or no answer.
Frank Bisignano
I'll tell you a couple things, even though you want a yes or no answer. First of all, we have more metrics up than ever before on the web. So let's just start there.
Frank Bisignano
Second, I'll answer your question. The answer is yes, and that's an industry standard across every industry, that's how it's counted.
Judy Chu
Okay, so then thank you for that answer because that says yes, you record that as a zero-minute wait.
Speaker 33
Well, okay. And what percent of callers who select the callback option, what is their current average wait to get that callback, not the average speed of answer, but the wait time specifically to get a callback? And I heard your answer to Mr. Davis earlier. I don't want the post-satisfaction survey, I want an actual number in terms of how long it takes for them to get a callback.
Frank Bisignano
Takes today under 30 minutes on average. By the way, some take five minutes.
Judy Chu
Well, okay. Then how about the next one, which is what is the current average wait for callers who choose to remain on hold, not the average speed of answer, but the average time callers wait on hold until they are able to speak with someone? Again, I want a specific number.
Speaker 33
Okay, I do have the answers to these three questions. One is you record those who have a do the option for a callback as a zero-minute wait. The percentage of callers who get the callback option have to wait, according to the Inspector General, one hour and 51 minutes. And the courage current average wait for callers who choose to remain on hold is 59 minutes. So, Commissioner, I find it extremely misleading that you're touting this so-called average speed of answer of five minutes as improved customer service when the number has little to do with what the American people are really experiencing when they're trying to call SSA.
In fact, this number of five minutes is dramatically lower than the actual wait times, and we know this because we hear countless stories from our own constituents about being stuck on the phone for hours. But we also have the data because the SSA's own Inspector General did a study this last December and found that the while the average speed last year in 2025 was 16 minutes, the real average time for people on hold was almost an hour, and the average wait time to get a callback was almost two hours. And why was the actual average speed so much lower? Because every time somebody chose that callback option, your agency counted that as a wait time of zero, so the average lowered very dramatically. So, Commissioner, the American people deserve accurate information on how long they can expect to wait when trying to get help for their benefits.
And SSA used to share all that information on its website, but you did remove that last year, and it makes one wonder whether you're trying to hide the actual numbers when it comes to customer service. And that brings me to another data point, which is about the wait times for in-person appointments. And one news report followed a woman whose husband passed away in July of last year but couldn't get an in-person appointment to apply for survivor benefits until October, even though she had started calling SSA to schedule just days after her husband's death. That's three months of waiting just to start the process. Once she finally got an appointment, she then had to wait at least four months.
So I urge you to restore these real data points to your agency's website and update them regularly because the public deserves to know. And I yield back.
Speaker 36
Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Bean from Florida for five minutes for questioning.
Aaron Bean
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good morning to you. Good morning, Ways and Means Committee. Good morning, Commissioner. Welcome back to Ways and Means.
There's been talk of how you're doing. It says this. Well, guess what, Commissioner? I have your report card right here. Let's review it, shall we?
It says you are now serving more Americans with fewer employees.
Wait times on the national 800 number have shrunk by 84%. Wait times have gone from 42 minutes to 7 minutes. And you have taken the backlog of disability claims, it's been reduced by 33% from an historic high of 1.27 million pending claims in 2024. Thank you for doing that and it's pretty good. It's a report card that you should probably put on your refrigerator.
That's how good this is, Commissioner. But you said in your opening statement you're not done. You can do better. What can this committee assist you with to make those numbers even, put some pluses on those A's? What can we do, Commissioner, to help you?
Frank Bisignano
Well, I think being here is very helpful because it gets you to understand the strategy. The strategy is really about meeting clients where they want to be met. The strategy is about understanding what is the expectation across industry in general.
Aaron Bean
Whatever you're doing, that recipe for your team is helped, it's helped my team. We don't get as many calls on help me with my Social Security. So thank you for for doing that. Social Security, though, has a history of trying to do their own computer programs and doing things. That hasn't gone well in the past.
So are you still looking at private vendors that can take us to the next level in processing? I met with a company called Evolution IQ and I'm sure there's others, but this company just has worked for several states and they expedite claims and they also root out fraud. Is that something you're looking at, Commissioner?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, well, we're we're always focused on how we're going to bring advanced technology. You know, if you'll look at what we did with taking the 29 hours a week of downtime off the web, that was a mix of really great engineers inside and and some other people. If you look at what we're doing in fraud using advanced analytics. So, you know, there's no great tech org that can just do everything themselves. And I think it's not about modernizing, it's about transforming.
And transforming ultimately for the benefit of the American public.
Aaron Bean
10-4. And so you are looking at private vendors and whatnot, anything that we can do to to do better than we're already doing. I want to give you some time. And I know it's been publicized this week, 2032 is going to be a crossover date where we have to make changes before that date. Make changes in, I would hate to see that anybody in Congress would use fear, but we have to make sound decisions.
And we've got time to make some decisions. So I want to give you some time. Your thoughts on that date, your thoughts on some of the changes, changes that could be made without affecting anybody that's already on the on the Social Security program. What say you, Commissioner?
Frank Bisignano
Well, what what I thought the first thing that was mandatory is to get it to work right. Right? You know, I always think if you make the operations better, people are prepared to invest in those operations. And no matter what we want to do, all we have to do is compare the data from 24 to date on how the American public's being served and compare the data in our control environment. You know, we came we we took down control issues by fundamentally 80% and reduced, you know, $16 billion of erroneous problems.
Aaron Bean
No, and I know once we eliminate fraud, there's billions of still of payments that we've made. They can just bill the government or or utilize fraud in a lot of spaces. Bank robbers or people that have stolen money have to have realized they don't have to rob banks anymore.
What about your thoughts, I know we just got a little bit, but on on Social Security not having the funds going forward in 2032? What are your thoughts there?
Frank Bisignano
Like I said, I always thought my job was to make it perform as well as possible so you all have a set of options and choices to decide on how this great American program, which is, you know, fundamentally called by some the largest insurance program out there, others could call it the largest retirement program out there. Anyway, the idea is to make it perform well so you all can make the decisions.
Aaron Bean
Thank you for your service, Commissioner. Thanks for that information and there will be some big decisions that have to be made with this program. Mr. Chairman, yield back. Thank you so much.
Max Miller
Well, thank you. Now recognize Mr. Miller from Ohio for five minutes for questioning.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good to see you again, Mr. Bisignano. And thank you for after our last hearing and the phone call and applaud you and your efforts for what you're doing in SSA. So it's good to see you again.
Good to see you.
Max Miller
So Social Security is not an abstraction. It's a promise, as we know, and to workers who spent decades contributing to families who lost an income earner, to Americans with disabilities, and to retirees who helped build this country. As you know, more than 71 million people depend on monthly benefits and this agency touches virtually every American family. It must work. For too long it didn't.
Outdated technology, antiquated processes, and the service model that left beneficiaries waiting sometimes over 40 minutes on the phone defined the SSA for decades. The disability backlog reached an all-time high of 1.27 million claims. That in it is unacceptable. Progress is now being made and we're very appreciative. Phone wait times have now dropped 84%.
Field office wait times are down 30%. The disability backlog has been cut by a third and Social Security Fairness Act was implemented months ahead of schedule. So applaud your efforts and your team on that. But progress is not a reason to stop. We must keep investing in technology that improves the experience for every beneficiary and greater efficiency must mean fewer improper payments.
Every dollar lost to error or fraud is a dollar that should have reached someone who earned it. I also want to raise an issue that deserves more attention. The barriers this system places on people with disabilities who want to work. 60% of DI and SSI recipients say they want to, yet the Ticket to Work program is barely reaching them. Only one in ten has ever used it.
A third have never even heard of it. Those who try face a 70-page guidebook, a punishing process that anyone would have trouble getting through, and a system so slow that even a proper wage reporting can trigger an overpayment months later, which is insane and unnecessary paperwork as we all know. Government programs should open doors and not build walls. So, you know, Commissioner, as I stated above, about one in ten DI and SSI beneficiaries has used the Ticket to Work program and a third have never even heard of it. Meanwhile, 60% of recipients say they want to work.
So what specific steps are you and the SSA taking to simplify work incentive rules, improve beneficiary awareness, and critically fix the overpayment problem that truly punishes the people who try to return to work even when they follow the rules?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I think those are all great points that are all being worked on. Why don't we start at the top because we are now, and I would I would give the committee credit and Chairman LaHood for being dedicated to Ticket to Work and spending time with his office on Ticket to Work. And the real answer is greater education by every network out there. You know, we put somebody in charge of the program. There was no one in charge of it.
If you don't have someone in charge of it, the odds of it succeeding is zero. We did the same with SSI. I think that allows us to go out to the outside and explain to them and to people on the inside who are on the program. And we have an opportunity to talk to these people all the time on disability and improving that dialogue.
So I think we're at the start. I think the program did not have the attention. If you don't have a dedicated, we did on SSI and ticket to work, the dedicated executive who reports into me and they run the program. So I would expect when, you know, and happy to give updates as I have to Chairman Hood on those items. Relative to improper payments, the more we build out our payment information exchange, which we do with massive orgs who have the data and we've really veered into it, and the more we cut down payment cycles, the better our accuracy of payment as opposed to improper payment will be and continue to be.
Max Miller
Thank you very much for that detailed answer and response. And previously when you were brought in here, you know, I believe that I treated you very unfairly. And I just want to say, as a Social Security administrator, you're doing a phenomenal job. So I do, well no, I, it means a lot to me and I like to sleep at night. So I do want to apologize in front of you and your entire staff and everyone in the committee and people who are here.
You were put in a very untenous position and something you received something that you never asked for. But you're doing the best that you can and I very much appreciate what you're doing on behalf of the American people. And I'm very glad to see that our constituents in the 7th District in Cuyahoga, Medina, Wayne, and Holmes, and soon to be Ashland, if they call Social Security, they no longer have to wait until maybe their grandchild is born. So thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Well, you know, there's 381 million dollars a month that go to your beneficiaries in your district. So congrats for what you're doing.
Speaker 41
Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Horsford from Nevada for five minutes for questioning.
Steven Horsford
Thank you, Chairman Estes, and to the ranking member. Commissioner, last year you came before the committee and committed to ensuring that Social Security field offices would be better staffed, more efficient, and better equipped to serve the public. Today, Nevada families are experiencing something that's very different. In Las Vegas, disability hearing wait times average nearly 11 months, among the longest in the nation. My office continues to hear from seniors, people with disabilities, and working families who cannot get answers and cannot access benefits that they deserve.
Last year you promised improvements. Today, Las Vegas disability applicants are waiting nearly 11 months. Do you believe that that's acceptable, yes or no?
Speaker 27
Well, what I know is that as an example, your field office wait times are down 60 percent, right? And that that's a 34-minute decrease from 24. I'm not looking at your disability numbers and I'll come back to you on them, but if you look at our total disability numbers.
Speaker 27
I'll compare them with you because I didn't hear you talking about the field offices.
Steven Horsford
I did. That's where I started. 11 months for disability. Did you understand? I just asked if 11 months was acceptable or not.
Yes or no, is it acceptable that people should wait 11 months? Commissioner, reclaiming my time. I'm going to, rather than us going back and forth, let me share a message from one of my constituents that told me and my staff that they have been calling and visiting the local office for months and nobody can tell them anything.
My case has sat unresolved for seven months. I have no food, I can't pay my rent, and I'm facing eviction. Commissioner, that is not a statistic, that is a Nevadan. So will you designate a senior SSA point person to work directly with me and my office on unresolved constituent cases like this one, yes or no?
Thank you.
I right now show that you have seven pending...
Steven Horsford
Thank you, thank you, Commissioner. No, you don't want to really deal with the numbers. Commissioner, this week Speaker Johnson said on a local radio program, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid need to be, quote, adjusted and fixed. Americans who rely on Social Security deserve a clear answer. Have you been involved in any discussions about reducing Social Security benefits, raising the retirement age, or restricting eligibility for benefits, yes or no?
Steven Horsford
That is important for me to know on the record. Now, I would like the Speaker and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to tell us what they mean by adjusted and fixed when it comes to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Let me turn to the issue around the average SSDI beneficiary receives about $19,000 a year. The average retired worker receives about $25,000 a year. Should Americans who paid into Social Security their entire working lives have to wait 11 months for a disability hearing, yes or no?
Speaker 27
Disability hearing time is at an all-time low. All-time low, it's at an all-time low. How long you been standing up there, sitting there, how many years? How many years you been here?
Speaker 27
Well, it's the best performance you've ever had, so you should think about that.
Speaker 45
Well, it's not good enough for the people who paid into a system and deserve...
Steven Horsford
I haven't allowed anything. Commissioner, can you guarantee that no Nevadan Social Security number, earnings record, or medical information was shared with an unauthorized third party, yes or no?
Steven Horsford
And you will state that for the record, that none of their personal information has been shared with a third party, unauthorized third party.
I just said it.
Steven Horsford
All right. It is important because Americans trust Social Security Administration with their most sensitive personal information. And my constituents are not asking for excuses, they're asking for service. They earned these benefits and they deserve timely access to them. And I'll work with you, thank you for your commitment today, along with my office to resolve these cases and reduce these unacceptable delays.
Whether it's 11 months, six months, or one month, they deserve their benefits. With that, I yield back.
Nathaniel Moran
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bisignano, thank you for being here today. As Commissioner, you oversee one of the most impactful agencies in the federal government, ensuring that millions of Americans receive their benefits. There's no question about that. Under your leadership and the leadership of President Trump, the Social Security Administration has made meaningful progress in reducing wait times, addressing backlogs, and improving service delivery for beneficiaries across the country.
You've been citing a number of these statistics throughout the hearing today. I want to give you before I move on a chance to respond because you were trying to provide Mr. Horsford some statistics for his district but he cut you off. I'd like to give you an opportunity to finish what you were saying and to cite those statistics.
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, what I was saying is in 2024 it took 56 minutes in a field office to get served and today it takes 22. I also know because we have a centralized system that never existed before that there's seven pending congressional inquiries with us from his office. And we would like every one of them resolved. But you know, this is the pure real data captured the same way it was before. We never knew how much was in congressional offices before until we built a system so we could know every one.
That's all I was trying to say the facts.
Nathaniel Moran
Yeah, those are great statistics. No, but I did want to give Mr. Bisignano absolutely an opportunity. I did not yield time. I did not yield my time. So I think that's really impressive out of 800,000 people in a congressional district that you have seven open claims in that district and that you've committed to resolve those claims and that you've reduced those wait times significantly in the past year to the lowest in record.
So I think that's really impressive. You've also emphasized the importance of combating fraud and protecting beneficiaries who seek to exploit the system. I believe members on both sides of the aisle share the goal of ensuring that Americans, particularly seniors, are protected from bad actors who target them for financial gain. Unfortunately, many of these malign actors operate from overseas, including from China. As the Social Security Administration's Office of Inspector General has noted, transnational criminal networks are increasingly targeting older Americans through sophisticated fraud schemes that steal billions of dollars each year.
Far too often these criminals deceive victims into providing sensitive personal information or transferring funds, causing significant financial harm and undermining confidence in government programs. Mr. Commissioner, I remain deeply concerned about foreign actors targeting American seniors through fraud schemes designed to steal their benefits and sensitive personal information. Can you tell us what specific steps is the Social Security Administration taking to prevent foreign-based fraudsters and other bad actors from accessing beneficiaries' accounts or stealing their benefits?
Frank Bisignano
Well, the first thing I'd like to refer to is two key strategic things we did as I came in and assessed the situation. We created a chief risk officer reporting directly to me. And we went and recruited out of the Secret Service and then the head of the park police to be the head of cybersecurity, security, and resiliency. And why those are so important is that's the first lines of defense we have is having the right talent with the right expertise to be able to prevent fraud, identify bad actors. Obviously we've been very focused, you know, we do everything, the IG and ourselves work closely on all types of fraud prevention.
And along with it, you know, I think highlighting in every imaginable way communicating with our elderly. I think it's important that they recognize the scamsters out there. Yesterday another broadcast we did Slam the Scam Day with the Inspector General. We prevent elder abuse or just abuse that could happen as people scamming them and their money. And we try to broadcast as much to all networks, you know, that how to protect their identity and that there's no federal agency that will ever call and ask them to do something that they wouldn't naturally do.
Nathaniel Moran
Yeah, and I think I heard you say earlier about these two new positions, that they were once lower positions and you've elevated them to report directly to you because of the significance and the impact. Did I hear that correctly?
Yes, sir.
Nathaniel Moran
Yeah, I think that's the right way to go because and that should send a message to the American people that you're serious about protecting their data and the funds that are coming to them. That's the kind of reorganization and the management of 50,000 employees that we've needed for a really long time. We appreciate the work that you're doing, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Ron Estes
Thank you. I recognize Mr. Feenstra from Iowa for five minutes for questioning.
Randy Feenstra
Thank you, Chairman Estes. I greatly appreciate holding this. I thank you also, Commissioner Bisignano, for coming. I'm just so impressed. I appreciate what you have done for this agency.
It's just have seen tremendous progress since you've been there from reducing the phone and field office wait times to modernizing the agency and strengthening internal oversight. You know, I just heard you talk about fraud and prevention of it. Kudos to you for addressing that. That has not been done in decades and you've done that, delivering faster, more reliable service to millions of Americans is really making a difference to my beneficiaries and I'm very grateful for all your leadership. I'm also glad to see that the CBO's most recent 10-year economic outlook includes an easy-to-understand graph showing scheduled and payable benefits that my bill called for in the Savior Seniors Act.
We got to have transparency. I think every person in the country needs to know where SSA stands. This is key. As we move forward, Bisignano, can you talk about transparency and how we can continue to improve our system for all Americans when it comes to Social Security Administration?
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, well, I think what we like to do is ensure the information that we're providing equals what the American public wants to know. And I think most of all, you know, understanding what happens in our field office, what happens on the phone, and what happens on the web. And I think that's the way they transact with us. And then on the web, having them availability to do everything they can, including getting their Benny statement. And of course, not everybody can print it at home, but of course many can come in our field office and get that whenever they want.
We're building better functionality that if they can't print it at home but they have the web, that we'll print it right there for them and waiting for them. You know, I think Social Security with over 100 million digital users and over 300 million Social Security numbers serving America is the number one personal identifier for everybody and protecting that is first and foremost.
Speaker 48
The GAO raised long-standing concerns about the weakness in the SSA's oversight and governance of the IT investments. For instance, before you took over as commissioner, the SSA spent multiple years and paid 160 million in transition for the national 800 number phone systems to the Next Generation Telephone project, just for the agency to abandon the system in August '24. Yep, I agree, I agree. So this predates your tenure at the agency. What changes have you made to strengthen accountability for major IT investments?
I mean, I see IT so critical as we're moving forward in this agency. Can you just briefly talk about that?
Frank Bisignano
Yes. I think the first thing is management visibility. And so we built this tool, which is a great tool and our technology org is delivering more than it ever has, which allows all projects to have full visibility to all those engaged.
And any date change or dollar economic change gets flashed immediately. So call it, it's called SSA 360, but every project has an ROI to it, and we manage it in a diligent fashion. And I think that's a big governor to how we run the place. You know, we look at the numbers, we ensure projects are on track, and we ensure it's getting the desired result.
Speaker 48
Can you also, so you got that moving forward, which is awesome. How do you allow your workforce to be trained in these new technologies? Is that a challenge, or can you manage that?
Frank Bisignano
No, I think, I think you'll always have some balance of needing external expertise and internal expertise. That would be true everywhere in the world, not just here. I think it starts off with, and I'll give a shout-out to our CIO. I think if you ask the great people who have spent their careers in Social Security, we actually have a technologist in charge of technology.
Sort of important.
Frank Bisignano
As a matter of fact, he was a technologist for a payment company, and if you look at the heart of one of the main things we do, it's payments. Right, and I think there is no substitute for experience. And I think our CIO's done an outstanding job.
Well, I just want to tell you, I think you're a rock star and what you're doing in this agency, Commissioner. Thanks for all your work, and I yield back.
I now recognize Mr. Evans from Pennsylvania for five minutes for questioning.
Dwight Evans
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, Mr. Commissioner. Part of this administration's failure on Social Security has been taking back payments. Sometimes Social Security payments, someone pays more through no fault of their own. When President Trump returned to office, he brought back withholding a person's check to withhold payments.
Later, it was brought down to 50%, but it's still too high. I have a bill to cap withholding at 10%. We must pass this bill to protect Americans' earned benefits. Our seniors should not be forced to choose between rent, food, and healthcare. I say those things to you, Mr. Commissioner, because people have real concerns.
Speaker 49
Could you, I apologize, and ask you to move your mic a little closer, Mr. Evans?
Speaker 52
I say those things to you because people have real concerns about the withholding of payments and the fact that part of this administration's failure on Social Security has been taking back payments. I have a bill to cap withholding at 10%. We must pass this bill to protect Americans' earned benefits. When President Trump returned to office, he brought back withholding a person's check to withhold these payments. Later, it was brought down to 50%, but it's still too high.
Our seniors should not be forced to choose between rent, food, and healthcare. So I stress that to you, Commissioner, because this is earned benefits. This is something people have earned. They should make sure we should make sure. So I want to yield the balance of my time to you if you have any comments to give me comments.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, sir.
I now recognize Mr. Moore from Utah for five minutes for questioning.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 53
Thank you, sir. I now recognize Mr. Moore from Utah for five minutes for questioning.
Blake Moore
Thank you, Chairman. Thanks for being here, Mr. Commissioner. First, I want to thank you for your work that you've done to modernize the Social Security Administration as well as bringing in technology to try to enhance the experience. Only in Congress could you, as a recovering management consultant, only in Congress could you come and get criticized for using industry standards and KPIs and measuring yourself against these indicators that can actually help you improve. So just know that it's appreciated and the work that you're doing is definitely valued.
I'd like to enter for the record on the importance of technology modernization from Atticus, a company dedicated to helping beneficiaries navigate the SSA. I'd like to enter this record, this letter, into the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
Blake Moore
Thank you. First question relates to the disability insurance beneficiaries who are able to work and are starting the process of reentering the workforce. As these Americans explore work opportunities, one of the major questions they have is how their current benefits may be impacted after returning to work. This information is not readily available and often takes months to get from SSA. How can the SSA help these beneficiaries?
Can they provide them and their representation with this information? Can it be done through online access? Just a little bit of thoughts there.
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I think all the above. And what you're highlighting is something that I think we should also work with the advocate community and create the right portal for them for their own individual situation so they have a basic statement that tells them everything they're asking and they don't have to navigate. And I'm happy to get the team to go look at that, go to the advocate community, make sure we have alignment on what good looks like and produce it.
Blake Moore
Is this stuff enhanced online capabilities for advocates could be able to access that even better than some beneficiaries as well as making the disability insurance beneficiaries, is it can be done something that's in real time?
Yeah.
Blake Moore
Okay, awesome. I want to talk quickly about walk-in. I know there's been back and forth on walk-in appointments. As you know, I represent Northern Utah and there's an Ogden office. I've spoken with community members, heard multiple concerns about some of the inconsistencies with walk-in options at the Ogden SSA office.
As I understand it, SSA officially ended walk-in appointments in early 2024, but Ogden office only stopped them for a few weeks before resuming. At one point, Ogden SSA was I think the only location in Utah to offer walk-in appointments and now the Ogden office has again stopped the in-person appointments. Difficult for some members of the community and the beneficiaries to navigate everything online. They do like an option to be able to walk in. Can you provide an update on current status of walk-in appointments and work you're doing to ensure the top-tier customer service continued at SSA?
Frank Bisignano
Well, this sign was in all the offices. Appointment needed. Appointments are required for most services at Social Security. I'm disappointed to hear about Ogden because we ripped them down and said nobody should ever be turned away. And so I need to go find out why that's happening there because the standard is walk-ins are accepted as is.
Yes, if people want an appointment, we'll make them an appointment. But I don't think we should ever refuse a walk-in.
Love it. And we'll help however we can.
I got to go figure out what's going on there.
Blake Moore
Great. Let us use our office, our resources as we're close to it. We'll be all in to be able to help navigate this. And I think everybody from your end through the local offices, our office, all want ultimately what's best and ease of use. So we'll do what we can.
Yeah.
Blake Moore
One last question. We're tracking the SSA recently joined the Trusted Exchange Framework and Common Agreement, TEFCA, this network for transmitting electronic health information. It's a standards body that sets rules and baseline requirements for health information network across the country. How will joining this network speed up the process of DI claims?
Frank Bisignano
Well, you know, it's broader than just that's an element of it, right? We have a system that is coming in effect that should just completely transform what this process is in terms of getting to decisioning a lot quicker. The whole objective is decisioning a lot quicker. Of course, if you went back over time, the size of a file has completely changed. But I think we could revert it all back.
We will, you know, use AI in the process too to help us get information to those who need it a lot quicker than possible. So, you know, we're in relentless pursuit on every indicator in the place to just continually to get a historic best norm. So I have great expectations for the exchange. I have great expectations for what we're doing in the base build we're doing. And I think we should never talk about times going up, but only down in the future for the rest of our life.
Speaker 54
Thanks for bringing a business approach to this. Appreciate it. Yield back.
Speaker 55
Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Smucker from Pennsylvania for five minutes for questioning.
Lloyd Smucker
Thank you to the chairman. Thank you, Commissioner, for your work at Social Security. And I want to go back maybe to the beginning of this hearing, some of the comments that have been made by the ranking member, who I have a great deal of respect for because I know he cares so deeply about this program. And I agree with much of what he said in that this is, I think, Social Security critically important to hundreds or I don't know how many million people, you know that number.
Over 300 million.
Speaker 55
So hundreds of millions, over 300 million. And it's probably the best anti-poverty program that we have going. This is designed to ensure that our elderly senior citizens do not live in poverty. And so I think we agree on much of that. I do want to push back just a little bit on the efficiency portion of it.
The two don't need to be at odds with one another. Like we really want, first of all, the promises that have been made to people who have been paying into the system to be upheld. We want people to be confident that they're going to have the benefits that they've been promised. So that's really important. But we also want them to be able to access that in an efficient, like when they call in, we want them to get the responses.
And we want you as a commissioner to design a system where we're ensured that every single dollar is going to the individual whose promise has been made and not to someone else. So I just want to say I appreciate the work that you're doing to try to drive a more efficient system to deliver those important benefits. And when I hear things like the wait time has gone down from 42 minutes to 7 minutes, I think that's pretty good result for people who are calling in. Wait times at field offices reduced by 30%.
I don't know if these are all accurate, but this is what's in front of us. I can tell you the Social Security system is of federal agencies where individuals call into our office, it's one of the top. And I'd love to see that reduced because we know that it's working better. So I want a more efficient system. And I think we should all want that.
I also agree, and I'm going to want you to respond to this, as a trustee of the system, knowing the report you just put out, the trustees put out yesterday, that says that Social Security will no longer, will be insolvent essentially within six years. And barring an act of Congress, everyone would get a reduction of 22% of their benefits. I don't think people really get that or understand that. And in fact, I saw, I was just discussing a poll yesterday that only 30% of the American people had any kind of inkling that that was the case. And I think it's incumbent on us to solve that.
And I want members of the public to be calling in and demanding that their members of Congress be taking action. And yes, you could raise the payroll tax, but that won't solve it. That'd be one potential thing. And in fact, if you did it only through taxes, it would be the largest tax increase on younger wage-earning people that we've ever, the largest increase we've ever seen. And I'm just not sure if it's fair.
Well, I'm almost out of time. I'd love to have your response, but I'm not sure it's fair to be demanding a lot more from our wage earners today to help individuals when there's no income cap for those earnings. So for instance, another change we could potentially make would be to means-test it so that it truly is an anti-poverty program. And I'd love to have this discussion, would love to work with Mr. Larson and the chairman to help solve this. We've got to do it, and we can do it and ensure benefits are kept.
But as a trustee, what responsibility do you feel that you have as a trustee to help people understand the situation that we're in, and what are your plans to help make the public more aware of the situation we're in so they're calling their members of Congress and asking them to solve it? You have a second to answer that. I'm sorry. No, literally, what...
Frank Bisignano
Well, I'm not the first, I look at, I'm the Commissioner of Social Security, and it's a six-year term, and I understood that during that period of time, or at least I was hopeful, that we would solve this problem. Right? So I came into this understanding we needed to fix something. I think the first thing was to work on the President's mandate, protect and preserve. And to protect and preserve meant to do exactly what we're doing: serve the American public better, so in fact it would give you all the opportunity to think about what is right and hear from your constituents.
And then, and then lastly, I think higher quality costs less. So this idea, I don't really think of it as efficiency, I think about quality for the American public, and we should be able to do it with less fraud, less waste, and less abuse, and we see that in billions of dollars.
So I thought that was job one and empower you all to feel confident that we have something that can last for another 90 years in its way to operate and then in fact say what are we going to do about it. And look at, I think as a trustee we produce a trustees report that tells everybody the facts.
Speaker 62
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentleman's time has expired. Now recognize Mr. Beyer from Virginia for five minutes for questioning.
Donald Beyer
Mr. Bisignano, thank you for coming back again. I had a chance to recently visit my Social Security office for a morning. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and Mr. Ranking Member. I was impressed, great people, they love their work, they love helping people. The one uncomfortable part is that they all felt overwhelmed.
That to catch up on the paperwork after meeting with customers all day, it often work into the evenings or have to come in on Saturdays. It was one month for an appointment and if you did the walk-ins, which they were still taking, it was basically you waited all day. And I know you go back a year it was, you know, 120-minute wait time, so I appreciate that you identified addressing phone wait times was an important priority. But previously when employees were temporarily assigned to phones during emergency situations, they apparently received months of training and they shadowed a full-time phone operator. Now it's reported that they're getting three hours of training before being placed on phones basically the same day.
And that they're sometimes given bizarre and dangerous instructions. Let me quote from Government Executive, which is not a left-wing newspaper. That the Social Security Administration has instructed employees newly assigned to answering phones to tell callers expressing suicidal thoughts that suicide is only one option. Can you take responsibility for the poor training for newly assigned employees and why not just get new trained staff rather than moving existing staff over temporarily? The notion that the demand for the phone calls, even with the move to online, is not going away.
Frank Bisignano
Yeah, I think that let's make sure we got our facts right, I always like that. In 2024, in your district, the wait time in field offices was 77.8 minutes. It's a number produced before I was here, it wasn't my number. But we use the same exact methodology that we use there. Today, the wait time in your field offices are 18.6 minutes.
That's 60 minutes, that's 60 minutes less.
Speaker 61
Mr. Commissioner, that was not, I appreciate that and I'm not questioning those. My ask was what about the training for the temporary people?
Frank Bisignano
Congressman, Congressman, right? This is a holistic thing we do serving Americans, right, whether they call on the phone, whether they walk in the field office, whether they go on the web.
Speaker 58
What do you think about, what do you think about one of your members, your phone callers telling people with suicide, active suicide thoughts, that it's just an option? I mean, shouldn't that, that's hardly...
Frank Bisignano
I think we need to, I think we amended that message and by the way, we got that from an authority and we went back to the authority, right?
If you want to make that what this hearing is about, that's kind of fine. We could talk about that one line. We can also talk about the fact that your wait time's gone down 76%. We can also talk about the fact that field office visits are down 3%.
Speaker 57
Let me reclaim my time. I just wanted you to say that you were actually addressing the issue of not encouraging people to apply.
Speaker 60
Okay, good. Let me also move on to one of the most frequent complaints I have right now is that it's impossible to get any help from GSA for either the login.gov or the ID.me. And I think it's a fine thing to move everything to SSA, but right now my constituents are stuck dealing with these access issues on their own. And it often takes them once again a month to get the appointment to come in to get help so that they can go online, so they can do the modernization. So are there any plans to improve logins for my SSA from GSA and ID.me?
Speaker 60
Thank you. One last question. Mr. Smucker and I championed a bill that would redefine the claiming age categories. The simple terminology change, minimum benefit age, early eligibility age. I'm sure you know about it.
Do you anticipate these terminology changes over time will make the backlogs reduced? Will it be helpful for you if we pass this?
Frank Bisignano
I've never actually thought that they would change backlogs, but I mean, I'm supportive of what you want to do and I don't think those are the key, if that's your key driver to that, it's probably not the answer. We got to reduce backlogs. Always. That's all we ever do is reduce backlogs. And to the point where they're no longer backlogs, they're inventory.
Donald Beyer
Well, we very much appreciate reducing backlogs. And before I yield, I'd like to submit the Government Executive article for the record, please.
Ron Estes
Thank you. I'd like to thank Commissioner Bisignano for appearing before us today. Please be advised that members have two weeks to submit written questions to be addressed later in writing. Those questions and the answers will be made part of the formal hearing record.
Speaker 65
Mr. Chairman, could I, I neglected to submit for the record, could I just, I wanted to submit the Ways and Means Republican Social Security data and this article from Payment Dive.
Ron Estes
Without objection, so ordered. With that, subcommittee stands adjourned.
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