Hearings to examine proposed budget estimates and justification for fiscal year 2027 for the Department of Energy.
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John Kennedy
And then, as we're talking about offshore, we must meet our our obligations to our US territory, something that we don't talk often enough. Again, as we discussed last week, I I really appreciate the efforts that you have made, mister secretary, so far. But when it comes to the probate backlog, I think you and I agree we have much more that needs to be done. This probate backlog that impacts Indian country is just not acceptable. We need you to focus on getting culturally competent permanent staff in place, because even if all the vacant positions were suddenly filled, it's still going to take eight years just to resolve the existing cases, not including their adjudication.
And you're gonna hear in my questions this morning a real focus on the staffing, because it's not just within the probate accounts. You need appropriate staffing across the board so the department can do the work on time and in a legally defensible manner. And and I think this is one of the areas within the Department of Interior. People look at this this massive massive department and it's it's it's all about administering our lands, whether it's BLM, whether it's Park Service. And and they think about it from the land perspective, but we can't manage it.
We can't manage these unless we have the people there. It just takes a lot of good people doing good things to turn it into sustained success. And and you've got a lean team and they are darn good and I appreciate them. But we keep hearing this, not just from Alaska, but other western delegations that there's a concern that if we're gonna execute on the president's executive orders, we need the men and women to do just that. So got a lot to discuss on this busy day.
So again, I thank you for being here. Thank you for your leadership. And I look forward to working with you and your team as as we on the committee here work to craft another good bill with my counterpart, senator Merkley. Now turn to you, sir.
Jon Husted
Well, thank you very much, chair Murkowski, and it has been a pleasure working together. And I hope that the the bill we were able to do for FY '26 gives us a strong start for fiscal year twenty seven. And welcome, secretary Bergam. The Interior Department carries quite a set of responsibilities entrusted with stewarding our nation's public lands, honoring our commitments to tribal nations, and safeguarding our natural resources for this generation and those generations to come. But I'm quite concerned that the actions of your department are undermining those missions rather than advancing those admissions.
Let's just start with the rule of law. The committee has requirements for reorganizations and reprogrammings. In our most recent bill passed in January, we added a requirement to provide advanced notification. Notification is not optional, and yet we only learned about the merger of the offshore wind regulatory and permitting agencies through the news. No advanced notification of any kind.
That's not a policy disagreement. This is just an issue of the rule of law and your decision to ignore it, which is unacceptable to this member of the committee. We also require congressional approval for reorganizations and reprogramming, and decades of Republican and Democratic administrations have honored that arrangement with the legislative branch under our constitution and the separation of powers. But your department's refusal to cooperate with the committee's oversight role is really quite a divergence from that and quite unacceptable. We recently learned that the Department of Justice is paying Total Energy's $1,000,000,000 to cancel projects that would have produced cheaper and cleaner power.
Speaker 4
And in return, you're asking that company to export more natural gas and to invest in a series of other fossil projects. But deliberately warping the economy to advance dirtier, more expensive energy over cleaner, less expensive energy does not serve the American people nor certainly not America's leadership in the world. Using taxpayer dollars to pay for profit companies to not produce clean energy and to ask them to export more natural gas which increases the price of natural gas here in The United States. It's raising the price for American households totally incompatible with the mission of of lowering prices for Americans. And that's happening at a time when people across this country are already seeing their utility rates raise and are feeling pressed to the wall in other dimensions on housing and health care, so driving up the cost of gas for households certainly is counterproductive to the welfare and the economic success of our families.
Jon Husted
We are told that the administration is focused on rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. But where is that scrutiny when it's needed to make sure that the investments promote less expensive energy rather than more expensive energy? It is completely absent. The interior department has made a policy to hold renewable energy to a different standard, a more difficult standard, than polluting oil and gas. That does not serve America well.
Mothballing projects until developers lose interest or they run out of money is really a attack on a significant part of our economy. And the president has said he hates wind turbines. And your department has been falling all over itself to carry out that fixation against wind turbines even if it means higher rates for Americans and losing global competitiveness. This is not in America's interest. And you propose in your budget to eliminate all funding for renewable energy permitting and research.
In other words, put America last in advancing the energy of the future. And I'm very concerned about this budget's assault on our tribal communities. Proposes cutting programs for tribal communities by a third. A billion and a half taken out of tribal governments and tribal schools, road repair, agriculture, firefighting, job training. For school construction alone, tribal school construction, an 85% cut.
That is simply not acceptable. Many of the schools in Indian country are in far worse shape than our public schools elsewhere, and certainly we have a responsibility to assist with the upgrades. What I think adds to the fact that I'm so troubled by this is you had the same proposal last year. So over the last year, tribal communities have weighed in heavily. Congress weighed in heavily.
So we supported our tribal communities and yet you bring back the same exact proposal again. Death really to the responsibilities and concerns expressed over an entire year. Bringing it back again, that's just a choice to rub salt into the wound, not a good move. And this pattern of reckless cuts, it extends across departments. Take the Fish and Wildlife Service, proposes a significant cut to the National Wildlife Refuge System, a system that places well, tens of millions of Americans rely on those places for outdoor recreation including hunting and fishing and wildlife viewing and eliminating funding for multinational species conservation.
Programs where we partner with other countries to combat wildlife trafficking, to protect iconic species, to disrupt the terrorist and the criminal networks that profit from it. So cutting back on those programs seeds leadership abroad. At the very moment when really our interest would be advanced by cooperation and leadership. Turning to the National Park Service, we again see a budget that repeats wildly unpopular and counterproductive proposals, proposing to eliminate another 2,500 positions on top of the 2,500 folks who were in the the lingo of the day voluntold to leave their jobs. It's not a minor adjustment.
It's a fundamental hollowing out of the workforce that protects and manages our most treasured places. Our national parks are not theme parks. They certainly shouldn't be sold off. And so this budget really, is an insult to Americans where we have seen how important those national park staff are to protect our natural and cultural resources, to maintain infrastructure, to manage wildfire, water systems, conduct scientific research, plan for the long term in an ever changing environment. We need the trail guides, we need the biologists, we need the maintenance crews.
But this budget says it's time to unravel the national park system by cutting hundreds of park treasures out of the system entirely. We saw a debate here in the senate over this last year where a couple senators proposed selling off some of our public lands and I can tell you how that goes over in rural Oregon. We treasure our places to hike, to camp, to hunt, to fish, to collect mushrooms and just to be in the wilderness to restore our souls. And yet, you want to see those sold off so that the billionaires of the world can put up a fence and say, not here. Billionaire now owns.
Jeff Bezos now owns. Someone else now owns our national treasures. We're not gonna let that happen. As Wallace Stegner once said, our national parks are the best idea we ever had, absolutely American and absolutely democratic. And as we approach the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this nation, we should be strengthening that legacy, establishing that foundation for the next two hundred and fifty years, not undermining it, not damaging it.
And yet, when we look at this budget, we see a very different set of priorities from this administration. We see slush funds, we see vanity projects, and we see the weaponization of long standing bipartisan programs. The budget proposes $10,000,000,000 for a presidential capital stewardship program focused on ego driven vanity projects here in Washington, D. C. Deferred maintenance in the D.
C. Area has been estimated at $2,700,000,000 Well, that's a lot less than $10,000,000,000 Where is the additional $7,300,000,000 going? And, you know, it's already another 310,000,000 in carryover from the Legacy Restoration Fund that the Park Service tells us is dedicated for Washington DC. So give us a very detailed analysis of what's you have in mind rather than setting up this slush fund to be spent on vanity projects for a president as opposed to for the people. At the same time, this budget request $9,500,000,000 per year for five years to address deferred maintenance and infrastructure needs across the entire country.
So here we have a slush fund of 10,000,000,000 for Vantage projects for this president, which exceeds the 9,500,000,000 per year for the five years to address deferred maintenance and infrastructure across the entire country and national parks, wildlife refugees, and tribal schools. So bring us a detailed vision of how every penny is to be spent, and then we can have a real discussion about that $10,000,000,000. We've watched the president tear down the People's House. We've watched the president rename a memorial for president Kennedy after himself. It's not a pretty sight, and you shouldn't be part of it, the interior department should not be part of it.
Vanity projects to promote the current president are better suited to a regime than to a republic. And another problem in this administration is its compulsion to bring partisanship into nonpartisan actions. The project list for the Land and Water Conservation Fund put forward last year and this year are almost entirely in red states. You have politicized projects that have never been politicized before. This committee has worked for years on a bipartisan basis to invest in land water conservation fund projects across the country, red states and blue states alike, regardless of whether or which party is representing them in the senate or in the house of representatives.
It's odd to even describe these projects in partisan terms. The administration is also requesting the extension of legacy restoration fund to support deferred maintenance on federal lands and in tribal schools. I strongly support that. But are you going to bring your partisanship into that as well where no partisanship should ever exist? I hope you'll be able to affirm to us that you're going to end this corruption of bipartisan funding for projects.
Last week, the president announced plans unilaterally construct what he calls a triumphal arch on federal parkland here in Washington DC. Where was the consultation? Where was the public process? Where are the approvals required under law? Why is the taxpayer paying for these funds diverted from a program that funds rural museums and libraries?
Doesn't seem appropriate to me. I don't think it seems appropriate to most of America. Budgets are statements of values, and this budget proclaims that the values of this administration are that public lands are to be exploited rather than stewarded, that energy should be dirty and expensive rather than clean and cheaper, and that slush funds with no accountability are appropriate in our nation, and that congressional oversight is a problem within a core part of the separation of powers under our constitution. I hope with this two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, we will celebrate our constitution, the separation of powers, and public accountability because that's what the American people deserve.
John Kennedy
Mister secretary, we will now turn to you for for your opening comments. We do have your written testimony, but we're pleased that you are before the committee here this morning. Welcome.
Speaker 3
Thank you, chairman and ranking member. Distinguished members of the subcommittee as well as the chairman of the ranking member, thank you for this opportunity to be with you this morning to testify in support of the president's fiscal twenty twenty seven budget request for the Department of the Interior and discuss what our team is doing to make America safer, stronger, more beautiful, and more prosperous. As you all know, on this committee, the department touches the lives of millions of Americans. We manage Americans' vast energy supply and natural resources. We honor federal trust responsibilities and our unique with 575 tribal nations.
We deliver water to the West. We fight fires. We enforce the law, and we steward our treasured wildlife refuges and national parks. Our efforts extend across the country to ensure border security. The Department of Interior manages 41% of the Southwestern border and also the safety in Indian country.
This broad portfolio is part of America's balance sheet. Tens of trillions of dollars worth of assets that belong to the American people and should be responsibly managed, conserved, and put to use for their benefit according to the law. While prior administrations have handcuffed prosperity and locked Americans out of their land and water, the Trump administration is doing the opposite, responsibly unlocking access and unlocking prosperity through recreation and sustainable use, including by our nation's hunters and anglers. This budget reflects president Trump's priorities to pursue energy dominance, deliver services more efficiently, uphold law and order, and make our federal lands safe and accessible for all Americans. All of which would make life more affordable for our families across the country.
Speaker 9
Under this administration, Interior is committed to increasing energy development on our public lands and waters, reestablishing our position as dominant in critical minerals and protecting our economic and national security. Energy dominance means selling energy to our friends and allies so they don't have to buy it from those waging war against our allies or those that are waging terrorism against us. We have eliminated burdensome ideological counterproductive regulations that undermined efficient land management and economic development while maintaining appropriate protections on our wildlife and our environment. Ongoing regulatory reform to cut red tape will continue to secure our supply chains, unlock American energy, deliver better outcomes for the American people and tribal nations and secure sustainable financial returns for the American people on federally owned land and mineral assets. As noted by the chairman last month, the department held the lawfully required record lease sale in the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska, generating record revenue and creating opportunities for those native Alaskans that live on the North Slope.
Speaker 3
And following Congress direction in the Working Families Tax Cut Act, we are scheduling and holding energy lease sales according to the law to increase supply and lower costs for Americans. The department estimates that revenues in 2027 will exceed nearly 20,000,000,000. That's revenues coming in from the managing of our resources more than offsetting the operational costs of the entire department. The department is also reducing costs by making our operations more efficient and more effective. The budget concludes three proposals to improve efficiency including further strategic unification of the wildland fire programs into the department's new US Wildland Fire Service.
Consolidation of the Endangered Species Act and Marine Manual Protection Act, which are separately managed under NOAA, but unifying those with the parallel and often redundant work within US Fish and Wildlife. And the reunification of the departments to existing offshore mineral management bureaus into a single entity, the Marine Minerals Administration. Streamlining government to offshore energy and mineral resources will deliver greater value to the American public, ensure the safe expeditious and orderly development of our resources and critical minerals. These unification efforts will streamline bureaucracy and make our work to fight fires, manage our forest, protect wildlife and the environment and manage offshore resources. It'll make them all better, faster, smarter, and more effective.
The budget also advances key administrative priorities, including upholding trust responsibilities and empowering Indian country, conserving America's wildlife and natural resources, and making public lands accessible to all Americans for hunting, fishing and recreation and other uses. We are expanding efforts to cooperate with tribes and federal agencies to fulfill federal trust responsibilities by committing to open door engagement, transparency and sustained communication with all five seventy five federally recognized tribes. In 2027, the department will continue its commitment to advancing tribal sovereignty, promoting economic opportunities, reducing the probate backlog and combating violent crime and the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous peoples. Millions of Americans visit interior managed lands each year, fueling a boom in outdoor recreation economy and supporting jobs and small businesses nationwide. The 2027 budget focuses on the continued beautification of interiors assets.
One big ask that I would have for this committee is the reauthorization of the greater American outdoors act legacy restoration fund passed by Congress and signed by president Trump in his first term. Reauthorization for a number for additional five years would again help us to protect these important resources. Through this fund, the department invests in maintaining roads, bridges, water system, visitor centers and other assets so visitors can continue to enjoy our national parks and public lands for years to come. As we celebrate America's two fifty, the budget focuses on visitor facing operation at parks, wildlife refuges, and across public lands. This will help improve the visitor experience, drive tourism, create jobs, and generate revenue for local entrance communities, all while promoting responsible stewardship of our natural resources.
The budget also includes a new proposal, the presidential capital stewardship program for priority construction and beautification progress in and around the nation's capital region to address years and years of inadequate maintenance. This program will support the president's Make America Beautiful Again agenda and improve safety and accessibility, rehabilitate historic buildings and landscape and enhance the overall visitor experience in Washington DC and the surrounding area. Iconic monuments, memorials and landscapes supported by these projects will continue to be protected by the US Park Police. The US Park Police is a separate law enforcement group founded by George Washington in 1791. Under the president's leadership has enabled the US Park Police to expedite the hiring of more than 300 new officers to keep our nation's capital and national park areas in New York, San Francisco, and Washington DC regions safe and beautiful.
And the budget includes an increase of a $111,000,000 for these dedicated law enforcement offices and the equipment and tools they need to operate, especially as we see record crowds visiting these locations during our two hundred and fiftieth. Simply put this budget puts America first and Americans first while securing peace and prosperity for our country's future. I appreciate the subcommittee's support for the department's mission, and I look forward to working closely with you to advance the president's priorities. Thank you.
John Kennedy
Thank you, mister secretary. We will now begin a round of questions. I'm gonna ask colleagues to try to well, I'm going to insist that we keep our our our comments to five minutes so that we can get to a second round and also recognizing how much is on everyone's plate. So I will be I will set the standard here and I will keep my remarks and and your responses to less than five minutes. As I mentioned, mister secretary, this is this is a department that really relies on the good men and women and all that you have outlined in your opening statement in terms of priorities, whether it is building out and executing on the on the original or the the first day executive order to unleash Alaska's resource potential, or or whether it is the management of our of our parks.
It it all requires people. And so you and I have talked a lot about probate, and I'm actually gonna use my time here this morning to raise that one first. Because this is something that is not only fixable and manageable, but something that, in fairness, is contributing to the issue of housing shortages in my state, and I'm sure it is in others as well. Because when you have somebody who passes, and that home cannot be occupied until they resolve the probate, Families that have been living there are now locked out, literally locked out. And and when you say that it takes five to ten years to resolve something like this, unacceptable.
So I need you to explain to the committee how the BIA proposed budget and staffing levels are actually going to reduce the probate backlog, not only in my state, but across the country. The plans to hire more FTEs, the timeline on all of this, and how many probate cases do you think you're gonna be able to clear in this next year. We've talked about this specific strike teams that have gone to a couple areas, but we need to know that we're actually gonna see some results this year that are gonna be significant for the people and the families that are waiting.
Speaker 3
Thank you, Chairman, and thank you for caring deeply about this important issue. As you and I have discussed, when I got to the department, was surprised to find out the extent last year. It took a while because our systems are so antiquated, many of them actually in paper. It took a while to really get our handle on it. But we now, as of in the last month, now have got our arms around the scale of the problem.
There's 43,000 cases that need to be resolved. It's unacceptable that this would take, as you suggested eight years at current pace. As you mentioned, we have established strike teams. We've gone to areas of high concentration like the Navajo or MHA nation where we had an extraordinary amount of cases. We do have, we'd be happy to share with you.
We're now gonna for the first time ever have a publicly facing dashboard. The tribal members will be able to go and and take a look and and understand the data how we're moving through this work.
Speaker 3
And they'll be able to actually submit online. Right now, the process is you have to either walk into an office or you call into a call center, and then we start engaging with them via the mail. I mean, we send documents back and forth. We have people you talk about staffing. We have people in interior who at copying machines and licking stamps to try to move this process.
That's how antiquated this is. So getting this all moved online is going to dramatically increase our productivity. We're not applying AI to do the work, but we have applied AI, for example, to go through the 43,000 cases and say, how many of those cases are only missing one document to get it over the finish line? And then pulling all those out and then concentrating on a bunch, can we get a bunch of them off the table because we're really close to the finish line. We're also focusing on the dollar side.
There is over $730,000,000 estimated of assets. You described homes, but in some cases there's mineral acres that belong to tribal members. So taking a look at that and saying, do we have 10% of the cases that represent or 20% that represent 80% of the revenue and how do we get the dollars out? Because at the end of the day, getting people back the resources that are actually theirs that we're holding in trust is a part of what we need to do.
John Kennedy
So let me ask also about the Office of Hearing and Appeals OHA, because it's not just BIA where we've got the problem. We've got a big, big vacancy rate there. You need not only the judges, you need the staff there. My understanding is that more than half of OHA paralegal and legal assistant positions aren't filled. We've got several regions that have high vacancy rates over 30% for some of these.
So I need to know that when we're talking about about what's going on within BIA, we're also looking at OHA and how we address that. You know my issues, we need to be working to address this. It is, it's something that I hear about everywhere I go in the state. My five minutes are up, I'm turning to my colleague.
Speaker 3
But I would just say we are, I met with the leader of OHA this past week, Those positions are open. We're hiring. We're providing HR support to get those positions filled. We've got a good pipeline of candidates, but absolutely, Chairman, we need we need those as well to clear the backlog.
Jon Husted
Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair. And I want to turn to you mentioned the Great American Outdoors Act in your introductory comments, and, we have, 310,000,000 in the administration can actually spend right now in the context of, Washington, D. C. And the law requires submitting a detailed list of what's going to be done, with those funds. And I have here the administration's submission, and all it says is TBD.
So it's a very specific set of funding and yet surely you must have a a list of what you plan to do with that money and what you're providing to congress is simply TBD, to be determined. Have you not figured out what you wanna do with that funds? And if you haven't figured it out, why not?
Speaker 3
We will work with you senator to get you the information that you need regarding those projects. And as you know, the budget came out at the January for this fiscal year and LRF for 2027 hasn't been authorized yet. But if you're talking about the dollars that are in the accrued interest account, yes, that list is still being worked on.
Jon Husted
Okay. But you've also asked for an additional $10,000,000,000 for the president's capital stewardship program. Can you commit to getting us a detailed list of what is to be done with those funds so that we can exercise our appropriate responsibility?
Speaker 3
We'll be we'll get you all the information you need according to the law, sir.
Jon Husted
And if you do not provide that information, do you agree that we should not provide the funds because we should be efficient with people's money and and if you have no idea why how you're spending it, we should we should leave it in the bank?
Speaker 3
I I think that the what this committee understands and knows is that we have a $35,000,000,000 backlog of deferred maintenance across
Jon Husted
Which would make it very easy to give us a specific list. But if you're asking for a slush fund, I think a better approach and it's actually required under what we passed for fiscal year 'twenty six is a detailed representation of how those are to be spent. I'm just asking you to abide by the law and not try to turn this into a slush fund. Can you agree to do that?
Speaker 3
I think it's a mischaracterization and an offense to the people that work in interior Okay.
Jon Husted
Thank you. As long as we don't have the details, it's a slush fund. And you can call it something else if you want. But let's let's turn to a few other pieces of this. Am very concerned about the communication with the committee.
This oversight committee has been shut out of information from the department even though we strengthen our reprogramming requirements by adding an advanced notification requirement into the statute. But we haven't been notified in advance of the recent deferred resignation offer or the creation of the Marine Minerals Administration. Both clearly fall under our statutory requirement. We have not received several other items required by law, Land Water Conservation Fund supplemental list required in law to accompany the president's budget. We don't have the project data sheets for the National Park Services, 310,000,000 as I mentioned, seven months of obligation reports required by section four sixteen, two quarterly disaster estimates required by law for the Big Bend, Texas and North Cascades, Washington.
It's certainly a pattern, and I recognize that the interior department's a pretty vast and complex enterprise. But can you strive? Can you assure us you'll strive to actually meet the statutory requirements so that we can do our best job in fulfilling our responsibility?
Jon Husted
Thank thank you. I appreciate that. I am very concerned, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, about the politicization of the Land Water Conservation Fund. In fiscal year 2526, and '27, with very few exceptions, the department has only proposed projects in redder states. I just don't think that's the way to go.
Can you commit to taking the partisanship out of that process and serving all of America?
Speaker 3
Well, I I can say that I have not been involved in any decisions that were driven politically other than the prioritization. And I think there's some that would some Republicans would take issue with this. So when we had a billion dollars of BOR money to spend and half of it went to California, there was people that were wondering why it wasn't being spent in red states. So I think wherever when we have a shortage of money to spend wherever we spend it, people can draw conclusions. But the only way we'd solve that problem is if we fully funded deferred maintenance across all agencies.
John Kennedy
Thank you. We're being really good. We set a great example in keeping to our five minutes. Senator Hovind.
Speaker 4
Thank you, madam chair. Secretary, good to see you. Thanks for being here. Thanks for your service. The Eastern North Dakota alternative water supply program is incredibly important.
Water supply, municipal, and residential, industrial water supply for all of Eastern North Dakota. We've been able to secure a 158,000,000 for it through both the one big beautiful bill and through the appropriations process last year. In addition, we're able to use the McCluskey Canal both because of legislation and completing the environmental impact statement, is about a $200,000,000 savings to taxpayers and benefit to the project that we don't have to now fund with building other structures. It will also save about $4,000,000 a year. So that's over $350,000,000.
Speaker 10
Terms of progress we've made in terms of the federal obligation to fund that water supply long standing. This goes back all the way fifty years or more, matching the commitment made by the state of North Dakota as well as many local communities, I think more than 30 local communities who've stepped up. And so the federal government is doing matching its share and as obligated to do so. Will you continue to help us to fund and complete that vitally important project for all of Eastern North Dakota? Yes.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I I would say with a smile on my face, that project's going on so long that senator Dorgan and senator Conrad worked on that for decades. So it was a blue state project and now it's a red state.
I mean, is a perfect example of just doing the thing, the right thing that's for the people to get something done. But I would also say that I know from my prior position, the state of North Dakota is paying a higher percentage of its share than almost any other water project in the country. And I think one of the ways to prioritize where the dollars goes is which states are willing to put up more money because that's a way to extend the federal dollars even further.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And that's absolutely true and much appreciated. And your help is much appreciated there. In Theodore Roosevelt National Park, which you've had opportunity to visit on occasion, we have wild horses there. And they're very important, not only to the people of the state of North Dakota, but to the visitors that come to see these wild horses.
I've got legislation in to protect those wild horses along with senator Kane, bipartisan legislation. And and he's involved because we actually are following the approach that's been taken on the East Coast with some of the ponies they have on some of the islands and so forth in the national parks. Do you support that legislation? Will you help us enact it?
Speaker 3
Entirely support you on that project. And the management by the Theodore Roosevelt National Park, I mean, challenges we have, say, BLM land in Nevada where we've got 80,000 wild burrows and horses causing thing. Management of the approximately 200 or so horses in the park is exemplary in terms of how a park should do it over that size of a park. And you've been instrumental in working that senator both when you were governor and now a senator. So thanks for helping to preserve that great element of the park.
Speaker 4
And in fact, we provide for that management to make sure that we don't have an issue as far as too many horses for the park and that and for the health and diversity of the herd. Right? That's an important point.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Right on. And then at Camp Grafton, have a BIA law enforcement training center. We've had incredible enrollment. And again, we've got Artesia in New Mexico, which does an incredible job.
Course, Of that's in the Southwest part of the country up in the Upper Plains. We need that law enforcement training as well. We're we're really behind or or down in terms of filling BIA law enforcement vacancies on reservation. This is vitally important law enforcement issue. So we need this training center.
We've made, like I say, great progress there in developing it developing it and growing it. Will you commit to helping us continue to do that?
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. This is something that, as governor, I was also supporting and championing and you know, you've been a great champion of this thing and its location right adjacent to the Spirit Lake tribal nation, perfect location. And again, of it is recruiting and retaining people from the Northern Plains tribes has been difficult. And but having having a training center closer to where people have grown up closer to the tribes are gonna work and will be definitely help us on retention. Final point, talk about the importance of multiple use, multiple use with good stewardship, but multiple use on public lands.
Well, it's a first of all, it's the law and it's how when public lands were set aside under the multi use doctrine and that includes access for hunting, fishing, appropriate mineral development, ranching, timber development. We'd gone down a path in this country where somehow people thought if it was public land, you weren't supposed to set a foot on it, you weren't supposed to cut a tree, weren't you supposed to develop minerals, you definitely weren't supposed to do, you know, energy production. That's not how this was set up. That's not the law. The law is the multiple use doctrine, and we're working to ensure that that happens.
Patty Murray
Thank you, madam chair. Mister secretary, I I wanna start with the Clauer property, which I mentioned to you in the anteroom. This was actually funded in f y twenty five. It's it's on the list, and it seems to be hung up. What I've been told is it's, quote, unquote, under review.
This is a project that, one, I think we need to make good to the folks who who came to the federal government and said we want this to be part of the overlook for the Rio Grande Gorge. They are not my constituents, but I think it's very important that when the federal government makes a commitment, we stand by that commitment. It's it's been hung up for quite a while. What's a reasonable time for me to get a response from the department on when that will be moving forward?
Speaker 3
Well, I appreciate you bringing it up to me this morning and and bringing this back to the top, but I would be having from when I was made aware of it to coming in here, I've not had a chance to find out the time timeline, but I'll commit that we'll get to you in the next twenty four hours on what the timeline is for the resolution on that.
Patty Murray
Appreciate that very much. Your department recently announced plans to reverse the the mineral withdrawal around Chaco Canyon National Historic Park. I I would be remiss if I didn't point out that that's over the objection of New Mexico's governor, New Mexico's land commissioner, myself, the junior senator from New Mexico, the entire congressional delegation. You know, even even secretary Bernhardt, who visited Chaco Canyon with me, came to a different conclusion in the first Trump administration. And so I'm concerned that, one, there have been no scheduled public meetings around this reversal.
There has been no opportunity for general public comment. The only opportunity for comment was a very short seven day scoping period. And that is in contrast to the withdrawal itself, which took a year and a half with a total of one hundred and fifty days for public comment, multiple public meetings. I think there were five. And so, you know, I I don't expect that I'm gonna be able to persuade you to necessarily reverse your position on this.
Speaker 5
But one thing I think you commented very strenuously about in your confirmation hearing was the need for act actual direct engagement and consultation with with tribal nations. And so I I've heard from multiple tribal nations, Pueblos in particular, that have not received an opportunity for direct tribal consultation. And so I would ask you if you can commit to completing individual in person consultation with the tribal nations, with the Pueblos that have a direct relationship to that landscape before completing your review.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'd be happy to commit to that. And I think that since you're so close to this, you would know that this is a I don't want to elevate it to tribal versus tribal. But while the Pueblo supported, some of the first people that were in my office were the Navajos that did not support it, but in part not I wouldn't say as a tribe, but definitely for the tribal citizens who had energy This
Patty Murray
is a complicated issue. There are 19 tribes that consider this a very sacred space. As you know, New Mexico produces a lot of energy. We produce more oil and gas than 49 of the 50 states. But we don't drill in sacred spaces.
And there has been a general consensus that this is one of those places that should receive additional protection. Setting that aside, I think the direct consultation is very important. I'm running out of time and the chair is she's tough. So I want to talk about the National Park Service. In the first eleven months of this administration, the Park Service lost 2,750 employees.
That's 15% of its workforce. It's now down around 24%, and this budget proposes an additional reduction of 25. We're We're coming up on the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this incredible nation. Why is our National Parks I mean, the Park Service is the easiest thing we do on this committee. Like, we fight about all kinds of stuff.
But we all have park units that are incredibly important to our nation's history, to our individual states. Why is the Park Service not more of a priority in this budget?
Speaker 3
I think the question we're trying to ask is why did so many people that worked for the National Park Service not work in a park? What we're driving towards, because again, even in the ranking member's opening remarks, talked about, you know, rangers and snowplow drivers and maintenance workers, whatever. And our goal is to have more people actually working in the parks, but we could have more people in the parks and still have what will look like a dramatic percentage reduction.
Patty Murray
I think you'll find a lot of support for putting more people in the parks. But I visited three national parks in the last month, and all of them were understaffed.
Speaker 3
Well, have there's 5,500 summer positions that were set up last fall for hiring. With your support, I want to thank the committee. One of things that was put in the appropriations bill last year gave us the opportunity to do local hiring for the first time. So if we have someone who lives locally and has housing, they can be hired. And as opposed to going through a federal system, which takes forever to hire, I think we have five ninety full time positions that could also qualify for those local hiring.
And then on the summer and part time, we would like you to include in the budget to be able to have those be up to nine months as opposed to up to six months, because that will give our superintendents a lot more flexibility in hiring. So again, reducing the number of people at district, regional and DC, increasing the number of people in the parks, expanding the timeframe on the summer seasonal hires and the local hiring, all of that's gonna help us get this thing in shape, even with a overall reduction. And if we have an overall reduction in operating costs, that'll free up more money for the capital expenditures that we all need.
John Kennedy
do think that this is an area though, as senator Heinrich mentions, that you're gonna find a lot of support across the dais here for our national parks. So we wanna continue this aspect of the discussion to ensure that we do have good folks in these positions. I like what is being opened up with regards to the local hire. I think that that helps all of our communities, and I think that that's a good step. But know that there's this is an issue of mutual concern.
Let's turn to senator Capito.
Speaker 5
Thank you. And and I'm gonna stick on the national parks. We have a a our relatively new in 2020, president Trump signed into law the New River Gorge National Park And Preserve. And it has just far exceeded the economic benefits of that region. And people from all over the world are visiting, and we're really excited about that.
But in order to make these destinations as desirable as they are, I I really would advise against raising visitor fees for the New River Gorge or any of the other parks. Where are you with I I did read that you were going to raise fees. Where are you on that?
Speaker 3
No raise fees for Americans, but that we did put in place a international visitor fee increase, to come in line with international flagship parks around the world charge Americans when Americans are visiting other locations.
Speaker 3
It is in our, specifically in some of our flagship parks. I don't know specifically if it applies to New River Gorge.
Speaker 5
Okay. The other thing I would say is just recently in terms of personnel, it was just announced a new state a new superintendent, one of our own West Virginians coming home, which we're very excited about, Moss Rudley. There's been a history at that park that the superintendent has shared responsibilities with another park. I'd like your assurance that this is that mister Rudley is going to be there as a superintendent solely dedicated to that facility.
Speaker 3
Alright. You can have our commitment on that, and we're excited about Ross taking that role. Glad glad you got a West Virginian coming back, and it's and the the park has exceeded the expectations. Beautiful spot. I had a chance to float it when it was before it was a national park, and it's really spectacular.
Speaker 5
It is. And it just was rated the most underrated national park in the system, so we're excited about that. I want to talk about something, I'm glad Senator Heinrich is here, that we are working on, and that's permitting reform. A recent McKinsey study found that $1,200,000,000,000 in capital is waiting on the sidelines because of outdated federal permitting policies. You know this well.
Speaker 11
They could be invested in building projects to all across the board, quality of life projects, and leasing unleashing investments, unlock supply of essential commodities, all kinds of things. And in your role, obviously, as chair of the dominance council, you you see this yourself. We need to learn from the existing systems failures and craft solutions that align with what the American people want and need. That's affordability, predictability, and opportunity. So as chair of the EPW committee, he's the ranking member over on ENR.
Speaker 5
He and senator Lee and and senator White house and I, along with the White House, have been I think this is our best opportunity here that we've had to make lasting improvements to NEPA, the judicial review process, substantive environmental laws like Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, Endangered Species. Improving this will, I think, have vast legacy building for all of us who are participating in this. How would you discuss permitting reform in terms of affordability and economic growth? How do you see this?
Speaker 3
I see it as essential. I see it as one of one of the core factors that's reducing American competitiveness worldwide is that we can't get anything permitted. Capital wants to be spent here. You mentioned the $1,200,000,000,000 number. I think that number is low, but this is Boards of directors, small businesses, schools, cities, states have said, we wanna spend this money, and then they're all waiting for a permit.
And if they spend their money, that means jobs. That means, you know, better infrastructure. That means, you know, safer communities. It is absolutely essential. This is the moment.
If there's anything we can do to help help Congress get the permitting bill over the line, happy to do it. Internally, we're doing a number of things with to make sure that NEPA and ESA get back in within their original the original law of what that was intended as opposed to become just weapons to use to stop development in America.
Speaker 5
Yeah. How how would you frame this also? I mean, we see this president with his deregulation, which I welcome, and and his executive orders, which I welcome. But we fully know that the previous administration had different executive orders and had different regulatory how does the permanence of permitting reform in your mind bring about that lasting effect of predictability that's so critical?
Speaker 3
Well, it has durability and then it allows projects to stand on their own merits as opposed to be, as I say, weaponized so that every project, no matter what it is, a bridge, a road, a building, it doesn't have to even be an energy project. Everything becomes politicized and weaponized in this country. And if we're a nation that can't build great things, build them safely and quickly, we're we're gonna lose on the world stage. And so this is a it's absolutely essential that this permitting bill goes forward.
Speaker 5
Well, thank you for what you've already done in this. And I know the folks working for you have been very critical. And I wanna thank my colleague over on, ENR and others, many on this panel that have been working on this. We're we're gonna try to get it to the finish line, but we need you and the administration with us as you have been, but, to be successful. Thank you.
John Kennedy
Key priorities, senator Kaplow. Thank you. We will now turn to the ranking member of the full committee, senator Murray.
Patty Murray
Thank you very much, chair Murkowski, senator Merkley for all your work on this really important subcommittee. I think I share the passion with senator Heinrich that our national parks, what is involved in interior, is so critical to our economies here at at home and to our people and to really the face of America, to many Americans. So this is really an important topic that we're on today, and I have some comments on that. But I wanted to ask you first, because last year, when you were here, we talked about the critical need to repair the Hurricane Ridge Day Lodge. You're aware it's an historic lodge.
Speaker 7
It was burned down in a fire about three years ago. And in 2024, I worked across the aisle to secure 80,000,000 in emergency funding to rebuild that structure. Since that funding was secured, it has been waiting on the National Park Service now to finalize a plan for reconstruction. I know you visited Hurricane Ridge. I hope you appreciate how important that facility is.
It supports tourism in the entire region. It is critical for the safety of many of the people who visit there. And I want to ask you if you can share a progress report on the rebuilding effort.
Speaker 3
I I'm not current on that senator, but having been to that site, I've taken an action item right now to check on that today on on where we're at and how we can move that forward.
Speaker 7
Okay. And if you could get back to me and my staff, I would really appreciate it.
Speaker 7
Mister secretary, last year you told this committee that your work to force out one in five parks employees would somehow make the park service smarter, more effective. I've kind of heard the same words this morning. We're not seeing that in my state. When you visited Olympic National Park last year, you met with biologists. I think you'll remember they were working to restore salmon in the Elwha River.
Well, because of the administration's policies, Olympic is down to just one one permanent staff on its fisheries team. Mount Rainier, critical to our country, to our region. They're down to four people on a road crew that used to have 14. These are people out in the parks. They're not sitting in a building someplace.
And at Stahikan, which is in our North Cascades, which needs all the support it can because of severe flooding, you've eliminated staff to the point that they can't even open their visitors center now. So I wanted to ask you, what is your plan to get these basic services back up and running? It is unacceptable that they can't even staff a visitor center.
Speaker 3
Well, we'll continue to work with each park because we're having different results by different parks. I mean, some parks even last year had a higher number of people working in the parks than they had in prior years. And so we'll, as an action item here, I'll take the parks that you mentioned and make sure that we're providing all the support we need because the recs are open. There's 5,500 summer hire recs. There's five ninety three full time recs that are open for people to hire.
If
Speaker 7
we I'm need confused because in this budget proposal, you're eliminating 3,000 national park staff and a quarter of them have already been forced out this on top of that. You're proposing a 38
Speaker 3
I just wanted to clarify. The the multiple people have been saying forced out. There's been no forcing of anything. These are all voluntary. And then we have on the list if So they
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's a voluntary early retirement program. There is nobody that's been forced out. Have been zero rifts
Speaker 3
But now you're prepared. They they took we offered early retirement, and they took it. But if somebody is the sole person doing
Speaker 7
retirement I know what you're saying. You're saying they left because they wanted to, but
Speaker 3
But I I can finish my sentence. When voluntarily leave, then if they put their name on the list and we say, nope, you're the only one doing that thing, we say, we're sorry. We know that you wanted to volunteer or retire, but you're eligible for it. Could we refused Let me we refused hundreds of
Speaker 7
A few minutes, and I wanna tell you, in your budget that you are asking us to follow, you are eliminating 3,000 national park staff. However you wanna put it, a quarter of them left over the last fifteen months. You're proposing a 38% cut to parks facilities operation and maintenance. These are the road crews, things like that. A 35% cut for support staff and over 50% of funding for resource stewardship.
To me, that is just a recipe for disaster for our parks. It'll make them run less effectively, more dangerous for the people, that visit if they don't have the staff and tools to support any kind of science or stewardship. And so, I am deeply concerned about the budget that we're going have to look at here that you've proposed. And I want you to know from on the ground, that is what we are seeing and hearing and feeling. And by the way, you you you just talked about staff leaving.
You are actually conflating seasonal hires with permanent staff when you throw all the numbers together. But my time is almost up, I I do wanna ask you I wanna ask you a question. Since president Trump put his face on the National Park Pass, has he visited a single one of our national parks since he was born in?
Speaker 3
To that, I'm not certain about the president's. He's a very, very heavy travel schedule and I'm not certain of that or not.
Speaker 7
Okay. I was passing that question on from people who asked me, okay, spaces on the past. Has he ever visited one of these? I just think it's
Speaker 3
Well, he's been to many places that are managed by the National Park System and
Speaker 7
I'm including talking about our National Parks. That's the park passes people have.
Speaker 3
The park passes also apply to our historic sites, our military sites, our military cemeteries. He's been to many places managed by the National Park Service in the past year.
Speaker 7
We have a difference of opinion. Okay. Secretary Brigham, you are here to ask for requests for your budget. It is hard to talk about next year's funding when a lot of this year's funding has not gone out the door. Your agency has been sitting on critical invasive species funding for the European green crab.
This is a population that is not slowing down. It's why multiple federal agencies have invested in monitoring and mitigation, including the Department of Interior. So I just want you to know, from our end, you've dropped the ball, and we need to see that money go out the door. And I wanted to ask you, when is that money gonna go out the door?
Speaker 3
I'm not familiar with the European Green Crab budget number, but I will certainly check into that.
Speaker 7
Okay, it's money that's supposed to go out the door and it's sitting there, it's not going out the door. Okay. And can you get back to me with an answer?
Speaker 7
Okay. Well, I am deeply concerned as I mentioned about this budget request that we have that defunds our tribes. It pushes out park employees. It freezes and ignores laws that we've passed. And I think it is really critical that we all face up to the reality of these are our national parks, it's where our families visit, it's where we our communities depend on them.
They are the face of our nation to both national and international travelers, and we have a responsibility to make sure they are up and running correctly. So I look forward to working
John Kennedy
with the chair. Thank you to the ranking member. And just to the secretary, the the green crabs, they came north from Washington state. We don't want them either.
John Kennedy
didn't start them. We're not gonna argue over who started them, but none of us want them. So that is something that we'll we'll work with you on. Senator Rounds.
Speaker 12
Thank you, madam chair. Mister secretary, good morning. One of the top priorities for the Cheyenne River Sioux tribe is construction of a new school in Eagle Butte. Current one was built early 1970s. The current school is in desperate need of replacement and has been at the top of the Bureau of Indian Affairs or the Bureau of Indian Education's new school replacement list for a number of years.
Speaker 8
Despite this, it is unclear both to my office and to the tribe what the long term plan to fund the replacement project is. Could you share with me what the plan would be to fully fund the school replacement project at Cheyenne Eagle Butte? I recognize you've probably got a ton of these things there. If you don't have the information, or if you're not familiar with it, would you get back to me with what the plan is?
Speaker 3
Happy to get back with more details, but I am familiar. I mean, this is such a large and important project. I know that over $200,000,000 has already been set aside for this project. The, of course, there's a discussion going on on scoping and I think there's a difference of opinion on the scoping because of course with this project is so substantial and includes local infrastructure, includes housing for teachers because it's a remote area. There's some inflationary aspects because of because of, you know, getting contractors into that area.
But I think there still is several $100,000,000 differential between the one of the estimates for what it would take to do everything on the plan versus what it would take to get a school open. And so working through and getting agreement on that and if we can work with your office to help get to a number, we can help get this project going forward. But this would be one of the largest projects we're doing in the country.
Speaker 8
No, that's correct, sir. And look, it's been a long time in the making. It just simply is the school's worn out. Yes.
Speaker 8
I am concerned about that along with I think earlier there was indication that 85% of school funding has been cut was the comment that was made earlier by the ranking member. Could you comment on that a little bit about how that works into the planning and so forth? I don't know that you had an opportunity to respond to that earlier.
Speaker 3
Well, didn't, but I don't there's definitely not enough money across this entire school system that we have nationally to go build all these new buildings because the appropriations just aren't gonna be there. I mean, we aren't gonna see that, but I think the thing to focus on is the 105 capability where if you could get a commitment where the federal government could say, we're gonna pay a lease and then somebody else works on building it and whether that's a bond from the state, a bond from some other group, but, you know, maybe in conjunction with the 200,000,000 that we've already allocated. But I think we just have to sit down and come up with a financing package the way school districts have to do around our country if they're trying to build new schools of this scale and see if we can work it through. The number the numbers go through the roof if you say through appropriations, say through this committee, we're going to fund all the schools we need in the country. I think there's got to be a financing component here as well.
Speaker 8
Well, I think the fact that this has been the number one on the list for some time, I think is the reason why I'm putting emphasis on it. And it is in a rural area, and it's going to be a challenge. But nonetheless, it serves a lot of kids. So I appreciate your working with our office and I look forward to finding a path forward.
Speaker 8
Thank you, sir. And I was glad to see that the Bureau of Indian Affairs FY twenty seven budget request does support funding for tribally operated or affiliated radio stations in Indian country. The role of these stations play a critical role in providing essential and emergency information to tribal communities. We worked on this last year. OMB came through, put the resources together for it.
It's about 12 I mean, it's a lot of money. $12,000,000. Can you share just how important it is for these tribal radio stations to continue to be funded?
Speaker 3
Well, I I think as anybody that spent time in Indian country in states like like ours in the West, senator, you know that not landlines are not a thing in many parts of these rural residents. Cell service is often sketchy even though some of the tribes do run their own cellular programs. Radio is often sometimes the only way people can reach information and whether it's winter storms or tornadoes, prairie fires. I mean, there there's real need for emergency information to be distributed to a population and I know the the the tribal chairs and the tribal councils all count on this for getting information out, not just about emergencies, but about events going on in the community and about important things that the people of the tribal members need to know. So again, thank you for being such a strong champion of this important program.
Speaker 8
Well, appreciate it. My time has expired. But I will put together a question for the record regarding law enforcement and appropriate law enforcement funding for some of our huge sized tribes in terms of geographic area that perhaps in the formulas is not fairly represented in terms of the actual costs versus some of the smaller tribes with higher populations but in a denser area and what the challenges are there and perhaps we can work on modifications to some of the guidelines for how those funds are distributed in the future, sir.
Speaker 3
Well, welcome that because it's absolutely true. I of we, I know that we share a standing rock between North and South Dakota. It's about the size of Connecticut and we have other tribes that are, that might be have the same population, but they're in the size of a small metro area versus the size of a state. And it requires different levels of law enforcement just from those response times.
Speaker 8
Thank you, sir. And I appreciate working with you, and I look forward to working with you again in the future.
Speaker 7
The the rights protection implementation line in the interior and environment appropriations bill helps fulfill federal treaty, trust, and contract obligations to tribes. In the Great Lakes region, the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission, otherwise known as GLIFWIC, implements comprehensive conservation, natural resource protection, and law enforcement programs. I'm deeply concerned that President Trump's budget proposes to slash this funding by 85%. With a cut that deep, the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission would be unable to maintain its basic functions. So, Secretary Bergen, do you agree with the President's proposed 85% cut to the rights protection implementation line item?
Speaker 10
And can you speak to your commitment to helping ensure that the department fulfills federal treaty trust and contract obligations to tribes and has the resources to actually do so?
Speaker 3
Well, I certainly can. It's part of our job is to fill those treaty obligations. I think one of the things in on this one, if we can have a conversation with your staff and my staff, there was some thought about potential duplication or other alternative programs through whether US Fish and Wildlife. We are trying to gain some efficiencies with the also proposed in the budget, the 178,000,000 that would come over from NOAA to US Fish and Wildlife to eliminate the redundancy of trying to manage two separate staffs on two separate endangered fish list. So I think there was some thinking that with the work that was going on there, that frees up having to do some of this in a third area through grants inside of BIA.
But we all, the mission needs to be accomplished, but we don't need sometimes three different federal agencies trying to do the same thing. In
Speaker 10
terms of the support that this particular line item gives to GLIFWIC in the Great Lakes, they would simply be unable to fulfill these important functions and missions. Changing subjects, Wisconsin sits directly in the path of the Mississippi Flyway. It's a bird migration route that significantly contributes, unfortunately, to the transmission of avian influenza, which in turn spills over into domestic poultry flocks. This spring in Wisconsin, we lost over 4,300,000 hens to the outbreak, and had two farms that in combination laid off 87 employees. The U.
S. Fish and Wildlife Service is statutorily responsible for monitoring wild bird populations for avian flu. Your budget proposes significant resource reductions that would undercut this responsibility. And so my questions are these: Under the proposed cuts to staffing and agency resources, what is your plan to maintain early detection surveillance for avian flu in wild birds along major flyways like the Mississippi Flyway? And how will the department notify Wisconsin's poultry producers and public health officials if that surveillance capacity is no longer sufficient, and you are unable to provide timely warning of an outbreak?
Speaker 3
Well, of course, the plan and the goal is to make sure that we are providing sufficient coverage for that. But as I've described with the Park Service, the same thing with US Fish and Wildlife, there have been many over decades, many layers outside of the refuges itself that have been built up. And we're trying to reduce overhead, put more people on the front lines and less HR, less comms people, more wildlife biologists is where we're trying to get to. So again, as we're trying to hire back in the positions we need and reduce the ones where we could be a bit leaner to help us maintain our core functions that were the core that what we're there to do.
Speaker 10
Okay. I'm going to take the last question for the record, because I think we'll run out of time. But the Upper Midwest Environmental Sciences Center in La Crosse has been conducting ecological research on the Upper Mississippi River for decades now. It employs 86 people and leads the nation's research on blocking invasive carp from entering the Great Lakes. And this work protects a fishery industry worth billions of dollars.
Your fiscal year twenty twenty six and now fiscal year twenty twenty seven budget proposals would zero out the ecosystems mission area and decommission this facility. This is something that Congress rejected last year. Your budget document now suggests that this work could be picked up by states and universities. And so I ask which state or university has agreed to take over the work of the Upper Midwest Environmental Sciences Center?
Speaker 3
Those conversations haven't been initiated. If there was, you know, support from this body to do that or suggestions on who might partner with even in your state, be happy to conduct those.
Jon Husted
Thank you. Thank you, secretary Brigham for being here today. As a as someone from Ohio who has witnessed over the course of the last twenty plus years the closure of power plant after power plant after power plant of electric generation across the Ohio River Valley, we now find ourselves in a situation where we have a supply and demand problem because on the other side of that equation, we've had more manufacturing, more demand for electricity for electric cars, and certainly from data centers that power the digital economy. And so I was thrilled to see the Trump administration come to Ohio a few weeks ago to talk about the groundbreaking potential for a $33,000,000,000 natural gas power facility at the Portsmouth gaseous diffusion plant in Piketon. And the people there are hopeful, but they've been disappointed before of administrations of the past that promised they would do things and then didn't do it.
Speaker 11
And and I know you're just one part of the conversation Department of Energy, Department of Commerce, and others. And I was just curious what you could tell me about your role in that and what we need to do to scale? Because we sit atop Ohio, Utica, and Marcellus Shale in that area, we can supply a lot of gas to power the plant. Do we have the infrastructure in place? What do you need from the state of Ohio and and what will the role will you play in this and what can you tell me about the project?
Speaker 3
Well well, senator, first of all, very exciting project. And as you noted at the top of your remarks, we need to reverse this trend of shutting down baseload in this country. You know, there was a I would say an ideology words that said if we transitioned from our stable and our secure and our US based seven by 24 reliable, affordable energy to something that was intermittent and weather dependent that that transition would lead to lower costs. It led to higher costs for consumers and then in the advent, which you described, the biggest demand pressure for electricity in any of our lifetimes, it's the miracle that America helped figure out how to turn electricity into light and heat but to turn it into intelligence, that's an entirely new thing. The demand for electricity is is skyrocketing.
The project like the one you're describing in Ohio where you take all of this amazing natural gas that we have as a country and be able to turn it into power right there and then utilize much of that power right there. It's it's a it's a it's a triple win. It's a win for the country. It's a win for Ohio. It's a win for affordability because there's no cost related to transmission and the power is generated seven by 24, not just when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing.
And so it is the lowest cost energy that we can produce right now is natural gas, gas to electricity. And then, and of course, it states that support projects like this are gonna see a wave of capital investment because the advanced manufacturing and distribution are gonna require more electricity in their plants going forward, whether it's because of the use of intelligence or the use of robotics. And so we're gonna see capital flowing to the places where there is power and affordable, reliable power. Ohio is one of those places. So it's great that Ohio is embracing this.
We have other states, you know, that are their state legislators are banning artificial intelligence manufacturing. Mean, it's like saying we don't want any capital investment in the future. I mean, when I was a governor, every governor was competing with every other governor to get capital to come to their state. Now we have some states saying they don't want it. So Ohio's got a winning strategy and this is a very exciting project.
We will do everything across the Energy Dominance Council, whether it's working with the EPA, working with permitting to make sure that we can cut red tape, follow all the laws and get projects like this going because it's important to national competitiveness and national security.
Speaker 11
Yeah. Well, thank you for that. It's super important that you keep the state of Ohio informed. I would very much like to be informed to let us know what impediments may because we have a supply and demand problem. Shutting down all those power plants was a mistake, and it left us vulnerable.
And it's driving up people's electric prices, and it's wrong. And we gotta get new supply on the in the market as fast as we can. This announcement from the administration is welcome news to that. And and I just wanna encourage us to go as fast as possible because people are depending on it.
Speaker 3
Well, and thank you for acknowledging the shutdowns. The with the secretary Wright and the rest of the administration using all of our authorities, we were able to keep 17 gigawatts of base load open in the last fifteen months that would have been prematurely shut down. Without that during winter storm fern, we would have tens of millions of Americans out of power for weeks because we were running right on the red line two months ago in terms of not having enough baseload power for the grid to operate.
John Kennedy
Thank you, senator Houston. It's good to have you on the committee. Senator Van Hollen.
Speaker 8
Thank you, madam chair. Mister secretary, last time we had a hearing like this part of the preparations process, I emphasized the importance of the health of the Chesapeake Bay and the important role that Department of Interior plays in that. And you assured me that you would be a good partner in that effort. I'm disappointed that the budget once again calls for cuts in the Department of Interior programs that most benefit the bay, fish and wildlife program, and a program in the geological survey. I will once again work with my colleagues on a bipartisan basis, to make sure that we restore that funding or make sure that it it continues at current levels.
Speaker 12
Another local issue of great importance in this region has to do with the National Links Trust. And you terminated the lease held by the National Links Trust with three historic DC municipal golf courses that have long provided residents in this region with affordable access to golf. The East Potomac Golf Links, Langston Golf Course, and Rock Creek Park Golf. Secretary, are you a golfer yourself?
Speaker 3
I would a couple of times a year, but I'm not sure anybody would call me a golfer.
Speaker 12
Well, you're you're probably like me then. I'm not very good at it. I have played at the Rock Creek Park Golf Course, and these golf courses are intended to provide an affordable experience for people. So it's very troubling that right now at the East Potomac Golf Links, it's being used as a place to deposit debris from the president's East Wing Ballroom expansion. Here here's my question, to you.
Is your intention to make sure that all three of these golf courses remain available and accessible and affordable for golfers in this region?
Speaker 12
Okay. Could you respond to a letter that senator Ulster Brooks and others wrote to you back in January on this exact issue? Can I get a commitment that you'll respond to that letter?
Speaker 12
Well, team has it. I I Yep. Assuming that they will they they should be providing those those letters to you for response. I wanna ask you about the the National Park system and, you know, the Trump executive order to try to rewrite history. I think a lot of us were were troubled that the administration decided to keep sort of free access days for a lot of federal holidays and actually added one for flag day, which happens to be the president's birthday, but terminated free access days for doctor King Day and and Juneteenth.
I mean I mean, that was just outrageous symbolism, but unfortunately expresses, I guess, the sentiment of this administration which seeks to divide the country and not unite the country. You've also gone about changing some of the descriptions at various national parks, including in Philadelphia and Harpers Ferry. I I wrote to you along with some of my colleagues about the changes at Harpers Ferry. Can you can you commit to responding to that letter?
Speaker 12
Alright. So an another great Marylander was Harriet Tubman of the Underground Railroad. Mister secretary, what do you think about when you hear about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad? What's the story there?
Speaker 3
Let me let me respond first, senator, to I was just at Harpers Ferry on Saturday, and I was did not see any I saw signage that needed to be replaced because of maintenance, hard to read, and was, you know, deteriorated. But I didn't see anything that was related to what you're describing, so I'd love to have more information about that.
Speaker 12
Well, it's it's partly we there's been a lot of reporting on this, and this is one of the reasons we sent you a letter on that. I mean, if if there's no change that you know of, concerns have been raised to us, and we're happy to bring the specifics to your attention. But on the question of Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, I mean, what do you think about when you hear that story?
Speaker 3
Well, oddly, and this is deeply personal, but my great grandmother was the first woman in Dakota territory with a college education. She got a college degree from Oberlin College when she she was a remarkable woman. Shortly after college, she was personally involved in during the civil war of freedmen, as they called them. She wrote a book called Freedmen of the South. Her name was Linda Slaughter.
So she was actively involved herself in the Underground Railroad in the South. She ended up meeting my great grandfather, was a surgeon for the Union Army. And they ended up moving to Fort Rice in North Dakota. So I think of Harriet Tubman as a historical figure that was part of this important movement.
Speaker 12
Right. If I could just ask you, because Harriet Tubman is she's a great American and also a great Marylander. And would you agree that the Underground Railroad would you agree with following statement? The Underground Railroad, the resistance to enslavement through escape and flight through the end of the civil war refers to the efforts of enslaved African Americans to gain their freedom by escaping bondage. Would you agree that that's a pretty good summary of what the Underground Railroad's all about?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Qualifying that I'm not a civil war historian, but, yeah, it seems quite reasonable to me.
Speaker 12
This this was erased from the website as part of the narrative, and it was replaced
Speaker 12
I'm talking about the the website for the the National Park Service rewrote the website explaining this history. The secretary
Speaker 12
For the for the Underground Railroad site. And if you go to the National Park Service webpage that introduces the Underground Railroad, it used to have a picture of Harriet Tubman, and it used to have the description I just read you, which is a very accurate description of what happened. That's just one example of some of these efforts to rewrite and whitewash our history. So I hope, mister secretary, you'll you'll go back and look at that along with other examples. Thank you, madam chair.
Speaker 9
Thank you. Senator Fisher. Thank you, madam chairman. Mister secretary, welcome. It's good to see you.
In the Department of Interior's budget request, it includes 2,800,000 in funds for new grants and partnerships with states, and it mentions emphasis support for rural fired assistance. And as you likely know, Nebraska has recently experienced the worst firefight wildfires in, our state's history and the ninth worst in the history of this country. In Nebraska, our state is primarily covered by rural volunteer fire departments. So, mister secretary, can you explain the opportunities that this additional funding could provide our volunteer fire departments and those firefighters and how we can continue to improve coordination with those local fire departments.
Speaker 3
Yes. I and I can and and I also, senator, wanted to say again, to to both your your governor, the emergency personnel, all those rural firefighters on the incredible epic scale fire that's already happened this year. I think it's a bellwether, you know, for what we might be facing in the West because of the dry weather. And it's one of the reasons why we need to make sure that not only do we get the the fire fix reauthorized that was led by some of this committee, but also that we make sure that we've got our firefighting structure in place and well funded as we head into this into this year. A key component of firefighting on the federal level because the fire doesn't know whether it's on federal land, state land, private land, and it doesn't know if it's on Bureau of Land Management uses Fish and Wildlife versus National Park versus Forest Service.
And yet we have had completely separate entities and I think of it like we've got the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force, but we had no joint chiefs of Staff. So part of the proposal on the Wildland Fire is to establish a unification of decision structure at the very top about how do we use aviation resources? Or is everybody paid the same and has the same benefits even though they wear different uniforms in different fronts? And then also, we do have the right level of engagement with state and local because when we fight fires, it's often in combination. We've got to make sure that even the communication tools that we're all using when you're fighting a fire, it's important that literally everybody's on the same channel.
So, a lot work to do, but we've hired a new national wildland fire leader who's began his career fourteen years as a hotshot. He's deeply respected by the people that are on the front lines, know, that are, you know, the teams that fight some of our most difficult fires in our most challenging locations. And then building out a structure where the firefighters all report up to firefighters all the way up to the fire chief who will report to me. And so again, and we've put out an order that this year it's gonna be a year of suppression, meaning that when a fire begins, we'll put it out. Sometimes we've had land managers that feel like they've been underfunded in terms of fuel load management.
And so they'll let a fire burn, you know, in a national park or in a wildlife refuge, they'll let it burn thinking like, oh, I can manage some of my fuel load. And then it turns out to those fires like we saw last year at Dragon Bravo, where we ended up losing the North Rim Lodge in the Grand Canyon National Park, when we, in retrospect, an approach of suppression versus containment might have saved hundreds of millions of dollars of historic properties.
Speaker 9
I agree with you. You fully understand drought and high winds and the the bad scenario that that can cause. It was, you know, hundreds of thousands of acres that burned and I just really compliment the first responders, the firefighters that came in and of course in rural Nebraska's and rural North Dakota neighbors. You've got your you've got your tank on the back of your pickup and it's full of water and you jump in and you you head to the fire. It it's devastating.
So to be able to have that coordination, thank you for that. And the and the communications a huge part of that, the radio communication. So I've I've been in range fires.
John Kennedy
Nebraska is proud to be home to the largest intact grassland and stabilized dune system in the Western Hemisphere, Nebraska Sand Hills where I'm from. And as you know, grassland fire management and suppression can be very different than the timber management. And one area that I hear quite frequently from Nebraska volunteer firefighters is the importance of ensuring that the federal firefighters are trained in that, grassland fire suppression. Can you walk me through how that budget request will assist the federal, firefighters to be able to prepared, be prepared for that? You know, as I as you were mentioning before, it's the communication, but do you do training with that as well?
Speaker 3
It's certainly part of the plan. I mean, is training, of course, people who go through all the training to be able to fight these fires. But when we build the National Wildland Service, having certifications across, you know, prairie versus forest versus, you know, different thing, I think is a reasonable thing that we would wanna be pursuing because, you know, I share your experience when I was my last couple months as governor, we had the first time we had fatalities, we lost two ranchers in a 128,000 acre fire that, you know, we called for federal help on hours after it started on a Saturday morning at 6AM and federal aviation showed up on Tuesday. We called on Saturday morning. Two ranchers had died, livestock had been lost, and we had aircraft on the ground in Bozeman, Montana that never got in the air until Tuesday.
Speaker 9
In the past we have federal land in Nebraska as well. And in the past, we've had fires on federal land where the federal employees are not they they don't want they don't want volunteers or a volunteer fire department to cross onto that boundary on federal land. And, we've had reemergence of fires after that because the full suppression of that fire didn't happen. What's the rule on that?
Speaker 3
Well, think I don't I don't I I can understand that that's happened and it's happened not just between federal and state, it's happened between different agencies. But I think if you we have to have a command structure where we're all working to the same goal because if some federal folks in that case were like, oh, we should let this burn because Burning Prairies is healthy.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And then it comes across and burns their ranch and burns their thing. And I know that I know that we've worked with ranchers in Nebraska just in the last month to help provide alternative grazing for them on BLM land. Been working our team's been working with the governor, but we're you know, there's there's again, coordination across all these jurisdictions is one of the goals of having a unified leadership team at the Wildland Fire, National Wildland Fire across all 50 states.
John Kennedy
Thank you. Thank you, senator Fisher. And I think on the on the issue of the the fire unification effort, I think as as you and I had discussed, we'll have opportunities as committee, as individual members to to learn more about the direction here. I'm gonna kind of use this next round for my lightning round and try to get through as many as I quickly can because many of these issues, mister secretary, are ones that I have raised with you before. And just sticking with the theme of permitting and making sure that BLM Alaska is is able to execute on on the many initiatives that they have in front of them.
But you know, they they manage roughly 70,000,000 acres. It's just a lot of lot of place. And in addition to management, they've got to to address the the land entitlement issues under ANCSA, the land entitlement issues under statehood, our Vietnam, our our native veteran allotments. It is it is just complex. It's big, and it remains understaffed.
We continue to hear about the delays in conveyances, in permitting, in the allotment process, and the project development. So just recognizing that you have what what the Alaska BLM office has in front of them. You mentioned the the record lease sale in the NPRA, which we are all excited about. But the concern is is that we don't have the people with the expertise in place to handle the permitting and all the actions that follow on that. We're talking about our Alaska gas LNG project.
Everything that goes into this. And given the workforce reductions and what we've seen with the deferred resignation retirement. I just need to know that you are keeping an eagle eagle eye on this to make sure that everything that is put in front of the teams, they're able to do without burning these good men and women out. We're worried that that that retirement looks pretty good if you've been pushed really hard. And I appreciate what you have shared with with senator Van Hollen, that if they're key, you don't let them take that voluntary.
But there are many, as as you and I know, who have just said, I've worked a long time. This is hard work. It's getting harder. And so know that we are really concerned about this and I just need your commitment that you're you're really focused on making sure that we've got the good people and enough to keep them there.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, have that commitment, Senator. And also know that we have since the beginning, including last year on these voluntary retirements, if someone was involved in the permitting, they were not eligible to even submit their name. And if people do submit, then we have the ability to say, Nope, sorry, you can't go. And we've made sure that we're sending that strong signal because that was an area we were left with, as you know, massive permitting backlogs.
The permitting backlog on oil and on drilling permits was of almost in a single year was like probate sized. I mean, we had 5,600 unprocessed drilling permits. We've chewed through 91% of that backlog. Part of that's holding on the staff. The other part is systems, IT systems.
We have to support our team members with better IT systems. These processes take too long, they're too manual. And we've hired some really great IT people. And the priority projects in IT have been, how do we help the permitting teams address the backlogs they have?
John Kennedy
Well, and I, again, I appreciate that you're keeping singularly focused to this. What I worry is is those who's who were told, no, you're too important. We need you. But then they haven't been given the additional support that they need. And so they don't wait for the next opportunity for a deferred resignation, they just decide to give you their 30 their sixty days.
And it's hard, we recognize it, there's a lot of burnout there. I mentioned in my opening statement the community the tribal community resilience program. This has been so key in helping some of our communities that are really struggling right now, whether it's flood hazard mitigation for Quinnahawk, shoreline protection for Shishmaref. I had just a tear jerker of a meeting yesterday visiting with the folks from Quig and Kipnook. What we're hearing, again, on these TCR programs, is that some of these awards are still frozen.
So what we're trying to get from the department is the current timeline and the process for reviewing and then releasing these awards. We wanna try to shorten this timeline, but we also need to understand when Interior is planning to issue an FY 2526 solicitation for the funding. So we need to have some kind of an update on Tribal Community Resilience Program if we can.
Speaker 3
Yes. And just a quick top line since you and I met, I checked on some of this and I think we've got another 17,000,000 of Alaska grants from this program that are getting ready to get out the door. So we're chipping away at them and again trying to make sure we get the dollars to these communities that are in need.
John Kennedy
Super, appreciate that. Thank you. So not only I thank you, the the recipients will as well. I mentioned all that the administration has put in place to help advance Alaska's resource potential, particularly moving forward with some of these oil leases, very excited about that, leaning in on natural gas. I've seen some references from the president, though, saying that, you know, Alaska is Alaska is is is like ready to fill up everybody.
Well, it takes a little bit of time. We're very excited that Pika oil is going to be coming in and and helping to refill that pipeline that is less than half full. But the But the reality is it takes a little bit of time. And in the meantime, we have communities that are really panicked right now. Everyone is facing high prices at the pump.
Very few feel it as acutely as an Alaska off roaded village that is 100% reliant on diesel powered generation. They get their diesel twice a year in the spring and in the fall. They're gonna be locked into these high prices for delivery in June. We're hearing that there may be shortages, and if there's shortages, there are no alternatives for your power. So if you're a little fishing community that needs to be able to produce ice to be able to receive fish from the fishermen, it doesn't happen.
And so know that I have been asked if there are if there are any areas or programs within BIA that might be able to be kind of a bridge loan to some of these communities that again are quite concerned to the point of literally sending a text, making a phone call, tribal leader to senators saying, help, we don't know what to do. So I just put that out on your radar. Again, just moving really quickly, I'm pleased with what you shared about the the local hire for gateway communities. Anything more that we can be doing to improve the local hiring process, including for Anilco local hires. I think you've got support from from folks on this committee.
Speaker 3
The proposed cuts in the operation of park service, park system, I think you've heard from members and all of us are watching carefully. We want to make sure that the staffing is adequate. It's good to know that we're gonna have more law enforcement within the Park Service, but I just need to know that I've got people out in the park who are keeping the bears at bay. I don't know if you're able to provide me an update on collecting a surcharge from international visitors is going and whether it's impacting entrance fee collections for the park and and what you might expect as far as that goes. Nobody I I don't think anybody has raised that issue here.
I I don't think they have during the committee but the again, as I stated earlier, this is being applied to some of our most visited flagship parks, the ones that have the highest percentage of international visitors. And the expectation is that we'd have a potentially significant increase in gate revenue from those visitors.
Speaker 3
It's only been in the, we're not in the busy season yet. It's not really the time that we have a lot of the international visitors come more in the summer season, as you know. But we've had it implemented and we've got some early results from some locations.
John Kennedy
We'll look for that. On another issue that everybody forgets about under your portfolio is our Insular Affairs Office, which plays a pretty key role. I've been getting an update on the situation with the super typhoon that hit Saipan and Tinian. My understanding is they're still without power. So I'm hoping that DOI is supporting FEMA and others in the response and recovery and any interagency coordination that's going on there.
I don't know if you have any updates that you wanna share with the committee on Yeah.
Speaker 3
Had a phone call yesterday with Bill Hague who leads Insular Affairs. He's the assistant secretary of the senate, you know, nominated candidate leading that organization. He was in America Samoa this week for Flag Day. It's their big annual celebration. Yeah.
So rather than returning home, he's flying to the Commonwealth Of Northern Marianas today. This storm was devastating. They're without power. They're without water. I mean, it was a 175 mile an hour winds, but the storm was not like a tornado.
It it was going like at two miles an hour. I mean, sat over the island with those sustained winds. So super devastating. We are the FEMA is there. The Department of War is there.
Insular Affairs arriving today, and we're coordinating. I had a meeting on Friday night with Chris Lando, the deputy secretary of state, who's got a part of his portfolio and the person that works for him that manages and leads secretary, the state department's relationship with our territories and the COFA nations in the Western Pacific. So, and I talked to Chris again last night at state to make sure that we're doing everything we can because obviously it's a like any one of our states or territories that goes through this kind of devastation. We have to make sure that we're there for them.
John Kennedy
Yeah, this is a tough one. The last question that I have before I turn to my colleague for his final here is regarding the interagency agreement that's been signed between DOI and the Department of Ed. Well, I understand the plan to transfer administration of most native education programs to DOI is still being formed. I've had many questions as an appropriator, as well as in my position as chair of the Indian Affairs Committee. And I am not seeing in your BIA or BIE budgets that you request any additional funding to support the administration of these programs.
In fact, your budget requests a 5,400,000 reduction in BIE education management, and this is the office that helps support interagency agreements. So I'm worried as to whether or not DOI has the resources necessary at this time to take on the administration of 26 additional programs without undue delays or in distribution of funds. So know that we've had a lot of incoming on this and we've been able to get very, very, very little information to be able to respond to those inquiries.
Speaker 3
Well, I'll take an action item that will connect on that. My understanding on this is it's just four programs. Four programs, 16 people and the funding was going to come with it. That's, we get very different perspectives Yeah, on the size
Speaker 3
Let's So let's see if we can sync up on that do that. But I think the one thing that I took as a compliment was that because of some of these programs are grant based, the Department of Education actually looked at the existing systems within BIA for making grants, for following all the rules for doing grants, tribulations said, you guys are fully equipped to do this already. We were trying to reinvent the wheel over here. We can plug these programs into you with less personnel with the existing IT you have. And I think that was the assessment on the four programs that came over that BIE was better suited to be able to manage and deliver those grants than Department of Ed was.
John Kennedy
Well, let's follow-up on that one. Yeah. Let me finally, and I apologize for taking more time, but to my colleague.
Jon Husted
Thank you very much, madam chair. There's a tremendous number of issues in your portfolio, mister secretary. In February, the BLM announced it revised resource management plan for Western Oregon and that BLM land covers 2,400,000 acres. It's Northwest Oregon, it's Southwest Oregon, it's Coastal Oregon, very different types of forests. And during the public scoping period, BLM didn't hold any public meetings or in person engagement, but now we'll come into the public comment period.
And during the public comment period, can you commit that the BLM will hold at least one in person public meeting in each BLM district? Yes. Thank you. I think that's an incredibly important to get the best understanding of very diverse, landscapes. Back in 2017, we passed a fire fix that was designed to try to end fire borrowing.
And fire borrowing is when we run out of funds and then the Forest Service has to shut down everything else it's doing in order to channel all their activity into fighting fires which is, you know, it's an emergency. You have to have to be done. That has worked pretty well. We haven't had fire borrowing for this last decade, but that's expiring. The wildlife reserve fund is expiring and I'm particularly concerned because last year our fire suppression cost 6.5 excuse me, $5,900,000,000 and it wasn't a particularly horrific year.
So now we have a period of drought, the Cascade Mountains have very little snowpack, We've had some spring rain that produces a lot of grass. It dries out very quickly. This year, according to the fire experts, they're going this could be a lot worse. And we don't have cushion left because we did I mean the cushion is now if you take 5,900,000,000 last year and right now we have 6.5, It doesn't going to take much of a more intense fire season to eat up those those funds. So can we work with you to re kind of amplify or put back in a new, maybe another ten year span on this wildfire reserve fund and try to make sure we don't return to fire borrowing?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yes. I I wanna, you know, compliment you and, the senator, the chairwoman, anybody that worked on the fire fix. When I was chairman of western governors, which included Oregon, the one thing that all the western governors could agree on was the need for the fire fix. So thank you for getting that done when you did, and and we'd be happy to work with you on getting that reauthorized.
Jon Husted
Thank you. Much appreciated and really actually concerned about running out of money this summer in this fiscal year. I'd like to follow-up with discussions about a potential supplemental to make sure that in this fire season, we don't actually end up in that that space while we're working to restore the wildfire fire reserve fund.
Speaker 3
Yes. And we're also be working with the states as I noted, we have we have in place our new chief of the wildland Fire Service. He's been making the rounds. If you haven't had a opportunity to meet with him, I would encourage that. Our our deputy secretary is also Kate McGregor has also been up on the hill meeting with members of congress to answer questions about this.
But we have put out a secretarial order about two weeks ago basically saying that we are gonna take any fire that occurs that we're under full suppression mode. I mean, we're not starting this spring with, oh, let's let's do a containment and do some fuel load burning. We to reserve our dollar resources and our human resources and our aviation resources for this big fire year. So we're just starting out the year and saying, if there's a fire, we're putting it out quickly, working with states and local to make sure that happens. We just can't get behind this year.
Jon Husted
Yes. Thank you. I no. I appreciate that that approach. And, boy, it just becomes such a big issue in our Western Western States as I know you you know well.
And speaking of wildfire management, in consultation with your staff, it's our understanding that interior affirms that moving the Forest Service Wildland Fire Management into the Department of Interior would take legislation. Can you confirm that that's your understanding as well?
Speaker 3
I'll defer to the solicitor's office on that because I haven't heard a final opinion one way or another on that.
Jon Husted
Okay. I'll follow-up on on on that and can you hold a dialogue with us after talking to the solicitor's office?
Jon Husted
The because wild land fire management is such a big deal to us, we're nervous about any reorganization that might undermine our effectiveness. And, of course, I'm sure you don't want us to be less effective either. So we just want to make sure that we're representing our states in the face of this risk and engaging in that conversation.
Speaker 3
Yeah. No. Happy to and of course our goal is to increase our effectiveness and then also increase our ability to fight fires, also increase our ability to manage our forests so that we don't have so many fires in the first place.
Jon Husted
And one of the things I've been immersed in is driving what is now a tenfold increase, more than a tenfold increase in forest management to thin trees, do prescribed burns, do mowing, and it's coming it's really helped us in a number of of fires, but the amount of acres that we can cover have been quite small in comparison to the number of federal acres. So we're really trying to concentrate that on areas near our towns. I'll never forget the Labor Day twenty twenty one fires in Oregon where six towns burned to the ground and other six were badly scorched. And seeing those towns, it looked like a war had had struck. Just complete reduced to ashes with maybe a cast iron bathtub here or maybe a metal staircase left where there was once an apartment building but nothing else but but but ash.
And see the refugees pouring into the fairgrounds, all of that. We just wanna do everything possible both in the front end for forest management, but then also in the firefighting to avoid those sorts of tragedies.
Speaker 3
Senator, thank you for your support on that and you've had to see that tragedy with your own eyes. But it's why, you know, part of the strategy we concentrate on the wildland urban interface that you that you're describing with those communities is those are the areas that we have to protect people and property. That's got to be a priority for us.
Jon Husted
Thank thank you. So it's sixteen years since Deepwater Horizon. And one of the things that came out of the bipartisan commission that looked into the causes found that there was a close culture between the regulators and the industry. And they recommended a separation between the role of collecting revenues and the responsibility to enforce safety. This leads me to a proposal in the budget to recombine BOEM's Bureau of Safety and Environment and Enforcement And concerned that we're kind of going back to a model that undermined kind of the oversight necessary to ensure safety.
I don't know if you'd like to comment on that, but I guess I just wanted to express concern about it seemed like there was significant wisdom in trying to make sure that the safety oversight doesn't get compromised by too close of relationship. And so I have a concern about that piece.
Speaker 3
Well, we we share and respect your concern and that's why that when it was broken up, it was actually broken into three organizations. It was BOEM, BESE and what was called ONRR, which is the Office of Natural Resource Revenue or Ocean Resource Revenue. And in this proposal, BOEM and BESE, which currently share offices and they go out, they inspect on the same platforms, they work with the same issues, they're following the same regulations. But we've kept the revenue portion separately with the organization abbreviated honor. So honor is not part of the Marine management proposal for unification, but the group that where we can make sure that we are best using our inspectors at the highest possible use to maintain the goals we have monthly inspections on drilling rigs.
We had a lot of work to do and those teams are feel they can do it better and more efficiently. But agree with you, sir, that the revenue has to be kept separately and in this proposal it is.
Jon Husted
Thank you. I'll take another look at that and follow-up with you. And then I wanted to express my concerns about the diminishment of investment in wildlife trafficking. Wildlife trafficking is often used as a way to fund terrorist organizations. And even if it wasn't used to fund terrorist organizations, but just for profit for whatever reason, the potential to, in a single generation, wipe out or deeply reduce the viable populations of key species around the planet.
That's been just something that like we all kind of carry as a responsibility, not any one nation, but of humanity in general to try to control that sort of depredation. And the operators are getting more sophisticated. They between helicopters and machine guns and bribery of local officials and the ability to communicate in in in ways with each other that give them more ability to to move and monitor. It's just becoming a more difficult undertaking. And so I'd I'd like to do encourage two things.
One is there the funds for this sort of international conservation funds are still sitting in the department as I understand it and have not gotten out of the door and I want to encourage them to get out the door and and encourage that as if we pass an appropriation bill that carries this program into the future, which I hope we will, that the department will basically not sit on the funds, but will implement the program in partnership with conservation agencies that come from many different nations trying to tackle this challenge.
Jon Husted
the funds out the door that you you have currently under the FY twenty six budget? And can you commit to getting the funds out the door if we provide funding for this in the f y twenty seven?
John Kennedy
Mister Merglis, mister secretary, thank you. You've given the committee a great deal of time this morning. I think you've heard that there's some follow-up, some exchanges that we will want to do with you and your team. But know that as chair, and I think I I can speak for the ranking member here, We look forward to working with you as we work to advance this very important appropriations subcommittee. The more information that you can provide us earlier is better because we're under a pretty tight schedule here, but I also realize you've got a lot on your plate as well and your team do as well.
But I appreciate that you have assembled good men and women that want to do right by our our nation's lands, by our indigenous people, and that we're we're all working together here. So I thank you for this. We will hold the committee record open for an additional week for QFRs, questions for the record to come from those who perhaps were not able to be here this morning. But again, thank you and appreciate your time here this morning. Good afternoon.
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