Memorializing our Veterans: Outreach, Upkeep, and Community Partnerships at Veterans Cemeteries
Legend
Transcript markers
- text Sentence being played
- text Search result
- text Intervention cited by the link you opened
Click a sentence to play the video from that moment. Select text to quote it with the speaker, timestamp and link.
More options
House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Disability Assistance and Memorial Affairs U.S. House of Representatives
Follow its sittingsSpeaker 4
The bills were circulated in advance pursuant to committee rules. I ask that the readings of the bills be dispensed with and the bills be open to amendment at any point. Without objection, so ordered. I recognize myself for a moment to say these bills would, these bills are not yet offset, but I look forward to working with my colleagues again. Does any member wish to speak on any of the bills included in the en bloc?
Andrew Garbarino
Mr. Chairman, I support the three bills in the en bloc. We have H.R. 8552, which is a common-sense bipartisan cost-of-living adjustment for our veterans and their families. H.R. 9006 works towards better systems and interagency cooperation to identify unclaimed remains and give these veterans proper honors. This is a step in the right direction to better serve those who served us. And last but not least, we have H.R. 6588, the PROVIDE Act, offered by our colleague Representative Jimmy Panetta.
This bill seeks to help veterans experiencing hardships after natural disasters by offering them some wiggle room with their disability claims so that they can receive faster financial assistance to rebuild their lives. We made a promise to give our veterans and survivors the best care we can, in life, in hardship, and death. I think that's what we are moving in that direction with today, and I yield back.
Speaker 3
Thank you, sir. Do any members wish to offer amendments to any of these bills? Mr. Self, you're recognized, sir.
Keith Self
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to reiterate the fact that every one of these that has a cost, our veterans alone, some set of our veterans alone will pay for it. 330 million Americans do not know that. They think that it is tax broadly tax-based. It is not.
Some set subset of our veterans will pay for every one of these bills, and I yield back.
Morgan Luttrell
Thank you, Mr. Self. Anyone else wish to speak on the en bloc package? Do any members have amendments? Hearing none, I recognize Ranking Member Garbarino for a motion.
Andrew Garbarino
Mr. Chairman, I move that en bloc number one, consisting of HR 8552, HR 9006, and HR 6588, be forwarded favorably to the full committee.
Morgan Luttrell
There is a motion to favorably forward the bills included in the en bloc to the full committee. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the bills HR 8552, HR 9006, and HR 6588 are favorably forward to the full committee.
I ask unanimous consent that the committee staff be authorized to make technical, clerical, and conforming changes to the bills favorably forward today. Hearing no objection, so ordered. And I thank the members for their attendance today, and the subcommittee markup is adjourned. Subcommittee will come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time.
And to thank our witnesses for being here today. We are taking a closer look at how our nation's veteran cemeteries are administered, both within the United States and around the world. There are currently 157 VA-administered national cemeteries across 44 states and the territory of Puerto Rico. Veteran service member spouses and dependents may be eligible for burial in a VA national cemetery if that veteran or their veteran loved one was honorably discharged or died during service. VA also provides grant funds to states, territories, and native tribes to establish and expand veteran cemeteries or improve and maintain existing ones.
Since its creation, VA has awarded grants to over 124 veteran cemeteries. Last fiscal year, these cemeteries interred a total of 43,705 veterans and their family members. This is a shared responsibility VA holds with the Department of the Army, who administers Arlington National Cemetery, the final resting place for nearly 430,000 veterans and their family members. In fact, it was on the orders of Quartermaster General Montgomery Meigs that Arlington Estate was first approved for the use of a cemetery, and it was officially declared a national cemetery by Secretary of War Edwin Stanton on June 15th, 1864. Ironically, burial at Arlington was not always considered a hallowed honor that it is today.
Rather, Arlington was designated as a national cemetery to ensure service members whose families could not afford a proper burial for their loved one were laid to rest in a dignified place.
In fact, the Grand Army of the Republic chose May 30th to ensure the availability of flowers in the springtime for all of our fallen soldiers. And in 1868, the Commander-in-Chief John A. Logan issued his General Orders Number 11 that local posts should decorate the graves of those who had fallen in defense of our nation with flowers. Decoration Day would become known as Memorial Day. But it was not through proclamation alone that the tradition came to pass, but the hard work of the community organizers like the Women's Relief Corps and the Ladies Memorial Association. These organizations campaigned in local newspapers and did the work of bringing these celebrations to their own towns, cities, and counties.
And there is a lesson to be learned here, no doubt, that not just about the price of campaigning on the battlefield, but also the days that come after the campaigns to memorialize and remember our fallen. That kind of organization's engagement is a service that no amount of taxes can pay for and no amount of money can buy. And I want to thank the VSOs and the nonprofits that have come to join us in the audience and those that will be testifying before us today. Despite its name, the National Cemetery Administration is not just about cemeteries, it's about maintaining a memory of service, monuments to the fallen, and honoring a culture of sacrifice. While Memorial Day has already passed, I bring up the story of Memorial Day because it connects well to our nation's next national holiday that is rapidly approaching, of course, our 250th birthday on the 4th of July.
And this is especially important, it is also our Independence Day. Freedom and sacrifice are central to what we do, it dictates what it means to be an American and what keeps those two values front and center in memory and gratitude. That is what so much of the work done by this subcommittee is about, and gratitude in the face of sacrifice and our duty to those who have served. And the same commander, John A. Logan, also said about our nation's cemeteries that we should never let our cemeteries fall into vandalism or neglect or let others think that we have forgotten the cost of a free republic. That is a shared mission and that and one that the American Battle Monuments Commission or ABMC helps fill abroad.
Because the story of our nation's veterans is not just on American shores, but in the brave acts of our heroes abroad, ABMC maintains 26 American military cemeteries and 31 federal memorial monuments and markers across 17 countries. For 250 years, our service members have defended our freedom, values, and interests across the globe, from the Gettysburg battlefield to the Alamo gates and from the beaches of Normandy to the Coral Sea, the veterans' heroism knows no borders. And I want to thank our partners from NCA, ABMC, and the Department of the Army for joining us today. And I want to say a special thanks to my friend and my fellow veteran, the Honorable Sam Brown, Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs, who is testifying for the first time before us in the subcommittee today. Sir, welcome.
The NCA has an approval rating of 98% out of 100, outstanding job, sir, based on feedback from our veterans and the families who have received their services. With that, I will yield to the ranking member for his opening comments.
Andrew Garbarino
Thank you, Chairman Luttrell, and good afternoon, everyone. Appreciate y'all being here today in front of this committee. I think this is potentially the most bipartisan committee in all of Congress. We agree on the mission of serving the men and women who served us, especially those who have been injured because of their service or those who have paid the ultimate cost in serving our country and keeping us safe and keeping us free. I know at NCA, and given what the chairman just said of a 98% approval rating, you all feel that way and have a reputation of being one of the more nonpartisan agencies even within the VA, which is oftentimes a more nonpartisan place itself meant to take care of our veterans.
So today's hearing focuses on an extremely important topic: our veteran cemeteries. These are sacred places. They're hallowed grounds that honor service and sacrifice, the full story of American's veterans. And today I wish the hearing could just be about that. And I understand that some of the cemeteries and some of the things we will discuss today might not come under the exact jurisdiction of the NCA, but being that you are here and we're talking about cemeteries and the role that they play in preserving our veterans' legacy, their service, their sacrifice, I would be remiss if I did not bring up some of the politics that have seeped in to what's happening to our cemeteries and the memorial affairs of veterans.
Our military cemeteries and memorials have not been above this president's campaign to remove any and every acknowledgment of our country's diversity, or its sins and imperfections, from public life. So today I think we have to confront some of those truths: the removal of exhibits highlighting the service of Black Americans, the sidelining of women veterans, and the unnecessary politicization of what our veterans have done for all Americans. Service is service, and all of it deserves to be honored. So minority service members don't just serve minority citizens, nor do women service members serve only women; both serve all Americans. Women, in fact, their veterans are the fastest growing group of veterans.
They have earned their place, their honor, their recognition; excluding them from ceremonies and diminishing their contribution feeds a false narrative that somehow they didn't earn the same respect as their male counterparts. Black Americans have fought in every single war this country has ever been involved in, even when they didn't share the same rights as their white soldier counterparts. So service is service, but the administration's view that honoring one group of veterans somehow detracts from honoring another, I think it's misguided. I think it's harmful. If you visit one of our national cemeteries, you know that these are places of honor run by top-tier professionals who show true care and dedication for those interred there.
The same is true for our ABMC partners overseas; their commitment to upkeep, honor, and education is unmatched. I just don't want to soil any of the legacy of this committee, of your office within the VA, of our veterans and our cemeteries themselves with politics. These veterans have earned their burial benefits through service and sacrifice. And honestly, I don't want to see their legacies tarnished. George Pruitt's heroism in World War II wasn't any less commendable or any less of a story worth telling than a white soldier's actions in liberating Europe.
But it was only his story, only his story, a Black American who gave his life attempting to rescue a fellow soldier, that was removed from an ABMC exhibit. Removed in part because he talked about the discrimination he faced when he got home. That discrimination was real. Our Black veterans were not awarded the GI Bill; it was like winning the lottery. If they did get the GI Bill and they came home to my state of Kentucky, the University of Kentucky and University of Louisville were both segregated at that point, did not allow Black students.
In fact, it was 20 years after World War II that Black Americans in the South got the right to vote. It's not a part of our past we want to discuss, but it is part of our past and it is true. The history and segregation of Jim Crow that defined George's life and so many of his fellow Black service members is painful, but we cannot hide from those sins if we are not to repeat them. The Navajo code tracker story isn't any less worthy of telling simply because they are a minority population; they were critical to our success in winning World War II. So today I hope to hear some nuts and bolts government updates, things like getting projects paid for, daily operational needs, partnerships that are proving beneficial, but I also hope to hear that we are honoring all of our veterans regardless of their race or gender and that we are telling their stories, their stories that force us to reconcile the tragedies of our history with the better tomorrow towards which the American people have always strived.
Our nation is not now, nor has it ever been perfect. But we've always had as our North Star what we are getting ready to celebrate on Saturday, the idea that all people are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We hold those truths to be self-evident. Our military reflects the best of those values. It reflects the vast tapestry of Americans from all walks of life.
And we undercut our greatness by selectively editing which American stories are deemed the right version of the American dream. So thank you all for being here. I look forward to today's hearing. And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Morgan Luttrell
Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. And thank the witnesses for being, witnesses, I'm sorry, thank you all for being here today. We have the Honorable Sam Brown, Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs, National Cemetery Administration, its Benefits Administration. Mr. Brown, thank you. Mr. Robert Dalessandro.
Nailed it. That's it. I practiced. Acting Secretary for the American Battle Monuments Commission. And Ms. Karen Durham-Aguilera.
Nailed it. All right. Executive Director of Arlington National Cemetery, Office of Cemetery, Office of Army Cemeteries. Ma'am, how long have you been doing this? Nine and a half years.
Nine and a half years. I got a funny story. We have met before, well before I showed up in this place, and I'll tell you that after class. I ask the witnesses please rise and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Thank you, and let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Under Secretary Brown, you're now recognized for five minutes, sir, to present the testimony from the department.
Sam Brown
Thank you, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the National Cemetery Administration. The National Cemetery Administration carries one of the federal government's most sacred responsibilities, honoring veterans and their families with final resting places that reflect the dignity of their service and sacrifice. Today, nearly 5.3 million Americans, including more than 4 million veterans, are memorialized in VA national cemeteries. Every gravesite, every headstone, and every interaction with a family represents a promise fulfilled on behalf of a grateful nation.
That promise is experienced by families during some of the most difficult moments of their lives and is measured by the care, compassion, and professionalism they receive. That promise is sustained every day by the men and women of NCA. Our workforce, 62% of whom are veterans themselves, continues to deliver extraordinary service under increasing operational demands. Their dedication reflects a principle that has guided me since my service as a young infantry officer in the 1st Infantry Division, US Army. No mission too difficult, no sacrifice too great, duty first.
That motto remains a North Star for my leadership. It reminds me that while our workforce will always answer the call, it is my responsibility to ensure that we have the people, the tools, training, and support necessary to succeed.
Fulfilling NCA's mission requires not only commitment from our employees, but stewardship from our leaders. However, today, the challenge before us is not one of commitment. The challenge is ensuring that this sacred mission has the people, support, and operational resilience necessary to endure for generations to come. America's promise to veterans depends upon the strength of the workforce entrusted to carry it forward. I have said before that America does not forget her heroes.
Those words carry a responsibility. They require us to ensure that every eligible veteran receives a dignified burial. Every family is treated with compassion and respect, and every national cemetery remains a wort- remains worthy of those we are entrusted to honor. Fulfilling that promise requires action. That is why NCA is strengthening outreach, expanding pre-need eligibility determinations, improving digital tools, and working closely with veteran service organizations, states, and tribal partners, and community stakeholders.
Our goal is not simply eligibility. It is awareness, understanding, and access. To achieve that goal, we are modernizing operations, improving systems, and empowering leaders throughout the organization to make informed decisions closer to the point of service. These efforts are designed to remove barriers, support the field, and keep our focus where it belongs: serving veterans and their families. But maintaining these national shrines requires rigorous standards, thoughtful stewardship, accountability, and continued investment in our workforce.
As we look to the future, we must remain focused on ensuring NCA has the people, partnerships, and capabilities necessary to sustain this mission for generations to come. America's promise to veterans does not end when a veteran- uh, when a veteran and that headstone is set in place. In many respects, it is that moment that our responsibility as a nation becomes most visible. Why? Because within these sacred places, the legacy of the fallen continues to guide the living.
Our national cemeteries are more than burial grounds. They are places where America remembers, learns, and renews its understanding of service, sacrifice, and shared responsibility. They remind us that freedom has never been free, and every generation inherits an obligation to those who came before. In preserving these sacred places, we do more than honor the past. We help shape the character and future of our republic.
We remain committed to honoring every veteran with dignity, serving every family with compassion, and preserving the sacred trust for generations to come. Thank you for your continued support and oversight. I look forward to your questions.
Speaker 10
The written statement of Under Secretary Brown will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. D'Alessandro, you are now recognized for five minutes to present the testimony of the American Battle Monuments Commission.
Robert Dalessandro
Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and other members of the subcommittee, thank you for having us here today. Our sacred work of memorializing our nation's service members and veterans in cemeteries around the world is our singular mission. It's to honor the service, achievements, and sacrifices of members buried or commemorated at our sites. ABMC operates 26 US cemeteries overseas and 31 federal memorials, monuments, and markers in 17 countries, each a permanent expression of the nation's gratitude. Our mission differs in an important way from other federal entities responsible for military veteran cemeteries.
With the exception of three memorials in the United States, all our sites are overseas, and unlike the national cemeteries, nearly all of ABMC's cemeteries only honor the war dead, or closed to new burials, allowing our focus to remain the perpetual preservation of historic sites and the stories they represent.
As you know, ABMC cemeteries and memorials are among the most beautiful and meticulously maintained commemorative sites in the world. They're completed works of civic art, intentionally designed to honor sacrifice and inspire reflection. Our locations welcome millions of visitors each year. And in addition to maintaining these places to the highest standards, we're entrusted with ensuring that the service and sacrifice of those we honor continues to be understood and remembered for generations. For many families, the distance created by overseas burial makes it difficult to regularly visit and tend the graves of their loved ones.
So in May, we launched a new flower program. Now families and supporters can order flower arrangements for placement at any of our cemeteries and three US memorials. At our cemeteries, more than 7,500 headstones mark the graves of unknown Americans. We work closely with DPAA and support 175 disinterments annually. This month, we completed four disinterments of unknown remains at Florence American Cemetery, bringing the agency's total to nearly 800 throughout its history.
This is a reminder of our commitment, our nation's commitment, to bringing everyone back. With a similar interest to accurate historical remembrance, ABMC partners with Operation Benjamin, an organization dedicated to identifying and correcting cases of Jewish service members that were incorrectly buried between Latin crosses rather than Stars of David. Only two ABMC cemeteries remain open to new burials: Corozal American Cemetery in Panama and Clark Veterans Cemetery in the Philippines. To ensure that Corozal remains capable of serving future generations, ABMC has developed a comprehensive long-range plan focused on preservation, infrastructure improvements, burial operations, and future capacity. At Clark Veterans Cemetery, which had suffered significant damage, it came under ABMC's management in 2013.
The transformation that followed stands as one of the most remarkable restoration achievements in ABMC's history. ABMC also recognizes an equally important responsibility: to ensure the stories of those we commemorate continue to be understood and remembered for generations. We partnered with VA to further expand the Veterans Legacy Memorial, adding 200,000 memorial pages of fallen service members to our sites. We've enhanced our online databases, on-site touchscreen kiosks, giving visitors better access to explore these burial records. ABMC offers lesson plans, educational briefings, interactive digital maps, and other classroom resources to bring the stories of America's overseas military service into schools and communities in the United States.
And through partnerships with organizations like the Smithsonian American Art Museum, National Park Service, National World War I and World War II Museums, we encourage reflections about services. Additionally, we operate 10 visitor centers. These are equipped with a professional team of interpretive guides, not just to convey historical facts, but encourage reflection. Ultimately, ABMC's educational and interpretive work reflects a simple but enduring principle: remembrance requires more than preservation alone. Mr. Chairman, in closing, I want to thank you and the subcommittee for your continued interest in the care of our sites, where so many of our nation's fallen sons and daughters are buried and memorialized.
Our charge remains timeless: the time will not dim the glory of their deeds. This concludes my statement.
I would be pleased to answer any questions the subcommittee has.
Morgan Luttrell
Thank you for the written statement. Mr. D'Alessandro will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. Aguilera, you are now recognized for five minutes to present the testimony of the Department of the Army.
Karen Durham-Aguilera
Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss efforts by the Office of Army Cemeteries, or OAC, and Army National Military Cemeteries, or ANMC, to memorialize our veterans. On behalf of our dedicated military and civilian professional workforce in the Department of the Army, we appreciate the support provided by Congress over these many years. The Office of Army Cemeteries' mission is to provide oversight and expertise for all Army cemeteries through policy, program management, inspections, training, and assistance, honoring those who lay to rest in perpetuity on Army-owned property. OAC provides management oversight for 11 Department of War cemeteries and 32 Army cemeteries and the two Army National Military Cemeteries, which are Arlington National Cemetery and the US Soldiers' and Airmen's Home National Cemetery, where our team serves the American people by laying to rest those who have served our nation with dignity and honor.
Simultaneously, we provide a living history that educates and inspires millions of visitors each year. As a living memorial, we are reminded daily of the sacrifices of those few who have answered our nation's call. Demand for burial at ANC remains at a pace of 24 to 27 funeral services each weekday. During fiscal year 2025, we interred over 5,200 service members, veterans, and eligible family members with over 6,200 requests for burial. Demand for interment at Arlington National Cemetery remains high, but space is finite.
In 2018, we opened the Millennium expansion. To date, we have used approximately 30% of that available burial space. We're excited about our ongoing Southern expansion. This project consists of three overlapping phases scheduled to be complete in 2029 and will add over 80,000 new burial opportunities. But this expansion alone will not keep ANC open to new interments beyond the early 2060s.
Without a change in eligibility, Arlington National Cemetery will close to new burials within 40 years, sooner should a major conflict result in a change of demand. However, as our partners at the NCA tells us, Arlington is only one of many final resting places for our nation's veterans and their families. In addition to cemetery oversight, OAC leads an initiative known as Rights of the Fallen. Through outreach, education, and engagement with federal and state entities, we work to prevent the unnecessary, deliberate disinterment of the remains of service members from the 18th and 19th century conflicts within the United States. Efforts ensure that inadvertently disinterred service members' remains are treated with respect and rapidly reinterred in an appropriate site that can guarantee both accountability and perpetual care.
This effort is being even more poignant as we embark on our nation's 250th birthday. Every year at Arlington National Cemetery, we honor those that have made the ultimate sacrifice during the National Memorial Day observance. This year, we hosted several events open to the public. Visitors had the opportunity to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and to attend the extended Memorial Day observance, connecting them with the tradition of military sacrifice. Looking ahead, both OAC and ANMC remain engaged with our veteran population as well as our partners at the NCA, the ABMC, and many others.
Our teams collaborate with the NCA on many fronts, most recently as we pursue a shared automated burial system of record.
The Department of Army Enterprise Interment Services System assures 100% accountability from eligibility to perpetual commemoration. Its web service technology, geospatial mapping, and imagery management components, which allow modern management of all functions of cemetery operations. We look forward to working with Congress, our partners at the VA and ABMC, our military service and veteran service organizations, and the American people to sustain Army cemeteries, honoring our nation's heroes for generations to come while simultaneously providing education, outreach, oversight, and guidance wherever we can. Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, distinguished members of the subcommittee, this concludes my statement. I look forward to responding to any questions you may have.
Thank you.
Morgan Luttrell
The written statement of Ms. Durham-Aguilar will be entered into the hearing record. Ms. Durham, I'm going to start with my questions, my questions are going to come your way. I'd like to chat about the caisson platoons. First of all, I'd like to know how that's going from where we were last time we were together. I'd like to know what the build-out looks like for where we're keeping the ponies.
Have we, have we increased our caisson count? Are we manned up properly? Just if you wouldn't mind giving me a kind of a, it doesn't have to go completely deep, but let's give a kind of a deeper level brief. But I will add this before we get into this, just talk to us. I'm going to ask you a series of questions.
I just begging you don't, one thing that we do not tolerate in this committee is political talk. I'm just going to forewarn you before he gets a hold of everybody, okay? That's just something that he and I adamantly agree on. So if you can just, if you don't have an answer to my question, just say I don't have the answer to that question. You don't have to run down a road that I'll then get lost on me, but please.
Karen Durham-Aguilera
Thank you, Chairman, good thing I'm not a political appointee. So regarding the caisson update, as you recall last year we were able to restart the caisson supported conveyance in June. We met several times as we were getting ready for that, particularly at the new stables. Since then, we've been supporting two caisson supported services a day, each weekday, for those that are eligible for honors with escort.
Two caisson supported services a day.
Morgan Luttrell
Do we have three fully functional caisson platoons? Because if I remember correctly, we couldn't start the caisson burials until we had three full working caisson platoons. Is that correct?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
Well, it is, but it actually right now there's four that are even that are training and getting ready to be able to provide four caisson supported services a day later this fall.
Morgan Luttrell
Will the amount of interments increase once that fourth platoon is activated?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
It will not, because we provide a variety of services at Arlington, everything from the military honors with escort, that's the marching element, the band, the cannon of those eligible for it, rifle volley, caisson as a conveyance. So whether someone has a caisson or not, we still provide the same number of services. We also have dependent honors and then we have the regular full military honors. That pace, that demand is unrelenting and it's not dependent on how many caissons are available to support.
Morgan Luttrell
I would, have we kind of backfilled that void on how many heads of horses that we have in the caisson platoon? Because if I remember our discussions last time, we were still trying to find the ponies globally. Have we found a proper breeder specifically for these caisson platoons?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
So I'll defer more specifics to MDW. But MDW tells us that they have four caisson platoons. In fact, we've even seen them training because they come in before we open. That they'll be ready to stand up to provide four caisson-supported services a day beginning this fall. Four a day.
Morgan Luttrell
Okay, that's where I was going with that. Four a day. Okay. As far as the horse barn and the paddocks and all the kind of prep area, they were refurbishing and building out. How are we looking there?
And that's off-site, correct?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
No, that's the one that's at Myer. Okay. There was a new caisson village that was at Myer that was built and stood up before we were able to restart it at Arlington. And it is great. It's with the sizes that the herd needs as well as other nutrition.
Is that where they're staying?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
That's where they're staying. Okay. There's so there's some that are staying there that that are at supporting Arlington. And then they have the others off-site of the arrangements they have with their equestrian center.
Morgan Luttrell
As far as the caisson, the men and women that are in the caisson platoon, I may be making this up, but I think they're not there's not a like a there's not like a caisson MOS.
There is now.
There is now. Okay, so we did do that.
Karen Durham-Aguilera
Brand new. Because the military has or the Army has military working equines. And so there is a new MOS that was created. In fact, on the Army birthday, I attended a a great ceremony in the Pentagon that officially recognized and stood up that caisson that equestrian MOS. Really exciting.
Andrew Garbarino
Outstanding. Great. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. McGarvey.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. Thank you, Under Secretary Brown, for being here. You know, I want to say that you're the only under secretary who's come and visited me in my office. That doesn't go unnoticed.
Very much appreciated. We appreciate the way you are are working with us on this. So I got a couple of questions to start off with you. And I will tell you, sometimes you go in front of a committee and they ask you questions to which they already know the answers. It's a great line in a Jason Isbell song.
He says your questions like directions to the truth. This is not what this is. These are actual questions that I don't know the answers to and we'd like to just get a little bit of information on. According to the most recent VA workforce dashboard, NCA lost 10% of its caretaker workforce in fiscal year '23. How is this impacting service?
Sam Brown
Um, fortunately, we've got an incredible workforce, as you mentioned earlier, ranking member, that we've got a 98 out of 100 score. Um, and and so I just major um appreciation for the team that will not let the mission fail. So in terms of the the services that veterans and their family members receive, um our team is is so committed to the mission. And in part because, again, we've got the highest percent veteran workforce population in all of all of federal government. Um, we've dropped just below 65%.
We're about 62% right now. But it's that kind of camaraderie, those, you know, the brothers and sisters in arms that are out there delivering those services to family members and veterans, you know, Monday through through Friday and, you know, working some overtime ahead of some of the big ceremonial weekends. So that's the good news. But there is some challenges that have come with that. And, um, you know, we've got many hours of overtime that are being worked for us to accomplish this mission.
Um, we've got a workforce that that has experienced, you know, some some stress and we're seeing some, you know, some of that manifest. But the VA is is responding and helping us get towards what we're calling a 30-day hiring program. And we're right in the in the beginning of that. There is there is a high demand for us to be able to kind of go fill those caretaker spots.
Andrew Garbarino
I mean, the people who who visit these cemeteries, they're the they're our cemeteries, right? And people care a lot about them and rightfully so. Um, you mentioned overtime, you mentioned you're about to hire. Has there been any maintenance that's been put off because of this? Have there are there any other needs that you are seeing, especially in front of this committee?
We want to take care of our veterans in the cemeteries. Is as a result of the the reduction in force that maybe you guys need or we could help with?
Sam Brown
You know, that's that's a very fair question. And and so the the nature of our work being outdoors and and working with the ground, um, there's always going to be maintenance issues that come up. I'll give you kind of a sort of a rule of thumb, a way to think about it. Whenever we place a headstone, for example, minding you the soil could be different from place to place across the country, but in general, that headstone is going to move out of what we consider compliance in terms of its, you know, its its height and its alignment about every eight to ten years. And so it needs to go back and be manually kind of either nudged or lifted, um, you know, somehow realigned into plumb with the rest of the headstones there.
Um, that is an ongoing issue that that is kind of accumulated over time as we've had to kind of go into, you know, some overtime money that takes, you know, we might have to reduce the amount of contract money that we're spending to go out and adjust and, you know, get contractors out there to make those adjustments. So there has been some implication. We've seen some of those standards that that don't get met, um, as well as, you know, just our facilities. Um, are are, you know, some of our facilities are getting old. And and when they have breakdowns, um, it's the mission will always get um will get funded and and the families will get the services they deserve and um but our facilities in some cases need need more attention and repair.
Andrew Garbarino
Thank you. And please keep in touch with us on that. You know, it worries me. Nobody up here likes waste, fraud, and abuse. It worries me when we hear we know the demands on our cemeteries, that we have a shrinking workforce potentially.
I'm glad to hear you're hiring, but relying on that in the years to come, I think it opens the door. You you talked about the stress on on the employees. I don't want to see an attrition or any our care fall by the wayside in these cemeteries. Appreciate you doing that. Um, just very quickly, Mr. D'Alessandro, I want to move to you.
Um, it seems our veteran cemeteries abroad are not immune to some of the politics I talked about in my opening statement. Case in point, the removal of markers honoring Black World War II veterans in the Netherlands. FOIA requests reveal their removal was tied to executive orders on DEI and ABMC said at the time that telling of segregation did not fall within the commemorative mission. Um, I just want to know, what is the status of those current markers? Um, and why is sharing the experience of Black service members not part of the mission?
Robert Dalessandro
Uh, Ranking Member McGarvey, I'm really glad that you asked me that question because I don't think all the reporting on that has been particularly fair. Um, the previous secretary did remove that panel, and I'm not blaming my predecessor. I'm being as honest with you as I absolutely can. Uh, that panel was forced into ABMC by a previous ambassador who basically demanded that it was put up. Um, it spoke about an individual who did not perish during the war.
His service was worth talking about in the right place. But my initial pushback on that panel was that it highlighted the wrong unit. It it had a unit that was at ABMC working at what would become an ABMC cemetery, but it had a unit that was there for two weeks versus a unit that was there for two years, the unit that was also African American working there. I had said, uh, in reply to some of this, that we have 10,000 people buried at our cemetery in the Netherlands.
We have very little exhibit space. Of those, 174 of them are African Americans. You can pick any one of those people and we would be delighted to tell that story. I'd love to tell that story. But we picked a guy who survived the war and talked about civil rights.
In a limited exhibit area, it was the staff's opinion that that was just the wrong thing to do. Now let me bring you up to date. Since then we have reinstalled a panel that talks about African Americans in the Netherlands, which we are quite proud of, which our historians put together. The old panel, the language was quite frankly forced upon us. We have nine new panels of which a full half of them talk about African Americans at the cemetery and 15 in place already that will rotate.
All of these talk about diversity. So I would argue that what happened here was almost the reverse. And I think that ABMC really operated above board on this. So that's where I stand.
Andrew Garbarino
No, thank you. I appreciate that explanation. And I'm out of time, but would love to talk with you about the panels that are up and see those and appreciate your explanation. Thank you. Yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Jack Bergman
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Great to see all of you again here, especially Under Secretary Brown. We just appreciate all of your all service, service. I want to spend a few minutes on the National Cemetery Administration's siting criteria for new cemeteries. NCA Directive 3001 sets a strategic goal of giving 95% of veterans reasonable access to a burial option within 75 miles of an open national cemetery or VA-funded state cemetery.
75-mile radius assumes something close to a straight line or a normal road grid. In the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where I live, that radius drawn from let's say Holly to or Augusta doesn't even come close to clearing the Mackinac Bridge. But could you tell us whether that 75-mile threshold is measured as straight-line distance or actual drive time and road distance?
Sam Brown
Congressman, to be as straight shooting as we can at this committee, I commend it for doing that. It is a straight-line measure. So it is a radius around a point. But I think that what your question is getting to is a fair question. And I just want to say that this objective helped provide the direction that has allowed us to achieve nearly a 95% access within 75 miles.
Jack Bergman
Well, let me, I appreciate, I'm not going to cut you off, but you're right on. The point is bell curve, at best 84%. So if you got 90%, you're better than the bell curve. And there are, it's just natural to have exceptions. So you've got it 90% right.
So it's in that case, you know, if it is a, if you will, a straight line, is it, we can pretty much agree that the real burden on veterans in a place like the Upper Peninsula where there's no direct route, there's no metric to measure, it kind of puts them at risk. Does the NCA's methodology have any flexibility to account for geography like this, or is that 75-mile standard applied all the time regardless of terrain?
Sam Brown
Congressman, our current methodology does not provide flexibility. But I think what you're getting at illustrates that there's an opportunity for us to serve better. And as we've approached that 95% threshold, it's something that we are internally looking at, are there ways that we can modify our objective, as a potential example. VHA measures appointment time based off drive time as opposed to miles. It's something that we're looking at those sort of measures as well, also acknowledging that in some very urban environments, 75 miles might take you three hours to drive versus a rural environment where it might be just over an hour.
Jack Bergman
And you know, on another metric, I understand NCA also applies a veteran population threshold for new construction. So if a region falls under that threshold but is isolated enough that no existing cemetery is realistically reachable, is there any flexibility to weigh that isolation alongside population?
Sam Brown
Congressman, in our current order, the flexibility would have come in what we call the rural initiative, of which we're about to complete our seventh one in Elko, Nevada. The rule there allows us to consider much smaller veteran population for these rural initiatives if there's not already a national cemetery in the state.
Jack Bergman
So you just answered my next question, because if a region falls under that threshold but is isolated enough that no existing cemetery is realistically reachable, is there flexibility? What I think I just heard you say was yes. Is that correct?
Sam Brown
Well, it's there's no flexibility under our current rule because for Michigan, to be specific, there's already a national cemetery in Michigan. So the flexibility that applied in another state like my home state of Nevada, there was no national cemeteries at all, so we were able to look at a rural area with a very small veteran population, relatively speaking, and say we could put a rural national cemetery there. That unfortunately would not apply to Michigan.
Jack Bergman
Okay, well what I'm looking for is there a way, just Michigan being an example, I'm sure there are other examples that we want to make sure that all of our veterans and their families are appropriately served. Would you be willing to have NCA take a look at whether drive time or isolation factors could supplement the current distance and population thresholds using, again, in my case, the Upper Peninsula as a case study?
Sam Brown
Congressman, I commit to you that we will certainly look at that. It is our objective to make national cemeteries or a veteran cemetery through our state partners, tribal, or territorial as accessible as possible, but it's also limited to appropriations and we have to be the best steward we can of that. But I would say that you're not completely unique. We have, you know, US territories that also could benefit from a national cemetery that we just we have to be able to have the appropriations to meet the policy to be able to do that.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Speaker 20
Thank you, Chairman Luttrell and Ranking Member McGarvey. I really appreciate your leadership and your shared partnership in holding this important hearing and ensuring all of our veterans are properly honored. And thank you to our witnesses. Under Secretary Brown, it's good to see you again. I'm going to start by honoring a veteran from my district, Major General Jeanne Holm, a pioneering military leader and advocate for women in the armed services.
She joined the military in 1942, earned her officer commission in 1943, and later transferred to the Air Force, serving in key roles during and after World War II.
As director of women in the Air Force, she expanded opportunities for women, modernized policies, and played a central role in opening more military careers to them. She broke historical barriers when she became the first woman in the United States Air Force to be promoted to brigadier general in 1971, and later the first woman in the US Armed Forces to reach the rank of major general. She retired in 1975 after a distinguished career. After retiring, she continued advocating for women's equality in government and authored influential works on women in the military. So I'm going to ask each of you just a quick yes or no question.
Major General Jeanne Holm embodies exactly the kind of service the VA, Arlington National Cemetery, and Army National Military Cemeteries are charged with honoring every day. Would you agree? We'll start with Secretary or Under Secretary.
And Ms. Durham-Aguilera?
And Mr. Dalessandro?
Speaker 19
Great. And that is precisely why I was planning to honor her, Major General Holm, at the 28th annual bipartisan Women's Caucus wreath laying at Arlington National Cemetery earlier this month. Ms. Durham-Aguilera, can you help me understand why that event was canceled this year following notification that the Navy, Air Force, and Space Force would not attend?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
Thank you, Rep. Dexter. So other than being the place, Arlington National Cemetery, that provides the venue, the only information I have as to why it was canceled is what I read in the media.
Speaker 18
Okay. The stated reason was compliance with anti-DEI executive orders and Department of Defense guidance. A nearly three-decade-long bipartisan event honoring fallen service women was canceled for political reasons. And I find this entirely unacceptable. Ms. Durham-Aguilera, what is the Army's policy when it comes to specifically honoring women and minorities at Arlington National Cemetery?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
Well, thank you, Rep. Dexter. We honor everyone through service. For example, you can go into our education curriculum, our website, or see Explorer, you can look at World War I and you can find Tuskegee Airmen, I mean, sorry, World War II you can find Tuskegee Airmen. You look at World War I, you can find Harlem Hellfighters. If you look at statesmen, you can find Colin Powell, who made such a mark on me when I was a young engineer.
So everyone that we describe there, we tell their stories through their service.
Speaker 21
I appreciate that. And I understand that you are not a political appointee and you can't control all of this. But I just appeal to my colleagues that it is egregious that a bipartisan 28-year annual event is canceled for political reasons. And it disallows our ability to honor our veterans. And that is exactly what I hope we're going to continue advocating for here in a fair and bipartisan manner.
And with that, I yield back.
Keith Self
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Secretary, good to see you again. I'm going to, in the interest of time, I was going to ask you about your expanded outreach, what measurable, what measures do you use to indicate outputs? Because everyone in the government likes to talk about their inputs. And I often ask about outputs.
So what measurable criteria do you have to show us? And if you'd like to answer that in writing, I would appreciate it. But in the interest of time, I'm going to move to your two colleagues. Mr. Dalessandro, ABMC is maintaining our overseas military cemeteries for over a century. What do you consider the greatest threat in the next 10 to 20 years, given the changes in Europe that we are seeing in the governments?
What do you consider the greatest threat to our overseas cemeteries?
Robert Dalessandro
Thank you for that question. I believe our greatest threat isn't from overseas countries.
We have great relations with our partners overseas and the country team in each of the countries we operate in. I actually think our greatest threat is two different things. I think one of them is the aging workforce. So we have a workforce that is quite mature. We have a problem hiring younger people.
And when I'm talking about that, I'm talking largely overseas employees, not government civilians. A large majority of ABMC is our overseas local hires.
Okay, take another 30 seconds, please.
Robert Dalessandro
Oh, God. We've just got to maintain the workforce, keep their interest. Many of these people are multi-generational, so we're losing that because a lot of people don't like these working outside labor-intensive jobs.
Keith Self
Okay, very good. And I will point out we have a history lesson here because when de Gaulle ordered the NATO forces out of France, I believe it was John Foster Dulles that asked him if he included the American cemeteries like the one over the D-Day beaches. So I would just ask you to watch the movement in Europe. Ms. Durham-Aguilera, you've testified that you're going to be the southern expansion has got us till 2060 or so. Congress has told you through the 2019 NDAA to be effective for the 150 years.
How are the plans for that and what does that look like? Do you have an update for us?
Karen Durham-Aguilera
So thank you, Rep. Self. So in that 2019 NDAA, we did do draft rulemaking, put that out for public comment. And then after we were going through and adjudicating the comments, previous administration decided not to move forward with it. So with this administration, we are re-looking at it again. And I can't give you a timeline as to when if that's going to happen.
Keith Self
Okay, I would suggest that you do that because 2060 is right around the corner for getting something in place to be effective for the next 150 years. That is like tomorrow. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Morgan Luttrell
Thank you, Mr. Self. I would personally like to thank the three of you for doing amazing work at your departments. Really happy to hear about the Caisson Platoon. That one was a heavy rucksack to carry around when I first took this chairmanship. Thank you for being forthright and answering our questions.
I got to tell you, it makes this committee very happy when we can engage with you all that are testifying in front of us. Mr. McGarvey, do you have anything for closing?
Morgan Luttrell
Is everyone ready? Mr. Lyle, I gotta tell you, twice in less than a week, why don't you just run for Congress? You can hang out here all you want. You're just either a glutton for punishment or just full of information. Well, I'll start with you, Mr. Lyle.
So, National Director of Legislative Affairs of the American Legion, thank you again. It's good to see you again. Ms. Ryan Manion, Chief Operations Officer for the Travis Manion Foundation, thank you for coming to our committee today. And Mr. Shane LaGrone, Director of State Veteran Cemeteries of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs. Sir, thank you.
I ask the witnesses please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
I do.
I do.
We good, Mr. LaGrone?
Yes, sir.
Morgan Luttrell
Outstanding. Thank you, and let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Mr. Lyle, you're now recognized for five minutes.
Cole Lyle
Well, thank you, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member Mr. Garvey, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. On behalf of National Commander Dan K. Wiley and more than 1.5 million dues-paying members of the American Legion, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Paraphrasing President Garfield, we do not know all the promises they made, all the pledges they gave, or the words they spoke, but we do know they summed up and perfected by one supreme act the highest virtues of American citizens. The American Legion has long been a champion of keeping our national cemeteries, monuments, and memorials the foremost global example of how a country should honor service members after death. And we believe that all organizations and units within the National Cemetery Administration, the American Battle Monuments Commission, and the Department of the Army are, by most measures, doing excellent work.
NCA earned a satisfaction score in 2025, which was the highest ever recorded. ABMC meticulously maintains cemeteries and memorials across 17 countries, and Arlington continues to set the standard for dignified military honors. But that does not mean there is no room for improvement. Our resolutions call for expanding cemetery capacity where needed, bolstering outreach efforts, and deepening volunteer involvement so every veteran has the choice to exercise their right for burial and honors at the location they choose, in a manner befitting the honor they deserve. Last year, our National Executive Committee passed a resolution encouraging Legionnaires, our auxiliary, and the Sons of the American Legion to volunteer at VA cemeteries through VA Voluntary Services and to partner with other organizations, including Grave Adoption.
Our members are already active in flag placements, graveside services, Memorial Day observances, and the Veterans Legacy Program. But memorialization does not begin or end at the cemetery gate.
It is the final chapter of a veteran's service and the first chapter of their legacy. The greatest challenges occur during the transitions: before death, during end-of-life care, and long after burial. Families navigating serious illnesses are often focused on medical appointments, caregiving, and difficult conversations about prognosis. Questions about burial eligibility, military honors, survivor benefits, and memorial preferences frequently receive less attention until it's too late. VA has a valuable pamphlet, "Planning Your Legacy: VA Survivors and Burial Benefits," but anecdotally, legionnaires report it is rarely offered in VAMCs.
Even when it is, it does not fully address the practical steps families need before a crisis moment to establish a true continuum of planning. When death occurs, survivors are suddenly coordinating with funeral directors, cemeteries, military honors teams, and multiple VA offices, often without clear guidance on benefits or documentation. After the funeral, the burden shifts again to dependency and indemnity compensation, CHAMPVA, survivors' pension, probate, and grief support. Too many families experience this as a series of disconnected handoffs rather than one coordinated journey. We urge VA to expand and integrate advanced memorialization planning into routine VA interactions, including broader distribution of pre-need eligibility tools and resources in VAMCs.
We urge them to strengthen coordination between VHA, VBA, and NCA so veterans and families receive seamless support during the critical transition from end-of-life care to memorialization, and continue their strong partnerships with veteran service organizations, funeral directors, state, tribal cemeteries, and volunteers who often serve as the first line of help for grieving families. We urge this subcommittee to ensure survivors receive consistent, comprehensive assistance after burial, including full implementation and expanded future capability of the Survivor Assistance and Memorial Support program within VHA. Mr. Chairman, the men and women in Arlington and in cemeteries the world over gave their time on earth and the time they'll never spend with those they left behind in the hope that we would, as the Constitution says, form a more perfect union. We honor their sacrifices by ensuring the trust in our institutions remains strong, and nowhere in the federal government is that trust more important to keep than with the families of those we've lost. I thank you again for the opportunity to testify, and I welcome any questions you have.
Morgan Luttrell
The written statement of Mr. Lau will be entered into the hearing record. Ms. Manion, you are now recognized for five minutes.
Ryan Manion
Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the Travis Manion Foundation, where we empower veterans and families of the fallen to lead by mentoring youth and serving in their communities. My name is Ryan Manion, I am the CEO of the Travis Manion Foundation and sister of Marine Corps First Lieutenant Travis Manion, who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq in 2007. Today I am honored to speak about the importance of memorializing our fallen heroes and the role that community partnerships play in ensuring that their legacies endure. My brother Travis is buried in Section 60 at Arlington National Cemetery. I visit him often.
Every time I step onto those hallowed grounds, I am struck by the thousands of headstones that represent the very best our country has to offer. National cemeteries like Arlington are where our nation's promise to honor and remember those who served is made permanent. But we need to make sure that they are not only places of remembrance, that they are classrooms where future generations can learn the meaning of service, sacrifice, and citizenship.
At TMF, our vision is simple but powerful: to create a community where veterans show up as civic assets and are provided opportunities to continue to serve. This past Memorial Day, working in partnership with the National Cemetery Administration and Arlington National Cemetery, the Travis Manion Foundation empowered more than 2,500 volunteers to visit 78 veteran cemeteries nationwide. These volunteers placed commemorative tokens at the gravesites of 10,000 fallen service members through what we call the Honor Project. The impact of that effort extends beyond the families who know their loved ones are being remembered. Volunteers leave with a deeper understanding of the sacrifices made on their behalf.
They learn the stories behind the headstones. They begin to understand that these are not simply markers, but lives of purpose, courage, and service. These lessons are more important now than ever. In previous generations, military service was woven into everyday American life. Today, less than 1% of Americans serve in uniform.
As that divide grows, we must be intentional about creating opportunities for Americans, especially young people, to connect with those who served and those who gave their lives in service to our nation. The greatest tribute we can pay those who served is not simply to remember them, but it's to live lives worthy of their sacrifice. That is why community partnerships matter. Organizations like the Travis Manion Foundation help transform national cemeteries from places people visit once a year into places where stories are shared, lessons are learned, and legacies continue to inspire action. Before Travis deployed to Iraq for the second and final time, he was asked why he had to go back.
His response was five simple words: "If not me, then who?" Those words do not end with my brother. They live on in every American who chooses service over self. That is ultimately what our national cemeteries make possible. They do more than preserve our history; they shape our future.
Every headstone marks a life that still has something to teach us. Through strong community partnerships, we can ensure those lessons are never forgotten and that the service of those we have lost continues to inspire generations of Americans yet to come. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to any questions you may have.
Morgan Luttrell
The written statement of Ms. Manion will be entered into the hearing record, and I yield to the ranking member.
Andrew Garbarino
Thank you for yielding, Chair Luttrell. I have the honor of introducing a great Kentuckian, Mr. Shane LaGrone, the director of the Veterans Cemeteries Division of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs. Chief LaGrone is a 30-year veteran of the United States Air Force and the Kentucky Air National Guard, where he was an explosive ordnance disposal technician. After his military service, Chief LaGrone continued to serve by joining the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs. I'm proud to have people like you serving our great state, sir.
Mr. Chairman, it is my pleasure to introduce to you and the committee the director of the Veterans Cemeteries Division of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Shane LaGrone. I yield back.
Thank you, sir. Mr. LaGrone, you're recognized for five minutes.
Shane LaGrone
Yes, sir. Thank you, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member Carvey, and the honorable members of the subcommittee for inviting me to witness today's hearing. It is an honor to be here. I look forward to sharing my perspective on these important issues and answering any questions you may have. Like it was said, I am the cemetery director for our state veteran cemeteries, and last year I was promoted to the director of that position.
This year, as the director of the Cemetery Division, I oversee our five state veteran cemeteries, including their budgets and procedures. I'm responsible for the cemetery programs that work with the National Cemetery Administration for compliance and with the Veterans Cemetery Grants Program for cemeteries expansions.
Our other four cemeteries opened in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2018, and as of June 1st of this year, there are 24,592 veterans and dependents interred in our state veteran cemeteries. The Veteran Cemetery Grant Program is an excellent example of the outstanding federal and state partnership that is benefiting Kentucky state veteran cemeteries. Our cemeteries have received 12 federal grants since 2002, totaling $43.8 million. Each of the five state cemeteries received grant funding for initial construction, and in just the past four years, Kentucky has three expansion grants for approximately $3 million to build new columbarium walls for cremations and pre-placed outer burial containers for casket interments at our two oldest and busiest cemeteries. Commonwealth of Kentucky also has a great relationship with NCA.
We follow their guidelines, rules, regulations because it requires all veteran cemeteries meet the same high standards, which is what our veterans deserve. This year, the NCA supported the tribal and veteran cemeteries in holding an in-person and virtual meeting organized by the National Association of State Directors for Veterans Affairs to discuss common issues and help find resolutions to common problems. This has allowed us to collaborate with the NCA on more focused topics, and the NCA has already addressed several of our issues in the first year. On January 1st this year, Kentucky successfully implemented the Burial Equity for Guard and Reserve Act. Over the first five months, we've interred 10 guard and reserve veterans and one dependent.
Thanks to the increased collaboration with NCA as facilitated between the state and tribal veteran cemeteries, we were able to consult with our state and tribal counterparts who had already implemented this program. This helped us eliminate problems before they even arose. We were able to find headstone vendors, use shared eligibility criteria, establish standard operating procedures in a timely manner and with great confidence. While I believe the NCA and the Veteran Cemetery Grant Program are working well and serve as a valued partnership for state and tribal veteran cemeteries, I have some recommendations regarding the grant program. There are 125 grant-funded state and tribal veteran cemeteries across the country.
Funding to help expand and extend the life of these cemeteries is urgently needed. Over the past 10 years, our cremation interments at Kentucky state veteran cemeteries have increased from 30% to over 40% of our interments, which cause our columbarium walls to fill up faster than we planned. As the cemeteries expand, we need more infrastructure to ensure that we can maintain the national shrine standard. Until recently, federal appropriations have limited this type of expansion as more expansion projects result in higher infrastructure costs for cemeteries. For example, our next grant request for Kentucky Veteran Cemetery Central in Hardin County, Kentucky, will include increased infrastructure expansion costs for the first time due to roads needing to be built and the land needing to be cleared.
Congress' recent increase of annual funding for the grant program from $50 million to $150 million have been very, very encouraging. I recommend that Congress maintain this funding in the upcoming FY27 appropriations. This increased funding is essential to allow for more infrastructure expansion projects and to address the backlog of requests that many state and tribal veteran cemeteries have, allowing us to advance vital projects that honor our veterans. I would like to note that while state and tribal veteran cemeteries are very thankful for Congress' increase in the grant program funding, it has taken time for cemeteries to adjust to this increased funding to ensure they are able to spend it within the required timeframe. In some cases, this adjustment period may give the impression that $150 million for the grant program is too high or the state and tribal cemeteries don't need this funding.
I can assure you that is not the case. Getting this initial funding through the state takes time, even though we know it will be reimbursed through the VCGP. In fact, the increase in funding this year surprised many state and tribal cemeteries. Engineers and contractors need time to submit estimates. The build phase and the projects take time to plan.
Several states have made and will make the push to complete this year's projects and will be more prepared to receive this funding in the upcoming year.
Speaker 24
And we want to thank the members of the subcommittee for your important work on these issues for your committee to honor the veterans. I give a special thank you to Chairman Luttrell and Ranking Member McGarvey for inviting me to participate in this hearing. Thank you for recognizing the importance and supporting the veterans and advocating for the memorials and cemeteries that are here in their honor. Without your support and dedication, we would not be able to honor the veterans the way they deserve. Thank you for allowing me the honor to serve as a witness in this hearing.
I look forward to answering any of your questions.
Morgan Luttrell
The written statement of Mr. Legrone will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. McGarvey, you're recognized for five minutes, sir.
Andrew Garbarino
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Legrone, we're going to go right back to you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your continued service. I want to talk to you about an issue that we discussed on this subcommittee last week.
Is VA's service radius of 75 miles for interments at either national or a state cemetery reasonable?
Shane LaGrone
Great question, sir. Although 75-mile radius is a great standard to set, we still take into account the terrain of the state along with the population density. For example, Kentucky is consisted of rugged terrain on the east, sweeping plains on the west. KDVA five cemeteries designed based on the state's terrain to cover the 250 miles and four-hour drives across the state. Syncing with the other six national cemeteries, we believe that would provide effective coverage.
Bottom line, establishing a 75-mile is a good national baseline, but the terrain and population should be considered in how the state can establish the right number of federal state cemeteries to service population. But I would like to say that don't let the population density be the only factor. We have a very small cemetery in southeast. It has a population of 303 in the city. But it is in that position to where we need the 75 miles.
That is probably one of our most veteran-friendly cemeteries we have. The entire town, the entire county rallies around that thing. That is their monument, their veteran monument, that cemetery as a whole. The town, their schools, their leadership programs in the schools do fundraising for the cemetery to get to this year disinter to vet veterans that was in a cemetery that was just forgotten and overgrown. They raised the money to get that brought to us and honor those the right way.
So as yes, there should be an exception, I don't think we the dense population density should be a bigger part.
Andrew Garbarino
Okay, so an exception particularly in rural areas and as you know, especially if you're in southeast Kentucky, it can take a long way to get not a very far distance through the mountains. So appreciate that. Director Legrone, I know you all have great partnerships with the community and get a lot done with funding from the state and you all do a great job with your cemeteries. But I want to flesh out your recommendations for the Veterans Cemetery Grant Program just a little bit here. Can you expand on your testimony regarding the importance of funding this program on a state and tribal level?
Shane LaGrone
Funding this program provides each cemetery in the program to be built to a similar standard. They follow similar operating procedures and they have similar goals they try to achieve. It's all part of being part of the grant program. You have to buy into those things. When people visit the veteran cemeteries, whether they're federal or state or tribal, they expect all of them to be at a shrine level, an exceptional memorial to the veterans.
The dress right dress the military is used to and known for. Also the program allows for growth and longevity of the veteran state and tribal program cemeteries. When placing the in-ground crypts in the burial fields, the number of veterans or family members we can inter sometimes doubles, which does nothing more but expand the lifespan of that cemetery. Adding years to the lifespan of the cemetery. So in my opinion, the program is vital to the success of the state and tribal cemeteries and the increase in funding for this program allows even more stability and growth for our veteran cemeteries.
Speaker 26
And do you have any recommendations of how the NCA might better prioritize which projects fund?
Shane LaGrone
That one's a little more harder to answer because I don't know their ins and outs. Great question. I don't know their actual procedures and I really don't know the other states' needs.
I think they're doing a great job prioritizing, and I know for Kentucky they're doing a great job answering us back on why we didn't get selected or we did get selected.
Andrew Garbarino
No, thank you for that. And back to another one of the issues we discussed last week, which is the difficult topic, difficult topic of unclaimed veteran remains. A lot of this comes out of the state level, and a lot has to do with state laws and state funeral directors and the things the states are under. Can you discuss what the Commonwealth has been doing to identify and inter unclaimed remains?
Shane LaGrone
Yes, sir. Kentucky's very proud of our veteran indigent burial program and our Missing in America program. Since 2009, funeral homes that have Kentucky veterans that are indigent and unclaimed work with the KDVA to inter them into one of our state veteran cemeteries. We reimburse the funeral home for up to a thousand dollars of the expenses they incur. Our VSOs provide burial honors in the form of rifle salutes, taps, folding and presenting the flag.
And we let the communities know we have these indigent services through our social media platforms, and there's always, they always come out to show up and show their respects, and usually a hundred, two hundred people on most of these. To date, the Kentucky has paid over two hundred thirty-nine thousand dollars to funeral homes helping our veterans since 2009. The Missing in America project's another great success story for Kentucky. We have an exceptional volunteers that look throughout the state for unclaimed veterans. They look at universities, they look at funeral homes, anywhere else remains might be.
With help from the NCA, we verify and ensure that they are veterans that are eligible for burial and hold a large service for them at one of our state veteran cemeteries. Our volunteers and cemetery staff work to ensure that all branches of the military are represented during the interment service. Local communities and VSOs always support these events because no veteran is alone and we are here for each other. We try to do at least one if not two of those Missing in America events in the year, and right now I'd say we probably have about twenty people on that backlog that we will do one for this fall.
Jack Bergman
Awesome. Thank you, Mr. Director Logsdon, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks. Thank you. We've been talking about distances. Geometry is one of the greatest things that I think if people understood geometry and physics, we'd have a lot better decisions in so many ways. Good to see you all.
Thank you for being here. Mr. Lyle, it's always good to see you. Thank you for the Legion's continued advocacy on these issues. Your testimony notes that the Legion supported an additional national cemetery in Hawaii just last week, consistent with Resolution 181's call for expanding cemetery capacity where needed. Would the Legion apply the same standard to Michigan's Upper Peninsula, where nearly thirty thousand veterans currently have no in-state cemetery within reasonable reach?
I know that's a pretty direct question.
I mean, on its face, I believe we would support.
Jack Bergman
Okay. Again, I've got several questions all for you, Mr. Lyle. Of course, it's good, you advocate so well for the Legion and your engagement with all our members is second to none. You know, I don't think so? Yeah, I agree.
I'm not going to do that, sir, but thank you.
Jack Bergman
So, your written testimony actually cites the UP, the Upper Peninsula, directly. You note that a widow in the Upper Peninsula might receive fundamentally different support than a widow in the Bay Area simply because of the resources available nearby. Yeah, yeah. Could you speak to how that same geographic disparity applies to memorialization specifically, not just survivor benefits, but a family's ability to physically attend a burial or to visit a gravesite?
Cole Lyle
Yes, sir. Well, thank you, General Bergman. As with VA healthcare, VA benefits, memorialization is different from state to state, location-based on geography and a number of other factors as was alluded to previously. Seventy-five miles in one part of the country can be vastly different than seventy-five miles in another part of the country.
So, you know, we should take into account the VA should take into account the actual, you know, technical access to a resource is not the same as functional access to a resource. So for memorialization 75 miles or or so and it's a it's a good first step to get to that 95% metric that Under Secretary Brown mentioned, but, you know, we should we should take additional strides to increase access for widows like the one that was mentioned in the Upper Peninsula.
Jack Bergman
Okay, and you also described memorialization as a continuum, that the transitions between systems are often where families fall through the cracks. Again, for an Upper Peninsula veteran's family, that continuum doesn't just include a paperwork gap, it includes a 1,000 mile round trip. Does the Legion view geographic access as part of the continuity problem?
Cole Lyle
Absolutely. You know, so at end of life if a veteran is in hospice care at a VHA facility in Michigan or another rural community, you know, depending on where they are specifically, it can from VHA to memorialization at NCA and then to accessing benefits from the VBA, they're going to be obviously very different in distance and as I mentioned, the technical resource that is available is going to be different than the functional ability of that person to access those resources. So what candidly I think we would like to see is there's a program at VHA called the SAMS program, which is a FTE neutral program that's that's kind of like a social worker for families that are going to this process, but some sort of unified approach between agency to ensure that there are warm handoffs instead of the veteran's surviving family members having to do the research and the work themselves to go find those resources at each of these agencies.
Jack Bergman
Thank you. Mr. Mannion, I I've debated here for the last 30 minutes whether to make the following comment, but I know that Travis is listening. I know that your mom is listening. I know your dad, I served with your dad. I probably saw you when you were quite young and I knew Travis and we had some pretty nice parties with your dad and mom up at MAG 49 up at Willow Grove back in the I think that was probably back in the 80s.
Something like that. But I I just wanted to tell you how how important it is that you've taken up the mantle for your brother and your mom. So thank you. That Mr. Chairman I yield back.
Yes, sir.
Morgan Luttrell
It let's see I was just highlighting. Continuity frequently breaks at the hands between end of life care and memorial benefits eligibility determination and scheduling military honors coordination, reimbursement processes. So you're you're speaking the language that we all have debate about inside the VA and here in Congress.
And since you're wearing that hat, I'm going to ask, I'm assuming I'm talking to the American Legion, what's the plan? That's, I got shotgunned with this one time too when I was saying, hey, here's the issue, and somebody asked me what the plan is, like, I don't have one, I just want to bitch about it.
Cole Lyle
Thank you for the question, sir. I, as previously mentioned to General Bergman, I think, you know, we had a roundtable a couple of months ago with folks from the NCA and community organizations. And I proposed, you know, there should be some sort of portal, some sort of unified portal for veterans and their spouses that starts, you know, pre-need as early as humanly possible in the VHA in order to facilitate...
What is pre-need?
Cole Lyle
Well, you know, like when before they're in hospice care. Candidly, so the VHA has the ability, only people who are enrolled in the VHA are really given access to the VA's program to do wills and estates and things like that to make those transitions a little easier when the time of need actually happens. So getting upstream as early as possible to make sure...
Morgan Luttrell
The VA has programs injected into the department that currently handle some of these things in some way, I would expect, correct?
Morgan Luttrell
Here's the tricky part. The veterans. I say this all the time when I'm on committee. We are a very hard group to handle. Now, even if the VA put everything in place, it's still our responsibility to do it.
And I don't, and because you mentioned, you mentioned marketing, let's see, expansion, I'm sorry, I wrote it down. How do you, even if, okay, so again, American Legion, let's just say you have the perfect business model that they can implement inside the system, okay, which again, I'm going to ask you if you have that. And secondly, when you roll the tape back, how do you get us to touch it? Not us Congress, but veterans, I'm speaking veterans here.
Cole Lyle
Yes, sir. Well, the thing I would say is, as previously mentioned, I think the SAMS program is a great place to start because it does, at least within VHA, offer that kind of warm handoff, that person-to-person...
That's there.
Cole Lyle
It's there. It's FTE neutral and it's set to be fully implemented by the end of this year. It's a great program. But it's not necessarily integrated super well with the other different agencies. And again, it's FTE neutral, so people that are doing this work...
Morgan Luttrell
Is this something the Legion and the VFW, DAV, and Warrior Foundation, and Travis Manion Foundation, something that they can Facebook for us and say, hey, these, this is here and it exists and you should be paying attention to it?
Cole Lyle
Well, the, I can only speak for the American Legion, like we routinely put out these, these resources to veterans as kind of a force multiplier for VA to make sure that these veterans and their families know that these things exist. It's obviously, as you know, less than 50% of veterans are enrolled in VHA care, so there's the other, you know, 50%, it's our job as civic organizations to educate those folks about these resources. So we do that. We try. In terms of getting veterans access, education, and the resources they need, but as mentioned, when people are in different seasons of life where they're going through end-of-life care, they're just not immediately thinking of those things, so it becomes harder to try to get people and educate...
Morgan Luttrell
How do you bridge the gap between the VA and end-of-life care when the VA's not going to have any idea that's happening?
Cole Lyle
Well, I mentioned in written testimony, I think that VA routine VA interactions could, they could introduce more of these kind of upstream resources and try to get that integrated as much as possible.
Morgan Luttrell
How do we get our elders, and I mean that with the most respect when I say it that way, to do that? Because the VA is not, it's an open door, I mean they're sitting there ready to receive. I'm just having a, this is two veterans trying to figure a problem out. I don't know how to answer this question because I hear what you're saying and so how do we fix it?
Cole Lyle
It's a complex problem because you're talking about some veterans enrolled in VHA care that don't necessarily use it until they need it towards end of life, right? Which is why I said integrating some of this stuff into routine like primary care appointments, specialty care appointments, and at least giving folks the education to these resources that they have for people that are enrolled in VHA care. But, you know, from community events and engagements that the Legion does largely at the post level and the state level, particularly around events like Memorial Day, Veterans Day, big type events, integrating some of this education and resource into our media marketing materials. We partner with the VA on the Veterans Legacy Program project.
Morgan Luttrell
So all of this, because I'm well over time, can we back this all the way up and hand it to a service member who's leaving and saying, you need to pay attention to this for the rest of your life?
I think it'd be a great start.
Morgan Luttrell
Because if it's implemented into the VA, which you got the hot handoff, train's running down the track, hey ready set go jump, the VA's that way. And then you have to kind of pick it apart once we get there. And if for ease of movement, if we were to prep our service members when they're exiting with everything that you just spoke about with the VA on board, saying, here is your end-of-life preparatory movement, don't lose it. I shouldn't say it that way, but.
Cole Lyle
I think it'd be a great start. I mean, as you're well aware, trying to change and improve TAP is an ongoing process. So if that's what you're talking about, like I certainly think that's a start. But then you go five, 10, 20, 30 years down the line when somebody needs to maybe update a will or laws and regulation changes, the education is a continual process. So to the extent possible, trying to institutionalize some of these things within.
Morgan Luttrell
Not necessarily institutionalize it, but what's the army, you're a Marine, what's the army term for?
Cole Lyle
I mean, don't look at me, I was in the Marine Corps too, so I don't know.
Morgan Luttrell
Well, I guess we're screwed then. I'll try to put it in crayon. Anyway, a conversation that I think we need to kind of develop more with not only you all, the VA, as well as the Department of War. Ms. Manyon, I told you that I wouldn't let you get out of here without me saying something to you, but thank you for everything that you are doing for our veterans and service members and God bless your family. Mr. McGarvey, you have a closing statement?
Andrew Garbarino
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to all of our witnesses today. Appreciate all of you all being here, all of your continued service. Ms. Manyon, you have been recognized by everyone else on this dais today and I don't want you to escape without a thanks from us as well. What you're doing is really incredible and appreciate your incredible devotion and persistence in advocating for our veterans.
I think it's easy for us in Congress to get lost in the technicalities of programs, to get lost in the flash of the news cycle, but in this room we just are clear-eyed and we see veterans at the heart of every single thing we do.
So yeah, we ask some tough questions. Yes, we want to know some of the plans. We want to know what you all think, how it's impacting the veterans, how these programs are actually playing out from the cemeteries of Southeast Kentucky to veterans trying to get end-of-life care. We want to make sure that we're here to uphold the voices of those we serve, the veterans. So I'm thankful for you all being here to discuss the thousands of burials, the ceremonies, the educational events, the acres of land you oversee.
I look forward to future advancements in cemetery operations that allow for better scheduling and greater support of NCA directors, caretakers, crews, and all staff that ensure this mission has a 100% success rate. Although the Under Secretary is still here, 98%'s pretty darn good.
Andrew Garbarino
Yeah, phenomenal number. So I do hope that as we continue our partnerships, we're making positive changes for our veterans, that we're continuing to uphold that incredible standard that the American people demand of us, that we must continue to work towards better cooperation between federal and state cemeteries. Thank you, Mr. Legrone, for coming here from Kentucky and for your testimony regarding the Veterans Cemetery Grant Program. And I think, you know, what this committee does, we don't get it always right ourselves, but we do keep the veteran at the heart of everything we do, the center of everything we do. We do right by them, we'll be doing the right thing.
So, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Morgan Luttrell
Thank you, sir. At our 250th birthday, we are at that incredible milestone because of the bravery of the men and women who's those that we've lost, those that we haven't, and we think about them every day. And Mr. McGarvey and I, when we hold these committee hearings, we just ask that everybody kind of pour their heart and soul into their testimony because he and I are all in on this and we have been from step-off. And Mr. Secretary, thank you for coming in today, and I don't know if anybody is still with you that was testifying, but as we continue to move forward, we keep a watchful eye. And I like to say this and it will always resonate with me is that we are in the business of serving our veterans, and no matter how hard or how easy it ever has to be, when you wake up every single day, you can never forget that.
And because the day that you do, we will lose. And for those that served this great country throughout our history, we always want to make sure that they will understand and those that have lost to their loved ones will understand how much we care for them. So I ask unanimous consent that all members shall have five legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks and include any extraneous material in the record. Hearing no objection, so ordered. With that, this hearing is adjourned.