Committee on Employment and Social Affairs Ordinary meeting
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EMPL European Parliament
Follow its sittingsSpeaker 2
I did hear, of course, the parliament's clear call for a budget of €20,000,000,000 for the child guarantee. And as you know, the multiannual financial framework for the next period is now in the hands of the co-legislators to decide. Then I would also mention an important objective of '26, the fair labor mobility package. It is an objective that is very much linked to the future of the single market and in particular to the free movement of people, of workers across the single market. Our fair labor mobility package is going to be the social pillar of the single market strategy.
It will deliver on the commission's commitment to modernize, to simplify, and to digitalize rules and processes in labor mobility and in social-security coordination. It will also lift barriers to labor mobility created by the lack of portability of skills and qualifications. Now the package will consist of three main initiatives that we can go into deeper: the SPA, Social Security Pass, strengthening European Labor Authority, and the skills portability initiative. On the Quality Jobs Act, in December, we presented the Quality Jobs Roadmap, which is a road map indeed. It doesn't, has the ambition to specify beyond the beyond the level of a strategy, but it did do an important thing.
We launched at the same moment the first stage social partner consultation on a quality jobs act. Now the consultation that we the first stage consultation is completed, looks at issues like algorithmic management and AI in the workplace, health and safety, subcontracting chains, just transitions, and enforcement. It complements the consultation that we already had gone through on the right to disconnect and on telework. 34 EU-level social partners have responded to this first phase consultation, and we are now analyzing their input with the aim to launch the second stage consultation in the coming weeks. Of course, we will take into account also the important resolutions adopted by the European Parliament, which will guide our work.
We are also well aware of the need for simplification. We want to reduce unnecessary administrative burden, especially for companies, while ensuring that existing rights are properly enforced. We must first wait for the outcome of the social partner consultation, but I can state this, that our aim is that the quality jobs act is to be presented by 2026. A few words in the end on the next multi-annual financial framework, our budget. In July, we presented the next long-term EU budget looking at security, competitiveness, migration, energy, climate.
We understand these important challenges, and that is why at the heart of the next multi-annual financial framework lies something that is even more fundamental, and that is the people. Funding for social spending in the next MFF has been secured and protected. Firstly, within the national and regional partnership plans, a minimum of 14% must be dedicated to social spending. This minimum 14%, from which we can expect that member states can go higher according to their specific needs, ensures that at the current level of prices, we have a minimum allocation in social spending of €100,000,000,000, both grants and loans. And this is quite important.
The minimum social spending will be assessed against every plan proposed by a member state. If that minimum spending doesn't exist, of course, the plan cannot be approved. Then social investments are mainstreamed within the NRPPs, providing a comprehensive list of actions for the member states to invest in people. And for the first time, social spending will be tracked across the entire NPF. A system will be put in place to ensure that systematic and transparent monitoring of the contribution from our EU budget towards social objectives is performed.
Second, we look at the competitiveness fund that is part of the new MFF, which foresees extensive opportunities to provide support on skills, including the skills guarantee for workers and for vocational education and training. The current commission proposal ensures a decent budgetary allocation for social and employment investments. Honorable members, every one of these initiatives moves our social agenda forward one step at a time. I think we have important work ahead of us. It is not easy work, but I count on your collaboration so that we deliver together, because together, we are the European Union for our citizens.
Thank you.
Li Andersson
Thank you very much. And we then move on to the first round. And it's two minutes per question, and three minutes for the answers. So much time. Starting with Mr.
Ratke from the EPP.
Speaker 3
Mr. Ratke is going to speak German.
Madam chair, Roxanna, a warm welcome to you, and thank you very much for giving us this opportunity to have an exchange of views. Also, just, on a general note, talking about the role of this committee, we have been keeping a close eye on your work and being as constructive as possible, also with a view to the democratic means available that we have, we always try to come to a sensible solution. But there are a couple of things I would like to say. I think there are some real question marks here about your communication. And perhaps I can kick off with that, with the topic of the MFF.
Speaker 7
This was mentioned on a number of occasions. I don't agree with the direction adopted by the commission because I don't think this is satisfactory. What I want to hear from the commit commission is a clear commitment so that during the next MFF, there will be a standalone ESF, and I have not yet heard that. I can be very clear about this. If that doesn't exist, I would never agree to that in any case.
Speaker 5
And I'm not alone in taking this stance. The European Commission needs to stop these silly games, and that is the clear message I wanted to send to you. My second specific question for you is about what's happening when it comes to planning a social omnibus. The omnibus procedure is something that I've always supported in many different ways, but I share the commission's view here that we need to have less red tape, less documentation, and less regulation. I think we all agree on that.
Speaker 6
But the discussion that we come back to about having a social omnibus and also what a social omnibus should be should encompass, this seems to have been, it's also been shifted elsewhere into the EWC directive, etcetera. So I would like to see a clear commitment from the European Commission about what is happening there now and what the plans are. Thank you.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Amy Piratke. On the first question, the decision on the stand-alone ESF is now in your hands, parliament and the member states. The commission has indeed proposed that integrated architecture with a national plan where we have safeguarded for the ESF for the social investments, a minimum 14% investment. Obviously, if legally and institutionally, the two co-legislators decide for a different approach, this is totally possible. But what I try to emphasize is that within the commission vision of an integrated approach and looking at social policy, fighting poverty, supporting workers, many times we understand how important it is to have the integration of the financing streams and the coherence and synergy there.
There are arguments for this. This is what we put on the table. And, of course, what I emphasize all the time is that we have a budget. The budget starts from at least 14% of the allocation of each member state, without which the plans cannot be approved. But if it will change to a different type of financial architecture, this depends only on the decision of the two co legislators, which I will, whose work I will facilitate and support with all my power so that we have the strongest possible outcome on the allocation and on the mechanism to deliver the allocation on the social policy.
So you count on my support as you decide. Then on the social omnibus, there is no social omnibus. Obviously, I've had encounters with social partners. I've met representatives of Business Europe who proposed a number of initiatives, potentially part of what they consider a social omnibus. I've engaged with them, responded to them.
We will continue to have a dialogue with them. But beyond that, in the college of commissioners, there is no discussion on initiating a social omnibus in itself. I think that we need to look at simplification with other tools like I do on fair labor mobility, with the SBAS, like we do with the e-declaration, on the posting declaration. There are ways that we can make things less burdensome for companies and for the administrations of our member states without reducing rights or our ambitions toward protecting our people. So my also, my engagement with colleagues in the commission is exactly this.
We simplify by, first of all, using the digital tools, using, you know, mechanisms to report in a streamlined approach. If we propose new initiatives such as the quality jobs act, we look at gaps and not at, we don't create overlaps, but this is the approach. So I cannot report to you on any social omnibus because this social omnibus is not planned by me or my colleagues.
Merci, madame.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Speaker 8
Yes. Thank you very much. Yes. It's good to tell you about a meeting business in Europe. Yes.
Speaker 13
That's your prerogative, but let's be very clear here. In terms of what our demands are for a social omnibus, focusing on the transparency directive, well, we think that it is unacceptable because we have a gender wage gap. We've been trying to resolve it for the last 70 years, so having a directive, well, that's not looking at that. So it's very clear here, because otherwise, you're essentially being very sexist. Secondly, the attack on the directive on working time.
Speaker 12
So you're calculating this across the whole year, and you're going to be making people work an awful lot for three months and then nothing. So there's no way of flexibility on that. So I'm not going to continue. But it's perfectly normal for you to meet people. But then you're talking about the directive on platform workers.
Speaker 13
That's unacceptable as well. So we're going to be able to talk about this further down the line. But when we talk about Business Europe, exposure to chemical products and all of that, it's unacceptable. And then for the MFF and the budget. So you gave a very clear opinion in the EMPO in the interim report.
Speaker 12
Our position was very clear, stand alone. So we want a European social fund which is guaranteed, and we want to have at least the current financing. This cost will be indexed because the proposal which is on the table for a lot of member states, essentially, it is half. It's half of the finance to finance the fight against poverty, employment policy. So we'll be able to discuss this further down the line.
Speaker 9
But as we see it, the commission's proposal is not acceptable, and we really do want to preserve the European social fund for the future. And when you're talking about fighting poverty. We can't fight against poverty unless we have the money for the child guarantee. The globalization adjustment fund, we were voting on that this morning. And I imagine that, essentially, this is going to die a death when workers need this to be protected.
Speaker 10
So this is just a few additional comments I want to make. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2
Thank you, MEP Cullman. Yes. As I mentioned before, I've had and I will continue to have engagements with our social partners on how we regulate, how we simplify equally. I can only agree with you. I've stated this publicly.
We have a gender pay gap in salaries, in pensions, even worse. We have a good tool at our disposal, the pay transparency directive. How we implement it for micro enterprises, small companies, is of concern to me as well. And with the colleagues in the commission, we work so that we can support our member states to implement it in a way that is not burdensome for especially the smallest companies, but we cannot walk back on it. And it's the same, of course, with platform work and with all the topics.
But, again, I engage constructively because I think there are many times solutions that we can find inside the legal framework that we have worked so much to adopt together with you and counsel as well, and we can work inside that framework to make things simpler and easier. On the MFF, again, all support to colleges, letters, so that the final outcome of the budget, looking at the overall size of the budget, and then at the numbers for, again, especially the social policies, are as big as possible, of course, higher than what the commission put on the table. Yes. I what could I say then that I would do my best to facilitate any such outcome. And on the EGF, indeed, there are in the architecture of the next MFF, there is a different approach to how we can support and respond to crisis, including a more general crisis mechanism that can be activated, but it is a topic that we can continue working on as well.
Gracias, presi.
Speaker 11
Thank you very much, President. Thank you very much, the executive vice president. On February 27, apologies. I'll give you a moment. Thank you very much.
On February 27, you and the commissioner responded to a citizens initiative, My Choice, which wanted to put in place a financial mechanism to offer support for abortion. At the same time, the European Union does not have competence in this domain. It seems that there are sufficient arguments to stop this discussion. You, at this moment in time, said that other existing funds could be used, such as the European Social Fund, with this new purpose. I think that this has created a great deal of confusion.
How can we try to offer financial support for an objective that the European Union doesn't even have competence in? The ESF was created to improve employment conditions and living standards. The access to abortion was not part of that objective and is not in line with the regulation that it covers. There are a number of different interpretations of this, but there's no regulation that establishes this under the treaties. There's a real concern here about any social action which is there to protect the defenseless.
We're talking about poverty today. There are mothers who are finding it extremely difficult at the moment. I'm not sure what the European Commission's position is, why you're going against the treaties and the original values of the European project. The European Commission has financed a number of organizations, civil society organizations, or so called, with this initiative. I don't believe that this is a correct way of acting because there should be neutrality, a neutral stance.
Speaker 14
We know that there are many of us. There are many people who defend the right to life. How do you think we feel when we see money flowing to these purposes from our funds? Thank you.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Indeed, My Voice, My Choice initiative signed by some 1,000,000 European citizens asks for a solution to offer vulnerable categories of persons, women in this case, access to affordable health care. I would put this in the framework. And the ESF was analyzed from the perspective of a funding mechanism that already supports member states and vulnerable categories in member states in their efforts to offer access to affordable health care on different levels, different vulnerable categories. So there was no need to create a new tool, no need to look.
And, of course, the demand was very respectful of the competencies of commission member states of not in any way trespassing those competencies and looking at the voluntarily based financing mechanism. And the ESF is such a tool. We do not change anything about it. We just state that inside the eligibility possibilities of this mechanism, voluntarily, those member states that wish so can reschedule or reprogram a part of the financial resources to offer access to affordable, safe abortion to women that need it. So we are not changing anything in the mechanism.
We are not interfering with competencies. We are simply working under the chapter that is already eligible, access to affordable health care to vulnerable categories. And this is the framework of our response.
Speaker 16
Thank you very much, chair. I have a question that is strongly related to the EU's strive to increase its competitiveness, and that is the matter of efficiency. The our low competitiveness is, of course, high labor costs. That is not a secret, including a lower efficiency of our workers compared to the US or to Asia. The two most important issues in this area are work culture, one thing.
Speaker 17
Here, we could point towards the trend of shortening the working week in many countries. And another issue, which is the low degree of digitization and use of robots in Europe. What is your view on this problem, commissioner? Is it possible to solve it? And if yes, where do we see a chance for breakthroughs?
Speaker 16
And another issue that I'd like to raise is the impact of the demographic developments on the labor market. We do see that the demographic situation in Europe is really catastrophic. It has a huge impact on the labour market. And thinking that we can replenish our labor market with migrants, is this the right direction? Because data shows that at least 15% more migrants are jobless in Europe.
Speaker 15
So, is this really a solution to the problem taking into consideration the demographic disasters? Thank you very much.
Speaker 2
Yes. On the first topic, we have always said that part of our quest for competitiveness is quality jobs and the skilled, talented workforce. I do not think that the work culture or any type of behavioral aspect with our workers is to be touched in this quest for competitiveness because we have our European social model, which makes Europe the preferred place to live, to work in, to raise a family, and we need to uphold this for us and the next generations. But indeed, we have a productivity gap. We have a competitiveness deficiency, and we need to make sure that we act on technology, on capital, on simplification, but also to improve the quality of jobs in those sectors where people do not choose those jobs because of the health and safety, wages situation, and also to improve the skills and the education of our workers in those sectors where the skills do not match what the companies are actually asking for.
That's why union of skills and the quality jobs roadmap at ACT are two of my priorities. I think they contribute to competitiveness and to improving productivity. But, of course, there is a true impact of artificial intelligence, whether it's physical AI, whether it's AI per se, that will transform the set the skill set of any job, transform the structure of jobs, and we are preparing, all of us, to be able to embrace this from the perspective of both skills and how we operate AI agents and human agents in the world of work. That's why the topics that we have on the table are so important. At the same time, on the second topic, I would mention I would say that I would be consistent with the current approach of the commission on supporting demography in that we focus on how we support women who have children.
Childcare, I would announce now maybe that is a good moment that in 2027, I want to present the European Care Deal, which is an initiative looking at how we strengthen access to care, childcare included, and how we improve the working conditions of our carers. And this is quite important. So this is part of the response on how supporting women to be able to have children while staying in or returning easily to the labor market is part of the response and eliminating the penalty that many times they feel as they have children in their professional career. So, obviously, there are a number of responses that we put on the table on these topics.
Thank you.
Speaker 18
Yes. Thank you very much, and thank you very much, mister, miss Monsato, for being here again. Nice to see you. And also, I do want to compliment you on how the commission responded to my voice, my choice of initiative. I think it was very strong and necessary.
Today, I wanna talk with you about the council recommendation on human capital, and especially the role that the European semester is gonna play in that because it was adopted last week. And, of course, this recommendation emphasizes the importance of the strengthening of skills, education, and training systems in order to address labor and skill shortages and to improve Europe's long-term competitiveness. So my question is, how are we gonna act on this in the European semester going forward? Does this mean that we can expect human capital and skills to play a stronger role in future country-specific recommendations? For example, could we include measures related to the recognition of skills and the recognition of qualifications across Europe?
And could we also ask for recommendations for improving the access to European regulated professions, for example, in other member states? Or could you give me some other examples that we could really address on human capital in the European semester? My second question is about my concerns for vocational education and training and the apprenticeships because the recommendation clearly notes that the pathways are often not perceived as very attractive by students. Despite that, we know that it gains a strong employment. And what it calls for member states to really take measures to improve the attractiveness of VET.
Can you elaborate a little bit on what measure the commissioner, what measures you have in mind? Could you, beyond the instruments of the ESF plus or Erasmus, what can we do to make VET more attractive? Thank you.
Speaker 2
Thank you, MEP Vandenberg. So, indeed, the human capital recommendation is gonna be reflected in the country specific recommendations. For the first cycle, we focused on four key measures. I would mention them. Reversing the trends on basic skills, so we invite member states to look at this situation with basic skills that are at a satisfactory level.
You cannot talk about reskilling, upskilling, or preparing these generations and these people for AI, for an AI-driven labor world. Then we look at, building on STEM, on science, technology, engineering, mathematics, the educational pathways, be they vet or university. And the jobs in STEM are relevant not just for the competitiveness of sectors, but they're relevant also for the equality aspect. Obviously, it's important to see that women are not as present in STEM related jobs as men are. So there's a lot of gender dimension focus on stimulating more action and more initiatives on STEM education and skilling, reskilling at all levels.
Again, initial vet university, all levels. Then the third element in the human capital recommendation that will be reflected in the CSRs is investment in education and skilling. We will invite member states, but we look not just at public funding, but also private funding involving also the business sector to invest in these sectors that is fundamental for how we can help our people benefit competitiveness efforts across the European Union. And fourth, we focus on skills intelligence. This is something that I was in Rome discussing with Germany, Italy, and France.
There are different initiatives. We have our own observatory that we set up at the European level. It's not easy to set the forecast capacity that is as agile as the evolution in technology and in the economy, but we need to have this anticipation on what skills are going to be needed, how we can adjust our training and education systems to a better and more agile level. And beyond the skills observatory that we are setting up, we've also established the high level skills board, bringing together both the education provider, social partners, and a number of relevant companies. The composition will rotate.
And, this year, recently, we just approved also the person that will chair this high level skills board, and it is Miss Ilva Johansson, our former commissioner, who is being charged with this work. And on VET, we will present our VET strategy probably in November, part of the education package, focusing on exactly this attractiveness, inclusiveness of vocational training. I would mention that VET is very well reflected in the competitiveness fund. So not just Erasmus and the ESF. We've mentioned there that we want to finance partnerships, cross border partnerships between vet education providers and vet providers and businesses to support value chains.
It is important to mention also that, in the fair labor mobility package in September, we, as commission, will propose the skills portability initiative, and you will see there a number of legal proposals about recognition of qualifications, regulated and unregulated, but also a number of proposals on recognition of skills, how to use a bit, also the digital infrastructure so that we accelerate and simplify these elements from a commission initiative perspective. Thank you.
Speaker 20
Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you very much, Commissioner Minzato, for coming here today. So two issues that I would like to raise today. First of all, you already mentioned that the antipoverty strategy will be launched the same day as the council recommendation on fighting housing exclusion. And these, together with the affordable housing plan, of course, provide a unique moment to reverse the alarming rise in homelessness and to underline our commitment to end homelessness in Europe. Could you please elaborate how you will make ending homelessness a priority in the anti-poverty strategy, and what tangible measures and investments you will put forward to make sure the EU is at the forefront in ensuring everybody in the EU has a place to call home?
And secondly, I would like to raise some concerns regarding the 28th regime. While I recognize the purpose of the twenty-eighth regime proposal, it is clear that it has also significant implications on workers' rights. Under no circumstances should the twenty-eighth regime undermine the principles of European labor law, which determines that workers' rights are protected by the laws of where work takes place, not of the seat of a company one works for. Unfortunately, it seems that this principle is not respected in the commission's proposal. And trade unions and social partners have already identified and proposed solutions to some of the problems of the twenty-eighth regime proposal in regards to workers' rights.
So what have you done or intend to do so that the proposal will be revised to better respond to these concerns, and that the social partners would be engaged in that process in a matter reflecting a genuine partnership principle. Thank you.
Speaker 2
Yes. Thank you for the question on homelessness and housing. Beyond the council recommendation, if I am to refer, and we have the whole context set up in the affordable housing plan with the myriad of or a number of tools that were put forward as to how to better use financial instruments, the fine financial markets, you know, looking at the different, cohesion policy tools. So I won't go into that because the whole framework of financing is set there. On homelessness, we have acted and can continue to act with funds that are dedicated to social policy, the ESF currently, the future ESF in the next, in the next MFF, as well.
Looking at the approach, housing first, but, of course, we also need services to accompany the roof. This is quite important, and services are supported by ESF. It will be preeminent in the political objective will be preeminent in the anti poverty strategy. And the funding, again, is related to what we've already put in the affordable housing plan. We continue to support also the platform for homelessness, looking to work with people that experience homelessness so that peer work can be part of the solution that we deploy, and we support our member states to eradicate homelessness.
I think that it is important also to look at the incentives that we've given at the midterm review to member states as they use their cohesion policy funds to redirect money from other priorities to housing. They have a number of incentives, like for other sectors, so they can use it right now in order to tackle more urgent homelessness crisis if they so consider. Looking at the twenty-eighth regime, indeed, the commitment that was there and is still going to be there is that we do not touch labor law in any way, shape, or form with the twenty-eighth regime. It is a company law type of regulation. We're looking at how a company is set up, digitally, and that this type of aspects.
So in no way, the 28 regime should be used to circumvent labor law, such in a similar way as is any other type of legal company regime that exists now in the EU or can be used to circumvent labor laws. So, absolutely, this is not the intention. The important element that we've already always mentioned is that the twenty eighth regime is meant to ensure, to support, the full use of the single market for our companies, but without undermining labor or social rights. And I think that's, again, comparing with what we have already, legally speaking, as a possibility today in the European Union, the EU Inc. Will not change absolutely anything.
And this is the mindset and the, yeah, the vision with which, with which we work. We want to have equal treatment of EU Inc wherever they might be established, and the legislation that protects the workers on labor and social to be respected as it is right now.
Good.
Leila Chaibi
Afternoon. Good afternoon to the commissioner. Well, we've had a lot of pertinent questions, and some have been answered. But I'd just like to say I agree with the colleague who expressed concern before. My group too wants to have an ESF, which is separate, to keep the fund, therefore, as it is the only fund that's really sensible here from the point of view of European citizens.
And so it's really very important that we support it and that credits, funds are increased in order to protect it. We're in a period where purchasing power in Europe is going down, so that's all the more important. And also, on the question of the twenty-eighth regime, my colleague put the question, and thank you for answering that. On the question of housing, I'm very happy to hear you talk about homeless. You are in charge of the anti-poverty strategy, so we really need your work on that.
It would be very good to have a commissioner completely dedicated to housing that is out of your own portfolio. And I think that would be a good idea. It's very important to consider the social dimension of the housing issue. And we don't want to look at the issue only from the point of view of the construction lobby and the property lobby. So we really do have to have an input about homelessness, and we've got an objective to get rid of it by 2030.
So we all have to work together. And perhaps just a question now. On the question of the Quality Job Act, does that allow you to make some progress on the question of work and contracting out?
Speaker 2
Thank you. Yes. On the working that we do with commissioner Jorgensen, we work in a project group as well in the college. So we are together with colleague Ribeira with all the dimensions of the housing aspect, and I am the one making sure that housing for, you know, students, for youth, homelessness are implemented as proposed in the affordable housing plan, and also to look at the tools that we can put to the disposal of these initiatives. So we are doing this teamwork on the ESF.
I hear you, and I totally agree that we need the fund, that we need the allocation, that we need to allow member states to use it to the maximum of its benefit. But, again, it's now a decision that is here in the house and in the council, and I will facilitate with everything that is possible on behalf of the commission so that we have the best possible budget allocation and outcome for this fund. On the quality jobs act, indeed, the first phase consultation, well, expressed a bit, you know, the traditional positions of employers and trade unions, which we can, anticipate, on agreeing on the principle, but not on the methods maybe. You know? Yes.
We want to tackle quality, AI at work and algorithmic management, but how? Is it through more guidance or through rules and legislation? This is where the differences are. Yes. We think that, and here, we have sectoral approaches.
Subcontracting is a risk for workers and companies more in some sectors than in others. The question is how to move forward. Issue being that in the second phase consultation, yes, we will continue with the same topic to a more degree. Let's say, we will put more nuance and more details into our intentions looking at these exact chapters. We had an interesting, I would mention an interesting debate, me and the vice president, Virkonen, with experts, professors, but also companies on rules in EU, for AI generally and then context specific, frameworks for work.
We are doing our best to have a very comprehensive view. What do we need to do so that we have a human centric approach that human workers and AI workers work together, but that human rights are upheld, you know, and we do not undermine them. And we work towards this ambition. This is an important chapter as well. On subcontracting, we are mapping.
We have actually mapped a bit what is happening in member states on liability, types of liability, risky sectors. We want to go further to see on labor inspections, what more needs to be done, and this is linked a lot with the labor mobility package where we will also enforce the European labor authorities' competencies. So our intentions are on the table. We continue to exchange with our social partners, and we go into more details into this second phase consultation that would be launched in a few weeks' time.
Li Andersson
All right. Thank you very much. I have 10 requests for the floor for the second round. 11? 12?
So I will do them in two blocks, because it's too many questions to remember. So we'll have one minute for each question, five minutes for answers, and then another block. But before we go into that, just a question on my behalf as well, because we got an analysis of the social spending in the MFF from the Budget Expenditure Analysis Unit. I think some members refer to it, but just for clarification. Because the numbers they are giving us on total social spending differ from the commission assessment quite a lot, because what the budget expenditure analysis unit is saying is the total social spending in the proposed MFF, depending on whether it's the max or the minimum social spending in the NRPPs, is between 63 to around 87,000,000,000.
Speaker 25
Is it possible for you to just give clarification on why there is such a big difference?
Speaker 2
First of all, I don't understand how we can have a maximum. We only set a minimum.
Li Andersson
So it depends on how they used to cap money. So I think they have kind of counted on.
Speaker 2
We can look at the numbers. Our calculations looked at 80,000,000,000 loans, 20,000,000,000, sorry, grants, 20,000,000,000 loans. You know that percentages are calculated out of a whole, out of a total. That total has also evolved a bit from July till now with different discussions on rural development and agriculture, but our continuous debates in the college were to safeguard this 100,000,000,000 and our 14%. So, obviously, we can look at how they reach 67.
I do not know. But our assessments are those that I continue to support, and, hopefully, colleagues will confirm as we look at the numbers that you will provide us with.
Li Andersson
Because I would request for the whole committee. I've requested before as well that we could get a breakdown on how you calculate the 100 because now we have a separate analysis that shows very, very different, actually, because it's almost a third or almost a half the discrepancy. It cannot be that big. So we just need to get, I think, clarification on the numbers. Good.
Speaker 2
Very important. Then very important, look at the performance regulation, these indicators that in the end help us assess how we reach 8,100. So the performance regulation and the indicators are key to understanding how we assess the spending.
But okay. We'll get to next.
Li Andersson
Great. Thank you very much. Now we move on to the second round, and we're starting with Missus Abadia Hover from the EPP. And it's one minute for questions now.
Maravillas Abadía Jover
I'm going to speak in Spanish. Thank.
Thank you very much, executive vice president, for sharing these initiatives with us that the commission is currently working on. In particular, I would like you to develop a little bit more on the road map on quality jobs as well, which places employment right at the heart of European competitiveness, which is an objective that we fully share. But we have to be very clear. Quality jobs cannot only be understood from a deregulation point of view, but we also have to start creating real opportunities. In a number of member states, we're seeing that there are structurally high levels of youth unemployment, a shortage of qualifications.
There's a real disconnect between education and the job market. At the same time, there are many companies that are finding it very difficult to attract talent, which limits competitiveness. If we're looking for high quality employment, we do need to make sure that we have dynamic economies, growing companies, and training systems which are in line with our productive reality. It's not about choosing between social rights and competitiveness. Both need to go hand in hand.
So executive vice president, my question is, what is the commission planning to do with this future roadmap? How will it properly stimulate the growth of high quality jobs, especially for young people, rather than focusing purely on new obligations or new forms of regulation? Thank you.
Thank you. And, missus Mindia?
Idoia Mendia
Thank you, sir. Thank you, Vice President, for being here. When you speak about multidimensional antipoverty strategy, have you also included an intergenerational equality perspective? Because in my opinion, it must also address poverty in all ages and ensure decent pensions, especially for many older women. And the other sort of question is about fair labor mobility.
As the commission prepares the fair labor mobility package, how will you ensure that a stronger single market also means stronger workers' rights? And how will this package support upward social convergence across the Union? Thank you.
Speaker 29
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, dear commissioner. I've got a question on the Quality of Jobs Act. Actually, don't you think that to put inside both the AI at work and the right of disconnect is a little bit too much?
Because also for the legal basis, I wonder if the two, you know, topics can go together. And secondly, you have mentioned as for the AI at work, I was rapporteur for the platform workers directive that you are going to deal with the algorithm management, the human oversight of algorithms. And those two things were exactly in the platform workers' directive. So both the human oversight and the algorithm management, they are already there. So I just like to clarify that you can clarify those points.
Speaker 31
Thank you very much. Algorithmic management is spreading extremely fast across the labor markets, and now we're also seeing the impacts of the fast development of AI agents. And, we now are already seeing that they replace jobs. And, also, there is a new type of work-related stress, called AI brain fry. And as you are very well aware, in December, the European Parliament adopted its legislative initiative report on AI at work.
Speaker 33
We're clearly calling for legislation on algorithmic management in order to protect workers from undue surveillance and ever rising productivity targets. And I think we also recently have the hearing on Amazon, and it has only strengthened my conviction that rules. And department calls to include transparency in the use of algorithmic management, human oversight and review, ethical use, and prohibitions in line with the platform work directive in this proposal. So do you agree that the quality jobs act should mirror the architecture and main provisions of the platform work directive, and ensure a coherent and simple legislative framework? Thank you.
Konstantinos Arvanitis
Thank you very much. Madam Minsatou, I really appreciate your efforts, and I'm going to get to the point very quickly. For the roadmap, we've had an opinion from the European Commission at the last mandate, and it was very interesting. So we're going in that direction, which is good. Now the roadmap for quality jobs is a very interesting and important initiative because the situation at the moment is very difficult.
And I will send you a report which is drawn up by the left in Greece about this. Member states are underreporting these very significant accidents which happen at work: fatalities and accidents. So I don't want to waste time. So I'll get straight to my question. How does the European Commission, how are they going to tackle the underreporting issues, the underreporting of accidents and fatalities and occupational diseases which our European workers face?
I think it was very important to have an observatory for the problem. Thank you.
Thank.
Speaker 36
thank you very much. Madam Minzartou, commissioner. I would like to speak with respect but point out that there is a big divergence between the picture which the European Commission presents and what actually happens, for example, in Greece. There is an agreement, but that is not being respected in terms of social dialogue. And there are very few proper points of contact, therefore with the workers.
Maria Zacharia
And without authorization, many measures have been passed. And European funds are being used, €3,200,000 for 2025. And what I would like to say is that we don't have any proper measures in place for the signing of collectively bargained agreements for workers. And also, the coverage of such agreements in Greece is very low. So, how do you see that? This is a divergence between what is actually happening in Greece and what is supposed to be happening.
Thank you.
Speaker 2
Thank you. On the first question, I would answer that the quality jobs act is not the only answer for how we improve the quality of jobs overall. As I've mentioned, skills are an important part. So we act on the one side on skills with the union of skills. For example, remember I presented the initiative of the skills guarantee for workers, which we are piloting, and we want to then scale it up.
This is part of the union of skills, and this is quite an important tool to shift, where necessary, from a certain position or job in the same industry, company to a different position in a relevant company or industry. So, obviously, on the Quality Jobs Act, we are looking at potential gaps in regulation that need to be filled. And on the skill side, we need to invest better and to approach better the alignment between the skills and the labor market needs. So both are two sides of the same coin. Then on the antipoverty strategy, yes, we and we've just launched our intergenerational fairness strategy.
I will call it a new lens that the commission puts in place which is new not new. It's building on what we already have in delivering policy. So looking at poverty in all ages is extremely important. I've mentioned already that for me, it's extremely concerning looking at pensions in old age, at the gender gap in pensions between men and women, just to give an example of this entire dimension. So age will be approached.
Just like we look at the child guarantee, child poverty, we will look also at tools for tackling old age poverty. The fair labor mobility package does tackle a number of dimensions that are meant to uphold their social rights of mobile workers. All of them, if you ask me, in the end, the s pass, which is a digital pass for Social Security contributions, is a way to protect workers to make sure that their contributions are paid and that they are covered and that they are not exploited and then left out. Looking at subcontracting chains, again, we are looking to identify situations of social dumping and to be able to establish responsibility, liability so that workers are better protected in long subcontracting chains, including in cross-border context. Looking at third country nationals is also going to be part of our work and understanding how we can protect their rights as well.
In the end, I think that also in for strengthening the European Labour Authority, the competencies of Ella will also help that mobile workers in Europe have their rights respected. Then, on the discussion about quality jobs acts and the potential overlap with platform work directive, there, of course, is, you heard us whispering, but they cannot overlap because platform work regulates for platform workers. Quality jobs looks at, act will look at, and is looking at potential impact on all types of work, on all types of job places, and the impact of AI. And, of course, we can get inspiration from the approach in the platform of directive. We will see if that will be the case.
For now, we look at the consultation, the second phase consultation, and then we establish a path forward. But, obviously, I restate the principle that in a potential quality jobs act, we will not intend to overlap, but to look at gaps at elements that are not covered by existing legislation and that need to be covered because it helps our competitiveness and our European social model. So this is the rationale, and this will always be the rationale. We will use and are grateful for the report on AI, the resolution on AI that you've put forward, the ask, the demand for legislative initiative. So this is very, very useful for us indeed.
Looking at health and safety, it will be part of the consultations for the quality jobs act. So it will be reflected on a number of topics. Some, of course, with more, you know, support, other with different types of reactions, but health and safety will be part of the quality jobs act. It's interesting, and thank you for the proposal, the observatory. We have a number of platforms and tools, and I'm becoming a bit know, everybody's creating a new observatory.
An important thing is that they are efficient and that they are able to provide us with valuable data. And we can discuss a bit on how we can reduce the number of accidents at work and make better use of data, also using AI, which is a great asset in how we can collect and process data. And I think for OSH, for health and safety, AI is the greatest of allies, should be the greatest of allies, and we intend to use it to the fullest, so that we can help workplaces be safer. And then in Greece, indeed, I visited Greece recently. They implement, like other member states, the minimum wage directive, which has a chapter on collective bargaining, expanding the coverage of collective bargaining where it is below 80%.
The tool that was chosen, the tool beyond the plan. Every member state submits a plan to the commission, but the plan is a plan. What I've seen in Greece is also an agreement between government and European social partners, but, of course, the level of coverage is currently low. That is absolutely correct. There is a long way to go, a long way of trust to go, and we are monitoring the implementation of the directive in Greece so that it is properly implemented, and the quality of the social dialogue should be there.
And, again, looking at the use of ESF, absolutely putting all legal tools into work if there are breaches or investigations relating to our public money.
Li Andersson
Thank you very much. And, first up in the second round is Missus Murati from the APP.
Thank you.
Speaker 38
Thank you. The recognition of professional qualification in Europe is central to the functioning of the single market and to worker mobility, especially in the social sector where the free movement of skills can strengthen the welfare system. Now each member state defines the required skill, training pathway, and access conditions, and this leads to regulatory fragmentation and limited professional mobility. How does the European Union intend to address the fragmentation of training standards in the social sector and facilitate mobility for social professions? And how can recognition of qualification be used as a lever to strengthen the European welfare system in light of the upcoming demographic challenges?
Thank you, Rukhsana. Thank you, commissioner. Thank you.
Johan Danielsson
Thank you. Thank you to the commissioner as well. As one of the core rapporteurs for the e-declaration file in the parliament, surprisingly, I'm quite happy with the parliament's position because I think it strikes a balance between the simplification of having one single portal, but also making enforcement and protecting workers possible. And this would also then encourage member states to use the portal, which is a precondition to it having any value at all. But since we adopted our position, we have not been able to restart the talks with the Cyprus Presidency, and I think there is a role for the commission to play.
Because also if the commission perhaps had a more positive attitude or at least a more flexible attitude to some of the information points in the annex that are proposed by the parliament and in use in some of the member states, I think this could also help to find an agreement on the council side and then enable the negotiations with the parliament. So I would like to hear from you and also encourage you to proceed with this venue. And secondly, am I understanding you right that there will be a proposal on Third Continental posting and bogus posting of Third Continental within the fair labor mobility package? Then that you are continuing to pursue something on subcontracting, of course, we highly encourage it. Thank you.
Speaker 44
Executive vice president with the Commission. I have a number of questions regarding the strategy on fight against poverty that you will present in May, and you are speaking about child guarantee and ways to make it stronger. So I would like to hear more about the child guarantee, how you are planning to enforce it to make it stronger. And do you have the support in the college for the 24,000,000,000 for the child guarantee to be assigned? Then are you going to focus on the care workers, especially those who are providing non-formal care services for family members, for children, for those who are family members that are directly related to fighting poverty.
Speaker 42
How will also the strategy impact persons with disabilities? Thank you.
Thank you. And Mr. Angel?
Speaker 47
Thank you very much, Chair D'Aruxana. On March 10, we received as the parliament the response of the commission to our initiative report on AI and algorithm management at the workplace. It's a three-page document, and, of course, a lot is pending the discussion with the social partners. And you worry very much of the consistency with the legal framework, and the GDPR is very much mentioned and the AI act. But the platform directive is not mentioned in this three-page letter.
Speaker 43
And what is important for us is that all workers in the future will have exactly the same protection and transparency when it comes to aggregate management as the platform workers. We cannot have less, as in the platform directive. This is very important for us. A second question on the anti-poverty action plan. We know that access to services of general interest is the best to fight poverty.
Speaker 48
So does this action plan have an advocate in a special chapter on the access to services of general interest? Thank you.
And Mrs. Maoy?
Speaker 46
Yes. Thank you very much, chair. Thank you, commissioner, vice president, for being here with us. I have three brief points. One, the first one will not surprise you.
Speaker 45
I want to emphasize, like a number of colleagues already did, that the European Social Fund is of the utmost importance and that we need a stand-alone European Social Fund with a good budget and also with proper aims. And therefore, I think it's also important that you mentioned that you will facilitate some of the documents and some of the numbers that we are looking for, and that we have requested. Second, you've talked about the European labor authority and the competence between the labor authority and also the member states, but also on the fighting of abuse of labor migrants. And with the new mandate, can you share with us how this will be mitigated and how this will be fought, this abuse of labor migrants? And last but not least, it's great that you have announced the European Care deal, but I think we cannot see the European Care deal in its isolation if we look at the way in which minimum wages affect women in the workplace, pay transparency affects women in the workplace, the child guarantee affects women, and also the European Social Fund needs to have enough funds to also make sure that, as you say, improving conditions for those that work and that care. This is all interlinked.
So we need to also have an improvement on the other elements. Thank you.
Li Andersson
Thank you very much. And I have reached the end of my speaker's list. Is there any other member that wishes to take the floor at this point? If not, I give the floor back to Executive Vice President Mensato. So we have 10 minutes left.
So five answers. And then if you have concluding remarks, in addition to that.
Speaker 2
Yes. Many thanks. Now on the first question on skills in the social sector, obviously, the carers, the social sector is mobile in many dimensions, but we won't have a sectoral approach to the mobility and recognition. We will deal with it also as part of the skills portability initiative, looking at how to improve and accelerate and facilitate recognition of record of regulated and unregulated professions, looking at the common vocabulary for skills, not qualifications, and to be able to use all tools to create this shared vocabulary and helping member states use all tools to recognize the skills in the social sector as fast as possible. Possible.
So it's part of the skills portability initiative. It's an initiative that we will present probably in September, with, as I've said, the fair labor mobility package. But I think we will approach it a bit also in the European Green Deal. It's a bit too early to go into details. The European care deal, for me, it's a rather comprehensive package.
Access to services, people that work in the sector, meaning their training, and as well their working conditions. People that work or do informal work, so they can be family members. They can be, you know, part of the ecosystem or workers with a, you know, regular employment or some sort of employment situation. So it's a bit of a more holistic aspect. But as to the recognition of skills themselves, it's part of the portability skills initiative.
Then on the e declaration, yes, I will support I'm together with vice president coordinating commission's posture on this file. And, obviously, I am going to facilitate as much as possible. And I understand that the Cypriot presidency is resuming. It's going to intensify work probably, starting also with next week or something very soon to be able to push for work on this file. It is important, beyond the simplification aspect, that we see that the data that is going to be part of the e declaration helps us assess risks and protect posted workers.
So simplification, but also protection at the same time. And I think that we are in a good place, and we will, for sure, help as much as possible that the two colleges agree on a tool that is, that is, both supporting simplification and supporting workers. As I've said, the commitment on looking at third country nationals and that subcontracting stands, of course, we are preparing our files accordingly, looking at the different legal and nonlegal tools. I think that part of the fair labor mobility package, it is important that we look at the situations where we have third country nationals, to look at, you know, the way that companies that post them do or do not respect the rules. Our letterbox companies are not.
You know, there are a number of issues that we are looking at, so it's important that this topic is part of this package as well. Subcontracting chains, as I've mentioned, the second phase consultation in the quality jobs act will include this topic on fair labor mobility. We, again, also, are working on this topic, so they are part of our work. Again, on subcontracting, I will emphasize there is a complex debate. Folk, my focus is on liability, different types of liability.
And rather this is the direction than which I would prefer, you know, to look at the number of layers and the number of levels. Liability to me seems the best area where we can identify, you know, minimum standards and see what we can do with that. But, of course, let's see what the social partners say as well. On the child guarantee, how we make it stronger, of course, yes, I agree that it's always about resources, and the 20,000,000,000 call is absolutely correct and, you know, even beyond because the needs on and but, you know, I need to say this. I've worked on the child guarantee in Romania.
Is there's not enough ESF in this world to be enough. There needs to be a comprehensive approach. The European Commission comes with a resource. It's ESF for child guarantee, but we need to have member states investing in, you know, the workforce that supports all the services that we are somehow aiding. So there is a notice the need to have a multidimensional investment effort.
So that's why I always emphasize it's EU money, but it's also the national and regional budget that will help child guarantee be even more. Then we are looking at gaps. For example, safety of children on one side. Let's see. Should it not, you know, vulnerable children are more exposed to safety risk online and offline.
We are looking at this potentially as well. For me, one important topic, I just give examples now: hot meals. How important are they in combating school leave? What can we do better? What can so there are a number of issues where we are looking into how we can make the child guarantee deliver better, be stronger.
I do not remember. Do hear I do not if I forget, maybe you ask me because there will be time you ask me again, because I think I have some notes here that I don't know what they meant. On the platform work references in the response given to you by the commission, obviously, the platform work directive which stands is a very good inspiration, and I think that while I cannot commit now that we will mirror it, but I think that it's important that what is there is, of course, reflected in a way in the rights that are, you know, guaranteed to workers in other workplaces. So we cannot have two sets of rights. It is simply impossible.
So starting from this principle, we will see how we continue because, again, it's the consultation of social partners, and I want to respect it. But out of a principle, I would say, cannot have first class, second class, or different categories of rights. I totally agree with you. Services of general interest, and I've discussed this also with SGI Europe. Somehow, we are trying to approach it in the anti-poverty strategy.
I think it's more a bit related, if you ask me, to the European pillar of social rights and how to better strengthen the delivery of these services. We are preparing, as you know, the action plan, the second action plan. Next year, I think we will have the 10 year anniversary of the SPR. So we're looking at how we can reinforce services of general interest in this whole initiative spectrum of a commission because I do think that they are important, because it's a holistic approach. You cannot fight poverty only with subsidy, only with a hot meal, only with some social services.
You just cannot, it needs to be holistic. It needs to be all the time, and it has also a territorial component. So I am looking with our social partners and what we can do to improve a bit our position as commission and our initiatives on this sector. Then, again, I hear the map so clearly. Today's message was about ESF, and I recognize it.
The needs that you've mentioned to have a strong standalone, well-budgeted ESF that is quite essential. I absolutely recognize it. And as I said, we'll facilitate and provide all information, and see how we can work best to deliver. On Ella, I'm going to that much, but, again, on Ella, we are exploring all avenues on access to GDPR, ability to inspect their country nationals sites or work locations. So it's a number of their ability to initiate inspections.
It's a number of topics that we are looking at with our authority, and I think that the stronger ELA will be key to a stronger one Europe, one market approach, if you ask me. That's why the fair labor mobility package will be part of the one Europe, one market approach, and Ella will have an important role in this. Inward poverty, I just wanted to make this point. We are working on the anti poverty strategy, having a number of dialogues, debates. I've mentioned that we work with, we've discussed with academia, professors, people experiencing poverty, peer workers in poverty, regional, local authorities, all kinds of stakeholders.
Immortal poverty is to me a topic of concern. It's, of course, evolving with what we see around with inflation, with energy prices, and it's the type of intervention that needs, I think, more innovation because normally we address vulnerability below a certain threshold, and people that have employment, you know, sometimes are a bit sensitively above that threshold. We need to look at inward poverty more closely, and it will be part of the work on the anti-poverty strategy. I will assure you of that. And the European care deal that will be presented next year, as I've mentioned, is not stand-alone.
It is connected with other initiatives, with the antipoverty strategy, with our MFF work, so that in the end, we can make a difference in the care sector, whether it's childcare, elderly care, disability care, sector where a lot we need to do much more than that I recognize to all of you.
Li Andersson
Thank you so much. We have reached the end of the meeting, so I really want to thank the Executive Vice President for taking the time, for answering very thoroughly, and thank you to the members for all the very good questions. And we will, of course, also very much appreciate getting the additional information regarding the social spending in the MFF. So thank you also to the members. And the next meetings will be in April.
And coordinators will continue meeting in 15 minutes. Thank you.
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