“Missing and Murdered Indigenous People: Strengthening Public Safety in Tribal Communities”
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House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance U.S. House of Representatives
Follow its sittings
Andy Biggs
Despite progress, jurisdictional complexity still makes these crimes difficult to investigate and prosecute. Effective public safety requires coordination. Law enforcement agencies must be able to communicate, share information, access relevant databases, and work across jurisdictional lines so those lines never become barriers to justice. There is much more work we need to do, and I look forward today to hearing from our witnesses about what is working, where gaps remain, what Congress and federal law enforcement can do to strengthen public safety and improve outcomes for tribal communities. I appreciate again our witnesses for being here and look forward to your testimony.
I now recognize the gentlelady from Georgia, Ms. McBath, for an opening statement.
Lucy McBath
Thank you so much, Chairman Biggs. I am grateful to have the opportunity to discuss the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous people, or as we will call it today, MMIP. And that is exactly what it is. It is a crisis. Despite the great strides that we have made in the last five years to address violent crime, domestic violence still plagues our country.
In fact, according to a recent FBI report, violent crime within domestic relationships has consistently increased in recent years. The numbers grow even more alarming for indigenous Americans. There are many factors that contribute to the high victimization rate among indigenous women and our inability to address the MMIP crisis. The good news is that we simply are not helpless. In fact, back in 2019, the first Trump administration and Congress took several steps to better address the crisis.
For example, Congress passed and Trump signed into law Savanna's Act and the Not One More Act, two bills aimed at improving the response to the MMIP crisis.
Unfortunately, since Trump stepped back into office, his administration has done nothing but undermine these efforts. Today, our witness will describe the tragic effects of the Trump administration's unexpected cuts to millions in critical grant funding for tribal communities and tribal supporting organizations. According to a study conducted by the Urban Indian Health Institute, a significant number of tribes and organizations serving native survivors of violence rely heavily on federal funding for more than half of their budget. And as a result of the cuts, 44% of those organizations report that they will have to drastically reduce or cut survivor services. That includes safe housing, transportation, court accompaniment, and counseling.
Make no mistake, lives will be lost because of these cuts. For far too long, missing and murdered indigenous people have been ignored. Criminals have taken notice of this seeming indifference and found new ways to exploit and victimize vulnerable indigenous people. In fact, the vast majority, a stunning 96% of indigenous women who are victims of sexual violence, experience that violence at the hands of non-native perpetrators, which has long been an obstacle to justice for these victims. To help address this issue, the 2019 Violence Against Women Act reauthorization expanded the tribal criminal jurisdiction to include non-Indian offenders in case of domestic and dating violence, sexual violence, and stalking against Indian victims when the crimes occur on tribal lands.
During this committee's markup of that legislation, nine Republicans, including the chairman of this subcommittee, voted in favor of an amendment to remove the provision to expand tribal jurisdiction from the underlying bill. Fortunately, the amendment failed. While the version marked up by this committee eventually stalled, the provision to expand tribal jurisdiction was eventually signed into law in 2022. Despite past votes, I hope that this hearing is indicative of a genuine interest in addressing the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous people. Let us all continue to elevate the needs of tribal communities across this country and hold this administration accountable for the countless ways that they continue to fail victims and survivors everywhere.
I want to leave you with the words of a participant from the Urban Indian Health Institute's study, and I quote: "We hope you will stand with us to ensure that the future generations inherit not only the weight of our past, but the strength of our survival and the full support of a nation that honors its trust and treaty responsibilities."
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Andy Biggs
The gentlelady yields back, and I recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Raskin, for his opening statement.
Jamie Raskin
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to our witnesses, and I want to thank the distinguished ranking member of this committee for framing the discussion so well. I just want to add some context. We are now 48 hours away from legislative adjournment of the 119th Congress. So when Thursday comes, this will mark a substantive end to this entire Congress, which has been historically unproductive as the executive branch visits wreckage on so many parts of the country, including Indian Country.
This hearing is long overdue, but it is way too little and it is way too late. The Republican majority has controlled this subcommittee for four years. Why are we only having this hearing now, at the last possible minute, about a problem that's been plaguing Native communities across America for years? As our former colleague Marjorie Taylor Greene says, people are sick and tired of a feckless, useless Republican Party that never does a damn thing. The crisis of missing and murdered indigenous people is not an issue to be politicized and picked up momentarily for electoral purposes.
It deserves not only Congress's fleeting attention, but our serious, intense attention and serious legislative action. This subcommittee has sat passive and silent for nearly two years as the Trump administration has slashed funding to tribal communities and steamrolled their sovereignty. I hope our hearing today will move us to be in a process of taking real action and galvanize the attention of the country. I hope when Congress comes back in November, we will work together to debate legislation that will strengthen tribal law enforcement, surge funding to prevent ongoing violence against indigenous people, and put pressure on the administration to give this crisis the attention it deserves. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Andy Biggs
The gentleman yields back. Without objection, all of the opening statements will be included in the record. We'll now introduce today's witnesses. We'll begin by introducing Ms. Abigail Echo-Hawk. Ms. Echo-Hawk is the executive vice president of the Seattle Indian Health Board and the director of the Urban Indian Health Institute.
She also serves on the Washington State Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and People Task Force. We have Mr. Trent Shores. Mr. Shores is the managing shareholder of the Tulsa office of GableGotwals, an Oklahoma-based law firm. He previously served for nearly 18 years in various roles at the Department of Justice, most recently as the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Oklahoma. Mr. Knudsen, the Honorable Austin Knudsen, is the Attorney General of Montana, a position he has held since 2021.
He previously served in the Montana House of Representatives, including as Speaker and as a county prosecutor. And I'm pleased to introduce from Arizona, my home state, Mr. Myron Lizer, who served as the 10th Vice President of the Navajo Nation between 2019 and 2023. A small business owner himself, he has been an advocate for Indian entrepreneurship and increasing investment in tribal-owned business. I'm grateful to have all of you here today. We thank you for appearing.
We'll now begin by swearing you in, if each of you would rise, please, and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God? Let the record reflect that the witnesses have all answered in the affirmative. Thank you, please be seated. To all of our witnesses, please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety.
Accordingly, we ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. We'll begin first with Ms. Echo-Hawk. You may begin.
Abigail Echo-Hawk
Thank you, Chairman Biggs and Ranking Member McBath and the members of the committee.
It is an honor to be here. My name is Abigail Echo-Hawk. I'm a citizen of the Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma and the director of the Urban Indian Health Institute. I get a lot of voicemails. I bet you're wondering why that's interesting here.
I get a lot of voicemails that crackle with pain as soon as I pick them up. Whispers of "Abigail, is this you?" "He killed my baby, her bright eyes, her dark skin, and her Dakota eyes looking at me as his bloody fist brutally murdered her." "Abigail, I don't understand why his sentence was so light and why is he back walking on our reservation?" I did my best.
I tried to connect her with resources and services, but as a direct result of the funding cuts that have been happening across the nation, when I got this phone call just a couple of months ago, there was a lack of resources and services and I was directing her to something that didn't exist anymore. The study by my organization titled "Sacred Responsibility" found that 38% of these organizations were reducing the mental health services, 41% of their advocacy services, the things this mother needed as she grieved the death of her baby as her killer continued to walk around the reservation. These services are the essential thing that are needed to ensure the healing of our people. And organizations like mine, the Urban Indian Health Institute, are gathering this data because it's not being done by the federal government. I didn't have any money for this study.
I seem to never have any money for the studies that I do. But yet our 2018 report that I released here at the Capitol standing alongside one of the biggest advocates in Congress, Senator Lisa Murkowski, when we released that report in 2018, brought the very first data ever seen on missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. Why is this happening so late? Why isn't anybody paying attention? Because I get voicemails shaking with anger just a couple weeks ago that said, "Abigail, they won't test the rape kits."
"We've been gathering the rape kits and the feds won't test them and the state won't test them because they're not sure whose jurisdiction it is over these rapes of men, women, children." Rape kits that just sit while they fight over jurisdiction. It is essential for us to enact jurisdictional fix to recognize that tribal criminal jurisdiction over all people who are on the reservation regardless of race or ethnicity. We know that many of our people are victimized by non-Indians and that is a loophole of serial killers, a loophole of serial domestic violence perpetrators, a loophole of serial rapists who move from reservation to reservation, what we call "rez hopping," because they know they can brutalize us with absolutely nothing happen to them because they are taking advantage of the jurisdiction. The Coalition of Large Tribes has offered this incredible fix and I urge you, I urge you, it is essential that our people have safety in our homes and on our reservations and the jurisdictional issues must be addressed.
Another voicemail. Except for this one started with, "Auntie Abigail, is this you?" When I heard that young person's voice shaking on the other side and I recognized somebody who calls me Auntie, it's like I didn't want to listen to the rest of it because I knew what she was going to say because I have lived what she has. I have lived as a six-year-old girl in a bathroom attempting to wipe away the blood running down my legs after a brutal rape. I, like her, was a young girl at the age of nine attempted suicide for the very first time, hanging myself off my bunk bed, hiding the ligature marks, strangulation marks around my neck from my sister who's the only one that noticed.
Because there was no resources or services and when I was brutally raped, what they said was, we don't have the resources, you're an Indian girl on Indian land and I suffered in silence with no resources available. And so, like many of our young people, all of the statistics of the high rates of suicide, I experienced that through my entire childhood. And it wasn't until I accessed the opportunities that our tribal people have in our resources, our services, our victim advocacy centered in our culture, did healing actually begin. Without those I would not be sitting in front of you today answering a call that says Auntie Abigail, it's happening to me too. Because I don't have a lot of answers to give, but I will always pick up the phone.
And I urge every single one of you to take actions that are possible. Look at the BADGES Act, look at the Tribal Parity in Law Enforcement Act, look at the PROTECT Act, which is sitting in committees right now that need markups. We need you to move this forward because I cannot sit with that pain alone and I'm here in front of you today saying you have a responsibility to sit with it too. And it's hard to hear about rape, it's hard to hear about murder, but I tell you it's worse to live it. And without the resources and without you standing with us, we will suffer in silence but I will tell you we will not suffer in silence alone.
I stand here with my not only my ancestors, but every woman, every child, and every person impacted by this crisis not only behind my back but standing in front of me. They are what give me the strength to keep answering those phone calls that sometimes I don't think I can answer anymore. But I will always answer them and you have a responsibility to start to answer them too. Thank you.
Speaker 5
Gentlelady's, the witness's time has expired. Thank you for your testimony. Now recognize Mr. Shores for five minutes.
Trent Shores
Good morning Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the subcommittee, Halito Chim Achukma. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. It's humbling of course to follow Ms. Echo-Hawk and her passionate testimony. We have far too many victims in Indian Country. Certainly the issue of missing and murdered indigenous people is one that is prevalent not just in my home state in Oklahoma but throughout Indian Country in the United States.
I appear before you as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation, as a former United States Attorney and as someone who spent nearly 18 years at the US Department of Justice working on issues just like this one and in fact this very issue. I helped to build the department's first national strategy to address MMIP. And that experience and my experiences in the courtroom and sitting in double-wide trailers in Indian Country taught me an important thing. This is not an issue where good faith is lacking. It's an issue where our follow-through must match our concern.
Families have told us consistently what stands in their way: jurisdictional confusion, information that does not move fast enough, and tribal departments that are stretched too thin. Much of what we need to address these problems does exist today, but more is always better. Our task now is to make sure that the resources available reach the communities and the people that need it most and that it stays there. Let me tell you two quick stories from Indian Country. The first is about what happens when established relationships and the immediate use of national information tools are used to accomplish the core law enforcement purpose of protecting victims, holding accountable offenders.
In Cherokee County, Oklahoma, a Native American man with mental health challenges went missing. Shauna Roach, an investigator with the Cherokee Nation Marshal Service, didn't wait. She immediately used the tools available to her, input the missing man's information into a national crime information database. Soon thereafter she received a phone call from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The man had been found.
This is an example of why access to information is so critical for tribal law enforcement services. That man was found safe over a thousand miles from home. Also this year we had an experience in northeastern Oklahoma where two Cherokee boys went missing. The same process happened, MMIP coordinator Shauna Roach and the Cherokee Nation Marshals input that information and the boys were found in Las Vegas.
They were returned home safely. When you have the tools and you know how to use them, we can have success stories. The second story is critical. It's about the Choctaw Nation and it's about domestic violence review dockets and prevention of domestic violence. It does not let a case end at sentencing.
Our domestic violence review dockets are led by District Judge Amy Pierce at the Choctaw Nation. Victims are given a powerful voice throughout the process and the court's attention to the matter does not end when the case is sentenced. The offender is brought back in. There is strict probation. There are counseling and family and parenting classes.
And what we saw in this last year, 85 offenders went through the program and only three reoffended. Those statistics are remarkable when you look historically and nationwide what recidivism rates are for domestic violence offenders. Every time we can help a victim of domestic violence, we may likely be preventing a future victim of MMIP. Those two stories point to something that I believe has come true in these last 18 years that I've been in this business. No single government can do this alone.
We must work across jurisdictional lines. State, local governments must work with tribal partners, as the federal government must also do its part in upholding the federal trust responsibility. There is no more practical application of the federal trust responsibility than providing public safety in Indian country. Earlier this year, we saw Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond convene his own Missing and Murdered Indigenous Peoples subcommittee. They met all over our state and I can tell you what they found in their published report was many of the same issues that we've been seeing for decades.
Ten years ago, I testified before the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs on this issue and on public safety in Indian country and on Savanna's Act. Tragically, we hear many of the same problems today continue to be experienced by victims in Indian country. All of the recommendations that are contained in my testimony are born from my experience at the Department of Justice as an Office of Tribal Justice Deputy Director, as a frontline prosecutor, as a tribal citizen myself, and as someone today in private practice that continues to work with tribal attorneys general, with victims of crime, and with tribal justice systems. I believe that together we can make a difference in addressing this issue, but we have to have the willpower to carry through with our jurisdictional responsibilities, provision of resources, and a will to act, not just listen. Thank you very much.
I look forward to answering your questions.
Myron Lizer
Yá'át'ééh abiní. Good morning, Mr. Chairman Biggs, Ranking Member McBath, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Myron Lizer. I previously served as Vice President of the Navajo Nation.
I appear today in my personal capacity. I do not speak for the present Navajo Nation government. I speak from the experience of having served our people and having seen the consequences when public safety systems do not work as they should. I do appreciate in his first term in 2019, President Trump signed the executive order on MMIW, which launched Operation Lady Justice and was the first president to deal with this weighty subject matter. The problem of missing and murdered indigenous people is not new.
Congress knows that.
Tribal leaders know that. Families know it better than anyone. Ask the family of Ella Mae Begay. The question before us now, however, should be different. After years of task forces, appropriations, executive actions, federal initiatives, and promises of help and better coordination, why do indigenous people still disappear or die without cases being promptly resolved?
One answer is clear: we have built many programs, perhaps too many, but we have not yet built one continuously accountable system. A serious case on the Navajo Nation may pass through Navajo law enforcement, the FBI, a United States Attorney's office, tribal prosecutors, victim advocates, state and local law enforcement, and multiple information systems. Each may have authority and good people doing difficult work, but every time responsibility changes hands, there is an opportunity for evidence, information, time, or accountability to be lost. And our people. That is where Congress should focus.
The Navajo Nation's experience demonstrates that federal tribal-federal coordination can work. There have been successful investigations and prosecutions, but successful coordination should not depend upon personal relationships. It should be built into the system. When the federal government declines prosecution, the tribal government should receive timely notice and any evidence while tribal prosecution remains possible. A federal declination should not automatically become the end of a case where tribal sovereign still has lawful authority to act.
The Navajo Nation has spent several years building its major crimes capacity specifically to investigate serious matters, including federally declined cases. The same principle applies before a case ever reaches a prosecutor. Evidence must be properly collected, preserved, documented, and transferred. Reports must be completed. Missing person information must be entered into appropriate databases and kept current.
And someone must remain responsible for the case from the first report through the final disposition. Congress should not measure success by how many task forces or how much money is appropriated. Those are inputs. The questions that matter to families are much simpler: was my relative found? Was the case investigated or is it being prosecuted?
If prosecution is declined, why? There must be accountability within tribal systems. Many tribal law enforcement programs operate with substantial federal funding or perform federal law enforcement functions under contracts or compacts. Tribal self-determination is essential, but self-determination and accountability are not opposites. Where federal funds are provided to deliver law enforcement services, there should be accountability to determine whether those services are being provided, whether investigations are timely, whether evidence is properly controlled, and whether deficiencies are corrected.
Likewise, when federal systems fail, when federal law enforcement acts with indifference or fails to act with the fidelity and integrity they purport, they too should be held accountable. I suggest Congress operate on five areas. First, require a formal federal-to-tribal handoff process when serious cases are declined or materially delayed.
Second, establish measurable standards for evidence transfer, case tracking, database entry, interagency communication, and for collaboration on investigations that extend off the reservation. Third, invest directly in tribal investigators, prosecutors, victim advocates, forensics, evidence management, and technology. Doing so could mitigate or eliminate dependence on the FBI by allowing tribal investigators to present appropriate cases directly to the US attorney for prosecution. Fourth, provide tribal governments with greater access to special tribal criminal jurisdiction and BIA special law enforcement commissioners, allowing tribal law enforcement more legal resources to do their jobs effectively. I yield my time.
Speaker 11
Mr. Sylvester, we've granted some extra time to the witnesses, so finish with your fifth.
Myron Lizer
I appreciate that. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And fifth, require meaningful accountability, federal and tribal, for whether the public safety responsibilities being funded are being performed and performed as intended or promised. Families should not have to understand federal Indian law before they can understand what happened to their loved ones' case. They should not have to determine whether the FBI, tribal police, a prosecutor, or another agency is still responsible.
Government should know. The Navajo Nation does not need another promise that the system will coordinate. Our people need a system in which coordination, collaboration, lawful handoff, and accountability are operating requirements. This is the standard by which those who accept responsibility for public safety should be judged. Ahéhee' shike'é dóó shidine'é.
Thank you, my relatives and my people. Additional details are in my full written statement. Thank you very much.
Austin Knudsen
Thank you. Now recognize Attorney General Knudsen.
Chairman Biggs, Ranking Member McBath, members of the subcommittee, as the Attorney General of Montana and a former elected county prosecutor in Indian country, I'm grateful for the committee's attention to the missing and murdered indigenous persons crisis. We're no stranger to it in Montana, as missing indigenous persons accounted for 31% of our reported missing persons cases last year, but make up far less, only 6% roughly of our state population. Montana is also home to eight federally recognized tribes, which creates challenging jurisdictional issues for us as our state battles this issue. I'll start today by providing you with some statistics that helped me get a clear picture of the problem when I was first briefed on the issue as Attorney General, and some of what I have to say is probably going to surprise you. It's a common misconception that only women and girls are going missing.
In 2025, 48% of all people reported missing in Montana were male and 52% were female. In the indigenous community, that data starts to skew, but there is still a large percentage of males that are reported missing. Last year, 40% of the indigenous persons that went missing in Montana were males. Our current mainstream messaging that it's only a problem for females leaves a large population of men and boys effectively ignored and left out of the conversation. I was also surprised and encouraged to find out that the vast majority of those that go missing statewide and in indigenous communities in Montana are found, come home, or are otherwise located.
In fact, last year, our recovery rate in Montana was 99%. And five people reported missing that year, 2025, still remain missing. And while a 99% recovery rate is certainly welcome news, there are still 41 indigenous persons missing today in Montana, 27 of whom have been missing for more than a year. We're doing what we can as a state by leading the way for the rest of the country.
At the Montana Department of Justice, we have a missing persons database that is updated in real time that highlights indigenous persons' cases at the press of a button. We recently launched a public service announcement on TV and radio to raise awareness and remind Montanans to look at the faces, actually look at the faces in our databases and try to help bring us these missing folks home. My agency also administers the Montana Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons Advisory Council, and the state legislature recently enabled that group to receive donations that will help them fund projects to end the crisis. Earlier this year, the council launched a specialty license plate Montanans can purchase when they register their car to also help fund those projects. The council also recommended and the 2025 Montana legislature passed a resolution urging Congress to fully fund public safety and law enforcement in Indian country.
Which brings me to why I'm here today. We need to work together to solve this problem. As State Attorney General, my hands are tied. I have no jurisdiction on tribal land. The Montana legislature can pass all the bills they want, but without action from Congress, we will never see meaningful change.
You have the power to give tribes the authority they need by removing unnecessary and confusing jurisdictional red tape. You can also give states some authority to help. My agents and law enforcement officers can't do anything on tribal lands unless they are asked by a federal agency. That results in wasted time and wasted resources in some cases. For example, the Montana Department of Justice performs sexual and violent offender registry compliance checks in the interest of public safety.
On tribal land, we have no jurisdiction and are required to go in with the US Marshals rather than simply having our own sworn officers do the check. That's unnecessary red tape in the way of our efforts to deter repeat offenders and protect Montana citizens. While we still have a long way to go, we are making progress. Recently, one of my Division of Criminal Investigation agents was cross-deputized federally and will have the authority to lend more immediate support to help solve murders and find missing persons on reservations across the state on a case-by-case basis. I'm also grateful to the Trump administration for opening an FBI field office in Billings, Montana, which is a sign they are dedicating more resources to help address violent crime cases and cases that occur on tribal lands.
Although reservations are sovereign nations exempt from Montana's standard reporting requirements, we have established agreements with seven of our eight reservations. These partnerships improve missing persons reporting so we can find people and bring them home quickly. The missing and murdered indigenous persons crisis has been plaguing our tribal communities for generations. I'm thankful to the Trump administration for taking the issue seriously and to this committee for bringing this discussion to the table today as you continue to explore ways Congress can help solve the problem. I look forward to answering any questions you may have for me.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Andy Biggs
Thank you, Attorney General Knudsen. I now recognize the gentlelady from Florida. That first of all, I'll just say that we've concluded the witnesses' five minutes testimony. Now recognize the gentlelady from from Florida for her five minutes, Ms. Lee.
Laurel Lee
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today. For families who are experiencing the unimaginable of a missing or murdered loved one, every hour matters. And when responsibility is divided amongst tribal, local, state, and federal authorities, we need to make sure that complexity does not become an obstacle to efficient resolution and to justice. So I am so interested in hearing today and speaking with all of you about where our response is working, where it's breaking down, and most importantly, what we can be doing as Congress to make sure that law enforcement has the tools and the resources that they need to resolve these cases effectively.
Mr. Lizer, I'd like to start with you. I represent Florida, and we have tribal communities in Florida. The Department of Justice has worked with both the Seminole and Miccosukee tribes on protocols for responding to missing and murdered indigenous people's cases. From your experience, what should Congress be asking tribal and local law enforcement to make sure that those protocols are actually working, not just on paper, but in real cases in those crucial first few hours after someone goes missing?
Myron Lizer
Thank you for the question. I think it's crucial that communication lines be open back and forth, you know, the families that are affected, their loved ones missing, their heightened sense of emotional state needs to be buoyed by just information, empathetic information and compassionate. And I think that's what's missing from the government outreach. Tribes always beg for meaningful consultation, so with that in mind, I think an exerted effort on compassion and in the outreach. So, and then the communication, 100% communication, no matter what it is.
And I know there's protocols, but when families are hurting and families are trying to find their missing family members, then this is where I think the break happens between government, which seems to be a lot of times cold, but, you know, when empathy is given and compassion, I think this is where we could round a little bit more support and a little bit more understanding.
Laurel Lee
Thank you, and I agree that is such an important part of any sort of criminal case is building those solid relationships with family and approaching these types of investigations in the right way. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter the relevant page of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's 2023 annual workload report into the record.
Without objection.
Laurel Lee
Now, Attorney General Knudsen, I'd like to return to you. Also, Mr. Chairman, where's our clock? Okay, there we go. When you have limited investigative resources and a large number of unresolved cases, talk to us a bit about how you determine which cases get immediate attention and how do you ensure in your office that a missing person's cases involving a woman or a child is treated with the urgency it deserves, even before there may be clear evidence of a violent crime.
Austin Knudsen
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Congresswoman. That's easy in an office like mine because we're a small state. I don't have an army of DCI agents, that's our state division of criminal investigation, it's our state analogue to the FBI. I don't have an army of agents. I've got about a dozen major crimes agents, I've got about a dozen narcotics agents.
So because we are so small, we're able to be nimble. But I come back to specific to this issue, I mean, we just we don't have authority on our reservations where a lot of these cases do originate. There are instances where we have outreach from from the tribal government, they'll ask for our assistance. Candidly, that does not happen often. More often than not, that jurisdiction lies almost completely and solely with the feds.
If you excuse my brevity. Again, I'm heartened that we have a new FBI office getting opened up in Billings. Candidly, as a former prosecutor from Indian country, that was always one of our biggest stumbling blocks was just lack of federal resources, especially in rural Montana.
We didn't have a lot of FBI agents who were in a big hurry to travel to Poplar. So, hopefully with those new resources in Billings in Eastern Montana, that's going to be a big help to us.
Thank you. That insight about what's actually happening on the ground and how we can be helping to provide additional resources is exceptionally helpful to us. So thank you for being here. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Andy Biggs
Gentlelady yields. I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, Ms. McBath, for five minutes.
Lucy McBath
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The 2013 Violence Against Women Act, or we'll call it VAWA, reauthorization, it actually extended tribal criminal jurisdiction further to include non-Indian offenders in cases of domestic and dating violence, sexual violence, and stalking against Indian victims when the conduct occurs actually on tribal lands. The 2022 VAWA reauthorization further expanded criminal jurisdiction over non-Indian offender to tribes, including assault of tribal justice personnel, child violence, obstruction of justice, and sex trafficking. Ms. Echo-Hawk, how has this expansion of jurisdiction helped tribal law enforcement agencies in addressing the MMIP crisis, and how has this expansion of jurisdiction actually fallen short as well?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
The expansion was absolutely essential for us to be able to begin to prosecute individuals. When we look at the state of Alaska, for example, who was finally included into VAWA, we now see two tribes who are implementing and working as hard as they can to implement and be able to do those kinds of prosecutions. However, there has not been enough dedicated resources given to them in order to do that. And they're reliant on working and trying to engage with the state who, not only in Alaska but across the nation, the states also don't always cooperate with them. And so there is a need for further training that comes from the Department of Justice, further training that the state needs to be, have a better understanding of how to work across these communities.
And if we're going to have true fulfillment of our treaty and trust obligations, we need the actual funding, not just what's written on paper that says, okay, go out and do this, but if we don't have the resources to do it, we're building something from the ground up. In order to make those effective, we're going to need it. And so we have to partner with other things that are going on. So for example, we were just asked what is actually working. Operation Not Forgotten by the FBI has been an incredible, incredible resource across Indian Country.
It is going to sunset. That means they're ending this what they call a surge at the end of this month. In the last six months of data they reported, they recovered 438 children. And yet we continue to see things that are also part of the training that is needed, that when we think about not only VAWA authorization, but they go in and they work with them, and we actually studied and found that a lot of these folks who receive this funding are training law enforcement on how to work within our communities. 438 of our children are back in the homes that they belong to.
One of the biggest things that happens, and I can point to specific examples in Montana and in Arizona specifically, of where people do not take missing persons reports. I have worked significantly in both of those areas. Very recently, just two weeks ago, I was talking to members of family of Emily Pike. I have the story of Kaysera Stops Pretty Places. Those folks and others have always struggled with getting the resources they need from the state, and it's a lack of training and the stereotypes that exist within our people.
They'll do things like, okay, my relative has gone missing, yes, they suffered from substance abuse disorder, we don't know where they are. The reason the Medicaid fraud happened was because nobody cared the Indians went missing. That's the root cause. If we don't address that, if we don't provide the training that was supposed to happen under VAWA, under Savanna's Act and the Not Invisible Act, we're not going to address this. And we need to recognize that 78% of American Indians and Alaska Natives do not live in reservations, but in large urban areas, and the exact same crisis is affecting them as it is the reservations.
Okay, thank you so much for that. And I have another question for you as well. I understand the Office on Violence Against Women just held its annual tribal consultation. What were the most pressing issues raised during this year's consultation? You have probably already touched upon those, and what role do you believe Congress can play in addressing those concerns that were made?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
Right now, we had the report that was done by under the Not Invisible Act and they produced a report called Not One More. Now this is the voices of families from across the nation listening sessions where families cried, wept and shared their greatest pain and grief. That has been removed from all federal websites. However, we've been told that the recommendations are being implemented across federal agencies but nobody's actually told us what that means. We need a coordinator to come in that says okay, this is what's happening at the FBI.
This is what's happening at the Office of Violence Against Women for us to come together and understand what actually has been implemented from that report and what actions are being taken now to continue to implement that report. Our families suffered and now their voices were raised, make it worthwhile, make sure those recommendations are being put into place.
Wiley Nickel
Can you hear me? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is an important hearing, I'm happy to be a part of it. Mr. Shores, I want to start with you in regards to your experience in this particular subject.
From a manpower standpoint, what are some things that we in Congress can do to bolster the manpower issues that face this predicament?
Trent Shores
Well, one thing we know is that when we surge law enforcement, crime goes down, right? That's true in Indian country, that's true in non-Indian country. And so we need to continue to ensure that tribal law enforcement, federal law enforcement have the resources available to really engage on the preventative side. When we are able to investigate, when we're able to hold accountable offenders, especially domestic violence offenders, we're going to see the MMIP rates drop. Now keep in mind, MMIP we talk about it as one issue, but it's two very different groups of people.
Sure.
Trent Shores
Missing people and murdered people. They require different resources, different types of investigations.
Speaker 26
Does the lack of law enforcement in those particular regions compound these issues, missing and murdered?
It does.
Explain how.
Trent Shores
If you only have two officers on duty at any given time in an area the size of the state of Delaware, then it's going to be a challenge to both respond to ongoing crimes and also investigate proactively or in a responsive way to a missing person.
Speaker 24
In regards to drug issues, overdoses, drug crimes, what kind of foothold do the cartels have on Indian reservations as you understand it?
Trent Shores
Well, when I was a United States Attorney and a federal prosecutor, we saw cartels targeting Indian country. They actually had business plans where they would target tribal citizens to get them hooked on samples of dope and they did it because they knew that there were high addiction rates and there were less law enforcement.
Speaker 24
In regards to successful prosecutions of those crime, it takes a lot of infrastructure, confidential informants, it takes law enforcement agents, it takes willing prosecutors. In regards to the prosecution efforts of drug crimes on reservations, how would you grade that performance right now? Do we need more prosecutors? Do we need more issues as it relates to venue ironed out? What kind of stuff can we do to help there?
Trent Shores
Well, you're talking to a career prosecutor and so yes, we need more prosecutors. I will tell you though, it's got to be prosecutors that are focused and committed to prosecuting these cases in Indian country.
Trent Shores
That's right. When US attorneys' offices engage, just as we did in the Northern District of Oklahoma where I served, we saw our violent crime rates go down. That was in Indian country and also in non-Indian country. But that was through a dedicated effort, and we had the federal resources. We had the support of the FBI and the ATF.
Speaker 22
In regards to crime outside of the reservation footprint, did the cartel go inside the reservation footprint and then extrapolate outside of the footprint to harm the broader region?
Trent Shores
Yes, it did. They were able to use that foothold then to expand their operations. The operation I'm thinking of impacted South Dakota, it impacted Colorado as well. Denver Post did a series of articles about this. It presented a real challenge to those communities.
Speaker 31
Sure. And my last question to you, sir, in regards to the task force program, I'm sure you're familiar with that. Has there been a successful model establishing task force relationships with tribal officers and federal officers working in a cross-jurisdictional sense?
Trent Shores
Sure. We have federal task force officers that invite tribal officers who have their SLEC, their special law enforcement commissions, to participate in those federal initiatives. We see police academies, tribal police academies everywhere struggling to get recruits. But our law enforcement enrollment numbers are down. Oklahoma does it better, I think, than anybody else where we, following the McGirt decision, have been a proving ground for what cross-jurisdictional relationships and cross-deputization agreements look like, and it has proved extremely effective.
Wonderful. Sir, thank you for your testimony. This is important work, and I look forward to following up at some point after this hearing to try to get this ironed out. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back.
Lucy McBath
Yes, thank you so much, Chairman Biggs. I have a unanimous consent request. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the Not Invisible Act Commission's final report, which was published November 1st, 2023, titled Not One More. This is actually in reference to what Ms. Echo-Hawk says was removed from the DOJ's website.
Andy Biggs
Without objection. I have some UCs before we go to the ranking member of the whole committee. This one is Arizona ranks near top in missing indigenous person cases. Sober living fraud allegations persist on tribal lands. Arizona senator blasts alleged Medicaid fraud at hearing.
Unveiling Arizona's sober living fraud scandal. 42 arrested in Arizona sober living home fraud targeting Native Americans, charges include manslaughter. Arizona faces $2.8 billion class action lawsuit over alleged negligence in access fraud scheme. Can AI help solve cold cases? Interior Department announces major fentanyl seizure following joint operation on Pueblo of Isleta reservation.
FBI surges personnel to support Operation Not Forgotten 2026, expanding investigative resources across Indian country. The legacy of Ashlynne Mike, how the kidnapping and murder of Ashlynne Mike changed our country's AMBER Alert protocols. Report, 20% of US attorneys' offices with Indian country oversight are non-compliant with landmark missing and murdered indigenous people's law. FBI sets $25,000 minimum reward for dozens of unsolved Indian country cases. And then the descriptions of cases involving Ryan Tom, Merle Begay-Estes, and Elijah Wade Andrews, without objection, will be admitted into the record.
And now I recognize the gentleman from Maryland, the ranking member of the whole committee, Mr. Raskin.
Jamie Raskin
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Shores, I want to start with you. You reminded us to distinguish carefully between missing persons and murdered persons. And what is the average age, do we know, of a missing indigenous person and the average age of a murdered indigenous person?
Trent Shores
I don't know that statistic offhand. I do know that we see between the ages of 18 and 25 a disproportionate amount of victimization of Native Americans.
Abigail Echo-Hawk
It varies state to state. It really depends on what's happening in those individual states and also depending on where they're located. For example, in Montana in Roosevelt County, the average age of a native man at the time of their death is about 52 years old. And so when you look at the average lifespan of individuals based on where they're living, we see what difference happens. And so it varies state to state.
Jamie Raskin
In the spring of last year, the Department of Justice cut an estimated 500 million dollars out of public safety grants that were headed out the door to bolster law enforcement, to help the victims of violent crimes, and to try to promote public safety. This committee has heard lots of complaints from around the country about how devastating that was. What has been the experience of tribes and tribal-serving organizations with respect to the cuts in those grants and then to delays in FY 2026 notice of funding opportunities?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
It was significantly impacting to Indian country. In our study, we found that over 60 percent of these organizations were using federal funds. And even though some of them were reinstated, the fear of having them jerked back has actually made people not want to get hired by these organizations. They had a hard time rehiring people they had laid off. And they also didn't implement back programs that they had had previously because they were too afraid that they would not have the resources to sustain them.
And so we've seen a significant drop in services across the nation as a direct result.
Jamie Raskin
One thing I seemed to hear from each one of the witnesses was that something that could be done right away is to see full funding of law enforcement programs on tribal lands. But the administration has one proposal that would cut more than 100 million dollars from tribal law enforcement, effectively around 20 or 25 percent of what's being spent now. So what kind of effect would that have?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
Absolutely devastating effect. And there is a bill sitting in committee right now, the Tribal Law Enforcement Parity Act, which is one we have been pushing forward for several years, that would give the opportunity to expand tribal law enforcement. One of the things we also suffer from is that our law enforcement is good. It's so good that they are recruited away by other counties, particularly in rural areas. We train them and then they head out because we don't have the resources such as better retirement and other resources in order to maintain them.
So I strongly urge you to consider that bill which is sitting in committee right now so that we can push forward and ensure, regardless of what the president's budget is, that we can push forward legislation that would allow us to continue to grow, expand tribal law enforcement, and ensure that our people have what they need.
Jamie Raskin
Finally, can you tell us what you believe are the principal causes of missing people in indigenous communities and why does the problem seem to be so intractable?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
This country has a legacy of trafficking, kidnapping, and murder of American Indians and Alaska Natives. As early as the diaries of Columbus to the oversexualization of a young woman named Pocahontas, a member of the Pamunkey tribe who was kidnapped at the age of five, sexually trafficked, and then died in captivity at the age of 20. This is a legacy that continues and there is both the oversexualization of native people, the invisibility of this impact on native men, and the fact that as a result of the maze of jurisdictions that our people are just at the hands of these serial rapists, all these perpetrators who take advantage of that. Additionally, if we don't bring the resources to our young people to train them how to identify when they are going to be targeted by predators, that's one of the essential things that exists in some of the funding that's getting cut. We have to give them an opportunity to survive.
And right now, without these services, our people are going to continue to die and I'm tired of watching that happen.
Speaker 10
Well thank you for your testimony and your work. I yield back Mr. Chairman.
Andy Biggs
I recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Elijah, how many Indian tribes are federally recognized in Arizona?
The same amount.
Speaker 18
It is the biggest tribe both geographically and in population in the country.
Yes, yes, we have that distinction.
Andy Biggs
And we also have the in Arizona the Yavapai-Apache which is roughly even after I think we just gave them another 1,200 acres so maybe about 4,000 acres and 200 people maybe.
Andy Biggs
So we have some of the smallest tribes and some of the largest in Arizona.
Andy Biggs
And are you familiar with the sober living scheme in particular the impact on the Navajo Nation?
Yes, yes I am.
Myron Lizer
Well because of the the funding that has come and with the oversight there has been a I'll say unscrupulous minds, crafty minds that have benefited from it. They've exploited the lack of oversight and they've gotten away with millions of dollars. And so the exploitation along with the great need has kind of created a perfect storm for this unscrupulous activity.
Andy Biggs
So the sober living program was designed to actually put have basically residential care for Native Americans who had addiction problems, right?
Myron Lizer
Yes, yes, they um have had to be transferred, transported several hundred miles to these facilities because we don't have these facilities on our reservation. So they have left their family support, they have left their spiritual support and put themselves at the mercy of unscrupulous hands.
Andy Biggs
Do you know how many how many individuals were taken under false pretenses and then have not returned to the reservation or just nobody knows where they are?
Myron Lizer
Hundreds. And again, you know, some could be wantingly just, you know, life at home is not what they want it to be and so they just kind of leave themselves out there and become street homeless people and refusing to report home, some of them, most of them.
Speaker 21
Yes. Yes, because of it's just rampant running rampant on reservations and big cities.
Andy Biggs
And when we talk about jurisdiction, I'll ask all of you this question because we've talked about jurisdictional issues which become a problem and having met with multiple tribes and tribal officers and police agencies in Arizona, I can tell you it's a huge huge problem. But I also met with the FBI agents to try to find out how many agents nationwide were actually working on violent crime involving Native Americans. And I'm wondering if you would be surprised if I told you at the time, the first time, which was several years ago, that it was probably below 12. Would you be surprised dealing with all with those kind of violent crimes at that time?
Andy Biggs
Well, and now it sits somewhere around, I think in April of '64, and then they have funding for 90. And now the surge that Kash Patel put in was to assign 400 agents to try to clear up these cases. So there's been a remarkable surge in the last little bit. What have you seen, Attorney General Knudsen, with regard to the impact of that surge?
Austin Knudsen
Well, Mr. Chairman, I think it's probably a little too early to say, but I think I've certainly seen a lot of uptick in optimism. The Billings field office, that's located very geographically close to a lot of our larger geographic tribal reservations. I think everyone's very excited to have some more resources on the ground to deal with these cases because prior to that, for instance, when I was prosecuting on the Fort Peck Reservation in Roosevelt County, Montana, we had two FBI agents. Period. So the prospect of getting 50 or 60 more agents located geographically close to us, I think is making all of us very, very optimistic.
Andy Biggs
Do you want to expand on I think Mr. Shore's testimony with regard to cartels? I know Arizona being so situated so close, well actually on the border, these tribes, some of them very small, some of them with no law enforcement at all or with just three or four officers. Tell us what that means for cartel operations.
Austin Knudsen
Mr. Chairman, there's no question that the Mexican drug cartels have used our tribal reservations as jumping off and, as Mr. Lizer said, as a foothold into our states. We certainly have seen that in Montana. We have seen the Sinaloa Cartel and the New Generation Jalisco Cartel, vicious Mexican drug cartels, move into Montana, I'd say about 10 to 15 years ago, really start on our reservations. Get a foothold in there. And you might say, well, why is that?
Because they're not stupid. They know that there are jurisdictional issues. They know that my office, our state narcotics agents, can't touch them. And they know that there was a very limited federal presence at that time to deal with law enforcement issues on the reservation. I mean, this is just not long division.
So they certainly used that jurisdictional wrinkle to exploit. They would oftentimes come onto a reservation, get themselves a tribal girlfriend, a tribal boyfriend, whatever the case may be, have that person start muling and dealing their drugs. And from there, I mean, again, this is 10, 12 years ago when I was a county prosecutor, we've simply seen that just spill over into the entire state. This is certainly no longer a reservation issue. We find cartel members, MS-13 members, Tren de Aragua members, not just affiliates anymore, actual cartel members openly acting all over Montana.
Speaker 34
Well, my time has expired, but without objection, I recognize the ranking member, Ms. McBath, for an additional five minutes.
Lucy McBath
Thank you so much. And I'm really, thank you, Chairman, for allowing us more time because this is just, I think, learning so much today. But I do really want to go back to the Not One More report. I do really want to go back and kind of spend a little bit more time on this. I too am a victim of a child that was murdered.
So I'm very conscious and aware of what this means for you. Very conscious and very aware, not just sympathetic, but really empathetic because I too have a child that was murdered violently. So early on in the second Trump administration, the Not Invisible Act Commission's final report, which I actually have in my hand right here, was removed from the DOJ's website as we expressed earlier. The report represented years of testimony from survivors, families, and advocates from all the tribal communities. So Ms. Echo-Hawk, what kind of message does the removal of this report send to our native community?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
It was devastating for the families and the advocates who had worked so hard to ensure that our voices were truly represented. The one thing that we are grateful for is the bureaucrats that existed across the federal agencies who continued to move that forward regardless. We also recognize there was a misunderstanding of the reason why it was removed from the website. American Indians and Alaska Natives are a political entity. We did not fall under the wiping of everything considered DEI across websites and programs.
That is not why we have set-asides for tribal communities. There is a treaty and trust obligation for American Indians and Alaska Natives, and that report should still be there because it is not DEI, it is actually a legal obligation by the United States government to fulfill treaty and trust obligation to meaningful tribal consultation and to ensure that it is appropriately listed and those actions taken across the federal government. We are a political entity, we are not DEI.
Lucy McBath
In fact, one advocate described the removal of the Not One More report as feeling like, and I'm quoting, like silencing our voices again. Like our daughters, our mothers, our sisters were all being silenced. So Ms. Echo-Hawk, recognizing that the report's erasure could communicate that the pain and input of tribal voices are disposable, how does the erasure of the report affect trust in the federal government and the federal partnership?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
I have done surveys of the native community in regards to their trust in the federal government, and over the years as we do it, we see that continuing to decrease as a result of movements like this because we cannot trust that our treaty and trust obligations are going to be fulfilled. And when I came here today, I often wonder, is it worth sharing the stories? Am I just putting our grief and pain out for political consumption without everything being or anything being moved forward? My rape was not partisan. The murder of Kaysera Stops Pretty Places was not partisan.
The murder of Elijah on the Crow Reservation was not partisan. This is treaty and trust obligations, it is the law of the land, and we deserve to not only have the justice but have the resources that were paid for on the land that this building is on right now.
And in that, I have one more question for you. Several of my colleagues have brought up the issue of cartels on tribal lands. Do you have anything else that you'd like to add concerning that?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
Again, where we find entities like cartels, like serial rapists and others, they are taking advantage of the jurisdictional issues that were created by this United States government. They are taking advantage of the fact that people don't care or don't pay attention to the fact that we go missing and are murdered at high rates. They don't take the missing persons reports that we try to give. They don't properly investigate. And as a result, there is advantage taken.
However, do I think that that's the only or biggest problem in Indian Country in regards to this? Absolutely not. When I think again about the individuals and I have talked to families who are missing people as a result of the scheme that was taking advantage of nobody cared that they were being taken into these programs or facilities in Arizona is they tried to file missing persons reports. Nobody listened.
What we have is a problem of apathy, a lack of training, and the non-fulfillment of our treaty and trust obligation. I am a native person that has treaty and trust obligations whether or not I'm standing here in Washington, D.C. or on my reservation. When I step off that doesn't end. And we need to ensure that regardless of where we live that treaty and trust obligation is upheld.
Andy Biggs
Thank you so much, Anajel. Thank you. I just I will point out with regard to the missing indigenous persons and the sober living issue that really mushroomed with COVID and post-COVID. And I know that the state legislature immediately started opening up investigations related to a lot of reports happening. And I wouldn't say they didn't care.
I would say that they did the best they could with the resources that they had and the information that they had, which was not much because it was coming from it was coming as far away as Montana that those people were coming down and they were being dumped into Phoenix. And that that was rough. That was rough for them and rough for their families. And we still haven't found them all. And we are looking.
And you may be right, it's a resource issue, but I would suggest it's also a jurisdictional issue that has got to be cleared up sooner or later. I don't know why it has taken however many years, but I mean if you have a crime and it's overlapped by five jurisdictional agencies, you're going to have a congress of bad outcomes. And that has got to be solved quickly. There's no doubt. I think I hope that's something that all of us can agree on, that jurisdiction has to be cleared up.
Abigail Echo-Hawk
And I would encourage you all to work with the Coalition of Large Tribes, which again the Navajo Nation is part of, who has a jurisdictional fix that could address many of these problems.
Andy Biggs
What do you do with well, that's not where I wanted to go, but I would just say you also have in our state, you have you don't just have large tribes. You have small tribes. And you have small tribes that intersect and compete and don't necessarily want to collaborate and cooperate with each other. I don't know, I might be speaking out of turn, but that's my observation as a guy who's tried to work with some of them. And we have tribes that literally cross state boundaries.
We have one tribe that asserts territory and land in Mexico. And the Mexican government has said, no, we don't recognize your claims to tribal land in Mexico. We have got massive jurisdictional issues that isn't just the large tribes. We have smaller tribes that have massive land with hardly anybody as members of those tribes. It becomes a real congress of questions that we have got to resolve.
But I wanted to talk about really Order 3450. And in 2021, the Department of the Interior created the Missing and Murdered Unit within BIA's Office of Justice Services to investigate MMIP cases. And earlier this year, Secretary Burgum signed Secretarial Order 3450 directing that unit to actively work missing persons reports and cold cases. And I'm going to ask all of you, and be brief if you would, please, from what you've each seen on the ground, is 3450 and that renewed focus making any difference or a you know, small or substantial for tribal communities?
Abigail Echo-Hawk
There has been some significant solving of cold cases as a result of that unit.
However, we do know that there is a significant also a significant lack of resources. They have more cases than they can possibly investigate. Also, for example, in the case of Kaysera Stops Pretty Places, there are times where they begin to work on cases. In this instance, three years ago, they were working really hard to help solve and were assisting the state of Montana. And two years ago, they went radio silence on that.
And so there's also like, how are they picking and choosing?
Andy Biggs
I want to interrupt you for a question before you go too far. You said that it is solved, it has helped solve many cases. Can you tell me how many cases that you're aware of? I mean, I hate to sound cold, I just would like to know if there's just from a statistical performance, I mean, Mr. Leiser mentioned measurable outcomes. I would like to know how many there are and then how many remain cold cases that you're aware of.
Abigail Echo-Hawk
Right now, I cannot give you that specific number, but I can get that for you. We also know that we don't always know exactly how many cases and we can't always get them to tell us. But there has been limited amounts of information.
Department of Interior.
Andy Biggs
DOI, okay. And that may be an operation, I don't know what the operation is. I don't know who's reporting them to DOI and how they find out. I don't know, Mr. Shores, Attorney General Knudsen, Mr. Leiser, any comments on...
Myron Lizer
Tribes are really keen on sharing the data, so that kind of discombobulates the effort to combat this crisis.
So who's, you're sharing data, tribes themselves?
Speaker 37
Not readily. That's been my experience in Arizona. Some will tell us very, some don't even keep track of the data, tribes themselves in Arizona. I don't know about anywhere else, but I can tell you that when I've said, can you give us data, they said we don't even keep track. Mr. Shores, Mr. Knudsen?
Trent Shores
I think the data, I think the data is inherently unreliant. I think that is a challenge. But your question was about the cold cases. I think one challenge that we have to acknowledge is the cold case teams are a mile wide but an inch deep. There are so many cold cases for them to go look at.
But the challenge becomes that if we're investigating cold cases, which any investigator will tell you are the most difficult cases to investigate. The evidence is stale, witnesses' memories are stale. Those are resources being taken away from current crimes or current missing persons or current murdered victims that we're investigating their crimes. So there is a choice sometimes that has to be made because we don't have infinite resources. So I think that is something to be mindful of in that regard.
And I would note that also with these cold cases, they're limited in part to investigating these cases in Indian country. Just because an indigenous person is missing does not mean it's an Indian country crime. We find too often that they're missing in urban areas where tribal law enforcement don't have jurisdiction or federal law enforcement in some regards might not have the authority to go investigate.
Austin Knudsen
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would actually echo what Mr. Shores just said. I mean, a lot of our indigenous population investigations are originating in Yellowstone County, within the boundaries of Billings Police Department, which is off the reservation. So here again, we're at this jurisdictional morass. As far as the cold case unit, candidly, Mr. Chairman, I've not been briefed on that.
I don't know where they are. That's a function of a couple things in Montana. We're between US attorneys right now. There's been a lot of retirements out of that office and just, I don't have that information for you.
Andy Biggs
Well, we have exhausted our time and the time limitations that we have today. I thank you all for testifying. I will just say this, I appreciate the criticism and critique. I found it interesting that the ranking member who never, never convened a committee hearing on this issue was critical of me for convening a hearing on this issue because it wasn't in the timeframe that he wanted, even though he never bothered to get that done, nor did the last folks. And I'm not trying to turn it political.
The point is, they turned it political. This should not be political. This should be something we all care about and work to resolve. And so I do see some progress being made, not as fast as I'd like, nor as completely as I'd like.
But I hope that we don't forget this hearing today. I appreciate all of you. All of you gave us recommendations to go out and carry those forward, and I'll do my best to try to get something done. I have bad news. It's going to be in the lame duck.
That's when we'll be able to get something done, if we're going to get something done. But appreciate all of you for being here today, and with that, we're adjourned.