Delegation for relations with Canada Ordinary meeting
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DELEGATIONS European Parliament
Speaker 7
We are witnessing a time when, perhaps more than ever before, it is important for those of us who hold to those common values around multilateralism, the support for democracy and human rights, a rules-based international order, that we find ways to come together and to work together. We think that Canada and the European Union not only can reinforce each other to bring together areas where we actually have each of us has needs that the other can potentially fill, but also to build on common capabilities in many areas where we need access to alternatives that do not belong simply to one of the larger countries in the world. We have a stake in engaging in an international system where rules matter, where sovereignty is respected, and where disputes are resolved peacefully. So, a lot of the work and the discussions that have been going on, particularly over the course of the past six months, have related to how can we deepen that relationship. But that's not the beginning; obviously, we have been working together as partners and as friends for a very long time.
CETA has been provisionally in force now for ten years, and it has been enormously successful. Last year, there was a Canada-EU summit that I think marked a significant step in the relationship; we committed to a more ambitious strategic partnership, we signed the EU-Canada Security and Defence Partnership. That led to Canada joining SAFE, and it, I hope, will soon lead to Canada participating in the Ukrainian Support Plan. There are a number of areas where I think progress is particularly important: trade and economic security, supply chain resilience, critical minerals and energy, and innovation and digital cooperation. Avec coopération commerciale et économique, l'AECG reste l'un des accords commerciaux l'un les plus avancés jamais conclus par l'une ou l'autre des parties.
Depuis son application provisoire, les échanges de marchandises entre le Canada et l'Union européenne ont considérablement augmenté, démontrant ainsi l'intérêt d'un commerce ouvert et fondé sur les règles. Il subsiste toutefois un potentiel considérable qui n'est pas encore exploité. Il convient de s'attacher à réduire les divers obstacles qui subsistent, notamment les barrières non tarifaires, et à renforcer la coopération réglementaire. À l'heure où les tendances protectionnistes se renforcent à l'échelle mondiale, le Canada et l'Union européenne devraient se faire les champions d'un commerce équitable et ouvert.
Certainly in supply chains, critical minerals and energy, Canada offers abundant critical minerals, clean energy potential, advanced research institutions, stable and predictable governance. There is strategic logic to the work that we will do together, finding ways to actually address vulnerabilities in our own supply chains, building stronger collective resilience. In terms of innovation and digital cooperation, this is an area where sovereignty is critically important going forward. Having access to the technologies of the future, it is critically important that we are not completely dependent on one of the larger company or country in the world. This creates opportunities for us.
The Canada-EU digital partnership reflects our strong alignment in areas of shared interest, including AI, quantum, cybersecurity, online platforms and digital credentials. We have associated with Horizon, with Pillar 1 of Horizon, which has benefited us from a research perspective and has encouraged collaboration. Certainly many of the research institutions in Québec have been part of that process. And we look forward to actually deepening the cooperation with Horizon, perhaps with respect to other pillars. The Canada-EU digital trade agreement has been under negotiation for some time and certainly I think we all hope to have something to say about that as we move towards the summit.
On security and defense, our commitment to European security is unwavering. Our commitment to the support of Ukraine is unwavering. We welcome certainly the EU-Canada security and defense partnership as an important step forward, but we need to ensure that we are continuing to deepen those relationships and continuing to work towards not only economic security, but obviously broader security. That is particularly true for Canada and for many members of the European Union in the Arctic, where we have common interests in ensuring that we are doing the appropriate things to ensure defense-related security, but also to ensure that we are doing that in a manner that will benefit the people and particularly the indigenous peoples who live in the North. We have had a process underway, as I say, for the past number of months.
It is driving towards the summit, which will take place with President Costa and President von der Leyen in Montréal at the end of October. There is work going on in all of these areas. We certainly hope to announce some very specific initiatives that will deepen the relationship in a fundamental way. And hopefully that will include enhanced partnerships and work between the various institutions, including very much the Parliament. You mentioned Jamie Malony and a number of the members of Parliament are coming here.
Certainly we would welcome a chance to engage you at the mission during that visit. But I do think that enhanced partnerships between our respective parliaments will be part of deepening the institutional integration between Canada and the European Union. So let me close just by saying this is a critically important time in global politics. We can sit back and essentially be participants in a world where the things that we value are being taken away, or we can decide that we are not going to do that. We are going to work together.
And eventually we're going to work together not just with the European Union and Canada, but with others who share our values: Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea and others, to create a model for the world about how we can move forward in a manner that respects the values and hopefully enhances the values to which we all hold dear. So thank you very much for inviting me today.
Javier Moreno Sánchez
Thank you dear ambassador. Et mes excuses de nouveau, Hélène et son équipe. C'est vrai que dans mon introduction j'ai oublié de vous mentionner mais bon, vous êtes quand même canadiens donc quand j'ai salué tous les amis canadiens, naturellement vous en faisiez partie. Je propose que de donner la parole à notre rapporteur permanent de la commission des affaires étrangères qui en plus a élaboré un excellent rapport qui a été présenté il y a quelques mois. Donc Tobias Cremer s'il te plaît.
Tobias Cremer
Yes, thank you very much for coming and also welcome again in this house. I really think if you managed to find this probably most hidden of rooms that we have, you are really, you really arrived in Brussels. And thank you for the clear words. I think Mark Carney really has already written Canadian-European history being in this chamber, giving this address, being there as the first foreign head of government during a SOTEU speech. And you could see the expectation and you could see the attention this has received.
I think many of us will have seen not just the massive crowds that weren't necessarily there for us, I think they really were there for the Prime Minister and the Commission President. But I also really noticed very high attention in our member states and actually beyond Europe as well. We saw a lot of attention from other countries who are also looking, who are seeing the geopolitical situation as it is. So I think first of all this is a really, really positive step. We are writing history.
We are also, one of the things I always said, we had been, we have become pretty amazing at writing love letters to each other. We now seem to be finally starting putting meat on the bone. So thank you also for going into a little bit more detail what that meat will consist of. And I think the expectations are high for the summit. But I think we have to know that this attention is now there and that the expectations are now there.
And whether we want it or not, that other countries will also start looking at how this is figured out because whether you call it associate membership, whether we find another term, it doesn't matter. What I always describe it is what we are trying to do with Canada as an alliance to show how close can a non-European country come to Europe and can we foster that alliance. And one question that I might have, and you will have all the support of the European Parliament in that, I mean the report was supported by 75% I think of our members. But one of the questions that I would also like to ask you is whether, where we stand or where your thoughts are on, we have the meat on the bone, but where the idea of a bit more holistic, institutionalized political coordination system. Of really saying we have all these pillars that are very important, but what do you see, what do you envisage at this stage, this cooperation to be in this like a bit more institutionalized setting, also I guess because many other countries will look at it maybe even as a blueprint.
And yes, I would be very delighted to hear some of your ideas on that even though I know it's early stages.
Speaker 6
Thank you Tobias. Dear ambassador, you prefer ping-pong style? We have time, or you want to collect questions and answer? It's up to you.
Speaker 7
So maybe just a couple of things. The first, if you will permit me, one of my favorite moments of the day that Prime Minister Carney spoke in Strasbourg was walking in and seeing a Canadian hockey jersey in the front row. And I also should congratulate the work of many of the folks in this room on the report that was done. It was actually an excellent report. I read it in the first couple of days that I was here.
So yeah, I mean I think institutional, finding ways to deepen institutional collaboration is going to be really important moving forward.
And that's both to ensure that we're talking to each other more regularly such that we actually are making the kind of progress and implementing the kinds of programming that we are going to commit to, hopefully at the summit. But it's also to try to ensure that we are addressing issues before they become problems, because there have been issues on both sides that have become irritants in the relationship. And if we had discussed them earlier in the regulatory or legislative development process, my bet is we could have solved them all and not very, it wouldn't have been very difficult. So I think that's important. Some of that institutional integration has already started.
So the Irish presidency has invited Canadian ministers to participate in virtually all of the informal meetings this year. We've found that to be enormously helpful to engage conversations on a range of issues. And I think that we are looking at trying to find ways to do those kinds of things moving forward. We haven't finished those conversations, but those are certainly the kinds of conversations that we're having.
Speaker 4
Thank you. I don't know if our vice president, Romana Tomc, wants to take the floor.
Romana Tomc
Yes, thank you very much for the floor. I'm really pleased that I have the opportunity to speak today here with you, also because I come from Slovenia and I'm really, really very pleased that I have this information that Slovenia has ratified CETA. This is something what I was promoting and personally advocated for a long time. It was not, well, possible, we were stuck for years, I would say so. But after our government took office in the mid of this year, it, well, the procedure went very smoothly and we bring it to a, brought it to a successful conclusion.
So I'm really personally pleased that I have contributed to this important step. And of course, I'm looking forward to our further cooperation on the EU level. So hearing our president of the commission and your prime minister speaking in European Parliament, it was really something which brings optimism to the further cooperation. But to be honest, now we have our will, our intention to do something. And we know that this is in this moment of time, critical moment of time, really important that we cooperate as much as possible.
But we must bring these words into action as well. So it's also up to us. We will help as much as we can. And well, I'm looking forward to all the results that will follow. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7
I would just say I was very pleased to see the ratification and it was, as I remember, 66 to 3. So it was very overwhelming in terms of the ratification. But no, we're very pleased to see that move forward. And thank you very much for your work.
Javier Moreno Sánchez
Ok, donc je vais ouvrir maintenant la réunion. Alors j'ai un doute, cher ambassadeur, je ne sais pas si c'est parce que tu es invité ou si c'est parce que le Canada est à la mode, mais il y a une présence incroyable de membres. D'habitude, il y a moins de membres. Donc je vais donner la parole à tout le monde.
Donc ici on ne fait pas par ordre politique. Prenez la parole, on a le temps pour tout le monde. Ah mais tu es là toi ! Tu es tout au bout. Agis s'il te plaît.
Je n'avais pas vu que tu étais...
Arash Saeidi
Je pense que c'est ton inconscient parce que la France fait partie des neuf qui restent qui doit m'invisibiliser.
Speaker 8
Non, je respecte le placement. Merci Javier, merci chers amis canadiens et québécois. Je vais commencer par une petite inquiétude pour finir par le meilleur évidemment, c'est mieux dans ce sens-là. Nous sommes à l'ère où il y a beaucoup d'évolutions à venir, enfin déjà existantes et à venir dans une ère numérique nouvelle, beaucoup d'inquiétudes et beaucoup de choses que nous devons réguler et réglementer vis-à-vis de l'intelligence artificielle. Moi j'ai d'abord une petite inquiétude quand même concernant l'accord de commerce numérique.
Mais j'espère que vous et la Commission allez me rassurer. Mon inquiétude c'est que cet accord inclut des dispositions susceptibles de restreindre votre capacité et la capacité de l'Union à réglementer aujourd'hui et demain l'intelligence artificielle et que des dispositions de droit commercial viennent nous empêcher ensuite de pouvoir réfléchir et ordonnancer un domaine d'activité dont les possibilités sont immenses mais aussi quelques risques sont à prendre en considération. Et je ne voudrais pas qu'un accord commercial vienne empêcher nos deux entités à intervenir dans ce domaine. Donc voilà cette inquiétude dont je vous fais part. J'arrive sur le plus positif.
L'Europe est obnubilée depuis deux décennies par des accords purement commerciaux. On a vu le résultat, ça ne nous a absolument pas renforcés d'un point de vue international et y compris commercialement, ça nous expose à des mesures de rétorsion des États-Unis d'Amérique. Moi j'ai accueilli avec beaucoup d'enthousiasme le discours de votre Premier ministre parce que devant le Parlement canadien et dans un contexte international où l'émergence d'un nouvel ordre international avec ce qu'on voit des États-Unis est nécessaire, moi j'ai pris ce discours comme un point de départ de la possibilité de créer un troisième ensemble non-aligné, efficace et influent. Je le prends comme ça ce discours et évidemment que nous avec nos amis canadiens et nos cousins québécois en tant que Français nous sommes particulièrement, nous avons accueilli ce discours avec un enthousiasme et nous avons envie de saisir cette main tendue. Cette coopération, vous l'aurez compris, je pense qu'elle doit être bien plus qu'un simple prisme commercial.
Nous devons faire beaucoup mieux et aller beaucoup plus loin. Vous aurez sans doute même compris que je ne suis pas persuadé que l'unique prisme commercial puisse nous renforcer. Je pense que mettre en concurrence nos agriculteurs, nos travailleurs en concurrence les uns avec les autres nous affaiblirait plus qu'autre chose et ne créerait pas forcément une force, une troisième force capable d'exister sur le plan international. Cette coopération pour moi, pour nous en général, elle doit être poussée sur le plan stratégique, culturel, universitaire, dans la recherche et le développement, la circulation des personnes. On oublie souvent la circulation des personnes qui rapproche les peuples.
On pense souvent la circulation des biens et des capitaux, on oublie les personnes.
Arash Saeidi
Donc voilà la coopération que j'appelle de mes vœux entre l'Union européenne et le Canada. J'espère que nous irons dans cette direction. J'étais ravi moi, vous me corrigerez peut-être, mais votre Premier ministre n'a pas parlé d'un statut particulier parce que je pense que nous n'avons pas intérêt à nous enfermer dans un dialogue institutionnel trop complexe qui demanderait de modifier des traités et de nous embarquer dans du, tu l'as rappelé Javier, la ratification c'est parfois complexe. Et je pense que nos coopérations peuvent se faire de manière bilatérale sans avoir besoin de modifier des traités et cetera et que ça peut être aussi de la discussion entre peuples et entre gouvernements. Et que le dialogue institutionnel, mais ça j'ai l'impression que votre Premier ministre l'a bien saisi, peut nous faire perdre énormément de temps et repousser à plus tard une coopération qui devient urgente.
Et le message que je voulais vous faire passer donc, c'est que s'il s'agit d'être ensemble insoumis aux États-Unis d'Amérique, vous nous trouverez nous toujours à vos côtés. Et merci et j'ai hâte de lancer cette coopération avec vous.
Speaker 19
Merci. Je suis complètement en accord avec le besoin d'avoir un accord ou les accords qui permettent de bouger très vite. Nous n'avons pas deux ou trois ou quatre ans pour négocier et pour avoir la ratification des choses. Bien sûr, nous devons bouger très vite. Et bien sûr les échanges, comme vous avez dit, entre les citoyens, c'est important.
Nous avons joint l'Horizon, c'est la recherche entre l'Union européenne et le Canada. Et le Premier ministre a dit que le Canada veut joindre l'Erasmus. Et c'est quelque chose pour les jeunes. Nous avons dit que nous allons joindre l'Eurovision, c'est quelque chose de culturel. Et bien sûr il y a les autres choses comme ça.
But I would also say that yes, we are very focused on trying to ensure that we are doing things that are very strategic. It's not just a free trade agreement. We have a free trade agreement. It's been very successful, but this is much more strategic. It's deepening the relationship in a number of areas that we think are extremely important either to Canada or to the European Union.
And at the foundation of all of this are those values, those common values, and finding ways to strengthen them. We are weaker apart, we are stronger together, we are more resilient together. And I'm happy to have a longer conversation about the particular areas of concern about artificial intelligence. But certainly I think everybody recognizes that as this evolves, there is going to be a need for some kind of guardrails with respect to artificial intelligence. And that's a global challenge.
It is difficult for any one jurisdiction to fully regulate AI. But certainly, you know, Canada understands that there is work to do and perhaps that is something we can work on together. So.
Katrin Langensiepen
Yeah, thanks for giving me the floor. Welcome, Mr. Wilkinson. I'm very happy to have you here. I've been to Canada in June, went to the Parliament, met parliamentarians and activists on human rights and Syrian community. And they were like, oh, please, let's have a contact, a bond between Europe and Canada.
So I think there's a huge will in the future to cooperate.
You mentioned it already, and it's not only a trade agreement, it's more. Could you go a bit into more details? Is there something new? Mentioned Erasmus+, mentioned here and there on economy and yes, trade, but what about more or new or different projects? And Prime Minister Joly has advocated for middle powers, in sort of middle powers alliance, and spoken about a world order that is based on resilience and respect rule of law.
What is the ambition of Canada in relation to how the EU and Canada can become catalysts for new version of multilateralism? What would be in your view priority areas on where the EU and Canada could offer other countries to join forces? After Canada, New Zealand raised their hand, Australia raised their hand, and I'm Europe too. Very, very nice and sweet, but to be honest, how can we change the world in a good way, in a progressive, democratic, and save our planet? And I think to make clear that it's not above the heads of the citizens, that they feel they're part of it.
We have democratic moves in Europe, in Germany, election, that really, really worries me. And citizens are afraid, new changes, what does it mean? And here Canada, the relationship can give hope, but what does it mean for citizens apart of Erasmus? Thank you.
Speaker 7
So let me say a few things, but obviously there are some things that are still under discussion that probably need to be concluded before the summit and obviously there'll be lots of time to talk about those once we get there. But I would say that as we move towards the summit, there's kind of two different tracks. One is let's ensure that we're finishing some of the things that we've talked about over the course of the past year and that are not yet concluded. So there is a digital trade agreement, for example. There is concluding the agreement with the European Investment Bank to enable critical minerals investments in Canada.
And there are a number of those kinds of things. But I would say that there's also a whole range of things that look forward. And some of those relate to programs that we've talked about in terms of Erasmus and Horizon. But there are others. You know, the announcement by President von der Leyen about this critical minerals corporation opens up the opportunity for conversations that can be bilateral initially, but perhaps can be multilateral down the road around things like stockpiling and offtakes to provide price floors because there are market failures in the critical minerals area which are due to the fact that, you know, China controls most of the extraction and it controls virtually all of the processing.
And those kinds of problems need to be resolved, no one country can resolve them. It needs to be done on a multilateral basis. I think that's sort of the way in which we're thinking about the catalyst for conversations amongst countries. I mean, it starts with the foundation of the values where, you know, we want to be partnering with those who actually share our commitment to democracy and multilateralism. But there are a number of particularly economic and technology areas where actually working together can help us all.
And that includes, you know, areas like AI and supercomputing and digital technologies. And that's the technologies themselves, but it's also conversations about how do we actually ensure this is done in a safe way. And I think those are areas where we should welcome participation by Australia and New Zealand and Japan and others. So I do think that part of the conversation between European Union and Canada is intended to be a catalyst like that, that will allow us to really strengthen our collective resilience. I will also say, you know, as we move forward, there are going to be many things that are I think likely announced at the summit that will need to be further developed and eventually implemented over the course of the coming year.
And there will be lots of time for conversations, not only with Council and with the Commission, but with parliamentarians. I should say, I am not a career diplomat. I am a recovering politician. And I was Canada's Minister of Environment and Climate Change, I was Canada's Minister of Energy and Critical Minerals. And until two weeks before I took this job, I was a member of the Canadian Parliament.
So I welcome engagement with you folks, whether that's in forums like this or other forums, because I do well understand the importance of Parliament.
Monika Hohlmeier
So thanks a lot. I'm sorry that I had to be delayed because we had CONT at the same time, so Budgetary Control Committee with the General Secretary. So sorry to be late. But I would have a question about what you were saying now to have participation or partnership, a better partnership in the area of research, technologies, digital, in all of these areas. We are discussing at the moment the multi-annual framework.
And some, let's say, colleagues of certain groups are still very reluctant and want to have a more protectionist approach, to be frank, and say no participation of third states in competitiveness fund. Yes, it is, that's it, how the discussions are at the moment. And as I see it, I think it was always very helpful for us to have further partners in the programs. They are not only contributing money, but they are contributing a lot of knowledge, they are contributing a lot of expertise and a lot of researchers. I'm always a fan of those who say let's unite researchers of the free world because together we are stronger than only everybody within its own member state.
So I would like to get your knowledge how perhaps to convince these colleagues, that it might be very helpful to have third states participating in different programs, space programs explicitly, and research program, Horizon program, competitiveness fund and so on. And a second question would be about a cooperation. You said we want to save the world.
I would be already happy to save ourselves, to be frank. I'm not even with the whole world because at the moment I don't see how I can change China or how I could change certain situations in the world. But how do you believe, what could be methods or possibilities from your point of view to enlarge our power for the kind of values, rule of law issues, justice system that we are very similar having in our states, even if there are differences, but we are free world and we are democratic world. And how do you believe that we would be able to have better connections, to get better connections again to the United States, because you are facing similar problems as we are facing. It's sometimes a little bit erratic what we are seeing at the moment, one day this, the other day the other decision.
So what is your expertise to this and what do you believe that we could perhaps do together to have something like the Western world united again and not at the end what we see upcoming at the moment?
Please.
Speaker 7
Those are big questions. Let me start with your first question about how to convince folks who may think that it's better to simply work internally. Obviously the European Union has to make its own decisions on those kinds of things, just as Canada does. But I would say in my experience, opening up to be able to actually leverage capabilities and talents that exist in different jurisdictions will almost certainly produce better outcomes. And one has to ensure that you're doing that with partners that you trust, that share your values, partners that will offer reciprocal arrangements, so it's not one-sided, it's beneficial to both.
But I would say, and I will say, the experience that we have had with participation in Horizon has been an enormously positive one, where researchers from Canada and researchers from the European Union have worked together and they've leveraged the expertise that exists in different academic institutions. But let me give you a very specific example. So with respect to critical minerals, we all know that it's important that we find ways to extract more and recycle more and all of those kinds of things. But one of the biggest bottlenecks and challenges for all of us is the processing side of critical minerals, of rare earths and a range of other things. Most of almost all of that processing technology presently resides in China.
And so there is not only an issue around building a processing plant, there's actually the development of technology so that you actually can build a processing plant. Canada has enormous experience in mining. We have a lot of research institutions that actually have a lot of experience in mining. But a lot of this is also basic chemistry and physics. And the European Union have many institutions that actually have that kind of expertise that could come together to help us to develop the technologies that we're going to need in order to execute the energy transition, build batteries, you know, supply our defense forces with the kinds of technologies that they require.
That's one where honestly I think the European Union will struggle even more than Canada because, you know, we are a mining nation. And there are things on the other side too where Canada really needs things that exist here. So that's kind of how I would try to convince your colleagues. In terms of save the world, I'm not sure I'm saying save the world. I'm not so naive to think that we are going to be able to necessarily convince the government in China that they should adopt all of our values at this point.
They obviously have a different perspective in some areas. But I do think that by coming together, initially Canada and the European Union, and in some areas ideally down the road with others who share the fundamental values that we do, that it will enhance our collective power in the world. It will allow us to ensure that our values are seen by others as things that they could aspire to actually implementing and adopting and working with us on the go-forward basis. And while Canada will certainly benefit from that, I would say that the biggest beneficiary will be the European Union, who will be the biggest partner in that and essentially will be the core of trying to build this group of countries that can actually work together to help each other.
Damian Boeselager
Yes, thank you, Ambassador, for coming. It's very nice to see you here. I think we saw an overwhelming support for stronger Canada-EU relations two weeks ago, and I think even me personally, I got a lot of messages from Canadians saying we would love to connect better, what can we do? And that is very nice to see. And I think it would be nice to fill this message of hope with some more concrete, but also maybe not only policy-nerdy technocratic stuff, but also with a symbolic act that somehow can show that we are getting closer together and to basically fill this associate membership with something or whatever term you want to find.
And so I wanted to ask very concretely, when we look at the single market with Canada, would it be possible to even reduce further any form of tariffs for goods and services, but also for investment to make sure that we benefit also by sending packages to each other with small exporters, not only raw materials, which I fully agree and defend. And then second, on visa liberalization, I mean, I think it's so symbolic if it was very, very easy for people to live, to travel, but also to work in Canada and the EU vice versa without any issues, so with basically almost the same freedom of mobility that we have within the European Union. Do you think that's possible? And then third, on the institutional aspect, I'm very happy that on the ministerial level there's exchange. Does it make sense to actually create something like an observer status for parliamentarians in the European Union, for example, for the Strasbourg plenary and vice versa also in Ottawa?
Thank you.
Speaker 7
So, I mean, look, I think that there will be, that this summit will focus on a whole range of things that will be the start of the deepening of the relationship. That's not the end of it. There certainly will be additional things that we will want to do over the course of the coming years. You know, I think CETA has done a pretty good job of reducing direct tariffs, and there may be areas where we want to look further as to whether there are things that can and should be done. But I actually think in this area, sometimes it's the non-tariff barriers that we actually need to be looking at presently.
And that is the subject of some conversations that we are having in terms of some of the things that on the European side they have seen as irritants from a non-tariff barrier perspective, and the same thing on our side, to see if some of these things that have been long-standing can be resolved as we move towards the summit. And we will see, but that would be, I think, a positive step forward.
On labor mobility, so the Prime Minister talked particularly about Erasmus and that obviously is beneficial particularly for young people. I think that's a start. There are other things that we've been doing and that we may continue to do. So there was a mutual accreditation of architects that we actually finished recently and it may be that we want to look at some of the other professions where we could do mutual accreditation and enhance mobility. I think it's step by step in terms of having those kinds of conversations rather than simply broad labor mobility, which is something that occurs within the Union itself.
But I think in specific areas, that's an important part of the conversation. And the observer status in terms of Parliament, I mean, that's interesting. I've not heard that before. So we're looking at creative options as to how we actually ensure that we each have an opportunity to participate more in the conversations that are happening within our various institutions. That's an interesting idea.
I certainly thought a lot about more exchanges between the parliaments and parliamentarians, but I will take that away. It's interesting.
Barbara Bonte
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Mr. Robinson, for being here. First of all, I just want to stress that EU primary law doesn't provide for a sort of associate membership, so states are either in and out, and also states have to be geographically in Europe, so that's not the case with Canada. So an associate membership legally doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean that we cannot cooperate, of course. And as you stated, we already cooperate a lot, we already have a lot of partnerships, which is of course a very good thing. Mr. Ambassador, you said that you wanted to deepen institutional relations with the EU, so what exactly do you mean by this and could you give us any examples, how far does this have to go according to you?
Speaker 7
So I recognize that the term associate membership has different meanings and there really isn't at this point a legal framework for that, but or at least not in this particular case. I think there are a couple of treaties that actually deal with associate membership, but I would say, and I said this after the Prime Minister's speech and I think he effectively said the same thing, which is we're really focused right now on the content and trying to actually get that right as we move towards the summit. And as we move through those conversations, then we have to decide exactly what we're going to call this. And certainly one term that we've discussed is associate membership, and I think that would connote the fact that we are talking about things like deeper institutional work together. We've also talked about Alliance for the Future, which in some respects connotes an ability to actually in some respects bring other states with us down the road.
So we're not there yet, and wherever we land with respect to that collectively and jointly, we're going to have to explain to people what it means. And that's on us as we move through the negotiations. So and in terms of deepening institutional relationships, I would go back to I think something that I said earlier, but is a good example of that is what has been happening this particular year where Canadian ministers have been invited by the Irish presidency to participate in every meeting of ministers, EU ministers that have happened. In some meetings that's us, in some meetings it's other close partners, including Norway and Switzerland and the United Kingdom. But that's an example of the kind of integration, and by integration I mean opportunities for dialogue so that we actually are talking on an ongoing basis about things that are really important to both of us.
So.
Javier Moreno Sánchez
Alors je vais me permettre de poser quelques questions cher ambassadeur. Parlons un peu des personnes et des travailleurs. Donc c'est très bien qu'il y ait cette convention pour les architectes, la reconnaissance mutuelle des diplômes, entre autres parce que mon fils est architecte mais à quel autre domaine tu penses qu'on peut élargir ce genre de convention? Et autre chose qui m'a souvent frappé quand je vais au Canada c'est que quand je parle avec les différents stakeholders ils connaissent pas par exemple les instruments que nous on a, la Blue Card, le Single Permit qui permettent notamment aux jeunes canadiens de venir travailler en Europe. Donc est-ce que ce genre d'instrument on doit continuer à les développer et comment on pourrait les développer?
Deuxièmement, hier nous avons eu une réunion avec les représentants de la Commission qui nous ont donné espoir pour que l'accord digital soit prêt pour le sommet. Est-ce que du côté canadien tu es aussi optimiste? Et troisième chose, on n'a pas parlé de l'éléphant qui est dans le magasin de porcelaine mais je veux te rassurer, en tout cas dans cette maison, l'accélérateur industriel européen pour nous c'est très clair en tout cas je pense dans cette délégation que le Canada est entièrement dedans parce que ça sert à rien de faire des grands discours d'aller à Strasbourg de dire que le Canada est avec nous et maintenant on va faire un accélérateur industriel de Made in Europe où on mettrait le Canada de côté. Ça n'aurait aucun sens donc en tout cas compte sur nous je pense qu'en tout cas au niveau du Parlement on va tout faire pour que le Canada depuis le début soit dedans. Donc voilà mes trois points.
Speaker 19
So je crois qu'avec le premier question c'est important que nous nous prenons les étapes. Et le premier étape c'est les choses comme Erasmus et peut-être on doit continuer avec les conversations comme l'architecte. Mais je crois que ça c'est pour maintenant les prochaines étapes et après on verra. Avec le cadre digital nous espérons que nous pouvons avoir un accord par le sommet mais on doit fermer quelque chose dans les négociations mais bien sûr c'est quelque chose que les chefs ont dit que nous pouvons faire cet été. And with the industrial accelerator, so you know I can only obviously speak for Canada but I would say our view is we would like to be as close as we possibly can be and to work together in a manner that benefits both of us.
We would like to be treated as though we are European country for the purposes of programs like or legislation like the industrial accelerator but also for the competitiveness fund.
Speaker 7
We recognize that that comes with us needing to participate and that there are obligations that we would be taking on. But if we're going to actually do the things that I think we both want to do, which is to enhance as much as we can our collective resilience in a world that is enormously tumultuous right now, I think those are the kinds of things that we need to have the courage to do.
Damian Boeselager
Since we have still like 17 minutes, if I may ask another question, I would do it. Yeah? Yeah? Okay, I have three again to make it very simple. Did this show of solidarity and cooperation help you in your negotiations with the US?
The second question is just underlining something I asked earlier. I think there's a lot of individuals in Canada and in the EU who would like to fill this cooperation with life. And at the moment, I'm often transfer them to the Chambers of Commerce or similar institutions. Do you think we can, like, what can we tell these people? What would you tell Canadians that want to somehow support the EU-Canadian, you know, friendship from all different industries?
Like, what is the answer that I should give to these people? And then a very nerdy thing. I'm negotiating the digital euro, which is basically, if you want, a sovereignty instrument to make us less dependent from Visa and Mastercard or other third-country payment providers. And I was just wondering, there is a clause in there that allows third countries to also offer this to their citizens to have an alternative to potential payment schemes from third countries. Maybe this is something you can consider also going forward.
It's 2029 that it will come, so you have some time to figure it out. But I don't know if you have a comment on that already.
Speaker 7
So, I mean, advice to give to industries, I would say there's probably a few things. I mean, referring them to the Chambers of Commerce is not a bad thing. And I think we have been trying to establish Canadian Chambers of Commerce in many cities in Europe so that there's a place to go and have conversations about Canada. We also have a very strong trade commission, and they are mandated to try to find ways to partner companies. And so if there are people that are interested in Canada or in finding partners in Canada, come and talk to us.
But I also think that it may be time as we move forward for us to consider establishing a more formal kind of business council or something like that that actually would enable greater discussion amongst the business communities in our respective countries. And so that's something that I think may come as part of the broader conversations that we're having. It can't just be government. It needs to involve businesses and industries eventually. On the United States, so both the European Union and Canada need to have a relationship with the United States and a constructive relationship with the United States.
We are, you know, both have gone through some challenging times. And Canada's relationship right now has had a number of challenges. But, you know, I mean, given our geography and given our history and given the shared ties between our countries, I mean, we all have in Canada, we all have friends in the United States, many of us have relatives in the United States. It's important that we actually find pathways to a more thoughtful path forward for both of us. But I would say that, you know, in the last election campaign and subsequent to that, Prime Minister Carney's been very clear that Canada needs to become more resilient going forward, irrespective of, you know, which party is in power in Washington.
That Canada needs to ensure resilience through diversification and having relationships with other countries. And at the top of Prime Minister Carney's list in terms of who he would like to deepen the relationship with, it's the European Union. It doesn't mean that, you know, Japan and India and others aren't important to us, but the European Union is by far at this stage the most critical area of focus for our Prime Minister. And I think that, you know, it's the same, I would say I think it's the same view that President von der Leyen has the other way, which is there are lots of things that we can do to help each other and so let's start here. On the digital euro, I have to admit I'm probably not an expert in that area, but I would be interested in learning more.
The person who probably would be the expert is our Prime Minister, who would know a lot about this, but we're certainly, I'm certainly open if you want to have more conversation about it to learning.
Javier Moreno Sánchez
Okay, we have still time. Any other comment? My vice-presidents, no? My colleagues, no? So, Jonathan, Nicola, Helen, thank you very much and we will see next meeting if it was because of you or because of Canada that it was this attendance.
So thank you for coming to everybody and let's, there is no any other business, so you can go for lunch. Bye-bye.