“The Continuing Tragedy of Sanctuary Laws”
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House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement U.S. House of Representatives
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Tom McClintock
ICE had to track him down and arrest him at large a few weeks later. The only reason we can hold him now to face justice is because ICE is detaining him under the INA. Of course, in a sanctuary jurisdiction like Oregon, there's no assurance that he will ever be prosecuted. We'll also hear today from Broome County Sheriff Frederick Akshar. He and 14 other New York sheriffs have challenged the new liberal state laws that restrict their ability to coordinate with federal immigration authorities.
These local law enforcement officials are asking Albany for one simple thing: let them do their job so that they can protect their communities. The Democrats complain that these hearings are a waste of time because the bill to end these sanctuary policies, a bill that every one of them opposed in this committee, has not yet been taken up on the House floor. Well, the Judiciary Committee Republicans want it brought up to pass it, the Democrats want to bring it up to defeat it. The majority leader assured me last night that both sides will have that chance before the end of this session. But until it is taken up and passed, this subcommittee will take every opportunity to sound the alarm and give voice to the victims of this tragic and deadly policy.
I look forward to our witnesses' testimony, and I now recognize the ranking member for her opening statement.
Pramila Jayapal
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. I thank all of our witnesses and the families for being here today, and I express my condolences for the tremendous losses that you have suffered. Every one of my colleagues on the Democratic side agrees with Republicans that we as a committee should do everything possible to prevent these deaths. The question on the table is how to do so.
Congress is tasked with the awesome responsibility of crafting immigration policy that is sensible, humane, orderly, and effective. That means we have to consider every aspect of that policy. We should be holding hearings on real solutions that fix an immigration system that has not been modernized to meet the needs of our country in over 30 years. That means hearing from families like yours, yes. It also means hearing from families of the six people, including three US citizens, who DHS agents shot in cold blood on our streets.
It means hearing from the families of the 56 people who have died in for-profit immigration detention centers. This is a record number of deaths under this administration because the administration has decided not to enforce any of the basic detention standards Congress put into place. It means hearing from the multiple US citizens who were illegally detained and deported by ICE, and the countless people who were illegally deported to countries to which immigration judges ruled that they should never be forced to go. It means hearing from the CEOs of the private for-profit detention centers that are using your US taxpayer dollars to incarcerate over 65,000 people every single night. It means hearing from businesses who are seeing their long-term workers with zero criminal records being deported, and from the families of seniors and children whose care workers have been deported and now have no one to care for their precious family.
We should hear from the US Forest Service officials who just terrorized five families at the Red Bridge Campground in the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest in my home state of Washington.
Two rangers approached the campsite during the day and took photographs of several of the adults' IDs, and then just before midnight, armed ICE officers arrived with Forest Service rangers, shook the families' tents, terrorized the children who were inside, and arrested five men — fathers, uncles, godfathers — who are now detained at the Northwest Detention Center. What a waste of Forest Service resources when they should be fighting fires and ensuring that our public lands are available to everyone. I have demanded answers to this, but surprise, surprise, I have not received any. This committee has zero interest in ensuring accountability or actually moving forward sensible immigration policy that this country desperately needs. Republicans say they have a solution to all of this pain that you all have suffered.
It is H.R. 7640. Let me be very clear: Republicans have already passed that bill through this committee months and months ago, despite our side's complete disagreement with their approach. But guess what? They have the majority in this committee, they have the majority on the floor, and they can bring it to the floor for a vote. But they have not.
Why have they not brought this bill to the floor for a vote? You have to ask yourselves that. I'll tell you: it's because despite having full control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, they won't be able to get the votes to pass that bill because it does not work, and the American people do not want their solution of mass deportations. Republicans gave 240 billion — billion with a B — dollars of taxpayer money to DHS for immigration enforcement, but none of that has made our communities safer. For the first time this summer, the majority of people that DHS arrested were people who pose absolutely no threat to public safety, and the number of people with criminal convictions who are arrested by ICE actually decreased — decreased, not increased.
That's because when DHS expends all of its energy to go after parents, long-time friends, neighbors, when HSI agents who are supposed to investigate serious crime and human trafficking are instead being moved to street sweeps and riding along with local police for random traffic stops, we are less safe, not more safe. The Trump administration has cut thousands of staff members from federal agencies like the FBI, the DEA, ATF, dropped tens of thousands of criminal investigations, including terrorism cases, to prioritize immigration enforcement. Federal law enforcement agents have been reassigned from standard criminal investigations to hit immigration arrest quotas, and that has also led to deadly mistakes like the murder of Johan Sebastian Duran Guerrero, a 25-year-old father and husband with a valid work permit who was shot and killed by ICE agents who were actually targeting someone else. Or when ICE killed 52-year-old father and husband Lorenzo Salgado Araujo because they were looking for someone else and they said that Mr. Araujo, quote, "resembled the target." Shifting entire systems toward mass deportation actually leaves communities vulnerable to transnational crime, drug trafficking, and other non-immigration threats.
And guess what? The majority of Americans across party lines know that. That is exactly why public polling shows that Trump's numbers on how he has handling immigration enforcement have plummeted. You see, whatever you hear today, the majority of Americans across party lines do not want to see this cruelty that makes us even less safe.
These are the last four days of legislative work before the midterms. Fox News and our Republican colleagues will use clips of this hearing and the horrific pain that you have suffered to try and convince the American people that we don't care about you. They'll show darkened photos of my face, which they do regularly. They'll encourage more death threats against all of us and blast terrible headlines about how Democrats refuse to stand up for the American people. All so that they can desperately try to convince Americans before the midterm elections that they are not somehow responsible for driving up gas prices and grocery prices to an all-time high with their illegal war in Iran, so that Americans have to choose between feeding their families and paying their rent.
They want you to forget that they slashed healthcare for tens of millions of Americans just so they could give trillions of dollars of tax breaks to billionaires and giant corporations. In fact, just this week it was reported that their Big Bad Betrayal bill that they passed last summer allowed giant AI companies that operate these data centers and are developing out-of-control technology that could eliminate the human race, those companies now pay 25% less in corporate taxes because of what our Republican colleagues did. They really hope that you forget all of this and instead that you blame immigrants: your neighbors, your co-workers, your friends, your family. I think the American people are smarter than that. I am truly sorry for what you suffered, regardless of what they say today.
Just ask yourselves why Republicans won't just pass the bill that they say is the solution to all of this, even though they have the majority. And consider that maybe, just maybe, that bill and their solution of mass deportations doesn't fix anything, and it certainly doesn't fix the pain that you legitimately feel. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and I yield back.
Tom McClintock
Gentlelady yields back. Without objection, all other opening statements will be included in the record, and I'll now introduce today's witnesses. Mr. Anatoli Varfolomeev is a resident of California, a sanctuary state. He's a naturalized US citizen after having immigrated legally from the USSR in 1991. Mr. Varfolomeev worked as an engineer for many years at high-tech companies and has owned his own business.
His daughter Anya was killed by a repeat criminal and illegal alien drunk driver in California in November of 2021. We have Honorable Sheriff Fred Akshar. Mr. Akshar has been Sheriff of Broome County, New York since 2023. His career in law enforcement began with two years as a dispatcher with the Chenango County Sheriff's Office before serving 13 years with the Broome County Sheriff's Office. Sheriff Akshar served in the New York State Senate from 2015 to 2022 and is a plaintiff in a lawsuit seeking to strike down New York's sanctuary laws.
Mrs. Elizabeth Carter is a resident of Oregon, a sanctuary state. She's a homemaker, mother, and grandmother of one. Together with her husband Dennis, she raised three sons and a daughter. Mrs. Carter's son Billy and daughter-in-law Jenny were killed in November 2025 by an illegal alien truck driver that had been issued a commercial driver's license by the California Department of Motor Vehicles, drove recklessly and jackknifed his semi-truck on an Oregon highway. Billy and Jenny had been married for only 16 days.
And we have Ms. Noreen Shah, Director of Immigration Policy at the American Civil Liberties Union, here at the invitation of the Democrats. She previously served as Senior Director of Campaigns at the US section of Amnesty International and as Acting Director of Columbia Law School's Human Rights Clinic. Ms. Shah has a JD from Columbia Law School and a BS from Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism. We welcome our witnesses and thank them for appearing today, and we'll begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and raise your right hand?
Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information and belief, so help you God? Let the record reflect the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Thank you. Please know your written testimony will be entered in the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we'd ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes and we'll begin with Mrs. Carter.
Elizabeth Carter
Thank you for having me here to speak today. I hope I do it justice. I'm here to speak on behalf of myself and my husband Dennis, but as well Thomas and Rebecca Lauer, parents of Jennifer Lynn Lauer, the most amazing daughter-in-law I could have ever hoped for. They've asked me to be sure to mention that our kids didn't like politics. They didn't get into it.
They they they would be heartbroken at the thought that their memory is being used for a political football tossed back and forth making points on an issue that they knew little to nothing about. Billy and Jenny, Billy and Jenny loved their faith. It was important to them and they were both raised with a sense of service being important so they volunteered regularly in their community. It was important to them to help help those who couldn't help themselves or to reach a hand out to somebody who just needed compassion and understanding. I was born in Phoenix, Arizona and so were all four of my children.
My husband Dennis and I lived in the first home we ever had together listening to the sound of gunfire regularly at night. We were in a neighborhood where there were gangs all around us and I didn't feel safe letting my children leave leave the inside of the house to play in our front yard. We made it our mission to get our children to a safer place, away from the the big city and the crime that was rampant in Phoenix around us. And my husband applied multiple times to get a a job with the federal government because we knew that could move us out of Arizona. I thought I was taking my children to the safe safest place I could bring them.
I did not realize that I was taking them to a a state where sanctuary policies would then sanctuary policies have made sanctuary policies have divided my life into before and after. Before, my son and daughter-in-law were married and killed sixteen days after they were married. And after. Before, I had tremendous faith in my government. I I loved our justice system, the fact that everybody is entitled to a fair trial, that nobody regardless of race, creed, color, national origin, no one in our country is denied the right to a fair trial when accused of a crime.
Patty Carter
I I was proud of that. And then after after I was aware made aware of the fact that losing your children isn't the worst thing that can happen to you. Having to fight your justice system just to get a fair trial to get answers. That that is the worst thing that can happen. We were planning a wedding in Oregon before.
After we had to plan his and hers funeral in our hometown and their hometown. The other driver was an illegal immigrant who was caught the day he came into the country through Lukeville Arizona and released immediately for breaking our laws and not following the path of of immigration that is set out for them. The person driving the other vehicle Mr. Rohinder Kumar was rewarded. He was allowed into the country. He was given the right to work and he was given a commercial driver's license by the state of California.
Didn't matter to California that the federal government wasn't okay with him getting that driver's license. It didn't matter to them that other states would have no say in whether someone they gave a driver's license to was on their road. And after coming back from their honeymoon and a second reception in Jenny's hometown Billy and Jenny didn't make it home to their first apartment to start their lives together. This would not have happened if instead of catching and releasing Mr. Kumar was asked to go through the proper legal process. It has been my experience that getting straight answers when your federal government and your state government disagree and are prohibited by laws from talking to each other is nearly impossible.
People born in our country deserve a fair trial if their life is lost and having to fight and beg for that has been a great injustice and left me feeling betrayed by my government. I thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
Noreen Shah
Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman Madam Ranking Member members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Noreen Shaw and I'm the ACLU's director of immigration policy. No words can express how deeply sorry I am for your loss. As a parent I can't imagine your daily pain and no statistics or policy points matter to that pain.
And I know several angel families have appeared before this committee with incredible courage because they don't want one more family to have to endure what they've endured. Mr. Chairman we have differing perspectives I'm sure but I think it's safe to say everyone in this room wants our communities to be safe. What this administration is doing is not the hard work to make our community safer. They're not making our communities more safe because they're not trying to make crimes like the one your children experienced not happen again. They're simply running up their deportation numbers arresting as many people as possible.
Today I want to share another story a story of an American boy named Orlin Reyes who's three years old. He was born in Florida to a woman named Wendy. On January 8th 2026 Wendy dropped Orlin with a babysitter for the day and she headed to work pouring concrete at a construction site.
Minutes before she and her sister arrived, they were stopped by the local sheriff's office and this was a traffic stop that would change Wendy's life forever. Like most of us, Wendy worked hard to earn a living for her kids, for her kid. But local officers saw the sisters had equipment in their truck, heard them speak Spanish, and even though there was no detainer on file, Wendy had no criminal history, nor did her sister, local officers called ICE, who took the women into custody. Wendy wrote a letter to Congress and I'll read from it now. I told ICE that I was a single mother, that Orlan is just a toddler, that he depended on me.
No one cared. We were taken to jail and our four children were left behind. The only person available to care for our children was my sister's former partner, a man she had left because of domestic violence. From detention, I begged ICE for help. I told them I wanted Orlan to come with me if I was deported and I asked ICE to give me a copy of my passport so I could request Orlan's US passport.
ICE did not respond. Wendy was deported without her son and in Honduras she immediately requested his passport. The day she received it, hours later, she got the worst news any of us could possibly imagine: Orlan had been killed. Imagine the desperation of being a single mom torn from your toddler and how frantic you'd be for his safety, and then hundreds of miles away to learn your worst nightmare had been realized. She wrote: The police say Orlan suffered terrible abuse.
He had broken ribs, burns, blunt force injuries and signs of sexual assault. My son was my whole world. He was my light. I was his protector. I will miss him for the rest of my life.
If the sheriff's office had not called ICE that day, Wendy would have returned to her little boy and he would be alive. Across the country, thousands of local law enforcement agencies are now working for ICE as it seeks to arrest as many people as possible, not for our safety, but to fill a quota. Public safety is taking a back seat as ICE literally takes a front seat in ride-alongs with local police, using traffic stops and checkpoints to stop people for no reason other than their black or brown skin. And the scenes of blatant racial profiling in this country are un-American. In late July, local law enforcement, the US Forest Service and ICE turned a popular swimming spot in Pisgah National Forest into a deportation trap, stopping the cars with Latino drivers, waving the cars with white drivers through.
In states that have banned sanctuary, that have embraced ICE, like Florida, families are afraid of the police who are sworn to protect them. Schoolchildren have watched from bus windows as parents or neighbors are arrested by local police or ICE. When American citizens are chased by masked agents and tackled to the ground because they quote look immigrant, we're not safer. When masked agents shoot people in our streets, we are not safer. When in Tom Homan's own words, quote half the people ICE arrest are quote non-criminals, and when just 4% of people ICE is using taxpayer dollars to put away, only 4% have a violent criminal history, we are not safer.
It's time we fix this. We need to build a new system that earns back public trust from everyone, where our law enforcement agencies are not diverted to serve an arbitrary arrest quota for immigrants but focused on and resourced to carry out proven strategies to keep our community safe. Where immigrant workers and families are not left to live in fear but have a real path to gain legal status and earn citizenship. Thank you.
Speaker 5
Thank you for your testimony. Next we will hear from Sheriff Frederick Akshar.
Frederick Akshar
Mr. Chairman, thank you, members of the committee, thank you for having me here today. I've served in public service for the last 26 years and have a unique perspective, 19 of which as a member of law enforcement, seven, Mr. Chairman, as you mentioned, as a member of the New York State Senate, proudly representing the people of the 52nd Senate District. I am Fred Akshar, I proudly serve as Broome County's 58th elected sheriff. Today, I lead a law enforcement agency of over 300 sworn officers and civilians and oversee a 600-bed correctional facility.
The men and women of the Broome County Sheriff's Office, some of whom I am with here today and with whom I proudly serve beside, have devoted themselves to protecting and serving the people of our community. Every day they put on the uniform, they kiss their loved ones goodbye, and they put themselves in harm's way to protect others, to prevent tragedies from occurring and to protect families, loved ones, and community members like the witnesses that join us here today. Over the past several years, we've seen bureaucrats in Albany consistently working to make it harder and harder for these men and women in uniform to do their job and keep people safe. And no matter the hypothetical intentions behind laws like Raise the Age, bail reform, discovery reform, Less is More, and the HALT Act, the real-world consequences of these laws have turned the criminal justice system in New York into a revolving door of repeat offenders being released without any consequences, only to create new victims every day. New York's so-called Local Cops, Local Crime Act is just another in a long line of politically motivated stunts designed to appease advocates and do what is politically expedient for some at the expense of public safety and common sense.
While it says one thing, it does another. And what these new statutes actually do is let Albany cancel local public safety contracts and then investigate the sheriffs who made them, putting handcuffs on cops rather than the criminals that they were designed for. Make no mistake, the Broome County Sheriff's Office always will and always has complied with the law as written. But I have joined 14 other independently elected sheriffs across the great state of New York and filed a lawsuit to stop the new statute. The policy of the Broome County Sheriff's Office from the start has been to prioritize public safety with a clear understanding of what our role is.
We understand that our deputies are not immigration officers and we would not be participating in the day-to-day civil immigration enforcement. Thanks to those in the federal government, there is an entire agency dedicated to doing that very thing. But if there were ever a situation in our community where our safety was in jeopardy because of a wanted criminal, regardless of their immigration status, we would not hesitate to act in the interest of protecting our community. We have always supported our colleagues in law enforcement regardless of the agency in which they work or the uniform that they wear because that's what cops do. Broome County is not immune to the consequences of 10 million undocumented and unvetted people who entered our country thanks to the Biden and Harris administration.
In August of 2024, in Endicott, in Broome County, two miles away from where my six-year-old son goes to school, a Peruvian gang leader and serial killer, Gianfranco Torres-Navarro, wanted for killing 23 people in Peru, was located and arrested. He had entered the country illegally in May of that same year. He was arrested, he was given a ticket to appear at a future date. Did he go? Of course he didn't go.
He came to New York. He came to my community to hide thanks to the sanctuary laws that are embraced by and promoted by Democrat leaders in New York. Rather than protecting law-abiding New Yorkers, their laws provide safe harbor for people like Torres-Navarro. We were part of the 287(g) program, the Warrant Service Officer program. All of that has been taken away from us thanks to Governor Hochul and the Democrat-led New York State Legislature.
As I said, we didn't actively participate in day-to-day civil immigration, but for the past 20 years, the Office of the Sheriff has held federal detainees on behalf of our federal law enforcement partners. I swore an oath to protect the people of Broome County and I did not swear an oath to protect and accept a state statute that forces the end of federal contracts and meaningful working relationships with federal law enforcement partners because Governor Hochul dislikes that partner.
I want to repeat something that I said back at home a couple of weeks ago because I feel so strongly about it. I don't answer to Governor Hochul. I don't answer to Tish James. I answer directly to the great people of Broome County. My authority doesn't come by way of the governor, the attorney general.
It doesn't come by way of an interview in a boardroom. It comes through the people at the ballot box. That's where my authority comes from. Mr. Chairman, I've, I've been asked why'd you file a lawsuit against the two of the most powerful people in Albany and it's very, very simple. Because my colleagues are standing up for what's right and we're standing up for public safety.
We're standing up for parents that sit to my left and my right who have suffered unimaginable pain. That's why we're suing the governor and that's why we're suing the attorney general. I thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions.
Tom McClintock
Thank you for your testimony and finally we will hear from Mr. Anatoliy Vorphalomeev.
Anatoli Varfolomeev
Good morning. Thank you everybody for inviting me to this hearing. I am an ordinary citizen, I'm politically incorrect, I do not belong to any party. I'm just an angry, grieving father. My 19-year-old daughter Anya was killed together with her childhood friend on November 13, 2021 by illegal alien Oscar Ortega.
Here's Anya's story. Anya was the youngest daughter in the family. Her sisters were 13 and 22, so she's a baby sister. From age three she loved classic ballet and she later spent up to 40 hours per week practicing her professional technique at Bayer Ballet Academy in Mountain View. She joined scouts because she believed in scouting.
She graduated French International School and having graduated she spoke three languages freely and plus she spoke Spanish. With her future degree in chemistry she was a sophomore at Foothill College. She wanted to probably join the US Department of State. Anya never complained. She was bright, smart, athletic, hardworking, creative, crafty, loved arts and drawing.
She was always busy with studies and her hobbies. She was just the perfect child. But that future was taken away in an instance by an illegal alien criminal abetted by the Biden administration and California bureaucrats who allowed him into the country. At 3:00 AM on Sunday morning on November 14, 2021 two police officers knocked on my door with the most terrible news and our lives was crushed forever. They told that a car flying at 100 miles per hour rammed a car with two people inside and they found Anya's ID.
They asked for medical records to identify the body. I knew something was wrong. Anya's car was hit with a force that spun it over three lanes from their exit lane and burst into flames. The children burned inside. Sorry.
The coroner's office released the bodies of our children for funeral in closed caskets. We were not allowed to open them.
Speaker 18
Last week I thought I had the guts to look at the report from the coroner. Here are some words. The body of a female measuring 62 inches with extensive charred and burning of the body with numerous fractures, some heat related. I won't read further. That stopped me right there.
Our tragedy was the direct result of crazy, sinister, incomprehensible, stupidly anti-American open border policy by the Biden-Harris administration embraced by Democrat politicians and sanctuary state with ignorant, arrogant, and self-righteous bureaucrats like Prince Gavin Newsom and his minions. They are responsible for what happened to my daughter and Anya. And we are not the only victims. I hope you remember some of the names of those who testified before you, not only the persons that are foreigners that came here illegally. Over 350 people attended Anya's funeral of different ages.
And I can tell you that none of them was from my family, basically my wife and my daughter. That's it, who were present. We don't have family here in the United States. In April, on April 28, 2022, the criminal was sentenced to 10 years in state prison and restitution of 40,000 for funeral and burial expenses. Of course, he never paid.
In January, he was supposed to be released by CDCR just after three and a half years of sentence time. The sanctuary state of California completely betrayed and abandoned our children, our community. None of the letters, petitions signed and sent to Governor Newsom, Rob Bonta, San Mateo Congress representative Kevin Mullin, from none of 13 local assembly members we contacted, no response. It took us three years in sanctuary California to find out a 39-year-old felon was not only a repeat criminal with previous prison times who never had license to drive in California, but he was illegal alien already deported twice in 2016 and 21. And he should not have been in the country.
The fact that the criminal was allowed by the policy of open borders added anger and pain. That was crazy, wild, disgusting, and shameful. At my naturalization in 2001, I pledged allegiance to the United States of America, to the Constitution, not to a phony sanctuary state. As a US citizen, I follow the laws of the land, the federal laws, as everyone else should be. I am not a California citizen.
I'm just a resident. And I hope that my testimony will help some of you to come to proper conclusions. And I am asking, why Anya's safety was ignored? Why she was not protected by the government? Why she was punished by the democratic government?
Why? The criminal was released and was picked up by ICE. Thankfully, he also faced the federal indictment charges and he was sentenced to additional 46 months in federal prison. He will be released in December 2028. We hope that ICE will remove him, kick him out of the country forever.
There is no satisfaction or vindication in all of this for me, for my family.
Anatoli Varfolomeev
My now forever 19-year-old daughter Anya is not with me anymore. I do not feel safer for my family and my two grandchildren in sanctuary California. The shameful sanctuary lawlessness must be stopped. The attack on ICE must be stopped. Govern and law enforcements of all levels should work with ICE to clear the country from illegal invaders to make Americans safer.
And I want the responsible for the murder of my daughter, for hiding information from the victim families like us, for open borders and creating that chaos with sanctuary policies to be held accountable. With that, I want to conclude my testimony and I would love to say more, but I'm too emotional to proceed. Thank you.
Speaker 16
Thank you for your testimony and thank you for being here today to tell your story. We'll now proceed with five-minute questions beginning with the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Jordan.
Tom McClintock
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sheriff, if I could, without objection, Mr. Goldman will be permitted to participate in today's hearing for the purpose of questioning witnesses if a member yields some time for that purpose, hearing no objection, so ordered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sheriff, it's a big step to sue your own state, isn't it?
It's the right thing to do, Mr. Chairman.
Of course not.
Jim Jordan
But you've seen, you've seen what this crazy law means in practice. Can you just, just, just tell us again what, let's say, let's say you got an illegal migrant who's been charged with another crime who's in your jail, or I think you said you had a 600-person jail that you oversee, who's in your jail and then is going to be released on some kind of bail or whatever. What's the, and ICE notifies you, sends a detainer. In New York, what do you have to do?
Jim Jordan
Let them out the back door. You can't turn him over to the federal government even though he's here illegally and committed, potentially committed another, been charged with another crime.
You got to let him go.
Yes.
Jim Jordan
Right. And many times these individuals, when they're let go, tragic things happen as we've just heard from, from these amazing parents. And so that's why you decided you're going to sue your own state. Is that right?
Public safety first.
Jim Jordan
Yeah, because I think in your testimony you said you take an oath. You take an oath to the people in your county who elected you as the guy who's in charge of making sure that that county's as safe as possible. Is that right?
Frederick Akshar
That has been, that has been the greatest challenge, having to take edicts from Albany so far removed from public safety matters and taking away from, from local law enforcement.
Jim Jordan
Exactly, they don't know the folks in your, Broome County, I think you said, they don't know the folks in Broome County like you do. You stood for election, your name was on the ballot, they elected you for public safety reasons and you know this law jeopardizes public safety.
100 percent.
Jim Jordan
100 percent. Now, I want to know, I actually believe this is, this is a systematic plan of the Democrat Party. Step one, I think you had this in your, in your statement as well, Sheriff, step one, let in during the Biden administration, let in 10 million people. Step two, create sanctuary jurisdictions which makes it difficult to remove those individuals even when they commit another crime. Step three, don't fund the guys who do the removing.
Twice this Congress the Democrats have shut down the government because they didn't want to fund ICE. This is a strategy the left has which makes absolute no sense. Would you agree with that?
Frederick Akshar
I agree, I think it's a failing strategy and I think the witnesses that are at the table today are a clear indication of that.
Jim Jordan
They sure are, they sure are. Do you think sanctuary jurisdictions are also an attraction for people to come into the country, particularly bad guys who've done bad things who enter the country? Do you think that's the case, Sheriff?
Frederick Akshar
I think the case of Torres Navarro in Endicott, again, where very close to where my six-year-old son goes to school is a, is a very clear example of that. Sanctuary policies allow for safe harbor.
Jim Jordan
Any idea, any idea how many, what percentage of the American population lives in a sanctuary jurisdiction, Sheriff, any idea?
I do not know, Mr. Chairman.
Jim Jordan
Almost a third. Think about that. 340 million people in the greatest country ever, almost a third live in a jurisdiction where the politicians tell good local law enforcement like you, you can't work with federal law enforcement to enforce federal law. Is that maybe the dumbest thing you've ever heard?
I agree.
Jim Jordan
I mean, it's just, it's just crazy. So I appreciate what you're doing. I know it's not easy. I appreciate these guys behind you you brought with you. You're not the first sheriff.
We had a sheriff a couple weeks ago at a hearing who was suing his state, state of Maryland, same darn reason. Blue state doing crazy left-wing policies, and the sheriff says, "I took an oath to the people in my county to stand up for them." I don't want happening what happened to these, these parents with those amazing kids. I mean, the videos, I apologize, I walked in for half of yours, Ms. Carter, but I saw the... if I got it right, Ms. Carter, it was shortly after their wedding when this happened?
Sixteen days. Sixteen days.
Jim Jordan
Yeah. I mean, you can just tell, amazing-looking people. Obviously, your daughter was a talented ballerina. I mean, just, just amazing to see. That's what happens when you have just dumb policy.
Just work with the federal government. Just work with them. I get it. I just do not understand this. And we will keep, and I want to thank our chairman, we will keep talking about this until we... we've got a bill that we passed four months ago in this committee that deals with this problem.
And we will, we will keep doing hearings until that bill gets passed. And I want to thank Chairman McClintock for his great work on that legislation and for doing these hearings, letting grieving parents come tell the story and letting people who care about the safety of their community, who are willing to go sue their own darn state, come forward and testify. So again, thank you all for being here. I yield back.
Pramila Jayapal
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, the chairman is right, they do have a bill. They did pass it through the committee because they have the majority, even though we disagreed with that approach. And four months ago, it's been sitting there. The majority that is Republican in the United States Congress has not passed their bill.
Because they can't. Because people know it's not a good idea. Because it doesn't solve the problem. So they can keep talking about their bill, but their own party has refused to pass it on the floor. Ms. Shah, when we raise legitimate concerns about the thuggish way that the Trump administration is approaching immigration enforcement, Republicans try to blame everything on sanctuary jurisdictions.
And they say that if only jurisdictions would comply with ICE detainers, then ICE would not need to be roaming our communities profiling people that they suspect of being undocumented. But in Texas, which outlawed sanctuary laws, ICE officers chased down and shot Lorenzo Salgado-Araujo because he was a Latino man driving a white van. In Florida, where local law enforcement has been forced by the state to enter into 287(g) agreements, US citizens and immigrants alike are arrested with excessive violence, and even children are intimidated and harmed. Is any of this making us safer?
Noreen Shah
Congresswoman, when we divert local police to serving local communities to instead serving ICE, it doesn't make us safer, particularly when ICE is bringing violence and chaos to our communities, racially profiling people, inflicting violence just day-to-day in the way that they operate. It doesn't make our communities safer. And we know a lot of people in Florida and Texas are living in fear of the police who were sworn to protect them.
Pramila Jayapal
I know that the ACLU's done a lot of work and spent a great deal of time compiling reports from communities around the country, both those that cooperate with ICE and those that do not. Is there any correlation, any at all, between cooperation and safety?
Noreen Shah
What we see in studies over and over again is that sanctuary policies work in the sense that they reduce the number of people in half who are deported who don't actually have criminal convictions. They have no effect whatsoever on the deportation of people who do have violent criminal convictions. The reason for this is pretty simple. Even if you are a sanctuary jurisdiction, you're still cooperating with ICE. You still send the fingerprints of people who are booked into local custody to ICE.
Laws like the one that passed in New York that bar 287(g) agreements don't preclude people from honoring ICE detainers. Even if you're in a sanctuary jurisdiction that does preclude honoring ICE detainers, most of the time those jurisdictions have exceptions for violent felonies, and they simply say, "Get a warrant if you want to be able to pick this person up." And of course, ICE is free to do so.
Pramila Jayapal
And ICE has enormous amounts of money, hundreds of billions of dollars now that's been given to ICE, and yet they won't do the work to actually go pick up the people that are there. They want the local law enforcement to sometimes violate constitutional rights, violate the Constitution, and notify them. And so one of the most horrific examples that you raised was of Orlen, three-year-old Orlen. His mother, Wendy Hernandez Reyes, you told her story, and you know that Orlen was left in the custody of an abusive uncle who eventually murdered him. That uncle murdered him.
It never should have happened if, and it wouldn't have happened if ICE had simply followed its own detained parents' directive and never detained Wendy or separated her from Orlen. Ms. Shah, would Orlen be alive today if his family had been in a so-called sanctuary jurisdiction when she was pulled over by local police?
Pramila Jayapal
Orlen would be alive today, and I have a bill, Orlen's Law, that I introduced to prevent what happened to Orlen at the federal level, but it should never come to that. I want to give you a chance to respond to the ongoing claims that the Republicans make that there is no cooperation between local law enforcement and federal enforcement. I think this is an important point that you raised, and since I have a little bit more time, I'm going to give you a chance to just explain that and what the problems are and why it is that local law enforcement does not want to honor detainers.
Noreen Shah
Congressman, law enforcement are some of the leading critics of the 287(g) program, the program that involves local police in doing ICE's dirty work. They're some of the leading critics because they know that when they're perceived to be working for ICE instead of the local community, people are going to be more afraid to pick up the phone and call 911. If you are experiencing an emergency and you're afraid to call 911 because ICE might show up at your doorstep, you are less safe. But when we're talking about cooperating in criminal investigations, there's nothing that stops local police from cooperating with ICE for a criminal investigation. Part of ICE, ICE Homeland Security Investigations, is supposed to be investigating crime.
They've been diverted, more than 90% of them, to doing civil immigration arrests instead. They're going after grandmothers and children and parents of small children instead of going after human traffickers, people who are bringing drugs into our community. So I know that law enforcement wants to make our community safer. I know they put their lives on the line to do so, but working for ICE doesn't help them do so. It diverts limited local resources to serving ICE's agenda, which as you mentioned, is already funded at $240 billion of federal taxpayer money.
Tom McClintock
I'll now recognize myself for five minutes. I might point out that according to Shalini Thakur's mother, she repeatedly called 911 over and over again asking for help, and it was refused her because of these sanctuary laws. And perhaps the ranking member didn't hear me, the majority leader who schedules bills for the floor has committed that the anti-sanctuary measure will be considered before the end of this session. He's authorized me to make that statement publicly, and I do so again. Perhaps the gentlelady's heard me this time.
Sheriff Akshar, the Democrats keep telling us that enforcing our immigration laws makes us less safe, not more safe. As a professional law enforcement officer, what is your opinion?
Frederick Akshar
I think it makes us less safe. I mean, the reality is is that under the prior administration, 10 million undocumented and unvetted people entered this country. And when we don't work together as law enforcement professionals, regardless again of the uniform we wear, we don't communicate effectively, I think it makes us less safe. And, you know, on the heels of the 25th anniversary of 9/11, I think you can draw that distinction from that very tragic event that took place in this country. You had a time in this country in which law enforcement wasn't communicating effectively with each other, and you had that tragedy.
And my fear is is that we are creating again another system in this country in which some states, like my state in New York, are precluding us from cooperating and working with our federal law enforcement partners.
Tom McClintock
Now, the Democrats tell us that they really believe in protecting the American people by removing criminal illegals. But it seems to me that claim is belied by their own sanctuary laws. Those laws don't protect the general illegal alien population, they specifically protect illegal aliens who have committed other crimes, who are in custody for committing those crimes, and can be securely and safely removed once they face justice. Isn't the whole purpose of these sanctuary laws to release illegal aliens who've been arrested for other crimes while illegally in this country?
Frederick Akshar
That is what we'll have to do now thanks to local cops, local crimes.
Tom McClintock
So that's the whole point of these sanctuary laws is to protect criminal illegal aliens, so the crocodile tears for all of the carnage that they have deliberately caused is simply a bald-faced lie. You know, the Democrats tell us that no one's above the law, unless of course they've violated our immigration laws, in which case we ought to leave them alone, unless they violate other laws, but when they violate the other laws, they also should not be deported, but instead be released back into our communities. Again, the whole point of their sanctuary laws. What's your opinion?
Frederick Akshar
I think that was one of the greatest challenge and the frustration amongst elected sheriffs in New York was, you know, the posture of the governor and the New York the Democrat-led legislature: follow our laws, don't follow the laws of the federal government, creating this, you know, creating chaos by way of passing local cops, local crimes. So I think that's what much of the frustration is rooted in by the plaintiffs in our particular case.
Tom McClintock
That's the old doctrine of nullification that we all thought had died with the Confederacy. The Democrats have resurrected it in our time and it's wreaking havoc on law enforcement, would you agree?
Indeed.
Tom McClintock
Mr. Varfolomeev, our ranking member in her opening remarks told us once again that enforcing our immigration laws is anti-immigrant. Now, you yourself are a legal immigrant to our country. You've obeyed all of our laws, you did everything that was asked of you.
Well, you can contest it, but the record's pretty clear.
Pramila Jayapal
The record is clear and I didn't say it. I don't know if I need to challenge that on the record to correct it.
Speaker 22
Mr. Var, you're not recognized. Mr. Varfolomeev, you believe that enforcing our immigration laws is anti-immigrant?
Anatoli Varfolomeev
Enforcing immigration law is of paramount importance. A country cannot survive without enforcing the laws that are the borders are. And you cannot open the borders to everybody who wants to come to the United States. You look at Europe, you look at other countries. It's impossible.
And I'm surprised that there is a bickering here. As I said, I belong to no political party. But I don't understand the bickering here between the parties when it comes to the safety of the American people. That that shouldn't be a no-brainer. You cannot mix here all those stories about war in Iraq and whatever you said, the billions of dollars.
There are almost 13,000 Mexican criminals in state prisons only in California. Multiplied by $131,000 per year to house, feed, provide medical and other stuff for them. It's billions already per year. And it's wasted. Why doesn't the governor send the bill to Mexico and say, please pay us back?
Or there is an agreement between Mexico and the United States where Mexico is supposed to take those prisoners. It's one thing. And then another thing, don't...
Tom McClintock
I'm afraid my time's expired and I've got to enforce that rule, but thank you again for your testimony. Next is Mr. Nadler.
Jerrold Nadler
Ms. Shah, I was reading your biography and you have a very impressive resume. I see that before coming to the ACLU, you worked at Amnesty International as acting director of Columbia Law School's Human Rights Clinic. So you have a deep understanding of human rights and you've seen a wide variety of human rights violations around the world. And now you work at the ACLU leading their immigration policy work. So let me ask you one question right now.
Is it or is it not true that the rate of crime among immigrants, legal and illegal, is lower than the rate of crime of native-born Americans?
Noreen Shah
Congressman, studies certainly show that. And what we know now is that the the horrific crimes that are are being committed, you know, in our country are being weaponized by this administration, used as a political football to try to scapegoat millions of people who are contributors in our country, who are raising families, many of whom have US citizen kids. And all of those families that are living in fear now of just going to the grocery store, taking their kids to school, none of this leaving those families in fear does not make us any safer.
Jerrold Nadler
Thank you. I think it's fair to say that you have studied the Trump administration's immigration policies as closely as anyone. Given your deep background in human rights and your close examination of immigration policy under the Trump administration, I'd like to give you an opportunity to talk about some of what you've seen, especially during this second Trump presidency. What concerns you the most about President Trump's mass deportation campaign and the impact it's having on our communities?
Noreen Shah
Thank you, Congressman, for the question. In fact, in Florida, the state government built a prison called they called Alligator Alcatraz. This program that I've mentioned, the 287(g) program, which uses local police to work for ICE, has expanded in ways that Congress never intended when it passed the law authorizing it.
And they asserted they were doing so on the basis of 287(g) authority, something that had never happened before and that had no legal basis. Alligator Alcatraz, we now know, because of documentation by Amnesty International and subsequent investigations, was a site of horrific horrors. People held in small cages, so-called calming spaces, chained, according to Amnesty International, to those cages. People kept in horrific conditions, only allowed to shower a few times a week in showers that had small bugs crawling all over them. The scenes that we have seen in this country in immigration detention sites shock the conscience.
They remind me of the kind of horrors that I've seen in documenting human rights abuses around the world. The importation of things like shock gloves, gloves to deliver pain to people while leaving no visible mark, remind me of when I interviewed police in India and they told me about shocking people's feet with electric batons. This has no place in our country. I am proud to be a part of this country, to be representing an organization that's fighting to make ours a more perfect union. But every day we are hearing stories that show us that is not happening.
One reported just this morning by the New Republic of two US citizen boys intending to enlist in the Marines. They stopped to photograph, record when ICE was arresting parents outside of a school in San Antonio. ICE then accosted them and reportedly beat them, and they are questioning their decision to go enlist in the Marines.
Speaker 27
Thank you. Under Republican control, Congress has supercharged the administration's policies with hundreds of billions of dollars and no guardrails or oversight. Can you talk a little about Congress's role in enabling the Trump administration's out-of-control immigration policies?
Noreen Shah
Congress has injected $240 billion into our immigration agencies, making their budgets bigger than most militaries in the entire world. Let me tell you, Congressman, a few of the things that they have done with that money, a few cases that the ACLU has documented. In California, agents beat, pepper-sprayed, and arrested a US citizen recording his father's arrest at their workplace. In Chicago, agents grabbed a protester on a public sidewalk by the throat and body-slammed him to the ground. In Hyattsville, Maryland, agents pinned a man in a busy intersection, pressing a knee against his neck.
One agent dropped his gun. After scrambling to retrieve it, he pointed it at the crowd. In Simi Valley, California, agents detained a US citizen born there outside his job at a roofing and building supply company. Agents left their SUV in a driveway when they grabbed him, and that SUV rolled forward. An agent chased after it.
It struck a tree and shattered a side mirror. This doesn't just show the cruelty and I think the violence that many of us are familiar with. It shows the recklessness, the lack of forethought. And that, I think, is because this administration's engaged in a hiring spree, hiring people who should not be entrusted with lethal force, who wouldn't meet the standards of a professional law enforcement agency. And it's told them to go out there and arrest as many people as possible.
Speaker 26
The gentleman's time has expired. Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back.
Chip Roy
Thank the chairman. Thank the witnesses for being here. Ms. Carter, Mr. Bartholomew, first of all, just my prayers and condolences for what you've had to go through and my apologies to you, my apologies for the failure of your government to protect you and yours. There's no other way to put it. That's just simply the case.
And the colleagues on the other side of the dais know this, and their preferred witness knows this, that the government, whose first responsibility is to secure the blessings of liberty, to secure our nation, utterly failed to do that. And I apologize. Some of us are doing the best we can. Mr. Bartholomew, you talked about the bickering, and I hear you.
And people get tired of the political back and forth. But we have choices we have to make. And we have to make choices on policies that will make a difference. And my colleagues on the other side of the aisle utterly refuse to want to take a stand to secure our nation from those that are doing us harm. Ms. Carter, should the individual who was here, who killed your son and daughter-in-law, should that individual have been here?
Absolutely not. Should that person have had a commercial driver's license? Absolutely not. One point I would like to make.
Yes, ma'am, please.
Patty Carter
He either did not have the training that a commercial truck driver needs to respond to a breakdown, or he chose not to do it. And the only way to get that answer is through trial because he's not speaking to anyone now. But I do find it at least interesting the number of illegal immigrants that got commercial truck driving licensing. We're playing Russian roulette with our freeways.
Chip Roy
So I want to flesh that out just a little bit. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle like to minimize the problem that was created with a massive flood of humanity into the country and then the difficulty of managing that. They just kind of blithely ignore all the consequences of that choice. And do you agree with me that that was a choice?
Absolutely.
Chip Roy
A choice to abuse asylum and parole laws, to flood our country with literally millions of people in a short span, created an environment where this could even occur. Is that fair?
Absolutely, it is a choice.
Chip Roy
Mr. Bartholomew, do you agree that that is an accurate description of what occurred, that the laws were interpreted a way, I think wrongly and unlawfully, to release people into the United States under parole and asylum and catch and release, that had flooded the zone with people who then ultimately were dangerous in criminal form, or dangerous in competency, or lying, or fraud, and using commercial driver's license administered and given and granted by states like California, but frankly all across the country, in ways that resulted in the death of your loved ones, and Mr. Bartholomew, your loved ones, and do you agree that that was a cause of that situation?
Anatoli Varfolomeev
I do, I do agree. And I know how the state of California operates now. The criminal that killed our children was released after three and a half years because there are credits in California prison system. One of the credits that minimized his stay in prison was Alcoholics Anonymous. They don't drink in prison as far as I know.
So it's a joke. The whole California debacle is a joke with this governor. And when talking about the billion dollars to ICE, there are billion dollars lost in California to provide all the benefits to illegal immigrants. I was forced to retire. I went to home to health services to get medical because I'm not working anymore.
I cannot. I was denied after paying all those years taxes and everything because my social security income was seventy dollars more. And in front of me there were two twenty-five, twenty-seven year old, a couple, they just climbed across the border and they were given medical insurance just in front of me.
Chip Roy
So Mr. Bartholomew, and I'm going to running out of time here, I just want to be clear.
This goes much deeper, much deeper than just sanctuary cities and just the issues that we're talking about here. This goes to the heart of bringing people in in mass, putting them on our benefits, our tax dollars, endangering our citizens, creating an environment where they are given and granted commercial driver's licenses or otherwise given licenses, drinking and driving, and resulting in the death of loved ones of American citizens who bought and paid for this country. Thank you for your service. And I'm sorry to get to you, Sheriff. And that is what is occurring.
Thanks to all the law enforcement. We have your back. And we're sorry that you're endangered with the policies of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle. I yield back.
Gentleman's time has expired. Ms. Scanlon.
Mary Gay Scanlon
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I am so sorry that the parents here today have had to relive the trauma of their children's deaths for this hearing. I don't think anyone with a heart could be unmoved by your suffering. And and I'm sorry that you've had to go through that and that you've had to relive it for this hearing. As Ms. Carter suggested, it is unconscionable that their deaths should be used as political footballs.
And I'm sorry for that. You know, my Republican colleagues are running this hearing for a record fifth time, not because they have new evidence or research or legislation to discuss about sanctuary cities, but because they have nothing else to say for themselves. They keep returning to the tactics that brought them into office by campaigning on fear and making phony pledges to detain and deport the worst of the worst. But we now have almost two years of proof that that's not what they're doing. The administration is picking up au pairs and construction workers, spending our tax dollars to invade cities and terrorize our communities, using camera crews to make themselves look tough or like comic book heroes, and posting AI slop and disinformation to tell lies about our immigrant neighbors and about the victims of rogue federal agents.
So, you know, it's shameful the lengths to which they're willing to go to politicize your suffering without offering solutions. We would prefer to be addressing legislation that would fix our broken immigration system, provide certainty about the paths to citizenship, address the fact that we have years-long backlogs before people can get rulings. I don't support putting Americans' hard-earned money into private prison companies or public prisons for people who are not convicted of any crime. And I think we need to do better. But I would like to yield the remainder of my time to Mr. Goldman from New York.
Daniel Goldman
Thank you very much. And I echo Ms. Scanlon's comments to the families of victims. Absolutely horrific stories. And I know your grief is revived, if nothing else, by this hearing. Sheriff Axar, you said in your opening statement that you go to work every day to protect victims and their families like these witnesses next to you.
Is that right?
Speaker 32
And part of that responsibility is to work with victims' families to investigate the crimes, like the murders that their loved ones suffered, right?
Speaker 33
In fact, in your opening statement, you said you your job, that every day you wake up to stand up for families whose children have been murdered. Is that correct?
Daniel Goldman
Now, in the spring of 2015, you had sexual relations with a woman named Mirella Masciarelli at the Turning Stone Resort Casino, correct?
Only a degenerate.
Daniel Goldman
Okay. Well, you previously, Sheriff Axar, you previously acknowledged, quote, having a brief consensual relationship with Ms. Masciarelli. What is who is Ms. Masciarelli?
How did you meet her?
Frederick Akshar
You really should be ashamed of yourself to bring something like this up at a hearing like this.
Speaker 34
Well, sir, I think it's very relevant to your credibility because Ms. Masciarella was the mother of a murder victim, correct?
You're a degenerate.
Speaker 30
And you supervised that case when you were a captain in the same sheriff's office that you now run, correct?
You're a degenerate.
Speaker 30
All right. Well, you're not going to answer the questions, but all of this is part of the public record. And in fact, the victim, the perpetrator, the defendant was convicted in 2014 and you testified surrounding that first trial. You then got intoxicated with Ms. Masciarella in 2015, about two years after this occurred, acknowledged, admitted yourself having sexual relations with her. And then this was two years later, the case was overturned on appeal and it had to be retried, correct?
Frederick Akshar
I'm sorry to the Angel families that are here that you have to listen to Mr. Goldman do Governor Hochul's bidding.
Speaker 30
Well, you know what, sir, I am sorry, I am sorry as well that my Republican colleagues have brought you here to try to represent law enforcement as somebody who stands up for the families of victims like this. And yet you would prey and take advantage of a woman who says that the sexual relations you had was not consensual.
Governor Hochul will be proud of you.
Tom McClintock
Sheriff Akshar, I want to apologize on behalf of the committee for that obvious smear attempt. I can say that the gentleman from New York has lived now, has now lived down to all of my expectations. I now recognize Mr. Knott.
Jerrold Nadler
Credibility doesn't matter, Mr. Chairman? I think your statements are completely improper. Mr. Goldman was quite within his rights to point out public facts that are in the public record.
The time belongs to Mr. Knott.
Speaker 52
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I sit here and yet again we see Angel families who are bravely before this committee hoping for change, hoping for a nation that secures its borders. And the cost to you and your families is immeasurable. And when I hear my colleagues express fake sympathy for the immigration system that they have built and they have protected, they blew up our borders. They have welcomed people from around the world into our country, many of whom want to do harm to our country, and they refuse to change.
And I know that many of the stats that have been put forward, like immigrants commit fewer crimes than Americans, those are derived off of biased studies. As a former prosecutor myself, I know that there are millions of illegal immigrants that we do not know who they are, where they come from, or what they're doing. But when they come into law enforcement, vast criminal activity is uncovered. So this idea that we are welcoming in only the best, only the brightest, only contributors to society is a lie, and the left knows this. Ms. Carter, I want to talk to you briefly about your family.
Do you know anything about the illegal immigrant who crossed over into the United States illegally?
Who is he?
Speaker 53
I know that he has a wife and two children in India waiting for him and...
Turn your mic on, please.
When did he come to the country?
And then what happened after that?
They let him go.
Yeah.
Patty Carter
California, so he could get a driver's license and and work at his my understanding is his brother owned a a trucking company. Yeah. So it was his it it appeared to be his intent from the moment he entered the country to drive an 18-wheeler.
Patty Carter
What happened after that? California set him loose on the other 49 states that had no say into whether or not he got a driver's license.
And then where you where do you live?
Patty Carter
I live in Springfield, Arizona, my son Oregon, sorry, Springfield, Oregon, my son and daughter-in-law were coming back from their separate reception in in Jenny's hometown.
Patty Carter
Oh, they got married in Portland and had one reception in our hometown and then another in Jenny's hometown so they could be celebrated.
Patty Carter
Driving back from a their second reception with everything Jenny owned in that own owned in her in the life in that car including her cat Bert, Mr. Kumar jackknifed his tractor trailer across the road and for whatever reason chose not to use the cones, flares, or even warning lights that would have lit the cab up that was crossing both lanes of traffic.
And what happened?
Patty Carter
My son and daughter-in-law came around a corner and did not see that there was a trailer blocking the road and ran into it at highway speeds. They say they were killed instantly.
Patty Carter
16 days after they were married, Billy, Jenny, and her cat Bert were killed. They lost the Russian roulette game our government is forcing them to play.
Patty Carter
He was arrested that night. Yep. And Deschutes County prosecutors brought him in front of a a grand jury that increased the charges from what they were at the crime scene.
Patty Carter
No. What happened? His bail was increased twice and then decreased.
And then how did he get released?
I'm we were not aware of the fact that in Oregon being given $500,000 bail which we thought would definitely hold him until trial doesn't mean 500,000, it means 50,000. No surety necessary and when his bond was dropped back down to 250,000, friends got it for him and he was released.
And Oregon is also a sanctuary jurisdiction, is it not?
Yes, it is.
Speaker 52
They compel the release in some ways. See this is this is I don't mean to cut you off, we're running out of time, this is the question for the country to consider: is it worth enforcing our laws to protect just one American family? One party says absolutely. If we have to mass deport the problem that they built, so be it. If it protects one family from having to suffer like you've suffered, I think that is a worthwhile endeavor.
Absolutely.
Speaker 37
They are still defending it. Not one of them will say if you're here illegally, get out.
Patty Carter
We allowed 10 million people in under Biden. How is there a different suggestion as to how to process them other than the same way they came into the country, en masse leaving?
Speaker 52
We let far more than 10 million in, ma'am. That's just the accounted number. And I'm sorry for your suffering, I'm sorry on behalf of the government, we are working to try to fix it. Unfortunately for the country, the Democrats remain as committed as they have ever been to open borders. Thank you for being here.
Patty Carter
I feel like I have to say as a lifelong Democrat, I am ashamed of what my party is doing.
Speaker 51
Well they don't care. They don't. Thank you, ma'am. The gentleman's time has expired.
Summer Lee
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is um this is only been my second subcommittee hearing on this committee and I this is our I think our second time talking about sanctuary cities and I know that there have been more before I came.
And I don't think that that is an inherent problem, but I do think that the rhetoric and the actions of the Republican Party doesn't always match. And I think that that's problematic. Because I think that there are important things that we can discuss. There are important truths that we can deal with. And then there are also intentions and language and rhetoric that is used to inflame hatred, division, attempts to demonize entire people because of who they are.
And right now Republicans are obsessed with forcing our cities and our states to get in line with their cruel immigration agenda. When communities won't sign their 287g agreements, all of a sudden they want federal oversight. Republicans keep dragging us in for this same hearing over and over again and ignoring the real harm these immigration policies are causing. Just last week in Pittsburgh, ICE was in our communities, interfering with a reputable local business and terrorizing these people. ICE makes it harder for the community to do anything, to live their lives.
Pittsburgh isn't alone. ICE arrested nearly 50,000 people in July alone, the highest total since Trump took office. All of those people are not anything that they are accusing entire races, nationalities, ethnicities of people to be. These folks are then held in detention centers with some of the worst conditions imaginable. Moshannon Detention Center is in my home Commonwealth, and it has reports of toxic water, rotten and inedible food.
When I visited last summer, I was able to speak to some of the detainees and they talked to me about a lack or poor healthcare, especially for pregnant women. Pregnant women. At least 57 people have died in ICE custody since Trump took office. Three of those folks were from Moshannon. When ICE is detaining pregnant women and failing to give basic medical care, it makes sense why some local governments don't want to spend their time and their resources helping ICE to detain vulnerable people.
Ms. Shaw, does a county with a 287g agreement have the ability to stop ICE from detaining those vulnerable people?
Noreen Shah
A county that is participating in the 287g program is handing people, our neighbors and our loved ones, especially if those people have not even been charged with a crime, they've just been stopped in a traffic stop or they haven't been convicted of a crime, it's handing those people who are our neighbors and our loved ones into detention sites where they are at risk of losing their lives and where they are also at risk of severe medical neglect and harm.
Summer Lee
And many have been, and there have been many reports of it. ICE has been given billions so far from Republicans this Congress, yet these detention centers are in horrific conditions. Since 2022, local emergency services near Moshannon have had to respond to more than 100 emergency calls involving drugs, assault, rape, sexual assault, and death. Moshannon should have never been opened as an ICE detention center in the first place after it was shut down as a private prison. But Clearfield County was promised that opening the detention center would benefit their economy.
Those promises never were fulfilled. Ms. Shaw, this isn't just the case of Clearfield County, cities with high levels of ICE enforcement are losing jobs and having trouble building new homes and driving down prices. Why is that?
Noreen Shah
Mass deportations are actually bad for all Americans. It's the simple reason that when people are afraid to leave their homes, it means that our businesses suffer. And there's study after study showing that revenues go down when people can't actually go out shopping, can't go to restaurants because ICE is invading those communities and working with local police to blatantly racially profile people. It makes people stop showing up.
Summer Lee
So it feels like the only group that really benefits from this mass immigration enforcement and detention are corporations like GEO Group, who run Moshannon and other detention centers, and of course politicians who are able to use fear to win elections. ICE is looking to give GEO Group a new 10-year contract to run Moshannon. They're basically rewarding a corporation with a long record of failures and abuses. GEO Group is profiting off of American taxpayers' money and then holding people in inhumane conditions. Just last month, in their quarterly earnings call, GEO Group reported a 63% increase to their net income.
They also bought back 1.6 million stock shares. There shouldn't be stock buybacks, period. And there definitely shouldn't be stock buybacks when you're not providing proper food or water and healthcare to your detainees.
There shouldn't be earnings calls for human detention. Next week, Clearfield County is holding a vote on whether or not to extend their contract with ICE for the Moshannon Detention Center. I urge commissioners to end this contract. The people detained in Moshannon should all be screened individually for release, especially since we know from ICE's own records that most of these people don't pose a threat to public safety and are long-term residents with strong family and community ties. I yield back.
Speaker 61
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would ask Mrs. Carter, thank you for being here. I know it must be incredibly hard to be here. I am wondering if you can tell us what you've learned about how this driver was able to obtain a commercial driver's license and what changes you believe are necessary to prevent someone who is not legally eligible from operating an 18-wheeler.
Patty Carter
I have more questions than answers when it comes to how Mr. Kumar got his commercial driver's license. He does not speak, read, or write English or Spanish, and those are the only languages that test is given in in California. Since Mr. Kumar does not speak English, he has not spoken with the officers that arrested him about anything, really. He requires a translator, he required a translator in immigration court, so my understanding is that he would need a translator to answer those questions, and he thus far has not, for whatever reason. I do know that no other state outside of California was given a say in whether or not this man, who somehow got a commercial driver's license, would be on their roads.
I have also learned that in Oregon, if the prosecutor tries to coordinate with ICE, that could mean that the charges are immediately dropped. They're tying our hands. Our sanctuary laws are not protecting the American citizens that elected the officials. They're protecting people who don't have a right to vote yet. And I keep hearing how many people have been killed by ICE.
Does anybody know how many people, how many American citizens have been killed by illegal immigrants that should not have been here in the first place if our federal laws were respected? Because I haven't been able to find that number.
Speaker 61
Mrs. Carter, I've introduced legislation that would require E-Verify of anyone who attempts to get a CDL. I would encourage this committee and the House and the Senate to pass that legislation. I come from Arizona, we have actually had E-Verify for 30 years.
It has worked pretty well. And it is not... we always hear, "Oh, it's unfair and it will impact the economy." It hasn't. It's actually facilitated and I believe would save lives if we did that. So, I please accept my condolences for this tragedy, senseless, senseless tragedy.
Patty Carter
People keep mentioning that we're not deporting the worst of the worst, that we're deporting people who don't have criminal records. Mr. Kumar did not have a criminal record before Billy and Jenny were killed. He was supposed to keep a logbook. He was supposed to have another driver in the cab with him. The first time he got caught not doing those things was the night he killed my son and daughter-in-law.
We are... we're rolling the dice with our children rather than say follow the federal law and apply to immigrate into the US from your country of origin. Why do they have to apply inside our borders, putting our children at risk?
Speaker 61
Thank you for being here and thank you for your testimony. And I appreciate Mr. Bartholomew, thank you for being here. And your daughter was killed by a twice-deported illegal alien who had a lengthy criminal history and had returned to California after being removed from the country. He was driving drunk, was high on drugs, driving at nearly 100 miles per hour when he caused the crash that killed Anya and her friend Nikolai. What happened to that individual?
Anatoli Varfolomeev
He was arrested on the shoulder. He was treated in a Rice Medical Clinic, University Clinic, at our taxpayers' money, Nikolai's and Anya's taxes that they paid from their work as students. Then he was sentenced to 10 plus 10 years in state prison to be served concurrently, which I don't understand why because... well, I don't understand.
Gentleman's time has expired.
Quickly finish.
Anatoli Varfolomeev
Because that crime is not violent crime, is not considered violent crime in the state of California. And then he was released and fortunately he was picked by ICE and transferred to federal authorities and he was sentenced to additional 46 months. And he is in a federal prison now.
Proceed.
Speaker 61
Thank you. This is 8 USC 1373, communication between government agencies and the Immigration and Naturalization Service. S. 1357, powers of immigration officers and employees. 8 US Code Section 1226, apprehension and detention of aliens. 18 US Code Section 111, assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain officers or employees.
8 USC 1227, deportable aliens. 8 USC 1225. And then Rogue Sheriffs Revolt Against New York Law Ending ICE Partnerships.
Speaker 58
Without objection, all admitted. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from North Carolina.
Speaker 62
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony and to the parents here, I want you to know that I am profoundly sorry for your loss.
Deborah Ross
You deserve justice, your children deserve that justice. And our law enforcement should be going after criminals who cause the death of our citizens. No question about it. One of the problems that is going on right now with ICE enforcement is that ICE is going after farmworkers, factory workers, children, grandmothers, spouses of US citizens who show up for their immigration check-in appointments and frequently immigrants with legal status and work authorizations as opposed to people who aren't here. There was a tragic story from a woman in my district.
She had been here for 27 years legally. She went home to a funeral, contracted COVID there and so she went back to India for about six months because she was sick. She came back here. She was went to an appointment that she didn't even shouldn't have had to go to because she had been here legally for more than 20 years, teacher in the public schools and they ICE picked her up. And they held her in a detention facility.
She has diabetes. She had no medication. She was here legally. ICE should be going after exactly the people who killed your children. That is what they should be doing.
But we're in a situation right now where my office is hearing from people who are showing up to do things the right way, exactly what you're talking about Mrs. Carter, who actually had papers, who have never committed a crime and our tax dollars are going to pay for this. And then the other thing that we're seeing and we've seen it in my district, they picked up somebody who was a US citizen, took his wallet, threw it on the floor, created chaos at the worksite he was at. So we need an immigration system and a law enforcement system that really does pick up people who shouldn't be here who are doing the wrong things. But I'm just perplexed as to why a 59-year-old grandmother was picked up and and made to go through all of this and our tax dollars were paying for it. Ms. Shaw, do do you know why this is happening?
Noreen Shah
Congresswoman, people in our communities shouldn't have to live in fear of ICE and the law enforcement who are working with them taking them from their communities for no reason other than to drive up the numbers. That is what is happening here. The administration has told ICE you've got to arrest people according to a quota, as many as 2,000 people a day. The ambition from the White House is to arrest 100 million people and deport them. That's nearly a third of the country.
So of course they have big quotas. And that means that they're getting as many people as possible regardless of who they are.
Deborah Ross
So but I have a question. They're detaining the these other people but then when they pick up somebody with criminal charges they deport them before they can be brought to justice. Why is that happening?
Speaker 63
Unfortunately they don't seem to have much regard for our justice system.
Noreen Shah
Part of what sanctuary laws do, actually, is make sure that when victims are seeking justice through our criminal justice system, the perpetrators of violent crimes are there to go through it, not just taken away to be deported to another country and potentially even commit crimes in that other country against more families. So we actually need to make sure that our justice system is working to ensure that victims get access to justice. We don't see that commitment from this administration. In fact, what we have seen, and Sarah Pierce from Third Way testified before this committee a few weeks ago and said that they're actually taking away law enforcement grants to law enforcement agencies around the country, to crime victim assistance organizations around the country. They are not investing in public safety, they're divesting from public safety.
The chair recognizes the gentleman from Missouri.
Robert Onder
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Shah, it seems that part of your argument is that we need sanctuary jurisdictions so that in those jurisdictions, those illegally present in the country will cooperate with law enforcement in reporting crimes. Is that part of your defense of sanctuary jurisdictions?
Noreen Shah
I want everybody to be able to pick up the phone and call 911, including the US citizen kids who live with... Okay.
Robert Onder
Well, US citizen kids are not the problem. But you want... you want an illegal alien to be able to pick up the phone and report a crime. Fair enough. What about those who are convicted of crimes in our country? Should they be deported?
Noreen Shah
Under our immigration laws, ICE can move to deport them, and there's nothing that's stopping them from doing so.
Robert Onder
Okay. So you need the illegal alien who, by the way, is already illegally in the country, they need to commit a crime, they need to be convicted of the crime, and only then can we remove those illegal aliens in the country.
Noreen Shah
Our immigration laws allow the government to seek removal in many different circumstances, certainly if someone had committed a crime of moral turpitude, had multiple criminal convictions, ICE can seek to deport those individuals. ICE under this administration is just doing traffic stops to pick up anybody. They're blatantly racially profiling.
Robert Onder
Mrs. Carter, what happened to the illegal alien who killed... who killed your child?
Patty Carter
He was arrested the night of the injury, the night of the crash, and he was immediately taken to county jail since he had no injuries, he didn't need to go to a hospital first. He made bail and was released.
Speaker 73
I asked why are you giving somebody who is here illegally bail? Illegally in the country, and one standard for denying bail, of course, is flight risk.
Speaker 72
They cannot take into consideration his legal status when it comes to is he a risk for flight in your state.
Patty Carter
I was not told that them asking for 500,000 bond in Oregon doesn't mean 500,000. His bail was reduced and he was able to make it. It means 50, just 50, no surety. So he was able to raise it, like crowdfunded style.
Patty Carter
He was released and 20 days later picked up by ICE. He is currently being held in Tacoma, Washington.
Okay. Okay.
Robert Onder
Ms. Shah, should the illegal alien who victimized Mrs. Carter's family, should he be deported?
Noreen Shah
He should be prosecuted. He should be held accountable, and we need to know why he was granted a commercial driver's license. That needs to come out in trial. We need to understand what is going on in the state of California.
Robert Onder
And why was he granted bail? Is it, do you defend that policy that someone illegally in the country who committed, who's arrested for a horrible crime, why should be granted bail?
Noreen Shah
A judge made a decision about whether to grant bail. I can't, I don't know all the factors, but what I hear you saying about Oregon's sanctuary policies is that they're not taking...
Robert Onder
Well, let me ask you then this. Should any illegal alien who has not committed a crime, should any of them be deported? Should they all stay here, Ms. Shah?
Noreen Shah
Our immigration laws provide broad authority for ICE to seek removal of individuals.
Robert Onder
Oh, really? In sanctuary jurisdictions? Oh, really, in sanctuary jurisdictions, when an illegal alien is being released from county jail, city jail, they honor ICE detainers consistently and call ICE and say we're about to release this illegal alien? That's what happens?
Noreen Shah
Congressman, in every jurisdiction in this country, when you book someone into local custody, you take their fingerprints. Those fingerprints are transmitted to the federal government.
Robert Onder
Before you release them into the community, do they call ICE? Because I've had testimony here in front of this committee from officials of some jurisdictions they say they don't. You're saying there's no such thing as a sanctuary jurisdiction, essentially.
Noreen Shah
No, Congressman, I'm saying actually what a lot of law enforcement leaders have said, and I just want to quote Ulster County Sheriff Juan Figueroa, who's the head of the New York Sheriffs' Association, although he said this in his personal capacity. He said, sheriffs have always prioritized community safety. Sorry.
Speaker 67
Well, prioritizing community safety means releasing illegal aliens into the community, which is wrong and dangerous. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Noreen Shah
We do not need 287(g) agreements or ICE collaboration to do that work. We need community trust, strong investigations, and prosecutions through the criminal justice system.
Glenn Grothman
Thank you. There seems to be a little bit of confusion in the discussion right now. Everybody I talk to when I talk to people back home, regardless of their political feeling, believes we should have an immigration law. Okay, and right now in this country, we have an immigration law. It may have changed recently, but until very recently, we swear in about 800,000 new citizens from around the world every year.
In other words, it's not impossible to get here. Okay, unfortunately, the Biden administration, nobody knows for sure, let in about 8 million people during their four-year term, and not to mention there were probably tens of millions of people let in by other presidents prior to that. If you are going to have an immigration law, and if it is ignored by the administration to the degree to which they let 8 million people who shouldn't be here come in in a four-year period, the only explanation for that is the Biden administration felt that it would be such a monumental task to remove those people that it would never happen. So obviously ICE was dealt a very difficult task and they're trying to perform that task. It is pointless to have an immigration law if you just say we're going to remove people who broke the law and the other 90% of the people or whatever, 95% who come here, they got in here so they get to stay.
And that's where, to me, largely the problem stems.
We have some states who are kind of declaring war on our own country, saying if you come here and don't break the law, and sometimes if you break the law as well, but for sure if you don't break the law, we're going to let you stay forever, which is like no law at all. I'd like to ask Sheriff Akshar, do you believe that if people come here and should not be here, lie on the asylum application or whatever, that they should be removed, or do you believe, like apparently some people do, including people in Congress, once you get across the Rio Grande, you get to stay here as long as you don't break the law?
Frederick Akshar
I think, Congressman, that there is a set of rules that Congress has enacted and people should follow them. I think people should be deported. There's a proper way to come into this country, and if you don't follow the rules, you should be deported.
Speaker 55
Right. Ms. Carter, do you feel that people should be deported if they come here illegally, even if they're not breaking the law?
Patty Carter
Absolutely. I think we are taking risks with our citizenry to give people who are not American citizens an advantage, a chance to come here. Great, come legally. If you didn't come legally, how can we expect someone who didn't respect our immigration laws to respect other laws?
Glenn Grothman
Absolutely. Not to mention, if they're here legally, why do we not expect another 10 or 20 million people from around the world to come here and just say if you don't, if you aren't caught breaking a law, you get to stay here for good? Or even if you're a law-abiding, hard-working person, we would quickly get, if the American law was anybody can come here from around the globe and if you don't break the law, you get to stay here forever, I'm sure if that was the stated goal or stated law of the United States, in the next 10 years we could easily get another 30 or 40 million or 50 million people here. That should be obvious. And anybody who says we're only going to kick out the people who we catch breaking a law is, in essence, wants to destroy the United States of America, or make it wildly different as it would be if we let in the next four years, say, another 20 or 30 million people in this country.
That should be obvious. Nevertheless, there are members of Congress who apparently believe, including a few crazy Republicans, I might add, who apparently believe that anybody who comes here and doesn't break the law gets to stay for good, right? And particularly when you have administrations like the past one that doesn't even pretend to try to prevent people coming here, you are really changing America. Mr. Varfolomeev, do you want to comment on this?
Anatoli Varfolomeev
Well, I agree. That's the definition of the word illegal. That means you broke the law already.
Glenn Grothman
Absolutely. That's it. Absolutely. It is so obvious to the three of you. Nevertheless, and I can only think their goal is to permanently change America, we have almost all members of the minority and a not tiny member of the majority who apparently think the law should be once you come here, if you aren't breaking another law, you get to stay here.
That would be the end of the United States of America. So I'm, I'd like to thank you for responding to my question and hope Americans realize that we have no country if the law is anybody can come here and stay here if you don't commit a felony or whatever. Thank you very much.
Robert Onder
That concludes today's hearing. We thank our witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee today. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witness or additional materials for the record. Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.