Twenty-Five Years After 9/11: The Evolving Terrorism Landscape and State's Counterterrorism Response
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House Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa U.S. House of Representatives
Follow its sittingsJoel Borkert
Chairman Lawler, Ranking Member Moskowitz, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. Twenty-five years ago this week, I was a senior in college. September 11th changed me forever. Within months, I commissioned as an infantry officer, and that morning set the course for the next twenty years of my life. That is true for a whole generation of Americans.
We deployed, most came home, but some did not. Twenty-five years later, I measure our work against what it cost to get here. We got a number of things right. We assembled a global coalition, we took away the sanctuary Al-Qaeda used to plan those attacks, and we destroyed the ISIS caliphate and killed Al-Baghdadi, Al-Zawahiri, and Bin Laden. And we built a counterterrorism architecture designed to stop attacks before they happen.
By God's grace, our nation has not suffered another attack on the scale of September 11th. But we also got some things wrong. We sometimes measured effort instead of effect, we stood up partner forces we could not sustain, and we treated counterterrorism as a permanent condition rather than a means of solving a specific problem, and we suffered from mission creep. Today we face a fundamentally different terrorist landscape than we did twenty-five years ago. Although significantly degraded, the Islamic terrorist threat persists, fueled by Iran's proxies and jihadist groups exploiting weak borders and fragile states.
Meanwhile, narcoterrorists have devastated American communities, contributing to hundreds and thousands of deaths, and far-left terrorism has re-emerged to target the institutions, the ideals, and the principles of our constitutional republic.
Terrorists have adapted, exploiting AI, drones, digital assets, chat rooms, and the dark web to radicalize, recruit, finance, and inspire across borders. Today, small cells or even individuals can achieve effects that once required large organizations, extensive resources, and physical sanctuary. The lessons of the last 25 years are clear, and so are many of the threats that we face today. And the President's National Security Strategy and his counterterrorism strategy reflect that reality: protect the American homeland first, identify threats before they happen, act with precision over permanence, and expect capable partners to carry their fair share of the burden. And I am proud of the critical role the Department of State plays in advancing the President's counterterrorism priorities.
First, we put the strategy into action by focusing on the homeland and working outward, confronting the threats closest to the home. We have secured our border, and under President Trump and Secretary Rubio's leadership, we have designated 21 cartels as foreign terrorist organizations or specially designated global terrorists. Those designations bring the full weight of our counterterrorism architecture to bear, disrupting financing and logistics while equipping capable partners to dismantle these organizations before their violence reaches American communities. Second, we focus on high-payoff efforts that stop terrorists before they reach our border. By sharing terrorist screening and traveler information and strengthening aviation and border security, we push our defense outward.
A single watchlist hit at a foreign airport can stop a terrorist before they even board a plane, at a fraction of a cost of deploying military forces. Third, strong partners are force multipliers for American security, and we are mobilizing them to shoulder their share of the fight. Together, we are applying sustained financial pressure and diplomacy to deny the IRGC and its proxies the resources that sustain their terrorist networks. We are also leading efforts with partners to combat far-left terrorism, strengthening detection and information sharing so today's violence does not grow into a threat that jeopardizes our fundamental values and freedoms. Finally, the reorganization has improved coordination, it's eliminated redundancy, and demanded results, ensuring every program, dollar, and partnership makes America safer, stronger, and more prosperous.
And that brings me back to where I started. I'm often asked what we learned from 9/11. Two of the hijackers were known to this government but not on a watchlist. Today our watchlist system is greatly improved and designed to make that kind of failure far less likely. I have devoted the past 25 years of my life to helping ensure this country would never suffer an attack like that again.
This summer, my son will commission as an army officer. He was not alive on September 11th, but he inevitably inherits this mission. My obligation, and I would respectfully submit our obligation, is to hand him a country that does not have to learn this lesson twice. Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
Michael Lawler
Thank you, Mr. Borker. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. 25 years after 9/11, how has the Bureau's core mission changed, and how are you ensuring that an attack like that never happens again?
Joel Borkert
Yes, thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman. So, the Trump administration is applying the lessons learned from the past 25 years by keeping what works and correcting what's not. We are leveraging the CT architecture to defend the homeland first. Our primary responsibility is to prevent attacks on the homeland, and that is this administration's number one counterterrorism objective.
We are also looking to find threats before they reach us and use precision over permanence. That means we're moving away from expensive and unfocused capacity building efforts and investing on what actually stops attacks, which are things like strong border screening, modern watchlisting, real-time information sharing, and strategic counterterrorism financing. And we are expecting our partners to carry their fair share. So we're shifting the responsibility to where it belongs, to our partners and allies whose stability and sovereignty are directly at stake. So America will lead, but we will no longer carry the fight alone.
And so that's how we're addressing the lessons learned from September 11th and moving forward.
Michael Lawler
The State Department's reorganization moved the CT Bureau under the Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security. What have the benefits been of this move and how has it improved counterterrorism coordination within the State Department?
Joel Borkert
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a great question. It is actually the reorganization, I think, is into one, what we call the T family, one Under Secretariat, where we've moved all the security assistance bureaus under one family has been a tremendous asset to ensuring that we're breaking down silos and that we're eliminating redundancies across all the security assistance programs in the interagency. I routinely am able and same with my team to talk to the other security assistance bureaus like INL, especially now that we're doing a lot of stuff in the Western Hemisphere and ensuring that we're not being redundant and that we're being complementary in our efforts as we conduct our security assistance. What this has done is it's led to faster coordination, I think clearer accountability, and stronger interagency action.
And so the US government is finally working like one team to fight against terrorism.
Michael Lawler
Given that ISIS remnants remain active in Syria, how important is Syria's commitment to the Defeat ISIS Coalition and its continued counterterrorism coordination with the US to prevent an ISIS resurgence?
Joel Borkert
Thank you, sir. Syria's support is tremendously important. The new government is working with us against ISIS and denying the space to groups such as Hezbollah. They have joined the D-ISIS Coalition. We have a meeting in October that they will be joining to try to get the international partners to support Syria more.
Our priority is to prevent the resurgence of ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Syria, to protect our US interests, to disrupt external operation plots, and help our partners support building Syria's CT capability. We're doing that. So far the Syrian government has been working in that direction. There's still a lot of work to do. I mean, I think we all can acknowledge that.
But what we've seen so far is them willing and we are here to help them and the international community support build their capability to actually do that.
Michael Lawler
In the final days of President Trump's first administration, State Department designated the Houthis as a terrorist organization. Yet the Biden administration swiftly removed that designation. Years later, we can see this was a poor decision that has only enabled this group. Why are FTO designations and other terrorist designations important and why must we be careful not to remove designations too soon?
Joel Borkert
Thank you for the question, sir. Designations are extremely important. They are a powerful tool that opens up the entire CT toolkit such as enabling sanctions, immigration consequences, material support jurisdiction, coordinated law enforcement, financial pressure, and security assistance. So designations really open up the entire CT architecture to go after these terrorist organizations.
Michael Lawler
What specific authorities or additional guidance from Congress would help the bureau operate more effectively?
Joel Borkert
Sure, thank you for that question. I think the most significant thing is just to be able to ensure that we have the necessary resources and authorities to ensure that the funding bills are passed and provided to us. So I think consistency when it comes to the resourcing piece, and I think right now we have the authorities that we need.
Speaker 4
Okay. My time has expired. I now recognize the ranking member, Representative Moskowitz, for five minutes.
Bradley Schneider
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to yield to Mr. Schneider to do his questions first, if that's all right.
I apologize. Now recognize Mr. Schneider for five minutes.
Bradley Schneider
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Booker. You will be two feet taller. Before we start, let me just commend your son. My son served five years as a naval officer. When you see your son commissioned, there is no greater feeling.
And my son was alive, he was in third grade on 9/11, and I think it inspired him, and it inspires me to make sure we keep our country safe. Twenty-five years following that horrible attack, terrorist attack, the terrorism landscape has, as you noted, changed dramatically. Al-Qaeda and ISIS remain threats, but terrorist organizations are more diffuse, more technologically capable, as you noted, and more able and willing to use new technologies such as drones and other emerging technologies to wreak havoc where they are, where we live, and around the world. This week, the Iran-backed Houthis have made strategic pushes and territorial gains, seizing much of the country's Red Sea coast, including the island of Mayun, the port of Mocha, and the Hanish Islands. They are moving closer to the Bab-el-Mandeb Strait and have launched attacks against Saudi targets, prompting Saudi and Yemeni government forces to conduct airstrikes against Houthi positions.
The complex terrorist landscape that threatens Americans at home and around the world and challenges our interests globally requires a comprehensive counterterrorism strategy that uses all the tools at our disposal. It must be grounded in facts, expertise, and interagency cooperation, and it must encourage strong partnerships with our allies. Our challenge: we have to take the threat seriously. We need the expertise to understand the threat and how we address it. We need the partnerships with our allies around the world to fight it.
And lastly, we need persistence and perseverance. That's why I'm concerned about the politicization of our counterterrorism efforts and the loss of expertise across the State Department. At a moment when the threat landscape is becoming more complicated, we've seen programs and capabilities across our counterterrorism infrastructure eliminated or significantly reduced. At the same time, our counterterrorism strategy appears to be placing particular emphasis on certain forms of political violence. We have to take every threat seriously, but our counterterrorism policy should be driven by an objective assessment of the threats we face, all the threats we face.
Political violence is dangerous regardless of the ideology behind it, and Americans deserve a strategy that reflects the full threat landscape. The United States has spent twenty-five years building the capabilities and partnerships necessary to prevent another attack like 9/11.
And you talk about in your remarks this distinction between precision and permanence. And I'll be honest, I don't really understand it. I agree with my colleague on the concerns about the designation of the Houthis as a terrorist organization. They are unquestionably and have always been a terrorist organization. They continue to make progress.
We had a hearing in this very room a couple weeks ago talking about the need to address the Houthi threat. My concern is that when you talk about permanence, Houthis aren't going away any day soon. How do you distinguish precision versus permanence in talking about addressing the Houthi threat and others like it?
Joel Borkert
Thank you, sir. Thank you for those kind words. I am looking forward to my son getting commissioned. To answer your question, when we say precision over permanence, what we're talking about is moving away from a lot of the expensive, unfocused capacity-building efforts that we've done in the past. I don't think we have any intention right now of moving a large amount of forces into Yemen to address the Houthi threat.
The Houthis are a threat. They are, you know, a terrorist proxy for the Iranian regime. And so that's why from the CT, Counterterrorism Bureau's perspective, we're going to continue to go after them by ensuring that we have strong border screening, modern watchlisting, real-time information.
Bradley Schneider
But Mr. Bogert, I understand and we have to have strong screening at the airports. But the Houthis have increased their capacity to close down the Bab-el-Mandeb. Iran has closed down the Straits of Hormuz. Terrorist threats are now much more than individual lone wolves, which we have to constantly be vigilant against. But if we don't have the permanent capacities, the partnerships with our allies to thwart efforts like the Houthis.
Al-Qaeda is no longer, is not gone. They may be diminished, but they're still in Afghanistan and they've increased strength in Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. How do we turn away from our allies and those partnerships at a time when the threats continue to grow?
Joel Borkert
When it comes to the Houthi threat and really all the Iranian-backed proxy threats, you know, we are attacking the system that sustains it with maximum pressure. So, for example, when it comes to the burden-sharing piece, we're leading a diplomatic campaign to urge governments to also designate IRGC and their terrorist proxies. So far, we've had two dozen, over two dozen governments adopt designations and restrictions, which provides them the tools to be able to go after them.
Bradley Schneider
And I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're just limited on time. I agree we need to do the, to designate the IRGC. We've been leading the effort here in Congress. But we also need to make sure that we are working with our allies to address the very real threats and the growing strength of terrorist organizations in Africa, in the Arabian Peninsula, across the Middle East and around the world that are intent and committed to harming Americans, harming American interests and attacking our homeland.
Joel Borkert
Yes, sir. And I completely agree. And the Counterterrorism Bureau is doing that. That's why we have been working with our partners and allies to help develop their capabilities to be able to go after these groups. And that's why we've encouraged them to designate them.
In fact, our deputy coordinator is actually leading the Countering Transnational Terrorism Forum in Paraguay today, which is focused on countering Iranian proxies. So we are doing that. We are working with our partners. We are working with our allies to ensure that they can go after these proxy groups like the Houthis.
I'm way over time. I appreciate the extra time.
Michael Lawler
Gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize Representative Sherman for five minutes.
Brad Sherman
I'm concerned that we need to follow the money and that that will become far more difficult if crypto actually becomes a currency. It literally means cryptocurrency literally means hidden money. From Los Angeles, we've got the Olympics coming up. I'm concerned about drone attacks on stadiums. You can jam the radio control of a radio-controlled drone.
But in Ukraine, on both sides, we're seeing an increasing use, perhaps up to one-third, of fiber optics controlled drones that don't use radio control. Do we have the technology to prevent malicious actors from using drones to attack a stadium at the Olympics?
Joel Borkert
Thank you for that question, sir. For domestic matters, I would defer to DHS on what capabilities that they have. I will say that we have multiple agencies and other bureaus that are looking at emerging technology such as drones, AI, other platforms. The CT Bureau collaborates and coordinates with them on countering these emerging threats.
Brad Sherman
I thank you. I'm working with those agencies trying to get them to look at some of the technology that's come that has been developed, but certainly concerned about that kind of attack. A democracy makes good decisions when Congress is consulted and when the American people are involved. Unfortunately, the Iran war was not a good decision. And Mr. Chairman, I would hope that this subcommittee would have hearings into the Iran war.
We have not. We also have not had hearings on the Saudi 123 agreement. The Republicans on this committee were formally informed in December that an agreement that did not meet the gold standard was in negotiation. That was shared with Democrats in February. We have had long time to put together hearings on that very dangerous agreement.
The vast majority of the 9/11 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia. I remember when the most powerful monarch in the Middle East was a good friend of the United States. But every weapon system that the Shah got in the early 70s was in the hands of the mullahs in the by the end of the 1970s. Mr. Burkett, is there substantial support among the people of Saudi Arabia for the ideals of Al-Qaeda, or were those Saudi hijackers somehow a figment of the past?
Speaker 8
I mean, I would have to defer to Saudi Arabia and NEA on the specifics on where they stand now. I will say this, that in addition to military cooperation, basing, information sharing, and bilateral I'm sure we cooperate with the Saudi government. The question is, it's not a democracy. Who's going to be running Saudi Arabia?
We cooperated with the Shah in 1978. Thank God we didn't cooperate on a nuclear cooperation agreement. Uncontrolled AI with AI in control poses an existential threat. But before we get there, we have to worry about AI being used as a tool by humans who might be malevolent actors. We have seen the Houthis, we have seen other terrorist groups use AI to improve their missiles, to identify targets, and perhaps to and to at least begin to work on biological weapons.
Brad Sherman
What is your bureau doing to either prevent the use of AI by terrorist groups and terrorist nations or to respond to such possible action?
Joel Borkert
Yes, sir, thank you for that question. There's multiple agencies and bureaus that are working on this. We have the Emerging Threats Bureau, which is part of, which is in our family, so we work very closely with them. We collaborate and coordinate on countering emerging threats such as AI. We have and will leverage the full CT architecture to counter this threat.
As a person who's seen us effectively adapt to the evolving terrorist landscape over the past 25 years, I'm confident we'll continue to do so.
Brad Sherman
And finally, it disturbs me that there's nothing in your report, the White House Counterterrorism Strategy makes zero mention of right-wing violence. What we saw in this Capitol on January 6th shows us that anti-Semitic militant groups, white supremacist groups are indeed a terrorist threat. We saw that with Melissa Hortman. We also see extreme left-wing inspired terrorism in this country. That is, however, dealt with the reports and I would hope that your organization would focus proportionately on both right-wing and left-wing domestic terrorism.
I yield back.
Speaker 18
Gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize Representative Moskowitz for five minutes.
Jared Moskowitz
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, thank you for your service to the country. There is left-wing extremism in the country, right? You listed as one of the top three issues.
Yes, sir, that's correct.
Speaker 21
There likely is. There has been right-wing extremism, but there's been left-wing extremism.
Jared Moskowitz
No, I just want to be clear. Your testimony and the report mentions left-wing extremism. I'm agreeing with you, there is left-wing extremism. The report talks about Antifa. I'm agreeing with you about that.
I'm not saying you're wrong. But there's also right-wing extremism, right?
Jared Moskowitz
Why are you struggling to answer that? Every American knows the answer to the question is there's extremism on both sides. There's left-wing extremism and there's right-wing extremism. We can debate whether it's 60-40, 55-45, we can debate that. But there is no debate amongst the American people that there is left-wing extremists and there are right-wing extremists.
But you struggle to answer on the right-wing extremist. Melissa Hortman was killed by a right-wing extremist, not mentioned in your report. Charlie Kirk is mentioned, I'm glad it's mentioned, he was killed by a left-wing extremist. And so let me ask this question, I'll give you another shot at it. Is, are there right-wing extremist political violence by right-wing in this country?
There are.
Jared Moskowitz
I can see the wheels turning in your head trying to figure out how you don't get in trouble to try to answer that question.
That's not true.
Jared Moskowitz
The CT Bureau goes after terrorists regardless of ideology.
But why isn't the answer, Representative Moskowitz, of course there's right-wing and left-wing extremism, of course there's political violence on both sides? We all know this. So does the audience. Why don't you?
Speaker 19
Oh, it's now all forms, it's all people, right? All lives matter, is that what you're doing now?
Joel Borkert
No, sir, what I'm trying to tell you is that, yes, you are correct, there is left-wing extremism and violence and there is right-wing. And this administration, as the Secretary has said in his July ministerial.
Joel Borkert
No, sir, what I'm trying to tell you is that there, yes, you are correct, there is left-wing extremism and violence and there's right-wing. And this administration, as the Secretary has said in his July ministerial, left-wing extremism and terrorists has been a blind spot that we must rectify. And that's why this administration is taking it seriously.
Jared Moskowitz
Hold on, that's great. I don't disagree with anything you just said. But it seems the blind spot is that it's on the right wing for you. It took you three minutes to get to a yes that there is right-wing extremism. Okay, I'll move on.
I think I've made the point with the problem with this report is that it's completely one-sided. Now listen, let's change subjects for a second. As part of our counterterrorism strategy, this is page 11 of the report, given the freedom of maritime navigation is crucial to the US economy, we will not allow strategic waterways such as the Strait of Hormuz or Red Sea to be held hostage by a non-state or state actor. In Yemen, we're prepared to take decisive action again and our ships are endangered by the Houthis, right? Obviously, that's the goal in the report.
We're not living up to that because obviously we have problems in the Strait of Hormuz now and we're getting problems in the Red Sea. You mentioned, we talked a little bit about the Houthis and the strategy. Reuters is reporting this morning that US officials met with the Houthis in Oman. You aware that? Over the weekend.
Jared Moskowitz
Okay, so Reuters is reporting that US officials met with the Houthis in Oman over the weekend and struck a deal with them. That we struck a deal with the terrorist organization that they won't attack our ships and they won't attack Israel ships, they'll only attack Saudi ships. You're not aware if that meeting took place or you made that deal?
Sir, I'm not aware of any of that.
Jared Moskowitz
Sir, let's say for the sake of argument that meeting did happen and that is the deal. And that is why we're not going in and helping Saudi Arabia. That's why when we talked just last week that we're not doing enough to fight the Houthis, which we agree on a bipartisan basis we should be, is would you be okay if we struck a deal with the Houthis?
Joel Borkert
This administration is committed to defending the homeland first and protecting American citizens. And that is what we're doing.
Jared Moskowitz
I know, but I heard your strong argument about what we need to be doing against the Houthis and now we find out that we're meeting with them, striking a deal with them, the terrorist organization. And so, you know, you can't have it both ways is what I'm saying. So Mr. Chairman, I'm over my time, appreciate your indulgence.
Jared Moskowitz
We will now commence a second round of questioning. You're really giving me a second bite of the apple with him?
Sure.
Michael Lawler
Okay. One little understood part of the counterterrorism picture is actually the Philippines and where there is still a relatively minor yet important presence of ISIS-affiliated terrorists. Can you please give us the latest update on how the Trump administration is eliminating this threat in the Indo-Pacific?
Joel Borkert
Yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. We continue to have a robust counterterrorism program with the Philippines. It's our largest in the East Asia Pacific region. I'm not sure the exact specifics on the total active amount of funding that we have there when it comes to counterterrorism.
I know we have a total of 44 million active in East Asia Pacific, that would include Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines. CT supports prosecutors and investigators. We've brought terrorist financing charges against individuals involved in kidnapping of a US citizen. So our partnership with the Philippines is extremely robust and we will continue it. It's one of our premier programs and good news stories when it comes to our CT programming.
Michael Lawler
And there appears to have been real progress in addressing the CT mission in Indonesia, with no deaths in the last three years. Can you give us an update on the latest with respect to counterterrorism there?
Joel Borkert
Yes sir, again, Indonesia is a huge success story. We've been doing counterterrorism programming with them for over 20 years. Our assistance has led to over 1,300 arrests of suspected terrorists with 100% conviction rates and the disbandment of an FTO along with those responsible for the deaths of US citizens.
Michael Lawler
Al-Qaeda figures have found shelter in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, especially after that disastrous withdrawal in 2021 under the Biden administration. What is the Bureau's current assessment of Al-Qaeda's operational presence and freedom of movement inside and outside of Afghanistan, and has that presence grown or diminished?
Joel Borkert
Thank you for that question. We do not recognize the Taliban obviously as a government. They remain specially designated global terrorists. One of the reasons why is because they do offer safe, a safe haven for Al-Qaeda. I would defer to you to the intelligence community on how much they are able to operate within Afghanistan and whether there's been a growth in that, but they do continue to harbor those terrorists and that's why we, you know, continue to press them to not do that and to abide by their agreement that they have with the international community.
Michael Lawler
Pakistan remains a critical if complicated partner in the fight against terrorism in South Asia, given its long border with Afghanistan and its own history with militant groups. Can you speak to how the Bureau works with Pakistan on counterterrorism and where that partnership has been most effective and where concerns remain, given their checkered past over these past 25 years?
Joel Borkert
Yes sir, I would say when it comes to Pakistan, our counterterrorism partnership with them is one of our more, is very, it's strong. It's one of I think one of the bright spots within our relationship with the Pakistanis. We have active programming, approximately, we have approximately 30 million dollars in active programming across not only Pakistan but also Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, but much of that is with Pakistan. We do an annual CT dialogue with them every year. We just wrapped that up a few weeks ago.
And so a lot of our effort with the Pakistanis is to help provide them with the ability to protect their borders. We're also doing some new programming with them to help facilitate some of the, on the commercial side of the house. And so I think when it comes to Pakistan, you know, this is an area that we continue to, a partnership we continue to mature.
Michael Lawler
And what role is CT Bureau playing in addressing the terrorist threat in Nigeria, and how does the terrorist threat tie into the targeted violence against Christian communities in the north and in the middle belt? And what programming is CT operating or considering for Nigeria?
Joel Borkert
The protection of Christians in Nigeria is this administration's number one priority. I've traveled out to Nigeria actually twice just this year. That shows how serious we are about tackling this issue. We're using all elements of our national power to address this issue. CT tools like security assistance, diplomatic engagement in ways to more effectively burden share to stop the violence is what we're doing.
We have two robust programs right now in Nigeria. One helps support their forensics lab and then another helps with the countering their terrorist financing.
Michael Lawler
Lastly, when the department designated the first eight cartels in February of 2025, critics called it symbolic. Since then, the department has designated 20 groups across the hemisphere. The leaders of both Jalisco New Generation Cartel and Tren de Aragua are dead and Maduro is in US custody. What have the designations made possible that was not possible before and what do you consider the bureau's biggest win in this space?
Joel Borkert
Yes, thank you for that question. When it comes to the narco-terrorist, you know, they use assassination, kidnapping, territorial control and violence intended to coerce governments. So this administration rightfully designated them as terrorist organizations. Designations are a powerful tool. It's opened up the entire CT architecture.
I think some of the big things that it's allowed us to do is not only go after individuals and corporations for material support, but it's also allowing us to do security assistance in order to be able to train these countries to address the threat within their country and prevent that violence from spilling over to the to America.
Michael Lawler
My time has expired. I now recognize Representative Moskowitz for five minutes. We will recognize Representative Crane for five minutes.
Elijah Crane
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to our esteemed witness for being here today. September 11th, 2001 is a day that is etched into our memory, a day that will always mark unimaginable loss, a day that we will never forget. We remember and honor the victims and their families, as well as the brave men and women who answered the call on one of the darkest days in our nation's history. And now we must continue to tell that story with honesty, honor the people we lost, and stand with the families who still carry that loss.
As Congress members and Assistant Secretary, we also must remain steadfast in our commitment to preventing such evil from ever gaining hold again. With the increased use of AI for criminal enterprises, can you share how the Bureau of Counterterrorism is working to address the use of artificial intelligence to counter terrorism?
Joel Borkert
Yes, thank you, sir. There are multiple agencies and other bureaus that have the primary mission to assess and develop tools to effectively address the use of emerging technology like AI. The Counterterrorism Bureau, we're collaborating and coordinating with these other entities to counter those emerging threats. And we have and we are leveraging the full CT architecture to counter this threat. We have the new Emerging Threats Bureau in the Department of State.
And so my team has been working very close with them. As a person who's seen us effectively adapt to the evolving terrorist landscape over the last 25 years, I'm confident that we will adapt ourselves and continue to do so.
Elijah Crane
And as the Bureau of Counterterrorism adapts to a changing landscape and new threats, how can Congress work to best support all four sectors of the Bureau?
Joel Borkert
Yes, sir, I think just when it comes to resourcing, ensuring that we have the necessary resourcing to be able to do this, that our appropriations laws are passed and it gives us enough time to really be able to program out into the future, so it gives us the ability to be able to do that. And I think right now we have the necessary authorities to do what we need to do.
Elijah Crane
What most concerns you about the evolving technology landscapes in counterterrorism?
Joel Borkert
Great question, sir. I mean, I think there's a lot that concerns me. Again, I know we've talked a lot about AI and the use of AI. I think some of the things that concerns me, and I've actually stood up a team in one of our offices to look at emerging threats, I'm calling it Counterterrorism 2035 and Beyond. So I think terrorists being able to leverage AI to perhaps develop like a bioweapon, you know, terrorists are going after critical infrastructure, things like data centers and stuff like that.
So being able to really set the conditions now in order to address those threats in the future is something that is near and dear to me and something that we're doing. And so those are the things that I think really concern me.
Speaker 25
Thank you, Representative Kane. I now recognize Representative Wilson for five minutes.
Joe Wilson
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here today. And what an incredible time. I actually see positive, and that is with Turkish and Saudi Arabian assistance, the Assad dictatorship in Syria has been removed. The Assad himself, the dictator, has fled to Moscow. With that in mind, a 54-year Ba'athist dictatorship has been overthrown, and now we have a new government that I am really grateful that President Donald Trump has identified to give Syria a chance upon his meeting with President Ahmad al-Shara' in Riyadh.
With that in hand, now Syria is taking a larger role on counterterrorism, having joined the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS, and with the new government expelling Iranian-backed terrorist organizations from Syria, including intercepting weapons smuggling operations from Iraq intended for Hezbollah in Lebanon, and there is tremendous opportunity for peace and prosperity and stability thanks to President Trump's vision where he's identified that we have a greater opportunity for stability, peace, and prosperity in 3,000 years. I would let him know it's 8,000. Damascus was founded 8,000 years ago, so he's really understating. What more can be done to support the Syrian government and enhance intel sharing to proactively address potential terror threats?
Joel Borkert
Yes, thank you for that question, sir. The Syrian government is working with us against ISIS, and they are denying space to groups such as Hezbollah, and this has been a good news story. Our priority is to prevent the resurgence of ISIS and Al-Qaeda, to protect US interests, disrupt external operational threats, and help our partners support Syria. So I think right now the Syrians really have the will, but now it's trying to ensure that they have the capability to do this.
So some of the things that we're doing is we are working with the D-ISIS coalition. We actually have a meeting in October where we're bringing the Syrians. We're also in and we've asked for the types of needs that they have and we're really trying to work together as an international community in order to be able to build up their capability. It's going to take a long time, but they like I've said, they have the will. Now it's the international community's responsibility to help them get there.
Joe Wilson
I appreciate that attitude very much. Lifting state sponsor of terrorism, lifting any and all regulations. There's still some regulations on labor issues of all things that inhibit investment in Syria. And the Syrian diaspora, particularly in the United States, are very successful economically, understatement. And we would like for them to be able to have an effort to restore what could be a very prosperous country.
Additionally, how important is it to have stability in Syria and sovereignty in terms of preventing terrorist resurgence as Iran is trying to destabilize the country by dividing by ethnic groups?
Joe Wilson
How important is it to have a sovereign, stable Syria as it's being because of the potential of terrorism? What I'm getting at, okay, is that Iran is dividing the country by different ethnic groups, whether the Druze, the Alawites, you name it, Kurds. And in between that would create an opportunity for ISIS.
Joel Borkert
Yeah, it's extremely important for them to be able to maintain their sovereignty to ensure that the Iranians are not leveraging the different groups in Syria to try to break it up. I think from the State Department's perspective, we are monitoring that situation. Ambassador Berndt works really closely with the Syrians to address these threats. We in the Counterterrorism Bureau, I lead a counterterrorism working group where I bring the entire interagency together. We've been doing this for about a year and we're not only looking at ISIS and Al-Qaeda, but also Hezbollah and some of those Iranian-backed proxies and really trying to see what the interagency can do to counter those in order for Syria to maintain its sovereignty.
Joe Wilson
And in the next, you can get back with me later, but two of my sons served in Iraq to help liberate that country. And so it's particularly sad to me to see the inability or maybe just overlooking the Iranian-backed elements of the Popular Mobilization Forces which operate under the direction of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. What's being done to as there's a withdrawal to indeed ensure a sovereign Iraq? You can get back with me. Thank you.
I yield back.
Michael Lawler
Thank you, Representative Wilson. I now recognize Representative Burchett for five minutes.
Tim Burchett
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a pleasure being here. And thank you, sir, for your willingness to endure this. And I'm stalling right now till I find my notes here, which my crack staff was supposed to, oh, I got them right here. I know where they are.
Thank you. And being the 435th most powerful member of Congress, sir, I'm usually the last one to ask questions. So after you've answered this question the third time, the first thing you need to say is...
Beloved.
Tim Burchett
I am beloved. That is true. But you need to every time a question's been asked multiple times, you say, "That is an interesting question, sir." That is incredible. So in the aftermath of the October 7th terrorist attacks, Hezbollah was essentially eliminated, allegedly.
We always hear these groups are eliminated and they seem to pop up, but it's gradually recovered. Why are terrorist groups of this caliber so difficult to eradicate? Is it the mindset of the people or is it something that's just been infected or how do you eliminate it?
That's a very interesting question, sir.
Thank you. I concur.
Joel Borkert
No, I, no, these, I think there's multiple reasons why these, these groups are, are very difficult to address. A lot of it I think is their own ideology, but I think also a lot of these groups are, especially in the Middle East, are backed by Iran. It is the leading state sponsor of terrorism. And so when you have these groups are have the ability to to get a lot of the cash flow that they that they can get through illicit means, then then they're just they're they're going to continue to proliferate and grow. And so I think that's one of the reasons why it's very important to go after the financing.
Us in the CT Bureau, we do that, not only through our designations authority to allow Treasury and others to be able to to target those financing, but we're also helping build our partners' capability and capacity in order to be able to target these terrorist financing.
Tim Burchett
You know, in the Old Testament, I read my Bible, well, I don't read it enough, but I'm a Christian, but I do read the Old Testament probably more than I do the New Testament. It always struck me that when they destroyed an enemy, they destroyed the enemy. I mean, they just burned it to the ground. I don't know if we're we're capable of doing that or not. We always seem to throw a lifeline to some of our enemies and that seems to cause part of the problem, I guess.
How can we, the US, when I say we, how can we sever ties between terrorists and their state sponsors? I've I've had this conversation with the president and I've talked about, you know, our military is our last deal. It's economics it seems on the front end that we can cut a lot of these people off.
Joel Borkert
Thank you for that question. I'm in Jeremiah right now, so I try to read my Bible also. The Old Testament's fascinating, so always enjoy reading the Old Testament. But to answer your question, I think I think it's it's difficult to to be able to do that. You know, when it comes to Iran again, they are the leading state sponsor of terrorism.
I think we're doing Operation Economic Outcast. And so I think part of what we have to do to really dry up their finances is to, you know, work with our partners and our allies in order for them to go after their funding. And and it's a whole-of-government approach. So we do what we can in the department. I know Treasury's doing what they're able to do and really leveraging the entire CT architecture to go after some of these, you know, this illicit financing.
The IC's working it, DOD actually has the capability to also go after some of these financing. So it's tough, but that's something that that this administration has been focusing on as as a priority.
Tim Burchett
Has there been an ideological shift in the terror landscape? It seems to me, I mean, you know, we always talk about this stuff hasn't changed since we always say since the time of Christ or whatever, but it just seems to me it they get a little more advanced because of their weaponry, but their savagery and beliefs don't seem to change much.
Joel Borkert
Sir, yeah, I mean, I think on some of these Islamic terrorist groups, their ideology is the same. I think other groups might be more motivated by financial reasons. So I think it depends on what group. If you're looking at the narcoterrorism, which I think we rightfully have designated, the reason why they operate is much different than why Islamic terrorists operate.
Tim Burchett
I've run out of time, but I want to thank you so much. When I watch those videos of those dirtbags who rolled, terrorists, whatever you want to call them, they're criminals, that rolled in on Gaza and just did horrific things to those poor Jewish folks. And it reminded me of my daddy was talking about in the Pacific with the Japanese, how they, what they did in China and they did to some of the Okinawans and others. So I just, doesn't seem there's any new sin under the sun. It just keeps recycling itself.
Sorry, Mr. Chairman, went over.
Michael Lawler
You're good. I now recognize for a second riveting round, Representative Moskowitz.
Jared Moskowitz
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right, so now that you've hit your stride, let's talk about your favorite topic, right-wing extremism. I'm just kidding, we're going to talk about ISIS. And thank you, Tim, thank you for the end of your testimony. So obviously during the transition in Syria, right, as we were transitioning some of these detainees, some of them escaped.
Do we have an estimate of how many of these high-valued ISIS detainees, how many of them have escaped, or how many of them are still at large, let's say that?
Joel Borkert
Thank you for that question. The intelligence community, I believe, has some estimates, but I think we would need to discuss that in a classified setting.
Jared Moskowitz
Okay, is it fair to say that there are still people that were in custody that are no longer in custody?
Jared Moskowitz
Okay. So I mean, obviously at some later point in time, I think that could be a good, I'm not going to press you on that now, but I think that could be a good use of the committee's time to get a briefing on the current situation and what efforts we're doing obviously to remedy that. Let's talk about Syria in general. What is the current status of ISIS in Syria? We were making progress, no question about it.
The US had been involved in some limited strikes to help the new Syrian government. How would you assess it today? Is ISIS there now gaining ground again? There are some reports that they were losing ground, we were making progress, but now we're seeing some new resurgence in Syria.
Joel Borkert
Thank you for that question. I would say ISIS is still a problem in Syria. From what I've seen, I don't know if I would call it a complete resurgence. I would say that the Syrians are taking this problem seriously, and we have seen them go after ISIS. So we will continue to help support them in those efforts.
I will say on the detainee issue, the fact that Iraq was able to take so many of the detainees, that that was a good news story. They're in a safer place now that they're located in Baghdad. So I think the threat is still there, but...
Jared Moskowitz
Do you anticipate more US military strikes in that area to assist the Syrian government?
Speaker 11
I would have to defer you to the Department of War on military strikes.
Jared Moskowitz
Okay, but do you do you look at the that's that's fair. Do you look at the current threat level there needing more military assistance? Understand that will be made up to the Pentagon, but in your assessment, do you think you know, is the situation such that you know, you don't think more strikes are needed or that you do think probably we're going to see the balance of the year more strikes there?
Joel Borkert
When it comes to strikes, I would again defer to the Department of War. I'm not an expert on on where we need to on on the strikes themselves. I would say when it comes to Syria, we are in a positive place. We continue to monitor it. We continue to do the hard work to support our partners and allies in the region, to include the Syrians, to include the Iraqis.
We still have a military presence in the region. And so right now where the where we are at, I think we are more than capable to manage the situation that's that's in Syria.
Michael Lawler
Thank you. I thank Mr. Borckert for the valuable testimony and the members for their questions. The members of the committee may have some additional questions for Mr. Borckert, and we will ask you to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record, subject to the length limitations. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.