Committee on Security and Defence Ordinary meeting
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SEDE European Parliament
Follow its sittingsMarie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Now we have a test vote and the vote is open. However, the question will be: who will be the next world champion? Okay, the vote is closed. It's adopted, whatever. So, colleagues, now we are coming to the vote: the hybrid warfare and the protection of the EU territorial integrity and the critical security and defense infrastructure.
So we have the compromise one and it's a block of compromise amendments, compromise one till four. So we start by hand. Who is in favor? Who is against? Abstention?
Adopted. So we come to the final vote. It's a roll call vote and the vote is open. And the vote is closed. And it's adopted with 28 in favor, 8 are against, and that's it.
Thank you very much. This was quick and dirty and we could continue in a few minutes.
So, dear colleagues again, please take your seat. Everybody. Monsieur Général. No it's okay. It was just a test if you, if you hear general then I know that you are immediately alert.
So colleagues, the next item on our agenda is an exchange of views with Mihai Popșoi, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Moldova, to discuss how to respond to growing security and defense challenges. So Minister, it's really a pleasure to welcome you to SEDE.
Moldova is one of the EU's closest partners in the Eastern Neighborhood and continues to face a challenging security environment due to Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine and ongoing hybrid warfare. The recent EU-Moldova summit reaffirmed the EU's commitment to supporting Moldova's security and resilience, in particular through our security and defense partnership, the CSDP partnership mission, and the continued support under the European Peace Facility. The continued fallout of Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine is particularly evident due to the drone incursion in Moldovan airspace. I would therefore like to welcome the recent European Peace Facility assistance measure to help strengthen Moldova's air support. So Minister, I would invite you to share your assessment of the current security situation in Moldova and the main challenges your country continues to face in the current geopolitical context.
Furthermore, we would also like to know how do you assess the EU support provided through the EU's partnership mission and the European Peace Facility. So you have the floor for 10 minutes, and I'm sure there are a lot of questions.
Mihai Popșoi
Thank you, Madam Chair Zimmermann, dear friends. Thank you for this wonderful opportunity to address you today, to discuss about Moldova's progress, resilience, but also to have a frank discussion about the challenges that remain. Sadly, we are in the fifth year of the full-scale Russian invasion against Ukraine and Moldova's security is clearly affected by this horrible war. At the same time, we have to say from the get-go that an independent, sovereign and European Ukraine is a guarantee of Moldova's security and the other way around is also equally true. In the very difficult years since the full-scale Russian invasion, Moldova managed not just to muddle through, but to reach meaningful progress.
And the Monday decision of the Foreign Affairs Council to provide yet another support package for Moldova through the European Peace Facility is a testament to this European solidarity that has truly worked wonders for Moldova's security.
Moldova now has the capabilities to defend itself a lot more than a few years ago. We have made significant progress when it comes to cyber defenses. We've made significant progress when it comes to withstanding and counteracting Russian hybrid operations. And the lessons learned and the resilience gained, we are very eager to share with our friends and partners. We've been proactive in sharing those lessons learned with our friends in Armenia, and we are very happy that they managed to dodge the proverbial bullet.
But it's a work in progress. And speaking of the EPF announcement this Monday, it just so happened that in the early hours of Monday morning, yet another Russian drone with explosives, a modernized version of the Shahed, fell in the south of Moldova close to people's homes. This is yet another wake-up call of the severe security environment that we face. And this has been about almost 50th violation of the Moldovan airspace in the past years. And we see an uptick in those violations since the beginning of this year, an increased number.
But the fact that Moldova now is growing its capabilities is a testament to the will and the resilience of the Moldovan society, but it's also a testament in equal fashion of the incredible support and solidarity of the European community. And we cannot thank you enough because on the parliament level we always have a very strong message when it comes to to Moldova, be it support for security and defense, be it for enlargement. And yesterday was yet another big moment in in Moldova's European history. We opened the sixth cluster. We haven't opened the first five yet, we've opened the first one, the fundamentals, which is incredibly important.
And we've opened the sixth one on external relations, security and defense. And we are looking forward to opening the remaining four in the near future so that we can advance towards our goal to be a full-fledged member in the near future. We are delivering on our end despite difficult circumstances. We are delivering on justice reform, on anti-corruption efforts, on freedom of the press and individual freedoms. If we are looking at the latest ratings of Reporters Without Borders, Moldova's ranking is best compared to any of the country in our region, which speaks of the commitment that we have.
So, despite incredible challenges, Moldova is moving ahead with the support of our partners. In the context of the Russian hybrid interference and attempts to hijack our democratic process and destabilize the country, the EUPM mission has been incredibly important. This has been a mission that has provided incredible support to Moldovan institutions, including institutions that have been created from scratch, like the Center for Strategic Communication, that has allowed Moldova now to gain the capabilities to not be reactive in its response to Russian hybrid operations, but also to be able to monitor and observe almost in real time how certain propaganda is being planted, disseminated, so that we're able to defend our sovereignty and to defend our national interest. We are thankful for the European Union's support when it comes to the EUPM mission, but also to the hybrid response teams that have come to us in the last, in the past year. This has served us well, and we are now beginning to face a situation and a position that is incredibly rewarding.
We are in a position to start to give back.
We want to be more present in European security and defense missions. We are looking to fully align with the European sanctions regime, to have 100% alignment with European Union foreign policy. This is a commitment, not just a technical commitment. This is an indicator of our alignment when it comes to values. And despite the challenges that this process entails, we have this commitment and we are working hard to make sure that we live up to the expectations that we set in front of our citizens, but also in front of our partners.
So we are happy that we are achieving significant progress, but there is still a long way to go. The challenges in the security domain still remain and we are seeing now actually a spiral of escalation in, in the last few months. And of course, we all seek and hope for peace, but for that, of course, the Kremlin needs to be reminded and helped realize that there is no alternative other than peace. I think there is a movement in that direction.
We hope that together we'll be able to achieve that point sooner rather than later, but it's incredibly consequential how the peace will look like. We all have a stake in lasting, just, and sustainable peace, not just a temporary ceasefire that will allow for further, more dangerous escalation down the road. And this is of course up to all of Ukraine's friends and partners to help in this regard. And European Parliament has been the top of the spear when it comes to advocating on behalf of peace through strength, if I could quote our friends from over the Atlantic. Peace through strength is is what the Kremlin understands.
And the sanctions packages that the European Union has put forward are biting. We're seeing clear evidence of that. Whereas on the side of the of the Republic of Moldova, we are working hard to support Ukraine the best way we can. Just these days we are joining the coalition of the willing and we are availing our modest but still relevant resources to be able to be helpful. We are also positioning ourselves to provide all of our infrastructure and all of our capacities for the reconstruction effort when it begins.
Of course, we'd all rather see less destruction before that, but unfortunately the reality is grim at times. But Moldova is eager to be helpful to our Ukrainian friends and to our European friends and partners alike. The capabilities that we gain, the resilience that we acquire, we want to put it to good use. We've been in Kosovo for over a decade, we are participating in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Somalia, earlier Lebanon. We want to make sure that we are contributing so that we are not just, you know, the old cliché of consumers of security, but also providers.
But this is actually what is only fair. You cannot only ask for support, you really have to play your part. And Moldovans are really eager to do that proactively.
We of course hope that in the in the near future we'll we'll see significant progress on our EU accession, which is an important element also and presents a strong pull factor for Moldova's peaceful reintegration with the with the Transnistrian region of Moldova. And the fact that European Union has been so proactive in the most difficult times when the Kremlin turned off the gas the winter before last and the folks in the Transnistrian region were left freezing in the middle of winter, you can understand that no matter the propaganda and no matter the views that you might have been built throughout the years, if your family and your kids are freezing in the middle of winter, you might start to question this notion that the the Kremlin wishes you well as the propaganda would have you believe. When you're freezing in the middle of winter, I think all of those notions are dissipated quite fast. But it was the European Union that stepped up and the the government in Chișinău facilitated that quick response from the EU, which we're incredibly thankful for. We're working hard to keep stability in the Republic of Moldova, to double down on the reform agenda.
And yes, there might be a bit of a of a trend with reshuffles of the government. It started with Romania, then Moldova, then Ukraine. I think there was some reshuffle in the in the Baltics as well. But Moldova is very much stable. We have an absolute majority in parliament.
We'll have a full-fledged government early next week. Things will continue to go on course so that we make sure that we continue to deliver for our citizens and we continue to deliver for our partners because that's the promise that we made to our citizens and to our partners alike. And we cannot thank you enough for standing by Moldova in these very difficult times. And I can only reassure you that Moldova is very eager to give back the best way we can. Moldova is there as a trusted and reliable partner.
And once we have a full-fledged government in place, there will be still some time to iron down the program and the new cabinet, but next week things should be sorted down. Thank you for all your support and I'm really eager to answer any questions that you may have.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Thank you very much, Minister. I will give the floor to the members for a first round of questions starting with the coordinators in a ping-pong format so you could answer immediately. And I will give two minutes for questions and two minutes for replies. So we start with Christophe Gomart, if you want, or Michael Gahler. Okay, Michael.
Michael Gahler
Thank you very much and welcome again, Minister. Good to see you here. And thanks for what, all what Moldova stands for and what you have achieved.
And also thanks to your citizens who have in many times now shown their resolve and their, well, their courage to resist Russian temptations, be it by bribes or other means or intimidations. So they have clearly chosen several times the European course and I think that should be and must be rewarded. We will do that. One question that remains important, I think, is everything that is centered around Transnistria and the situation there. I mean, we see that economically they are de facto more trading now with EU side.
And so, and also apparently your dependence on this electricity plant there in Tiraspol, that is now also in a different situation now. So it's not that you have to deliver something, you get something back. Can you update us on this situation? And then for me the question remains, I mean, there is this, well, oligarchic structure, is it Sheriff or the family there or these guys? Are they in a position simply to switch sides at some point?
And I wonder how these, is it 1200 or 1100 Russian troops, how are they supplied currently? What is their contact? How can they survive? Is there a some kind of subsistent economy where they feed themselves? What is the real situation?
And is it really the Russians that Putin would think that he has a bet on them, or can we assume that at some point they will clandestinely disappear and leave it to you? What is the state of affairs? What are your plannings or what do you expect to happen there? Thank you.
Minister.
Mihai Popșoi
Thank you. Indeed, this statistics might be surprising, but they are factual nonetheless. The Transnistrian region of the Republic of Moldova exports 80% to the European Union, the rest of the Republic of Moldova almost 70%. So the Transnistrian region of Moldova is even more anchored onto the European market than the rest of the country, which is an incredibly good thing. At the same time, the illegal Russian military presence, the contingent there, which on paper is about 12-1500 soldiers that haven't rotated since 2014, since the annexation of Crimea.
And in fact, actual Russian soldiers left are between 2 and 300.
The rest, they are recruiting locally, including from Moldovan citizens residing in the Transnistrian region, which is not great. And it's only last year that we took measures to change the incentive structure of those citizens, those individuals who before that could earn a wage by making a disservice to the country, diplomatically speaking, without having no downside. Now we've taken some measures, including the withdrawal of citizenship for those who get Russian citizenship or have Russian citizenship and serve in the illegal Russian military presence there. And we are seeing already the shift, the deterrence of this measure paying off. There is less of a propensity or will or desire on behalf of residents to do that.
So the actual presence, Russian presence there is truly negligible. 2, 300 Russian soldiers don't really make a big difference. We are working through peaceful means to make sure that we open wide the door for the exit. But if you were a Russian soldier these days in the Transnistrian region of Moldova, I would bet you'd not be particularly keen to go home, given the circumstances. But we nonetheless create the circumstances to encourage them to do that.
And the same on the economic side. We are doing our best to provide support to our citizens in the Transnistrian region because unlike the Kremlin, we care for our citizens, no matter the language they speak, no matter the place they live, no matter the political views they hold. We have just created this convergence fund where the money that we are taking from the taxes from the residents and now companies from the Transnistrian region, we are giving back. In fact, we'll be adding more to that convergence fund with our funding, with the donor support, to be able to provide a lifeline of support to our citizens from the Transnistrian region of Moldova. So the effort is there to engage in good faith, to reintegrate peacefully, to bring the region into our constitutional space, because economically it is to a large degree part of the country.
From an economic standpoint, from a sports standpoint, I think yesterday was a big event. The Spaniards are very happy, but when Real Madrid lost in Madrid to Sheriff Tiraspol, I think they were not particularly happy.
But this is a testament to the fact that from a sports perspective, we are one country, economically as well. So we are working to make sure that we bring them closer and closer, and Moldova's EU accession presents a very strong pull factor. And we are thankful for our friends who have understood the importance of keeping these two tracks separate: the reintegration of the country and European integration of the country, because otherwise we'll be playing into the hands of the Kremlin and providing them extra leverage.
Sven Mikser
Yes, thank you, Minister. Good to see you again, Ambassador. Great to see you as well. First, congratulations on the progress on the European path. I know that you've been pushing very hard and working very hard to see the opening of the political negotiations, opening of the clusters.
We have been pushing in the same direction, and we had a vote on the annual AFET Committee report in the plenary last week. And I think that both the vote and the debate preceding the vote demonstrated the almost unanimous support in this house for the very legitimate European aspirations of the Moldovan people, as well as the acknowledgment of the significant progress with regard to reform.
Since this is Defense and Security Committee, I would like to ask you about the air defense. Obviously, as you said, you very much appreciate the support that the European Union is providing through the Peace Facility and obviously it's been significant. But given where you started from, building up air defense, air surveillance capability is a very expensive thing. So I believe this is perhaps more a question to your colleague, the Defense Minister, but still, where does this latest allocation take you with regard to being able to have fully adequate air surveillance picture, but also with regard to actually defending the airspace? And what are the gaps still remaining in that regard?
And secondly, we all followed the very massive hybrid operation against Moldova during the elections. How is the situation now? During the what you described as reshuffling of the government and change of the Prime Minister, or during the news about the opening of the clusters, are you seeing any increased hybrid activity from the Russian side and what form has it taken since the elections?
Mihai Popșoi
The operations are constant, they change in intensity, but they try to exploit any opportunity we get them, we give them. And there've been lately a few opportunities that we did provide them to exploit. But we are making sure that we are defending our informational space, defending our sovereignty and not allowing them the luxury of exploiting any cleavages or any challenges that we might face internally. Now that we have the means, the infrastructure to navigate the online domain and see how those narratives are being planted or how they are feeding the fire, we are able to respond in much more robust fashion. But it's going to be a constant battle, this is never going to be a sort of a finish line.
The operations are constant.
You just need to be more resilient. That's why it's so important to have international mechanisms like the one we started to address under the Council of Europe umbrella, to have a convention on FIMI so that we have at least a lowest common denominator against all the member states, a legally binding document that we can use all of us based on the experience of each country, because experiences are different.
And in some countries it's easier to say, you know, this is part and parcel of the public debate, this is not anything extraordinary. But I don't think there is any country that hasn't experienced absolute clear targeted disinformation from abroad. And that of course needs to be addressed. When it comes to the support for the air defense system, we already have part of the system in place with the radars. We just need now to have the interceptors.
Yes, it's expensive, but we have committed ourselves to spend more on defense. Maybe not quite 5%, even 3.5% is a lot for us. We have to be honest that we have chronically underinvested in defense, dangerously underinvested in defense. Now we've realized the severe vulnerability that we have. It will take us time to mitigate the gap, but thanks to the incredible support of our partners in the European Union, in the United States and other partners that have allowed us to plug some of these gaps.
The EPF is truly transformational when it comes to these biggest ticket items, including air defense.
So it's a work in progress. We understand that equipment is expensive and it'll take us some time to acquire it. There are no readily available sitting on the shelves air defense systems, but it's good for us to sort of get ourselves in line and when the time comes for us to be able to have the assurances to our citizens that we can control and defend our airspace, which is, you know, the basic element for a sovereign country. So it's a work in progress, but there is significant progress being made. Thank you.
And I should have started with that, with the incredible show of solidarity with the resolution on Moldova, quasi-unanimous in Parliament. And this shows that Moldova has friends across the board and from all parts of the political spectrum, because Moldova is delivering, Moldova is working hard to live up to the expectations that we set, and we cannot thank you enough for this support.
Thank you very much. The next will be for the ECR, Cristian.
Speaker 8
Thank you so much. The first question is about Transnistria. It was touch-based on before, but there's one more thing.
Putin changed the Russian law to make it easier to give Russian citizenship to people outside of the Russian territory. How is this affecting the situation in Transnistria, especially since your government is withdrawing the Moldovan citizenship to some people that are, you know, enrolled in the Russian army? Is this a, is this something serious? Do we really need to be concerned about it or not? And at the end of the day, how do you see exactly this integration of Transnistria back into the constitutional system and sovereignty of Moldova?
This would be the first question. Second, at one point in time, there's going to be a deal about Ukraine. Do you think part of that deal should be the situation of Transnistria as well? In other words, when EU, US, and other countries, you know, will be negotiating on a resolution on this conflict in Ukraine, should also be a topic about withdrawing the Russian troops from Transnistria or not? Or how do you, how do you see this?
Because if this is an option, I think we need to prepare that from now and start looking into it.
The third question, you mentioned about hybrid threats. We just voted like few minutes ago on a report and I think Moldova was the first country that was exposed to this new kind of hybrid threats that were not seen before in Europe. What lesson can EU learn from your experience with this kind of threats? And looking ahead five years from now, what do you think will be the biggest challenges that Moldova you think will face in the upcoming five years and what we can do to help you guys? And last but not least, there's this huge scandal now, or was few days ago, with what the ambassador of Germany said during an interview.
I'm wondering what is your take on his statement. Thank you.
Mihai Popșoi
Well, I'll do my best to be quick on all of them. With the German ambassador, I mean, these things happen. It's unfortunate reply to a journalist. I think the ambassador realizes sensitivity of the issue and he's relatively new.
I think he's going to learn how sensitive the issue is when it comes to identity, when it comes to history. And I think given the discussion was about the shared common identity between residents of Moldova and Romania, we have a shared history, we have a shared language, and there were some statements that cast doubt over that spirit of unity. I think the ambassador didn't necessarily mean that. He explained that he misspoke or there was misinterpretation. But I think the sensitivity of the issue is clear now to all the diplomatic corps in Chișinău.
When it comes to the biggest challenges in the next five years, well, we hope that we'll have less challenges in five years. We really hope and we work hard to make sure that that happens. I would see Moldova being a member of the European Union in five years. We've worked very hard to deliver. We are now opening clusters.
We will soon be ready to close chapters in clusters. And we are counting on the merit-based approach and on the reciprocity of our partners because we will deliver and we are delivering.
And again, I hope that we'll have less challenges and we'll certainly have peace in our region in this window of time, hopefully a lot earlier than that. Lessons learned with hybrid, that you have to be proactive. You cannot afford to beat around the bush and not to be blatant about the severity of the threat. But you also need to be clear-minded and cautious when it comes to that fine line between defending and protecting national security and adhering to democratic standards and protecting the democratic rights of your citizens. This is has been crucial in our response to hybrid interference.
We've securitized our informational space, we've consolidated our defenses to hybrid interference, but we've also been adamant about making sure that we defend and protect the democratic freedoms of our citizens. Hence having and enjoying the highest rankings of freedom of the press in the region. We still have a long way to go to compare ourselves to our friends in the Nordics and other places that do exceptionally well when it comes to democratic standards in general.
That's the reference point that we try to make. But this has been very important to make sure that you don't cross the red line under the temptation or disguise of protecting or ensuring national security, not to cross the red line when it comes to ensuring democratic freedoms. When it comes to the deal, the peace deal between Russia and Ukraine, the peace deal, as you can already see, it's very difficult to achieve. Complicating this future peace agreement with issues that not necessarily directly are connected to the war would probably make a disservice to the effort. So our this was our initial approach in the first year of the war, that provided there is a peace agreement soon, then we should also sort of add our own issue and have this comprehensive solution.
As things got worse and worse and more complicated, our vision now is, and it is shared by our partners, that once there is a peace agreement and there is peace in Ukraine, the next step would be the broader discussion about the regional security architecture and then a longer-term discussion about sanctions relief to the Kremlin.
And this will be the time where our partners would be able to leverage that moment to address lingering issues like the Transnistrian issue and others. So that is the modus operandi that we see now. So this of course means that the reintegration of Transnistrian region of Moldova will take some time because these are type of things that we cannot rush because we need to do it right. We need to do it in sustainable, lasting fashion. But we also need to be cognizant that the Transnistrian region is part of the Republic of Moldova.
Economically, I mean, the borders we control, we have close contacts almost on daily basis. We have avoided any real escalation in the past four and a half years, even though there were attempts to cause trouble there, but red lines have not been crossed. And this is a testament that, you know, things are stable and we'll keep it that way. Thank you.
Speaker 10
Thank you, Chair. Minister, welcome to our committee. Always a pleasure to have you and exchange views on many, many issues. Indeed, an important milestone from yesterday, opening the second, I mean, two clusters.
More important is to sustain progress. So, I'm looking forward for any of your comments about the reshaping of the Moldovan government, which is to change in coming weeks, probably. So, how do you see the continuation and same policy line, I mean, which was conducted by previous government? I hope it will be continuation and kind of guarantee for pro-European course in this regard. Indeed, I have two questions.
With the this extra support from European Peace Facility, indeed air defense capabilities of Moldova will be strengthened. I'm looking forward for any of your comments on cooperation with Ukraine, Ukraine's military forces in this regard, I mean, any good news because Ukraine has most advanced for today air defense systems, what comes especially to drones and any flying objects in in this regard. And secondly, since Moscow Orthodox Church was much involved in anti-government, anti-state activities, especially before election and so on, any good news in this regard?
I mean, how you cope with the situation? And very personal question to you, would you be in favor of indeed sanctioning Patriarch Kirill? Thank you.
Mihai Popșoi
Anyone who has contributed to the Russian war effort needs to bear the consequences of the international community, regardless of who they are or what they do. There needs to be a united effort on behalf of the international community to promote peace, and peace only happens if we are united in undercutting the war effort.
And anyone who is supporting and proactively backing that war effort needs to bear the consequences. When it comes to Moldova's church under the Russian patriarchy and under the Romanian patriarchy, this is yet another sensitive discussion along similar to the ones that we mentioned earlier. You know, matters of church and state are separate for a reason. But it is important for Moldovan churchgoers and Moldovan parishes to decide what is best for them, what parishes and what metropoly best aligns with their values and what they see best for the future of their country. And I think it's becoming clear, if it hasn't been clear in the last two years, what is in Moldova's national interest and who are our friends and who are not.
When it comes to military cooperation, we are a neutral country. In the 1994 constitution, the founding fathers of Moldova's independence, maybe this is not a very diplomatic word, but they were a little bit naive in the hope that if we write in our constitution that we'll be neutral, then we will shame away the Russian Federation to withdraw their troops and munitions in Moldova.
Needless to say that hasn't happened. The intention was good, of course, but we are realizing that neutrality is not a guarantee of security. If we are good stewards of history and we open any history book that tells you that aggressors have never stopped at the borders of neutral countries just because it says on the border post that this is a neutral country.
Ukraine was neutral in 2014.
Mihai Popșoi
Yes, de facto that was the case. But we also need to be aware of the democratic position or the general position of the Moldovan society. For many reasons, Soviet legacy, the propaganda since independence, that the majority of Moldovan public still sees value in neutrality. So military cooperation is a sensitive topic, but is becoming less of a taboo because we understand that neutrality doesn't mean defenseless. Neutrality doesn't mean availing yourself and not being able to stand up to aggression.
And we are now proactively seeking partnerships to place Moldova into the broader European logistics lines when it comes to military industry.
It's important for us from a security standpoint, but let's be honest, it's also very important from an economic standpoint. So we are proactively now seeking partnerships to have Moldova be part of European military logistics lines and production. And it's safe to say we're not going to be building F-16s or Gripens or anything of that nature anytime soon, but any component that would put Moldova on the map of these European military logistics lines is important. And that's perfectly in line with our neutrality status. And we are working in that regard.
And of course, we are seeking partnerships with all of our allies and friends. And that will be the way forward. And of course, we are eager to participate in SAFE program, EDIP program, and any other programs that are helping Moldova achieve its goal to defend itself better and to be able to serve and help its friends and partners.
Thank you very much, Christophe Gomart. The floor is yours.
Speaker 11
Excuse me, Chair. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Minister. Thank you for visiting us.
Russia's war against Ukraine has accelerated the accession process for several candidate countries. How can we convince European citizens that the accession criteria remain exactly the same today as they were before 2022 and that geopolitical considerations have not taken precedence over the Copenhagen criteria? Thank you.
Mihai Popșoi
Just a brief comment to our good friend MEP Ostravičius. I can assure you and all of you here that there is a 100% continuity when it comes to the incoming government because at the end of the day it rests on the very same majority in parliament that is 100% pro-European, 110% pro-European, fully committed to carrying on our reform agenda, be it justice reform, anti-corruption, rule of law, that is foundational to our commitment and to our European aspirations. So there is absolutely no concern when it comes to the new government not sharing the commitments. They will be shared 100%. When it comes to the accession methodology, there is a big debate now of how to do it.
There are many proposals that are coming up from many countries.
We support all of that, but at the same time our expectation is that the goalpost doesn't move. You can change the process if it means improving it, but as long as we agree on the clear benchmarks and what needs to be done to achieve that destination, we are very much eager to do that. We understand that the Copenhagen criteria are there for a reason, and we are interested, we are the most interested party to make sure that we live up to those standards so that not only are we an effective, competitive, and reliable member of the community, but also that we have the guardrails and the infrastructure back home that the reforms that we are doing now—I mean, we are not going to be in power forever. That's certainly not the objective. We want to make sure that whoever is in power in Moldova, the democratic standards are non-negotiable and the institutions are strong and resilient enough that nobody can question Moldova's commitment to democracy, rule of law, and everything that the Copenhagen criteria entails.
So that is the commitment that we made to our citizens and that's why that we enjoy significant support from our citizens. But this also helps us to advance towards the goal of of European membership. So we very much support the tough expectations that the European Union sets because they are helping a country like Moldova. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Maria.
Maria Grapini
Mulțumesc. O să vorbesc în limba comună pe care o avem apropo de întrebarea legată de declarația ambasadorului. Vă pun prima întrebare. În primul rând, vă felicit pentru ceea ce faceți și pe toți cei care au muncit pentru că aici nu numai guvernul sau nu foarte mulți s-au angajat în în toate etapele pe care noi le urmărim ca și delegație. Sunt vicepreședinta delegației pentru Republica Moldova.
Domnule ministru, considerați că ați făcut ce trebuia diplomatic vorbind pentru a clarifica în spațiul public declarația ambasadorului din Germania? Pentru că eu primesc foarte multe întrebări și ieri am primit chiar agasante așa, de ce a declarat ambasadorul acest lucru. Diplomatic dumneavoastră credeți că ați explicat suficient?
Pentru că e foarte bine să nu le lăsăm încâlcite. Poate o să considerați că vă pun întrebări sensibile, dar eu iubesc Republica Moldova, sunt moldoveancă, am lucrat în business cu Republica Moldova și vreau cât mai repede să avem Republica Moldova aici. Însă mie nu mi se pare că s-a clarificat prin întrebările puse de colegii mei problema Transnistriei. Pentru că spuneați că doar circa 200 de soldați sunt din Rusia, restul sunt cetățeni din Transnistria. Vor sau nu vor acești cetățeni în Uniunea Europeană?
Pentru că până la urmă beneficiază de îi ajutați dumneavoastră, noi. Cum îi convingem să înțeleagă? Pentru că aderarea Republicii Moldova eu n-o văd fără Transnistria. O altă întrebare sensibilă, dumneavoastră ați spus chiar că conflictul și știm și noi, conflictul cu Ucraina persistă, continuă, nu vedem o pace așa foarte rapidă. Considerați că Ucraina poate să meargă în ritmul în care Republica Moldova merge la închidere, la deschiderea clusterelor și la închiderea problemelor și a jaloanelor pe care le avem, spunea și colegul, legat de de integrare în Uniunea Europeană?
Sau dacă mergem împreună Ucraina cu Republica Moldova se va îndepărta momentul în care Republica Moldova va fi, realist vorbind, pentru că știm ce e acolo în Ucraina și este foarte greu să țină acest ritm. Sper să primesc răspunsuri foarte clare. Eu sprijin cu tot sufletul și Parlamentul vedeți că vă sprijină, nu cred că este vreo problemă. Vă mulțumesc.
Mihai Popșoi
Întrebarea legată de ambasador am comentat-o, dumnealui a comentat și în spațiul public, a dat clarificările necesare. Noi am discutat pe canale diplomatice și am explicat sensibilitatea subiectului și sperăm că această discuție în spațiul public îi va ajuta pe toți ceilalți care vor urma să se asigure că sensibilitatea subiectului necesită o abordare serioasă, aprofundată, altfel riscăm să ajungem în circumstanțe în care s-a ajuns. Vizavi de dosarul transnistrean, regiunea transnistreană a Republicii Moldova, acolo sunt cetățeni ai Republicii Moldova. Faptul că au și ei acolo hârtiile lor locale ne privește mai puțin.
Sunt cetățeni ai Republicii Moldova. Și atunci trebuie să avem o abordare conștiincioasă, să-i ajutăm și să vă răspund franc la întrebarea dumneavoastră dacă își doresc ei să fie parte a Uniunii Europene. Dumneavoastră ca agent economic, dacă ați fi agent economic din regiunea transnistreană și ați vinde produsele dumneavoastră exclusiv în spațiul european, așa cum se întâmplă cu 80% din producătorii de acolo, evident că înțelegeți unde este viitorul, unde sunt perspectivele și mai cu seamă dacă ne aducem aminte de realitățile din business-ul rusesc și epidemia recentă, da, de oameni care cad de la balcoane, de la ferestre deschise. Agenții economici sunt oameni pragmatici, de altfel ca și toți cetățenii, și știu foarte bine ce e bine pentru familiile lor și pentru afacerile lor. Și integrarea europeană este garanția păcii și securității și prosperității tuturor cetățenilor Republicii Moldova, indiferent unde locuiesc, pe malul drept sau pe malul stâng a Nistrului.
Cât privește Ucraina, prietenii noștri de la Kiev depun efort maxim pentru a reuși și ei în acest proces complicat, riguros, de aderare la Uniunea Europeană. Noi, la rândul nostru, depunem și noi efort maxim și, așa cum spuneam, mizăm pe un proces bazat pe merit. Cel care face mai mult, avansează mai mult. E o abordare corectă, firească. Noi ne dorim firește și Ucraina să progreseze într-un ritm accelerat pentru că, așa cum spuneam la început, Ucraina independentă, suverană și europeană este garanția securității Republicii Moldova.
Dar în același timp procesul de aderare la Uniunea Europeană este unul bazat pe merite și noi pornim de la această premisă în acțiunile noastre. Vă mulțumesc.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
So, thank you very much, Minister, for your time. Any question? No, thank you very much, it was really very interesting and you are always warmly welcome coming to SEDE, telling us what's going on. And so, thank you very much to be here. And colleagues, we will continue in a few minutes.
Before we start, I would like to remind you that this item takes place in camera, so please all electronic devices must be left outside the meeting room.
Maybe you can manage it now and then we could continue on time. Thank you very much.
Mihai Popșoi
Thank you Madam Chair for this wonderful opportunity and thank all of you and you are very much welcome back to the Republic of Moldova for those who have visited and those who haven't, please do. Thank you.
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