Committee on Women’s Rights and Gender Equality Ordinary meeting Structured dialogue w. Commissioner Lahbib
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FEMM European Parliament
Follow its sittingsHadja Lahbib
Let's say that very clearly.
But the road ahead is still long. No country has achieved full gender equality, nowhere in Europe, nowhere in the world. And two things are certain. We will never go backwards.
We will keep moving forward. And that is why your support on the roadmap for women's rights was so important. And if the road map was our promise, this strategy is our engine to make it happen. And this strategy, as you know, is built on very concrete actions, dirty actions across all areas of lives and all EU policies. It looks at the full picture because women face not one single barrier but many barriers, and it responds with targeted actions.
And allow me to repeat once again, men and boys must be part of the solution, and there should be more of them here today. I count only five or six of them. I hope next time there will be more. Fairer, more equal societies are good for them too, improving their health and their quality of life. And we are supporting this, for example, by encouraging more men to work in care and education, to take parental leave, and with flexible working arrangements.
Because equality at work starts with the choices we make at home. Honorable members, today, let me highlight a few priorities of this strategy. First, ending violence against women online and offline. One in three women in Europe experiences gender based violence, and every week, eighteen women are killed in the EU simply because they are women. This is unacceptable.
And that is why we are supporting member states to put into action our directive to combat violence against women and domestic violence. It will help put a stop to violence, strengthen protection, and improve support for victims. It also recognized that some women face higher risks. For example, women with disabilities and calls for tailored support, such as accessible helplines. We will also continue to promote a simple but essential principle.
Sex without consent is rape everywhere across the EU. Your commitment to this committee is crucial to this. Yeah. Yes. And we must also adapt our response to today's new threats.
Violence follows women online in messages, in threats, in images, in sexually explicit deepfakes designed to humiliate, and it does unspeakable harm. And.
that
Hadja Lahbib
is why we are enforcing the Digital Services Act and stepping up with a new action plan to fight cyberbullying. Online platforms are not neutral playgrounds. They shape behavior, and they must take responsibility. Our second priority is women's health. For too long, women have been treated according to male standards.
No more. I know this is a priority for your committee and that you are working on a report on gender inequality and health. So, thank you. Thank you very much for that. Women are underdiagnosed, for example, in heart disease.
Research still too often ignores sex differences, and women's pain is too often dismissed. These are not details. They are structural blind spots. And just imagine that women suffering in a hospital bed with the wrong diagnosis could be your wife, could be your mother, or your daughter. We are also launching a new initiative with the World Health Organization to build health care that actually reflects women's bodies and their lives.
We will invest in gender-sensitive research, improve diagnostics and treatments, and make sure health care reflects women's real needs, not outdated assumptions. We will also do more on sexual and reproductive health and rights in Europe and beyond. In February, we responded positively to the citizens' initiative, recognizing that unsafe abortion is a public health issue. This met your call for a positive reply. From now on, member states can use the European Social Fund Plus to support access to safe abortion.
Honorable members, tomorrow marks 5 years of war in Sudan. And you know that in every crisis, women and girls pay the highest price. Yesterday, I spoke with Rahaf, a young Sudanese refugee in Egypt. She's 18 and just finished high school with top marks. She's full of dreams and ambition, passionate about economy.
And maybe one day, she will lead the World Bank. Let's hope for this. And we will be proud of that because it will be thanks to our EU support. We must stand with every woman like Rahaf, especially in moments of crisis and conflict, where too often rape and gender-based violence are used as a weapon of war. And we are launching shield, sexual and reproductive health in emergencies, and life in dignity.
It will improve access to sexual and reproductive health services and support survivors of gender-based violence. Our third focus is economic power and competitiveness. Gender equality is not just about fairness. It's about prosperity. The gender pay gap in the EU is still 11%.
The pension gap is 25%. Women must be paid the same as men for the same work. No more excuses. We are working with member states and social partners to fully implement the pay transparency directive. We will also work with member states to tackle the causes of the gender pension gap.
The employment gap between women and men costs Europe 390,000,000,000 every year. That is a lost skill, lost innovation, lost growth, and lost competitiveness. It also leads to increased poverty for women at the end of their lives. We also need to combat the stereotypes that put women and men into typical jobs: women in care, men in technology. We need to break free of these chains once and for all.
We need women to be part of building the future, coding, and designing the technologies of tomorrow. To make this happen, we are launching an action plan on women in research, innovation, and start-up. Our goal is to make Europe the best place in the world for women in these fields by 2030. But none of this works if women don't feel safe at work. More than four in ten young women in the EU face sexual harassment at work.
As we prepare the Quality Jobs Act, we are working with social partners to strengthen prevention and accountability. And we need, of course, as you rightly said, dear Lina, robust funding in our next EU budget. Finally, we need more women in public and political life. Women are half of our population, but only one third of our national parliaments, and one in 3 senior ministers in the EU are women. That gap weakens in the democracies.
More women in politics means better decision making and stronger democracies, but too many women face threats, harassment, and intimidation, especially online. When women are pushed out, democracy is pushed back. And that is why we will present a recommendation on safety in politics, as announced in the European democracy shield. It will protect those who step forward to serve, like you, with special attention to women in politics. We are also addressing the toxic narratives and networks such as incels that draw young men into hatred and polarization, working with communities and civil society to promote dialogue instead.
Honorable members, last month, I presented on a new gender equality strategy at the seventeenth session of the commission on the status of women in New York, and I want to thank you for your resolution on access to justice for all women and girls and for sending a parliamentary presentation and delegation. Your engagement matters, and it makes a difference. The session took place in a very difficult political context. The backlash against gender equality is real, organized, funded, and growing, and against the UN system that supports it. For the first time, the adopted conclusions were put to a vote by the United States, breaking the long tradition of consensus.
We held the line, but the ground is shifting. This goes along with the US withdrawal from many UN and international organizations addressing women's rights, and it will have real consequences for millions of women and girls. So in our external action, we are renewing our commitment to gender equality as defenders of rights, as engines of progress, and as reliable donors. Honorable members, at the current pace, it will take at least 50 years to reach gender equality, half a century. That is a lifetime.
That means my granddaughter might be a grandmother by the time we get there. We simply cannot wait that long. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. We cannot wait that long time for quality. It's now, although, we are facing this backlash, as you were saying, we have to say clearly, Europe is a good place to live if you are a woman, but, also, there are a lot of inequalities within European women. We have seen, my voice, my choice, access to a safer, clear, legal abortion or many other aspects regarding where you are, the different national legislation, or your background, geographical, socioeconomic background.
There are a lot of differences among European women's that we really need to tackle as well. And, obviously, intersectionality is included in the strategy, and I'm sure we can work together for that. And now, I will give the floor to fund coordinators or the person that are represented as different political groups as coordinators today, for three minutes each. And as usual, we will start by EPP and Elizabetha Luca Esiesca. Please, the floor is yours for three minutes.
Elżbieta Katarzyna Łukacijewska
Thank you so much. Thank you, commissioner. I will use my mother tongue. Could you, thank you so much. Jean Cue Barto Jean Thank
You, chair. Thank you for introducing the strategy, I think, madam Commissioner. We're not just interested in the words, but also in the effects of the strategy. I agree with all the points, pay equality, access to abortion, etc. But looking at today's world, I'm rather dismayed because when it comes to the safety of women, we can see that in recent times, especially when we're looking at online violence, it's reached an unprecedented scale.
It used to be just a marginal phenomenon, but now it affects women all across the board. Deep fakes, the sharing of intimate pictures without consent, ruin people's reputations, and they push women out of public debate. We cannot allow a situation where the digital space becomes a free for all and a lawless space. But there are also, we've got to remember rural women because rights also have an aspect, a rural dimension, because those women have not got as much access to rights. It's much more difficult for them to fight against stereotypes, against violence.
They don't have the same kind of access as city women. But also, we've got to have a look at different areas in Europe. Very often, you've got restrictions depending on where you are. When you're talking about equality, you've got some women find themselves in difficulties when it comes to getting financing for their organizations depending on where they are, and this isn't a unique phenomenon. This is part of a growing trend. That's why we've got to keep focused on this, because this is something which affects the foundations of our community.
Thank you very much, madam commissioner, for everything that you're doing. But I've been here in the European Parliament for many years now, and I can see that we have a long way ahead of us. We've done a great deal. We've made a few steps forward, but we haven't yet reached the end of the road. Yesterday, I became a grandmother, and I also want my grandchildren to be able to live in a safe environment.
Thank you very much. So, I have a question, madam commissioner. What specific steps will the commission take to fight against cyberbullying, sexual bullying against women? Is what and what about act actions which will improve the lot of women living in rural areas? And what about women's organizations who are being subject to pressure from the authorities in certain areas.
But thanks to the activities of women, I think that it will be possible to achieve our goals in the end. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you very much, and congratulations from yesterday. That's such nice news. So, and now from Poland to Poland, from EPP to SND. So Johanna, Shering Wilgus, the floor is yours for three minutes.
Thank you.
Joanna Scheuring-Wielgus
Thank you, madam commissioner. In this world which we live in, it's true that the policies which we have are male policies which show male force. So I thank you for this strategy, and I thank you for the work which you've done in preparing the strategy. I would say I'm really pleased that, as far as health is concerned, this issue will be looked at from a female point of view. It's incredible that we're talking about women's health.
We would look at statistics which were based on male health and I'm glad that there has been a change to the definition of rape, and sex without consent is rape. And I'm happy that in two weeks' time, we will be voting on the report in Strasbourg. I'm a rapporteur for this report, and we will be urging the commission to have a new definition of rape. And I would like to ask if the commission intends to propose new legislation on the basis of this. We've requested this twice now, and in two weeks' time, we will be doing this for the third time, and I'm hoping that the time will be lucky.
And, finally, that definition will be in place legally. Another thing which is very important for me personally and that concerns these anti gender movements. I am glad that in this, I hope that in this new strategy, this is being addressed. I've been dealing with this for a couple of years now, and I understand the scale of the problem, and I hope that the commission will, in fact, undertake studies. But what will happen after that?
What will happen after the studies? What will be the future steps? Where will the commission go with the results of those studies? Now I think that we've got to iron out all inequalities, all of these fake news which the gender critical movements are spreading. We've got to have transparency, and there's a specific question I have for you.
Now, how will the commission ensure that this directive will be implemented properly? Because we do hear the criticism of many member states. Is the commission actually prepared for those criticisms and for that counter attack? It's a good thing that we're talking about here, but let's I hope that, it's a situation where men can flex their muscles in the world, but we can do our work and counter attack, and we can just ensure that we are a shining example to the rest of the world when it comes to equality. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. And now, we move to patriots.
Thank you.
Margarita de la Pisa Carrión
Madam Chair. Ladies and gentlemen, madam commissioner, this gender equality strategy and the previous ones, in theory, aim to achieve equality between men and women. However, the effect they've had on society hasn't been the desired effect. Women are facing more and more attacks on their dignity around Europe: forced marriage, FGM, and other problems. I would have liked to have seen these problems mentioned in the strategy, but they don't appear.
We've seen legislation such as the trans law in Spain that attacks women in a different way because they hold hostage our identity. They say that being a woman is just a decision that you make. It's not a constitutive fact. They also impose a way of being women on us that doesn't properly take account of, and in fact, denigrate things such as being a mother. It rejects our femininity.
We find ourselves in a constant confrontation. The gender strategy also addresses supposed setbacks in inequality that is mentioned a number of times. We'd like to see what indicators are being used to define this setback. How do we define a true setback? There's also a study that says that many women are less and less prioritizing a gender focus because it doesn't respond to their daily problems.
How does the commission interpret setbacks? Could it perhaps be reflecting a disconnection between the policies and actually women's genuine concerns? The strategy also mentions as a rep a source, the next wave report, a report that has a biased ideology that is antidemocratic, that deals with certain different entities simply because they're Christian and that are in favor of life and family. And it also outlines political parties such as my own, those elected by the citizens, and it attacks them simply because it disagrees with them. How can this be justified?
How does the commission justify using this report as a source? Reports with such a political bias. Indeed, these fight against Christian faith in a strategy that aims, or says that it aims, to uphold democracy and pluralism. I don't know whether you've read this report and whether you're aware of the evaluation that it makes of universities that have many graduates in Spain and that I think are doing actually very worthy work in terms of training people for the future of our society. And yet these are being labeled as anti-democratic and against human rights.
Thank you very much.
Elena Kountoura
Gracias. Thank you. ECR, there is the coordinator is not, if anyone wants to take the floor. No. We move to renew.
Valerie Devon, the floor is yours for three minutes.
Valérie Devaux
Yes. Thank you very much, madam chair. Thank you, madam commissioner, colleagues. At the outset, I'd like to hail the gender equality strategy. The priorities that you've outlined, the fight against violence, economic empowerment of women, and their participation in society all head in the right direction.
I would nonetheless like to stress three points. Firstly, on violence. I hail the legislative progress that's been made in support of the member states in its implementation. We see that girls are particularly exposed to online violence, with massive exposure through social networks. We need to strengthen protection, including by setting the question of a digital majority at the European level.
How does the commission plan to make specific progress on this point? Also, on my voice, my choice, the commission's response is important. It sends a strong signal to all of those people who have mobilized around this issue. It's a political commitment that now has to become a specific action. The question is also one of its continuity.
How can we guarantee that this commitment continues beyond 2027 and is enshrined in the next financial framework to ensure effective access to sexual and reproductive rights across the Union? Finally, on the consistency of our policies. We have this strategy on equality, and it includes a pact on care, and soon an update of the strategy on disabilities. The issue is better articulating the connections between the two. Does the Commission envision, for example, that the future care pact will recognize as care workers even further who are very often women, as well as their specific needs, in particular in terms of their support?
Thank you very much.
Elena Kountoura
Merci. And now move to the Greens. Melissa Camara, the floor is yours. Thank you.
Mélissa Camara
Very much, commissioner colleagues. Thank you very much for this dialogue on the commission's priorities in terms of gender equality for the years to come. I'd like to hail the strategy that aims to build on the previous gains that have been made and restates the union's commitment to gender equality, in particular through a cross-cutting and intersectional approach. In the strategy, we also see a number of important initiatives that we support. I'm thinking of the future care deal, and also the directive on violence, and reforms to reduce the economic gap between men and women.
At the same time, when we read the text, we get the impression that many actions are still around support, coordination, and implementation of pre-existing instruments, whether we're talking about salary equality, the fight against discrimination, or financing for gender equality policies. However, the context is a particular one. Today, in the context we're in, we need to have a more structured response. There are still inequalities, in particular in salaries, pensions, and access to rights. And at the same time, we're also facing some setbacks and a general backlash with attacks on the rights of women and minorities across Europe, and a polarizing environment that is increasing throughout our societies.
Given that, the question is also one of the tools that the union has to act in a more systemic fashion. How can we fight against discrimination? How can we guarantee that budgetary resources truly support equality? And how can we ensure that the text that we adopt produces real effects on the ground? And it's with that in mind that, Madam Commissioner, I'd like to put three questions to you, three specific questions.
The strategy is quite cautious around the follow-up mechanisms. Do you imagine setting more specific objectives? I'll resume. First question, then. Do you envisage setting more specific objectives and tools that will enable you to measure progress on equality?
Second question. The strategy stresses integrating equality into the European budget, but it remains rather general on this point. How does the commission plan to specifically reinforce gender budgeting in the next financial framework beyond the current follow-up tools? And finally, does the commission plan to complete this strategy through new initiatives and legislation, or will the action remain around implementing preexisting instruments? Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
The left, Elena Contura. Closure for three minutes.
Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you. I would like to thank the commissioner for her presentation of the new equality strategy 2026, 2030. The incorporation of women with disabilities, I think, is insufficient in this strategy because these women suffer more from poverty and unemployment. Only twenty percent of them are in full employment.
If we think also about women who aren't disabled, it is a much lower number. Many women suffer from disabilities, and they face discrimination at work, when looking for work, and also in services. And so what's missing here is a proper commitment to measures to ensure that these women don't face additional obstacles. The European Disability Forum recently gave a statement, and in that statement, it said that only general comments have been incorporated on this issue without really dealing with the specifics and thinking about specific means to ensure that women with disabilities are better integrated. There are member states where protection for these women isn't provided for, and that means that these women's dignity must be properly guaranteed.
We need greater support for women in this position. There's also a health issue. Women's health is also not adequately covered. There are many different taboos in this area. For period poverty, this is often a taboo, but it is important that women and girls have consistent access to hygiene products.
This is a problem, it's a fact, and it results in discrimination against women in education, in public services, and also at work. We also have issues around menopause. This is also not properly reflected in the report, but this has a great influence on women's bodies and also on their psychological well-being. It has an influence on their quality of life, and also on women's place at work. There is a lack of information in this area.
There is a lack of adequate support for women in the years of menopause. There is also a lack of support at work. We need a proper approach here. We need better access to the relevant services. And also, we have to deal with the lack of equality in research.
Additional measures are needed for women and girls with disabilities so that they have better access to health care, to education, and also to the labour market and to public life. Will this strategy be implemented in properly quantifiable measures? That's what's important for women's health. This will have to be the case across the whole of women's lives in terms of both the years when they have periods, and also the years of menopause. You yourself said in a speech that politics, unfortunately, has been devised by men and what that means is that not all of women's needs are adequately taken into account.
So what measures will you introduce in order to counter that?
Irmhild Boßdorf
Yeah. Yes. Thank you very much for the presentation of the gender equality strategy. Of course, we have many different comments on that. I'd like to begin with the subject of online violence.
This is a subject that is very present in Germany, and it's being pushed by Colleen Fernandez. And everything has been debunked as a strategy just to push this EU strategy. We're just talking about online violence against women. I also remember the hearing that we had in the firm committee on violence against women. And there, we on the right said that we welcome that, and then what was presented to us, a hearing on the subject of the manosphere, on the subject of Internet violence against women.
But what's much more important is the physical violence against women that happens across Europe every day. But that is played down as femicide, but what we're talking about is murders taking place within marriage where migrant men murder migrant women who are very often to be seen in Europe. We also experience mass attacks by migrants on non-migrant women. And in the meantime, even the official police statistics in Germany show that even migrant women are very much more often in the criminal statistics than nonmigrant women. We're also speaking about the inequality of pay between men and women, a superb subject.
I spoke about this last time. We're not talking about a gender pay gap. That doesn't exist. What we have is a mother pay gap. Mothers really are affected by the pay gap.
And that, above all, is the case for women who are around 30 years old. They earn between 70-80% less than men in the same age bracket. So I think we need to speak about this properly. It's about the mother pay gap and not the gender pay gap, because it doesn't exist. And then when it comes to this mother pay gap and when we look at this mother pay gap, we then inevitably see that when we are older, we don't have a gender pay gap.
We have a mother pay gap. And so I'd be very grateful if the European Commission would make sure that actually they're honest about this, and really address the disadvantages that we experience as mothers, and that those be addressed. We also discuss pay. It's always said that we need better involvement of women in the labor market and a massive buildup of childcare. We also don't agree.
We would have concepts about how women or families with children could really be guaranteed freedom so that they themselves can decide how to arrange their lives and how they can decide maybe the father might want to stay at home or the mother might want to stay at home. It can't just be a question of better involvement in the labour market, but rather it must be about the welfare of children and families. That should be the priority, and that might be something that we might want to think about, whether we might want to arrange benefits for those who raise children. Then in the concept, it also talks about culture policy and work policy. Of course, we are seeing this in Germany, in North Rhine, Westphalia, for example, where queer book packets are being put together for primary schools.
These book packets are being put together so children are forced to go to the theater performances where people are shown having sex. We think that this is not logical. And the last point on migrants, yes, this is a big problem. We have almost only migrants in our women's refuges. These issues only affect migrant women, and so we might want to think about how we create a solution.
Thank you very much.
Elena Kountoura
And now I would like to give back the floor to our commissioner. You have ten minutes, then we will have a second round of a yeah. Ten minutes. You will have, also another, possibility to answer to other members that would like to speak a very brief intervention for one minute each, but then we have an important list. So, please, the floor is yours.
Hadja Lahbib
If you could do it in 10 minutes, that will be great.
I'll try my best to do it in ten minutes. And.
I'm going to speak French, since each person spoke their language, so I will also switch to French. There were a lot of questions on violence, on online violence, physical violence as well, of course, but also on online violence. It's a reality. We've already addressed this through the Digital Services Act and the AI Act. They continue a dialogue with the online platforms.
We've already had one dialogue, what we call a regulatory dialogue with the platforms, online platforms, to strengthen the code of conduct that is already included in the Digital Services Act. Why? Well, because we are convinced that it is by getting the platforms on board and working with them, and also thinking about possible criminal prosecution, that we achieve the best results. I've already had a dialogue on a voluntary basis with the platforms that we organized together with the commissioner responsible for digital services. Also, and we shouldn't forget, have the directive against violence against women that criminalizes all forms of violence, including cyberviolence.
So all of any nonconsensual publication of intimate images, of manipulated images using AI, all cyber harassment and cyber bullying and online hatred can be prosecuted. We also have an action plan to combat online bullying, and that also recognizes the disproportionate effect that online violence has on women. Therefore, through this plan, we will also establish a plan that will allow the member states, because we have to remember, it's always the responsibility of the member states to address these issues. It will allow member states to put in place legislation that is adapted to online violence. In addition, many of you put questions on what are you doing on health care, what are you doing on access to financing and through banks, for example, what are you doing around maternity and so on?
Intersectionality and mainstreaming are key in this area. In each decision that we take, in each piece of legislation, in each directive, we ensure every time that equality is present throughout all of these decisions. And that is why, as you know, since the beginning of this new term, we've ensured that each commissioner in each cabinet that we have someone who is responsible for equality issues, so that we know how we are considering equality in agriculture, in the labor market, in transport, in health care, in the economy, and so on and so forth, competitiveness, industry, research. It's really essential. So I'll respond in an overall way because I've only got ten minutes.
We really are trying to ensure that this intersectionality is present in all of these different areas, including for persons with disabilities. There was a very important question on the new definition of the concept of rape. And the idea of consent. As you know, we didn't have this during the previous mandate in the directive on violence against women. But since then, there has been an evolution because of, or perhaps thanks to, the PELICO trial in France.
So we're also trying to establish a mapping of all of the legislation that we've got since 2022, 2023. We've seen a change in mentality. There have been new court cases that have come up in the member states as well. So after that mapping of the legislation, we will have a better overview of what is being done and where, which member state that might be against the idea of integrating the idea of consent, perhaps might now be in favor of that idea. And after this mapping, we will see what we can do with the new legislation.
I'll speed up a bit. I'm being told to hurry up. There's also the pay transparency directive. For the time being, we have 4 workshops here. These are to help the Member States implement the directive.
And it is going well. With the majority of the 17 Member states have already adopted within their national legislation measures that aimed at salary transparency. With our gender equality institute, we're also currently setting up a toolkit on how to evaluate work in a neutral way. This was published on March 26, and on April 24, we will have a last workshop with social partners. So I know that many of you are concerned to ensure or concerned about potential setbacks or postponement in the implementation of this directive, but that's not what's happening.
We've also helped the member states financially. There are 8 projects that are being supported in different countries. And we'll also publish a new appeal for new projects to support those member states that might have difficulties with transposing the directive on salary transparency. It's really necessary that we have men and women earning the same pay for the same work. This is written in our treaties.
And as you know, there's still an 11% salary gap for the same work, which ultimately, later on, when we retire, when we end our working life, leads to a 25% inequality in pensions. So it leads to a lot of poverty as well for women once they retire. There was also the question on the multi-annual financial framework. Of course, any strategy, any legislation needs to be implemented and needs a budget. And we have ensured through this intersectionality that is also taken into account.
As you put the question, what's the mainstreaming of budgeting in terms of equality? We've developed a tracking methodology, a methodology that aims to monitor the way in which we are spending the euro in the EU's budget, and we will provide guidelines at the end of this year so that we can be sure that the next MFF is even more aligned along gender equality lines in the way in which we spend the EU's budget. So another important thing is that, as you I'm sure you know, we're going to increase the budget earmarked for everything to do with defense of equality and combating online and physical violence. We also want to support democratic participation through the Serve program. We will increase this to €3,600,000,000.
So through this Serve program, there'll also be the Agora EU program that we will have for the next MFF. Are we going to have new legislation? No. I don't think so. Except perhaps if the mapping on rape legislation leads us to new legislation, because simply we already have a lot of legislation.
We've got 5 directives that need to be implemented. I've mentioned them in my opening speech. It's already a lot. And so I think we have to concentrate on the implementation of the directives that we already have. The best directive is the one that's implemented, and it's the one that's implemented with the conviction of the member states that it is going to provide a benefit, that is going to strengthen our democracies and our social cohesion.
So we're going to concentrate, first and foremost, on the implementation of those directives. I didn't answer all of the questions. I do apologize. It's already I've already had ten minutes and fifteen seconds, but I'll try and answer the other questions later on. Thank you very much, says the chair.
Elena Kountoura
There'll be more time later. I'll give the floor now to the other members.
I'm going to start by Willie Gallagher, Renew. Please approach yours just for one minute, please.
Billy Kelleher
Thank you very much. I need to start by reiterating my support for the inclusion of the gender equality strategy, of the commitment to the high standards of physical and mental health. This statement makes a clear commitment to addressing the inequalities in health. There is a need to address the root causes of inequality. In this regard, I welcome the strategy's focus on improving the inequalities in clinical trials, Commissioner.
However, aside from representation, trials, and research, the lack of sex disaggregated data is another reason for the lack of gender sensitive data in research which perpetuates the use of treatments and medicines which are not appropriate for or tailored to women. And you referenced that in your opening comments, Commissioner. So I do believe we need to really focus on when we're engaging in clinical trials, when we're supporting clinical trials, and underpinning them with regulation.
Elena Kountoura
Could you please slow down a bit? I mean, the interpreters. I know I asked you for one minute, but if you could.
two minutes in
Billy Kelleher
Look. Commissioner, I suppose to shorten my interjection, will the commission, in considering measures to mandate sex disaggregated data in research outcomes. In other words, when we are legislating or regulating for clinical trials, there is an obligation on sex disaggregated data in the research. That was, I think, would be fundamental to underpinning further innovation and therapies and medicines for women's health care. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you very much. And now to another man, Paulo Domachimento Cabral. Please, the floor is yours from EPP from one.
Paulo do Nascimento Cabral
Thank you, Chair and dear Commissioner. Thank you for your speech today. Indeed, I would like also to congratulate the commission for cooperating key elements in this gender equality strategy that reflects our shared commitment of the women's rights. Today, and you referred several numbers regarding the pay gap, pension gap, etcetera, and I have to say that indeed this is a question of competitiveness, not only a matter of equal treatment from women and men, but also competitiveness. And nowadays, this is a huge mantra that we are obliged to work on it.
At the same time, gender-based violence is rising, particularly online, and you mentioned it. 98% of deepfakes are sexual content, and 99% target women. And this is really an attack on our democracy because it has consequences. One third of women leave social media after being attacked, and around 40 percent of women withdraw from public life and politics after online abuse. We need to bet on education because social media is replacing the role of schools in the education of our youngsters and spreads hate faster than we can teach respect.
And I have one question for you, commissioner. To tackle digital violence, you believe that we should consider mandatory identification in digital profiles to address online abuse? Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. And since we were complaining all the time not having many men, so Marco Velizgazza, FRONNA, S and D, Croatia, Prozio for Women.
Marko Vešligaj
Chair. I'll speak in Croatian. Porcelana Povereinte. Commissioner,
thank you for coming to our meeting. I've been following your work since the beginning of this term, and I'm aware that you're facing numerous challenges. I'm also aware that your task in the commission is not easy. I would just like to comment very briefly on your answers from the questions from the first round. I'm sorry that the strategy did not meet our ambitions, but we said it ourselves.
We cannot expect new legislation. I'm saying this because the European Parliament is very ambitious, and we expected the Commission to be equally ambitious. But I do understand your restrictions. I have only two questions for you. A new European care deal has been announced.
Could you tell us more about this? And is the commission planning some funds from the multi-annual financial framework? And the second question is about the initiative My Voice, My Choice. In which phase is the answer of the commission, and what can we expect?
Please. One minute.
Maria Walsh
Thank you, chair, and thank you, commissioner, for joining us again today. I'd like to take the opportunity to raise with you the findings of a recent investigation which uncovered a Telegram group of nearly 1,000 men from around the world sharing step-by-step instructions on how to drug and rape their partners. In addition to this, last week, AI forensics reports that Telegram is a hub for AI generated content depicting nonconsensual abuse material. You mentioned mapping of rape legislation. You mentioned tackling online gender-based violence.
And to save time, I wanted to ask you how do we align these longer term plans with the urgency of what is happening right now, waiting until 2027 to update legal mapping on rape or delaying action on platform accountability. Ultimately, we will have more and more victims of unprotected sex in the meantime. We know it's happening, and we know it's becoming more sinister, widespread, and much more easily facilitated online. In addition to that, my question is also we should not be moving, we should be moving faster towards a clear legislation, and I hope you would rely on MEPs in this house to put pressure on member states. Because if we can't deliver in here and they're not delivering there, ultimately, we have more victims.
Thank you very much.
Heléne Fritzon
Thank you. Thank you so much, Commissioner, for your introduction about women's rights, resources, and representation. It's really important. We welcome the gender equality strategy, and especially the implementation. It's really important that we have this.
But we can see the backlash, and we see these anti-gender narratives, and they are not only present, they are also very active in debates in several member states. So I can see that we have in this strategy, it contains a few new legislative initiatives and appears to rely heavily on the assumption that existing frameworks and enforcement alone are enough. So I'm a little bit worried when you said that you are not planning any new legislation. So my question is, isn't it necessary to be well prepared just because of this backlash? And my other question was when you mentioned the new jobs.
You mentioned quality jobs, but be aware because one in three are women. They have no job at all. They have no salary. They have no power over their own life. So my question is how can we, the commission, work for more women to have a job?
Because it's about growth, and we need to secure that it's also fair for women to have an own job. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Now from Patriots, one minute. Mieke Andreas, please, the floor is yours. Thank you. I will post my questions in Dutch.
Andreas Glück
Thank you, madam commissioner.
Yes, we've got all these. At the same time, we've got this we can read that the EU is in favor of women's rights. But why is there a gap? While the commissioner had got absolutely no problem in issuing visas to the butcher of Tehran. So why are you waiving the moral custom compass at other people when doing this kind of thing?
And also you're at the vulnerability of migrant women from the intersectional perspective, but then we've got the elephant in the room. But we're importing a culture where women are subject to violence, because that's simply a cultural norm. So how could you guarantee the safety and security of women in Europe when women have got to be subject to the consequences of mass migration. You're saying that Europe is a good place for women. It used to be the case, but it's not going to be the case anymore.
And that's why I would say, have you really weighed up the consequences of immigration as a big element in this debate?
Carolina Morace
Thank you. Now the new strategy is a very important point. I think that it's very positive what you've done. But I don't think that all aspects have been dealt with the same strength, and I think that what will happen is that we'll be very ambitious on paper, but in reality it will be hard to actually translate this into facts, and I noticed that the Commission is very much in favour of my voice my choice, but there are funds which can already be used to help a woman to access services in another member state. But without clear mechanisms and without dedicated resources, there is a risk that this is just a theoretical right, and it's only accessible to those people who've got the access to the information and the means to be able to do this. So how does the commission intend to go from the recommendations to real and concise measures, even when it comes to resources, to guarantee that women's rights are truly equal across the whole of the European Union?
Thank.
Giusi Princi
Thank you, madam chair. So we'll need about 200 years to have real to have true gender equality between boys and girls, but this is not something that we can accept. Sex equality is built before school. It's then it starts in school, and then that's where you have the expectations. And then stereotypes have a considerable impact.
This strategy does recognize the problem, but also there is imbalance. And then especially in certain sectors, and despite initiatives. Now, as a former teacher, I really believe that school is the first stop for lasting change, and we've got to take this into account. So I would like to ask the commissioner, how does the commissioner intend to take steps to influence the choices of schoolgoers to be able to make a real impact in the future?
Maria Noichl
Thank you very much. I've got three points. I want to talk a little bit about consent. Of course, this is something which we wanted to make clear. Yes.
It means yes, and that's it. But this covers a lot of other areas as well. Of course, a picture, for example, should be uploaded to the Internet only with consent. For example, photos of her children. A parent should not be able to upload photos of their children.
They have to be able to give consent. So consent should be the building block for our society. We have to provide explicit consent from the outset, not provide a consent after the fact. My second point is that there have been new elections in Hungary. It is in one of the governments in the EU, that's the only one where there were no women in the cabinet.
Would like you, commissioner, to make contact with the new government, the new prime minister of Hungary, and raise this issue. We cannot have a country in Europe which is governed without a single woman at the table. I know we talked in New York as well, and the events which took place in March. I would ask you, commissioner, to ensure that Europe has an invitation to the table in the future. If it is no longer possible to protect women's rights in the US, then the next meeting has to be held in Europe because we stand for women's rights.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Elisabeth Grossmann
Thank you. Now the answers in the first round led me to another, thought about online violence and cyber harassment. Have you considered the question of AI and the omnibus package? There was a majority in the European Parliament to tackle deep fakes and ban these across the EU. Now have you considered the fact that you wanted to push this responsibility back to the member states?
This would mean there will be no EU legislation in this area. Is that what your approach is? Should it be a member state's competence, or should we have appropriate reforms at an EU level? My next question on budget, we need, as we negotiate the new MFF, an ambitious change of budget approach, but we also need concrete resources allocated to these new policies. And many women's organizations are very concerned about the steps back in this area.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other member who would like to take the floor? So, mister Carteiser, please, froze you for one minute.
Fernand Kartheiser
Thank you. I'm speaking German. Thank.
You, I'll be speaking German as well because I wanted to raise an issue that happened in Germany recently. There is a rule that German men between 18 and 45 have to ask permission from the German Defense Ministry to leave the country for more than three months. Now this is a restriction of the freedom of movement, and I would have hoped that the European Commission will be able to say whether this leads to an unequal treatment of men and women and, at the same time, a restriction of the freedom of movement for European citizens. However, they have not said anything. You may well say that military service is a national competence, but this does have repercussions on EU level.
And, von der Leyen and, madam, Callas, seem to stress that their competencies and the commission's competencies on any occasion. I find it very unusual that they have not taken a stance on this particular issue. I would appreciate hearing your views on it.
Elena Kountoura
So, thank you. So there are no members that would like to telephone for the first time. If they have already taken the floor, I will not give the floor again. I would like to turn the floor to, I have many questions, but I will concentrate, Justine, in two issues. For the first one, it has been already asked.
But since I'm also the rapport of the tracking methodology from this committee on the budget, we have a few hearings here, and there are a few associations that has released now the Nikosha declaration just a few days ago, among them, the gender budgeting platform, European gender budgeting network, and others showing, that the change that the commission is proposing from gender equality as objective, specifically as air marking funds, that is how it is working since 1995, to gender equality as a principle that in principle, it is good for mainstreaming. It is not it will not be, good enough in order to maintain gender mainstreaming in the budget. And if we take the indicators that are included in the proposal of the MFF and the gender equality strategy principles, there is not a link between them. So I would like to know how we can improve that because there is no NAWA link, and we are really worried that this new approach to gender mainstreaming in the MFF will not really warrant gender mainstreaming and advancing on gender equality in the European Union. We are really very worried, commissioner, so I would like to ask for it.
And the other thing I would like to ask is regarding health. It's been already mentioned, mental health, and specifically on clinical trials and agenda, and research. And, again, here, I'm the shuttle operator for the new FP 10 on each committee from my group, from the S and D. Now I'm asking as a member of s and d. And there, again, the Horizon Europe, the program that is going on, has gender equality on it.
And for the next one, against the commission, it is proposing to substitute that, many of these issues included in just gender conditionality, sorry, for the tracking methodology. So, again, we will be losing the advances we have made in one program that was ahead of other programs on that. And just to mention, because new, I'm I presented the amendments on April 9, so last week. I have asked for a new mission on women's health, because it will be also a way to really put all the resources on research, but not only beyond research on women's health. So I hope we can be supportive of this initiative because I think we deserve it, and it will be also very good for advancing on women's right and gender equality.
So, thank you. And now, you have the floor for 5 minutes. But since we have time, I will give you now the ten minutes, so you will have time to answer to all of you.
Hadja Lahbib
First of all, on the question of MFF, I want to ensure you that we are taking further the gender budgeting, and we can stay in touch for the details when we move forward. And in particular, when it comes to operationalize gender mainstreaming under the different management modes. And I have to say that each member state shall provide a gender equality assessment for each activity in their plans, and each activity must be assigned to an appropriate gender score, and technical guidance on how to assign also the scores will be provided by the commission at the regional and national level. And the proposed performance regulation provided a single gender expenditure tracking methodology for most programs, including national and regional programs, to be applied through a list of intervention fields, and this methodology will align with OECD indications. And, moreover, the proposed performance regulation foresees that gender equality shall be included as a criterion for the evaluation of proposals, where feasible and appropriate.
And we will also have evaluation panels to be sure that gender is really mainstreaming in all the budget. So just to reassure you. On health, first, disaggregated data is really essential. I totally agree. And it will be a key issue for AGE, the studies that we are going to lead.
And as you know, for the first time, the new strategy includes a section entirely dedicated to women's health. And we all know that women are affected by a range of gender-specific barriers to accessing health care and suffer also from a lack of gender-sensitive medical research. And we have a specific attention not only for women with disabilities, but also for rural women, for LGBTIQ plus community. And the commission also will launch a new initiative with the World Health Organization to explore ways to improve the quality and accessibility of women's health care. And we will continue also to mainstream gender in health research and provide targeted funding on women's health issues such as endometriosis, polycystic ovary syndrome, all these specific, yes, women's issues.
And the commission will also fund a study on the economic and social benefits of closing the women's health gap related to certain conditions like menopause, to answer your question. And when it comes to my voice, interest, many of you ask me the question, where are we now? You know that following the commission decision we adopted on the 26th February, it is now up to member states to implement the initiative if they wish to do so. So indeed, it's on a voluntary basis because we have to respect the treaties. It's as simple as that.
Abortion is a national competence. So member states now have the possibility to allocate resources assigned to the ESF+. You know that 10 member states have already shown support and interest in the commission's positive reply to the European Citizens Initiative, and I replied to them. I sent them a letter. I stressed the availability of my services to help guide them in making use of ESF Plus funding to implement the objectives of My Voice, My Choice.
Hadja Lahbib
Switching to French now. Many of you, and I understand where you're coming from, this is part of your core business in the parliament, have expressed your frustration. You there haven't been new directives or new legislation adopted or to be adopted over the next few months. Now it is possible, of course, but I really believe that your job now is to convince member states to lobby member states to ensure that the directives, the ambitious directives, revolutionary directives, which were adopted under the previous term are fully implemented. And the proposal that we made, my voice, my choice, well, I mean, really, the ball is in the member states' court.
Is in the member states. Court. So, as I've said, we are available. We are here to help you, to support you, to find the money to look at how to distribute the money to help women in vulnerable situations so that they have access to legal and safe abortions, but now it's up to them.
As I've said, we are available. We are here to help you, to support you, to find the money, to look at how to distribute the money, to help women in vulnerable situations so that they have access to legal and safe abortions. But now it's up to them, and the member states will only act if you apply pressure now. So perhaps this is not really part of your core work, but it's still important. I've done this work myself.
And the member states will only act if you apply pressure now. So perhaps this is not really part of your core work, but it's still important. I've done this work myself. I've met member states. I've had meetings with France's presidency of the AG seven in March.
I've met member states. I've had meetings with France as the presidency of the EG seven. In March, we had an initial meeting where I invited members of G7, including France, in the chair. I wanted to ensure that they set a good example to help women who are in difficult situations, to ensure they have access to these funds. But something needs to happen now.
We had an initial meeting where I invited members of the G7, including France, in the chair. I wanted to ensure that they set a good example to help women who are in difficult situations, to ensure they have access to these funds.
But something needs to happen now. The ball is in their court, and I hope I can count on you to do this lobbying work. Now some of you asked why hasn't the CSW been moved to Europe because of the difficult situation in the US? Well, why not? I mean, that doesn't fall to me.
The ball is in their court, and I hope I can count on you to do this lobbying work. Now some of you asked why hasn't the CSW been moved to Europe, because it is because of the difficult situation in the US. Well, why not? I mean, that doesn't fall to me as a European commissioner, but perhaps the parliament, the commission, member states, altogether, could push forward this idea and see there is a desire to move the CSW, but that's a bigger discussion that doesn't depend on me. Now, Wager was a female minister, a very powerful minister for justice in a Hungarian government, and was indeed the wife of the future prime minister.
As a European commissioner, but perhaps the parliament, the commission, member states altogether, we could push forward this idea and see if there is a desire to move the CSW, but that's a bigger discussion that doesn't depend on me.
Now was a female minister, a very powerful minister for justice in a Hungarian government, and was indeed the wife of the future prime minister. So I hope he will be open to appointing more women to the government.
So I hope he will be open to appointing more women to the government. I also agree that the notion of consent begins at school with lessons in school, and we do have a plan which is designed to educate children on the notion of consent from a very early age. I think we don't want to step on the toes of member states here, but let me be clear. I do understand your frustration when you say, what exactly is happening? It's all well and good to have these, great ideas, but what are you actually doing?
I also agree that the notion of consent begins in school. With lessons in school. And we do have a plan which is designed to educate children on the notion of consent from a very early age.
And. I think we don't want to step on the toes of member states here, but let me be clear. I do understand your frustration when you say what exactly is happening? It's all well and good to have these great ideas, but what are you actually doing? I think we find ourselves in a win win situation, but also a will will situation.
I think we find ourselves in a win win situation, but also a will situation. The member states have to be willing to act. We can go as far as we wish with the directives, with our advice, support, to work. But when we do this, it's because we have the proof, we have the studies, we have the methodology, we know how to support civil society and increase how to increase equality, but it is good for us all. And if member states refuse to act, and I think I'm answering your question here, madam de la Pisa, we're not here for taking a top-down approach, imposing new rules, traditions, cultures.
The member states have to be willing to act. We can go as far as we wish with the directives, with our advice, guidelines, support to work. But when we do this, it's because we have the proof, we have the studies, we have the methodology. We know how to support civil society and how to increase equality, but it is good for us all.
And if member states refuse to act, and I think that I'm answering your question here, Madame de la Pisa. We're not here taking a top-down approach, imposing new rules, traditions, cultures. We fully respect the traditions of each member states, the will of each member states. We're not trying to impose equality on you. We can't impose equality.
We fully respect the traditions of each member states and the will of each member states. We're not trying to impose equality on you. We can't impose equality. We live according to the principles of equality because we think it is good for men and women, because, well, you may think that having more children is important. Now this is important for Italy, which has serious demographic issues and a falling population.
We live according to the principles of equality because we think it is good for men and women, because, well, you may think that having more children is important. Now this is important for Italy, which has serious demographic issues and a falling population. But in order to do this, we have to ensure women have access to creche places to accommodate. All of this is important, all of this has to be set up to allow women to grow, to have access to jobs, to not worry about losing their jobs. So that's why we set up these different approaches, different policies, and legislation.
But in order to do this, we have to ensure women have access to creche places to accommodation. All of this is important, all of this has to be set up to allow women to grow, to have access to jobs, to not worry about losing their jobs. So that's why we set up these different approaches, different policies, and legislation. It's called intersectionality. We have to work across the board on health, the labor market, and agriculture.
It's called intersectionality. We have to work across the board on health, education, the labor market, agriculture, all of these sectors need funding in order to ensure that all of our citizens can live a full and healthy life.
All of these sectors need funding in order to ensure that all of our citizens can live a full and healthy life.
One. Minute. One minute. So this is, so I think that I will conclude. I'm sorry, but I think we have a longer debate because it's so important, and we are always missing time.
One minute.
Hadja Lahbib
One minute. One minute. So seven. This is, so I think, that I will conclude. I'm sorry, but I think we should have a longer debate because it's so important, and we don't.
And I think that this debate clearly shows your patience and your commitment to making Europe fairer and more equal for all women and girls. So, thank you. Your support is essential.
We are always missing time. And I think that this debate clearly shows your patience and your commitment to making Europe fairer and more equal for all women and girls. So, thank you. Your support is essential, and let me end maybe with a vision of Europe that I would like to share with you. Let's imagine a woman.
And let me end maybe with a vision. Of Europe that I would like to share with you. Let's imagine a woman. Her name is Rita. But she could also be Joanna.
Her name is Rita, but she could also be Joanna, Magdalena, or Nyla. Rita leaves work late at night, and she feels safe on her way back home. And at the end of the month, she gets her paycheck, and she knows it is the same as the man sitting next to her. And one day, she feels pain. She goes to the hospital, and she's taken seriously.
Magdalena, or Nyla. Rita lives work late at night, and she feels safe on her way. Back home. And at the end of the month, she gets her paycheck, and she knows it is the same as the man. Sitting next to her.
And one day, she feels pain. She goes to the hospital, and she's taken seriously. She gets the right diagnosis. And at home, her husband does his part in sharing this care.
She gets the right diagnosis. And at home, her husband does his part, sharing this care, fifty fifty. And at work, she is respected, not harassed. She grows into a leader. And when she goes online or in public, her voice is heard without threats, without fear.
Fifty. And at work, she is respected, not harassed. She grows into a leader, and when she goes online or in public, her voice is heard without threats. Without fear, and this is what equality looks like in real life, and that is what we want for all daughters and for your granddaughters and for our sons and our grandsons. And please let make it happen.
And this is what equality looks like in real life. And that is what we want for all daughters, and for your granddaughters, and for our sons and our grandsons. And please, let’s make it happen. Thank you.
Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
We will work very hard to have many RITAS. In Europe and the future. You have seen a lot of interest among members. You mentioned yourself that we still need 50 years to reach gender equality, but this is not counting the backlash we are seeing every day also here in parliament.
Thank you. Thank you very much, commissioner. We will work very hard to have many RITAS in Europe and in the future. As you have seen, there is a lot of interest among our members. You mentioned yourself that we still need 50 years to reach gender equality, but this is not counting the backlash we are seeing every day also here in parliament.
So why we are really anxious on seeing how implementation, how the commission is pushing for that implementation, and also how can we move on on our legislative agenda, in order to improve women's rights and gender equality.
So why we are really anxious on seeing how implementation, how the commission is pushing for that implementation, and also how can we move on on our legislative agenda, in order to improve women's rights and gender equality. So, yes, we take your point, and we will invite you as soon as you come here to continue this discussion because I think we are on the same boat, and we really want to move on the network.
So yes, we take your point, and we will invite you as soon as you come here to continue this discussion because I think we are on the same boat. We won't relate to move on on gender.
Elena Kountoura
Yeah. But still, I have to say that we are the most segregated committee in the whole European Parliament. But we are really following the rules of the parliament regarding gender equality, and we have two male vice presidents, while other committees with more women than men in this committee are not following those rules.
Elena Kountoura
Yeah. But it's, but still, we, I have to say that we are the most segregated committee in the whole European Parliament, but we are really following the rules of the Parliament regarding gender equality, and we have two male vice presidents. While other committees with more women than men in this committee are not following that rule. They find a justification for being exceptions. So, we are very good on gender equality even if it is the more unequal or the most segregated committee in parliament.
They find a justification for being an exception. So we are very good on gender equality, even if it is the more unequal, or the most segregated committee in parliament. So, thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you.
So, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
So. Hello. Again. And now we move to another important point in today's discussion. Is point six European Union-wide guidelines on gender-neutral job evaluation and classification in the context of article four in the EU pay transparency directive 2023/970 under this article four of the patrons' privacy we were discussing before.
I'm glad to see the commitment and the support of the commissioner on the commission as well on backing this pay transparency strategy that we believe is so important in order to close the gender pay gap, and it was one of the main advances we did in the previous term. So as I was saying, under article four of the pay transparency, the commission may update union-wide guidelines related to gender-neutral job evaluation and classification systems in consultation with the European Institute for Gender Equality, AG.
And the updated guidelines were launched on 26 March this year, intended as a practical step-by-step toolkit. The guidelines support all sizes of organizations in evaluating and classifying jobs.
Based on objective and gender neutral criteria including skills, responsibility, effort, and working conditions. Thanks to the update, the standardization of measurability of these factors is strength. From the fund committee's perspective, the new guidelines are strategically important instruments for advancing gender equality policy across the European Union.
FAM, our committee, has consistently pushed to close the gender pay gap and strengthen equal pay enforcement. Now the update helps translate these political commitments into measurable practice. As you know, we have been dealing in the past week, we also with an annual report again on closing pay gap and pension gap. So we still working on this topic, and we will continue.
Unfortunately, we have to continue to work with this topic because the gap is already there, and it is very different among member states, and it is also increasing over the life cycle of women, especially big during the pension age that in some cases arrive up to 40%.
So for this discussion, I'm glad to invite, or we have invited here first Mrs. Pinucha Contino, head of the gender equality unit, unit d three, the Just, the European Commission, that will start the presentation with this update guidelines.
I will give the floor for seven minutes. But before, I would also like to present our second speaker that will be here with us. Sorry. Online. This is Mrs. Elena Amshevska. Who is research officer, gender mainstreaming AGet, that will talk also for seven minutes.
So we'll start with Missus Cantina. So please, hang on one second.
Yeah.
Elena Kountoura
The commissioner left. Things happen. These things happen all the time. So now, yes, the floor is yours for 7 minutes. So, please, thank you.
Pinuccia Contino
Thank you very much, dear Miss Chair.
Thank you for inviting me to this meeting of the farm committee. Centering on the EU-wide guidelines for gender-neutral job evaluation and classification in the context of article four of the EU pay transparency directive.
And, first of all, I would really like to express how deeply honored I feel for me. This is the first time. In the Pharm Committee. So, it's really an achievement in my career. Because I've always been extremely motivated and committed to gender equality and to advancing gender equality in whatever I was doing.
And now I've come to the right place. The best place in Europe, and possibly in the world. So thank you very much. Today, we are going to have a deep dive into something that we hope will help transposing in the best possible way our pay transparency directive.
And as you know, the principle of equal pay for women and men for the same work or work of equal value has been enshrined in our treaty already since '57. So next year, it will celebrate its seventieth anniversary.
However, in spite of this very long track record, its application remains a challenge because this right, which is treaty based, has been, of course, more or less transposed in the past through national legislation.
However, all the evaluations we have been doing and carrying out have shown that this enforcement, I would say, this spontaneous enforcement has been largely inefficient, making the right to equal pay a theoretical right.
So the pay transparency directive that was adopted in 2023 is a game changer for tackling more effectively the gender pay gap through equal pay. The latest data coming from EuroStat show the gender pay gap still at 11%.
In the European Union. Now the directive empowers workers to claim their rights to equal pay. It does so by giving them access to the information they need to assess whether their pay complies with equal pay principle. This is the aim of the right to information, which is one of the pillars of the directive. The second pillar of the directive is the pay reporting obligations, which are action by companies to address the systemic undervaluation of women's work and structural discrimination in pay.
To be also underlying that this second pillar is very well nuanced and proportionate to the wide dimensions and the capacities of the companies.
So, as Mrs. Galves was saying, transparency is recognized as a strategic lever for improving business performance, innovation, and competitiveness. Because pay transparency enhances talent attraction and retention, improves job satisfaction and performance of workers, due to positive workplace culture, improved trust between workers, employers, and investors.
Now, naturally, when we think about this, it seems obvious. Right? We all like to be in a place where it is clear that men and women get the same salary for equal work or work of equal value. We also have studies that confirm this.
Pay scale reports, for example, that employees in a very transparent organization are 65% less likely to leave their job compared to those who work in very opaque ones. Employees in these opaque organizations are 183% more likely to leave their job than those thriving in very transparent ones.
We could give you more figures, but I think what is really important is that pay transparency is not limited to the same jobs. Actually, the directive also applies to work of equal value. And meaning that this is also about work that is different in nature or that appears to be different, but in fact, is worth the same.
This in principle already exists as a legal obligation, but its application, including in the context of collective agreements, was never scrutinized and checked. In practice, pay structures may still reflect gender stereotypes and social perceptions about the value of typical female or male occupations and end up being discriminatory.
The commission really remains committed to the fact of implementation of the directive in accordance with established timeline. We know this is so important for our society in Europe. The directive granted member states a transposition period of three years, which is actually one year longer than usual. The deadline, as we know, is 06/07/2026, and we are not idle. We are providing support for member states and stakeholders to implement the directive.
We held already four transposition workshops with member states covering all the directives' provision. This way, we have really given the best possible support to the national administration and social partners to implement the directive and to facilitate the exchange of best practices existing at national level.
On 24th April 2026, which is Friday next week, we will hold a workshop for social partners. This way, we aim to build the capacity of social partners. We will present also with AGE the toolkit that is going to be presented in more details by Elena after me, and other good practice to promote equal paying collective bargaining. And to further facilitate the implementation of the directive, the commission has also made funding available through the 2024 and 2026 serve gender equality course.
Projects are already ongoing in several member states to support the development of practical methodologies and digital tools at national level to assist employers with pay reporting through capacity building and training.
And the latest call from the server project is still on. It is addressed to social partners to comply with the directive, and the deadline is April 28. So we are supporting employers' gender-neutral job evaluation and classification because we know that it's challenging. So we know it's not easy, but it's feasible. The directive clarifies that work of equal value must be assessed through four criteria, which are based on case law.
Skills, efforts, responsibilities, and working conditions. The assessment can be done. Through gender neutral job evaluation, and that's exactly the purpose of the step by step toolkit on gender neutral job evaluation that we developed together with AGE. This toolkit is tailored to employers of varying size to facilitate the task and provides explanatory materials to support compliance with the principle of equal pay by all those who are addressed by the directive.
So I would say that now Missus Anchevska, who is the expert on the toolkit, may continue with more specific presentation.
Elena Kountoura
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. And indeed, now we'll like to welcome missus Anshewska, that I was saying before, will join us online. Thank you.
Thank you very much for being here with us. Thank you very much for the job. The work you are doing from AGE that we really support very much, as you know, here from the fund committee.
Lina Gálvez
And I would like to give you the floor for 7 minutes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, members of the farm committee.
Elena Anshevska
Thank you so much for this opportunity to provide an overview of the updated EU-wide guidelines and gender-neutral job evaluation and classification. Indeed, it's a pleasure to join you today. If we can go on the next slide, First, we will start with a brief overview in terms of how we have developed the toolkit. So to update the guidelines, and develop the step-by-step toolkit on gender neutral job evaluation and classification, we explored the best available resources that were available out there. We looked into practices in countries that are leading the way in the process.
And this included several member states such as Spain, Belgium, Finland, and Sweden. But we also looked beyond the EU, and we analyzed countries such as the UK, Iceland, New Zealand, Norway, where gender neutral job evaluation is well established. What we did is to collect and analyze more than 30 resources on gender neutral job evaluation and classification, and we gathered our evidence both through research, and we also conducted more than 50 interviews where we consulted EU level social partners, national stakeholders, which included both experts and employers themselves, because we wanted to make sure that the toolkit reflects real world challenges and needs. Then, in the next stage, we consulted a draft toolkit with EU national and international stakeholders. And also tested it with employers.
The result that we have today is a comprehensive, user-friendly toolkit that provides flexible guidance, adaptable to organizations of all sizes and sectors. On the next slide, we will be able to see who the toolkit is designed for.
In brief, the toolkit is designed for everyone who is involved in negotiating. Excuse me. Could you speak a bit slower? Oh yes. Sure. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Elena Anshevska
So the toolkit is designed for everyone who is involved in shaping, negotiating, implementing, and overseeing job evaluation and classification. It creates a shared language and a shared methodology which helps all the actors involved in the process move in the same direction and ensure equal pay for work of equal value between women and men. Primary users are, of course, employers, and this includes both private entities, and also public institutions across all sectors. A key characteristic of the toolkit is that it works for organizations of any size.
This includes very small organizations with less than 10 workers, but it can also be used by large employers with hundreds and thousands of staff. It's basically designed to meet organizations where they are in the process, and it's useful both for those who are completely new to the process and also for those who already have a system in place and want to refine it and make sure that it's gender neutral.
On the next slide, we will be able to see what the toolkit contains. So the essence of the toolkit is eight practical tools designed for employers. First, two zero, this tool helps organizations recognize and prevent gender bias, and this is key. This is the core tool for the process. And then tools one to seven guide employers step by step throughout the whole job evaluation and classification process. From setting up the basis to evaluating jobs, and then developing a gender neutral pay structure.
The toolkit also includes two dedicated tools. One is for trade unions, and another is for workers. Both are designed to support social dialogue because these tools help to engage constructively with employers, ask direct questions, and understand how jobs are valued and paid. And this is key for building trust and for transparency.
A core element of this toolkit is the factor and sub-factor plan. This plan defines the four main criteria: skills, responsibility, effort, and working conditions, and then it breaks them down into sub-factors and levels. And this is not only helpful for consistency, but it also supports making sure that the process is easier to follow.
The toolkit also provides practical templates which support implementation. There are case studies that show how fictional organizations use the tools in practice. There are video tutorials that guide you throughout the whole process. And there are also supporting Excel files.
Excuse me. Again, if you could slow down a bit, that would be great. Thank, and they are also supporting Excel files. That helps to simplify the scoring, ensure consistent calculations, and reduce the burden. And this is important for the smaller organizations.
On the next slide, we will see that the toolkit recognizes that organizations do not have the same complexity, capacity, and resources. So this is why the job evaluation tools are tailored to the organizational size and context.
In essence, there are three different pi pathways, which are designed to keep the process manageable and effective for everyone. And the three pathways are, you can see them on the slide. The first one is for microorganisms. With less than 10 workers. Then, we have a second pathway for small and medium sized organizations, from 10 to up to 249 workers, but it's mostly suitable for small organizations with up to 15 roles and limited HR capacity.
And finally, there is a pathway for large organizations with more than 250 workers. And this is the most comprehensive approach. It relies on analytical point factor method. And, it's the most comprehensive and the most robust approach to gender neutral job evaluation and classification.
The key message is that the toolkit helps employers to choose the pathway that fits their reality while still keeping the evaluation gender neutral, and relying on the core four factors.
Skills, effort, responsibility, and working conditions. And on the next slide, we will be able to see the two formats that are available. There is a full PDF, a comprehensive document with everything users need, from detailed guidance, all the tools, all the templates, and the materials. And there is also, in addition to the PDF, a web-based version. There is an online version available on the IES website, which is a simpler and a more accessible version.
On the next slide, we will also see what other resources we have developed. So there is a policy brief available. We developed it together with Eurofound. It highlights the benefits of gender-neutral job evaluation.
First and foremost, for employers, but also for workers and for social partners, there is a fact sheet that is available. It summarizes the toolkit. And finally, the webinar. We hosted the webinar on March 26 when we launched the updated guidelines with the aim to bring the toolkit closer to users, and show its practical application, and the recording is also available online. So all of these resources are available online.
They're free for use. And we hope they will be useful and helpful in translating the principle of equal pay between women and men into day to day practice. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. There are people coming here. And now we'd like to pass on the floor to the members that are acting as coordinator in principle for two minutes and a half each.
So I start by Maria Walsh from the EPP. So the floor is yours, Maria.
Maria Walsh
Thank you, chair, and thank you both for sharing such knowledge and in-depth of your work on the development of EU wide print guidelines under article four of pay transparency. The guidelines presented here today are essential to strengthening enforcement of the principle of equal pay for equal work.
I was one of the rapporteurs, the shadow rapporteur, I should say, on pay transparency last Monday. For the EPP group, I strongly support the objective of pay transparency and, of course, gender neutral jobs evaluation.
It's quite frustrating that we haven't seating in practice, to be honest with you, across member states. And I'm very worried that news from some member states are looking to challenge the implementation of this directive. And I think, in particular, Sweden and my own country, Ireland, who are looking at a phased approach to the directive because they don't have the necessary resources or toolkits available. And as said, very deeply concerning considering three years have passed since the directive was approved. And this directive is incredibly important, and it's not a nice to have. It's a need to have.
And is required to strengthen the effectiveness of the equal pay principle that has been in place for decades. And if we don't fix it now, we'll never fix it, is my greatest fear.
So I'd ask you both how the commission and AIGA will make sure these guidelines actually help the member states that are falling behind. And, again, my own. I don't like to point fingers when, my own country is not doing its best to deliver this. While also keeping the rules consistent across the EU and avoiding different approaches in different countries, because we'll end up having an imbalance, which is what we have now.
I'm gifting back a little bit of timeshare, but thank you very much.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you very much from Esnir. Marianne Wind, you like to take the floor for two and a half minutes? Thank you very much.
I have a question.
Marianne Vind
What countries have not started this work? The implementation has to take place by the summer, very soon. That's my first question. And my second question, this tool looks incredibly promising and fantastic.
Will it be able to solve the problems we have? Because many people are told at their job that their pay is based on their competence, that's based on their skills locally.
And all leaders will be biased if they don't have sufficient knowledge. Many leaders and managers out there are not trained. They know enough about management, but they may have a bias since they were small, they were taught automatically to think that men are worth more than women, boys are worth more than girls. So it can be very hard for managers to start thinking differently.
So this idea that our pay is based on our skills and competencies, will we solve that problem with this proposal? Thank you.
Thank you. You.
Carry on from Patriots.
Two minutes and a half.
Thank you, madam chair.
Margarita de la Pisa Carrión
Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests, we all agree that the on equal work for equal pay, but this directive is on pay transparency. It's not about salary equality. The idea is that behind pay transparency, we'll achieve salary equality.
But we think that won't happen. And the implementation is going to be damaging. Because we think it's going to disincentivize employment because of red tape and legal uncertainty. Think this will be the case for men and women.
Your colleague said that it should be applied not only for equal posts but also for posts of equal value. We all know that some vacancies are more difficult to fill than others.
For other reasons, that might be because of where a job is based. Or it might be because you need to draw in new talent. Have to negotiate. So how do we incentivize work? We can think that this might be discrimination if there's incentivization. But there's also the issue of salary equality and remuneration.
So we need, so there might be a single policy. But that won't take account of labor and responsibility. Not all sectors have the same needs, and not all jobs. So it's logical that room remuneration be differentiated.
And it shouldn't ever be differentiated or shouldn't always be differentiated because discrimination. When it the guidelines aim to strike the balance between evaluation and the relevant social knowledge and dealing with care work as well.
So to avoid that this system creates too much burden for businesses, in particular for small businesses. SMEs, in practice, how do we distinguish between different salaries based on discrimination and those that rather respond to other factors within the market and different sectors? Thank you.
Lina Gálvez
Margherita. Carolina Morache. From the left. You have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Carolina Morace
We. Are against discrimination, and discrimination is always because of men. It comes to pay. It's always in their favor. Thank you very much for this presentation.
These guidelines are a very useful instrument. To guarantee the better implementation of the pay transparency directive, because we know that it's not only transparency that's a problem, but how the value of work is assessed.
There are areas that lots of women work in, and those areas are always undervalued. I fear that if the guidelines remain too general or too flexible, then we will have 27 different approaches to the issue, and then that won't solve the problem.
That's why I have a question. How does the commission intend to guarantee that these guidelines are going to be applied in a comparable way in the member states? How can we ensure that we avoid different interpretations that then evaluate women's work in and undervalue it.
Maria Noichl
I've listened to what's being said by both speakers, it's important that with the guidelines that we have, we can evaluate work within a company, within a sector, within a group of workers. And we take that as our focus.
There's something else that we need, and I think this was missing somewhat. We also need the proper evaluation of work in those areas that are dominated by women, such as care work, and that's why we need a way of looking that looks across sectors.
So how will how are different things going to be compared? We paying two identical jobs the same way. So apples with apples is one thing, but comparing apples to pears is quite a different one. So if we're comparing work in the childcare sector with work in a different sector, then that might be somewhat more difficult. So that means we have to have this in a sector system, but also a system that works across different sectors.
So I'd be interested to hear from both speakers how they would address that. Thank you.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. And now I would like to ask myself first to thank you again for the way you are doing, but I would like to insist on the line both Maria Noych was highlighted and also Carolina Morache.
She says that the problem we have sometimes is that we are receiving very different wages depending on the sector we are in. And we know that feminized sectors, sectors which are mainly composed by women, wages are lower because everything women do is undervalued. I mean, maybe because many of the activities were done previously free at home, not valued, not recognized, not paid for. And, obviously, when they pass on to the labor market, they do also in an undervalued way. So, the horizontal segregation, it is a real problem.
Beyond or beyond or backing this unequal pay. So this directive or these guidelines, sorry, are comparing equal pay within the same companies or same sectors. So it is also possible, or are you thinking to move on and to compare also across sectors.
So jobs have the same value. I mean, I know value and price are not the same. And it is, we normally use it as similar because we think that the value of something since we live in a market economy is the price we pay for. But we know it is not the case.
So how can we move beyond these guidelines that are, comparing within the same companies and within the same sector, which is already very important. Which is already great. But how can we move on.
Across sectors. So, thank you. And now, would like to give back the floor to you for three minutes each, but still we have a bit more time if you need it.
Thank you.
Pinuccia Contino
Thank you very much also for the interest, commitment, passion, and all the very fundamental questions you have all raised. And, of course, I will share with you the state of the situation, possibilities for the future. At the commission, we don't have the magic wand. So we are doing our best. With your help, with the help of AGE, of the other institutions, and all stakeholders, to advance on this. And I'm pretty sure that even if we don't have all the solutions now, together, we are going to make everything better.
And I tell you this because, of course, as the commissioner was concluding, her intervention just before we are all dreaming. About a totally equal, gender equal society where really we as women could shine just as we are and valued and considered as highly as it is fair. And this is, obviously, not necessarily the situation today, even though we are probably in the place in the world, in the European Union, where the situation for women is the best currently.
So I would say, I will simply give you the specific answers I can tell you. And indicate also that this directive is not the only instrument we already have. To fight against the gender pay and pension gap, for example.
Several of you have made reference to that. This has to be taken together. With the other directives we have. The directive on work life balance, the directive on women on board, all the bulk of type directives, the body directives that we already have that are very advanced and that together can bring this societal change.
Because you were right when you said that this directive alone cannot solve all the problems linked to the gender pay gap. That's for sure. Because it is transparency.
Instrument. Transparency will help change in society both for the gender pay gap, but not only for the gender pay gap and it will not solve all the gender pay gap, but it will also help make clear, for example, that there are entire sectors which are undervalued.
As you were saying, Miss Chair, you're totally right. And why this? Because, actually, those skills that are the most important in care jobs are empathy, capacity to connect with the other person, are those which are very often dismissed as soft skills and undervalued because they don't necessarily bring immediately money or returns on investment, but they bring huge return on investments for the society. And this instrument, this toolkit, is one of the ways that will help bring more clearly awareness about this. And for those stakeholders who will use it very consciously to make this clear, it will help us continue and reinforce the conversation.
On the value of skills in jobs, for example. And the other array of initiatives and proposals that we have presented with the gender equality strategy 2026, 2030, that we have discussed earlier with the commissioner. Aims exactly to that, to complete this legal and operational toolbox to make gender equality a reality, a total reality in the EU. So, and again, for this specific legal instrument, we at the commission, together with AGE, and with their support, we are really doing our utmost.
We are doing all that we can to help member states, and it's not only the workshop transposition seminars, but it's also the daily discussions and exchanges, clarifications that we have between us and the national administrations that are working on this.
I heard that you are worried that some member states may fall behind, may be at the same level as the others. So I can tell you that on our side, we are helping them all. We have our first milestone on June 7. After that, of course, we will review the situation in every member state.
I can give you already some figures. We know that 14 are well-advanced. What happens with the others? Well, they will need to tell us. Where they are, what they're doing, what their plans are. And we will be discussing together to see how best to support them. We still have funds that we can unlock in the serve.
Or possibly also we will see for the new MFF what can be done. So there are a lot of different kinds of tools that we can use. And, I'm not afraid that with our directive, we would worsen the situation. We will increase awareness about where the gaps are. Where the problems are, and maybe in some sectors or in some specific enterprises, it will not be a gender pay gap.
It will be another issue. But this will become very clear, because it will be transparent. And the other thing is that we cannot oblige. If we look at the terms of the directive, many things are possible, are options, like the gender neutral job evaluation and classification.
So, of course, we could have taken another way, another direction, but especially those who worked for getting to this result. You know how difficult the negotiations were. So we got the best we could.
And it is our firm intention as a commission to do our best to serve Europe in implementing this directive. The best possible way.
Elena Kountoura
Thank you. Thank you very much. And now miss Anshewska, please. The floor is yours for answers, and don't go very fast. Otherwise, our interpreters will start to show me the slowdown.
Elena Anshevska
Thank you so much. I will do my best to speak more slowly. Thank you for the questions and also for the consistent support throughout this whole process. What's important to mention here is that the toolkit is a voluntary resource. And establishes a shared understanding, a shared language when it comes to gender-neutral job evaluation and classification across the EU.
It's one resource. Developed to support in this process. It helps organizations to meet the requirements of the pay transparency directive, but it's important to know that it's not legally binding, and it does not replace national systems. What it is intended to do is to be practical, flexible, and usable with internal resources that organizations already have. So employers are free to adapt and combine the elements available in the toolkit in ways that best suit their context.
As long as they ensure that the equal pay principle is respected, and that pay structures are based on gender-neutral and objective criteria. What is also useful to note is that the toolkit
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