Committee on Women’s Rights and Gender Equality Ordinary meeting

11:16 - 12:45

Sirpa Pietikäinen

And about the most debated part of the equal value, there's a lot of misunderstanding but there's a lot of tools as you know about how to measure and for example in Finland we made the first proposals as soon as 83.

Sorry to say it has not yet been implemented, but anyway, the models are there. So there's plenty of resources where to draw upon. And that's why the Parliament highlighted that the EIGE should be very strongly, the European Institute for Gender Equality should be strongly involved on gathering the models, best practices, and statistics, and then mapping what is the proceedings in different member states. Because what you don't see and what you don't know, you can't actually really impose later on. Okay, then I would have two questions.

You mentioned that 13 member states have taken the transposition measures. Do you have any figures how many member states struggle hard to get it on place? So what is the amount of those and what kind of supporting actions actually the Parliament could take to support the process positively? Thank you.

12:45 - 16:57

Lina Gálvez

Thank you. And now for the S&D, it's going to be me. I've been asked to do so. So thank you very much for being here, for our group to move on in such a directive with a long-standing demand. As you know, as my colleague Silvia Pidicane has said, this is enshrined in our treaties, equal pay for women and men, but it's far away from being a reality.

In fact, normally we take hourly wage gap, but if we take income gap or even yearly gap or long-life, labor long-life gap, it's even bigger. And when we arrive to pension gap, it's even bigger. So this is something very important because it's linked with the lack of autonomy of women to take our own decisions, to live our own life as we want to live. And as it has been said, this directive is very important on providing information we were lacking. We have not enough information.

And I think also, and we think also very much on raising awareness, not only social and collective awareness, but also individual one. In many occasions, there were people, women that did not know her colleague was earning more than her being in the same position. So this is an extremely important piece of legislation we are very proud we managed to move on. And my question will be specifically which are these member states? I know for my own member state, Spain.

Spain did have, Spain did not complete the total transposition, but we have our own law on pay transparency that is even previous to the directive. And then we have a retribution register. We have a mechanism to value job position and then the value of jobs. So we have moved on. And then it was a public consultation open for the transposition that ended in May.

Let's hope now we have enough support in Parliament to complete the transposition. But I would like to know which member states and where the reluctance is coming from.

It is mainly coming from from businesses. It is because they think it is more bureaucracy. But I always like to to say that obviously democracy normally brings some some bureaucras some bureaucracy and what we are talking about is precisely about that, about improving our democracy and at the end also our competitiveness because if we are paid equally, there are more incentive we stay in labor market, we are more productive, it's what we need. So I think it is an essential piece of legislation for us women, for gender equality but also for really supporting European values and also European competitiveness. Thank you for myself and now I don't see anyone from Patriots, anyone from ECR, anyone from Renew.

So Benedetta Scuderi from Greens, the floor is yours.

16:57 - 19:45

Benedetta Scuderi

Thank you so much, I will speak in Italian. Sappiamo, è noto che un uomo impiegato in un'azienda, impiegato che guadagna 2000 euro, ci sarà una donna che con lo stesso impiego guadagnerà in media 1750 euro. Stesse mansioni, stesso impiego, stesso lavoro, stessa azienda, stesso tutto. L'unica differenza è che è donna. Si guadagna di meno in quanto donne.

E il punto è che noi ci siamo chiesti quando abbiamo fatto questa direttiva il perché, come sia possibile nell'Unione Europea dal 1957 che riconosciamo la parità di retribuzione, nel 2026 siamo ancora a una media di 11% in meno per le donne, dato che aumenta tantissimo in alcuni paesi come l'Italia da dove vengo io o in alcuni settori soprattutto quelli meno retribuiti, quindi è ancora più grave. Come sia possibile, la risposta è probabilmente perché si può, perché non si sa, perché non c'è trasparenza, perché non si conosce, perché non c'è un'azione collettiva. E questo era il motivo alla base della direttiva sulla trasparenza. Abbiamo necessità di garantire la trasparenza delle retribuzioni in modo da poter avere un'effettiva azione collettiva da parte delle lavoratrici e dei lavoratori ma anche da parte degli Stati membri. Ed è il motivo per cui abbiamo proposto la direttiva.

Ma se questa direttiva di cui siamo molto fiere non viene implementata, se questa direttiva è stata implementata come ci dite voi soltanto da tre Stati membri su 27 a due settimane dalla scadenza, e allora è carta straccia. Allora non riusciremo mai a raggiungere gli obiettivi che ci proponiamo giustamente come legislatore europeo. E per questo motivo che io ho tre domande. Uno sull'implementazione, quindi cosa pensa di fare la Commissione per richiedere effettivamente agli Stati che ancora non hanno trasportato la direttiva di farlo immediatamente prima della scadenza o quantomeno subito dopo. L'altra cosa è sappiamo che la trasparenza non basta e quindi se ci sono delle valutazioni da parte della Commissione per verificare che gli ispettorati e tutti gli organi di controllo negli Stati membri abbiano i mezzi per poter controllare e per poter prendere delle azioni per garantire sia la trasparenza che la veridicità dei dati che poi una parità salariale.

E la terza domanda è sulla valutazione, quindi quando avremo più dati perché la direttiva come vogliamo sarà implementata da tutti gli Stati membri quanto prima, se c'è una valutazione da parte della Commissione di verificare la capacità e l'efficacia della direttiva. Grazie mille.

19:45 - 19:51

Lina Gálvez

Grazie. Elena Kountoura, the floor is yours.

19:51 - 22:03

Elena Kountoura

Ευχαριστώ πολύ κυρία Πρόεδρε, θα μιλήσω ελληνικά. Η οδηγία για τη μισθολογική διαφάνεια ήταν το πρώτο βήμα. Αποτελεί ένα πολύ σημαντικό εργαλείο, όμως στην πράξη τελικά δεν εφαρμόζεται με αποτέλεσμα να παραμένει το απαράδεκτο μισθολογικό χάσμα μεταξύ ανδρών γυναικών για εργασία ίσης αξίας στους μισθούς που όμως συμπαρασύρουνε και τις συντάξεις. Η μεταφορά της οδηγίας στο εθνικό δίκαιο έχει καθυστερήσει με ευθύνη των κρατών μελών, με εξαίρεση τη Σλοβακία, την Ιταλία, τη Λιθουανία και τη Μάλτα, όλα τα υπόλοιπα κράτη μέλη την έχουνε εφαρμόσει μερικώς και κάποια όπως η πατρίδα μου έχασε τις προθεσμίες αλλά έχει ξεκινήσει τη διαδικασία. Αυτή η καθυστέρηση έχει υψηλό κόστος για εκατομμύρια εργαζόμενες γυναίκες σύμφωνα με τα τελευταία στοιχεία της Eurostat, οι γυναίκες στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση αμείβονται κατά μέσο όρο με 11% λιγότερο σε σχέση από τους άνδρες, προσοχή πάντα για εργασία ίσης αξίας.

Έχω επισημάνει αρκετές φορές ότι η Επιτροπή πρέπει να εξασφαλίσει πως η οδηγία θα εφαρμοστεί άμεσα και αποτελεσματικά στα κράτη μέλη με ενισχυμένους μηχανισμούς ελέγχου και λογοδοσίας. Η Επίτροπος Ισότητας Χέλενα Ντάλι έχει δηλώσει ότι τα κράτη που μεταφέρουν καθυστερημένα την οδηγία ενδέχεται να αντιμετωπίσουν διαδικασίες επί παραβάσει. Στο πλαίσιο λοιπόν αυτό θα ήθελα να σας ρωτήσω πώς σκοπεύετε να αντιμετωπίσετε το γεγονός ότι η συντριπτική πλειοψηφία των κρατών μελών παραβιάζουν το ευρωπαϊκό δίκαιο και δεν έχουν μεταφέρει την οδηγία στο εθνικό τους δίκαιο; Σκοπεύετε να ανακοινώσετε νέες νομοθετικές πρωτοβουλίες όπως για παράδειγμα για την ίση αντιμετώπιση των γυναικών όσον αφορά τις υποχρεώσεις φροντίδας και την εξάλειψη του φαινομένου συγκέντρωσής τους σε χαμηλότερα αμειβόμενους κλάδους; Σας ευχαριστώ.

22:03 - 22:16

Lina Gálvez

Thank you. And now there are still one member that would like to take the floor, I give the floor to her. Rosa Estaràs, please.

22:16 - 25:28

Rosa Estaràs Ferragut

Sí, muchas gracias, presidenta. Gracias a la Comisión. Los que estábamos la pasada legislatura y tuvimos trabajo en la aprobación de la directiva con 427 votos a favor, 79 en contra y 76 abstenciones, fue un gran logro la directiva de transparencia salarial y nos dieron tres años a los Estados miembros para la transposición. La aprobamos en mayo del 23 y la transposición era en 7 de junio del 26. Entonces, los Estados miembros se lo tendrían que tomar en serio y la Comisión tendría que hacer una supervisión exhaustiva porque no ha sido una directiva de un año o dos de transposición, ha sido de tres.

Según mi información, corríjame si me equivoco, Lituania, Malta y Eslovaquia han presentado la directiva a tiempo, Italia casi, y casi todos han presentado un borrador menos Alemania, Suecia y España. En el caso de España, mi país es reincidente en trasponer tarde y mal porque ya la directiva de conciliación a España le costó casi 7 millones de euros de multa que tuvieron con un procedimiento de infracción que tuvieron que llevar al Tribunal de Justicia de la Unión Europea. Lo digo porque no puede ser que en Europa haya mujeres que estén más protegidas unas que otras en función de que algunos Estados traspongan y otros no.

Mi país estamos en un periodo de consulta pública pero han tenido tres años. Pasa es que en mi país están muy enredados en otros temas que no son los que preocupan a los ciudadanos. Pero sí que es muy importante que esta directiva vea la luz porque al final un 16% de brecha salarial en mi país, un 11 de media en la Unión Europea y dispara en el resto de países hace que no todas las mujeres europeas tengan los mismos derechos. Esta directiva protege a las mujeres en el sentido de que no le pueden pedir qué cobraba, en el sentido que le tienen que decir exactamente el salario cuando va a la entrevista de trabajo, en el sentido de que si hay una desviación superior al 5% se tiene que corregir, la carga de la prueba está en el empleador no en la empleada, los organismos de igualdad tienen un papel muy activo y además las sanciones tienen que ser disuasorias. Pero para poder en marcha todo este entramado y que realmente se rompa la brecha salarial y así romperemos también la brecha de pensiones, la Comisión tiene que tomar cartas en el asunto y por esto mi pregunta es un poco en la línea qué hacemos con los países porque estamos a día 23 de junio.

Han pasado más de 15 días y ¿qué hacemos? ¿Han hecho ustedes talleres, han hecho ustedes orientaciones, han hecho vídeos explicativos, han hecho publicaciones, pero ahora qué hacemos? Los Estados miembros parece que van muy rezagados, especialmente mi país que no ha presentado ni el borrador con Alemania y con Suecia. Incluso mi información es que Suecia está también súper rezagada. ¿Qué hacemos para que nos tomemos en serio aquello que aprobamos y tenga sentido lo que estamos trabajando en la Unión Europea?

Muchas gracias.

25:28 - 25:33

Lina Gálvez

Thank you and now yes you have the floor back and so please the floor is yours.

25:33 - 36:42

Pinuccia Contino

Thank you very much. Thank you for the interest, the really important questions and also for all the passion that I hear in what what you say and because I can tell you we definitely share that passion. And that's why maybe I would like to present a bit also the broader broader picture starting with the fact that unfortunately this is not the only the only directive that is being transposed relatively late and with difficulties by Member States. So what we can also see from the side of the Commission as general observation is that clearly it it is for several reasons sometimes because there are impending elections, sometimes because of human resources restrictions, sometimes because of lots of internal discussions in many many areas unfortunately nowadays even directives that have had a three years time of transposition we can see that not only or not all the Member State and sometimes not even the majority of Member State manage to get it transposed by the date of transposition. Now, if we come to the presentation of what happens next, we can see that in any case there is a certain limited flexibility when it comes to transpositions because technically speaking until there is a finalisation of the analysis of the transposition measures by the Commission that may take a decision to start infringements for non-communication of measures, technically speaking the Member State still is on time.

So, this I think is quite important to know. So, for example, this already started on the very day of the transposition because it was a Sunday, so actually technically the limit for that first moment of the transposition was 8th of June. Just to tell you, there are these flexibilities which are present. That doesn't mean that if a state doesn't even have a draft law this is good, not at all. And we are in constant discussions with all these member states and we are pushing them, we are talking about this in every meeting.

We just had a meeting of the advisory committee on gender equality where we have also explained this and pushed all the representatives of the member states to do their best to increase the pace. What we notice, again in general, is that once we see that there is activity, finally everybody gets there. Now, I know that this is not ideal. However, I'm convinced that if we work all together in cooperation and as our first MEP who spoke and asked what can we do on our side, we also hope that you will help pushing a lot your member states to do their best because it's really important that what has been decided by the co-legislator is also then put into practice. And I really hope that you will be also very successful in pushing your member states to do their best.

Now you were asking the names of the member states who transposed and I can already give good news because among the member states you have mentioned, you didn't mention Italy that has communicated transposition. And all this is public, you can check it, it's updated daily on EUR-Lex. You can check the member states who are still transposing and I can tell you that in the last couple of weeks we have invited several member states at technical level to communicate whatever they have already because we also know that even before the negotiations, 15 member states already had measures in place and those technically can be considered transposition measures, but they not all of them have done this. So just to tell you that sometimes what appears through the technical transposition actually can be less than what is already happening on the ground. So it's not only that there is certainly something missing, but maybe they have already some measures in place even from before the Pay Transparency Directive, but they simply have forgotten to say it.

Again, this is no excuse. So, the 13 member states, and here I cannot tell you upfront whether it's full or partial because we need to analyze. So whatever they have said in their communication is not what the Commission is saying here. So, the 14 member states are Malta, Italy, Lithuania, Slovakia, Sweden, Belgium, Poland, Estonia, Spain, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Romania and the Czech Republic. So, we know that today these member states are certainly quite deeply into the implementation.

What are the measures we can take? The Commission is already analyzing all the communications that have been made, because of course we need to see what is clear, what is not clear, and to see whether we and how we proceed, because there is first a cycle of infringements for non-communication, and then after that there will be a second round on our side of fully-fledged compliance checks, after which of course we can go to fully-fledged infringement procedures on the substance, not just on the fact that the member state has or not communicated implementation. So this is the, I would say, the legal aspect. Now, we also believe that through the different measures we have been put in place, through the constant dialogue and the help we are offering, we are meeting with member states sometimes for half days individually to explain, to go into depth and so on and so forth. We are meeting, we are continuing to meeting with social partners, because of course every different type of business category and so on is worried, they say we are all different, we are all special, how can we do our best?

So we're really trying to help as much as we can, because because we would really like to push this constructive approach, also knowing that we come from a period where lots of false rumors have been spread. So what is really important also is to confirm and and build upon a positive understanding, as you all said, that this directive is really important and it's really fundamental to increase gender equality, to make sure that whenever the same work or a work of equal value is done, be it by a woman or a man, the pay is equal. And the fact that the directive also establishes what do we mean with pay, what does it cover, and we are clarifying, for example, that it doesn't cover advantages that are given to everybody without any distinction, because sometimes simply people want to do well and they misunderstand and they think that the the final work they have to do is much more complicated than what they should be doing. Sometimes they think that for unipersonal businesses they need to do reporting. So we are spending lots of time and and we are doing all these tools also to clarify these basic misunderstandings that unfortunately are out there.

And so we also hope that you will help us also redirect those who come with questions to you to all this richness and wealth of materials which are already available, and this availability will increase day by day because we are working also on all the other tools. So just checking if there were other fundamental questions that I forgot. Yes, one thing I also wanted to to tell you because I forgot. We have invested and we will commit five million from the CERV program for the latest call that was closed end of April. And this time the strand on pay transparency was open not only to member states but also to social partners.

So we know that there are sectoral industries that have proposed something. Now the selection is ongoing and of course we will see what are the best and which one can get funds. But five million is not nothing, and this is the second time we are giving money to help the preparation of the pay transparency and the implementation of pay transparency.

We also already had a call in 2024 that was taken up by several member states to prepare tools to help businesses and social partners to implement fully the directive respecting its spirit and its principles. And of course we have the new gender equality strategy that the Commission adopted on 5th of March where there is a lot that accompanies also the pay transparency directive because in order to tackle the the gender pay and pension gaps we also need as you also said a series of other measures. So we are definitely committed from the Commission's side and we are going to do our best to help to support and to and to recall also the rights and the duties of all the actors involved because in order to enable a worker to ask information on the level of pays which is one of the fundamental objectives of the directive we need everybody to do their job and seriously.

36:42 - 39:50

Lina Gálvez

Thank you. Thank you very much. Indeed that includes us on making our our job. It is not only keep pushing for a good gender equality legislation but also for gender mainstreaming and gender budgeting that is the way to to really to translate our main political priorities into a reality and we are discussing that very much. So this is something we really need to keep doing in order to be coherent about what we are asking what we are doing in all different fields.

So thank you very much. We are glad to to hear that one thing is this technical transposition and that there is much more happening that what this technical transposition is telling us that there are many countries that are deeply involved in the implementation. Thank you for giving us the these 13 countries. Personally glad that my own country Spain it is also included included there as I said probably in this case because we have a previous legislation already. And let's fight together as well about misinformation that you were saying it is out there but sometimes it's also in here.

So we really need to to help together and we are also happy to hear that has been also called some financial help from the Commission to help member states with the implementation and obviously let's make all together to work for the gender equality strategy could be really developed and and for that I insist that probably we need to move on on the on our budget with this as a way to improve this gender mainstreaming we really need in not only to advance on on gender equality legislation but also to bring equality to all of our policies. So thank you very much. Thank you also for the ones that were very much involved in that legislation in the in the previous in the previous term. It was a big landmark. We were very proud of it so why we are so interested and so passionate as you mentioned about the implementation.

And and having said that we we finish for today. So thank you very much to all members. Thank you very much the Commission. Thank you very much the interpreters of the group. So on we have just the last point which is any other business.

There is no other business for my side. So have a nice evening and just if you can go to a swimming pool just just do it. Thank you. Bye.