Committee on Security and Defence Ordinary meeting
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Speaker 4
And for Ukraine, this is not a matter of choice but of responsibility to those who have been defending the freedom of our country and the security of Europe for more than 10 years. So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you again for giving me the opportunity to talk to you today. Thank you for your attention, and thank you for all your systematic support to Ukraine. Slava Ukraine.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Thank you very much, Natalia. As agreed during our visit, is she still there? Okay. We will organize an exchange of views on Ukraine veterans during one of our future committee meetings, and I would be delighted to welcome you to Brussels for our committee. And dear colleagues, Ukraine's security is Europe's security, and we will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes to ensure it can achieve peace through strength.
A huge majority of our citizens recognize this and are asking Europe to do more. Brave Ukrainian citizens have shown Europe the way and bought us previous years. Now, we must continue to do our part. EU citizens call for support for Ukraine and to strengthen European defense. And let it be clear: enough is enough.
We must stand up to bullies and aggressors and defend our values and democracy together, all together. So take care, Natalia and Slava Okhaini. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
You are always welcome.
Thank you. Bye. Bye.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So, yeah. Dear colleagues, we have to be on time because August was waiting, and so we changed the picture a little bit so she couldn't see that we are not so crowded today in the morning. So, dear colleagues, we will continue with Ukraine, and I will debrief you on the ad hoc delegation of our committee to Kyiv that took place two and a half weeks ago. For this mission, I was accompanied by Wawter Beke as Kremerswen Mixer and Pierre Rumin Theony. I cannot stress how important the visit was for Seder.
The timing, occurrence, and peace negotiations were taking place in Abu Dhabi during a so-called ceasefire on Ukraine's energy infrastructure. We did not see any evidence of a ceasefire. We heard eight raids, syringe, and reports of attacks on energy infrastructure and civilian populations. We had meetings with ministers in freezing rooms because the heating and electricity were cut. Even at our final press conference, we sat in the dark with only our telephones and torch to see, while generators were started to bring on the lights.
All in all, we witnessed the humanitarian tragedy affecting the brave citizens of Kyiv, and, of course, this all amounts to more evidence of Russia's lies and illegal attack on civilians. And today is the end of the fourth year of Russia's bloody and illegal war. The bravery and courage of Ukraine in standing up to this murderous bully is also standing up for the security of each and every one of us in this room. Ukrainians are dying for us all, for our security, and buying us precious time to rebuild European defense so that we do not have to suffer as our brave Ukrainians have been doing today and every day for the last 4 years. Our aim was to convey the European Parliament's unwavering support to Ukraine and to listen to Ukrainian military needs for achieving peace through strength and defending itself against Russia's war of aggression.
We stayed two days in Kyiv and held high-level political meetings with our colleagues from the Verkhovna Rada, various ministers and ministries, the office of the president, the mayor of Kyiv, anti-corruption institutions, and civil society representatives. We also had the opportunity to discuss firsthand the military and security needs of the Ukrainian authorities to ensure that the EU continues to respond to Ukraine's defense priorities and that the EU delivers on promised security guarantees that meet Ukraine's needs. This was particularly important in light of the European Parliament's vote on the Ukraine support loan for 2026 to 2027, which includes a specific budget of €60,000,000,000 dedicated to Ukraine for military capabilities. Our delegation also had the opportunity to learn from Ukraine's vast experience and innovation in adapting its defense industry in response to operational realities, with the visit of a drone factory and an underground drone exposition facility. These visits were also important following the European Parliament's recent adoption of the European Defense Industry Program, which should lead to more common European defense procurement.
The strengthening of the European and Ukrainian defense industrial bases and promoting the integration of the European and Ukrainian defense sectors. Dear colleagues, let me emphasize again the importance of remembering why we must keep our support to Ukraine. We could witness the dire situation in the country under dramatic weather conditions, energy shortages, and no sign of a ceasefire. However, Ukrainians do not want to be praised or admired for their courage, strength, and ability to defend themselves. They want our support, and we must act more quickly.
And now I want to give the floor to our colleagues who were part of this delegation. Now I see that nobody is here already. So, to make a long story short, I can just tell you it's very important to travel often to Ukraine, to be there, and to see what's going on. It helps to make the right decisions for every country because we know that not all of the countries of the EU are really supporting Ukraine. So, our job is to talk to our governments and force them to do more.
Speaker 5
So, thank you very much, and now we have a ten-minute break. So, dear colleagues, thank you very much. It's great to see so many Italian friends. On the invitation of Elena Donassan MEP, I would like to welcome a group of 50 participants of the study visit from the Italian Institute for Advanced Defense Studies of Rome. And I'm particularly pleased to welcome Admiral Andrea Quatomateo, who was the force commander of Operation Aspidis when SEDE recently visited and spent two days on your flagship.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So, welcome, and really, Admiral, it was a great experience, very helpful for our work, and it's always good to be where the problems are. Then it's easier to explain to people what's going on and how important your job is to be there on the Red Sea to protect all the ships coming along. So, a warm welcome to Brazil in the Committee of Security and Defense. So, dear colleagues, good morning. And our fourth today is an exchange of views with Lieutenant General Andre Denck, Chief Executive of the European Defense Agency.
So, Andre, welcome to our committee. The EU's efforts to strengthen defense readiness have placed the European Defense Agency at the center of the stage. The October European Council called for reinforcing the agency to fully play its role in defense capability development, research, and acquisition. In the same spirit, the High Representative urged the agency not only to advise and facilitate but also to act and lead. We understand that, in response to these calls, you have initiated a process to strengthen and restructure the agency.
So, Andre, please tell us the priorities for the agency in 2026, how it is responding to the need to do more to strengthen European defense, and how we can support the agency in meeting these challenges. So, you have the floor for 10 minutes.
Speaker 6
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Dear comrades, first, let me thank you, Madam Chair, for your kind invitation to address the Committee on Security and Defense. Today marks the fourth year of Russia's illegal full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and I would like to take this moment to reaffirm our resolve and unwavering support. We stand with Ukraine. We remember the fallen, and we honor the resilience of the Ukrainian people.
As Ukraine enters its fifth year of war, Europe's surroundings remain unstable, with rapidly evolving dynamics making the future unpredictable. Against this backdrop, Europe is adjusting to burden-sharing dynamics and moving towards greater responsibility for its own defense. Therefore, advancing and fostering EU defense cooperation is imperative. And yes, we are indeed already doing a lot, but member states need us to do more in supporting them. That's why heads of state and government, at the European Council, identified EU-level priority capability areas while recognizing EDA's central role in supporting member states' defense capability development.
And it is in this context that the European Council, last year in October, called to, I quote, strengthen the European Defense Agency so that it can fully play its role in the field of defense capability development, research, and acquisition, unquote. The white paper for European defense, Readiness 2030, has, of course, reinforced these efforts by establishing financial instruments to incentivize defense cooperation and to bolster the European defense technological and industrial base. We now have SAFE and the EDIP regulations. Today, I would like to update you on EDA's strengthening and explain how EDA supports member states' rearmament efforts. But first, let me quickly recall a few elements about the European Defense Agency.
We are an intergovernmental agency directly funded and steered by the ministries of defense. So, we do not belong to the commission. The political head of the agency is the High Representative, Kayakalas. We support ministries of defense throughout the entire capability development cycle, from setting priorities—what is needed immediately—to fostering collaborative research, technology, and innovation. Ukraine has proven how important innovative solutions are. We help member states harmonize military requirements for procurement and, for ambitious mid- to long-term programs, aggregate demands. Aggregating demands towards joint procurement, buying together, achieving economies of scale, and using the same equipment leads to more interoperability.
And interfacing with EU civilian and defense policies, and voicing ministries of defense joint positions. So, we are the MOD's advocates here in Brussels. Now, let me state upfront that the implementation of the European Council conclusions is the highest priority for the agency. We have significantly stepped up our work to support member states' rearmament efforts, alongside strengthening the European Defence Agency. Because rearming Europe is an ambitious endeavor, our support spans all time horizons, addressing both short- and long-term needs, and thus actively supporting the readiness agenda.
Let me first turn to the short term. Our immediate response to the EUCOTASC was the establishment of a government-to-government matchmaking platform for immediate off-the-shelf procurement, a platform that, in the meantime, contains hundreds of existing contracts—contracts that were concluded by a member state and offered to other member states for their use. The platform helped member states prepare their procurement plans for SAFE, as you know, with the majority of member states' plans already approved by the council. The platform continues to support member states in identifying opportunities for joint procurement, including within the context of the 9 priority capability areas supported by EDA. Indeed, EDA's nine priority capability areas are also reflected in the alignment of our way of working.
So, we have aligned our working bodies to this logic, and we provide the lead nations per priority capability area. We have 1 to 5 lead nations. We support them with content and administrative support. And I'm glad to be able to report significant progress here. We see growing engagement, as the priority capability areas increasingly serve as key vehicles for preparing proposals under EDIP.
So, the EDPCIs, the European Defense Projects of Common Interests, have already seen several proposals from the member states. Let me mention that drones, counter-drones, integrated air missile defense, and artillery systems are particularly active, and lead nations have already identified clear levels of ambition and capability objectives. EDA is also supporting member states in pushing forward short-term, capability-driven innovation. Just to give you some examples, last year in June and July, we conducted an operational experimentation campaign for logistics drones. So we developed logistics drones for military use near Rome.
And only a few days ago, we tested unmanned land vehicles in Arctic conditions as part of EDA's Combat Unmanned Ground System project. Practically, this means that we enhance the use of combat unmanned systems with a higher degree of autonomy and transform legacy equipment into unmanned systems. The final demonstration of this project is planned for this autumn, where testing will move from cold weather endurance to different deployment scenarios. These experiments have shown how we are helping move new technologies from the laboratory to the field. Based on member states' feedback, we are expanding EDA's innovation portfolio to include more experimentation and help member states keep pace with increasingly rapid innovation cycles.
Turning now to the mid- to long-term horizon. Last year, in December, at our ministerial steering board meeting, we presented ministers with opportunities to collaborate. Projects are primarily focused on strategic enablers. As you know, critical enablers such as command and control, space assets, air transport, and intelligence are shared pan-European requirements. Needs that Europe must increasingly meet itself, particularly in the context of burden shifting.
We are working with ministries of defense to advance the most mature and promising projects. Let me also turn to our research and mention one example: LEO 2 v LEO, a project and a proud example of collaborative research and technology. This project is set to develop the first military defense satellites worldwide, transiting from low Earth orbit to very low Earth orbit and back again. Practically, this means that, for the first time, an EDA-led project will go into orbit with the launch of the first satellite expected already next year. These are just a few concrete examples of very successful EDA research projects supporting member states.
We currently have 145 projects either ongoing or in preparation. So, we are a very practical agency. Concerning the strengthening process, ministers of defense endorsed the launch of work at their steering board in December last year. The strengthening of EDA is guided by the needs to scale up research, technology, and innovation; consolidate EDA's central role in capability development; and develop EDA support for more defense acquisition. In other words, joint procurement of simple off-the-shelf equipment or services, building up an agency fit for purpose, and finally, also leveraging partnerships.
The process has been set in motion, and we are in the middle of the discussion among the member states to really reshape and reengineer this agency. Ladies and gentlemen, as you can see from my presentation, we are working at full speed, on all time horizons, and in parallel with the ongoing fourth CART cycle, the coordinated annual review on defense. And I'm confident that the forthcoming annual defense readiness report, which will build on CART and other elements as tasked by the leaders, will be able to report encouraging elements. My message today is simple. At this very moment, European cooperation is absolutely essential.
It is imperative if we mean more EU independence seriously. We must make the best use of existing tools, ensuring that we work together for the member states' benefit. This is the best way to deliver quick and effective outcomes, which is EDA's objective and the reason why we are strengthening the agency. And this requires smooth articulation between intergovernmental priority setting and project development, where member states make use of the Commission's instruments and support while remaining in the driving seat. Finally, let me express my appreciation to the Parliament for hosting EDA's industry conference on Thursday, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing you all there.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Thank you very much, André. I may now give the floor to the members for a first round of questions, starting with the coordinator for two minutes, Nicolas from EPP. The floor is yours.
Speaker 9
Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you very much, General, for the introduction. I think that concerning the priority capability areas, the 9, I think that 9 are too many priorities. I was taught at university that you have no more than four priorities. You don't have any.
But, anyway, I think that now you are continuously reviewing this priority as a result of the warfare in Ukraine because four years of war in Ukraine have taught us a lot of lessons. And I think that this should be, in your revision process, continuously incorporated: how many lessons we can draw from the warfare in Ukraine in order to update and modernize these priority capability areas. How are you working in this particular field? And if you allow me a couple of remarks on the institutional front, Article 55.2 of the treaty foresees the use of a qualified majority for EDA. Well, how are these debates going?
The second one is IDAP personal status dates before the entry into force of the Lisbon Treaty. Although the Lisbon Treaty established the single personal statute for the European Union, the Council decision on setting up the IDA was never updated, and the EDA personnel were never brought under the single EDA personnel statute. Are you working on that in order to fix this legal problem? Thank you very much.
Gunsfield, thank you.
You, Mr. Merci.
I'll switch to.
Speaker 11
Much thanks also for all the work that you're doing, and I think it is very necessary work on the coordination of procurement. We know that we are paying a price. At the moment, there is a premium because we are not coordinating our procurement. We do it alone. We do it separately.
I think the Ministry report once referenced numbers of up to 30% for high prices that we pay as a premium as a result of that. These are old numbers. I'd just be intrigued to know whether you can actually put a number or an estimate on how much we're saving or what the potential savings would be according to your calculations, given the coordination work you are currently doing. That would be on the supply side and on the demand side. And I would also have a question for you on the supply side: where do you see the biggest barriers? On the one hand, we have bigger contracts.
But on the defense, actually, the defense industry is actually being able to deliver. We are talking at the moment in this committee a lot about the common market of defense. And I'd like to hear your views on how far you can also contribute from EDA to actually pushing for common norms and standard certification. And the last point is also on the cooperation with NATO, where we may be able to push further for NATO standards in EU procurement. Thank you very much.
Speaker 14
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, General, for your presentation and all the work you are doing. And obviously, the EDA role will just grow in the future. But my question is quite practical. Of course, the amount of money is very important in defense and development, but even sometimes more important is how we work, not just the money.
Speaker 15
And in history, we can see that we have some issues with the speed and with the flexibility of the rules, especially when we talk about research and development in times when the innovation cycle is weeks in some areas, not years. So, what's your comment about that? What can be changed in the speed and flexibility of financing, especially for research and development? Thank you.
Speaker 18
Thank you very much for your presentation and your work. Two sets of questions. One of your priorities. On innovation, you mentioned several examples. I'd like to know what the role of EDA is in supporting new generation technologies, especially AI.
Speaker 16
Do you have specific projects focusing on the role of AI in military equipment? My second question would be: what is your role in facilitating military mobility, if any? And then, on the methods, can you tell us how you managed to work with the European Commission? What are the distinctions, differences, and ongoing cooperations? And on the procedures, you started by saying that we live in a new world where history has accelerated, and the threats are increasing.
Speaker 19
Is there an effort to change the procedures of EDA to make your agency work or allow it to work in crisis mode? Thank you.
Speaker 17
Thank you, Madam Chair. And General Deng, thank you for your report and for your service in the European Defense Agency. Often, when I am listing the updates here in the reports in the security and defense committee, I find myself asking how many years we are already in a state of war, basically. And how is it possible that four years after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, we still cannot produce a sufficient quantity of munitions, interceptors, and missiles, both for our own defense as well as for Ukraine? So, in your view, what are the main bottlenecks here?
Speaker 20
Is it the lack of sufficient orders from the governments to the industry that justifies the large-scale production? Is it the shortage of critical raw materials or supply chain bottlenecks, or is it a problem of industrial cooperation and coordination at the European level? Because it certainly cannot be due to the lack of funding. This has increased significantly both at the national level and at the EU level. Thank you.
Speaker 6
Let me go step by step, and I would start with the nine priority capability areas. Nine areas are a lot of priorities indeed, but much has to be done. And throughout the last decades, I've served for 40 years now in the military forces, and I have seen only a decrease in capabilities and quantities. So things have changed significantly throughout the last year. I would say, generally speaking, we are on an excellent path, but still, it does not happen overnight.
So, we are lacking capabilities in all areas, both in quality and quantity, with the additional challenge that we have to update these capabilities according to the needs and innovative cycles. So, as for the lessons learned from Ukraine, you're completely right. This has to be duly taken into account, and it is. It is. So the nine priority capability areas are indeed informed by lessons learned in Ukraine, without forgetting that the war of the future might look different than the trench war that we now see in Ukraine.
I sometimes have discussions about whether main battle tanks might still be needed in the future. Of course, they will. If you want to seize terrain from a military perspective, then you need equipment that is able to do so. Drones will not be sufficient. And, at the same time, drone warfare is a fact and has to be duly taken into account.
And there are a lot of things that we still have to do. On qualified majority voting, yes, that is in the Council decision of the European Defense Agency. It is an option. So far, there has been no need to apply this QMV because we have achieved a unanimous approach among the member states in view of our activities. So that is definitely an advantage.
And for the council decision, it's true, it dates back to 2015. And now we are busy with other things, but the council's decision has to be reviewed in a short time. This is on our agenda, but not for this year. We currently have other priorities, and we don't have nine priorities. I would say we have three priorities: the support of the member states, the annual defense readiness report when it comes later this year, and also the reengineering of this agency.
On joint procurement, that is an area where we will need to do far more. We have done EDA joint procurement of artillery ammunition, recently anti-tank ammunition, CBRN and defense equipment, and soldier systems. But I think that we also need a European solution for more procurement. And that's why we propose right now to the member states, and it's up to them to agree or not, that EDA does more joint procurement of simple off-the-shelf equipment, which is very much needed in terms of quantity, and also of services, as we currently provide medical evacuation for missions and operations in Africa or satellite communication services. Standards.
We have a big set of standards: NATO standards, civilian standards, national standards, and EDA is referencing these standards in a way that provides member states with best practice standards. So, we are not reengineering or reinventing EU standards for military purposes because a double set of standards, NATO and EU, is simply not affordable. So we are sticking to NATO standards, and they are referenced in our database, which is accessible to almost everyone. Yeah. Money is important, but how we work together is also important, and we have to change quickly.
I can only agree to that. We are currently at EDA, changing our procedures and settings, but the general idea of being the cooperation platform of the member states remains. And then, at the end of the day, it's a member state's decision whether to cooperate or not, whether to go alone, to cooperate via WhatsApp, to cooperate through a NATO scheme, or through the EU. It's ultimately a member state's decision. But EDA is the EU's defense cooperation platform.
And, from my observation, this is really picking up. The interest is growing significantly. We see this in the priority capability areas, or named capability coalitions. There are 9 of them. And I think it is well understood in the capitals that this is definitely the future.
On artificial intelligence, it is one element of the priority capability areas, and that's a big work strength of EDA. We have an action plan for AI. We work in our capability technology groups with member states' experts, research technology organizations, academia, and industry exactly on this topic. And we now have two lead nations that will move the AI topic further forward. Military mobility is not a new topic, of course.
And EDA has been working on military mobility in two dedicated domains, where we provide expertise. That is the cross-border movement permissions. There are technical arrangements that were drafted by the EDA for the use of the member states. And the second point is customs, where we provide expertise to this endeavor, and military mobility remains high on our agenda. And it is, by the way, also one of the priority capability areas because it's the prerequisite for NATO to organize and conduct collective defense if needed.
You mentioned the cooperation with the commission. We, of course, need a clear delineation of roles and responsibilities. For me personally, I'm quite clear about that. So, we are representing the member states' demand side. We are organizing the priority setting.
We bring the member states together. And the commission, as we all know, has the tools to incentivize cooperation, and this is very much needed. And the regulatory power to cut red tape: you're now negotiating the defense omnibus, which is really important. And that's why we have a good working relationship with the Commission colleagues, specifically with DG DEFIS and SecGen. And I think this is something that member states can really expect from us: that we duly cooperate here.
But, again, we are the member states' voice, and we represent the member states. Well, changing the procedures for crisis mode is exactly what we are doing now with the strengthening of EDA. Whether this will lead to overnight procurement or immediate procurement, I have doubts because procurement takes time. You have to negotiate contracts with industry to move on. It takes time, but we have proven that we were able to conclude framework contracts on 155 millimeter artillery ammunition within seven months.
That is unprecedented, even for procurement agencies. So, it can go very quickly, and that is also our ambition. Well, on the defense industry, and why they aren't able to deliver in quantity and on time, I wouldn't see it as black or white. You see a lot of camp companies that really show entrepreneurship in Europe and are able to deliver, and others less so. And I would say it's probably a mix of the reasons that you already mentioned.
A lack of orders, or let's say, a lack of long-term reliable orders from member states. The critical raw material that is always a choke point, specifically in the production of missiles and ammunition, and I think we should see more industrial cooperation. For the European Defense Agency, it is our mandate to strengthen the European defense industry, the EU defense industry. My mandate is not to one day buy American or South Korean products. We support the European defense industry.
And for this purpose, we will see here at the European Parliament a conference for the European defense industry this Thursday, with more than 800 participants in person and online. Thank you.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So, we continue with Thys Reutten. No. Sorry. First of all, Gustaf Goma, and then Thijs Gustaf.
Speaker 21
Thank you, Madam Chair. Beyond the excellent work carried out by the agency, it's important that you don't rely on the commission. I fully agree with this point. I have a question. Are you working on space and the creation of a sovereign cloud?
Indeed, we are not doing enough to protect our satellites, and we are not investing enough in space. As for digital technology, if we want to be independent and self-reliant, it's urgent that we develop this cloud. Thank you.
Speaker 23
This? Thank you very much, Chair. Look, everything you said, I understand. I think you are doing a good job. You are technically on point, but it also reflects this whole debate, the discussion, and the reactions, even from our parliament, that we are in deep shit.
Speaker 22
We have a big problem. Because of a simple question on QMV, which we desperately need. You answered, but I know it is going well. We don't need it. This is the problem.
The problem is that I don't know. Did you read, for example, the CSDP report that this parliament adopted in January? There are quite a lot of paragraphs about your agency in it. We asked them to coordinate, not to do it. Oh, I represent the member states. No, we need one, not 27, one C2 capability.
And we asked, can you please launch a project together to initiate a C2 capability in Europe? One, not 27, not just one of France, Finland, or Italy, one. And also the example that you say, no, they are cooperating quite well. I hear very different stories of the cooperation between the European Defense Agency and DEFIS. And I'm saying this in a public meeting, which I probably shouldn't, because it shows that we are not on par with the tasks that were asked of us. But where is the sense of urgency with the member states regarding the situation we are in?
We cannot afford to stay in this nationalistic approach to defense spending. Yes. We are working together as long as it happens in my country. It's just unacceptable. And I think that we together do not share—I mean, I'm the only one that comes close is Mr. Stakis. I'm a little bit more emotional because I'm half Italian.
Maybe that's the explanation. But we are not doing the right things at the right moment now. And I regret to say it, but I'm really disappointed.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Thank you very much. Even the Netherlands could be emotional. I mean, I'm from Germany, and sometimes we are also emotional. So, the next German colleague is Hannah from the screens.
Speaker 24
So, what do I say after Thijs now? Trying to be the unemotional German. General, it's good to have you here. You know the drill already. The European defense industry strategy is now two years old, and it has some benchmarks.
And as every year, I ask you: where are we when it comes to these benchmarks, which, I'm going to point out again, by 2030, at least 50% of member states' defense procurement should be devoted to procurement from the European defense industrial base? And the second one, by 2030, member states should procure at least 40% of defense equipment collaboratively. So, I understand all the technical discussions, reforms, and everything that's happening in EDA, but does it actually help us reach these goals? Because it is already one-third of the time until 2030 that we have worked on these goals. So, are we moving closer?
How has it changed in the last 2 years? That's the first question. Second question: you said it so nicely. We just provide the platform for cooperation, but it's up to member states to then cooperate. Which ones are actually cooperating?
Which ones are not? Can you at least speak in terms of clusters or something? Maybe big ones, small ones. I don't know what the decisive criterion is, but I think it's also time that we are a bit more transparent, including about our frustrations when it doesn't happen. And the last question: I'm asking you this not as a representative of the member states, but as the boss of EDA with a lot of experience in what works and what doesn't.
We are currently discussing the setup of the ECF here in this committee. How do you think the European Competitiveness Fund should be shaped in the next MFF so that we actually reach some of the strategic goals of the White Paper and Readiness 2030?
Speaker 27
Thank you. Certainly, we live in uncertain times, and therefore, I agree with you and your point that it's very important to take these European steps forward. I would ask you, how far Europe is from being able to defend itself in different scenarios? If the scenario is that the US is no longer on board, we don't know that. It shifts according to the weather.
Speaker 26
But how much would we be able to do on our own right now in a scenario where Ukraine is still part of the Western defense project? Because I do not dare ask the question if it's part of the Russian control, but I think Will Mendez said it's never going to come to that point. And how quickly would Europe be able to put in place the capacities that would be needed? I think that's a fundamentally important question to answer. And also, I am elected in Denmark, which gives a special approach to this because we share intelligence with a country that threatens to attack us.
I mean, that puts a lot of fundamental questions about the capacities that Europe has to be able to do on its own. But how quickly would that be possible? Thank you.
Next, it will be Christian.
Speaker 31
Thank you so much. I have a few specific questions. One is in regard to military mobility. You touched base on it a little bit, but I would like you to share more with us what exactly needs to be done on our side to make sure that, especially heavy military equipment, can easily move from west to east and from south to north, and vice versa. The other topic is the relation with the United States.
Speaker 30
Some of my previous colleagues have already pointed out or raised different concerns from different perspectives. I saw two or three days ago an op-ed in political.eu cosigned by the US ambassador to the EU and to NATO, where they raised concerns about common procurement, for example, that US companies, mainly defense companies, cannot access the safe funds. You know, what is your position on that? And if you think the European defense industry can fully replace the American defense industry. Last but not least, the defense of borders.
We were on an official visit with my colleagues in Latvia, and we were able to see the border with Russia. It's fully exposed, and it's not only in Latvia. It's the same situation in Estonia and in many other countries. In the CSDP report, we insisted that we should allocate funds for these countries that have direct borders with Russia to make sure that we build some kind of defense, which is more than just a drone wall, in order to stop any intrusion of Russian forces into our territories. What is your take on that and the needs?
Speaker 32
I'm going to be quite short. Sorry for being late. Talking about EU borders. Recently, about a week ago, we had a report by the European Commission making a reference to protecting the eastern borders of the EU. Do you consider that the eastern borders of the EU are under threat, extending also to the Eastern Mediterranean, given the casus belli by Turkey against one member state and especially the continued occupation of Cyprus by Turkish militaries?
That's my question.
It is yours.
Speaker 6
Thank you. It's almost everything. Where should I start? Let me start with space. Space is a domain in military operations that is of utmost importance, of course.
Are we now able to replace all assets that are provided by the US? No. Shall we strive for that? Definitely. Is EDA working on space in many different areas?
It would take now 20 minutes. Just two or three examples. We are now harmonizing the military requirements for an earth observation geospatial system. This is exactly the DNA of the EDA. We bring the member states together to agree on military requirements.
Is that something visible, politically relevant? Can you shoot with it? No. But is it important? Does anybody have to do it?
Yes. And that's what we are doing right now. And, perhaps as a second example, we now saw a proposal for an EDPCI, European Defense Project of Common Interest, that covers integrated air missile defense and early warning. An early warning from space is so important, and that's exactly what we are working on right now in these priority capability areas. So PCA sounds a little bit abstract, but it's concrete work.
Will it be delivered immediately tomorrow? I would say probably not. Does it have to be delivered within the next few years? For sure. And that's only a small part of our space activities.
Now on QMV, and I understand your impatience, and I don't want to mix in the political debate on that. The only thing that I can report is that at the European Defense Agency, we so far were able to achieve unanimous decisions by the family of 27. I'm not saying that one day it might change and that we might go to QMV for various reasons. I'm only speaking for the scope of the European Defense Agency, and I have to say that this really makes us stronger when we agree on QMV. And now, the impatience about the command and control system.
Of course, it makes sense to have one for the 27, probably for the 28 if we also count Ukraine and other partners like Norway. But the reality is that security and defense are member states' prerogatives. Who is going to impose on the member states what they are going to buy? That's a core problem or a core challenge, but I want to be very honest and blunt with you. EDA is a tool for the member states.
It's not an agency that imposes on the member states; you'd better make this decision now. And this is an issue that has to be reviewed, probably by the founders of the European Union and by the European Parliament, amongst other things. Now, with EDA and DEFIS, I have to say it's a little bit like being at home within our family. We have excellent days, and sometimes we are not fully aligned. But we live together, and we have to live together under one EU roof, and that's what we are striving for.
That's what we are doing. And, honestly, on my level, Timo Pison, Harold Reuters, they all briefed you here. I have excellent working relationships. Excellent. That's true.
Also, on the working level, we have many activities. Look. We are now implementing, together with DEFI's colleagues, an innovation program. You might have heard of EU BraveTech, a €50,000,000 European defense fund project, hand in hand with the Commission, where we find European innovative solutions for Ukrainian operational challenges. So, we will take on Ukrainian challenges.
We will go to the European market, again, the European, not beyond, ask for solutions, and then test and evaluate these solutions, funneling them perhaps from 20 proposals to two viable proposals to be able to hand them over to Ukraine for their use, but also to the member states for their use. So, this is really going hand in hand. And, again, it's the family approach that you might also see at home. Well, disappointment, I get the point. Of course, we need to become quicker.
And sometimes, I ask myself: what else can we do? What else can we propose to do to be more active? But I also have to say that cooperation is not easy. Doing it all alone, spending your money in one C2 system is already very complex. But agreeing upon a C2 system among 27 is really complex.
In view of the defense industry, we have a strong defense industry all over Europe. And it's not only the big countries; it's also the small countries that need to get a piece of the cake: the defense industries. I'm not advocating for the defense industry itself, but we have to find a solid balance. The benchmarks, which are stressed in the European defense industry strategy—for instance, 50% of joint procurement—are very ambitious goals, and we'll see whether we will land there. But one observation that I have made throughout the last months is that the appetite of the member states to cooperate more has grown significantly.
Whether we will land at 20%, 30%, or 50%, honestly speaking, I cannot tell you now, but the appetite is there. And you see, by the way, some big projects, politically very ambitious projects with two or three member states involved, which are already quite complex. Well, who is cooperating and who is not? That is difficult to say. The only thing I can tell you is that specifically the smaller member states are more inclined to use the EDA for procurement.
And the big ones should be.
Speaker 6
And they do. And they do. Just an example: our government-to-government platform, the big countries like Germany, France, Italy, and, of course, others immediately offered existing contracts to support smaller countries so that they can take advantage of the safe loans they can immediately buy without going to the market themselves and negotiating new contracts on their own. So this is, from my perspective, really growing, and it has a lot of potential. Well, is the EU able to defend itself?
Well, is the EU able to defend itself if the US is no longer on board? The US is currently providing the bulk of the strategic enablers, so let's be realistic. Currently, we need the partnership. We need all allies within the NATO alliance to defend ourselves.
How quickly would we be able to replace US equipment? This will take time. We need to be very realistic about that. We are now filling Europe's most urgent gaps. They are ramping up their military inventories. And this is going at high speed.
If the US is no longer on board, it is currently providing the bulk of the strategic enablers. So, let's be realistic. Currently, we need the partnership. We need all allies within the NATO alliance to defend ourselves. How quickly would we be able to replace US equipment?
That's at least my observation. Replacing US strategic enablers, if one day necessary, will surely take time. This goal does not happen overnight.
This will take time. We need to be very realistic about that. We are now filling Europe's most urgent gaps. They are ramping up their military inventories, and this is happening at high speed. That's at least my observation.
Perhaps. On military mobility, I think there were a lot of action plans. A lot has happened in various areas: infrastructure, cutting red tape, customs, cross-border movement permissions. But we definitely do far more here.
Replacing US strategic enablers, if necessary one day, will surely take time. This goal does not happen overnight. Perhaps on military mobility, I think there were a lot of action plans. A lot has happened in various areas: infrastructure, cutting red tape, customs, cross-border movement permissions, but we definitely do far more here. I can only tell you that, when I commanded a logistics battalion several years ago, it took, at that time, four weeks to get the permission to travel to a Polish training area, and that, fortunately, is no longer the case.
I can only tell you that, when I commanded a logistics battalion several years ago, it took four weeks to get the permission to travel to a Polish training area. And that, fortunately, is no longer the case. So this is a challenge that has been overcome. But still, I think, specifically in the infrastructure domain, a lot more has to be done.
Protecting. The eastern border: the best protection is to be able to truly deter the adversary. That's the answer for me. You cannot secure every meter of the border with Russia and Belarus. That will be very difficult.
So this is a challenge that has been overcome. But still, I think, specifically in the infrastructure domain, a lot more has to be done. Protecting the Eastern border, the best protection is to truly deter the adversary. That's the answer for me. You cannot secure every meter of the border with the East, with Russia and Belarus.
But deterring Russia is the answer, and that's what we are working on. We have to step up our military capabilities. We have to be credibly deterring Russia. Yeah. Yeah.
So, the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, whatever we do, always has the famous 360-degree approach. I recently visited Cyprus. I was in Nicosia. I met the Defense Minister. I met interlocutors there.
That will be very difficult. But deterring Russia is the answer, and that's what we are working on. We have to step up our military capabilities. We have to be credibly deterring Russia. Yeah.
And EDA also fully serves this purpose. And we are not only focused on the East, but we have a 3.6-degree approach. That means that we strengthen all member states in their efforts and their military requirements.
Yeah. So, the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. So whatever we do always has the famous 360-degree approach. I recently visited Cyprus. I was in Nicosia.
Speaker 6
I met the Defense Minister. I met the interlocutors there. And EDA also fully serves this purpose. And we are not only focused on the East, but we have a 360-degree approach. That means that we strengthen all member states in their efforts and their military requirements.
Speaker 6
I missed one from you, Hannah. On the European Competitiveness Fund, perhaps only one issue to mention. My plea would be to make sure that all activities under the ECF fully take into account existing tools that are in member states' hands. Like the Capability Development Plan, the Coordinated Annual Review on Defence, and PESCO, I think it is now important not to reinvent the wheel. But to make full use of the already existing tools.
Speaker 6
Please. Yeah. I missed one from you, Hannah. On the European Competitiveness Fund, perhaps only one issue is mentioned. My plea would be to make sure that all activities under the ECF fully take into account existing tools that are in member states' hands, like the capability development plan, the coordinated annual review on defense, and PESCO.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So first of all, a big welcome to our guests. Bye, and take care. Looking forward to seeing you again. At Marill. Thank you very much.
So, do you have any questions? Sorry. Yes. Costa, take the floor. Just one.
Speaker 6
I think that it is now important not to reinvent the wheel, but to make full use of already existing tools.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So first of all, a warm welcome to our guests. Bye, and take care. Looking forward to seeing you again at MERIL. Thank you very much. So, do you have any questions? Yes.
Speaker 32
If we have a little time, I was going to ask you if you want to be in Cyprus for the next CEDA meeting. In March.
Speaker 6
Are you gonna be there? I will be in Cyprus on March 12 for the next Foreign Affairs Council, Defense, and then there are many other activities in Cyprus this year, of course. Within the presidency and the council.
Please, Costa, take the floor.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Maybe you have questions later then. Take your chance. Okay. So, thank you very much. It's really important and interesting.
Speaker 32
Just one, if we have a little time. I just want to ask if you're going to be in Cyprus at the next CEDA meeting in January. Are you going to be there?
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
And, of course, an invitation for Thursday would be great. If you join us. And yes, you will see us in Cyprus. On the 12th of March, two. So we have a break until 2:30.
Speaker 6
I will be in Cyprus on March 12 for the next Foreign Affairs Council, Defense, and then there are many other activities in Cyprus this year, of course, within the presidency of the Council. Maybe.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
You have later questions, then? Take your chance. Okay. So, thank you very much. It's really important, and it's very interesting.
In the afternoon, 2:30. Sorry.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
And, of course, an invitation for Thursday would be great if you join us. And yes, you will see us in Cyprus on the 12th of March too.
Very good.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So we have a break until 02:30. Until 2:30. Next is the plenary session. Okay. In the afternoon, 2:30.
Sorry.
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