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PLENARY European Parliament
Follow its sittingsThomas Byrne
Turning to defense readiness, it's important to maintain momentum across all strands of work. Recent hybrid attacks and acts of sabotage in member states have only added to the urgency of making progress. These attacks have also highlighted the need to strengthen resilience and preparedness against hybrid threats. Leaders' discussions will be informed by the first annual defense readiness report published last week. As agreed in June, the European Council will also hold a strategic discussion on migration.
Leaders will discuss the way forward building on the results achieved. As the Irish presidency seeks to seize upon the recent momentum on enlargement and seeks to make progress on the candidacies of the frontrunners of Montenegro, Albania, Moldova, and Ukraine, another strategic discussion will focus on enlargement and reforms. This will be an opportunity to take stock of progress and look more broadly at how best to prepare the Union for future enlargements. Leaders will discuss the enlargement process, the possibilities for gradual integration, and transitional measures and safeguards in future accession treaties. And indeed, the Commission's communication on these issues will be an important input into the discussion.
The objective is clear for this meeting of the leaders: to make Europe stronger, more resilient, and better able to act in a rapidly changing world. Thank you very much for your attention.
Now I give the floor to the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.
Ursula von der Leyen
Thank you very much, Madam President Roberta, Minister, honorable members. Let me start directly with the topic that affects all of us, and this is the high energy costs. Families and industries are paying the cost of a crisis far beyond our borders. Since the end of February, gas prices have risen by 140%. Diesel prices have doubled.
And altogether, if we look at the imported fossil fuels, their costs for Europe are 100 billion euros extra without a single molecule of energy in addition. So we are all feeling these higher costs. Businesses are under high pressure, people struggle to pay their bills, and this could of course intensify as we head into the winter. We need to act now to protect those most in need and to make sure we come out of this crisis stronger than we entered it, that we address the structural problems that are underlying for this crisis. Honorable members, we have gone through that before.
Four years ago, Russia tried to blackmail us. At that time, 45% of our gas imports came from Russia. You remember almost overnight, almost everything was cut. But Europe stood together and we came out stronger. We diversified our supplies.
We massively accelerated investment in homegrown clean energy. And today our import from Russian gas has fallen from 45% down to 12%. And we will reduce that to zero by the end of the year. In addition, more than 70% of our electricity today comes from homegrown and clean sources, that is renewables and nuclear. Because of these decisions that we took in 2022, today we're less vulnerable and in a better position.
And therefore the decisions we take today must follow the same logic. In the short term we need to support member states to respond to the immediate pressure, but for the mid and long term we need to continue to address the structural issues that leave us exposed to volatile foreign fossil fuel markets, so we need to invest in our resilience. Let me start with the short-term response. We know that energy challenges are not the same across the European Union because every single member state has a different energy mix. Let me give you some figures.
In one member state, for example, the megawatt hour of electricity costs around 145 euros. Here the price is set mostly by gas. In another member state, the same megawatt hour of electricity costs only 70 euros. Here nuclear and renewables are setting the price. So, there is no silver bullet for the whole of the European Union, different member states have different energy mixes and they face different pressures.
Our role is to give member states the tools and the flexibility to respond. This is why you remember in April, right at the beginning of the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, we presented Accelerate EU. We introduced a temporary state aid framework for the industrial sectors most exposed, which we will prolong, and we set out options to help the households most in need.
Very important here is, the support has to be targeted. There should be no blanket handouts, because that would only increase the demand, it would actually favor higher incomes, and it entails enormous costs. So we need tailored support, and there are good examples of this. In France and Romania, for example, energy voucher schemes provide support to low-income families. This is the right approach: very targeted, effective support for those who truly need it.
So far for the demand side. At the same time, we're working with our partners on the supply side. Last week, G7 members agreed to release 100 million barrels of diesel and crude oil. This will help stabilize the global prices. We will give flexibility to exporters for one more year on methane.
This saves additional costs at a moment of crisis. And we will launch a strategic dialogue on European refineries. The aim is here too to bring down costs and to ensure we have the supplies that we need, actually also the supplies that we need for defense. And therefore this strategic dialogue will be chaired by Commissioner Jørgensen and Commissioner Kubilius.
And finally, we will launch a new task force to bundle energy demand. As I said, there is a different energy mix in every member state. Therefore, we have a quite fragmented demand side. We have done this actually before. When Russia tried to blackmail us, we brought together European buyers.
We pooled the demand. We helped secure the supplies that Europe needs. So it is a model that works. But now we have to bring it to the next level. We want to move from simple matchmaking to aggregating demand and then task a market operator to do the joint procurement for all of us.
Now so far the short term. As I said, most important is also the investments in the mid and long term. And honorable members, it is one thing to respond to the immediate threat, but as long as Europe depends on oil and gas, our prosperity remains exposed to events that are beyond our control. When we import fossil fuels, we import the shocks and crises that come with them.
So we must transform the way we consume energy. We need to make strategic choices today to secure our energy independence tomorrow. And that means replacing fossil fuels with clean electricity made here in Europe. On production, we have already made real progress. Last year, for the first time, wind and solar produced more electricity than all fossil fuels combined.
But we need the infrastructure to get this clean electricity to where it is needed. Here again, one figure. Last year, we installed more than 80 gigawatts of renewable capacity. That is good. But six times more is still waiting to be connected, so is wasted.
And that is why we need our grids package so urgently. You recall, it's in your hands now to have a degree till the end of the year, and I know that Europe can count on you. Honorable members, producing clean energy and getting it where it is needed is only half the job. We also need to use more of it.
Today, electricity accounts for less than a quarter of our final energy consumption. Therefore, our electrification action plan sets out clear targets to double that by 2040. And if we are managing this, just imagine, that could help cut our fossil fuel imports by 260 billion euros every year. Therefore, in the coming months, we will come forward with the measures to deliver on this. Because every electron of clean energy we produce and use here in the European Union is energy we do not need to import from volatile global markets.
Honorable members, the energy challenge we are facing is another reminder that our next long-term budget needs to rise to the many challenges Europe is facing. We need to step up our investments, and just as a reminder, in defense and security, in competitiveness, in artificial intelligence, in energy infrastructure we just spoke about it, in raw materials, in research, in innovation, skills, enlargement, international partnerships, I could go on and on. The priorities for the next MFF, including the need to safeguard food security and cohesion, are not challenged. We have all agreed on them.
The question is how is the ambition? We have proposed an MFF that preserves the current level of funding for financial support to agriculture and cohesion. At the same time, our proposal significantly boosts the financing for priorities that are currently underfunded in our budget. Some of these areas will be covered by the future competitiveness fund, but also beyond, for example, for energy infrastructure or the topic of military mobility. Our proposal also addresses the new reality we live in and increases the funding for crises.
This is the case for the agricultural reserve, for example, completely depleted now, or for natural disaster, also completely depleted, or for additional funding to tackle illegal migration. This summer, honorable members reminded us how critical such instruments and of course their funding is.
And finally, we have proposed to boost financing in areas where spending at the European level is delivering more and better results than spending nationally. Think of large scale projects such as space, self-explanatory. And it is also needed for projects that simply would not be possible without European funding, for example, again, energy interconnection or other cross-border projects. So, honorable members, we sometimes hear that this is not possible. Allow me to recall that we are talking about a budget of 1.26% of the European Union's GNI.
I am aware that balancing all of the constraints is not easy. I'm also aware of the difficult budgetary situation in member states. But I would like to caution against large cuts. It would risk cutting deep into critical priorities that we all together have agreed on. This is why we have proposed a significant package of new own resources and I know that this house will support me in this.
I believe that the priorities we proposed in the MFF are the right ones.
If we want to preserve our priorities and the level of ambition we have for Europe, we have to do the hard work on the revenue side. Thank you very much and long live Europe.
Roberta Metsola
Thank you very much, President von der Leyen, and now we'll start with the group speakers, starting with the EPP group, Siegfried Mureșan.
Siegfried Mureşan
Thank you, President, good morning, dear colleagues. Just three weeks ago, from this plenary of the European Parliament, we gave a very important signal to the outside world by inviting Canada to strengthen its ties with the European Union. Canada is a NATO founding member, it is a G7 nation, and it is an important trading partner for the European Union. Together as liberal democracies, we are also defending the values that we share, and with that signal, we with that decision, we gave a very clear signal to the outside world that the European Union can be, for the years and decades to come, the global center of gravity for liberal democracies. And because we have this unique opportunity now, people are looking at us.
The next European Council will be important, and the message that we have to transmit is that we have our house in order, that we know exactly what we want to do over the course of the next years. A Union that is safe and secure, a Union that protects its citizens and that protects its enterprises, a Union that invests in innovation, that wants to become more competitive, that wants to put technology at work for the citizens, and a European Union that defends human rights, the rule of law, a European Union that is based on values, on rules, and on laws. And to be sure that we can do this, indeed, President, the budget of the European Union, the multiannual financial framework that we are supposed to decide together in the upcoming months, will be important. We as a European Parliament agree that we have to invest more in the security, in the competitiveness of the Union, continuing to provide support to our regions, to our farmers, and the European Parliament does have a position on this file. It is high time that the European Council also agrees on a position on the multiannual financial framework so that we can have negotiations between Parliament and Council as soon as possible.
And we need a budget which is sufficient, because if the budget is insufficient, the challenges that we are facing are not disappearing. Member States will have to tackle them at national level. It will be more expensive. This is why this European Parliament will in no ways be in a position to approve a budget which is insufficient, which contains unjustified cuts, because it would weaken Europe, it would only be fuel for the populists.
This being said, every Prime Minister coming to the European Council and wanting to pay as little as possible to the European Union and benefit as much as possible, that is not European. So our task together will be to defend the budget which is good for every member state of the Union, but good and sufficient for the European Union. And that will also be key to the image that we are going to project in the next years to our citizens, to our enterprises, but also to the outside world. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Now on behalf of the S&D Group, I give the floor to its chair, Iratxe García Pérez.
Iratxe García Pérez
Gracias, presidenta. Hay una pregunta que deberíamos hacernos antes de hablar del próximo presupuesto europeo y es qué Europa queremos construir. Porque hoy hay dos Europas en disputa. Está la Europa que recorta, que enfrenta la cohesión con la competitividad, la agricultura con la defensa, la inversión social con la seguridad. Es la Europa que finge hacer más con menos.
Pero es imposible hacer más con menos. ¿Cómo vamos a recortar el presupuesto cuando las guerras de Trump, Putin y Netanyahu están encareciendo el precio de la energía y haciendo la vida más difícil a millones de europeos? Cuando nuestros agricultores pierden sus cosechas por los incendios, las sequías y las inundaciones. Cuando nuestras familias no pueden pagar una vivienda.
Nosotros defendemos otra Europa. La Europa de la cohesión que construye hospitales, escuelas, carreteras y empleo en nuestras regiones. La Europa de nuestros agricultores que alimentan a los ciudadanos, protegen nuestro territorio y merecen una renta digna. La Europa competitiva que sabe que nuestra industria solo será fuerte si aceleramos el pacto verde. La Europa que se defiende frente a las amenazas de Trump y frente a la guerra híbrida de Putin.
Y sobre todo, la Europa social. La que pone la vivienda en el centro, porque una unión que habla de prosperidad mientras una generación entera no puede acceder a una casa, está fallando a sus ciudadanos. Y lo hemos visto en países como España, cuando hay fuerzas políticas que prefieren ponerse del lado de los grandes grupos de inversión y de los fondos buitre que de la gente que de verdad necesita de una política digna. Y por eso necesitamos una Europa que se atreva.
Que se atreva con los poderosos y con los grandes beneficiarios del mercado único, con recursos propios procedentes de las grandes plataformas digitales, del juego online y de las criptomonedas. Y una Europa justa, que haga pagar a las compañías energéticas por sus beneficios extraordinarios para crear un bono social que ayude a las familias con la luz, la calefacción, la gasolina y la cesta de la compra. Presidenta von der Leyen, se lo pido directamente: proponga un impuesto sobre los beneficios extraordinarios de las compañías energéticas, porque es inaceptable que las energéticas se enriquezcan con los beneficios de las guerras mientras nuestros ciudadanos no llegan a fin de mes. Y presione a los estados, no permita que este presupuesto nazca mutilado por los recortes. El presupuesto europeo no es una hoja de Excel.
Es una decisión política sobre quién queremos ser. Nosotros queremos una Europa que esté al lado de la gente cuando más lo necesita, porque esa Europa no solo es posible, es la única Europa que merece la pena construir y defender. Muchas gracias.
Roberta Metsola
Thank you very much. Now for the PfE Group, Kinga Gál, one and a half minutes.
Tisztelt elnök asszony, elnök asszonyok, miniszter úr, kollégák!
Kinga Gál
A jövő heti uniós csúcs előtt elismételhetném újra, mi nincs rendben Európában. Beszélhetnénk a magas energiaárakról, az illegális migráció miatt romló közbiztonságról, az MFF hibás prioritásairól, a gazdákat és kohéziót érintő pénzelvonásokról, újabb adókról. Mi patrióták évek óta hiába kongatjuk a vészharangokat, hogy az Unió rossz irányba halad, és hogy gyökeres irányváltás kell. Mit tesz közben a Bizottság? A hibáktól nem okulva, valódi megoldások helyett továbbra is központosít, bürokráciát épít, és ideológiai célok mentén akarja meghatározni Európa jövőjét.
Az elmúlt másfél évtizedben önök állandóan farkast kiáltottak, számonkérve a jogállamiságot az előző patrióta magyar kormányon. Most az új magyar kormány önkényt épít, ellenzéki politikusokat zárnak ki a politikai versenyből, politikailag motivált büntetőeljárásokat indítanak ellenük, és aránytalan kényszerintézkedéseket alkalmaznak megfélemlítés céljából. Mindez a kommunista időket idézi számunkra, de az uniós intézmények részéről néma csend van.
A hallgatás csak egyet jelenthet: annak a nyilvánvaló beismerését, hogy a Tisza-kormány demokráciát korlátozó lépései a Bizottság és a Tanács támogató hallgatásával, sőt ösztönzésére történnek. Beigazolódott, hogy a jogállamiság itt csak addig számít, ameddig azt patrióta kormányok zsarolására, büntetésére lehet használni.
Thank you. Now I give the floor to the co-chair of the ECR Group, Nicola Procaccini. Two and a half minutes.
Nicola Procaccini
Grazie Presidente, Presidente von der Leyen. Il prossimo Consiglio europeo si riunisce mentre fuori la realtà continua a bussare con molta forza, con l'aumento del costo dei carburanti, la fiammata inflazionistica sta di nuovo travolgendo le famiglie e soffocando le imprese. Io non mi stancherò mai di ripeterlo: è sbagliato dividersi in due squadre, quella delle fonti rinnovabili e quella delle fonti fossili. Lo scopo della partita è un altro: dobbiamo essere più autonomi nella autoproduzione di energia, qualunque ne sia la fonte, anziché essere costretti a comprarla da fuori, da altri.
Invece qui dentro tutto continua a girare sempre intorno al feticcio della decarbonizzazione. L'autonomia strategica è l'unica strada per essere resilienti di fronte agli shock geopolitici che possono sopraggiungere da un momento all'altro. Vale per l'energia come per la difesa militare. Non è certo un caso se il primo nucleo fondativo dell'Unione si sia coagulato proprio intorno al carbone e all'acciaio. Sovranità energetica e sicurezza sono le due facce della stessa medaglia.
A tal proposito, due notizie importanti sono arrivate dalla Lettonia. La prima riguarda il rischio di fallimento di AirBaltic. Dai suoi libri contabili abbiamo saputo che il suo principale creditore è lo Stato lettone, o meglio l'Unione Europea, a cui la compagnia europea deve versare oltre 40 milioni di euro di quote ETS. Una tassa mostruosa che crea un mostruoso svantaggio competitivo tra le aziende europee e il resto del mondo, senza aiutare l'ambiente. Il CEO di Lufthansa ha messo in fila due numeri impressionanti.
L'Unione Europea produce appena il 5% delle emissioni mondiali di gas serra, ma contribuisce con oltre l'80% alle entrate mondiali derivanti dai sistemi di scambio delle emissioni. La seconda notizia che arriva dalla Lettonia è la grande vittoria del premier Kolbergs e della famiglia politica dei conservatori. I cittadini chiedono fermezza sui confini, sicurezza, rispetto della propria identità nazionale e un drastico ritorno al buon senso in economia. Il Consiglio Europeo ascolti finalmente questa voce prima che siano le crisi a travolgere l'Europa. Grazie.
Grazie, onorevole Procaccini. Now the chair of the Renew Europe group, Valérie Hayer, two minutes.
Valérie Hayer
Merci, Madame la Présidente. Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Ministre, chers collègues. À quelques jours du sommet européen, je voudrais commencer par un chiffre. 360 milliards. 360 milliards d'euros, c'est le déficit commercial de l'Union européenne avec la Chine en 2025.
Près d'un milliard d'euros par jour. Ce que révèle ce chiffre, c'est qu'on ne lutte pas à armes égales. La Chine organise le déséquilibre commercial avec l'Union européenne. Alors, Madame la Présidente, nous devons durcir notre doctrine commerciale, justement parce que nous soutenons un commerce international basé sur des règles claires. Ce sont ces règles qui protègent nos emplois et nos entreprises et qui nous permettent de renforcer notre compétitivité.
L'ouverture de notre marché reste évidemment un atout, mais il ne peut se faire sans la mise en œuvre d'une sécurité économique européenne réellement efficace.
À cet égard, les positions évoluent et je m'en félicite. Alors, Madame la Présidente, nous attendons vos annonces prochaines sur ces questions fondamentales pour l'avenir de notre économie européenne. Deuxième point que je souhaite aborder, ça a déjà été évoqué par mes prédécesseurs : le budget européen. On va dire les choses franchement. On sait tous aujourd'hui les tensions qu'il y a autour de la sortie de la Négobox.
Mais la réalité, c'est qu'il n'y a qu'un seul budget qui vaille : pas de coupes drastiques, et c'est aussi une proposition ambitieuse sur les ressources propres. Et Monsieur le Ministre, cher Thomas, vous savez que vous avez tout notre soutien. Vous savez aussi quelles sont nos exigences, vous les connaissez parfaitement : pas d'accord du Parlement sans avancée sur les ressources propres. Et là aussi, on sait quels sont les freins, alors il faut qu'on soit créatifs ensemble. Dernier point, et je m'adresse ici directement au Conseil, bien au-delà de la présidence irlandaise : sur ce sujet comme sur beaucoup d'autres, vous êtes trop lents.
Le Parlement européen, il fait son travail législatif sur l'élargissement, sur le budget, sur l'Ukraine, sur la défense européenne, sur la mise en œuvre du rapport Draghi. Mais que font les États ? Ça fait plus de deux ans maintenant qu'on attend que nos dirigeants se mettent d'accord sur ces sujets comme sur d'autres.
Et sur toutes ces priorités, déblocages, tergiversations, du temps perdu, de l'inertie. Alors il faut y aller maintenant. Chers collègues, on le sait tous, les Européens nous regardent. Ce n'est pas demain qu'il faut agir, c'est maintenant. Je vous remercie.
Merci. Now the co-chair of the Left Group, Martin Schirdewan. Sorry, chair of the Greens Group, Terry Reintke, two minutes.
Terry Reintke
Last time I checked, I was not Martin Schirdewan, but thanks, President. Dear President, dear Minister, dear colleagues, this EUCO is absolutely crucial for the MFF. And I have two messages to the European leaders. First, if you think for one second that this Parliament is like previous Parliaments and that you can basically just present us with a fait accompli at the end of the negotiations and then we are going to swallow it, we are heading for disaster and you will be responsible for it. Building majorities is very, very difficult in this House.
And we managed to do it in the interim report. So let that be your guiding light when you are negotiating on where you want to head with the MFF. And secondly, without own resources, we will simply not make it work. You want to pay less in national contributions? Well, there is a way to do that.
Stop blocking sensible ways of financing the European budget. And on enlargement, colleagues, yes, we absolutely need a positive story.
I want the European Union to grow, enabling more people to become EU citizens. But Commission President, if you go to a candidate country that has seen mass protests for more than 130 days, and not just on anything, because the Flamingo Revolution is largely about EU values, it is about upholding EU law, and you do not even mention that, we have a problem. Albania is the prime example. People outside the European Union are not looking for accession just for the sake of accession. They want to have rights as EU citizens.
They want to be protected from corruption and they want to have better lives. And that is the vision, colleagues, that we have to give to people in candidate countries. So we need to have a merit-based process, a strong focus on rule of law, and we need clear commitments from the European side, and we also need to stand up to those commitments, even if some member states are making it difficult. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Ms. Reintke, and now the co-president of the Left group, Martin Schirdewan, two minutes.
Martin Schirdewan
Yeah, this time it's really me, Madam President. Frau Präsidentin, in Berlin gewinnt die Linke die Wahlen, weil meine Partei glaubwürdig das zentrale Problem dieser Stadt angehen wird: Die Menschen können sich die Mieten nicht mehr leisten, und meine Genossin Elif Eralp, bald Bürgermeisterin von Berlin, wird das ändern. In Spanien geht eine halbe Million Menschen auf die Straße für bezahlbaren Wohnraum. Auslöser war die Zwangsräumung der 87-jährigen Mari Carmen aus ihrer Wohnung, in der sie fast ihr gesamtes Leben verbracht hat. Skrupellose Miethaie hatten die Miete von Mari Carmen von 500 Euro auf 2650 Euro im Monat erhöht.
Sie darf jetzt in ihrer Wohnung bleiben, der Widerstand hat sich gelohnt. Doch der Kampf um ein bezahlbares Leben geht weiter. Basta, es reicht! Wohnen ist ein Menschenrecht, die Mieten müssen runter. In Berlin, in Madrid, in Paris, in Athen, in vielen europäischen Städten, in den Metropolen brennt die Luft.
Die Spritpreise explodieren, Menschen können ihre Tankfüllung und ihren Weg zur Arbeit kaum noch bezahlen. Die Lebensmittelpreise explodieren, Familien müssen jeden Euro und Cent zusammenhalten, damit sie den Wocheneinkauf gestemmt kriegen.
Die Menschen können sich das Leben nicht mehr leisten, aber damit will sich der EU-Rat nicht befassen. Und in Frankreich streiken genau jetzt und heute wieder Schüler und Studierende für ihre Zukunft und gegen den Sparhammer, keine Regierung, die noch bei Verstand ist, kürzt an der Bildung der jungen Menschen und damit bei denjenigen, die unsere Zukunft sind, die Regierung Macron hat abgewirtschaftet, Frankreich braucht eine klare soziale und antifaschistische Perspektive. Und bald stehen Wahlen in Spanien, in Frankreich, in Italien, in Polen, in Griechenland, in Finnland an und die Linke ist bereit für diesen Kampf, weil wir mit den Menschen für ein bezahlbares Leben kämpfen, weil wir die Zukunft unserer Jugend sichern wollen. Vielen Dank.
Thank you, Mr. Schirdewan, and now for the ECR Group, its chair, René Aust, one and a half minutes.
René Aust
Zwei deutsche Forscher haben den Nobelpreis für Medizin erhalten. Herzlichen Glückwunsch, und ich finde, dieser Nobelpreis zeigt noch mehr, nämlich was in unserem Land und auf unserem Kontinent mit unseren Kulturen, unserer Wissenschaftstradition und unserer Forschungsinfrastruktur noch immer möglich ist. So stellen wir uns Deutschland und Europa im Jahr 2050 vor.
Ein Land und Kontinent, in dem wir Krankheiten heilen können, die heute noch als unheilbar gelten, weil die besten Forscher der Welt bei uns arbeiten. In dem neue Kernkraftwerke zuverlässig Energie liefern und Strom für unsere Industrie und unsere Familien wieder bezahlbar ist. Umso bemerkenswerter, dass Frau von der Leyen auch heute wieder die Kernkraft lobend hervorgehoben hat. Als CDU-Mitglied hat sie in der Regierung den beschleunigten Ausstieg mitbeschlossen und die CSU in Bayern, die baut den Rückbau voran von Kernkraftwerken, was den Wiedereinstieg schwieriger macht in der Zukunft. Kernkraft und Zukunft gibt es eben nur mit der AfD.
Stellen wir uns vor, Roboter in Fabriken der Zukunft, die unsere Fabriken produktiver machen und Millionen von Mechatronikern, Technikern, Ingenieuren Arbeit geben, weil sie diese Maschinen und Roboter bauen, programmieren und warten. All das ist möglich, wenn Schluss ist mit dem Glauben, dass Politik aus Brüssel unsere Zukunft besser gestalten kann als wir selbst. Es muss Schluss sein mit den Fesseln aus Bürokratie, übervorsichtigen Vorschriften und Verboten, damit die Bürger wieder selbstständig tätig sein können als Forscher, als Erfinder, mit Investition und mutig sein können, um die Zukunft zu erreichen. Im Übrigen, Frau von der Leyen, Sie sagten gerade eben: "Long live Europe". Ich möchte das ergänzen: Lang leben die Völker Europas.
Dolors Montserrat
Gracias, presidenta. Los objetivos y el presupuesto deben ser ambiciosos, son la única vía para ser competitivos, ganar en innovación, tener un mix energético para garantizar nuestra soberanía y el futuro de los jóvenes, con empleo de calidad y vivienda, sin olvidar la PAC, la pesca y la cohesión. Nuevos acuerdos comerciales y completar la gran asignatura pendiente, el mercado único, son nuestras herramientas geopolíticas en un mundo cada vez más hostil. Avancemos hacia la unión para el ahorro y la inversión, para que las empresas, autónomos y familias se financien y escalen sin trabas. Eliminemos burocracia a todos los niveles, porque simplificar en Europa mientras los gobiernos nacionales regulan más es trasladar la burocracia de una mesa a otra.
Si Europa quiere ser una superpotencia, debe competir como tal, no fragmentada en 27 mercados, sino unida. Esta unidad que hemos logrado, por ejemplo, en el pacto migratorio, en el reglamento de retornos. Europa ha entendido que no hay soberanía sin fronteras seguras y que solo Europa decide quién entra en Europa. Por eso Ceuta no está sola y por eso fracasan los autócratas como Sánchez. Todo va a cambiar el 29 de noviembre.
España dejará atrás por fin ocho años de fracasos, de corrupción y de alianzas con nuestros enemigos para volver al lugar que nunca debió abandonar, en el corazón de Europa, con un gobierno digno y con un presidente decente y con todos los españoles votando en las urnas. Muchísimas gracias.
Kathleen Van Brempt
Thank you very much, Chair, Commissioner. You would almost forget, Council, sorry. Sorry. You would almost forget that enlargement is on your agenda. And dear colleagues, enlargement is not just a nice thing to have or tick the box exercise.
It's essential for the future of our continent and our European Union. And it's time for us in Europe to deliver. Keeping countries endless in the waiting room weakens democratic forces, it undermines the trust in the EU and it creates space for Russia and other anti-democratic forces. We need four things: a credible timeline, so no endless waiting; no unanimity for every step; a faster, gradual integration. If you meet conditions, you need already benefit from closer integration and gradually from full membership.
And fourth, Europe must uphold its social model as a guarantee of prosperity. And there is one red line for our political group, and that is no compromise on the rule of law, democracy and European values. Thank you.
Harald Vilimsky
Jetzt mal ehrlich, ist es Ihnen nicht zu dämlich, hier rauszugehen und sich selbst zu beweihräuchern, während den Menschen draußen das Geld zum Leben fehlt, während die Preise explodieren, die Energiekosten ins Unermessliche gehen, Arbeitslosigkeit und Konkurse immer weiter nach oben gehen? Sie kommen hier raus, geben noch ein Bussi-Bussi der Kommissionspräsidentin, lassen Weinflaschen für die Kommissionspräsidentin da. Das ist ein klägliches Scheitern Ihrer Politik. Das ist ein Totalversagen, das Sie hier dokumentieren. Und wenn Sie die Ratssitzung jetzt hier im Auge haben und das diskutieren und debattieren, was seit Jahr und Tag debattiert wird, und es immer und immer schlechter wird, von der Wettbewerbsfähigkeit bis zur Migration, kann ich nur sagen: Das einzig Richtige wäre, demissionieren Sie.
Machen Sie Platz für eine Politik, die eine andere ist als die Ihre. 27 Kommissare haben Sie, völlig aufgeblasen. 18 sollten und dürften es sein nach Lissabon. Jetzt wollen Sie weitere zwei Kommissare machen, das Ganze noch mehr aufblasen. Das ist der falsche Weg.
Und der Kurs, den Sie fahren, da ist die Titanic noch ein sicheres Schiff dagegen und ein guter Kurs. Das, was Sie tun, führt diesen Kontinent in den Abgrund.
I give the floor next to Beata Szydło, one minute.
Beata Szydło
Dziękuję bardzo, panie przewodniczący, szanowni państwo. Wieloletnie ramy finansowe mają, wnioskując z wypowiedzi pani przewodniczącej von der Leyen, po raz kolejny stać się po prostu narzędziem do wprowadzania zielonego szaleństwa i ideologizacji Unii Europejskiej. No tak nie może być. Jeżeli one mają działać i jeżeli te pieniądze mają sensownie być wydawane, a dzisiaj Europa potrzebuje inwestycji, potrzebują rodziny europejskie wsparcia, to te pieniądze muszą być wydawane mądrze i nie można powielać błędów, które robiło się przez tyle lat. Przecież to nic innego, tylko Zielony Ład i ETS wykończył europejski przemysł.
Dzisiaj tworzymy, tworzycie państwo fundusz konkurencyjności, który ma wspierać upadające przedsiębiorstwa europejskie. Ale dlaczego one mają problem? Mają problem przez błędną politykę Unii Europejskiej. I można tak wymieniać w nieskończoność. Co oznacza nowe zasoby finansowe, o których mówi tutaj pani przewodnicząca?
No nic innego, tylko podatki. Kto za to płaci?
Kto za to zapłaci? Europejczycy. Tą drogą naprawdę nie wyjdziemy z kryzysu, w którym tkwi Unia Europejska. Dziękuję bardzo.
Billy Kelleher
Council, I welcome this debate. Security defense is a priority, energy independence, enlargement, and ensuring that we remain competitive or build our competitiveness back. These are all key important factors for the European Union. However, a lot of threats to the European Union come from within Council. And that is an area that we have to address through the multiannual financial framework.
We have to ensure that there's a budget that delivers for citizens. We simply can't have a situation where we're trying to explain to citizens over the next number of years that Europe simply hasn't the capacity to deliver in real tangible terms.
So I would urge the Council to come forward with a proposal that is meaningful in terms of underpinning not just the values of the European Union in words, but in actions and with support and finance. We talk about cohesion funding, we talk about the common agricultural policy, but clearly if we can't fund schemes that have underpinned the cohesion of the European Union for the last 40 years, well then we will politically undermine it. So I urge that a budget is brought forward that will at least allow us to support citizens and underpin the values of the European Union through financial measures.
Thank you, Mr. Kelleher. Now Reinier van Lanschot, one minute.
Reinier Van Lanschot
Council, colleagues, imagine a comet heading to Earth. Instead of trying to stop it, leaders say, "Nah, it's not a priority this quarter." Isn't there a chance it could destroy Earth? Maybe, but it's full of gold and diamonds, and if we don't get it, say the Americans, the Chinese will get it first. This doesn't only resemble the movie Don't Look Up, it also sums up the sad state of the current AI debate.
Even if the end of humanity claims are overblown, and I believe they are, there's still plenty to worry about: increased cybercrime, climate change, democratic erosion, autonomous warfare, lost jobs, a market crash when the AI bubble bursts, and our dependence on foreign tech. This desperately needs a new voice, and Europe can become that voice, but it's not even on the agenda of the next Council summit.
We urge the Council to look up, organize a dedicated summit and make a plan around one single question: how does Europe make AI that benefits humanity? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Lans Van Lanschot. Now Kathleen Funchion, one minute.
Kathleen Funchion
Go raibh maith agat, a Uachtaráin, agus fáilte ar ais. I want to begin by sending solidarity to the residents and the community of the Garvaghy Road in the north of Ireland. Their courage and determination in standing up for and protecting their community has prevented a sectarian and a hateful Orange Order march from proceeding down the Garvaghy Road. But let us be very clear: this situation should never have arisen in the first place. Twenty-eight years of peace was not a problem that needed to be solved.
And we are not going back to the past in the north of Ireland. The days of second-class citizenship for nationalists are over. It is now time for this Parliament, and particularly I urge the Council in their upcoming meeting, to send a strong and unequivocal message to the North Secretary of State: this march cannot and should not go ahead. And this Parliament should stand resolutely with the residents and the community of the Garvaghy Road with their right to live in peace and with the principles that have underpinned the peace process for the past twenty-eight years. Go raibh maith agat.
Thank you.
Next is Stanisław Tyszka, one and a half minutes.
Stanisław Tyszka
Dziękuję, pani przewodnicząca. Mają państwo niezwykły talent. Najpierw uchwalacie przepisy, które dławią przedsiębiorców, a potem debatujecie, dlaczego gospodarka traci konkurencyjność. Najnowszy przykład to unijne przepisy o opakowaniach. Mała firma musi opłacać przedstawicieli do spraw opakowań w każdym kraju Unii, do którego wysyła produkty, nawet przy kilku zamówieniach rocznie.
To koszt tysięcy euro rocznie. Efekty: żaglownia z Giżycka po 35 latach zapowiada zawieszenie działalności. Polska pracownia szyjąca lalki rezygnuje z wysyłek do innych państw Unii. Warszawska marka kostiumów kąpielowych także wstrzymuje wysyłki zagraniczne. Przedsiębiorca ma produkować, sprzedawać i zarabiać.
Wy każecie mu utrzymywać zbędnych pośredników. Korporacja rozłoży te koszty na miliony przesyłek, małą firmę takie koszty wypychają z rynku. Tak piszecie prawo pod wielkich kosztem małych. I już w maju ubiegłego roku Komisja przyznała, że te obowiązki szkodzą firmom. Przypominam, że Komisja zatrudnia armię ponad 30 tysięcy biurokratów i przez 16 miesięcy nie potrafiła naprawić bubla prawnego, który sama wyprodukowała.
Prosta poprawka utknęła w procesie legislacyjnym i nie wiadomo, czy w ogóle przejdzie, a firmy mają płacić i cierpliwie czekać.
Dlatego pensje w Komisji należy wstrzymać, dopóki te przepisy nie zostaną poprawione. Bohatersko walczycie z problemami, które sami stworzyliście, a koszty ponoszą przedsiębiorcy, którzy was utrzymują. Niech żyje Europa suwerennych narodów, precz z Komisją Europejską.
Fernand Kartheiser
Merci, Madame le Président. Je propose de renommer le Conseil européen, l'assemblée de nos chefs d'État et de gouvernement, en Conseil ukrainien et de remplacer son président, Monsieur Costa, par Monsieur Zelensky. En effet, le Conseil européen se fiche visiblement des citoyens européens et de leurs problèmes. Dans son projet de conclusion, il consacre exactement 12 lignes à la compétitivité et une ligne à la crise migratoire. L'Ukraine, en revanche, a droit à 104 lignes plus 64 au titre de la défense.
En résumé, 168 lignes de soutien inconditionnel à Monsieur Zelensky et 13 lignes pour les soucis quotidiens de nos citoyens. Comme nous n'avons plus les moyens pour financer cette guerre, il faut enfin parler de diplomatie et négocier avec la Russie.
Malheureusement, le Conseil européen préfère encore négliger les problèmes des Européens au profit du régime corrompu de Monsieur Zelensky. Dans beaucoup de nos pays, on entend réduire les prestations sociales ou les pensions. Il n'en saurait être question. Merci.
Merci. Now Tomas Tobé, one and a half minutes.
Tomas Tobé
President, colleagues, hybrid attacks across Europe have unfortunately become the new normal. We face sabotage, cyberattacks, foreign interference and disinformation campaigns on a daily basis. Hostile actors like Russia and Iran seek to undermine our security and democracy. The message from the European Council must therefore be clear. Europe cannot continue to be reactive.
We must counter hybrid threats. First, we need a stronger cooperation at European level. Europol has a crucial role to play in supporting member states. This must be reflected in the agency's updated mandate. And secondly, we must strengthen our defense.
Europol has a crucial role to play in supporting member states. This must be reflected in the agency's updated mandate. And secondly, we must strengthen our defense. This means of course continuing supporting Ukraine, but it also means strengthening Europe's military capabilities. We need a strong European pillar of defense.
And thirdly, we also must make sure that we have a proper and strong response when it comes to protecting our democracy. We need a European democracy shield that actually means that we are protecting our elections and our democratic systems. This house has demanded a strong response to hybrid threats. Now it's time for the Council to step up and protect Europe. Thank you.
Roberta Metsola
Mr. Tobé, do you want a blue card? Will you take a blue card from Mr. Sieper? Mr. Sieper, go ahead.
Thank you, dear colleague, that you have accepted the blue card.
And as you rightfully said, also our democratic system is attacked by Russia and other foreign powers. Would you agree with me that in this light, whenever a certain party or a political force in Europe is collaborating with Russia, is financed by Russia, is connected to Russia, that any democratic party should in no matter, be it energy, be it social security, be it migration, work together with those forces? Thank you.
Tomas Tobé
Thank you, colleague Sieper, for your question. I think it is very important that all pro-European groups work when it comes to supporting Ukraine, to support a stronger Europe. And of course, we need to strengthen that cooperation in this house. But if colleague Sieper means that the EPP group could never vote for stronger borders on migration, or we could support more investments in both renewables or nuclear, just because one colleague from one of these forces vote in the same way, my answer is no. I think the most important thing is to continue to work for a strong Europe.
Thank you.
Gracias, presidenta, presidente, comisario. Señorías, a los llamados países frugales, o mejor dicho, a sus respectivos gobiernos, los socialistas españoles les decimos que tenemos hambre de más Europa, que no podemos hacer más política europea con menos recursos.
Javier Moreno Sánchez
Los frugales marcan como sus prioridades la seguridad y la defensa, la competitividad, la innovación y la lucha contra la inmigración irregular. Los socialistas queremos además responder a las expectativas de la ciudadanía y a los nuevos desafíos, manteniendo la cohesión social y territorial, las políticas tradicionales como la PAC, que son los pilares de la construcción europea. Y además defendemos la migración regular, que es necesaria y positiva. Y si hemos decidido avanzar hacia un destino común, no podemos pensar en términos nacionales. Debemos más que nunca mancomunar recursos y apostar por los recursos propios, como el gravamen sobre las grandes plataformas digitales, los juegos de azar en línea o los criptoactivos.
Señoría, sin voluntad política y sin ambición presupuestaria, la Unión puede quedarse fuera del mapa mundial con unas sociedades cada vez más desiguales, empobrecidas y polarizadas. Son tiempos de valentía política y presupuestaria.
Sì, se la signora von der Leyen fosse rimasta in aula, le avrei detto che siamo alle solite: chi crea i problemi dopo viene in quest'aula anche a spiegarci come, come risolverli. Dobbiamo riconoscere che c'è un immobilismo nell'attuale crisi energetica dell'Unione nella gestione della crisi del gas.
Paolo Borchia
Va fatta anche una riflessione su quello che è lo scarso peso, la scarsa capacità dell'Unione nel ridisegnare le geografie degli shock energetici e nelle dinamiche delle relazioni tra gli Stati. Guardiamo, ad esempio, gli Stati Uniti. Abbiamo un sistema energetico che una volta era importatore di energia che invece adesso funziona ed è diventato esportatore e che ha anche la capacità di resistere a tutti questi shock esterni. Avrei voluto anche ricordare alla signora von der Leyen che una volta c'era uno spread, un differenziale del 30% tra il prezzo del petrolio greggio e quello che si pagava alla pompa. Invece adesso, a causa del fatto che l'Unione ha depresso gli investimenti sulle raffinerie, noi ci troviamo che questo spread è il doppio.
Quindi si paga praticamente il doppio la benzina rispetto a quello che è il prezzo del greggio. Pensiamo agli Stati Uniti, pensiamo alle altre economie e avremo un quadro chiaro. Gli altri galoppano, in Europa, come sempre, si passeggia.
En avril dernier, ce Parlement a adopté le rapport de mon collègue Carlo Fidanza sur l'élevage. Réduction de notre dépendance aux protéines importées, défense des paiements directs aux agriculteurs, accès au foncier et au crédit. Mais depuis, qu'a fait Madame von der Leyen de ces recommandations ?
Marion Maréchal
Dans cette institution, la souveraineté agricole est un slogan, ça n'est pas une politique réelle. Après le Mercosur et les contraintes intenables du pacte vert, elle envisage aujourd'hui de réduire de 87 milliards d'euros le budget garanti à notre agriculture, en passant de 387 à 300 milliards. Pire, elle proposerait d'instaurer une PAC mise en concurrence avec d'autres politiques nationales. En France, l'été 2024 a été dévastateur. Des pertes de rendement atteignant 50 % dans certains territoires et un déficit de 40 % de la pousse des prairies.
La récolte de maïs pourrait être la plus faible depuis 1980. Dans les Deux-Sèvres et en Charente-Maritime, 64 % des agriculteurs interrogés envisagent d'arrêter leur activité. Alors combien de chiffres faudra-t-il encore à la Commission pour écouter la détresse de nos paysans ?
Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, Council. The last time we met in this chamber, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney was among us. And he talked about Europe and Canada being much stronger together, together with the other middle powers, to preserve a world order based on our values, an order that served us so well and gave us prosperity.
And Mark Carney emphasized the strength of togetherness, not what could divide us. And what a contrast with the European Council. On the future budget, on enlargement and reforms, on competitiveness, our member states seem to focus more on their differences than on their common strength. And we all know the EU needs a more modern and bigger budget, so get it done. We all know we need to take new members up and we need institutional reforms, so get it done.
And we all know that only a truly European approach will make our economy stronger, so get it done. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Mr. Gerbrandy. You have a blue card. I don't know if you want to accept it coming from Mr. Van Lanschot for one minute. No.
Reinier Van Lanschot
Meneer Gerbrandy, wat ben ik blij om te horen dat u pleit voor een grotere EU-begroting. Want zoals ik las in het verkiezingsprogramma van D66: het is tijd voor Europese oplossingen. D66 neemt het voortouw in Europa. Die Europese oplossingen kosten geld, maar het levert wat op en daarom verdubbelen we de EU-begroting.
Nu komt Von der Leyen met een voorstel om het van 1,13 naar 1,26% te verhogen. Dat is een verhoging van 0,16%. Dat is niks. Hoe gaan we ooit die Europese oplossingen in de praktijk brengen als uw eigen partij de gierigste van de gierige landen is?
Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy
Ja, dank voor de vraag, meneer Van Lanschot. Dat ziet u helemaal verkeerd, want als u goed naar mijn partij luistert, dan zijn we absoluut niet gierig. Wat D66 wil is dat er een uitruil komt tussen een hogere begroting, maar zeker ook een hele sterke hervorming van de huidige begroting. We moeten ons richten op de uitdagingen van morgen en niet op die van gisteren. En die hervormingen in een uitruil voor een hogere begroting, dat is waar wij ons op focussen en dat is ook waar ik de Europese Raad toe oproep om dat voor elkaar te krijgen.
Dank u wel. Ik ben het helemaal eens: die Europese begroting moet hervormd worden. En ik ben er ook groot voorstander van dat we goed kijken naar hoe dat geld besteed wordt. Dat kan en moet beter. Maar toch, de discrepantie tussen een verdubbeling en nu tegen een minuscule vergroting zijn is enorm.
Hoe rijmt u dat met elkaar?
Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy
Nou, dat heb ik u net ook uitgelegd.
Wij zijn helemaal niet tegen een forse verhoging van deze begroting. Daarom heeft D66 ook voor het standpunt van het Europees Parlement gestemd in de in onze visie op de Europese begroting. Dus ik weet niet waar u dat vandaan haalt. Een premier spreekt namens een heel kabinet, ik spreek namens D66.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Prebilic for one minute after this lively conversation.
Vladimir Prebilič
Spoštovani predstavniki Sveta. Pred zasedanjem želim sporočiti dve temeljni opozorili. Prvič, kohezijska politika ne sme biti predmet pogajanj. Zmanjšanje sredstev za kohezijo, da bi z njimi financirali nove prednostne naloge, kot je obramba, bi pomenilo, da bodo revnejši plačali za varnost bogatejših. Že danes je razmerje med razvitimi in nerazvitimi regijami ena proti pet, zato številni upravičeno menijo, da jih je Evropska unija preprosto pozabila.
Zato nevarnost za Evropsko unijo ni zunaj nje, ampak v evroskepticizmu znotraj nje. Drugič, pripravite se za širitev Evropske unije.
Če bomo še naprej odlašali, bomo Zahodni Balkan dokončno izgubili. Medtem ko oklevamo, se Srbija, Bosna in Hercegovina in Severna Makedonija oddaljujejo od nas. Črni gori je potrebno določiti kristalno jasen datum za širitev in pristop. Brez širitve Evropske unije na Zahodnem Balkanu imamo samo še več nacionalizma. Če Evropska unija ne bo zapolnila tega prostora, bodo to praznino zapolnili drugi.
Li Andersson
So, the energy crisis is here again, and we warned that this would be one of the consequences of Trump's illegal attack on Iran. Now Georgia Meloni is pushing for new exemptions to the EU fiscal rules, asking the question of why defense investment get differential treatment while energy crisis measures do not. It is a fair question, but however, she is a perfect example of how it is the same politicians who want to weaken our climate policies and maintain our fossil fuel dependence that now want to pour more public money into fossil fuel subsidies.
Multinational oil majors' profits have doubled since the start of the Iran war. They must be made to pay a part of the bill and help address the fundamental problem, which is our dependency on imported fossil energy. So yes, please decide to change the fiscal rules, but do it to enable investment in renewable energy and in electrification so we don't have to encounter the same energy crisis over and over again.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Pereira for one minute and a half.
Lídia Pereira
Sr. Presidente, Sr. Comissário e Sr. Ministro. 45% é a tarifa equivalente que as empresas europeias pagam todos os dias, não em Washington, não em Pequim, mas dentro das nossas próprias fronteiras. E nos serviços, esse número ultrapassa os 100%. 45%. Passámos meses a negociar com Washington um teto de 15% e esquecemo-nos que as maiores barreiras ao comércio europeu fomos nós a construí-las.
O nosso maior adversário na competitividade chama-se mercado interno incompleto. O EU-INC é um passo concreto para as derrubar, mas transformar o 28º regime numa diretiva é voltar ao ponto de partida. É criar 27 versões de uma solução pensada para resolver 27 versões. Queremos um regime único, opcional para quem empreende, obrigatório para quem governa. Em março, os chefes de governo e de Estado fizeram dele uma prioridade.
E, portanto, eu peço-lhes agora que levem essa ambição até ao fim, até ao final do ano. Mas sejamos claros, senhor Comissário, se o EU-INC for esvaziado do seu propósito, se deixar de ser um regime verdadeiramente europeu, igual em Coimbra ou em Copenhaga, então mais vale retirar a proposta. Um 28º regime que se transforma num 28º labirinto não serve nenhuma empresa, serve apenas para fingirmos que fizemos alguma coisa. Porque na corrida pela competitividade, a Europa não perde para os Estados Unidos nem para a China, perde para si própria. Muito obrigada.
João Oliveira
Senhora deputada Lídia Pereira, falando de competitividade, a pergunta que lhe faço é: não acha que era tempo de a União Europeia e os governos nacionais intervirem nos preços da energia e dos combustíveis, controlando os preços e enfrentando as multinacionais que estão a procurar acumular lucros utilizando a guerra como pretexto? É que a senhora presidente da Comissão Europeia já reconheceu que o aumento dos preços em consequência da guerra dos Estados Unidos contra o Irão já significou 90 mil milhões de euros pagos pelos povos no aumento dos preços. Não acha que era tempo de se intervir nessa matéria e particularmente o Conselho Europeu devia fazer disso uma prioridade que está completamente ausente da agenda da próxima reunião?
Obrigado, Presidente.
Lídia Pereira
Muito obrigada, senhor deputado, pela pergunta. Senhor deputado, eu sou insuspeita defensora da transição energética. Tenho defendido neste plenário nos últimos sete anos que é essencial que nós transitemos para um mercado que não esteja dependente de outros mercados para funcionar e que não ponha em causa a competitividade europeia. Se há coisa que mais defendo é a proatividade do presidente do Conselho Europeu e que passe a trabalhar como um verdadeiro presidente e não como um secretário-geral. Portanto, se não está na agenda, é uma coisa que o senhor presidente António Costa devia, de facto, empreender e colocar à consideração dos chefes de Estado.
Precisamos mesmo de resolver o problema que temos do mercado energético europeu. Não é um verdadeiro mercado. É um mercado fragmentado e para o qual só podemos resolver se tivermos, se empreendermos na transição energética e, como a senhora presidente da Comissão aqui disse, não desviarmos o caminho que temos percorrido até hoje. Muito obrigada.
Nicola Zingaretti
Paese dell'Appennino ha un tetto nuovo grazie ai fondi europei. Un comune potrebbe avere le case popolari grazie ai fondi europei. E un agricoltore potrebbe avere un trattore grazie ai fondi europei. E ora i governi di destra ci dicono dobbiamo tagliare il bilancio, scegliete quale dei tre tagliamo. Noi diciamo no, la risposta e la domanda è sbagliata.
Perché dovremmo scegliere? Perché dovremmo scegliere di tagliare qualcosa di queste tre opportunità? Quelle stesse destre poi bloccano ogni nuova entrata europea. Sovranisti con tutti eccetto che con i giganti del web. Noi diciamo debito comune e contribuisca chi oggi non lo fa.
Grandi piattaforme digitali, gioco d'azzardo online, criptoattività. Fino a 32 miliardi di euro ogni anno. Così non si sceglie tra la casa, la scuola, il trattore, si tengono tutti e tre. Così non si uccide la speranza di farcela, ma si ridà fiducia nei confronti di chi la fiducia l'ha persa. Commissione, dovete avere coraggio.
E ai governi diciamo si può fare, si può avere coraggio e dobbiamo farlo.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Andriessen for one minute.
Mieke Andriese
Voorzitter, Nexit is de enige optie voor Nederland. Mijn partij, de Partij voor de Vrijheid, heeft even gehoopt dat er hervormingen binnen de Europese Unie mogelijk waren. Het tegenovergestelde bleek waar te zijn. Nederland lijdt immers onder het wanbeleid van andere lidstaten. Zo beloont de socialistische regering in Madrid op grote schaal illegalen met een verblijfsvergunning, die daardoor zonder onze instemming naar Nederland kunnen afreizen.
Het wanbeleid van de andere lidstaten raakt tevens onze welvaart. Terwijl Nederland bezuinigt om de pensioenen en de sociale zekerheid betaalbaar te houden, weigeren andere lidstaten hetzelfde te doen en draait de Nederlandse belastingbetaler op voor de schulden en risico's van andere eurolanden. Ondertussen holt de levensstandaard van de Nederlander hard achteruit en blijven de bodemloze utopieën van de EU ons miljarden kosten. Dit is waarom wij de zeggenschap over onze grenzen, ons geld en ons beleid willen terugnemen en waarom de Partij voor de Vrijheid terugkeert naar haar Nexit-standpunt. De bevolking van IJsland had gelijk toen zij de EU afwees.
Ook Nederlanders moeten die keuze kunnen maken. Dank u.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Mrs. Andriesse. The next speaker is Mr. Van Overtveldt for one minute.
Johan Van Overtveldt
Voorzitter, commissaris, minister, waar het in de State of the Union aan ontbrak, hoop ik dat de Raad de focus terug voluit legt op productiviteit en concurrentievermogen. En dat wil zeggen deregulering die daadwerkelijk regels schrapt, een kapitaalmarktenunie die tot echte marktintegratie leidt, structureel lagere energieprijzen en meer ruimte voor investeringen, innovatie en groei. Maar al die inspanningen zijn een maat voor niets als onze bedrijven niet op een gelijk speelveld kunnen spelen. Europa is wat dat betreft veel te lang naïef geweest ten aanzien van China. China verstoort grondig het speelveld via vier structurele elementen: massale overheidssubsidies, afscherming van de eigen markt, kunstmatig ondergewaardeerde munt en grootschalige diefstal van intellectueel eigendom.
Wordt het geen tijd om eens ernstig na te denken over een heffing van 10% of meer op alle Chinese import? Moeten we daarbij rekening houden met forse tegenreacties? Waarschijnlijk wel, maar de prijs die we vandaag betalen voor passiviteit is zo mogelijk nog hoger. Dank u.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Cotrim de Figueiredo for one minute.
João Cotrim De Figueiredo
Thank you very much, Mr. President, Commissioner, the representative of the Council, Maria Thomas. Next week, the European Council will try to sort out all the problems on the agenda, so let me save you some time.
The source of all the problems is sitting around the table. Maybe you don't agree, so let me explain you why. On competitiveness, everybody plays Draghi in Latin and all that, but then Germany and France and others insist on reducing the scope of EU Inc. or drag their feet on a capital markets union. On Ukraine, we all stand with Ukraine, whatever it takes and all that, but then France and Luxembourg unashamedly use their veto power to remove Russian oligarchs from the sanction list. On the MFF, everyone agrees that Europe is lagging, that we must do much more, spend more and all that, but then many countries, including my own, refuse to budge on a budget.
On defense, yes, of course, Europe's defense and security must be autonomous and all that, as long as each national defense industry benefits most from this effort. On enlargement and reforms, the need is recognized unanimously, but it's that same unanimity that often blocks and delays these reforms and therefore hurts Europe. Ladies and gentlemen, it is said that the European Council is where ambition and reforms go to die. It's up to you to change that starting next week.
Javi López
Thank you very much. I don't see Mrs. Niebler, then we are going to move to Mr. Schieder for one minute.
Andreas Schieder
Schönen guten Morgen, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen.
Gerade diese Tage, wo auch der Europäische Rat stattfindet, sind für Europa entscheidend. Denken wir nur an die Meldung der deutschen Nachrichtendienste, die von einer massiven russischen Bedrohung gesprochen haben. Und das heißt, wir müssen unsere europäischen Werte entschlossen verteidigen. Und die sind Demokratie, Rechtsstaatlichkeit, Freiheit und Solidarität. Und gerade deshalb müssen wir auch der Ukraine weiter zur Seite stehen und den russischen Angriffskrieg, der sich ja nicht nur gegen die Ukraine richtet, sondern auch gegen die europäische Friedensordnung, endlich verstehen.
Und wir erleben diese russische hybride Kriegsführung: Desinformation, Cyberangriffe, Einflussnahme auf Wahlen, die in den EU-Mitgliedstaaten und in den Ländern, die auf dem Weg in die Europäische Union sind. Und deshalb ist die EU-Erweiterung auch eine Frage unserer Sicherheit. Denn wenn den Ländern des Westbalkans und anderen Beitrittskandidaten eine klare europäische Perspektive geben, dann stärken wir die Demokratie und die Stabilität. Die Erweiterung ist eine Erfolgsgeschichte und sie soll's bleiben. Wir wollen ein starkes, demokratisches und solidarisches Europa und eine Erweiterung, die Europa stärker und sicherer macht.
Anna Bryłka
Panie przewodniczący, szanowni państwo, to prawda, jesteśmy w bardzo ważnym punkcie negocjacji wieloletniego budżetu. Zwiększenie budżetu ponad dotychczasowy poziom i spłata pożyczki Next Generation EU powoduje, że Unia Europejska szuka nowych źródeł dochodu. Po pierwsze, jak nie ma pieniędzy, to trzeba ciąć wydatki, a nie tworzyć nowe zasoby własne. Po drugie, nie ma naszej zgody na unijne podatki. Po trzecie, nie ma naszej zgody na przekazywanie kolejnych kompetencji Unii, w tym przypadku kompetencji fiskalnych i ograniczanie suwerenności finansowej państw członkowskich.
Po czwarte, nie ma zgody na mechanizm warunkowości, czyli pieniądze za praworządność, bo to nic innego jak finansowy szantaż wobec rządów, które nie zgadzają się z obecnym kursem Unii. Negocjacje budżetu powinny zakończyć się po przyszłorocznych wyborach we Francji czy w Polsce, bo dopiero nowe rządy będą miały właściwy mandat. Szanowni państwo, trzeba powiedzieć to z całą mocą: ten budżet to kolejny etap federalizacji Unii Europejskiej i na to też nie ma naszej zgody. Dziękuję.
Thank you. They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Željana Zovko
And we will talk about the enlargement this week and we will have presented the enlargement strategy. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, we had a clear historical elections and finally legitimate representation in the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina. They are a bit slow on the progress, but because this position was occupied four times by somebody who was breaking Dayton Peace Agreements. So please, Irish Presidency, you who know power-sharing agreements, you must help Bosnia and Herzegovina. You must help now Darijana Filipović, the Croatian member, Croat member of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina, to put an order in the middle way between the two extremes.
And that we must seize this moment and help the country overcome the obstacles that have blocked the progress for too long. Reform of the electoral law remains essential. A roadmap for Bosnia and Herzegovina must include guarantees of legitimate representation and equality for all three constituent peoples. And if Council recognize enlargement as strategic and security interest, it must urgently open accession negotiations with Bosnia and Herzegovina. Our message must be clear: turn geopolitical commitments into concrete decision and give Bosnia and Herzegovina a credible path forward.
Don't make a difference, because in history, if you make a difference, it pays dearly. Thank you very much.
Javi López
We are going to move to the catch-the-eye. We have a lot of members that asked for the catch-the-eye and we are running out of time, then I will take a few, less than the half, and also the people who had blue cards, made a blue card, will not have catch-the-eye. To start, we are going to move to Mrs. Brešnjac for one minute.
Thank you very much, Mrs. Zovko.
Nikolina Brnjac
Poštovani povjereniče, drage kolegice i kolege. Svjesni smo da nam treba ambiciozni proračun, pogotovo za konkurentnost, priuštivo stanovanje i razvoj naših regija. No nije važno samo koliko novaca imamo, nego i koliko brzo on dolazi do ljudi. Novi europski fond za konkurentnost predloženih 450 milijardi eura jedinstvena je prilika za snažnija ulaganja u istraživanje, inovacije i kvalitetne projekte diljem naše Unije.
No konkurentnost moramo graditi u svim državama članicama. Iskustvo Obzora Europa, u kojem šest država koristi čak 40 % sredstava, upozorava na neravnoteže koje novi fond mora izbjeći. Kao izvjestiteljica EPP-a za taj fond u Odboru za regionalni razvoj, tražim geografsku ravnotežu i ravnomjerniji pristup svim sredstvima. Europa može ostvariti svoj puni potencijal samo ako kvalitetni projekti iz svih njezinih regija dobiju priliku. Hvala.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. López Aguilar for one minute.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Muchísimas gracias, presidente. Ministro Byrne, comisario Šefčovič, desde la Declaración de Granada adoptada en presidencia española en noviembre de 2023, la Unión Europea se ha emplazado a su ampliación. Y descartada Islandia en su propio referéndum, son nueve los Estados que están en la lista de espera. El primero de ellos, Montenegro, que ya está señalado por la presidencia irlandesa como inminente ratificación de la adhesión. Puede pensarse que Montenegro es asimilable, 600 000 habitantes, su producto interior bruto no producirá un gran seísmo.
¿Pero y los ocho que vienen detrás? La Unión Europea tiene que estar preparada. Y es el momento de insistir que no es posible acometer razonablemente esa ampliación en la que la Unión Europea puede pasar de ser de 27 a 36 sin reforma institucional de su decision-making y de su procedimiento legislativo que permita de una vez superar la regla bloqueadora de la unanimidad para que la Unión Europea tenga una voz audible en lugar de ser simplemente más ancha, pero al mismo tiempo más irrelevante y más impotente por su incapacidad de decidir. Gracias, presidente.
Javi López
Thank you very much Mr. López Aguilar. The next speaker is Mr. Giadi for one minute.
Geadis Geadi
Κυρία Πρόεδρε, ζητήσατε περισσότερα για άμυνα και ασφάλεια, αντιμετώπιση της παράνομης μετανάστευσης, στήριξη των ηλεκτρικών διασυνδέσεων για ενεργειακή αυτονομία από ευρωπαϊκές πηγές. Συμφωνούμε απόλυτα. Όσα δηλαδή δεν εφαρμόζονται στο κράτος μέλος της Ανατολικής Μεσογείου. Σιωπή όμως και πάλι για την Κύπρο και την Τουρκία. Διερωτώμαι κυρία Πρόεδρε, αν μία χώρα κατείχε το μισό Βερολίνο, μοίραζε στη μέση τη Γερμανία και είχατε συγγενείς επί 52 χρόνια αγνοούμενους, θα είχατε την ίδια στάση;
Δεν χρειάζεται να μου απαντήσετε. Ξέρουμε όλοι πολύ καλά την απάντηση. Αυτό φανερώνει την επιλεκτική ευαισθησία και κυρίως την υποκρισία σας. Κλείνοντας, πρόσφατα άκουσα δήλωση για τα Σκόπια με αναφορές σε γλώσσα και ταυτότητα μακεδονική. Φαντάζομαι εννοείτε τη βουλγαρική γλώσσα και την κλεμμένη ελληνική ταυτότητα και ιστορία.
Ντροπή σε εσάς κυρία Πρόεδρε και σε όσους σας έχουν στηρίξει να βρίσκεστε σε αυτήν τη θέση. Η ιστορία δεν παραχαράσσεται.
Kostas Papadakis
Η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση προωθεί σε όλα τα επίπεδα την κλιμάκωση στα δύο μέτωπα του ιμπεριαλιστικού πολέμου, την Ουκρανία και τη Μέση Ανατολή. Η κλιμάκωση πολεμικής εμπλοκής απέναντι στην καπιταλιστική Ρωσία, οι πλάτες στο κράτος-κατακτητή Ισραήλ, δεν συνιστά κάποιο εξωγενή παράγοντα, αλλά πηγή μεγάλων κινδύνων και ενεργειακής φτώχειας για το λαό. Εκατοντάδες δισεκατομμύρια συγκεντρώνονται στην πολεμική βιομηχανία και τα θηριώδη κέρδη των λεγόμενων πράσινων ενεργειακών ομίλων, που απολαμβάνουν προκλητικά ρήτρες διαφυγής και φοροαπαλλαγές, όσα λείπουν δηλαδή από μισθούς, συντάξεις, υγεία και παιδεία. Αδιανόητες στερήσεις, ακρίβεια για τις εργατικές λαϊκές οικογένειες που προκλητικά εμφανίζουν ως ανακούφιση πενταροδεκάρες που δεν βγάζουν κανέναν από τη φτώχεια στη βάση των ευρωενωσιακών δημοσιονομικών οροφών και ματωμένων πλεονασμάτων, την κοστολόγηση κυβέρνησης και αστικών κομμάτων. Οι λαοί δεν θα αποδεχθούν θυσίες για τον πόλεμο και τα κέρδη των καπιταλιστών.
Εκατοντάδες χιλιάδες βγαίνουν στο δρόμο σε όλη την Ευρώπη, στην Ελλάδα ενάντια στην επίσκεψη του γερακιού του πολέμου Ρούμπιο, δυναμώνοντας τον μόνο δρόμο και διέξοδο της συνολικής ανατροπής.
Stine Bosse
Thank you very much.
I want to address this directly to the Presidency of the Council. You need to be bold and brave together, and the majority of this House is ready to act together with you. Times of just talking about security and defense has to be over. We must invest. Times of just talking about our independence on energy supply must be over.
We must act to get the basis of our independence correct. This means competitiveness and it means affordable energy to all. We need to see all countries stepping up together. We are very strong, but only when we act together. This is of course why we are under attack.
But we need to see much more courage coming out of the Council. Please, let's all remember this. We need our own income stream. We need to build up our own income stream and finances. And finally, as my colleague also alluded to, Inc, EU Inc has to come through.
Thank you.
We need our own income stream. We need to build up our own income stream and finances. And finally, as my colleague also alluded to, Inc, EU Inc has to come through. Thank you.
Dariusz Joński
Bardzo dziękuję, panie przewodniczący. Szanowni państwo, bardzo ważna październikowa Rada Europejska przed nami. I trzy tematy. Po pierwsze bezpieczeństwo, po drugie konkurencyjność, a po trzecie budżet. Jeśli chodzi o bezpieczeństwo, zrobiliśmy bardzo wiele.
Krok milowy, trzy programy finansowe, które zostały uruchomione, dzięki temu jesteśmy bezpieczniejsi. Ale jako współsprawozdawca projektu Military Mobility, mobilności wojskowej, apeluję do Rady o przyspieszenie prac, bo nie mamy czasu. Musimy wprowadzić wojskowe Schengen tu i teraz. Jeśli chodzi o konkurencyjność, trwa wyścig technologiczny na całym świecie. Kto będzie miał tańszą energię, wygra ten wyścig.
Patrzę na Chiny, patrzę na Stany Zjednoczone. I cieszy oczywiście, że produkcja energii z wiatru i słońca więcej niż z innych źródeł daje już i to bardzo cieszy, ale musimy więcej inwestować. I przechodzę do kwestii budżetu. To nie jest czas na cięcia. My musimy przyspieszyć.
Jeśli chcemy wygrać ten wyścig, nawet w kontekście energii, musimy przyspieszyć. Dlatego też apeluję, żeby wycofały się te kraje, które jeszcze myślą o tym, żeby w tym nowym budżecie 28-34 ciąć budżet. To nie ten czas. Dziękuję.
Thank you very much.
Javi López
And the next speaker and the last speaker is Mrs. Grapini for one minute.
Maria Grapini
Domnule președinte, domnule comisar, intervenția doamnei președintă Ursula von der Leyen a fost plină de contradicții. Vorbim de un nou exercițiu financiar pe șapte ani și spunea domnia sa că rezerva agricolă este goală, dar în același timp renunță la politica agricolă comună, nu mai avem un buget pentru agricultură, nu ține cont de inflație și ne spunea că e același buget. Nu putem avea competitivitate despre care tot vorbim dacă nu avem bugete, dacă nu avem predictibilitate, dacă IMM-urile nu se pot dezvolta, dacă reindustrializarea nu are loc. Și atunci despre ce Europă vorbim? Europa fierbe.
Nu mai vrem Europa cu două viteze. Nu mai vrem cetățeni, societate polarizată. Nu mai vrem cetățeni săraci. Pentru aceasta ne trebuie, domnule comisar, să acționăm urgent. Există mai departe evaziune.
De ce nu impozităm marile companii cu profituri absolut astronomice ca să putem să avem buget pentru a crește la fermieri subvenția, pentru a crește fondurile pentru coeziune, pentru că de coeziune vorbim de când este Uniunea Europeană și totuși nu avem coeziune. Mulțumesc.
Javi López
Thank you very much. And now it's time for the European Commission.
Commissioner Šefčovič, you have the floor. Thank you very much.
Maroš Šefčovič
Thank you very much, Mr. President, honorable Minister, honorable members of the European Parliament. I would like to thank you for all your interventions, many of which would definitely contribute to the final preparation of the next European Council. You highlighted the importance of enlargement, of housing problem across the Europe, of the close link between energy and competitiveness and of course the perspective for conclusion of multi-annual financial framework. As you know, according to the new rules, I was only given two minutes, so let me focus just on two points. We all agree on close link between housing, energy prices, energy supplies and competitiveness of European Union.
As you know, there are different proposals on the table, but also many of them in the making.
Some of them will be discussed even today in different plenary debates, some of them in the course of this week. And therefore, I just would like to underscore once again that multiannual financial framework is absolute top priority, I believe, for all of us. I know how difficult these negotiations always are, but we should not lose the big picture here. Because we are talking about 1.26% of European GNI and which on top of it is always bringing much higher added value compared to the similar investments if they are made only on the national level. And I also would like to highlight that we know how much Irish presidency is focused on this priority.
And we all know that we have to do our utmost to make sure that we would start the new budgetary period with a budget which fit to the 21st century and which responds to the huge challenges of today. Thank you very much, Mr. President.
Thomas Byrne
Thank you, I'll speak in Irish. A Leas-Uachtaráin, a bhaill de Pharlaimint na hEorpa, a Choimisinéir Šefčovič, tá mé fíorbhuíoch díobh go léir as gach a tá ráite sa díospóireacht seo inniu agaibh.
Cuirfidh mé gach rud in iúl d'Uachtarán na Comhairle Eorpaí. Tá láncheisteanna tábhachtacha ardaithe sa díospóireacht seo. Tá ár gclár oibre leathan, tá sé dúshlánach, pléifidh na ceannairí agus tabharfaidh siad treoir ar ábhair an-éagsúla: cúrsaí fuinnimh, an creat ilbhliantúil airgeadais, imirce, méadú an Aontais Eorpaigh agus cosaint Eorpach agus slándáil na hEorpa freisin. In gach réimse den obair, ní mór dúinn oibriú le chéile gur féidir linn déileáil leis na dúshláin atá os ár gcomhair amach agus ionas gur féidir linn ár n-geallúintí a chomhlíonadh. Mo bhuíochas libh arís agus go raibh míle maith agaibh as gach rud atá ráite agaibh inniu.
Go raibh maith agaibh.
Javi López
Thank you very much. With this, the debate is closed and the sitting is suspended. It will resume in a few minutes with the This is Europe debate with Mr. Luís Montenegro, Prime Minister of Portugal. Thank you very much.
The Prime Minister of Portugal, His Excellency Luís Montenegro.
Roberta Metsola
Dear colleagues, with us today is the Prime Minister of Portugal, Luís Montenegro, as part of our This is Europe series of debates. Prime Minister, dear Luís, welcome to the European Parliament. Thank you for being here. Let me begin by expressing our solidarity with everyone affected by the natural disasters in Portugal and paying tribute to the bravery and commitment of all emergency workers. And this summer, even while facing wildfires at home, Portuguese firefighters crossed the border to walk into fires in neighboring member states.
They represent the very best of Europe, and we thank them. Dear Prime Minister, this year we celebrate 40 years of Portugal in the European Union. Four decades of Portuguese leadership, of Portugal shaping our Union, and of our Union shaping Portugal. This Parliament shares your ambition for a more competitive Europe with less bureaucracy and more room for companies to grow, scale, and create jobs. We also share your determination to improve energy connections between Member States, and I know your work on the Iberian Peninsula reflects that.
Your energy security is part of international stability, and we welcome your focus on both as Portugal prepares to take its seat on the United Nations Security Council. Of course, delivering on this agenda means securing a budget that can support it. And that's why reaching an agreement on the next Multiannual Financial Framework is so urgent. Parliament and Portugal share a lot of common ground, and Prime Minister, we know we can rely on you to play a constructive role in the negotiations ahead.
It is fitting that the treaty that guides our Union bears the name of your capital. Portugal may sit on the western edge of our continent, but its place is at the very heart of our common project. And as we take the next steps on our common European journey, we will need to find our own Portuguese perseverance and persistence. This is how we keep building Europe, step by step, brick by brick, vote by vote. And here I will quote you when you say: "Água mole em pedra dura, tanto bate até que fura".
So without further ado, dear Prime Minister, dear Luís, the floor is yours.
Luís Montenegro
Muito bom dia a todos.
Quero em primeiro lugar agradecer à presidente Roberta Metsola o convite que me dirigiu para poder estar aqui, um convite que muito me honra e um convite que é também uma oportunidade para evocarmos, como acabou de também já de ser dito, a celebração dos 40 anos da adesão de Portugal ao projeto europeu. Diria para começar que esta adesão significou aquilo que era o nosso destino e a nossa vocação. E ainda continua a ser assim. Sabem todos aqui que há 15 anos atrás Portugal passou por um período difícil, diria mesmo traumático. Mas com a Europa, com a solidariedade europeia, reerguemo-nos e reinventámo-nos.
E hoje somos um país que valoriza o seu capital humano e reconhece o valor do trabalho. Que vê no reforço da competitividade e na criação da riqueza os melhores meios para defender o nosso modelo social, garantir a igualdade de oportunidades e não deixar ninguém para trás. Isto tem uma relevância acrescida perante as convulsões geopolíticas que ameaçam a estabilidade económica, comercial e social. Para alguns, perante essas convulsões, a resposta passaria por um voluntarismo frenético e para outros por um imobilismo anacrónico. Ambos são tão demagógicos como insustentáveis no longo prazo.
Ao invés, Portugal escolhe uma estratégia personalista e transformadora, que conjuga a sensibilidade social com a responsabilidade financeira. E é com este rumo que temos garantido a estabilidade política, económica e social e que alcançamos para Portugal, entre outros resultados, o aumento do rendimento líquido real das famílias em 14,9% no espaço de dois anos, um dos maiores aumentos da OCDE, o maior crescimento em cadeia do emprego na Europa, a redução da taxa do risco de pobreza para um nível há muito não alcançado, um crescimento económico que no segundo trimestre deste ano foi de 2,5%, mais do dobro da União Europeia e da Zona Euro. Vamos a caminho do quarto superavit orçamental que será registado este ano. Temos uma dívida pública que é hoje inferior a 90% do nosso produto. E tudo isto sem aumentarmos um único imposto em dois anos e meio e reduzindo a tributação sobre os rendimentos do trabalho e sobre o rendimento das empresas.
Estas são evidências de que estamos num rumo que é o rumo certo, que é o rumo da transformação de Portugal para resolver os problemas estruturais da nossa comunidade e para resolver também e responder aos problemas imediatos e quotidianos dos portugueses, tal qual se pretende que aconteça em toda a Europa. Estamos nós no lugar onde queremos estar?
Não, ainda não estamos. Queremos mais. Temos muito trabalho pela frente. Temos muito trabalho em Portugal e temos muito trabalho na Europa. Temos nesses dois níveis de regular apenas e só o que é essencial e nos concentrarmos na execução e nos resultados.
Por isso quero também daqui desafiar cada um de vós a juntar-se à guerra à burocracia e ao excesso de regulamentação que queremos implementar e estamos a implementar em Portugal e sabemos que é também um objetivo europeu. Embora saibamos e temos de ser honestos, essa burocracia e esse excesso de regulamentação persiste muito aqui em Estrasburgo, em Bruxelas, nas instituições europeias. Por isso cada instituição e cada pessoa tem de responder por si a este desafio e não pensar sempre que a sua emenda, o seu acréscimo é sempre o mais importante e depois o conjunto das emendas e dos acréscimos dão excesso de regulamentação para não dizer muitas vezes excesso de confusão. A Europa não pode ser um think tank normativo ou um museu de si própria.
Queremos uma Europa audaz, vibrante e que lidere na economia, na segurança e na cultura. Por isso temos também de reforçar o investimento na ciência e na tecnologia. Não podemos ficar por uma Europa excessivamente reguladora e temos de ter ambição tal como aconteceu com a revolução industrial de sermos um agente central das revoluções dos tempos de hoje, em particular no âmbito da inteligência artificial e das novas tecnologias. Para aproveitarmos o seu potencial disruptivo a favor da humanidade, evitando o desvirtuar daquilo que é a nossa essência. E claro, temos de ser mais produtivos.
Temos de reindustrializar o nosso espaço. Temos de criar mais emprego qualificado e mais emprego bem remunerado. Para isso precisamos também de maior capacidade de investimento. Precisamos de avançar definitivamente para a união das poupanças e o investimento e de concluir a união bancária, dando de resto seguimento ao trabalho da senhora comissária Maria Luís Albuquerque aqui presente. E temos de nos manter abertos ao mundo, continuar a diversificar parceiros comerciais e novos mercados como o Mercosul e fortalecer todas as cadeias de abastecimento.
Senhora Presidente, senhoras e senhores deputados, por tudo isto, o debate sobre o quadro financeiro plurianual é decisivo. Será a tradição financeira da nossa ambição política. Precisamos de um orçamento que financie as novas prioridades sem colocar em causa as políticas que continuam essenciais para a convergência e para a competitividade de toda a Europa. Que acrescente valor à vida dos cidadãos e seja visível e real em todos os Estados-Membros e em todas as regiões. Porque não há competitividade europeia sem coesão.
E para haver coesão, temos de ter uma economia competitiva. Portugal, quero aqui também dizer isto de forma clara, transparente e frontal, Portugal não encara o quadro financeiro plurianual como um concurso de pedinchices. Portugal vê o quadro financeiro plurianual como uma oportunidade de aprofundar um projeto social e económico que parte de um mercado interno só possível e viável com inovação e com a solidariedade entre todos os Estados-Membros e todas as regiões.
Devemos fazer esta discussão sem dogmas e sem tabus. Também quero aqui recordar que a contribuição portuguesa para o orçamento da União é superior às contribuições dos Estados-membros ditos frugais, se a analisarmos, como é minha convicção que devemos fazer, sobretudo no âmbito de um mercado interno, à luz da proporção daquilo que cada um dá em função do seu produto interno bruto, em função da capacidade da sua economia. Porque, senhores deputados, há que reconhecer uma coisa simples, e às vezes as coisas simples estão diante de nós e nem sempre as vemos com clareza. Dar 10 de 100 é muito mais do que dar 50 de 1000. E, portanto, quando olhamos para as contribuições dos Estados-membros, devemos olhar para o esforço que cada Estado-membro faz daquilo que é o seu contributo face àquela que é a capacidade da sua economia, nomeadamente num mercado interno que é comum e que comporta vantagens para as economias mais fortes.
A política de coesão e a política agrícola comum são também marcas históricas e de sucesso da solidariedade europeia.
São inerentes ao mercado interno e são fonte de prosperidade para todos os europeus. E no desafiante contexto político que vivemos, também quero aqui realçar, as regiões ultraperiféricas são garantia de profundidade e de autonomia estratégica e têm importância acrescida para a nossa afirmação no mundo. Por exemplo, em áreas tão relevantes como o ambiente, como o espaço, como os cabos marítimos que ligam as comunicações entre continentes e como as garantias das condições de navegabilidade internacional, matéria que aliás é hoje mais do que relevante na agenda global. Nada disto invalida que apostemos também em novas prioridades, da defesa à segurança e naturalmente da competitividade económica. Portugal não tem medo, muito pelo contrário, Portugal concorda com uma cultura de mérito e com uma cultura de excelência.
E sei, sei que o Parlamento Europeu partilha estas prioridades. Estamos portanto também juntos no esforço de modernização do orçamento. Isto também deve traduzir-se em mais receitas. Não podemos aceitar que se perpetuem mecanismos concebidos para outros tempos e para outras realidades.
Pergunto: que sentido, que sentido faz hoje um mecanismo como os rebates? Que sentido faz à luz de uma lógica de aceleração de mecanismos de financiamento que possam consignar novas receitas próprias e à luz das regras de funcionamento de um mercado interno? Tenhamos coragem e mantenhamos a nossa ambição. Teremos de ser capazes de resolver os problemas concretos das pessoas. Teremos de resolver esses problemas porque esse é o melhor caminho para conter e diminuir o espaço do crescimento da demagogia, do populismo e do extremismo.
Também por isso, a nossa resposta não pode ser apenas tecnocrática e retórica. Tem de ser política, tem de ser concreta, tem de ser sentida na vida dos europeus. Senhora Presidente, Senhores Deputados, a crise energética devida a conflitos internacionais nos quais não participamos está a ter impacto grave na vida dos europeus. A capacidade de resposta europeia também pode fazer a diferença, deve fazer a diferença.
Estará na altura de não deixarmos a cada Estado-membro atuar por si ou apenas por si e também estará na altura de podermos ter uma resposta coordenada a nível europeu. Há dias na Assembleia Geral das Nações Unidas disse e aqui repito que temos de pôr cobro a uma espécie de masoquismo coletivo que está a causar danos a todos. A crise com o abastecimento e o preço do petróleo e por via dele dos combustíveis e por via deles de outros bens essenciais à vida das pessoas e das empresas está a prejudicar todos. E como está a prejudicar todos é também coletivamente que temos de encontrar respostas sem excluir nada, incluindo refletir e eventualmente decidir a propósito do mecanismo de formação do preço do petróleo no mercado internacional. Estamos a impactar muito a vida das famílias e das empresas e também a nossa capacidade de sermos mais competitivos e produtivos.
Por isso o caminho de redução das dependências externas que hoje está na prioridade da agenda europeia é essencial. Por isso temos de acelerar a transição energética e assumir a nossa responsabilidade intergeracional.
Em Portugal, temos feito o nosso trabalho. Mais de 70% da nossa eletricidade é hoje provinda de fontes renováveis. Os preços são por isso dos mais competitivos a nível europeu, precisamente pela capacidade de sermos mais autónomos e menos dependentes. Temos todos de beneficiar do processo de aceleração da eletrificação da nossa economia, investir nas redes e investir também nas interligações entre os Estados-Membros da União Europeia. Se não o fizermos, continuaremos expostos e dependentes àquilo que são as decisões de outros.
Se não o fizermos, como aliás a senhora presidente também assinalou, continuaremos a contribuir para agravar eventos climáticos extremos a que neste momento nenhum país da União Europeia está imune, sejam esses eventos incêndios, sejam esses eventos tempestades ou cheias repentinas. Para mitigar esse impacto, precisamos também de instrumentos para reduzir vulnerabilidades, precisamos de instrumentos para ter uma capacidade de resposta mais rápida e meios para recuperar também de forma mais rápida. A solidariedade europeia não deve ser apenas ativada em situações de emergência.
Temos também de intervir na preparação e na prevenção. E o próprio quadro financeiro plurianual deve também cumprir este objetivo. Estamos convictos que mecanismos como o mecanismo europeu de resseguros, com soluções sustentáveis para a gestão de bens essenciais como a água, são também caminhos a trilhar, não esquecendo a aposta na ciência e na inovação para melhor podermos proteger e conciliar o interesse ambiental e o interesse das atividades económicas, em particular da agricultura e do setor primário. Senhora Presidente, senhoras e senhores deputados, quero destacar ainda outros dois desafios incontornáveis da vida dos cidadãos europeus e também dos portugueses. Por um lado, a habitação, uma prioridade política em Portugal.
Temos-nos empenhado em aumentar a oferta através de várias medidas, nomeadamente da simplificação de procedimentos e do apoio fiscal, da redução dos impostos à construção e do fomento do mercado do arrendamento.
E também a apoiar a procura quando essa necessidade é imperiosa. É o caso do apoio aos mais jovens através de uma política fiscal amiga deste segmento etário, seja nos rendimentos do trabalho, seja na aquisição de casa própria. Seria também aqui muito útil que a nível europeu pudéssemos ter uma resposta complementar, evidentemente respeitando as competências nacionais, mas contribuindo através da simplificação de procedimentos e regulação e da mobilização de financiamento para que as políticas activas de habitação possam ter resultado. A segunda matéria à qual queria também dedicar-me e deixar aqui a minha reflexão é relativamente às migrações, um desafio que é diferente mas que é também igualmente crucial e que em certa medida também tem pontos de conexão com a habitação. Portugal, como sabem, teve nos últimos anos um aumento exponencial de estrangeiros a residir no nosso país, numa situação que entendemos era insustentável.
Executámos uma reforma estrutural, alterámos a chamada Lei dos Estrangeiros, da Nacionalidade e do Retorno. Regulámos a imigração e dignificámos a vida das pessoas, daquelas que procuram o nosso país por bem para acrescentar valor e capacidade e competência aos nossos recursos humanos. Hoje, as portas de Portugal, que são também as portas da Europa, não estão fechadas, repito, não estão fechadas, mas também não estão escancaradas. Nós defendemos a regulação, a imigração legal como a via para termos uma resposta mais humanista para os cidadãos. E isso é também preencher os objetivos que estão traçados e definidos a nível europeu.
Conjugar um controlo responsável com uma integração humanista. Responder às necessidades demográficas da nossa economia e preservar a nossa identidade. Esta é a linha que defendemos para o nosso país e é a linha que defendemos também para a Europa. É a linha que garante a coesão interna, as necessidades económicas e a proteção das nossas fronteiras. Senhora Presidente, senhoras e senhores deputados.
Tantas vezes se critica a capacidade externa da Europa, mas creio que nos devemos orgulhar da consistência e da relevância do nosso apoio político, económico e financeiro à Ucrânia face a uma guerra de agressão ilegal e injusta. Isto também reforça a nossa autonomia estratégica. Reforça a nossa capacidade de nos defendermos dos nossos agressores. Reforça a necessidade de apostarmos em políticas comuns de segurança e defesa, em capacitarmos as nossas indústrias estratégicas, no reforço que também revela a dinamização das nossas alianças e a consolidação de novas parcerias. Com uma perspectiva global e dentro desta com uma visão estratégica que é atlântica, que liga a Europa ao Brasil, aos Estados Unidos, ao Canadá.
Com uma visão estratégica que liga a Europa à África. Com uma visão que liga o nosso continente e o nosso projeto a todos, a todas as geografias e naturalmente a todas as parcerias. Senhora Presidente, senhores deputados.
Termino partilhando convosco os princípios que estão subjacentes à história de quase 900 anos de Portugal. Contam-nos grandes poetas como Camões e Pessoa que há 500 anos Portugal levou a Europa ao mundo. E desde então a Europa, a Europa de Gutenberg e Marie Curie, liderou o mundo e foi escrevendo páginas douradas da nossa história coletiva. Hoje, num contexto em que o mundo desafia a Europa, Portugal, como parte deste corpo europeu, como parte desta alma atlântica, com uma vocação universalista, renova o empenho em fazer parte desta nossa Europa. A nossa Europa da paz, do progresso, da liberdade e da cultura.
A Europa que foi acolhendo novos membros, acolheu Portugal há 40 anos e que não pode ser indiferente ou relapsa perante a ambição dos países que se querem juntar a nós com toda a mais-valia política, económica e social que esse alargamento comporta também.
Ainda que seja uma decisão com impacto também no funcionamento institucional da União Europeia. Essa Europa que nós queremos mais competitiva e mais coesa, que nós queremos mais segura e mais sustentável, que nós queremos mais próxima e menos burocrática, é aquilo que os europeus esperam de nós.
E é esta a Europa que nós temos a responsabilidade de entregar às próximas gerações de europeus. É em nome de Portugal que vos quero aqui reiterar que é nesta Europa que nós vamos continuar a colocar a nossa energia para podermos construir um projeto comum de prosperidade, de paz e de justiça. Muito obrigado.
Thank you, Prime Minister Montenegro. And now we'll start with the exchange of views with our members, starting with the chair of the EPP group, Manfred Weber.
Manfred Weber
Madam President of the European Parliament, Commissioner, Mr. Prime Minister, dear Luís, welcome in the European Parliament. And allow me also to send a great welcome to our former colleague Paulo Rangel, Foreign Minister, back home in the European Parliament.
Great to see you and welcome. Dear Luís, Mr. Prime Minister, you represent today with your speech Portuguese and European leadership at its best: responsible with public money, ambitious for your country, and also committed to a stronger Europe. This year, as you said it already, we celebrate 40 years of Portugal inside of the European Union. And we have great reasons to celebrate. Since accession in 1986, Portugal's GDP has increased by more than 130%.
And together, we created around 1 million new jobs in Portugal. Good jobs, families are having a good income now. Portugal is a true European success story. And at a time where people doubt and people have fears and sometimes reject even the European project, we should all remind our citizens about this great example of people who made the choice to believe in Europe and who turned this belief into a reality, a very positive reality for Portugal and Europe.
Dear Mr. Prime Minister, you are continuing now this success story and you earned your place step by step. Look at the record of the last years. Budget surplus of 2024 and 2025, surplus. Then we have also the debt goes down to less than 90% of the GDP and one of the fastest growing economies in the European Union, 2% last year. Let me tell you, Luís, as a German, I have to say I'm quite jealous about the growth results you're delivering now in Portugal.
But as an EPP leader, let me also be clear, you prove that EPP policies work, not only on paper, but in practice for the daily life of our citizens. So, congratulations for this. And you are delivering also where people feel this development. It is about housing for young people, you said it, tax exemptions for the first homes, more than 20,000 new homes were delivered, higher minimum wages, pensions. Portugal is also investing strongly in defense.
Portugal reached the 2% on GDP in defense in 2025 ahead of schedule. At European Council, you are the one of the strong voices also for international issues, as you said it, clearly pointed out, the rule-based trade.
Portugal is Europe's door to the Atlantic, and you have defended the Mercosur agreement from the very first moment. The populists are offering trade fears, you, we are offering fair trade. More jobs, more growth, a stronger Europe in the world. And also one thing is really strong to see, also Roberta Metsola referred to this. This summer, Portugal experienced again devastating forest fires.
And yet when Spain and France called for help, Portugal answered, was present, firefighters were really on the ground. That's European solidarity at its best on the ground. That is the Europe we want to build together, a Europe that is competitive, that trades, creates jobs, a Europe that is safe, that invests in defense, and a Europe that is united, that protects its people when they are, when the need is mostly needed. With a strong EPP leadership like you deliver it on Portugal, we can do this. Thank you for this, Europe has a lot to learn from Portugal's success story.
Thank you, Mr. Weber. Now on behalf of the S&D group, Marta Temido, one and a half minutes.
Obrigada, senhora presidente, senhor primeiro-ministro, quero começar por lhe dar as boas-vindas ao Parlamento Europeu.
Marta Temido
É sabido, temos discordâncias das políticas do governo, da educação à saúde, mas não usaremos, como outros o fizeram, o Parlamento Europeu para o escrutínio das políticas domésticas. Queremos antes focar-nos no que nos une, no interesse dos europeus, dos portugueses. Por isso, queria deixar-lhe hoje três perguntas. Referiu na sua intervenção o tema das prioridades da habitação, mas no passado considerou que este era um problema de cada país. Continua hoje a achar, e depois daquilo que nos disse hoje, que a União não tem nenhum papel nesta crise que tanto afeta a todos?
Recordo que em Portugal uma das políticas do atual governo foi colocar o teto de uma renda moderada em 2.300 euros, o dobro daquilo que esta eurodeputada paga por uma renda em Bruxelas. Nunca as rendas ficaram tão altas. O que pode a Europa fazer? Diz que acelerar a transição energética é uma prioridade e concordamos. Mas quanto ao apoio às famílias e às pequenas empresas, para quando a aprovação em Portugal do plano social para o clima, que pode permitir aceder a fundos europeus?
E por último, a negociação do próximo quadro financeiro plurianual. Defende mais recursos comuns e até novos empréstimos.
Podemos concordar, mas pergunto-lhe exatamente que novos recursos comuns, como tratar os novos empréstimos quando ainda não acabámos de pagar os atuais? Portanto, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, desejo-lhe a maior sorte, sobretudo nesta Europa que tanto precisa de Portugal, que este ano comemora 40 anos de entrada. Mas atenção, a vida dos portugueses não é uma história de êxito e se a queremos melhorar, temos de ter isto presente. Muito obrigada.
Thank you. Now for the PfE Group, António Tânger Corrêa, five and a half minutes.
António Tânger Corrêa
Senhora Presidente, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, senhora Comissária, senhor Ministro dos Negócios Estrangeiros, está na sua casa, obviamente. Portugal entrou na então Comunidade Económica Europeia há 40 anos. 40 anos de PSD e PS em Portugal, 40 anos de PPE e socialistas no centro do poder europeu. Em Lisboa alternam, em Bruxelas repartem o poder. 40 anos depois é tempo de olhar para os maus resultados.
Portugal continua 20% mais pobre do que a média europeia. E há um problema ainda maior: Portugal não converge com uma Europa que ela própria está a perder terreno no mundo. Portugal não converge e a Europa perde competitividade. Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, onde está o sucesso deste modelo? Falemos de energia e do custo de vida.
Portugal fechou as centrais a carvão e Sines e Matosinhos e perdeu capacidade própria de produção e refinação. Hoje até parte das nossas reservas estratégicas de petróleo está armazenada em França. Apostaram nas renováveis sem garantir o armazenamento e capacidade de resposta quando não há sol nem vento. Depois veio o apagão de 28 de abril, que certamente não será o último. E agora vem o ETS 2, um novo imposto de carbono sobre os combustíveis e energia dos edifícios.
Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, quanto vai isto custar aos portugueses? E o senhor informou-os disto? O seu partido apoiou esta política em Bruxelas, por isso peço-lhe que responda claramente: quando Bruxelas aprova uma medida que encarece a vida dos portugueses, porque é que o seu governo a aceita em vez de a combater? Falemos do dinheiro europeu. No final de 2023, a Procuradoria Europeia tinha 102 investigações ativas relacionadas com Portugal, envolvendo quase mil milhões de euros de danos estimados.
Depois de décadas a receber fundos europeus, que resultados concretos apresentou o seu governo no combate à fraude e à corrupção? Quanto à imigração, em 2019 Portugal tinha cerca de 590 mil residentes estrangeiros. Em 2024 tinha um milhão e 544 mil.
Um aumento superior a 160% em apenas cinco anos, sem contar com os ilegais. Dos ilegais sabemos isto: em 2023 foram emitidas mais de 23 mil notificações de remigração e foram realizados 252 afastamentos, 1%. O seu partido vota a favor da remigração aqui nesta sala, na Europa, e em Portugal o senhor primeiro-ministro assobia para o lado. Diga-nos quantas pessoas em situação irregular estão hoje em Portugal, quantas pretende fazer regressar e até quando? Não lhe peço intenções, senhor primeiro-ministro, dê-nos um número e dê-nos datas.
Porque isto tem a ver com a segurança dos portugueses. O Relatório Anual de Segurança Interna RASI indica 1205 crimes relacionados com a imigração ilegal. Dados confirmam a presença de quase uma centena de elementos do Primeiro Comando da Capital e do Comando Vermelho em Portugal. Sinalizou também ligações a Portugal de radicais islâmicos e redes de terrorismo, acessos a propaganda jihadista através de IP portugueses e jovens residentes envolvidos em processos de radicalização. Portanto, quantas redes foram desmanteladas, quantos operacionais foram detidos, quanto dinheiro foi apreendido, quando é que o senhor primeiro-ministro concretizará a ilegalização da Irmandade Muçulmana, que é absolutamente necessária na Europa?
Resultados, senhor Primeiro-Ministro. Como justifica o seu apoio a António Costa para a presidência do Conselho, a pessoa que deixou Portugal num estado calamitoso em termos de coesão? Falemos agora da nossa capacidade de produzir. Desde que entrámos na CEE perdemos 64% das capturas de pescado, perdemos mais de 62 da frota pesqueira. Produzíamos cerca de 60% das nossas necessidades de trigo, agora produzimos 5%.
Mas temos painéis solares. Faz-se um excelente cozido à portuguesa com painéis solares. Perdemos um terço do peso da nossa indústria transformadora. Em 1996 representava 16,6% do PIB, agora apenas 11,3. Temos mar, temos terra, temos agricultores, temos pescadores, temos industriais.
O que é que está a fazer para que cresçam e sejam realmente competitivos? Por fim, pergunto-lhe, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, vai dar luz verde ao fim da regra da unanimidade no Conselho? Porque se sim, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, estará a entregar o pouco que resta de soberania de Portugal. E Portugal tem que ser um país soberano para sobreviver. Sempre o foi, como o senhor Primeiro-Ministro muito bem referiu.
Nós fomos grandes e continuamos a ser grandes, mas temos que ser soberanos. E continuará a fazer o que faz, vir assim um pouco de mãos estendidas à Europa em vez de fazer crescer Portugal por si mesmo com os nossos próprios recursos?
Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, estar na União Europeia não pode ser levar Bruxelas para Portugal de embute. Tem de significar, isso sim, por levar Portugal para Bruxelas. Muito obrigado, senhor Primeiro-Ministro.
Roberta Metsola
Thank you, Mr. Tânger Corrêa. Now Beata Szydło, one and a half minutes.
Beata Szydło
Pani Przewodnicząca, Panie Premierze, Pani Komisarz, Szanowni Państwo. Dziesięć lat temu przemawiałam tutaj w tej Izbie jako premier polskiego rządu. Mówiłam wtedy, że Unia Europejska musi bardziej dostrzegać wrażliwość, różnorodność i uwarunkowania poszczególnych państw członkowskich. Że musi szanować naszą wrażliwość. To był czas, kiedy zaczynał się kryzys migracyjny przez błędną politykę właśnie Unii Europejskiej.
To był czas, kiedy wierzono w Unii Europejskiej, że można robić interesy z Putinem. To był czas, kiedy w tej Izbie promowane było Nord Stream 2. Polska przestrzegała. Wtedy nie słuchano.
Po latach tutaj w tej izbie usłyszałam takich, którzy mówili: tak, Polska miała rację. Ale było już za późno. Dlatego dzisiaj jako polski europoseł powiem to samo, ale jeszcze dobitniej. Unia Europejska musi zacząć szanować suwerenne państwa, nasze odmienności i budować wspólnotę opartą na tym, na czym została stworzona: idei chrześcijańskiej, wspólnej wartości, bezpieczeństwie, konkurencyjności. Czy Europa może być bezpieczna?
Tak. Czy Europa może być konkurencyjna? Tak. Czy Europa może się szybko rozwijać? Oczywiście.
Czy Europejczycy nie muszą płacić bardzo drogich rachunków za koszty życia? Tak. Dlaczego tak nie jest? Dlatego, że tutaj popełnia się błędy. Nie można podążać cały czas ślepą uliczką i wierzyć, że tam na końcu gdzieś jest wyjście.
Jeżeli idziemy złą drogą, to zawróćmy. Dlaczego europejska gospodarka nie jest konkurencyjna? Bo została zniszczona przez Zielony Ład, przez ETS. Dlaczego nie chcemy tego naprawić? Dlaczego Europa nie jest bezpieczna?
Przez błędną politykę migracyjną. Dlaczego w to cały czas brniemy? Europa to nie Unia Europejska. Unia Europejska to wspólnota suwerennych państw działających w Europie. Szanujmy się wzajemnie i dbajmy o to, żeby Unia Europejska przetrwała, bo wszyscy jej potrzebujemy.
Dziękuję bardzo.
Thank you. Now the chair of Renew Europe group, Valérie Hayer, two minutes.
Valérie Hayer
Merci, Madame la Présidente, Madame la Commissaire, Monsieur le Premier ministre. Bienvenue dans ce Parlement. Vous êtes le Premier ministre d'un grand pays européen, le Portugal. Ça a été rappelé, il y a à peine plus de 50 ans, votre pays vivait encore sous une dictature. Il y a 40 ans, il rejoignait la grande famille européenne.
Aujourd'hui, le Portugal est une démocratie solide, une économie florissante, un pays qui compte en Europe. Et c'est ça aussi, la promesse européenne. Monsieur le Premier ministre, je voudrais saluer votre engagement européen. Et je veux aussi saluer votre refus de gouverner avec l'extrême droite. Il n'y a rien à construire avec ceux qui veulent détruire l'Europe.
Vous faites partie de ceux qui savent l'importance de notre majorité pro-européenne ici dans ce Parlement.
Mais je voudrais quand même vous dire une chose : il y a la position morale, il y a aussi les actes. Et le meilleur antidote, c'est de répondre aux besoins de la population. Et si ça implique des réformes difficiles, alors il faut avoir le courage de les mener. Je pense notamment à la question de la compétitivité. Vous trouverez le groupe Renew à vos côtés sur ce sujet.
Vous avez promis beaucoup, il est temps d'agir ensemble. Nous avons un marché de 450 millions d'Européens, achevons enfin notre marché intérieur. Nous avons des centaines de milliards d'euros d'épargne, mobilisons-les pour financer nos entreprises. Nous avons besoin d'une énergie abondante et abordable, construisons une véritable union de l'énergie. Et arrêtons d'étouffer, vous l'avez soulevé, nos entreprises sous des règles inutiles, alors simplifions.
Oui, le prochain budget européen devrait être à la hauteur de cette ambition, vous en avez longuement parlé également, parce que la compétitivité, c'est une question d'indépendance. Le dernier sommet entre les États-Unis et la Chine nous l'a rappelé. Dans le monde qui vient, quand on n'est pas à la table, c'est qu'on est au menu. Enfin, Monsieur le Premier ministre, vous dites quelque chose qui fait aussi sens dans cet hémicycle : sans cohésion, pas de convergence, et sans convergence, pas de compétitivité. C'est cette Europe compétitive, indépendante et solidaire que nous voulons construire ensemble.
Alors vive le Portugal, pardon, et vive l'Europe. Merci.
Now on behalf of the Greens group, Catarina Vieira, one and a half minutes.
Merci.
Catarina Vieira
Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, há quase dez anos eu emigrei e os tempos eram difíceis. Mas hoje, infelizmente, os tempos permanecem difíceis e aos problemas antigos juntam-se novos. Falou da habitação. Com custos recordes na Europa, o seu governo prefere facilitar os despejos e premiar a especulação em vez de defender o direito fundamental à habitação. Falou na migração.
Vemos a exploração de trabalhadores estrangeiros extremamente vulneráveis e, pior, vemos múltiplos ataques violentos contra imigrantes em várias partes de Portugal. Estes ataques, alguns deles ligados a redes neonazis, resultam do ódio estimulado pela extrema-direita. É chocante ver o governo desenvolver leis de imigração precisamente com esses partidos, falhando na defesa da nossa segurança e democracia. Este verão, ao regressar a casa, ao aterrar na ilha Terceira, tive uma visão arrepiante. Dezenas de aviões militares norte-americanos estacionados na pista das Lajes, máquinas que da nossa ilha partem para alimentar uma guerra ilegal onde civis continuam a ser sacrificados.
É verdade que Portugal tem defendido o direito internacional, reconhecendo a Palestina e comprometendo-se a parar o comércio com os colonatos ilegais. São medidas essenciais e que eu aplaudo. No entanto, de pouco servirá a diplomacia se continuarmos a ser cúmplices de quem viola o direito internacional.
Portanto, o governo tem de decidir de que lado é que quer estar. Não se protegem os inquilinos enriquecendo os senhorios. Não se combate o racismo cedendo à extrema-direita. E não se defende a paz facilitando a guerra. Os tempos são difíceis, é verdade.
Eles exigem coerência, coragem política e respeito absoluto pela dignidade e pelos direitos humanos. Muito obrigada.
Catarina Martins
Muito obrigada, senhora presidente. Senhor primeiro-ministro, é um gosto vê-lo cá, podemos ir a contas difíceis. Repare, uma pessoa quando começa a trabalhar, só ganha o primeiro salário depois de ter trabalhado o mês todo. Mas quando arrenda uma casa, tem de dar dois meses adiantados mais dois meses de caução. São quatro meses que a pessoa tem de ter e ainda não pôs lá os pés.
Quem é que tem esse dinheiro? E agora o senhor primeiro-ministro quer passar para três meses de renda adiantada e sem nenhum limite de caução. Sabe que não há mais nenhum estado-membro em que seja exigido este assalto para entrar de uma casa. Mais do que isso.
Quando olhamos para os despejos, o senhor primeiro-ministro acha bem que alguém que deu adiantado quatro, seis, um mês, um ano de rendas, possa ser despejado por se ter atrasado a pagar dois meses, ainda que depois tenha pago tudo integralmente. Essa crueldade não tem comparação em nenhum dos Estados-Membros. E quando vamos ao valor das rendas, bem, nós já sabemos, Portugal paga muito mais. O governo português acha que 2.300 euros de renda, três vezes o salário mínimo nacional, duas vezes o salário médio, é uma renda que merece um benefício fiscal, ou seja, merece que os outros contribuintes apoiem o senhorio que cobra aquela renda. Como vamos explicar estas contas?
Senhor primeiro-ministro, as contas inexplicáveis não são só na habitação. Falou dos combustíveis também. Porque é que Portugal pode menos que a Espanha ou a Polónia quando se está a tratar de intervir para baixar os preços dos combustíveis? E o senhor primeiro-ministro pode mesmo vir aqui dizer que nós não participamos nos conflitos que estão a afetar a vida dos europeus, quando a base das Lajes está a ser usada ilegalmente para a guerra de Trump e de Israel, que fechou o estreito de Ormuz e que está a provocar este colapso no preço dos combustíveis? Senhor primeiro-ministro, o Bloco de Esquerda fez queixa ao Ministério Público porque o uso das bases das Lajes é ilegal.
Luís Montenegro
O Ministério Público já está a investigar, mas não era preciso uma investigação para que Portugal, se quer a paz, não fizesse parte da guerra.
René Aust
Das ist Europa ist der Tagesordnungspunkt und ich möchte mit Ihnen darüber sprechen, was Europa einmal war und wieder sein kann. Europa war wie Deutschland einmal ein Kulturraum der Erfinder, Ingenieure, Meister und Forscher, ein Kulturraum, in dem Fortschritt als Versprechen galt. Robert Koch hat die Medizin verändert, Konrad Zuse einen der ersten funktionsfähigen Computer der Welt gebaut. Und hinter ihm, hinter diesen großen Namen standen Millionen Menschen, Ingenieure, Facharbeiter, Handwerker und Unternehmer, die aus Ideen Wirklichkeit gemacht haben. Diese Geschichte geht weiter und ist nicht zu Ende.
Gerade haben zwei deutsche Forscher den Nobelpreis für Medizin erhalten, herzlichen Glückwunsch dazu.
Und dieser Nobelpreis zeigt uns mehr, was in unseren Kulturen, unserer Wissenschaftstradition und mit unseren Forschungsinfrastrukturen noch immer möglich ist. So stellen wir uns Deutschland und Europa in 30 Jahren vor. Ein Land, in dem Hochgeschwindigkeitszüge große Städte miteinander verbinden, schnell, zuverlässig und pünktlich. In dem der Transrapid, den deutsche Ingenieure entwickelt haben, endlich auch in Deutschland fährt und unsere Metropolen mit einer Geschwindigkeit verbindet, die heute noch wie Zukunft klingt. Und in dem der öffentliche Nahverkehr so sauber, zuverlässig und sicher ist, dass sich jede Frau auch nachts wieder selbstverständlich alleine in Bus und Bahn sicher fühlen kann.
Stellen wir uns ein Kontinent und Land vor, in dem wieder so viele Wohnungen gebaut werden, dass sich auch eine junge Familie ein eigenes Zuhause leisten kann. Wir haben die Facharbeiter, wir haben die Unternehmer, wir haben eine jahrhundertealte Tradition von Wissenschaft, Industrie und Handwerk. Und trotzdem hat man manchmal den Eindruck, die Amerikaner erfinden das nächste Jahrhundert, die Chinesen bauen das nächste Jahrhundert und Europa verwaltet die Vergangenheit. Aber das ist kein Naturgesetz. Auch in Deutschland und Europa kann das nächste Jahrhundert erfunden werden.
Auch in Deutschland und Europa kann das nächste Jahrhundert gebaut werden. Dafür müssen wir wieder mehr Vertrauen in die Menschen haben, in unsere Bürger, die etwas schaffen wollen. Schluss mit dem Misstrauen gegenüber Unternehmen. Schluss mit der Bevormundung der Bürger. Und Fortschritt im Übrigen bedeutet auch nicht, alles Alte abzureißen und überall dieselben Glasfassaden hinzustellen.
Wir können unsere Städte schöner machen und gleichzeitig die modernste Infrastruktur der Welt bauen. Wir können unsere Traditionen bewahren und gleichzeitig technologisch an der Weltspitze stehen. Wir müssen uns nicht zwischen Herkunft und Zukunft entscheiden. Bewahre was trägt, erfinde was fehlt und baue was bleibt. Vielen herzlichen Dank.
Thank you. Now Paulo Cunha, one and a half minutes.
Paulo Cunha
Muito obrigado, senhora presidente, senhora comissária, senhor primeiro-ministro, bem-vindo a Estrasburgo, ao Parlamento Europeu. Nós temos uma máxima e um lema que são essenciais ao projeto europeu. A máxima é não deixar ninguém para trás e o lema é unidos na diversidade. E temos que aproveitar todas as ferramentas, nomeadamente instrumentos financeiros, para os aprofundar. Daí que o quadro financeiro plurianual, que está numa fase avançada de negociação, deve ser um instrumento essencial para que possamos mais facilmente alcançar esses desideratos.
Primeiro, é preciso combinar, como disse e bem o senhor primeiro-ministro, competitividade com coesão, com política agrícola comum e com proteção das regiões ultraperiféricas.
Competitividade interna, com o aprofundamento do mercado único, com a implementação do vigésimo oitavo regime e coesão. Coesão porque nós temos ainda territórios, regiões, cidades que precisam muito deste tipo de ferramentas para que possam estar ao nível e ao patamar europeu. Em segundo lugar, criar receitas próprias, como foi referido. É preciso que tenhamos um orçamento mais arrojado para que possamos ir mais longe e competir melhor à escala global. Mas também apostar na desburocratização, na simplificação de procedimentos orçamentais.
É preciso que o orçamento esteja ao alcance de todos. É preciso que todas as empresas, todas as instituições, todos possam mais facilmente aceder às oportunidades. É por isso que combater a burocracia é absolutamente essencial. Só desta forma, com uma ferramenta financeira como esta, possamos e podemos, desejamos nós, alcançar os objetivos, estarmos mais próximos uns dos outros e sermos mais competitivos. Muito obrigado.
Thank you, I give the floor next to Juan Fernando López Aguilar, one minute.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Primero, Ministro Montenegro, bienvenido al Parlamento Europeo y saludo al trayecto de Portugal, tan hermana de España, 40 años desde la adhesión que se celebró en su 40 aniversario de forma solemne en este Parlamento Europeo por el Rey de España, el entonces presidente Rebelo de Sousa. Saludo también a mis compañeros socialistas portugueses que le han hablado con respeto, renunciando a traer aquí las diferencias nacionales que tanto padecemos quienes hablamos en español.
Y dos mensajes. El primero, saludo su carta conjunta con el presidente Macron y el presidente del Gobierno de España, Sánchez, en defensa de la participación de las regiones ultraperiféricas en la gobernanza de los fondos regionales, la política de cohesión y la política de solidaridad. Y el segundo, una mirada humana al hecho migratorio, incompatible a juicio de muchos, entre los que me encuentro, con esos centros de retorno que en realidad son de deportación a los que se puede quitar de la vista a seres humanos a países terceros con los que no tienen ningún vínculo ni de origen ni de tránsito. Por tanto, mirada humana y responsable también ante el hecho migratorio. Gracias, Presidenta.
Thank you, Mr. López Aguilar. Now Mario Mantovani, two minutes.
Mario Mantovani
Bene, grazie Presidente, Commissario, Primo Ministro Montenegro, benvenuto. E partirei dal prossimo bilancio europeo. Sono lieto che il Portogallo abbia sostenuto l'iniziativa anche del Presidente del Consiglio italiano Meloni e del Presidente rumeno Dan, poiché senza politica agricola europea e senza politica di coesione il cuore del progetto europeo non resta in piedi.
Ma un bilancio da solo non basta. Io direi che serve una crescita guidata dalle imprese, quella che il suo governo persegue, con meno tasse, meno burocrazia. Lei ha dichiarato guerra alla burocrazia e così siamo anche noi. E qualcosa si muove, dall'Omnibus allo Small First, ma non basta, perché finché resiste l'ideologia del tutto verde e tutto subito che produce chi produce continua a pagare il conto: l'auto, la manifattura, l'agricoltura, la pesca, mentre i nostri concorrenti non presentano gli stessi vincoli. E quindi per questo chiediamo, ad esempio, che un ventottesimo regime sia davvero europeo.
Io ne sono uno shadow rapporteur, un regime leggero, aperto a tutte le imprese, senza limiti di dimensione e di settore e senza condizionalità ideologiche che naturalmente frenano la competitività. Non possiamo attendere il 2029. E non possiamo attendere nemmeno sui confini. Un'Europa che vuole competere deve anche decidere chi entra e come entra.
Come lei ha detto, a Ceuta in poche ore migliaia di ingressi irregolari ci hanno ricordato che le frontiere esterne sono una questione di sovranità e di sicurezza. Nel bilaterale di luglio lei insieme al presidente Meloni avete indicato la via: agire sulle cause profonde in partenariato con i paesi africani. Ecco, primo ministro, il filo che unisce ci unisce: coesione, imprese, frontiere sicure. Un'Europa che cresce, che produce, che protegge. Questa è la direzione dell'Europa.
Thank you, Mr. Mantovani. Grazie. Now João Cotrim de Figueiredo, two minutes.
João Cotrim De Figueiredo
Muito obrigado, senhora presidente, senhor primeiro-ministro, bem-vindo, senhora comissária, senhor ministro, bem regressado. Isto é a Europa. E a pergunta que se impõe nesta ocasião é que papel é que Portugal quer desempenhar nesta Europa? Queremos liderar soluções ou ser apenas um exemplo dos problemas europeus? É que se a Europa tem problemas de crescimento e produtividade, Portugal tem maior.
Se a Europa tem um problema de burocracia, Portugal tem um maior. Se a Europa não está preparada para a inteligência artificial, Portugal está pior. Se a Europa tem um problema de fuga de jovens talentos, Portugal tem um maior. E se a Europa tem problemas de habitação, na saúde, na educação, Portugal também os tem e na maior parte do tempo há mais tempo. Isto não sou eu que o digo.
É o diagnóstico que ano após ano faz a própria União Europeia.
Portanto, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, se na Europa como em Portugal são necessárias reformas, elas não se fazem sem coragem e sem convicções. E quando o país precisa de reformas, o seu governo demasiadas vezes hesita, calcula e adia em vez de avançar. Diz-me que Portugal tem contas certas e eu digo: ainda bem. Mas não chega. Portugal tem de querer ser mais do que o bom aluno da disciplina orçamental enquanto continua na cauda da Europa em tudo o resto.
Portugal tem de aspirar a crescer por méritos próprios sem depender de fundos europeus. E não podemos continuar sempre à espera que a Europa nos desperte do nosso próprio imobilismo. Portugal tem de ser o exemplo de ambição, de modernidade, ter a tal coragem de mexer nos interesses instalados, simplificar a vida das pessoas, cortar na despesa pública inútil e dar espaço ao talento, ao trabalho e à iniciativa. E tudo isto tem de acontecer, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, agora, e não quando formos obrigados a fazê-lo como já aconteceu no passado. Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, em junho disse, e eu cito: "quem trava reformas gosta de viver com a mediania".
Tem toda a razão. Se não quer continuar a conviver com a mediania, só tem um remédio: reformar e já. Muito obrigado.
Thank you very much.
Now, Damian Boeselager, one and a half minutes.
Damian Boeselager
Prime Minister, ficar a ver navios is a Portuguese saying, as you know, that translates to "stay watching ships", and it's used when someone is left behind empty-handed. It's a beautiful image. Someone sitting on the hills of Lisbon, vinho verde in hand, mesmerized by the longing for something unattainable passing by, like a ship in the distance. It's a beautiful image also for the 27 national Prime Ministers of Europe, paralyzed, glued into their seats by national interests, looking out to the horizon for precious goods like a strong foreign policy, trade agreements, affordable housing, defense against Russia, a strong budget. You say you want it, but it's only just a ship sailing somewhere in the distance.
Because every time one of you feels strong enough and wants to get up, the others pull him back and shake their heads because they have a scandal or an election back home. Sánchez, Merz, Macron, today they all sit next to you with wobbly knees. Prime Minister, this is Europe today, and that's not your fault, but it's your responsibility and power to change it. To attain a stronger Europe, we need a real European Prime Minister, not a regional club of 27. I ask you to vote on Parliament's treaty change proposal now.
To attain a stronger Europe, you need to give Europeans the direct choice over their own government with real European elections now.
We have enough with national egos, enough with reactive and weak decisions, enough with opaque backroom deals, enough with excuses that hold us back. Prime Minister, you can speak here today because Suárez, Kohl, Mitterrand and others became captains of their ships and left a legacy, the one we are living right now here in this room, not in a far away distance. So let me ask you, Prime Minister, what is your legacy for Europe? Thank you.
João Oliveira
Obrigado, Presidente. Senhor Primeiro-Ministro Luís Montenegro, o seu governo autorizou a utilização da base das Lajes para a agressão dos Estados Unidos ao Irão e agora prepara-se para receber com gáudio o Secretário de Estado Marco Rubio. As consequências graves, os impactos globais desta agressão estão à vista e o governo português e a União Europeia são corresponsáveis por elas. E pergunto-lhe: vai continuar a ser cúmplice com esta agressão ou vai intervir para lhe pôr fim? Em segundo lugar, está à vista o aproveitamento pelas multinacionais que multiplicam lucros usando a guerra como pretexto para fazerem subir o preço dos combustíveis.
Isso arrasta o aumento geral dos preços e eleva o custo de vida para níveis insuportáveis para os povos. Exigem-se medidas de controlo de preços e aumento de salários e pensões.
Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, vai assistir a esta pilhagem ou vai intervir com essas medidas não apenas no plano nacional, mas também junto da União Europeia para que elas possam ser adotadas? Também na habitação a situação se agrava. Há cada vez mais pessoas que não encontram uma casa que possam pagar ou perdem a casa que têm por não conseguirem suportar o aumento das rendas ou das prestações do crédito à habitação. Custa tanto arrendar um T2 no Cartaxo como um T1 em Bruxelas. E a pergunta que lhe faço, Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, é se vai promover políticas que garantam o direito à habitação ou se, pelo contrário, vai insistir naquelas que agravam a crise que atinge cada vez mais pessoas.
A União Europeia tem em curso um assalto aos sistemas públicos de segurança social. Esta iniciativa designada de União das Poupanças e Investimento, que está a cargo da Comissária portuguesa Maria Luís Albuquerque, ameaça as pensões de quem já hoje está reformado e o futuro daqueles que hoje trabalham a contar com a sua reforma. Vai ficar a ver a União Europeia avançar com esse assalto ou vai intervir para defender as pensões e a segurança social? Por fim, Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, a proposta para o próximo quadro financeiro plurianual é de um quadro comunitário mais pequeno, com a Comissão Europeia no controlo dos fundos que pertencem por direito próprio aos Estados-Membros, com euromilhões de fundos para a guerra e as multinacionais do armamento, mas uma razia de cortes nas políticas de coesão, nos apoios aos agricultores, aos pescadores e às regiões ultraperiféricas.
Roberta Metsola
O senhor vai aceitar um orçamento contra os interesses nacionais e o povo português?
Ruth Firmenich
Meine Damen und Herren, wir reden von der Zukunft Europas, während entscheidende Personen daran arbeiten, diese zu verspielen. Da ist der deutsche Bundeskanzler, der weltweit unbeliebteste Regierungschef, und das muss man erst mal schaffen. Vom deutschen Nationalfeiertag fährt er direkt nach Kiew, um dem korrupten Regime dort frische Milliarden zu überreichen. Und in Brüssel trommelt die EU-Kommissionspräsidentin mit der NATO für einen Krieg Europas gegen Russland. Friedrich Merz und Ursula von der Leyen agieren wie Vertreter der Ukraine und nicht der Menschen in der EU.
Oder meinen Sie, dass die Menschen hier wollen, dass ihr Steuergeld in der Ukraine versickert? Dass 186 Milliarden Euro in den EU-Beitritt der Ukraine fließen? Dass die Militärausgaben beim mehrjährigen Finanzrahmen auf 131 Milliarden Euro verfünffacht werden? Das ist Politik, die Europa zugrunde richtet. Die Menschen in Europa wollen keinen Rüstungsstaat und keinen Krieg.
Sie wollen Investitionen in Bildung, Gesundheit und Infrastruktur.
Ruth Firmenich
Thank you. I give the floor next to Jeroen Lenaers, one and a half minutes.
Jeroen Lenaers
Thank you very much, dear Prime Minister. A very wise former colleague of ours, now your Foreign Minister, always highlighted to me the strong connection between Portugal and my own country of the Netherlands, not by geography, but by this Atlantic soul that you referred to that both our countries have, connected by the sea and a spirit of openness to the world. And I'm proud of that connection today as Portugal under your leadership is delivering impressive results. In a highly fragmented parliament, you have succeeded in advancing important measures, and the results speak for themselves. Since you took office two years ago, your government has combined economic growth with responsible public finances.
You have acted decisively on the cost of living, lowering taxes and putting money back in the hands, in the pockets of working families and pensioners, while continuing to attract investment. Portugal has recorded consecutive budget surpluses and public debt has fallen spectacularly. And Portugal's experience has a message for Europe. It shows that responsible government, lower taxes, economic freedom and social solidarity can go hand in hand. And Europe needs precisely this confidence, and we need it now.
The rest of the world does not wait for us. We have a war at our continent, our economies and our borders are under pressure and the rules-based world order is under threat. So we need to act together in a culture, as you put it, of achievements, merit and excellence. Dear Prime Minister, we share this same objective: a stronger, more competitive and secure Europe capable of defending its interests and delivering prosperity for its citizens. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Lins. Heléne Fritzon, one minute.
Heléne Fritzon
Tack fru talman, herr premiärminister. Europa befinner sig i en tid av stora utmaningar. Vi har krig på vår kontinent, demokratin utmanas, klimatförändringarna är här och nu, jämställdheten ifrågasätts och många människor känner oro. Och det är just då vi behöver mer europeiskt samarbete, inte mindre.
Vi behöver ett Europa som står upp för demokratins och rättsstatens principer, ett Europa som håller ihop, ett Europa som tar ansvar för vår gemensamma säkerhet och står starkt bakom Ukraina, ett Europa som leder klimatomställningen och ett Europa som försvarar jämställdheten och allas lika rättigheter. Vi kan inte låta högerextrema krafter diktera Europas riktning eller rulla tillbaka våra rättigheter. Människor måste känna att EU gör skillnad i deras vardag. Och där blir det helt avgörande att Portugal och andra medlemsstater står upp för ett starkare, tryggare och mer sammanhållet Europa. This is my Europe.
Thank you, Ms Fritzon. Now Dominik Tarczyński, one minute.
Dominik Tarczyński
Thank you, Madam President. Dear leftists, it's not many of you, as always, I'm not surprised. You don't want to talk about, you don't want to talk about this is Europe. Why? Because you destroyed Europe.
What is Europe? Germany, Mr Weber would confirm Eurostat data, the highest level of rapes and killings by illegal migrants, Germany. The highest number of rapes in Sweden and the same with the stabbings. What about France? Yesterday rioters shouted let's kill police in the name of Allah.
This is what we hear in Europe.
This is Europe and this is your fault, communists. This is your fault, Prime Minister. Your political family is responsible for this is Europe. But not in Poland. Because we did not let them in.
When you Germans started this madness in 2015, our conservative government said zero. Not even one will come to Poland. This is why Poland is so safe. This is why Poland is number one. Learn from Poland.
Your time is up. Now, I give the floor next. Your time is up. Thank you now, Helmut Brandstätter. I give the floor next to Helmut Brandstätter.
Helmut Brandstätter
Muito obrigado, senhora presidente, senhor primeiro-ministro, senhora comissária. Peço desculpa pelo facto que o meu português não ser perfeito, mas gosto de falar esta língua. Em 1980, passei o inverno na Costa da Caparica e tentei aprender português. Três anos mais tarde, enquanto jornalista da televisão austríaca, tive a oportunidade de realizar um documentário sobre Portugal.
Conheci um país que terminou uma ditadura, uma longa ditadura, uma população otimista e um país ainda pobre. Em 1985, enquanto correspondente em Bruxelas, acompanhei as negociações com Portugal. O chanceler alemão Helmut Kohl afirmou na altura que a adesão dos dois países teria custos, mas Helmut Kohl: é o nosso dever apoiar os países democráticos que puseram fim às ditaduras. E, senhor Presidente, permita-me um pequeno jogo de palavras. Senhor Montenegro faz parte da Europa, mas o país de Montenegro também, como todos os países de Báltico.
Trabalhamos sem nacionalismos por nossa Europa. Muito obrigado.
Thank you, Mr. Brandstetter. Now Marie Toussaint, un minute.
Marie Toussaint
Monsieur le Premier ministre, l'emprise des groupes financiers sur le logement écrase nos concitoyens. À Madrid, Mari Carmen Abascal a vu son loyer augmenter de 275 %. La société immobilière véreuse qui a voulu expulser cette grand-mère de 87 ans s'est retrouvée face à une mobilisation massive, mais qui était aussi européenne. Car voyez-vous, Monsieur le Premier ministre, la prédation de la finance fait exploser les prix partout, comme chez vous.
Les fonds vautours ou les plateformes Airbnb achètent au prix les plus bas pour revendre ou relouer, souvent à la découpe, au prix les plus hauts, sans se soucier des habitants. Ils privent nombre d'Européens à vivre chez eux. Or vous venez ici, porteur d'une loi qui ne règle rien à la question du logement. Plutôt que de lutter contre les responsables de la crise, vous vous en prenez à ses victimes. Plutôt que de vous attaquer à la spéculation, vos citoyens dépensent toujours plus pour se loger.
Plutôt que d'encadrer les loyers, vous expulsez toujours plus vite les habitants, même les plus vulnérables. Alors je suis venue ici pour vous dire que dans cet hémicycle nous nous opposerons toujours à cette politique sur le logement et je veux dire à tous les Européens que nous nous battrons toujours pour leur dignité.
Lídia Pereira
Muito obrigada, Senhora Presidente. Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, bem-vindo, é uma honra recebê-lo aqui em Estrasburgo num momento tão exigente para a Europa. Os diagnósticos esses estão todos feitos. A Europa cresce pouco, paga demasiado pela energia e decide devagar. Mas Portugal mostra que é possível fazer diferente.
Cresce acima da média, prova que a transição energética atrai investimento, cria emprego e reforça a competitividade. Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, Portugal tem autoridade para liderar esta agenda na Europa.
E não haja dúvidas, a transição energética não é apenas política climática, é muito mais do que isso. É política industrial, é segurança, é autonomia, é soberania. Mas, senhora presidente, caros colegas, uma Europa que ainda paga caro por décadas de dependência, como a crise que estamos a assistir, não pode aceitar que a Península Ibérica continue a ser uma ilha energética. Precisamos de ligar a Europa. As interconexões são essenciais.
Precisamos diversificar fornecimentos para levar as renováveis ao mercado europeu. A soberania energética da Europa não se proclama, constrói-se, ligando os recursos que temos à indústria que deles precisa. Muito obrigado.
Francisco Assis
Muito obrigado, senhora presidente. Senhor primeiro-ministro, senhor ministro dos Negócios Estrangeiros, senhora comissária. Senhor primeiro-ministro, não vou falar de Portugal ou das questões internas portuguesas porque falo de Portugal em Portugal. Vou falar de Portugal na Europa e da dimensão europeia de Portugal e das repercussões das políticas europeias em Portugal. Do meu ponto de vista, neste momento estamos a viver um momento decisivo.
Nós não precisamos de menos Europa, precisamos claramente de mais Europa. Nós precisamos hoje, depois do relatório Draghi ficou claro, um dos grandes problemas que nós temos é a excessiva fragmentação do mercado único.
Essa deve ser uma das grandes prioridades a nível europeu. O FMI diz-nos que as barreiras ao comércio intra-União Europeia de bens e serviços serão responsáveis, serão equivalentes a uma tarifa de 44% sobre os bens e de 110 sobre os serviços. O Banco Central Europeu fala em 65% sobre os bens e 100 sobre os serviços. E este é hoje um dos grandes problemas europeus. E é um problema que nós temos que enfrentar todos conjuntamente.
Aliás, uma das grandes questões da Europa é essa. Hoje somos liderados por figuras políticas acossadas, por figuras políticas com medo, por figuras políticas que não dão os grandes saltos em frente. E eu ouso usar a palavra impronunciável, a palavra federalismo. Nós precisamos de soluções mais federais a nível europeu. Muito obrigado.
Mr. Prime Minister, it's good to see you here. It's good to see my colleague Paulo Rangel, who was also my great neighbor here. And not only my neighbor and a great neighbor, great philosopher that helped me understand the Atlantic spirit of Portugal.
Željana Zovko
Croatia and Portugal share a strong maritime heritage and common responsibility for Europe's future. I'm very pleased that you will join the Med9 summit tomorrow in Split, where I live, where our countries can turn shared Mediterranean priorities into joint action. Not only that Split is the most beautiful town in Croatia, but one Mostarian wrote the best book on Mediterranean philosophy. Mediterranean has shared identities, shared cultures, but also this doesn't mean that it has to be confronting. Our cooperation can advance the three priorities of Croatia's Med9 presidency: a safer, more sustainable, and more resilient Mediterranean.
A safer Mediterranean requires coordinated action to protect our borders, combat trafficking, and manage migration. And security in the Adriatic, the Western Balkan, and our southern neighborhood is closely linked. I wish you a well and good, fruitful meetings there in Split and hopefully to find also common understanding on our shared future.
Thank you very much, Ms. Zovko. Bruno Gonçalves, one minute.
Bruno Gonçalves
Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, seja bem-vindo ao Parlamento Europeu e saiba desde já que os deputados socialistas estarão ao seu lado para que Portugal não tenha um cêntimo a menos no próximo quadro comunitário.
Mas a defesa da coesão exige mais do que boas intenções, exige liderança. Na negociação do quadro anterior, António Costa percorreu as capitais europeias, liderou um grupo de 17 primeiros-ministros em defesa da coesão e reuniu os principais líderes europeus em Lisboa. Foi assim que se ganhou força negocial. Hoje, o seu governo chega tarde a Bruxelas como tem chegado tarde aos problemas dos portugueses, da crise dos combustíveis à habitação. E parafraseando o seu Ministro dos Negócios Estrangeiros, não é com cartas a Bruxelas que os vai resolver.
E sim, Portugal precisa de recursos, mas também precisa de saber o que fazer com eles. Por isso pergunto-lhe: qual é a sua visão para o fundo da competitividade? Que critérios geográficos defende? E como garante que esses fundos aumentam de facto a produtividade? Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, os portugueses deixaram o Luís trabalhar, mas enquanto não houver visão em Lisboa, os resultados não vão aparecer desde Bruxelas.
Obrigado.
Thank you, Mr. Gonçalves. Now, Sebastião Bugalho, one and a half minutes.
Madam President, fellow members, Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, Senhora Comissária, Senhor Ministro. Ser europeu é fazer o oposto do que a maioria esperava, mas que todos sabiam que tinha de ser feito. Se aceitarmos essa definição, não encontramos governo mais europeu do que o português.
Sebastião Bugalho
Na imigração, as nossas reformas fizeram cair o tráfico humano para metade e deram resposta a 583 mil processos por regularizar. Sim, senhores deputados, havia um país europeu com meio milhão de migrantes à margem do Estado e houve um governo europeu que lhes deu resposta. Na habitação, entregamos 30 mil casas e ajudamos mais de 120 mil jovens a adquirirem o seu primeiro lar. Fizemos o oposto do que a maioria esperava, mas o que todos sabiam que tinha de ser feito. Na gestão da água e na criação de um mecanismo de resseguros contra catástrofes, Portugal não avançou só ao lado da Europa, mas antes dela.
E há duas semanas, a Presidente da Comissão defendeu aqui a europeização de medidas que nasceram no nosso país, com o nosso governo. Fizemos mais uma vez o oposto do que se esperava, mas que todos reconhecem que tem de ser feito. Somos um país da coesão que não abdica da competitividade. Somos uma economia competitiva que não abdica da sua coesão. Num mundo cada vez mais hostil, o Médio Oriente tornou-se determinante para a estabilidade global, sentimos todos.
E há um país que assumiu um papel pivotal na relação do Conselho de Segurança com os países do Golfo: Portugal. Hoje, Senhor Primeiro-Ministro, recebemo-lo com a tranquilidade de sabermos que vamos continuar a fazer o que é necessário quando outros esperam e desejavam o contrário. Muito obrigado.
Now, Marko Vešligaj, one minute.
Marko Vešligaj
Hvala, predsjedavajuća. Poštovani premijeru, što nam je danas Europa? Požari, suše, ratovi, nesigurnost. A gdje su institucije koje bi tu trebale biti za ljude? Prečesto zakazuju.
I zato im ljudi sve manje vjeruju. To je i poruka svima nama. Vatrogasci, poljoprivrednici, učenici, žene koje traže sigurnost, veći gradovi, manji gradovi, ruralne zajednice, svi nam govore isto: sami ne možemo. Zato Europa ne može biti samo tržište, konkurentnost, proračun. Trebamo ponovno izgraditi osjećaj solidarnosti i zajednice koja brine o onima kojima je to najpotrebnije.
Jer bio netko umirovljenik, radnik, student, svatko zaslužuje dom, svatko zaslužuje pravo na pošten dohodak i čist okoliš. I za to se danas bore ljudi diljem Europe, od moje Hrvatske preko Francuske, Španjolske do Portugala. I za tu Europu vrijedi se boriti zajedno s našim građanima. Hvala.
Can I please ask the colleagues who are coming in to listen to their colleagues now? Ms. Ana Catarina Mendes, one minute.
Thank you very much.
Ana Catarina Mendes
Muito obrigada, senhora presidente, senhora comissária, senhor primeiro-ministro, senhor ministro dos Negócios Estrangeiros. Saúdo a presença no coração da democracia europeia precisamente para lhe dizer o orgulho de 40 anos de integração de Portugal na União Europeia e da forma como fomos capazes de consolidar a nossa democracia, dar novas oportunidades aos nossos cidadãos e trazer desenvolvimento ao nosso país. E é por isso que lhe exijo desta bancada, senhor primeiro-ministro, uma resposta concreta e europeia às questões da habitação. Portugal foi o país onde mais aumentou a habitação no último ano, senhor primeiro-ministro, e não dá para rir. Sabe porquê, senhor primeiro-ministro?
Porque hoje em dia as pessoas não conseguem viver com os salários que têm para pagar o aumento do custo de vida e o aumento da habitação.
E senhor Primeiro-Ministro, aproveito para que diga aqui qual é a sua visão para a Europa, como é que Portugal quer continuar a contribuir para uma Europa forte, que não deixa ninguém para trás e que isso não seja um slogan, senhor Primeiro-Ministro, porque em Portugal há neste momento quem esteja mesmo a ficar para trás. São aqueles que não conseguem comprar uma casa neste momento ou alugar uma casa porque o senhor Primeiro-Ministro decidiu dar as mãos à extrema-direita para aprovar uma lei de arrendamento que é uma lei que permite despejar as pessoas sem dó nem piedade. Por uma Europa solidária, senhor Primeiro-Ministro.
Roberta Metsola
Dear Prime Minister, the floor, dear Prime Minister, I give you back the floor to respond to the many points that have been made, as you can see, very lively debate, welcome again.
Luís Montenegro
Muito obrigado, senhora Presidente, muito obrigado a todos os senhores deputados intervenientes. É com muito gosto que partilho aqui alguns pontos de vista sobre as questões que suscitaram, com o mesmo gosto com que estarei na próxima sexta-feira na Assembleia da República, no Parlamento português, a responder aos deputados portugueses sobre a concreta realidade da vida do país, como é minha obrigação. Deixar-vos quatro reflexões finais.
A primeira sobre o quadro financeiro plurianual, as questões da coesão, as questões da política agrícola comum, as questões da competitividade. Para reiterar que a nossa perspetiva não é de estar aqui a pedir nada. A nossa perspetiva é de construir uma Europa onde os cidadãos, as organizações e as empresas tenham as mesmas oportunidades, partilhem um mercado que é comum. E um mercado que é comum que valoriza os consumidores daqueles que têm maior capacidade produtiva. A solidariedade hoje, a coesão hoje, são um sinónimo de valorização do mercado interno, de valorização das economias mais fortes também.
E mais, e a coesão territorial é essencial à promoção da estabilização climática e da luta contra as alterações climáticas. Porque se nós não tivermos a ousadia e o espírito solidário de ajudar aqueles que estão nas regiões menos desenvolvidas, essas regiões vão ficar cada vez mais desertificadas e, portanto, os seus territórios expostos àqueles que são os fenómenos climáticos mais extremos que depois exigem uma resposta de todos nós. A política de financiamento comunitário é essencial. Há aqueles que aqui manifestaram dúvidas sobre a união das poupanças e dos investimentos, a união bancária, e eu deixo esta questão.
Querem uma Europa que continue a alocar grande parte dos seus recursos para financiar aqueles que são, do ponto de vista comercial, os nossos principais concorrentes? Querem uma Europa que continue a depositar, por exemplo, nos mercados de capitais americanos o seu, a sua capacidade financeira que podia estar disponível para a nossa economia, para as nossas empresas e, por via disso, também para a melhoria das condições de vida dos nossos concidadãos? Porque financiar as empresas é estimular a inovação, é estimular a produtividade e é estimular o pagamento de melhores salários. É, portanto, dar condições de vida concretas a cada um dos cidadãos. É a primeira reflexão que vos deixo, reiterando aquilo que aqui disse sobre a importância geopolítica, não apenas de solidariedade, mas o que já não era pouco, mas a importância geopolítica do apoio às regiões ultraperiféricas.
A segunda questão, a questão da habitação. Qual é a minha perspetiva? A minha perspetiva é que a Europa pode dar um contributo no respeito por aquelas que são as responsabilidades dos Estados-Membros, mas pode dar um contributo através de legislação menos complexa, de simplificação e através também aí do aumento da capacidade de financiamento. Aproveitar toda a capacidade no perímetro das instituições europeias, talvez de uma forma mais preponderante do Banco Europeu de Investimentos, para podermos ter a capacidade de aumentar a oferta. A àqueles que aqui venham com lágrimas de crocodilo falar sobre as consequências sociais da falta de acesso à habitação, eu digo: sem oferta, o preço sobe.
E aqueles que têm dúvidas disso já experimentaram. Veja-se, por exemplo, aquilo que aconteceu numa cidade grande espanhola, em Barcelona. Quando se quis conter e limitar o funcionamento do mercado, mais imediatamente houve algum acréscimo de possibilidade de arrendar. Mas quando o mercado respondeu à limitação do seu funcionamento, o número de casas diminuiu e as rendas aumentaram cerca de 80%. Foi essa a consequência.
Quando o preço sobe, o acesso é mais limitado.
Portanto, valorizar a oferta, a oferta pública e a oferta privada. E dou o exemplo português. Quando cheguei ao governo, o governo que me antecedeu, do Partido Socialista, queria construir 26 mil casas, só deixou dinheiro para 16 mil no perímetro público. Nós aumentámos o objetivo para 59 e neste momento estamos a financiar com o Banco Europeu de Investimento mais 133 mil novas casas, reabilitadas ou construídas de novo, para que aqueles que têm mais vulnerabilidade possam ter acesso. Mas isso não chega.
A oferta pública tem de se conciliar com a oferta privada. Por isso estamos a diminuir os impostos para que haja mais construção. E por isso estamos também a estimular do lado da procura o acesso à habitação, mesmo nos sítios onde há mais pressão e as rendas são mais caras. Sim, em Lisboa há muita gente que paga 2 mil euros de renda. E estamos a falar de quem?
Estamos a falar de polícias. Há menos médicos, professores e polícias em Lisboa porque os preços da habitação são mais altos. E é preciso também do lado da procura intervir para garantir que através da fixação desses profissionais todos os cidadãos, nomeadamente aqueles que têm mais vulnerabilidade e mais dificuldade, possam ter uma resposta. Porque para haver uma resposta num centro de saúde, num hospital, numa esquadra de uma polícia, para haver uma resposta numa escola garantindo uma igualdade de oportunidades a todos, é preciso que os profissionais lá estejam mesmo nas zonas mais densas do ponto de vista populacional. O terceiro linha: imigração.
Estamos a falar de médicos. Estamos a falar de professores.
Sim, imigração. Nós temos a responsabilidade de ser além do mais uma fronteira externa da União Europeia. A imigração que nós defendemos é uma imigração regulada e humanista. Vale a pena vir para a Europa trabalhar se se vier por bem, se se vier pelos canais próprios. Vale a pena, já agora, vale a pena contestar e combater as redes ilegais de tráfico de seres humanos.
Mas isso só se faz conduzindo as pessoas para o cumprimento das regras. Das regras para virem com a garantia de trabalho, para as regras para virem com a garantia de ter uma habitação condigna e o acesso a cuidados de saúde.
E já agora também para garantir os cuidados de educação aos agregados familiares. Aquilo que foi muito muitos anos esquecido, mas que hoje está em funcionamento em Portugal e que naturalmente pressupõe que aqueles que não cumprem as regras devem retornar aos seus países de origem. A lei do retorno que o pacto das migrações da União Europeia prevê e que nós estamos a implementar em Portugal é a garantia de que vem por bem, cumpre as regras, fica. Não vem por bem, não cumpre as regras, vai para o seu local de origem. Só o cumprimento das regras também do retorno pode conduzir as pessoas a virem dentro daquilo que é o estabelecido por todos nós.
Uma última palavra sobre os jovens, sobre o futuro, sobre aquilo que nós temos de fazer para fixar na Europa o nosso capital humano. Nenhuma sociedade pode ser desenvolvida. A Europa não pode combater a força dos outros blocos comerciais, dos Estados Unidos da América, da China, dos países emergentes, das economias que têm mais potencial hoje, não pode fazê-lo se insistir na complexidade das regras, com certeza simplificação é um caminho de melhorar a competitividade, mas eu quero aqui dizer alto e bom som.
Se não tivermos a capacidade de ter entre nós os nossos melhores, o nosso talento, os nossos jovens qualificados. E se não tivermos até a capacidade de atrair alguns que venham dos outros blocos comerciais. Nós não podemos dar-nos ao luxo de exportar o nosso talento para que os outros sejam mais competitivos do que nós. Nós temos de apostar na inovação e temos de apostar na valorização dos nossos recursos humanos. Por isso em Portugal hoje paga-se menos impostos sobre o rendimento do trabalho.
Por isso em Portugal hoje nós estimulamos a economia baixando os impostos sobre as empresas para que elas possam inovar mais e para que elas possam pagar mais salários. Mas por isso, para os jovens em particular até aos 35 anos, nós temos um regime fiscal que lhes dá o acesso a 100% de desconto dos impostos sobre o rendimento do trabalho no primeiro ano de trabalho. A 75% no segundo, no terceiro e no quarto. A 50% de desconto no quinto, no sexto e no sétimo ano. A 25% de desconto dos impostos sobre o rendimento do trabalho no oitavo, no nono e no décimo ano de vida ativa.
Mas ao mesmo tempo damos isenção de impostos para a compra da primeira habitação.
E damos uma garantia pública para que possam comprar uma casa com 100% do financiamento para que os bancos possam emprestar-lhes aquilo que é necessário. Também para isso a União Bancária, a União Bancária como estímulo à igualdade de oportunidades, a uma sã concorrência é fundamental. E é por isso, senhores deputados, e é por isso, senhores deputados, que termino que em 2025, o ano passado, já fizemos regressar 69 mil imigrantes que estão hoje a reforçar os nossos quadros na nossa economia, nas nossas empresas, nas nossas instituições. Assim a Europa possa seguir também esta linha. Garanto-vos, se a Europa conseguir seguir esta linha, eu acho que nós podemos multiplicar os exemplos como aqueles que aqui trouxe, modéstia à parte, são mérito da sociedade portuguesa, das portuguesas e dos portugueses, das instituições portuguesas.
Uma economia que cresce mais, uma economia que gera riqueza, que garante que o Estado social funciona, uma economia que chega ao final do ano com contas públicas equilibradas e vamos para o quarto, quarto superavit consecutivo das nossas contas públicas, não aumentando um único imposto nem pondo na gaveta os investimentos públicos que são necessários à qualidade de vida das pessoas.
A nossa dívida vai acabar este ano abaixo dos 90% do nosso produto e felizmente no próximo ano a trajetória vai continuar assim. É com esta resistência e resiliência que nós nos apresentamos para a Europa, disponíveis para podermos ter a garantia de termos um espaço que valoriza a paz, que valoriza os direitos das pessoas, que garante a resposta social, que garante a prosperidade. Não há, não há nenhuma sociedade que possa combater a pobreza que aqui muitos quiseram evidenciar se não criar riqueza. O caminho que nós defendemos é criar riqueza para combater a pobreza. Bom trabalho.
Thank you. Thank you, Prime Minister. Thank you, thank you very much, Prime Minister.
Roberta Metsola
So, before we move to the votes, which will be presided over by Vice-President Zīle, I would like for you to give me a moment to address an incident that occurred in the European Parliament yesterday evening. So, a member of this House was filmed apparently damaging an exhibition commemorating the victims of the terrorist attack in Israel on October 7th. The person concerned was seen allegedly throwing the flag of Israel to the ground, a dropped flagpole, and the European Union flag was knocked down. Both flags were left lying on the ground before the member left the scene. I would like to underline that we take this extremely seriously and that all appropriate steps according to our procedures are being taken, including the right of the person concerned to be heard.
But I also want to make a wider point today. This House is a place where all of us must feel safe and secure. And we reject in the strongest possible terms any action by any person that feels or makes anyone feel less protected here.
We cannot have actions like this. We cannot have actions that could make people fearful of speaking, we cannot have damage to property, and we cannot have attempts to intimidate rather than to debate. So at a time of rising global antisemitism, we owe it to Europe's Jewish community to ensure that when they look to us, they see that this is their house too. So tomorrow we will mark another anniversary since that black October 7th three years ago and on your behalf, I will speak at the event and we will remember the victims with the dignity that they deserve. Now I know some colleagues have asked to take the floor on this point, I ask you to make it very short and very quick so that we go to the vote.
We start with Mr. Bellamy.
Madame la Présidente, demain marquera le troisième anniversaire des attentats du 7 octobre.
François-Xavier Bellamy
1180 victimes, dont plusieurs dizaines de citoyens européens. Et le peuple israélien tout entier, comme le peuple palestinien entraîné dans l'horreur par les islamistes du Hamas. Hier, à l'occasion d'un événement organisé par notre collègue Hildegard Bentele, Rima Hassan, vous l'avez rappelé, s'en est pris au drapeau israélien et au drapeau européen qu'elle a jeté par terre. Et à une personne qui l'interpellait, elle a répondu simplement : Israël n'existe pas. Personne ici ne nie le droit à la sécurité et à la dignité pour le peuple palestinien.
Mais il y a une force politique qui a décidé de nier ces droits pour le peuple israélien. Madame Hassan, nous ne vous laisserons pas faire. Ni vous, ni vos amis. Nous ne vous laisserons pas entraîner l'Europe dans la spirale d'antisémitisme, de haine et de violence où vous cherchez à la pousser. L'article 10, l'article 10 de notre règlement, Madame la Présidente, impose que chaque élu s'engage à respecter la dignité liée à son mandat.
L'histoire de l'Europe a commencé par dire que la dignité, c'est d'abord le respect dû aux morts.
Et demain, en commémorant les attentats du 7 octobre, nous nous engagerons à redire ensemble : plus jamais ça, plus jamais ça.
Merci, Monsieur Bellamy. Maintenant, Nathalie Loiseau.
Nathalie Loiseau
Madame la Présidente, je me réfère à l'article 10, encore, à la lutte contre l'antisémitisme, encore. Hier, dans cet hémicycle, Manon Aubry osait me donner des leçons de lutte contre l'antisémitisme. Hier, le même jour, un membre de son parti, Rima Hassan, mettait à bas un drapeau israélien et en même temps un drapeau européen. Alors les leçons d'antisémitisme de LFI, c'est de l'antisémitisme qu'ils pratiquent. Hier, dans cet hémicycle, je rappelais que le Rassemblement National est issu d'un parti créé par d'anciens Waffen-SS, a été présidé par Jean-Marie Le Pen, qui a été condamné pour antisémitisme.
Me dire que la veille du 7 octobre, il y a dans ce Parlement deux groupes politiques où l'antisémitisme a servi de colonne vertébrale, c'est insupportable.
C'est insupportable pour notre construction européenne qui est née des cendres de la Deuxième Guerre mondiale, qui est née des cendres de la Shoah et nous avions dit plus jamais ça. Alors en mémoire des des victimes de la Shoah, en mémoire des victimes du 7 octobre que nous commémorerons demain, je demande à tous les groupes politiques de retrouver de la décence, de se souvenir des valeurs fondamentales de l'Union européenne et de lutter vraiment sérieusement contre l'antisémitisme.
Rima Hassan
Madame la Présidente, chers collègues, je vais rappeler de façon très calme et apaisée les faits parce que vous avez vous-même repris des éléments qui sont factuellement faux. Ce qui s'est déroulé hier, c'est que j'ai assisté à une exposition, un événement qui est tout d'abord organisé en partenariat avec l'ambassade d'Israël. C'est un élément très important à rappeler.
Dans le cadre de ce partenariat avec l'ambassade d'Israël, qui est le porte-parole finalement de l'État israélien, il y a une exposition du drapeau israélien. Personne ici n'accepterait que le drapeau russe soit exposé. Et il est tout à fait normal de s'y opposer précisément au regard des crimes qui sont commis par la Russie. Israël, que vous le vouliez ou non, commet aujourd'hui un génocide, un crime d'apartheid qui est un crime contre l'humanité. Et on peut parfaitement, comme nous l'avons fait avec notre groupe, commémorer les victimes du 7 octobre sans s'associer à l'État israélien génocidaire.
Je veux également préciser, Madame la Présidente, non, c'est un élément très important. À l'occasion de cet événement est également vendue une carte d'Israël, du Grand Israël. Et quand nous avons posé la question aux organisateurs, ils nous ont répondu que le peuple palestinien n'existait pas, que la Palestine n'existait pas. Est-ce que ces propos sont conformes à la politique que vous défendez ici au sein des institutions européennes ? Je ne crois pas.
Donc je veux rappeler un dernier élément, Madame la Présidente. Je n'ai pas touché au drapeau européen. Il est simplement tombé après que le drapeau israélien ait été retiré.
Merci. Let me confirm that nothing was for sale and no commercialization was undertaken. I have two more speakers, quickly please. Ms. Chizzint. Annamaria Chizzint.
Vuole la parola.
Anna Maria Cisint
Grazie, grazie. Io sarò molto sintetica, però voglio dire che a differenza di quello che oggi ha detto la collega, abbiamo assistito a una gravissima, gravissima aggressione alle istituzioni.
La signora è già rinviata a giudizio per apologia del terrorismo e anche ieri ha appoggiato il terrorismo di Hamas. Inaccettabile. Gravissimo, sanzioni severe.
And the last colleague to take the floor will be Nicola Procaccini.
Nicola Procaccini
Presidente, ho sentito le parole della collega Hassan e sono ancora più indignato perché voler separare le vittime del 7 ottobre dalla loro nazionalità lo trovo ancora più vergognoso e criminale. Quegli uomini, quelle donne erano uomini e donne di Israele e sono stati uccisi sul territorio israeliano. Mentre vandalizzava la mostra, la collega Hassan urlava frasi senza senso del tipo che quella mostra sarebbe stata a senso unico. Evidentemente secondo la collega bisognava rappresentare anche il pensiero di coloro che hanno sgozzato la gola ad anziani, a ragazze che ballavano, a bambini di pochi mesi.
In questo modo sarebbe stato giustamente rappresentato entrambi i punti di vista. Io credo che la deriva islamista della sinistra sia ormai evidente e sia un evidente problema in tutta Europa e noi la contrasteremo. Questo è sicuro.
Colleagues, we continue with the vote now. But before that, dear colleagues, I would like to say that this week marks the 20th anniversary of the brutal assassination of Russian journalist and 2007 Sakharov Prize finalist Anna Politkovskaya, who tirelessly documented the human rights violations in her country.
Roberts Zīle
Today her granddaughter, Anna Victoria Politkovskaya, is among with us and I would like to warmly welcome her. Thank you, colleagues. Now I will continue in Latvian language. Pirmais ziņojums, Pascal Pierra kunga ziņojums par pieprasījumu atcelt Mario Ricchi imunitātei un balsojam par lēmumprojektu, kurš par? Kurš pret?
Atturas? Pieņemts. Nākamais ziņojums Tonino Piccula kunga un Ivar Ijaba kunga ziņojums par dinamiskas un ātras aizsardzības inovācijas programmu Agile, dodu vārdu līdzziņotājam Piccula kungam uz vienu minūti un pēc tam otram ziņotājam arī uz vienu minūti. Piccula kungs, lūdzu.
Thank you, thank you, Mr. President, dear colleagues. I am very pleased that just before the summer break we reached a political agreement on the program for Agile and rapid defense innovation. Today we need to adopt it in the plenary.
Tonino Picula
Agile is an important pilot program because it puts Europe's SMEs, startups, and scale-ups at the heart of defense innovation. The agreement maintains 115 million euros budget, SMEs focus and four-month time-to-grant objective, while aligning with member states' capability needs. European Parliament has shown again that it can respond quickly and take responsibility to reduce strategic dependencies and strengthen the resilience of our defense technological and industrial base. I also call on the Commission to present a single market for defense and communication. Defense procurement framework should be modernized too.
Finally, let me thank co-rapporteur Mr. Ijabs, shadow rapporteurs, our assistants and advisors for exemplary cooperation on this important file. Thank you.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you and sorry for the wrong pronunciation of your family, Mr. Picula. Tagad vārds līdzziņotājam Ivaram Ijabam vienai minūtei, lūdzu.
Yep. Thank you, Mr. President. Dear colleagues, every day of the Russian ongoing aggression in Ukraine shows how urgent the need to boost our own defense industries, especially regarding the innovation and new technologies. That's why the adoption of the Agile program is so timely and necessary now.
Ivars Ijabs
Let me just mention a few things where we were succeeding in reaching agreement with the Council in this file. First of all, the support for SMEs and startups. This is where defense innovation often happens. We want to keep them in Europe and to make Europe attractive to innovators. Second, we have to work productively with Ukrainians to involve them in our defense industrial ecosystem.
Third, this is the agility, as the name suggests. The program starts already early next year and I strongly encourage you, dear colleagues, to distribute the information about it among the innovators and SMEs in your member states to make it truly effective, truly competitive and above all, truly European in its scope. I would like to thank my co-rapporteur Tonino Picula, the shadow rapporteurs for this successful and really intense collaboration. Also my thanks goes to all advisors and assistants involved in the process. Thank you very much.
Paldies. Kolēģi, balsosim par priekšlikumu noraidīt Komisijas priekšlikumu, grozījums numur trīs, balsojums ir atklāts.
Roberts Zīle
Balsojums ir slēgts. Noraidīts. Provizoriskā vienošanās, grozījums numur divi, atklāta balsošana. Balsošana ir atklāta. Balsošana ir slēgta.
Pieņemts. Parlamenta pirmais lasījums ir pabeigts. Nākamais darba kārtības punkts, Lisbeth Zommer kundzes ziņojums par darba ņēmēju aizsardzību pret risku, kas saistīts ar kancerogēno un mutagēno iedarbību darbā, un dodu vārdu referentei kolēģei Zommerei uz divām minūtēm. Lūdzu.
Liesbet Sommen
Thank you, Chair. Dear colleagues, it is time that the EU becomes a project of hope again. We all need it in these very turbulent times. And colleagues, preventing people from getting cancer means providing hope. And every year around 120,000 workers in Europe are diagnosed with work-related cancer.
And these are people who simply went to work and became seriously ill by it. And I am proud to say that we reached an ambitious but balanced agreement here.
We strengthened the protection against dangerous substances on the work floor, but protection also needs to work in practice. And I visited a cobalt refinery in Finland and I spoke with workers, with trade unions, with employers. And I saw that protection and a competitive European industry can go hand in hand. And I have seen that social dialogue is so important. It leads to workable solutions on the ground and that matters.
We need our own European critical raw materials such as cobalt for our industry but also for our clean transition. And we want to protect the jobs for the people working in those industries. So the message today is very clear. We do not have to choose between protecting the workers or protecting our industry. We can do both.
And with this agreement, we prevent cancer and other serious diseases while giving companies the time, the clarity and the support that they need. Because no one should become seriously ill just by going to work. And that is why I all ask you to support this agreement. Thank you.
Roberts Zīle
Paldies, kolēģi, balsojam par provizorisko vienošanos, grozījums numur 46, atklāta balsošana, balsošana ir atklāta. Balsošana ir slēgta. Pieņemts, un Parlamenta pirmais lasījums līdz ar to ir pabeigts. Markus Ferber kunga un Carla Tavares kundzes ziņojums par saskaņošanu ar Eiropas Savienības ekonomiskās pārvaldības sistēmu un turpmāk minētās sistēmas vienkāršošanu, un arī dodu vārdu līdzziņotājam Ferber kungam uz vienu minūti un pēc tam tāpat otrai ziņotājai. Lūdzu.
Paldies.
Markus Ferber
Vielen Dank, Herr Präsident, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, wir erleben ja gerade sehr anschaulich, dass Fragen der wirtschaftspolitischen Steuerung auf der Tagesordnung stehen. Die Anleihemärkte senden ein klares Signal, bei den Staatsanleihen, bei den Staatsfinanzen in Europa läuft nicht alles rund, die Kosten für neue Schulden sind so hoch wie lange nicht mehr. Und in solchen Zeiten braucht Europa klare Regeln, die glaubwürdig, die verlässlich, aber die auch einfach anzuwenden sind. Genau das ist das, was wir miteinander vereinbart haben, Rat und Parlament, über was wir heute abstimmen. Unnötige Berichtspflichten werden gestrichen, Verfahren werden gestrafft, der Rahmen wird kohärent.
Den fiskalischen Kern lassen wir dabei unberührt, das heißt, die Sicherheit unserer Währung ist nicht gefährdet. Aber Regeln, und das sage ich auch ganz deutlich, sind nur so gut wie ihre Durchsetzung. Und deswegen, sehr geehrter Herr Kommissar, geht es auch darum, dass die Regeln angewandt werden. Und das ist Ihre Verantwortung. Bitte liefern Sie.
Vielen Dank.
Carla Tavares
Thank you, President. Thank you. Colleagues, I will speak in Portuguese. E começava, naturalmente, por agradecer ao colega Markus Ferber, correlator, bem como às equipas técnicas, toda a colaboração neste dossiê. Dizer também que este acordo para a simplificação das regras de governação económica mostra que simplificar não significa desregular.
Reduzimos o reporting excessivo, flexibilizámos prazos para governos entregarem os seus orçamentos e reduzimos as multas. Mas não só. Este pacote de simplificação preserva ainda o papel do Parlamento, reforça a dimensão social e dá condições mais favoráveis a investimentos nas áreas do social, clima, digital e defesa. E estas são prioridades críticas de investimento para enfrentarmos os desafios de uma Europa mais competitiva, mais justa e mais forte.
A reforma das regras de governação económica é, sem dúvida, um passo na direção certa, mas não resolve tudo. E caras e caros colegas, a Europa tem de se comprometer em ter recursos próprios para financiarmos o futuro orçamento da União à altura dos desafios que enfrentamos e não passarmos meses à volta de décimas e de 1% do rendimento nacional. A Europa tem de estar à altura da sua própria ambição. Muito obrigado.
Roberts Zīle
Paldies. Tagad balsosim par priekšlikumu noraidīt Komisijas priekšlikumu, respektīvi, grozījums numur trīs. Kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas?
Noraidīts. Provizoriskā vienošanās, balsojam grozījumu numur divi, atklāta balsošana un balsojums ir atklāts. Balsojums ir slēgts. Atbalstīts un Parlamenta pirmais lasījums līdz ar to ir pabeigts. Nākamais ziņojums, Markus Ferber kunga un Carlos Tavares kundzes ziņojums par eirozonas dalībvalstu ekonomisko un budžeta uzraudzību.
Vispirms tātad balsojam par priekšlikumu noraidīt Komisijas priekšlikumu, grozījums numur trīs. Kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas? Noraidīts.
Provizoriskā vienošanās, balsojam grozījumu numur divi, atklātā balsošana, balsojums ir atklāts.
Balsojums ir slēgts. Atbalstīts, Parlamenta pirmais lasījums ir pabeigts. Un vēl trešais ziņojums Markus Ferber un Karlo Tavareša ziņojums šoreiz par finansēšanas kārtību un diversificētas finansēšanas stratēģijas izmantošanu. Balsojums par piekrišanu, atklāta balsošana un balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta.
Pieņemts. Nākamais darba kārtības punkts Emma Wiesner kundzes ziņojums par dažu prasību vienkāršošanu telpiskās informācijas infrastruktūru savienībā. Dodu vārdu referentei uz divām minūtēm Wiesner kundze, lūdzu.
Thank you, Chair. Colleagues, we are addicted to fossil fuels. Almost 70% of Europe's energy is still fossil. If we're gonna get rid of that dependency, we need to change. The clothes we're wearing, our transport, the food we eat, the processes that industry is using, what we consume.
Emma Ytterell
We have fossil fuels everywhere. And we need a broad transition within our industry. In order to do so, our industry needs reliable information and faster permits. To do the right thing should be easy. It shouldn't take nine years to get a permit to build a windmill.
One individual woodpecker should not be allowed to block a whole decarbonisation of steel industry, and you should not need a team of experts to understand environment data. The green transition should have taken place preferably yesterday, and not after decades of waiting for paperwork. One of the first steps we are taking today, this law makes environment data available, accessible and comparable across Europe without unnecessary regulatory burden, without double regulation. This is simplification when simplification is at its best. Thank you.
Paldies. Kolēģi, balsojam atbildīgās komitejas grozījumus balsojums blokā 1 līdz 23. Kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas?
Atbalstīts. Grozījums 24, atklāta balsošana.
Roberts Zīle
Balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidīts. Balsojam komisijas priekšlikumu, atklātā balsošana. Balsošana ir sākusies.
Balsošana ir slēgta. Atbalstīts, un es dodu vēlreiz vārdu referentei Vīzneres kundzei.
Thank you so much, colleagues. I would hereby propose that this file to be referred back to the committee for interinstitutional negotiations in accordance with Rule 60, paragraph 4 in the Parliament's Rules of Procedure. Thank you.
Paldies. Balsojam par nodošanu atpakaļ komitejai. Kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas.
Atbalstīts. Ziņojums saskaņā ar 60. panta ceturto punktu ir nodots atpakaļ komitejai iestāžu sarunu risināšanai. Nākamais darba kārtības punkts - Estelles Kūlemans kundzes ziņojums par psihosociālajiem riskiem, stresu un psihoemocionālo veselību darbā.
Roberts Zīle
Sākam balsot ar grozījumu numur 10. Kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas. Es domāju, mēs pārbaudīsim.
Let's check. Balsojums ir slēgts. Atbalstīts. Līdz ar to grozījums 3 un punkts 4 sākotnējā tekstā ir noraidīti. Balsojam grozījumu numur 4.
Kurš... nē, es atvainojos, atklāta balsošana. Balsošana ir sākta. Balsošana slēgta. Noraidīts. Grozījums numur 5.
Atklāta balsošana. Balsošana ir sākta. Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidīts. Grozījums numur 1.
Kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas. Noraidīts. Grozījums numur 6.
Atklāta balsošana. Balsošana ir sākusies.
Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidīts. Sākotnējais teksts, punkts numur 17, divās daļās. Balsojam pirmā daļa, kurš par? Kurš pret?
Atturas. Pieņemts. Otrā daļa, kurš par? Kurš pret? Noraidīts.
Grozījums numur septiņi, atklāta balsošana. Balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidīts. Līdz ar to balsojam par grozījumu numur 11, kurš par?
Kurš pret? Atturas. Noraidīts. Balsojam par 18. punktu, sākotnējo tekstu, divās daļās. Pirmā daļa, kurš par?
Kurš pret? Atturas. Pieņemts. Otrā daļa, kurš par? Kurš pret?
14. norāde, sākotnējais teksts, kurš lūdzu par? Kurš pret? Atturas. Pamēģinām vēlreiz, kurš par 14. punktu norādes sākotnējo tekstu? Kurš pret?
Atturas. Noraidīts.
Atturas, pieņemts. Nē, nav, sorry, kolēģi, let's check, let's check. 14. norāde, sākotnējais teksts, atklāts balsojums. Balsojums slēgts. Pieņemts.
AF apsvērums, sākotnējais teksts, kurš par? Kurš pret? Atturas, pieņemts. Grozījums numur 2, balsojam atklāti, tātad balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta.
Noraidīts. Pielikums, sākotnējais teksts, atklāta balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Pieņemts. Pielikuma ievaddaļa, sākotnējais teksts divās daļās.
Pirmā daļa, atklāta balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Pieņemts. Otrā daļa, balsošana ir sākusies.
Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidģts. Pielikuma pirmais ieteikums sākotnējais teksts divās daĶās. Pirmā daĶa, atklātā balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta.
Pieņemts. Otrā daĶa, atklātā balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidģts. Grozģjums numur astoņi, atklātā balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies.
Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidģts. Pielikuma vienpadsmitais ieteikums sākotnējais teksts, atklātā balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Pieņemts.
Grozģjums numur deviņi, atklātā balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies.
Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidīts. Pielikuma 16. ieteikums, sākotnējais teksts trīs daļās. Pirmā daļa, atklātā balsošana. Balsošana sākusies.
Balsošana slēgta. Noraidīts. Otrā daļa, atklātā balsošana. Balsošana sākusies. Balsošana slēgta.
Noraidīts. Trešā daļa, atklātā balsošana. Sākusies balsošana. Balsošana slēgta. Pieņemts.
Tātad balsojam par rezolūciju kopumā, atklātā balsošana. Balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana slēgta. Pieņemts, atbalstīts.
Kolēģi, vēlos atgādināt, ka deputātiem, kuri ir pirmo pēcpusdienā paredzēto debašu runātāju sarakstā, jāpaliek sēžu zālē, jo debates uzreiz sāksies pēc balsojuma. Un balsojam par pēdējo ziņojumu šodienas balsošanas sesijā, Kinga Kollāra kundzes ziņojums Eiropas Savienības pieeja uzņēmumu ienākuma nodokļa politikai mainīgajā starptautiskajā vidē, un dodu vārdu Kollāras kundzei uz divām minūtēm.
Kinga Kollár
Tisztelt elnök úr, tisztelt képviselőtársaim! Az európai vállalkozások azt várják tőlünk, hogy végre lélegezni tudjanak. A túlszabályozás elkerülését, kevesebb adminisztrációs terhet és nagyobb védelmet a tisztességtelen versennyel szemben. Az adózás terén különösen igazak ezek az elvárások. Ezért az európai adópolitikának egyszerre kell biztosítani a fair adóztatást és Európa versenyképességét.
Nem kell választanunk a kettő közül, mindkettőre szükségünk van. A globális minimumadó nagyban hozzájárult ahhoz, hogy ne érje meg pusztán adózási előnyök miatt mozgatni a tevékenységeket és a profitot.
Most itt az ideje, hogy elvégezzük a saját házi feladatunkat. Szüntessük meg az egymást átfedő adójogszabályokat, és célzott, jogszerű adókedvezményekkel tartsuk Európában az innovatív vállalkozásokat. Ez a Bizottság adózási könnyítési csomagja jó irányba tett lépés, de a hatálybaléptetési sebességet gyorsítani kell. Ahhoz pedig, hogy választ tudjunk adni az olyan égető kihívásokra, mint a digitális szolgáltatások adózása, összehangoltabb és erőteljesebb európai érdekérvényesítésre van szükség a nemzetközi fórumokon. Képviselőtársaim, a cél világos: kevesebb, de jobb szabály, tisztességesebb adózás és versenyképesebb Európa.
Kérem önöket, hogy támogassák a jelentést. Köszönöm.
Roberts Zīle
Paldies, kolēģi, balsojam par grozījumu numur viens, atklāta balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Noraidīts, un balsojam par rezolūciju kopumā, atklāta balsošana, balsošana ir sākusies. Balsošana ir slēgta. Pieņemts, paldies, kolēģi.
Colleagues, please continue your after-voting debate outside of the hemicycle, if I may ask you. Thank you. Kolēģi, turpinām mūsu darba kārtību, un nākamais darba kārtības punkts: Padomes un Komisijas paziņojumi — Cenas ziņā pieejamu mājokļu akts. Un es došu vārdu Padomes vārdā ministram Byrne kungam iesākt šo debati. Lūdzu.
Before you will take the floor, Minister, so just colleagues, please continue your debates outside of the hemicycle. We continue the debate in plenary. So thank you very much. Minister, the floor is yours.
Thomas Byrne
And thank you, Vice-President, honorable members, Commissioner.
The housing crisis has become one of the most pressing social and economic challenges facing citizens across Europe. In October 2025, the European Council recognized the scale and urgency of the challenge and called on the Commission to swiftly present an ambitious and comprehensive plan for affordable housing. This was an important political signal that housing is no longer confined to being a national issue, but rather it has become a matter of common European concern. Access to adequate and affordable housing is impacting the lives of our citizens, particularly the young and the vulnerable, and their full participation in society and in our economy. When housing becomes unaffordable, people's ability to find work, to move for employment, to start a family and access education is affected, as is their capacity to stay in their communities where they have established their lives.
Our presidency will have an informal meeting of housing ministers this year. We know that there is a housing crisis across Europe and if we don't address this crisis, it weakens social cohesion, it threatens competitiveness, it weakens labor and social mobility.
Ireland's presidency is determined to do everything we can to work with our EU partners to make a positive contribution on housing. And indeed, the Council conclusions of June last rightly underlined the links between housing and demographics, including aging, smaller households, and urbanization. Across Europe, the challenge is not just a shortage of homes. It's a shortage of affordable, suitable, and accessible homes in the places where people need them. Rising housing costs are having a particularly negative impact on young people, families, low and middle-income households, and essential workers.
Those conclusions that I mentioned explicitly identify these groups among those disproportionately affected. Housing affordability is also increasingly impacting EU competitiveness. Businesses need to be able to attract and retain workers. Regions need to be able to attract investment. Young people need to be able to access employment and education without being priced out of the places where the opportunities exist.
If housing costs prevent workers from moving jobs, moving from where jobs are available, this can restrict labor mobility and exacerbate regional inequalities. So, addressing housing affordability is not just about addressing cost.
It is also an investment in Europe's economic and social resilience. It's with that mindset that the Irish presidency is setting about its work on the new proposal for a regulation establishing a framework for measures in member states to safeguard housing affordability and availability, published by the Commission on the 9th of September last. The proposal aims to support public authorities in identifying areas of housing stress and to take measures to protect housing affordability in those areas, including in relation to short-term rentals. The Council has very recently started discussing the proposal at technical level, and thorough examination of the proposal will continue in the coming months. We look forward to following this debate today in the Parliament on the Commission proposal, so that when the time comes to start inter-institutional negotiations, we want to arrive at a result that meets the expectations of European citizens on such a pressing matter.
Thank you very much.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you very much, Minister. And now I would like to ask to take the floor for the Commission, Commissioner Jørgensen, the floor is yours.
Honorable members, dear friends. What makes a city a city? Is it the buildings? Is it the architecture?
Dan Jørgensen
Is it the landmarks? No, it is the citizens. There is no Paris without Parisians. There is no Rome without Romans. A city is defined by its citizens.
And a city needs its citizens. The sanitation workers who clean our streets, the bus drivers who take us from A to B, the students and young people who bring old life to old, new life to old neighborhoods. But today, too many of these people are being pushed out of their communities. Because homes are not affordable to buy. Because housing is not affordable to rent.
And let me be clear. Short-term rentals, second homes, and vacant properties are not the root cause of these problems, but in some parts of Europe, including in some of our biggest cities, they do contribute to this problem.
They are a part of the challenge. Since I took office, this issue has been raised time and time again by many of you here in Parliament. It has also been raised by mayors and ministers from cities, regions, and countries across Europe. They've told me that they want to take action, but that they lack the legal certainty and that they fear litigation. With the Affordable Housing Act, we aim to replace this fear with freedom.
We provide legal certainty. We set out common criteria to identify areas under housing stress. We give cities, member states, and regions the opportunities to take action that they need, which are adequate and proportionate. Brussels will not decide which areas should be targeted or which measures should be introduced. Those decisions will remain local, regional, and to the national authorities.
And with the support of this act, they can make their decisions with greater confidence and with the best interests of their people in mind. As I said, short-term rentals, second homes, and vacant properties are not the sole cause of Europe's housing crisis, but in some places, they are a part of the problem. In the same way, this act is not the whole solution, but it is a part of the solution. Together, we must keep working to boost investments and supply, to address speculation and support the most vulnerable, and to cut red tape. But in the meantime, with this act, we can already support the areas that are suffering the most.
We can already make the best use of existing buildings, and we can already make a real difference in real time to ensure that housing is used first and foremost for the people to live in, and to ensure that cities belong first and foremost to their citizens. Thank you.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you very much, Commissioner. Colleagues, now I will give a floor for EPP Group, will speak Nikolina Brnjac. Floor is yours.
Thank you very much. Poštovani predsjedavajući, kolegice i kolege. Poštovani povjereniče. U Europskoj uniji nam nedostaje 10 milijuna stambenih jedinica.
Nikolina Brnjac
I zato sam od akta o priuštivom stanovanju očekivala puno više. U planu za priuštivo stanovanje 2025. upravo vi ste najavili ograničavanje kratkoročnog najma i promicanje priuštivosti u područjima pod stambenim pritiskom, upravo kroz pojednostavljenje administrativnih postupaka, kao što su planiranje i izdavanje dozvola. Nažalost, za brže izdavanje dozvola, više gradnje za obnovu, prenamjenu postojećih zgrada i mobilizaciju investicija, dobili smo neobvezujuću preporuku. Ali još je veće razočarenje uredba. Prvo, tražili smo da se za ograničavanje kratkoročnog najma uvaži činjenica da je za mnoge naše građane takvo iznajmljivanje važan izvor prihoda i naglasili smo da takve mjere ne smiju odvratiti turizam.
Ali daleko najveći problem je da uredba uvodi mogućnost ograničavanja korištenja ili kupnje druge nekretnine. Takva mjera nije bila niti tražena, niti najavljena, niti će biti prihvaćena. Jednostavno ne dolazi u obzir da se kažnjavaju građani koji su svoju ušteđevinu uložili u kupnju druge nekretnine. Ako je ideja uredbe bila ograničiti špekulaciju, onda je to trebalo jasno tako i propisati.
U teoriji, akt o priuštivom stanovanju omogućava donošenje mjera koje moraju biti nužne i proporcionalne. A u praksi šta to znači? Da ako donesene mjere ne budu takve, na građanima je obveza da sudski dokazuju da smiju raspolagati svojom vlastitom nekretninom. E pa povjereniče, Europska povelja o temeljnim pravima garantira svim našim građanima pravo na vlasništvo nad zakonito stečenom imovinom. Nažalost, akt o priuštivom stanovanju dovodi u pitanje to temeljno pravo.
Akt je trebao doprinijeti rješavanju problema za naše građane, a ne stvoriti nove probleme. Jer ako želimo riješiti krizu priuštivog stanovanja, moramo omogućiti da se gradi više, brže i jednostavnije, a prijedlogom ove uredbe nažalost dobivamo upravo suprotno: više birokracije, manje sigurnosti za naše građane. Hvala.
Irene Tinagli
Thank you, Chair. Dear Commissioner, dear colleagues, when the Socialists and Democrats first called for action on housing, many, including in this House, did not see it as a significant problem.
They said it was not even a European problem. But I think that today nobody would dare to say so, because everybody can see it's an emergency, everybody can see it's affecting millions of European citizens, and most importantly, we see that these citizens are asking concrete answers. That's what we need to deliver. Of course, European institutions cannot replace Member States, we don't want to replace Member States, we can't, but they can provide tools and directions. That's what the Affordable Housing Act is about.
It's a key step in this direction. It does not impose anything on anyone. It respects subsidiarity and autonomy of the cities and regions, but gives mayors possibilities, tools to act. But above all, it affirms a crucial principle: access to housing is, like healthcare and education, a common good that is essential to keep the functioning of our society, our cities, and therefore it must be protected. Thank you.
Klara Dostalova
Vážený pane komisaři, kolegyně, kolegové, za pár dní v České republice se nás čekají komunální volby.
A lidé se mě logicky ptají: „Paní poslankyně, bydlení je drahé, je to asi jeden z nejpalčivějších problémů, bytů je málo, co pro nás může udělat Evropská unie?“ Ale upřímně, po přečtení návrhu fakt nevím, co jim odpovědět. Asi že pokud obec prokáže, že se nachází v oblasti pod tlakem na bydlení, splní stanovené podmínky a příslušná opatření projdou evropským rámcem proporcionality, pak bude mít větší prostor přijmout některá opatření na místním trhu s bydlením. No tak to se lidem určitě uleví. Jen se obávám, že mladá rodina, která si nemůže dovolit byt, čekala trochu jinou odpověď.
Například, že se postaráme o to, aby se stavělo více bytů, že zjednodušíme evropské fondy, uvolníme pravidla veřejné podpory, přivedeme soukromé investice, zrychlíme výstavbu a podíváme se na evropskou legislativu, která ji prodražuje. A k dostupnému bydlení nesmí být další případ, kdy na velmi jednoduchou otázku občana odpovíme velmi složitým evropským mechanismem. Lidé se ptají prostě, kde budou bydlet. Neměli bychom jim odpovídat definicí „oblast s napětím na trhu bydlení“. A to ani nemluvě o tom, jak obrovskou administrativní zátěž tím klademe na bedra měst a obcí.
Bydlení není potřeba regulovat, pane komisaři, ale podpořit. Děkuji.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you. For ECR Group will speak Vice-President Antonella Sberna.
Floor is yours, Antonella.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie Presidente, Commissario, colleghi. La Commissione ha avuto il merito di portare la casa al centro dell'agenda europea. Ha però scelto lo strumento sbagliato. In Europa mancano alloggi e il regolamento risponde limitando l'uso di quelli che ci sono. Commissario, il vostro testo ammette che le restrizioni non risolvono la carenza di alloggi, eppure è l'unica materia su cui il regolamento detta regole vincolanti.
Per decidere dove applicarle usa lo stesso indice in tutta Europa, senza distinguere tra una grande città, un centro storico o un'area rurale. Nei nostri borghi si finirebbe per colpire proprio le case che i fondi europei hanno aiutato a recuperare. Così l'Europa scarica le crisi sui sindaci e se ne lava le mani. La casa è competenza degli Stati membri e l'Europa può fare molto per aiutarli. Proponiamo di rovesciare questa impostazione.
Una ricetta che funziona esiste, ed esempio è quella italiana. Il governo guidato da Giorgia Meloni ha messo al centro una cosa semplice: recuperare le case e costruire. Rimette in uso 60.000 alloggi popolari inagibili, investe fino a 10 miliardi per 100.000 alloggi in 10 anni.
A chi costruisce offre procedure semplici con prezzi calmierati, prevede garanzie sui mutui anche per i giovani e governa gli affitti brevi con un codice nazionale, controlli digitali senza divieti. È la ricetta da seguire perché aumenta la fiducia e dà, aumenta l'offerta e dà fiducia a chi investe. Il nuovo regolamento metta al centro le misure che fanno crescere l'offerta, oggi confinate in una raccomandazione. La priorità sia rimettere in uso le case vuote, a partire da quelle pubbliche, renda operativa la garanzia europea per i giovani oggi allo studio della BEI e conceda più flessibilità di bilancio per gli investimenti in edilizia agevolata. Su questa strada il Parlamento è pronto a lavorare con la Commissione fin da subito.
Grazie.
Ciaran Mullooly
Commissioner, Minister, the rising costs of housing has become one of the defining political challenges of a generation. Minister, in your own county, Annette Clarke from St Vincent de Paul in Navan in County Meath told me that where once they were asked to help with food and heat, today they're being asked to help with rent and eviction notices. In County Galway, Karina, mother of seven, tells me that six children still live at home, the eldest is 29. They've all good jobs but they can't move out because the average price of a house is 400,000.
So while the aims of the EU Affordable Housing Act to deal with areas under housing stress are admirable, you know, Commissioner, there's more work to be done. Vulture funds, you talked about doing something on this next year. Let's bring it on as quickly as we can to deter, to try and get in there and bring down the price of a house. Because that's what we must do. We must act quicker and easier to try and build and renovate homes.
How can we do that? Let us try and bring forward legislation in this area. But also at member state level, let us look at VAT as well. Let us look at ways in which we can bring down the cost of building our new homes and deal with this serious issue. Thank you.
Vicent Marzà Ibáñez
Señorías, la paciencia de la gente ha terminado. Escuchen a la gente que está en la calle. Escuchen a la gente que está acampando en Valencia, en Alacant, en Madrid. No pueden más. No pueden más de matarse a trabajar para transferir todo su sueldo a los rentistas.
No pueden más de matarse a trabajar para acabar alquilando una pequeñísima habitación en un piso compartido minúsculo. La gente joven no puede ni soñar en emanciparse. Hay trabajadores públicos que están renunciando a trabajos porque no se pueden pagar el alquiler en la zona, en el pueblo donde tienen que trabajar. Hay gente mayor a la que se le está expulsando desde su casa después de estar pagando 50 años religiosamente su alquiler. ¿Por qué?
Porque es más rentable poner ese piso y echar a una mujer jubilada para que se haga negocio con los pisos de alquiler. Mientras ellos duermen en la calle, ustedes lo que plantean es una serie de actividades legislativas, burocráticas, con muy buena intención, pero que no les resuelven el problema ahora. Les piden que esperen. ¿Esperar a qué? ¿A que nadie pueda pagar ya nunca el alquiler?
Deben despertar. Despertar y prohibir de verdad que los fondos buitre no puedan comprar casas, que de verdad hagamos, ampliemos el parque asequible de vivienda y que protejamos la vida y no a aquellos que especulan con ella. Si hacen eso ahora, tendrán nuestros votos y el apoyo de la mayoría de la ciudadanía europea. Si no lo hacen, nos tendrán en la calle con la gente que está luchando por una vivienda digna.
Leila Chaibi
Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues, il y a 20 ans, jour pour jour, avec des galériens du logement, nous fondions le collectif Jeudi Noir pour faire baisser les loyers en éclatant la bulle immobilière. Nous occupions des immeubles vides accaparés par des banques et des compagnies d'assurance. Et pour nous faire entendre, nous lancions des confettis sur les ministres du logement et les propriétaires véreux. Je vous avoue que ce matin, j'étais tentée de venir avec des confettis dans mes poches et de vous en lancer ici à des poignées à la figure. Car 20 ans plus tard, rien n'a changé.
Tout a empiré. Des vieilles dames sont expulsées par des fonds vautours. Les loyers explosent. Un salaire ne suffit plus pour se loger dignement. De la Puerta del Sol à Paris, une vague populaire immense se lève en clamant qu'un logement est un droit, pas un actif financier.
Les solutions, nous les répétons depuis 20 ans : encadrer les loyers, construire des logements sociaux, mobiliser les logements vacants, combattre la spéculation. Mais toutes ces mesures, il est grand temps de les appliquer aujourd'hui. Aujourd'hui, plutôt qu'avec des confettis, je vous le dis avec des mots, collègues de droite, Madame von der Leyen, Monsieur le Commissaire, cessez d'engraisser la rente immobilière et faites du logement un droit.
V celej Únii je obrovský problém s bývaním, ale hlavne, že na ubytovanie a prijímanie imigrantov išlo dokopy už viac než 100 miliárd eur. Hlavne, že dávate desiatky miliárd eur do bývania v takzvaných marginalizovaných komunitách, pričom len na Slovensku išlo do osád viac ako miliarda eur. A výsledok? Žiadny. Premrhané peniaze.
Milan Uhrík
Ja sa pýtam, prečo nedáte tieto peniaze na podporu bývania pre všetkých slušných ľudí? Prečo nezoberiete tých 800 miliárd eur, ktoré chcete dať teraz na nákupy zbraní a rakiet na vojnu proti Rusku a nepresuniete to do podpory dostupnosti bývania pre všetkých slušných ľudí? Prečo nezatlačíte na banky, aby dávali mladomanželom pri prvej hypotéke nižšie úroky, ako to bolo kedysi v našich krajinách, kedy bývali takzvané mladomanželské pôžičky? Prečo nezatlačíte na developerov, aby nedržali byty úmyselne a vedome prázdne kvôli špekuláciám s cenami? Riešenia sú, ale to, čo ponúka Únia, je naozaj len ďalšia byrokracia.
Ale riešenia sú rázne a potrebné a my sme ich pripravení priniesť. Ďakujem pekne.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you, colleagues. Before I will give a floor to Commissioner, I would like to say that we have a lot of speakers requested Catch-the-eye, that's why we are closing Catch-the-eye procedure. So now I would like to ask to take floor again Commissioner Jørgensen. Floor is yours.
Dan Jørgensen
Are short-term rentals inherently a problem? No. I actually think that it is a great idea.
It makes it easier for people to travel. For some people, the income that they can get renting out a room or an apartment some nights can actually be the income that they need to be able to stay where they stay. But we've seen an increase in short-term rentals, especially in some cities in Europe, that has moved away from that original idea and made it a business model. So that what we see is de facto buildings being bought with that sole purpose of having short-term rentals. Short-term rentals that are actually shadow hotels.
It's never been the purpose. And if cities want to do something about this because it's driving people out of their municipalities, then of course they should be able to. Today, unfortunately, they are not. They don't have the legal clarity. Some say, is this even a European matter?
Well, there's two answers to that question: a bureaucratic one and a political one. The bureaucratic one is yes, this is about capital, this is about services. So yes, of course, it's internal market.
The political answer is that yes, this is on the top of our citizens' list of concerns, the lack of affordable housing. So obviously we need to deal with this. Now with regards to second homes, buildings, apartments, houses that are being bought sometimes as a commodity, instead of buying gold you buy an apartment and then you hope that it'll increase in value. Okay, if you want that in your city, if you want that in your country, if you think this is healthy, keep it. But if you don't, if you think that maybe you want to do something about this, if you think that maybe it's difficult to explain to your citizens that there's a lack of housing but every third house is empty, then of course you should have the possibility to do something about it.
We don't force cities to do anything. We don't force member states to do anything, but we provide them with an opportunity and a possibility to fight one of the biggest challenges that they have. Thank you.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you, thank you very much. Because now the floor will go to Dirk Hotting. The floor is yours.
Dirk Gotink
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Commissioner.
I'm happy that I was after your first clarification because we can go a bit deeper now, because I think everyone does agree we are in a massive housing crisis. Now, what I don't want to do, Mr. Commissioner, is to create an alibi for failing national governments on housing policies. And I fear that if we take this road that you are proposing now, this is very much a possibility. Because when I look at the Affordable Housing Act in relation to the short-term rentals or the second homes, I have very difficulty to find the affordable in it. So it doesn't build a house, it doesn't repurpose an empty building, it doesn't actually do something to increase the supply.
It is working on the demand side of things, which I believe, and the data shows, even when you look at rent controls and all the other things that people have tried, they have failed to increase supply. Now, housing is not an EU competence. It's something that is done on local, regional, and national levels. And this proposal builds a legal framework that somehow elevates it to this place, which I believe is very, very tricky. Because regional authorities and local authorities are already making rules about short-term rentals.
I mean, in Amsterdam, you can do 15 days only from your own home. There is no legal problem there.
They can do it themselves. So why do we need to create a legal framework that will inevitably create problems because Amsterdam is not the same thing as a village an hour from Amsterdam? Why do we try to create a unity where there is none, also not when it comes to countries in more touristic destinations in the south of Europe? So, in our from our perspective, you have a huge opportunity to make building easier. Do simplification as you promised.
That is what we expect from you and not to create a bureaucratic and legal construct which simply puts the ball on the 11-meter spot to create more polarization in local communities about housing policies. Thank you very much.
Andreas Schieder
Liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, die Wohnpreise sind zu einem großen Problem geworden in Europa. Für die Jugend, die kein eigenes Leben starten kann, aber auch für die Mittelschicht, die sich offensichtlich das Leben und die Wohnungen, die sie sich wünschen, nicht mehr leisten kann. Und ein Problem dabei ist eben diese Short-Term-Rentals-Modelle, weil sie das Angebot an leistbarem Wohnraum verkürzen. Und wenn das Angebot verkürzt wird, dann steigt der Preis.
Und das trifft genau die Mittelschicht, die sich das Leben in den Zentren und in den Städten nicht mehr leisten kann. Und deswegen ist es wichtig, dass mit diesem Affordable Housing Act jetzt ein Rechtsform geschaffen wird, dass die Bürgermeisterinnen und Bürgermeister unserer Städte die Maßnahme ergreifen können, die sie für richtig halten, um dagegen anzukämpfen. Endlich Freiheit für die Bürgermeister, damit sie gegen diesen Irrlauf des Marktes ankämpfen können. Das ist gut und wichtig. Und genauso müssen wir auch die Spekulation bekämpfen, weil auch die Spekulation den leistbaren Wohnraum und das Angebot an leistbarem Wohnraum bekämpft.
Wir Sozialdemokraten, wir stehen für leistbare Wohnbaupolitik in Europa, in den Nationalstaaten und in unseren Städten.
Julie Rechagneux
Face à la crise du logement, certains États européens ont déjà fait le choix de donner la priorité à ceux qui ont un lien durable avec leur territoire. À Vienne, l'accès au logement social est conditionné à une durée minimale de résidence. Aux Pays-Bas, les communes peuvent privilégier les habitants ayant un ancrage local. En Pologne, l'accès de certains ressortissants étrangers aux aides au logement dépend de leur statut de séjour. En France, il y a aujourd'hui près de 3 millions de demandes de logements sociaux.
Nous assumons donc d'aller plus loin. Nous voulons inscrire dans notre droit la priorité nationale afin que les Français soient prioritaires dans l'attribution de logements sociaux.
Et s'il faut pour cela modifier notre Constitution, et bien nous demanderons aux Français qu'ils se prononcent par référendum. Et je veux être très clair ici. Nous ne laisserons jamais la Commission européenne s'approprier la compétence du logement. Ce domaine doit par essence rester une compétence des États. C'est au peuple français et non à Bruxelles de décider à qui doit bénéficier en priorité la solidarité nationale.
Merci.
Georgiana Teodorescu
Thank you, Chair. Domnule comisar, dragi colegi, criza locuirii este una dintre cele mai mari probleme cu care se confruntă astăzi tinerii europeni. Prea mulți tineri nu își permit să plece de acasă, să își cumpere prima locuință sau să își întemeieze o familie. De aceea, nu ne confruntăm doar cu o criză a locuirii, ci și cu una demografică. Sunt de acord că avem nevoie de mai multe locuințe accesibile, dar nu pot susține o abordare care încalcă dreptul la proprietate privată și tratează proprietarii ca parte a problemei.
O familie care a muncit și și-a cumpărat o a doua locuință, poate pentru copii, și o închiriază pentru a-și completa veniturile, nu este dușmanul tânărului care își caută o primă casă. Mai mult, mă întreb dacă această propunere a Comisiei a ținut cont de recomandările Parlamentului European.
Raportul nostru a cerut măsuri concrete pentru creșterea ofertei, accelerarea autorizațiilor, reducerea costurilor de construcție, acces la finanțare și sprijin pentru cei care își cumpără prima locuință. În schimb, astăzi discuția se concentrează mai mult pe închirierea pe termen scurt, care la nivelul UE reprezintă doar 1,2% din fondul locativ. Haideți să le spunem cetățenilor adevărul: problema fundamentală este că nu construim suficient. Avem nevoie de mai puțină birocrație, autorizații mai rapide, mai multe construcții și stimulente pentru proprietarii care își pun locuințele pe piață. Vreau o Europă care îi ajută pe tineri să devină proprietari, nu una care îi face pe proprietari vinovați de criza locuințelor.
Poate că dacă vrem mai multe familii și mai mulți copii europeni, trebuie să le oferim tinerilor posibilitatea de a-și construi aici o casă, o familie și un viitor. O Europă care nu își permite să își întemeieze familii nu își permite nici viitorul.
Roberts Zīle
Thank you. The next speaker, colleague Teodorescu, would you like to approve, sorry, make, sorry, there is a blue card there, so would you accept a blue card? Yeah, from Alvis Perez 774. 774.
Alvise Pérez
Thank you, President.
I'm going to speak in Spanish. Muchísimas gracias, señora Teodorescu. Me gustaría preguntarle, teniendo en cuenta del país del que usted viene, cuáles han sido los efectos en su país de las políticas de izquierdas en relación a la intervención del precio de la vivienda, si han tenido resultados positivos o si, al igual que en mi país, España, han hundido la oferta y han creado una crisis aún más agravada en materia de accesibilidad de vivienda a los más jóvenes. Muchas gracias.
Georgiana Teodorescu
Thank you so much, colleague, for your question. I can tell you that in Romania, to occupy somebody's house illegally is a crime. And if you do so and you refuse to leave that house you just occupied illegally, you go to jail. So the situation in Romania is very different from the situation you had in Spain due to Pedro Sánchez's way of governing Spain. In this concern, I have to say that we need a balanced and moderate approach.
We have to help people who are in social need, but we do not want to have them occupy illegally our homes that we bought from our work. Thank you.
Roberts Zīle
Yeah, thank you. So next speaker, Brigitte van den Berg, now you have the floor, please.
Ja, voorzitter, met deze wet betaalbaar wonen hebben we de eerste steen gelegd, maar ik kan hem niet vieren. Want het gaat alleen maar over de commerciële huur, dus alleen maar over platforms zoals Airbnb, en zelfs dat wordt niet doortastend aangepakt.
Brigitte van den Berg
De steden waar de problemen echt groot zijn, zoals Amsterdam en Barcelona, hebben aan deze aanpak niks. Wat moeten we wel doen? We moeten echte ambitie tonen, we moeten doorbraken realiseren. Kijk naar wat er nu in Nederland gebeurt. Toen onze premier Rob Jetten in de campagne beloofde dat hij 100.000 woningen ging bouwen, zei iedereen dat het niet kon.
En volgend jaar gaan we het gewoon wel doen. Het kan wel. En onze minister legt binnen een jaar een voorstel van 50 voorstellen neer om sneller woningen te realiseren. Wat gaat ze doen? Zorgen dat woningdelen makkelijker is, zorgen dat er meer vergunningen verleend worden, zorgen dat er meer vakmensen opgeleid worden.
Zo pakken we de echte wooncrisis aan. We moeten aan de slag en Europa moet dat ondersteunen. Dank u wel.
Katrin Langensiepen
Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar, die eigene Wohnung, das Dach über dem Kopf eines Menschen muss es auch sein. Punkt. Die gegenwärtige Wohnungskrise hat sozialen Sprengstoff, gesellschaftlichen Sprengstoff und sie hat politischen Sprengstoff, wie die Proteste von Hunderttausenden und die nun angekündigten Neuwahlen in Spanien zeigen.
Es zeigen sich die Risse eines Systems, welches nahezu pervertiert Profitinteressen vor das Wohlergehen der Bürgerinnen und Bürger stellt. In Europa sind die Wohnkosten nicht grundlos seit 2015 im Schnitt um 60 % gestiegen und es zeigt, wie schamlos hier Rechtskonservative auch in diesem hohen Haus Bürgerinnennähe und Verständnis für die Alltagssorgen der Menschen heucheln und es dann noch den Markt regeln zu lassen. Shame. Und auch der Kommissionsentwurf ist hier im Kern ein Lobbygeschenk. Schluss mit steigenden Mieten, Schluss mit explodierenden Wohnkosten, Schluss mit Zwangsräumungen.
Wir brauchen mehr Spielraum für die Kommunen. Das ist dringend notwendige Korrektur. Menschen in Wohnung und Wohnung für Menschen. Das muss unsere Leitlinie sein. Herzlichen Dank.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup, chère collègue Langensiepen. Chère collègue, Madame Langensiepen, yes, you have a request for a blue card coming from Pietro Bartolo.
A blue card. Pietro Bestron. No? Ok. Merci beaucoup.
Nous continuons la discussion. Ilaria Salis.
Ilaria Salis
Grazie. Questo è il suono della protesta per il diritto alla casa che attraversa la Spagna. Un simbolo di lotta che speriamo di sentire molto presto nelle strade di tutta Europa, perché nelle nostre città è diventato ormai impossibile vivere. Gli affitti sono alle stelle, i mutui inaccessibili, le case popolari sono troppo poche e troppe quelle colpevolmente vuote. Mentre milioni di persone si ammazzano di lavoro per pagare l'affitto o il mutuo, dall'altra parte ci sono pochi privilegiati che possono permettersi di vivere senza lavorare, che affittano le loro proprietà vivendo di rendita.
Ora basta. Basta con il business della casa. Basta con la rendita parassitaria. La casa deve essere non deve più essere una fonte di guadagno, ma lo spazio sacro attorno a cui costruire le nostre vite. La casa è un diritto, non una merce.
Mobilitiamoci, lottiamo, scioperiamo, come in Spagna, come a Berlino, ovunque. Facciamole suonare sempre più forte. Evviva la lotta per la casa.
Younous Omarjee
Ilaria, you have a request from Isabella Tovaglieri. Madame Tovaglieri. Yes.
Isabella Tovaglieri
Collega Salis, mi riempie veramente di sorpresa vedere la sua la sua posizione. Lei parla di un modello da seguire come la Spagna. Lei sa che la nostra civiltà occidentale si basa sulla ricchezza generata dalla proprietà privata che lei e i suoi colleghi compagni decidete di calpestare. Lei colpevolizza i proprietari di case private che hanno investito i risparmi di una vita e che vogliono magari avere l'obiettivo legittimo di metterle in vendita definendoli rendite parassitarie. Di parassita secondo me c'è solo chi occupa abusivamente le case comprate dagli altri col sudore della fronte.
Ilaria Salis
Allora, punto primo, la rendita deve essere limitata quando ci sono milioni di persone che non riescono ad arrivare a fine mese. Inoltre, le occupazioni sono il sintomo della crisi abitativa che voi non volete affrontare. Se si facessero delle politiche abitative serie che garantissero a tutti il diritto alla casa, nessuno avrebbe più bisogno di occupare.
E vi dirò di più, il criminale non è chi occupa la casa per necessità, ma criminali sono gli enti gestori delle case popolari e sono i fondi immobiliari speculativi che lasciano vuote migliaia e migliaia di case quando le persone non riescono ad arrivare a fine mese. Grazie.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup. Merci beaucoup, nous poursuivons la discussion, Irmhild Boßdorf.
Irmhild Boßdorf
Wenn 37 Millionen legale und illegale Einwanderer seit 2015 nach Europa geströmt sind und anschließend 10 Millionen Wohnungen fehlen, ist das eine ganz einfache Rechenaufgabe, die jeder Hilfsschüler sofort lösen kann. Nicht so die Europäische Union. Sie arbeitet sich lieber an Vermietern, Bauherren und Eigentümern ab, ausgerechnet an jenen, die überhaupt noch Wohnraum schaffen. Ihre Verordnungen und geplanten Eingriffe: der pure Wahnsinn. Dabei ist die Schaffung von Wohnraum ein nationales Recht, und das muss es auch bleiben.
Was kein nationales Recht ist: die EU-Außengrenzen zu schützen. Hier ist die EU gefragt und versagt jeden Tag aufs Neue. Jedes Prozent Zuwanderung erhöht die Mietpreise um 1 Prozent, die Wohnungskaufpreise steigen sogar um 3 Prozent. Wir haben kein Wohnungsproblem, wir haben ein Migrationsproblem. Solange Sie, Frau von der Leyen, und Ihre Kommission dies nicht anerkennen, wird es keine Lösung der Wohnungsnot geben.
Remigration schafft Wohnraum. Vielen Dank.
Maria Zacharia
Ο κανονισμός για την οικονομικά προσιτή στέγη δεν μπορεί να αφορά το πώς θα λειτουργεί καλύτερα η αγορά. Η αγορά, η κερδοσκοπία, μας έφτασαν εδώ σήμερα. Στην Κυψέλη της Αθήνας οικογένειες δίνουν μάχη για τα ίδια τους τα σπίτια μετά τις σοβαρές ζημιές που έγιναν σε πολυκατοικίες από ιδιώτη εργολάβο στα έργα του μετρό. Στην Ελλάδα και σε ολόκληρη την Ευρώπη πολίτες βρίσκονται αντιμέτωποι με πλειστηριασμούς από ιδιωτικές τράπεζες, servicers και funds, εταιρείες οχήματα κερδοσκοπίας. Πρέπει να προστατεύσουμε τον άνθρωπο και το σπίτι του.
Και αυτό ακριβώς διεκδικεί μια πανευρωπαϊκή πρωτοβουλία κινημάτων, ενώσεων ενοικιαστών και συνδικάτων που στις 14 Οκτωβρίου έρχεται στις Βρυξέλλες. Προστασία από εξώσεις και πλειστηριασμούς, δημόσια και κοινωνική κατοικία, αξιοποίηση των κενών ακινήτων και πραγματικά όρια στην κερδοσκοπία. Τη φωνή τους μεταφέρω σήμερα εδώ. Η Ευρώπη πρέπει να επιλέξει το δικαίωμα στη στέγη και όχι στην κερδοσκοπία πάνω στη στέγη. Ευχαριστώ.
Hildegard Bentele
Sehr geehrter Herr Kommissar, sorry, aber das war zu wenig.
Ich habe zu Beginn der Legislatur begrüßt, dass Ursula von der Leyen die Wohnungsnot auf die Agenda gesetzt hat. Gerade in Großstädten wie in Berlin besorgt das Thema die Menschen sehr. Und wir als Parlament haben zwei Jahre intensiv daran gearbeitet und gute Empfehlungen vorgelegt. Leider ist von diesen in Ihrem Vorschlag nicht viel zu finden. Wir brauchen kein neues EU-Gesetz.
Wir brauchen einen Entrümpelungs-Omnibus, der bürokratische Hürden abbaut, Doppelungen und Widersprüche beseitigt und Investitionen erleichtert. Wir brauchen schnellere digitale Genehmigungen und einen Check, ob Baustoffe ausreichend und bezahlbar überhaupt zur Verfügung stehen. Und wir brauchen, wie in der State of the Union angekündigt, einen Pakt mit den Mitgliedstaaten gegen überambitionierte nationale Umsetzungen, beispielsweise der Gebäudeenergieeffizienzrichtlinie oder noch besser deren umfassende Überarbeitung. Sehr geehrter Herr Kommissar, bisher war das symbolisches Kratzen an der Oberfläche, aber dafür ist die Lage zu ernst. Die Sorge um bezahlbares Wohnen stärkt radikale Kräfte, deren Enteignungsfantasien Gift für jede Investition in den Wohnungsbau sind.
Bitte gehen Sie wirklich in die Tiefe des Bauregulatorik-Dschungels, damit wieder mehr Wohnungen und Häuser fertig werden. Und lassen Sie uns alle nicht vergessen: Es ist Eigentum, das Sicherheit schafft. Und diesen Traum müssen wir durch echte Kostensenkungen wieder für alle möglich machen.
Muchas gracias.
Laura Ballarín Cereza
España ha dicho basta. La gente ha salido a las calles y no piensa volver hasta que no tengan una vivienda digna para volver. Hablamos de familias que gastan más de la mitad de su sueldo en alquiler, jóvenes que no pueden emanciparse o personas como Mari Carmen, que son desahuciadas a los 87 años. Estamos ante una emergencia habitacional no solo en España, sino también en Europa, y por ello requiere medidas extraordinarias. No hay soluciones mágicas, lo sabemos, pero sí hay dos opciones políticas muy diferentes: intervenir el mercado para proteger el derecho a la vivienda digna o reivindicar la libertad para proteger los fondos buitre.
Los socialistas tenemos muy claro de qué lado de la historia estamos. Desde Europa, comisario, trabajaremos por una ley de vivienda asequible ambiciosa, que aporte a los municipios cobertura legal para limitar los alquileres turísticos y de corta duración y que permita actuar frente a la especulación y poder habilitar viviendas asequibles. Porque, como decía Silvia Pérez Cruz, es indecente, es indecente, gente sin casa, casa sin gente. Partido Popular, ¿en qué lado están? ¿Consideran que la vivienda es un negocio o un derecho para todos?
Muchas gracias.
Merci beaucoup. Rachel Blom.
Rachel Blom
Dank u wel, voorzitter. Brussel heeft ons inmiddels een indrukwekkend pakket aan crises bezorgd: een energiecrisis, een stikstofcrisis, een klimaatcrisis, een enorme asielcrisis en nu mogen we daar ook nog de huizencrisis aan toevoegen. En uitgerekend mevrouw von der Leyen komt nu met een EU-masterplan voor betaalbare woningen, want als er één organisatie bekendstaat om betaalbare oplossingen, dan is het de EU wel. Laten we vooral niet kijken naar de gevolgen van stikstofregels die de bouw vertragen, en ook niet naar klimaat- en energieregels die bouwen duurder maken, en al helemaal niet naar de gevolgen van de ongecontroleerde massa-immigratie. Nee, dat zou wel erg ongemakkelijk worden.
Het is makkelijker om de vinger te wijzen naar Airbnb, alsof de huizencrisis is ontstaan omdat een paar huiseigenaren hun woning aan toeristen verhuren. De boodschap van de PVV is duidelijk: stop je te bemoeien met nationale aangelegenheden. Wat Brussel aanraakt, verandert namelijk niet in goud, maar in bureaucratische drek. Het is tijd dat Nederland weer baas wordt in eigen land. Dank u wel.
Gracias, presidente, comisario. ¿Qué esperanza le queda a toda una generación que trabaja pero no puede comprarse una casa?
Nora Junco García
En España hay parejas jóvenes que necesitan sumar dos salarios solo para afrontar el alquiler y los gastos básicos. Ahorrar, tener hijos o construir un futuro se convierten en un lujo. Ahora necesitamos más viviendas disponibles y para construirlas tenemos que apoyar la inversión y fomentar la colaboración público-privada. Sin ellas no vamos a aumentar suficientemente la oferta para hacer la vivienda más asequible. Por eso debemos agilizar las licencias, fomentar la inversión a la construcción, dar seguridad jurídica a quienes ponen su vivienda en alquiler y también ayudar a quien lo necesitan.
Desde CR pedimos que este plan europeo convierta esas prioridades en hogares que los jóvenes puedan pagar. Porque nuestros jóvenes no quieren que les regalemos una vida, quieren que su trabajo les permita construirla. Gracias.
Martin Hojsík
Dnes o tom, ako hladko mladý človek začne samostatný život, často nerozhoduje ani talent, ani snaha. Rozhoduje o tom, do akej rodiny sa narodil. Kto má šťastie a rodičia mu vedia pomôcť s bývaním alebo s hypotékou, môže šetriť, plánovať rodinu či podnikať, prosto budovať si svoj život.
Kto také šťastie nemá, môže roky dávať veľkú časť výplaty na nájom a nemá reálnu šancu dostať sa k vlastnému bývaniu. Na Slovensku boli dostupné len prázdne sľuby o dostupnom bývaní. Pritom ide o základnú potrebu domova. Potrebujeme viac dostupných bytov, viac nájomného bývania, jednoduchšiu výstavbu, lepšie využitie prázdnych budov a reálnu pomoc mladým pri získaní prvého samostatného bývania. Bývanie má byť dostupné pre človeka, ktorý začína z nuly a my, ktorí sme tu boli skôr, máme zodpovednosť voči tým, ktorí prichádzajú po nás.
Nesmieme sklamať vlastnú budúcnosť. Ďakujem.
Gordan Bosanac
Thank you, Chair, Commissioner. The new Eurostat data show that only in three Member States we see the trend of annual decrease in house prices. Rent prices are still rising like crazy. Romania 41%, Croatia 22%, so the crisis is still hitting hard. In that context, we welcome the Affordable Housing Act, which will target only one segment of the housing crisis: uncontrolled short-term rental policies.
Let us give mayors and local authorities the tools they need to restrict the uncontrolled spread of short-term rentals. However, the methodology to declare areas under housing stress must be simple and efficient, not to be lost in complicated calculation procedures. The restriction measures in lower-income member states, this is really important, must protect small-scale landlords who supplement their insufficient monthly household budget through renting. The problem does not lie within them, but rather with those speculators who hoard large number of apartments to profit from them. Let's focus on them.
Younous Omarjee
Mr. Boștinaru, yes, you have a request, a blue card from Idoia Villanueva.
Idoia Mendia
Gracias, presidente. Gracias al empeño de los socialdemócratas hemos conseguido tener en esta legislatura un comisario, una comisión, un plan y ahora una ley de vivienda asequible, a lo que el PP ya ha manifestado su posición contraria. ¿No cree que Europa debiera planificar vivienda asequible pensando en todo el ciclo de la vida, en los jóvenes y en los mayores, y sobre todo prohibir los fondos buitre? Garantizar que los mayores puedan elegir dónde quieren seguir viviendo, que no haya más Mari Carmenes a las que el Partido Popular deja sin techo al final de su vida.
Gordan Bosanac
Thank you, and you are fully right. I mean, the scene with the lady Mari Carmen are really heartbreaking, and it really are showing us how our senior citizens are especially under the attack and are suffering the housing crisis. So yes, when we are developing such a legislation, let's also see what can we do more for our senior citizens not to be evicted out of their houses, but also not to be cheated that the no proper, their property will not be stolen, as could happen in some of the member states. Thank you.
Kathleen Funchion
Merci beaucoup pour votre réponse, Kathleen Funchion.
Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. Cuirim fáilte roimh an díospóireacht seo faoin Acht Tithíochta. Cé go bhfuil an t-acht teoranta, tá moltaí ann gur chóir dúinn a chur i bhfeidhm. Go háirithe, i gceantair ar nós an Ghaeltachta, le linn mór de thithe saoire agus le tithe atá ar cíos gearrthéarmach. Tá a fhios againn go léir go bhfuil níos mó le déanamh chun tacaíocht a thabhairt do phobail Ghaeltachta, is é anois am chun gníomhú.
Tá tithíocht tábhachtach do gach suí, agus faoi láthair tá sé ró-daor don chéad ghlúin eile.
Agus cad atá an rialtas ag déanamh? Ag tabhairt fúithi chun an fhadhb a réiteach, ach tá sé ag tarlú ró-mhall. Tá sé in am do phlean nua, tá sé in am an fhadhb seo a réiteach. Go raibh maith agaibh.
Marcin Sypniewski
Dziękuję bardzo. Naprawdę podziwiam bezczelność kasty politycznej. Obiecujecie tanie mieszkania, ale najpierw wystawiacie obywatelom rachunek, a później ogłaszacie, że przychodzicie im z pomocą. Tak naprawdę co się kryje za obietnicą tanich mieszkań? Drugą ręką dokładacie ludziom koszty budowy, ogrzewania, prądu i remontów.
Żeby postawić dom, trzeba przejść coraz cięższe procedury. Ktoś za to musi płacić, czasem i pieniądzem. I ten rachunek dostaje rodzina, która chciała swoje własne cztery ściany. Do tego dochodzi to zaślepienie zieloną polityką. Przecież ETS obciąża produkcję cementu, energii i stali.
Koszty uprawnień do emisji nie znikają tylko dlatego, że mówicie, że chodzi o ratowanie klimatu. A gwoździem do trumny będzie ETS 2, który jeszcze bardziej zwiększy koszty.
Obywatel tak naprawdę interesuje was tylko wtedy, kiedy można sięgnąć do jego kieszeni. Opowiadacie o ratowaniu planety z wygodnego domu, popijając kawę z drugiego końca świata, a zwykły człowiek musi zatankować, dojechać do pracy i ogrzać mieszkanie. Dziękuję bardzo.
Younous Omarjee
Mr. Benova, Mr. Benova, yes, you have a blue card request from Lukas Sieper. Lukas Sieper.
Lukas Sieper
Thank you, dear colleague, that you accepted my blue card. You spoke at the end about the houses of the commissioners and the MEPs, and therefore I would like to know how your house looks like.
Marcin Sypniewski
Jestem zadowolony, natomiast jak każdy mieszkaniec Unii Europejskiej chciałbym, żeby koszty utrzymania domu były dużo mniejsze. To jest nienormalne, że koszty, które wydajemy na mieszkanie, czasami wyczerpują cały budżet rodziny, a te koszty cały czas rosną. Wystarczy zobaczyć, co się dzieje z ogrzewaniem, co się dzieje z prądem, co się dzieje również z transportem, jak trudno jest osobie, która mieszka poza wielkimi miastami, dojechać do lekarza, do szkoły, do pracy, na uczelnię. To wszystko jednak powoduje, że coraz mocniej sięga się do kieszeni zwykłego człowieka.
Lukas Sieper
Herr Kollege, ich wechsle jetzt mal auf Deutsch. Ich stimme Ihnen sogar zu, dass wir eine Krise haben. Ich stimme Ihnen zu, dass die Kosten zu hoch sind. Ich stimme Ihnen zu, dass die Belastung für die Menschen zu hoch ist. Und es wird Sie vielleicht überraschen, aber die Urheber dieses Gesetzgebungsverfahrens, die stimmen Ihnen da ebenfalls zu.
Und deswegen frage ich mich, warum Sie Ihre Zeit hier damit verschwenden, diese Menschen persönlich anzugreifen, ihnen Doppelmoral zu unterstellen, ihnen zu unterstellen, selber ein privilegiertes Leben zu leben, während sie sich eigentlich für die Menschen einsetzen. Warum können Sie sich also, anstatt die Menschen hier anzugreifen, nicht viel mehr mit den Argumenten in der Sache auseinandersetzen?
Marcin Sypniewski
Mr. Sypniewski, yes.
Ja się zgadzam, że musimy rozmawiać o rzeczach realnych. Dla mnie taką realną rzeczą są koszty. Jeżeli będziemy tylko manipulować i jakieś drobne rzeczy zmieniać, a nie sięgniemy do tego, co naprawdę obciąża kieszeń zwykłego mieszkańca Europy, czyli do tego, że płaci coraz więcej za prąd, że koszty wszystkich procedur piętrzą się i coraz bardziej wzrastają, że musimy coraz więcej płacić za ogrzewanie, za transport, no to wtedy nie rozwiążemy żadnego problemu.
Nie jest rozwiązaniem, żeby wszystko odjąć od rynku, bo to to się skończy tym, co zawsze. Dziękuję bardzo.
Speaker 152
Thank you guys. Dear colleagues, Commissioner, cenovo dostupné bývanie dnes nie je len problémom ľudí s nízkymi príjmami. Je to existenčná výzva aj pre mladé rodiny a pre ľudí, ktorí napriek tomu, že pracujú, si vlastné bývanie ani nájomné bývanie nemôžu dovoliť. Ja vítam, že po rokoch špekulácií a manipulácií s cenami bytov súkromnými spoločnosťami a rôznymi špekulantmi okolo nájomného bývania prichádza Komisia s návrhom a že túto tému otvára. Ale tento návrh sám o sebe ani nové byty nepostaví a ani cenu bývania žiaľbohu nezníži.
Aj samotná Komisia priznáva, že jeho vplyv na ceny a dostupnosť bude skôr nepriamy a bude závisieť od opatrení jednotlivých štátov, miest či samospráv. Na Slovensku vláda Roberta Fica rozvíja systém štátom podporovaného bývania a tento rok vyčlenila ďalšie zdroje na podporu výstavby nájomných bytov. Takéto národné programy by mala Európska komisia podporovať a umožňovať ich rozšírenie.
Treba pomôcť členským štátom výrazne zvýšiť ponuku dostupného bývania zrýchľovaním povoľovania výstavby a mobilizovaním verejných a súkromných investícií. Ďakujem pekne.
Pablo Arias Echeverría
Muchas gracias, presidente, señor comisario. Construir un hogar es la principal preocupación de millones de europeos. El problema de fondo es estructural. Faltan viviendas y se necesitan casi 10 millones para responder a la demanda actual. Debemos ofrecer oportunidades a las familias y especialmente a los jóvenes.
Para ello, la construcción e inmovilización de inversión pública y privada sin interferencias ni ideologías es fundamental. Sin embargo, la propuesta de la Comisión vuelve a empezar la casa por el tejado. Restringir los alquileres de corta duración y las segundas residencias tal y como lo proponen supone un ataque directo a la propiedad privada. No podemos conformarnos con redistribuir la escasez que seguirá existiendo si no construimos más. Defendamos la cultura del esfuerzo, del ahorro y de la propiedad.
Detrás de muchas viviendas hay familias que han ahorrado durante años e invertido sus recursos para obtener un ingreso extra. No desincentivemos a quienes aportan oferta al mercado. Hacen falta más viviendas e inversión. Europa debe aportar simplificando normas y siendo parte de la solución y no a través de supuestas recomendaciones que no resuelven el problema.
Frente a la escasez, ampliemos soluciones y facilitemos alternativas. Muchas gracias.
Merci beaucoup, cher collègue Eoin O'Riordain.
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
Commissioner, Minister, conservatives here say the market will fix the housing crisis. The right to property is all they defend. In Dublin, we see tourists in family homes, families in hotel rooms, children in emergency accommodation doing homework on fire escapes, young adults stuck in their childhood bedrooms, communities deprived of essential workers, all caused by a heartless mindset that lets profit rule. Commissioner, I'm happy to see, thanks to our political family, we are taking action with the Affordable Housing Act, giving councils the power to curb short-term lets, putting families back in homes. The EU budget must also deliver under the Irish presidency.
We demand 100 billion euro for social and affordable housing and to end homelessness. We were promised an EU housing summit before the end of the year. Where is it? Children in Gardiner Street in Dublin doing their homework on a fire escape have a right to housing.
The market has betrayed them, and so have those right-wing politicians who worship at the altar of the market.
Younous Omarjee
Mr. Jordan, Mr. Eoni, yes. No, okay. Nous continuons la discussion, Isabella Tovaglieri.
Isabella Tovaglieri
Ditelo chiaramente. Voi di sinistra volete distruggere la proprietà privata, perché l'intervento della mia collega Salis lo dimostra perfettamente. Non sopportate l'idea che i cittadini europei possano possedere qualcosa e quindi essere liberi ed indipendenti. La vostra visione è letteralmente quella di un'Unione Sovietica Europea. Tutti sudditi di un enorme Stato opprimente, senza radici e senza valori, tutti nelle stesse case grigie di proprietà dello Stato, tutti sulle stesse piccole auto elettriche e tutti dipendenti da un reddito di sudditanza.
E per realizzare questa visione volete smantellare la proprietà privata e quindi giustificate le occupazioni abusive e sostenete persino l'esproprio delle case sfitte. L'emergenza abitativa esiste e va affrontata, ma non si risolve cancellando la proprietà privata, che è un valore perché significa libertà, autonomia e indipendenza e lo dobbiamo difendere.
Voi volete dei sudditi, noi vogliamo cittadini liberi.
Younous Omarjee
Madame Tovaglieri, you have two requests of blue card come from two, two demand, Nico Stefanuta.
Nicolae Ștefănuță
Possiamo anche parlare italiano se volete. But if not, I will just tell you one thing. I know what the Soviet Union looked like and it's not like you described it. I know because now my, my people live, the young people cannot find a house. The young people stay with their parents until 35 to move out of their house.
The young people cannot afford a house. They need a million salaries to even put the money down. It's different than the reality you describe. I come from Romania, don't play with, with names such as this. You don't know what you're talking about.
Look at the youth right now and respect their problems right now.
Vous pouvez répondre.
Isabella Tovaglieri
Guardi non accetto insegnamenti da chi propone come soluzione per rendere gli affitti accessibili ai giovani il modello del comunismo sovietico che ha portato solo degrado e povertà. Quindi la risposta è la risposta ad avere dei salari che siano adeguati, basta tasse ideologiche presunte green ambientali come le tasse sulla casa, come le auto elettriche e tutte quelle misure ideologiche che deprimono anziché liberare ricchezza. Non è drogando il mercato come lo stop ai motori termici che restituiremo una casa dignitosa alle famiglie europee.
Nicolae Ștefănuță
So your answer to young people is stop being poor. That's it. Just stop being poor. Right? As if it would be easy to stop being poor.
Just get 15 jobs at the same time, right? Do you know how many applications young people send to have one job? I will tell you, 400. 'Cause they write me every single day that they send 400 applications to have one interview for a job. You don't know the reality.
You have no clue what you're talking about.
Isabella Tovaglieri
Guardi io vengo da una delle realtà più produttive dell'Europa che è la Lombardia dove oggi la disoccupazione le possa assicurare che è al tasso frizionale. Quindi il lavoro c'è, il problema sono i salari. Dopodiché ripeto la soluzione del comunismo sovietico non è la soluzione per i giovani.
Io non voglio rendere ricchi i giovani come pretende lei, perché le ricordo che sono i suoi colleghi che stanno dalla sua parte che pretendevano con un decreto di abrogare la povertà.
Younous Omarjee
Madame Tovaglieri, you have a second request from Lukas Sieper. Vous acceptez? Vous acceptez, Monsieur Sieper.
Lukas Sieper
Thank you, dear colleague, that you accepted the blue card. I will now try something, and I will say it very slow what I want to try. I will ask you a question, a yes or no question. And I would really like for you to answer with yes or no. And then I will come back if the President allows me.
Before you spoke, one of our colleagues from the S&D talked about the fact that the conservative and the right wants to only focus on the right to private property and that they don't care about the people. Do you think this is a constructive approach? Yes or no?
Isabella Tovaglieri
Sì, mi permetta di precisare la domanda: è un approccio costruttivo quale? Quello di negare che i conservatori vogliano difendere la proprietà privata? Non ho capito la domanda, mi scusi.
Visto che ho solo due opzioni di scelta in maniera democratica, vorrei essere sicura di aver capito bene cosa mi chiede.
Lukas Sieper
What I wanted to ask you, dear colleague, and maybe I can explain it within my question because I don't think I can come back a second time. This whole debate is only about bipartisan gain. You from the right, you stand here in this plenary and you accuse the left of trying to abolish the right to private property and to enact some kind of Soviet Union. And the people from the left, they stand here and they say they don't care about the people and they only focus on the right to property. I personally believe, and this is why I ask you if this is constructive, I personally believe the people in Europe who don't have a house, who cannot find a place to live, they don't care about a bipartisan divide on that.
They only care about the roof above their head and we will not solve that issue by fighting each other.
Isabella Tovaglieri
Sì, forse ecco, sarebbe di aiuto a chi cerca un affitto che lei magari facesse una domanda più concreta.
Younous Omarjee
L'échange est clos. Je pense que nous pouvons mettre un terme à cet échange de minutes.
Grazie Presidente, colleghi, Commissione.
Denis Nesci
Dobbiamo affrontare questo tema con pragmatismo. È da poco entrato in vigore un regolamento europeo sugli affitti brevi nato per garantire trasparenza e condivisione dei dati. Introdurre nuove restrizioni prima di valutare gli effetti sarebbe un errore di metodo. La politica abitativa deve rimanere una competenza nazionale e territoriale. Il diritto di proprietà è un pilastro della nostra economia.
Non possiamo decidere da Bruxelles come i proprietari debbano utilizzare i propri immobili. Non possiamo attribuire agli affitti brevi e al turismo la responsabilità della crisi abitativa. Per borghi, isole e aree rurali il turismo significa occupazione ed economia reale. Le esigenze di una grande città sono diverse da quelle di una località montana o rurale. Un approccio unico rischia di creare più distorsioni che soluzioni.
La vera priorità è aumentare l'offerta abitativa intervenendo sulle cause strutturali della crisi senza penalizzare il turismo, senza centralizzare competenze e senza comprimere il diritto di proprietà. Grazie.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup Denis Nesci. Yes, you have a demand from Petras Auštrevičius. Vous êtes d'accord? Ok. Petras.
Petras Gražulis
Gerbiamas pranešėjau, ar jūs nesutiktumėte su Portugalijos premjeru, kuris ką tik kalbėjo ir palietė temą taip pat ir nekilnojamojo turto? Kaip spręsti? Pagrindinis dalykas, ką jis pasakė: jei nėra, yra per mažai būsto, reikia didinti paklausą, statyti būstą ir valstybinėms įmonėms, ir privačiam kapitalui sudaryti sąlygas. Man atrodo, kad jis labai tiksliai atsakė į šį klausimą, kaip spręsti šiandien nekilnojamojo turto problemą. Ar jūs sutiktumėte?
Denis Nesci
Sì, sono d'accordo sul fatto che bisogna intervenire sulla residenza pubblica. Per esempio, io provengo da una nazione dove è stato attuato un piano casa che secondo me va verso la soluzione che dovrebbe essere posta. Il recupero dell'edilizia popolare con un impegno di 970 milioni di euro per gli anni 2026-2030 vuol dire andare verso questa direzione, non andare a colpevolizzare chi ha la casa privata pensando di trovare una soluzione. Grazie.
Oihane Agirregoitia Martínez
Merci beaucoup pour votre réponse. Ariana Goita Martinez Oyone.
Cuatro de cada diez europeos considera que la falta de vivienda accesible es un problema inmediato. Las clases medias tienen dificultades y muchos jóvenes no pueden independizarse y tenemos una oportunidad, por lo tanto, con esta ley europea de vivienda asequible, pero tenemos que hacerlo bien, porque también estamos viendo qué es lo que está ocurriendo en el Estado español. El Gobierno ha aguantado una legislatura sin presupuestos, pero en quince días el foco mediático ha cambiado de Ceuta a los desahucios y de ahí a unas elecciones anticipadas. Y con esto lo único que quiero decir es que tenemos que ser capaces de leer el sentir de la gente y llegar a unos acuerdos de marcos jurídicos mínimos que nos permitan proteger a vulnerables, hacer al pequeño propietario partícipe de la solución sin cargarle con responsabilidades que son de las administraciones, pararle por supuesto los pies a fondos buitres y a prácticas abusivas y a la especulación, regular los alquileres que son de temporada allá donde son un problema real para el acceso a la vivienda, pero también aumentar la oferta y la rehabilitación y hacerlo agilizando, construyendo más, más rápido y a precios razonables. Y estas acciones son complementarias, es que no son excluyentes, y quien quiera hacernos ver otra cosa es que está haciendo otro tipo de sumas y restas.
Hagámoslo bien, por lo tanto, y alcancemos el acuerdo que es necesario para dar solución a este reto habitacional.
Benedetta Scuderi
Merci beaucoup, Benedetta Scuderi.
A Roma 400 persone hanno perso la casa nell'esperienza di Spin Time perché il fondo immobiliare che detiene l'immobile l'ha voluto indietro. Il comune ha provato a comprarlo ma niente. Nel frattempo queste persone sono state ricollocate e le liste d'attesa per le case popolari si sono bloccate. E questo perché? Perché non possiamo mica toccare un fondo immobiliare.
Signor Commissario, possiamo dire che il diritto di un fondo immobiliare di fare profitto non è uguale a quello delle persone ad avere una casa? Possiamo dire che l'abitare è un diritto e che il profitto dei miliardari viene dopo, tanto dopo? Perché controllare gli affitti brevi è doveroso, ma non possiamo farlo con una serie infinita di clausole e non ci può essere solo questo. Come distribuiamo le regole? Ai sindaci che vogliono regolare il mercato una gabbia di criteri, a chi invece specula trasformando le case in investimenti finanziari nessuno strumento vincolante.
La gente letteralmente non può più vivere e oggi in Spagna è evidente. Possiamo iniziare a difendere i diritti di queste persone e non di chi specula sulle nostre spalle? Grazie.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup. Merci beaucoup, vous avez une demande s'il vous plaît. Yes. From Alexander Bernhuber.
Vous êtes d'accord? Oui. Mr. Bernhuber.
Alexander Bernhuber
Ja, ganz herzlichen Dank. Sie haben mir ein Beispiel gebracht von Rom, von Italien, dass es hier größere Probleme gibt, dass es hier immer wieder zu Wohnungsnot kommt. Sie sprechen ja an, dass es hier Regelungen braucht im Immobilienbereich. Aber warum wollen Sie hier unbedingt europäische Kompetenz schaffen? Für mich ist das eine nationale Kompetenz, regionale Kompetenz.
Ich komme aus Österreich, bei uns liegt das Recht, wie hier Wohnbau stattfinden soll, auf regionaler Ebene. Wir lösen das auf regionaler Ebene. Dann ist das auch meine Frage: Warum wollen Sie das nicht in Italien auch auf regionaler Ebene lösen und schreien immer nach europäischen Lösungen bei solchen Themen?
Benedetta Scuderi
Forse non dovrei rispondere a una domanda con un'altra domanda, ma secondo lei un austriaco è più importante di un italiano? È più importante di un romeno? È più importante di un'altra persona? Perché non dare gli stessi diritti alle persone in tutta Europa? Perché non avere una normativa che metta delle regole che segnino dei diritti chiari?
Perché ogni persona su questo continente, in questa Unione, ha il diritto ad abitare.
E l'Europa, se vuole essere un'istituzione che difende i diritti delle persone, deve livellare questa situazione, mettere fondi con dei criteri chiari che siano uguali e che diano la possibilità ad ogni europeo di avere una casa.
Hanna Gedin
Bostad är inte en vara, det är en mänsklig rättighet. Och bostadsbristen är en av vår tids absolut största frågor. I Madrid så har stora demonstrationer startat efter att 87-åriga Mari Carmen blev vräkt från sin bostad. När det inte finns några lägenheter med rimliga hyror så begränsas människan i sitt liv. Hon kan inte flytta dit jobben finns eller där studierna finns.
Hon kan inte flytta ihop med någon som hon älskar och inte heller separera från en partner som gör att hon inte mår bra. Det är konsekvenserna av en högerpolitik här i EU och i mitt land Sverige som gör att samhället spricker i sömmarna. Jag vill se ett Europa som sätter människan före marknaden. Men det finns ljusglimtar. I staden Göteborg så inför vänsterstyret hyresgarantier som underlättar för människor att få ett förstahandskontrakt.
Och demonstrationerna i Madrid de ledde faktiskt till att Mari Carmen nu får flytta tillbaka till sin lägenhet.
Politiskt mod och folkligt motstånd ger resultat och kampen för allas rätt till ett tryggt hem fortsätter.
Isabelle Le Callennec
Merci Monsieur le Président. La loi logement de l'Union européenne veut prioritairement réguler la location de courte durée touristique qui ne représente en fait qu'1,2 % des logements en Europe. Inutile de dire qu'elle ne résoudra pas la crise du logement qui sévit dans nombre d'États membres grevant le pouvoir d'achat des ménages. Parmi ceux dont le taux d'effort est le plus élevé, il y a les jeunes : étudiants, apprentis, jeunes actifs. En moyenne en Europe, 10 % des jeunes consacrent plus de 40 % de leurs ressources au logement.
L'âge moyen de départ du domicile parental recule. Une étude sur le logement des jeunes a été publiée cette année par le Parlement européen.
Elle propose notamment, et cela relève de l'Union, de mobiliser des investissements pour le logement étudiant, par exemple avec la BEI, InvestEU ou les fonds FEDER, de créer des garanties de dépôt, à l'image de la garantie Visale en France, ou d'intégrer davantage le logement dans les financements Erasmus+. Alors ma question est très simple, Monsieur le Commissaire, la Commission a-t-elle commencé à travailler à ces axes d'amélioration en faveur du logement des jeunes ? Je vous en remercie.
Nora Mebarek
Merci Monsieur le Président, Monsieur le Vice-Président, Monsieur le Commissaire. Il aura fallu du temps, mais nous y sommes enfin, l'Union européenne se saisit concrètement du sujet du logement abordable. Cette proposition législative est un acte majeur par sa seule existence puisque c'est la première fois qu'il y a une législation sur le sujet. Espérons qu'elle porte ses fruits et qu'elle soit suivie d'autres initiatives tant le défi est immense. À cet égard, si le logement abordable est une priorité indiscutable, n'oublions pas que le logement social a aussi besoin d'être soutenu.
La question d'un meilleur encadrement des locations de courte durée est un premier pas dont nous nous félicitons, mais gardons à l'esprit que ce nouveau modèle européen ne fonctionnera que s'il met pleinement les collectivités locales au centre du jeu car ce sont elles qui connaissent finalement le mieux leur territoire. Attention à ne pas imposer trop de critères pour désigner des zones tendues dont l'effet cumulé pourrait restreindre la capacité des maires à agir efficacement.
Attention aux restrictions sur la réglementation des résidences principales. En France, ce qui fonctionne le mieux, nous disent les maires, c'est la règle du maximum de 120 nuitées par an. Alors ne cassons pas ce qu'il existe déjà.
Jorge Buxadé Villalba
En España, en ocho años de gobierno socialista, la vivienda se ha encarecido un 74 % en la compra y 40 % en el alquiler, pero a los fondos de inversión, alfombra roja e incentivos fiscales que niegan a los españoles. Cuatro millones de extranjeros más en ocho años, cuatro millones que han colapsado el mercado de la compra y el alquiler, poniendo fin a las aspiraciones de jóvenes y familias de disponer de una vivienda en propiedad como tuvieron sus padres y sus abuelos. La oferta ha sido aniquilada en la escasez porque ustedes ni construyen ni dejan construir y se han puesto del lado del okupa, del que no paga y del que asalta la frontera. Es el resultado de secuestrar el suelo para especular desde el poder con el futuro de los españoles, del exceso de burocracia y la fiscalidad abusiva y el abandono de las políticas de vivienda que fueron tan exitosas para una España que fue de propietarios y ahora es de vulnerables. Pero se puede hacer de otra manera: desregular, reemigrar y establecer la prioridad nacional.
Solo se trata de ponerse del lado del pueblo español.
Ya sé que a ustedes les cuesta, pero solo se trata de eso. Muchas gracias.
Younous Omarjee
Mr. Buxadé Villalba, you have a demand come from Nikos Stefanuta. Nikos Stefanuta.
Nicolae Ștefănuță
I listen to you and I was there in Madrid just two weeks ago when Mari Carmen was thrown out of her an apartment, a woman of 87 who lived in the same apartment for 70 years. It is nice that you are now on the side of the people, but maybe you convince your colleague who spoke against this position that you had. She said, Mrs. Tovaglieri said, no, get more jobs, try not to be poor, try to get an apartment. Can you convince the patriots to have such a position, to no longer be in the pockets of big rental corporations, to no longer be in the pockets of Airbnb and just have a stance for the people? Merci.
Jorge Buxadé Villalba
Mi colega Tovaglieri lo ha hecho cojonudo y ha defendido la propiedad que es de lo que se trata aquí, de defender la propiedad y sobre todo el futuro de los jóvenes. Quienes se reúnen con los fondos de inversión y los fondos buitres son los primeros ministros de los gobiernos socialistas que les ponen la alfombra roja para que destrocen el mercado de la vivienda.
Esa es la realidad de España que es la que yo conozco. A propósito, el que ha permitido el desahucio de esa señora es el gobierno socialista que cambió la ley de arrendamientos urbanos en el año 95 y luego lo permitió ejecutivamente, con lo cual menos dar lecciones de lo que se hace en España y más proteger a las empresas porque si a las empresas europeas se les destruye no hay trabajo para los españoles, no hay trabajo para los jóvenes y por supuesto no pueden adquirir ni compra ni alquiler.
Nicolae Ștefănuță
I'm sorry, I know you have elections in November and I know you take your national fight here. But I will tell you that I did this, I was there with the people of Spain and I saw their suffering and the same I feel in Romania, in Croatia, in Italy, everywhere the same is the pain and you cannot fight it with only your market measures because we need social housing, we need student housing, we need public investment and your predicament and saying that only capitalism will save us will not save the people of Spain. I trust that.
Jorge Buxadé Villalba
Con todo con todo el respeto, colega.
Con todo el respeto, es bla, bla, bla. Desde estas filas es bla, bla, bla que llevan gobernando Europa desde hace setenta años. Que ustedes son los responsables. Ustedes son los responsables de que el empleo juvenil se haya destruido. Ustedes son los responsables de que el costo de la vivienda sea más caro.
Ustedes son los responsables de haber abierto las fronteras de Europa de par en par para que ahora donde vivía una familia en España vivan veinte personas almacenadas y hacinadas. Esta es la realidad y esto es lo que está produciendo el colapso del mercado. Así que aparte de este lado, bla, bla, bla.
Marlena Maląg
Szanowni Państwo, spotykamy się dzisiaj w sprawie bardzo medialnej, rynku mieszkaniowego. Problem w tym, że Komisja Europejska nie ma w tej sprawie bezpośrednich kompetencji. Mimo to proponuje się rozwiązania, które będą obowiązywać w całej Unii. Komisja proponuje wskaźniki cen mieszkań, dochody, popyt, podaż. Problem w tym, że nie uwzględnia lokalnego charakteru tych problemów.
Polska ma patodeweloperkę, mieszkalnictwo budowane hurtowo pod najem, mikromieszkania, rosnące ceny i problemy najmu krótkoterminowego. Hiszpańskie miasta mierzą się z presją migracyjną, wysokimi czynszami i koncentracją zasobów mieszkaniowych. Nie da się tych problemów zmierzyć jedną miarką i znaleźć jednego uniwersalnego rozwiązania. Czy trzeba je rozwiązać? Tak, trzeba te problemy rozwiązać.
Czy rozwiąże je Bruksela? Oczywiście, że nie. Kto powinien to zrobić? Państwa członkowskie. To one najlepiej znają swoje miasta, swoje rynki mieszkaniowe i potrzeby swoich obywateli.
Polityka mieszkaniowa wymaga rozwiązań bliskich ludzi. Dziękuję bardzo.
Billy Kelleher
How we deal with the housing crisis facing European citizens will be the defining moment of our time. To date, we have been undermining intergenerational solidarity and social cohesion. And if we're not careful, we'll fracture society deeply. We're obsessed with process over progress, Commissioner. We simply have stifled any capability in developing infrastructure across Europe, both in terms of water, electricity, roads and infrastructure that underpins housing.
And honestly, at this stage, we know the rulebook is not allowing us to deliver either through the market or through social and affordable housing by local authorities and governments directly. So we need to have an aggressive look at what is holding us back in terms of the regulations that are impinging on our ability to build homes for citizens. I do welcome the act. It does look at short-term lets and it gives greater powers to local authorities and mayors to make decisions based on their local circumstances. But more broadly, we need to ensure that there are no regulations in place that prohibit our ability to build infrastructure that ultimately underpins supply of homes.
Nicolae Ștefănuță
Merci beaucoup, Nicolae Ștefănuță.
Merci, Monsieur le Président. Commissioner, I was in Madrid and it was horrible, you know, as a human person to see this 87-year-old woman dragged out of her house. Thousands of people came out out of solidarity, you know, and thousands of people do not afford the housing they need, which is a basic human European right. It should be a human right. And my problem with the housing plan is that we don't define, the Commission does not define affordability.
And we let it as if to not touch on too many interests. Let me tell you, affordability is if you need several jobs to sustain a living, that's not affordability.
We can find the definition easily, but you don't have to have three jobs to be able to live under a roof. You don't have to wait until you're 40 to be able to move out of your parents' home. How can you start a family? How can you start a family if you don't even have an apartment? So Commissioner, let's act.
Let's work hard against speculation, against big investment funds that make it impossible to live, against Airbnbs. Let's make it hard and give everyone a house.
Jagna Marczułajtis-Walczak
Merci beaucoup cher collègue. Jagna Marczułajtis.
Szanowny panie komisarzu. Chciałabym zacząć od bardzo prostego pytania, czy zapoznał się pan z rekomendacjami Parlamentu Europejskiego dotyczącymi kryzysu mieszkaniowego? Parlament wskazał w nich bardzo konkretne rozwiązania, również dotyczące osób, które dziś są praktycznie wykluczone z rynku mieszkaniowego. W Unii Europejskiej żyje 90 milionów osób z niepełnosprawnościami, co stanowi prawie 24% dorosłej populacji.
Dlatego chciałabym zapytać wprost, czy Komisja zamierza przygotować konkretny instrument legislacyjny dotyczący mieszkań wspomaganych i dostępnego mieszkalnictwa, tak aby osoby z niepełnosprawnościami mogły rzeczywiście korzystać z prawa do niezależnego życia? Bo na razie, kiedy mówimy o działaniach legislacyjnych w obszarze mieszkalnictwa, słyszymy wyłącznie o regulowaniu najmu krótkoterminowego. Co więcej, Komisja stawia kolejne wymogi dotyczące danych i każe nam najpierw udowadniać, że problem rzeczywiście istnieje. Przecież gdyby nie istniał, nie rozmawialibyśmy o nim od ponad dwóch lat. A co z ludźmi, którzy w ogóle nie mają dostępu do realnego dostępu do rynku mieszkaniowego?
Jest jeszcze jedna rzecz. To, co wybudujemy i wyremontujemy dziś, będzie służyło przez dziesięciolecia. Nie możemy więc przegapić szansy, aby zadbać o wspólne standardy dostępności mieszkań. I nie mówię tylko o osobach z niepełnosprawnościami, bo nie każdy z nas będzie osobą niepełnosprawną, ale każdy z nas będzie osobą starszą, wymagającą wsparcia. Dziękuję bardzo.
Panie Przewodniczący, kryzys mieszkaniowy dotyka dziś miliony Europejek i Europejczyków, szczególnie dotyka osoby młode i osoby o niższych dochodach i oczywiście kobiety. Widzimy to wszędzie w Europie.
Joanna Scheuring-Wielgus
Mieszkania i tak już są dla młodych ludzi nieosiągalnym marzeniem, ale to, co robią niektórzy deweloperzy, dosłownie i w przenośni wyciąga młodych ludzi na ulicę. W Madrycie ludzie wyszli na ulicę, bo nie mogli pojąć, jak można wyeksmitować osiemdziesięciosiedmioletnią kobietę, która mieszkała w mieszkaniu przez siedem dekad. W Poznaniu w Polsce ludzie wyszli na ulicę, bo nie mogą pojąć, jak można wyeksmitować samotną matkę z dzieckiem z mieszkania, w którym mieszkała od urodzenia. Cieszę się bardzo, że dzięki socjalistom i demokratom mamy komisarza do spraw mieszkalnictwa i wreszcie w Parlamencie Europejskim rozmawiamy o polityce mieszkaniowej i patrzymy na mieszkanie nie tylko przez pryzmat rynku. Ta regulacja jest pierwszym dobrym krokiem, ale ja czekam na kolejny, na budowę tanich mieszkań.
Dziękuję serdecznie.
Tisztelt képviselőtársaim, tisztelt elnök úr, a család és gyermekeink társadalmunk alapja. A lakás nem pusztán árucikk, hanem az emberi élet és a családalapítás alapvető feltétele. Európa-szerte fiatalok és családok millióinak jelent egyre nagyobb kihívást a megfizethető és saját otthon megteremtése.
Ernő Schaller-Baross
Erre azonban nem újabb uniós korlátozó intézkedésekkel, hanem kiszámítható szabályozással és valódi ösztönzőkkel kell válaszolnunk. Nem az építőipari költségeket kellene tovább növelni átgondolatlan zöld előírásokkal, hanem a lakásépítést kell ösztönözni, és meg kell osztani egymással a működő tagállami megoldásokat. Magyarországon az otthonteremtési támogatások a családi támogatástól a babavárón át az első lakásvásárlókat segítő Otthon Start hitelig a családok saját otthonhoz jutását szolgálták. Kevesebb hatáskörharcra van szükségünk, több saját otthonra, nagyobb kiszámíthatóságra. Köszönöm szépen.
Oké, most hallja, amit mondok, igen. Fideszes képviselő úr a jó tagállami hagyományokra hivatkozik, mint Orbán Viktor kormányának lakáspolitikája. Az lenne a kérdésem, képviselő úr, hogy mégis milyen példával akar elöljárni Európának?
Mondjuk azzal a példával, hogy gyakorlatilag felére csökkent az új lakások építése az Orbán-kormány alatt, mint volt korábban? Vagy azzal a példával, hogy több mint 3500 milliárd forintot öntöttek bele a lakáspiacra úgy, hogy ennek a pénznek a kétharmadát a leggazdagabb 10% kapta? Igen, jól hallják képviselőtársaim, ezek lennének a példák?
Ernő Schaller-Baross
Tisztelt képviselőtársam, a Fidesz-kormány, amit említett, 2016 óta olyan családi otthonteremtési rendszert épített ki, amelynek kézzelfogható eredményei vannak. 2016 és 24 között több mint 263 ezer család kapott CSOK-támogatást, összesen 1,8 milliárd euró értékben. Ehhez jött a falusi CSOK, a babaváró támogatás, és 2024-től pedig a CSOK Plusz, amellyel együtt már 343 ezer család otthonteremtését segítették Magyarországon. Büszkének kell lennünk, és nem itt acsarkodnunk ebben a házban.
Klára Dobrev
Az az igazság, hogy a Fidesz-kormány egyetlenegy dologra lehet büszke, hogy a Matolcsy-gyereknek és társainak New Yorkban és Dubajban tudott ingatlanokat vásárolni. Az ön által felsorolt pénzeknek a kétharmada a leggazdagabb 10 százalékhoz ment, és tudja, hogy mi lett a következménye az önök politikájának? A Fidesz alatt 300 százalékkal, képviselőtársaim itt a teremben jól hallják, 300 százalékkal emelkedtek Magyarországon az ingatlanárak. A felső 10 százalék meggazdagodott, a 90 százaléknak meg esélye sincsen Magyarországon lakáshoz jutni. Erre legyenek maguk büszkék.
A számok magukért beszélnek, képviselőtársam. 343 ezer családot segített az Orbán-kormány saját otthonhoz, tulajdonhoz, akárhogy csűrik-csavarják. Köszönöm.
Aurelijus Veryga
Pirmininke, komisare, būsto įperkamumas nėra vien ekonomikos ir socialinės politikos klausimas, tai yra ir demografijos klausimas. Jaunų šeimų galimybė turėti nuosavą tinkamo dydžio būstą įvardija kaip vieną svarbiausių veiksnių sprendžiant, kada kurti šeimą ir kiek vaikų turėti. Eurofound taip pat konstatuoja, kad būsto krizė Europoje atitolina jaunų žmonių savarankišką gyvenimą ir šeimos kūrimą. Tačiau kalbėdami apie būsto prieinamumą turime sąžiningai įvertinti ir tai, kiek patys reguliavimu didiname naujo būsto kainą.
Vienas pavyzdžių - vis griežtėjantys pastatų energetinio efektyvumo reikalavimai. Energijos taupymas yra svarbus tikslas, tačiau kiekvienas papildomas reikalavimas turi būti proporcingas. Jei jau efektyvaus pastato energijos sąnaudas sumažiname dar keliais procentais, bet dėl to reikšmingai padidiname statybos kainą, turime klausti, ar nauda pateisina kainą. Todėl siūlau, kad vertinant naujus reikalavimus būtų privalomai vertinamas ir jų poveikis būsto įperkamumui. Dėkoju.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup, nous poursuivons la discussion. Je ne pourrai plus accéder aux demandes de blue card à présent et je donne la parole à notre collègue Gualmini.
Elisabetta Gualmini
Merci Monsieur le Président, les protestations sur la maison sont le signe de l'échec de la démocratie libérale qui avait promis prospérité et services publics pour tous et n'a pas maintenu les promesses. La maison est le premier anneau de la chaîne de sécurité pour chacun de nous, si manque celle-là, chaque autre droit devient plus fragile. Arrêtons aussi de prendre en dérision les jeunes en disant "investissez sur le futur, préparez-vous", mais sans leur donner les bases matérielles pour commencer.
Va inserita la valutazione di impatto generazionale in ogni provvedimento legislativo, la valutazione di impatto generazionale anche a Bruxelles. Ho sentito colate di ideologia da una parte e dall'altra, ma qui non è questione di lotta di classe, qui è questione anche di lotta dentro le classi perché i piccoli proprietari che hanno due appartamenti e uno lo mettono ad affitto breve per guadagnare qualcosa non possono essere equiparati alle grandi multinazionali che speculano a livello internazionale. Meno ideologie e risposte concrete. Alla rabbia si risponde con soluzioni concrete, più offerta di case.
Regina Doherty
Thank you President, Commissioner, Minister, colleagues, Europe has finally recognized that housing is an emergency, it's a crisis, our own country, our own citizens know this too, so now we need to act like it is. We've shown that where there is a political will permitting can be accelerated. It's no surprise that for energy and defense projects Europe has taken the necessary urgent action to cut red tape and shorten approval times, so why not for housing? A home that takes years to get through a planning permission system becomes unaffordable.
It's also a home that may never ever be built. So we need to see the same urgency for housing. Faster permitting, simpler planning rules, greater access to finance, and a construction capacity to actually deliver the homes that every one of us knows we need. So Commissioner, I'm asking you to be bold. Bring forward the simplification package that was asked for by the EPP and the Housing Committee as soon as possible.
Set ambitious targets for reducing permitting times and use every available tool in the European kitbox to make sure that we actually build the millions of houses that we need so desperately for our citizens.
Alex Agius Saliba
Merci beaucoup, Alex Agius Saliba.
Grazzi President, li jkollok dar mhuwiex lussu. Li jkollok dar hija bażi għal ħajja diċenti, iżda tul ta' żmien is-suq tal-proprjetà ma kienx qed jaħdem favur il-familji tagħna. F'Malta qed naraw kif iż-żieda f'short-lets waslet għal żieda sostanzjali fil-prezzijiet u għamlitha diffiċli ħafna għal ħafna Maltin biex jaffordjaw id-dar tagħhom. U rridu nkunu ċari. Mhux qed nitkellmu dwar familji li għandhom kamra żejda u tiddeċiedi li tikriha.
Qed nitkellmu dwar investituri kbar li jixtru proprjetajiet li qabel kienu djar tal-familji. Qed nitkellmu wkoll dwar kif pjattaformi bħal Airbnb u Booking għandhom jirrispettaw ir-regoli tal-pajjiżi li joperaw fih.
L-awtoritajiet lokali għandhom jingħataw ir-riżorsi u l-appoġġ kollu meħtieġ biex ikunu jistgħu jinfurzaw ir-regoli speċjalment meta jkunu qed jiddejljaw ma' kumpaniji globali tat-teknoloġija. Biex insolvu din il-problema rridu mmorru lil hinn mill-kritika. Irridu nżidu l-provvista. U dan huwa eżattament dak li qed jagħmel gvern Laburista f'Malta fl-aħħar snin. Bnejna aktar akkomodazzjoni soċjali.
Żidna l-akkomodazzjoni affordabbli. Għenna liż-żgħażagħ tagħna biex ikunu jistgħu jixtru d-dar tagħhom permezz tal-iskema tas-self soċjali. U issa qed nagħmlu pass ieħor. Il-gvern qed jinvesti wkoll f'xiri ta' proprjetajiet biex jgħin lil dawk li għandhom bżonn dar permezz tal-iskema tal-equity sharing.
Georg Mayer
Merci beaucoup. Georg Mayer.
Ja, danke schön, Herr Präsident, geschätzte Kollegen. Leistung muss sich wieder lohnen in Europa. Ich glaube, das ist ein Ansatz, den wir hier auch gerne mal verwenden könnten. Und wer arbeitet, muss sich eine Wohnung leisten können. Ich glaube, da sind wir uns alle d'accord hier im Haus.
Und es gibt aber immer mehr Menschen, die sich das schlicht nicht leisten können. Und jetzt, und da wären wir schon sehr skeptisch, will Brüssel leistbares Wohnen zur Chefsache machen.
Aber eine Wohnung wird nicht deshalb billiger, weil sich eine weitere Behörde darum kümmert. Mehr Wohnungen, schnellere Genehmigungen, ja, aber dafür brauchen wir weniger Vorschriften und wir brauchen bezahlbare Energie, denn wer sich die Energiepreise in Europa anschaut und die Benzinpreise anschaut, dem wird klar, dass den Menschen immer weniger Geld im Börsel bleibt. Und Wien ist nicht Graz, und ein Tiroler Tourismusort ist keine kleine Landgemeinde. Man kann das nicht vergleichen. Was vor Ort gebraucht wird, das können noch immer die Menschen vor Ort am besten entscheiden.
Und deshalb sage ich: Lasst die Gemeinden handeln und macht ihnen das Bauen nicht noch schwerer. Für uns heißt das am Monatsende, dass den Menschen mehr zum Leben bleiben muss. Weniger Bürokratie, weniger Kosten, mehr Wohnungen.
Lara Magoni
Grazie, Presidente. Davanti alla crisi abitativa, la scelta dovrebbe essere chiara: dobbiamo costruire più case, non imporre chi può utilizzare quelle che già esistono e chi no. Perché oggi l'Europa ha bisogno di case. La stessa Commissione europea stima che ne servano oltre due milioni in più ogni anno fino al 2035. Eppure discutiamo di restrizioni alla proprietà e agli affitti brevi, che rappresentano solo l'1,2% del patrimonio abitativo europeo.
Siamo chiari: se il problema è la scarsità, la soluzione non può essere vietare.
Una famiglia che affitta per qualche settimana la seconda casa in montagna non è un fondo speculativo e vietarlo di farlo non crea magicamente un appartamento per uno studente o per una famiglia. Le case si rendono accessibili costruendo, rigenerando, recuperando gli immobili vuoti e liberando l'offerta dalla burocrazia. Non si risolve la crisi abitativa facendo della proprietà privata il capro espiatorio. Più case, non più divieti. Più offerta, non meno libertà.
Grazie.
Engin Eroglu
Merci beaucoup. Engin Eroglu.
Sehr geehrter Herr Kommissar, ich bin sehr glücklich, dass wir uns mit der Wohnungskrise in der Europäischen Union unterhalten, aber wir gehen in die komplett falsche Richtung. Wer möchte, dass mehr Wohnraum in der Europäischen Union existiert, der muss sich um das Bauen kümmern, nicht mehr Regulierung schaffen. Nur mehr gebauter Wohnraum schafft günstigere Wohnungen und ermöglicht jedem letztendlich auch den Traum zu erfüllen, Wohnraum zu schaffen und vielleicht für die Altersvorsorge, weil da der Staat oft verzichtet, eine Wohnung zu kaufen oder zu bauen, die er vermieten kann. Und das, was wir im letzten Mandat gemacht haben mit ESG und Taxonomie, hat genau dazu geführt, dass Wohnen teurer wurde. Schauen Sie sich doch mal die enorme Bürokratie an, die die Kommission geschaffen hat durch ESG, was das Bauen verteuert.
Schauen Sie sich die enormen Zinsaufschläge an, die wir haben, weil in Taxonomie gewisse Baustoffe letztendlich bevorzugt werden gegenüber anderen. Das macht das Bauen teurer. Und wenn Sie wollen, dass mehr gebaut wird, dann hören Sie auf mit diesem Regulierungswahn und fangen Sie wieder an, allen möglichen Menschen, die das möchten, das Bauen möglich zu machen. Das geht nur durch mehr Wohnraum und nicht durch mehr Regeln.
Markus Ferber
Merci beaucoup, cher collègue. Markus Ferber.
Herr Präsident, Herr Kommissar, liebe Kolleginnen und liebe Kollegen, der sogenannte Affordable Housing Act ist nicht nur enttäuschend, er ist eine politische Nebelkerze. Wir haben ein Angebotsproblem. In Europa wird zu wenig gebaut. Und wer ein Angebotsproblem hat, der braucht Lösungen auf der Angebotsseite. Ihr Vorschlag setzt stattdessen auf Kurzzeitvermietungen und verlangt neue Berichte.
Mangelverwaltung schafft keinen neuen Wohnraum. Keine einzige Wohnung entsteht durch Ihren Vorschlag. Dabei haben wir im Sonderausschuss zur Wohnraumkrise ja Ihnen einen klaren Auftrag mitgegeben. Durchforsten Sie den gesamten europäischen Rechtskörper, streichen Sie, was Bauen verhindert, legen Sie einen Housing-Omnibus vor, und zwar mit einem klaren Ziel: Genehmigungen straffen, Vorgaben pragmatisch fassen, Vergabeverfahren vereinfachen. Das ist jetzt benötigt.
Wer will, dass gebaut wird, muss das Bauen erlauben, Herr Kommissar.
Sie sind Kommissar für die Menschen in Europa und nicht nur für die spanischen Sozialisten. Vielen Dank.
Merci beaucoup, Zelda Gomes.
Isilda Gomes
Senhor Presidente, Senhor Comissário, a poucos deve ter escapado a ironia de estarmos a discutir habitação acessível logo após recebermos aqui o Primeiro-Ministro de Portugal, que na semana passada fez aprovar legislação que liberaliza ainda mais o mercado de arrendamento, permite maiores aumentos de renda e facilita os despejos. A falta de rendas ou a falta de regras já deixou as rendas incomportáveis. A solução não pode ser aumentar a dose do remédio que está a matar o paciente. Foi este caminho que levou a que professores, médicos, enfermeiros e a esmagadora maioria das pessoas não consiga hoje pagar uma casa. Esta situação não é sustentável nem aceitável.
Precisamos de um forte programa, Senhor Comissário, de construção de habitação pública, repito, construção de habitação pública, apoiado por fundos europeus que coloque casas no mercado a preços acessíveis para que todos tenham direito a uma vida digna e construir uma família sem viver todos os meses sem a angústia de não saber se conseguirá pagar a renda.
Que não nos falte a coragem e a determinação. Muito obrigado.
Merci beaucoup, Marco Falcone.
Marco Falcone
Thank you, President. Mister Commissioner, dinanzi alle crescenti aspettative dei cittadini europei sulla casa, l'Unione Europea deve offrire risposte chiare e concrete. Il nuovo Housing Act finora è però lontano da questo obiettivo. Si concentra su un aspetto molto marginale, gli affitti brevi, proponendo modelli già sperimentati con esiti negativi. Per questo oggi vorrei richiamare tutti al buon senso.
Ci sono persone che cercano un'abitazione, giovani e famiglie che faticano ad acquistarla e lavoratori che non riescono a sostenere un affitto adeguato.
La risposta deve quindi partire da qui: costruire più case, recuperare gli edifici inutilizzati, mettendo a sistema patrimonio esistente e nuovi investimenti. Ecco perché, per questa ragione, la delegazione italiana del Partito Popolare Europeo chiede a lei, Commissario, di rivedere profondamente questa proposta, cercando di semplificare, rigenerando le nostre città e costruendo più case per i nostri cittadini europei.
Marc Angel
Merci, Monsieur le Président, dear Commissioner, dear colleagues, a home is not a luxury nor a financial asset, a home is a right. Yet across Europe, people are losing that right. There are Mari Carmen in all our Member States. A home was once affordable on an ordinary salary, but today, for too many people, this is an unreachable dream because the market has failed us. 1.4 million people in Europe face homelessness, while too many sharks on the market consider houses and apartments not as a home, but as a financial product to only generate profit.
The Affordable Housing Act, a good first step, gives us an opportunity to deliver change by regulating short-term rentals. But we also need stronger tenants' rights, rent capping, better protection against illegal evictions and greater investment in social and affordable housing. We must tackle speculation and harmful tax rules. Citizens are calling on us to act. We need the courage to put people before profit and make decent, affordable housing a reality for all Europeans.
Member States, regions and municipalities must not shy away from their responsibility.
Jüri Ratas
Austatud president ja volinik, ametikaaslased. Ma loomulikult tervitan komisjoni algatust tegeleda Euroopa eluasemekriisiga, sest see probleem puudutab kõige haavatavamaid, aga ka keskklassi ja noori. Samas ei saa Euroopa eluasemepoliitikat kirjutada ühe mõõdupuu järgi. Tallinnas, Madriidis ja Pariisis ei ole samad probleemid ning veel vähem on sama olukord suurlinnades ja väiksemates maapiirkondades. Eesti maapiirkondades on küsimus selles, kuidas hoida noori inimesi kohapeal ning kuidas tekkiks piisavalt nõudlust uute eluasemete ehitamiseks.
Samas pealinnas Tallinnas on mure sageli vastupidine. Uusi kortereid on, kuid hinnad on nii kõrged, et noortel peredel on raske koguda vajalikku sissemakset, kuigi nende sissetulek võimaldaks igakuist laenumakset tasuda. Suur osa sissetulekust kulub aga üürile ja see võtab palju aastaid aega, et sellist summat koguda. Arvan, et siin saavad liikmesriigid rohkem appi tulla käenduste ja garantiidega. Aitäh.
Speaker 196
Herr talman, kommissionären, unga kan idag inte flytta hemifrån. Barnfamiljer trängs och vanliga löntagare har inte råd att bo där jobben finns. Det senare gör det dessutom svårare både för företag och offentlig sektor att rekrytera den personal man behöver. En fungerande bostadsmarknad är därför inte bara en social fråga utan också en förutsättning för jobb och tillväxt. Och det är riktigt att EU kan inte bygga lägenheter i Stockholm, Skellefteå eller Borlänge.
Det är riktigt att korttidsuthyrning har andra effekter i Barcelona än Alvesta. Men EU kan och måste hjälpa till att riva de hinder som står i vägen för regioner, städer och medlemsländer att bedriva en aktiv bostadspolitik. I Sverige har högerregeringen testat att lämna bostadsbyggandet till marknaden och efter fyra år så har vi resultatet: antalet byggstarter har halverats. Det är inte värdigt. Det är ett svek mot alla de som saknar en bostad.
Det är ett svek mot alla de som arbetar med att bygga våra bostäder. Politiken behöver ta ett ansvar på alla nivåer. Tack för ordet.
Borja Giménez Larraz
Merci beaucoup. Borja Giménez Larraz.
Señor comisario, este pretendía ser un primer paso en la dirección correcta, pero es solo una decepción. La primera y única propuesta legislativa presentada se centra en regular, en intervenir el mercado, abre incluso la puerta a limitar la compra de segundas residencias, medidas que tienen un difícil encaje con pilares fundamentales del proyecto europeo y que además, a estas alturas, debería saber que son ineficaces y enormemente contraproducentes. Mire, por desgracia, mi país es el mayor laboratorio de este tipo de políticas de toda la Unión Europea. El Gobierno de Sánchez lleva ocho años a la vanguardia y bien, le voy a dar algunos datos. Los precios de la vivienda han aumentado un 74 % y los alquileres un 45 %.
Gracias, presidente.
Borja Giménez Larraz
Sus políticas han expulsado a una de cada tres viviendas del mercado. La edad de emancipación de los jóvenes supera los 30 años. Se ha generado un déficit de viviendas de 750 000 viviendas y la vivienda ha pasado de ser el problema 16 a ser el primero de los ciudadanos. No parece el mejor espejo en el que mirarse. El impulso de este tipo de medidas solo puede responder a prejuicios ideológicos o intereses políticos y electorales.
Señor comisario, céntrense en lo importante, en lo necesario, en lo que le sugirió este Parlamento. Necesitamos movilizar suelo, acelerar las licencias, reducir impuestos, impulsar la innovación, la industrialización, atraer inversiones tanto públicas como privadas y garantizar la seguridad jurídica.
Esos deben de ser los principales objetivos. Gracias.
Klára Dobrev
Senki nem akar 30 évesen koleszos életet élni. Egyszerűen kinövünk belőle, és mégis ma Magyarországon és Európában is fiatalok egyre gyakrabban kénytelenek egy szobában lakni, mert nem bírják megfizetni a bérleti díjakat, lakásra meg esélyük sincsen. És hogy miért van ez így? Mert amit ma Európában és Magyarországon ingatlanpiacnak nevezünk, az egy szabad rabláson alapuló, teljesen torz rendszer, ahol milliárdos ingatlanbefektetők gazdagodnak meg, miközben milliók számára kilátástalanná válik az, hogy saját lakáshoz jussanak. A piacon kellene versenyezniük ezekkel a milliárdos ingatlanbefektetőkkel, spekulánsokkal, akiknek a lakás nem otthon, hanem egy befektetés, amiből meg akarnak gazdagodni.
Na ennek kell Európában véget vetni. Igenis meg kell adóztatni keményen a lakásspekulációt, bérlakásokat kell építeni az önkormányzatok bevonásával. És hogyha azt mondjuk, a lakhatás alapjog, akkor tegyük hozzá: nem alapjog meggazdagodni mások nyomorán. Köszönöm szépen.
Erlauben Sie mir als deutsche Staatsbürgerin eine Vorbemerkung. In unserem Grundgesetz, unserer Verfassung, steht: Eigentum verpflichtet.
Gabriele Bischoff
Sein Gebrauch soll zugleich dem Wohle der Allgemeinheit dienen. Für manche ist das schon Kommunismus, oder für andere, die reden von Freiheit und meinen aber Rechtlosigkeit. Und wir wissen aus jedem Western, wem Rechtlosigkeit dient. Und ich will die Debatte noch mal zurückholen. Wir stehen hier, um über diesen Vorschlag zur Kurzzeitvermietung zu diskutieren, weil die Bürgermeister und Bürgermeisterinnen, Linke, Konservative, Liberale, Grüne, die Kommission gebeten haben, gesagt haben: Wir brauchen mehr Rechtssicherheit, sonst müssen wir Vertragsverletzungsverfahren fürchten.
Und genau dazu dient dieser Vorschlag. Er war nie gemeint, alle Probleme zu lösen. Oder wenn man hier so tut: Wasch mir den Pelz, aber mach mich nicht nass. Wir können nicht diesen konkreten Schritt für die Menschen tun, weil wir eigentlich viel größere Schritte noch gehen müssen. So funktioniert das nicht, und das ist auch nicht verantwortlich.
Mir kam das hier eben ein bisschen vor manchmal wie eine Zombie-Debatte.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup. Bien, nous allons à présent prendre les temps de parole dans le cadre de la procédure Catch-the-eye.
Je ne pourrai pas malheureusement donner la parole à tout le monde puisque nous avons pris déjà beaucoup de retard, mais je respecterai un équilibre entre les groupes politiques et je donnerai évidemment la préférence à ceux qui sont en séance depuis le début de cette discussion. Et pour commencer, Giorgos Autias.
Georgios Aftias
Κύριε Πρόεδρε, θεωρείστε ένας από τους καλύτερους νομικούς της Ευρώπης. Γιατί; Γιατί συνδυάσατε το στεγαστικό με το δημογραφικό. Κύριε Jørgensen, μπορείτε να πάρετε πολλές ιδέες από τον κύριο Πρόεδρο που σήμερα προεδρεύει. Η Ευρώπη χρειάζεται χρήματα, χρειάζεται πάρα πολλά χρήματα για να μπορέσει να λύσει το στεγαστικό που είναι και δημογραφικό.
Δηλαδή, γρήγορη χρηματοδότηση των νέων, φορολογικά κίνητρα σε οικογένειες, απλούστευση των αδειών για να βγάλεις μια άδεια να χτίσεις ένα σπίτι πρέπει να κάνεις εκατό προσευχές. Και βέβαια χρηματοδοτήσεις ανακαινίσεων ακίνητα σε δήμους και περιφέρειες και πολλά κίνητρα μετεγκατάστασης. Κύριε Jørgensen, με ευχολόγια δεν λύνεται το πρόβλημα. Λύστε το τώρα με διπλασιασμό των κονδυλίων. Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ και ακούστε και τις προτάσεις του κυρίου Προέδρου που είναι πολύ σημαντικές.
Να είστε καλά.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Presidente, comisario Jørgensen, es evidente después de un debate tan intenso que la ley europea de vivienda es profundamente ideológica y marca una línea divisoria entre quienes creen que es un derecho y parte de una aspiración a una vida digna y quienes creen que es sencillamente un bien de mercado sujeto a toda especulación. Pero entre quienes creen que es un derecho el Estado es insurreccional, particularmente cuando como en España la distribución de competencias permite a comunidades autónomas, regiones y municipios gobernados por la derecha obstruir cualquier esfuerzo por parte del gobierno progresista por resolver lo que es esa aspiración. Pero hay una huelga general en ciernes que no es contra el gobierno sino contra la especulación y hay algo que la Unión Europea puede hacer contra la especulación de los fondos de inversión que en España se llaman fondos buitre y solo la Unión Europea puede hacerlo y es introducir medidas de restricción a la libre circulación de capitales para impedir que los fondos de inversión puedan acaparar vivienda encareciendo exponencialmente su precio y expulsando del mercado a la clase trabajadora y a la juventud que aspira. Gracias.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Arvoisa puhemies, Suomen Maaninka ei ole sama kuin Espanjan Marbella.
EU-tasolla on tästä huolimatta raivoisa hinku ratkaista joidenkin maiden asuntopulat EU-tason toimilla ja rahoituksella. Suomessa moni pitäjä on ollut muuttotappiokunta jo vuosikymmeniä. Vastaavasti suuret kaupungit ovat vetäneet väestöä magneetin lailla ja asuntojen hinnat ovat nousseet. Tämä suunta on ymmärretty, emmekä ole kaivanneet mitään EU:n asuntovaliokuntia tätä pulmaa ratkomaan. Kansallisvaltiot ratkovat kansalliset ongelmansa omin keinoin.
On täysin mahdollista rakentaa lisää asuntoja ilman EU-tason tukea, uskokaa tai älkää. Suomalaisten asuminen ja rakentamiskulut ovat jo muutenkin kalliita, pakkanen puraisee ja se tekee loven myös suomalaisten lompakkoon. Siihen lompakkoon ei tarvita enää yhtään uutta EU:n puraisemaa lovea. Kiitos.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ κύριε Πρόεδρε. Κύριε Επίτροπε, η στέγαση αποτελεί θεμελιώδες κοινωνικό δικαίωμα και βασική προϋπόθεση για αξιοπρεπή ζωή, όχι κερδοσκοπικό περιουσιακό στοιχείο ή προνόμιο για λίγους.
Elena Kountoura
Η πράξη για την οικονομικά προσιτή στέγαση αποτελεί ένα πρώτο βήμα, αλλά δεν αρκεί. Δεν μπορείτε να ζητάτε από τις τοπικές αρχές να περιμένουν τρία χρόνια πριν παρέμβουν για να αποδείξουν ότι η κρίση έχει ήδη καταστρέψει την αγορά κατοικίας. Ούτε να μετράτε τη στεγαστική πίεση με γενικούς δείκτες που συχνά κρύβουν την πραγματικότητα μικρών νησιών και τουριστικών περιοχών. Αυτή η κρίση για να αντιμετωπιστεί χρειάζεται ευρωπαϊκή χρηματοδότηση, δεσμευτικά μέτρα, πραγματικά εργαλεία για τους δήμους, νομική ασφάλεια, πρόσβαση στα δεδομένα των πλατφορμών και απαιτείται μόνιμη αύξηση της δημόσιας και κοινωνικής κατοικίας, ένα ευρωπαϊκό πρόγραμμα κατασκευής και ανακαίνισης προσιτών κατοικιών, προστασία της πρώτης κατοικίας, προστασία από εξώσεις και πλειστηριασμούς και αποτελεσματικούς μηχανισμούς ρύθμισης των ενοικίων. Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ.
Εκατοντάδες χιλιάδες οικογένειες χάνουν τα σπίτια τους. Δίνεται μάχη με διαδηλώσεις, διαμαρτυρίες στην Ισπανία, την Ελλάδα και η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση ρίχνει κι άλλο λάδι στη φωτιά.
Lefteris Nikolaou-Alavanos
Με αυτόν τον κανονισμό, προωθώντας την πολιτική κατοικία-εμπόρευμα, χρηματοδοτείτε επενδύσεις και τα κέρδη των κατασκευαστικών ομίλων με συμπράξεις δημοσίου-ιδιωτικού τομέα και κρατικά-ευρωενωσιακά κεφάλαια στο όνομα της ενίσχυσης της προσφοράς. Αυτή η πολιτική διαιωνίζει την πανάκριβη κατοικία, τη βραχυχρόνια μίσθωση, την εξάρτηση από τον τραπεζικό δανεισμό, προετοιμάζει τον επόμενο γύρο πλειστηριασμών, παραδίδοντας τα σπίτια του λαού στα κοράκια funds και τραπεζών. Αυτή η πολιτική αύξησε τις τιμές κατοικιών και ενοικίων 61% σε 10 χρόνια, όπως και οι πράσινες προδιαγραφές της Ευρωπαϊκής Ένωσης που ανεβάζουν τις τιμές των οικοδομικών υλικών. Η στέγη είναι κοινωνικό αγαθό, όχι εμπόρευμα, όπως τη θέλουν Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση, αστικά κόμματα και κυβερνήσεις. Διεκδικούμε αποκλειστικά κρατικό σχεδιασμό και κατασκευαστικό πρόγραμμα, επανασύσταση του Οργανισμού Εργατικής Κατοικίας, απαγόρευση πλειστηριασμών λαϊκών κατοικιών, αξιοποίηση κενών κατοικιών και ξενοδοχείων για δωρεάν στέγαση των φοιτητών.
Μόνο ο λαός σώζει τα σπίτια του λαού.
Gracias, presidente. La vivienda es la mayor fractura social de nuestro tiempo y, como siempre en política, se trata de elegir. Con esta ley, Europa se encuentra ante una disyuntiva: elegir entre la impunidad de los fondos buitre o la tranquilidad de las familias; elegir entre la especulación salvaje que expulsa a los jóvenes o el derecho innegociable a un techo.
Marcos Ros Sempere
Se acabó el tiempo de mirar hacia otro lado. Hay que poner freno a esta sangría, también desde aquí, también desde la Unión Europea, y también asignando fondos de la política de cohesión que sirvan para construir viviendas públicas que equilibren el mercado, para invertir como nunca se ha hecho desde lo público, para recuperar nuestro parque público de vivienda y para proteger a quien lo necesita. Toca elegir entre el negocio de unos pocos o una vida digna para la mayoría. La vivienda es un derecho y garantizarlo es nuestra responsabilidad. Muchas gracias.
Jean-Marc Germain
Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues, Marie-Carmen est devenue le symbole de la situation dramatique du logement dans l'Union européenne. Une femme de 87 ans expulsée de force de chez elle à la demande d'un fonds d'investissement. La Commission européenne nous propose aujourd'hui un règlement sur le logement abordable pour lutter contre les locations de courte durée et pour un guichet unique pour accéder aux financements européens. C'est bienvenu, mais vous le savez, Monsieur le Commissaire, il faudra bien d'autres leviers d'action pour réussir à faire face à la crise du logement. D'abord, il faut des outils pour les États membres et pour les collectivités locales pour plafonner les loyers dans les zones tendues.
Ensuite, il faut des outils pour réquisitionner les logements vacants. Et enfin, il faudra un jour ou l'autre créer un fonds européen pour le logement abordable et durable comme l'est aujourd'hui le Fonds social européen. Sans ça, il n'y aura pas de réponse durable au logement et il y aura d'autres Maria Carmen qui seront expulsées par des fonds spéculatifs. Je vous remercie.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup. Je rends la parole à présent à la Commission, au Commissaire Dan Jørgensen.
Dan Jørgensen
Thank you and thank you all for a very good debate. So although there has been obviously differences of opinions, there's also been a lot of common ground. We seem to agree most of us that we do have a housing crisis in Europe and we do need to act. Now some of you argue that we're not doing enough, others argue that we're going too far. To those who think we're not doing enough, I can say I agree and we will do more.
But this is an important first step and it will help us solve some of the challenges that we're facing. Short-term rentals are an increasing problem.
It is driving people out of their homes. It is leading to an increase in prices. Same goes for vacant homes. It is in many cities a real challenge, a real problem and now we give the opportunity to do something about it. To those who think we're going too far, I have two messages.
One is I doubt your populations and your voters agree with you on that. It's very, very clear that all over Europe our citizens are demanding action. They're seeing how firefighters, teachers, nurses, people with ordinary normal jobs can no longer live where they serve. This is totally unacceptable and we need to act. My second answer is remember this is a proposal that gives cities, regions, member states opportunities.
We respect the subsidiarity principle. We don't force cities to do something that they do not want to do, but we provide legal certainty. We provide a path, a toolbox, ways to deal with some of these problems. I look forward to keep discussing this with you and to making this into real legislation that can then hopefully help our citizens and help alleviate the crisis that we're in. Thank you.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup Monsieur le Commissaire. Thomas Byrne pour le Conseil.
Thomas Byrne
Thank you Vice-President and Commissioner and members. I think this debate was very interesting with strong views but yet a lot of commonality. The Council is also considering the Affordable Housing Act. It has just reached us of course the same as the Parliament. We will have a detailed analysis of the texts in the working group I think tomorrow and our work will continue I think as efficiently as possible under the Irish presidency to get agreement at the Council and then come back to the Parliament with trilogue hopefully and again to provide an answer to European citizens who I think are looking for solutions in this area.
Thank you.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup Monsieur le Ministre.
Le débat est clos. Avant d'annoncer l'ordre du jour suivant, je voudrais vous communiquer que le groupe Renew Europe a communiqué à la présidente une décision relative à des modifications apportées aux nominations au sein des délégations. Cette décision figurera au procès-verbal de la séance d'aujourd'hui et prendra effet à la date de cette annonce. L'ordre du jour appelle à présent la déclaration de la Commission sur le projet pilote sur les alliances scolaires européennes et sa contribution à l'éducation et à la citoyenneté, aux compétences démocratiques et aux valeurs européennes. J'attire votre attention sur le fait qu'il n'y aura qu'un tour de parole des orateurs des groupes politiques pour ce débat.
Il n'y aura donc pas d'intervention à la demande ni de carton bleu. Nous avons le plaisir d'accueillir à nouveau Madame la Commissaire, vice-présidente exécutive Minat-Su Roxana, à qui je donne la parole immédiatement.
Roxana Mînzatu
Merci, Monsieur le Vice-Président.
Honorable members, the European school alliances are an important pillar of the education package that we are working on and that we will present early November this year. And towards that objective, I want to thank this house for the very strong interest it has taken on the European partnerships for schools development, which is really a step towards the work that we are preparing to deliver to our pupils and our teachers across the European Union. A lot has happened since my colleague Commissioner Hansen delivered here a statement on behalf of the European Commission then in March 25, so last year, on European schools alliances. And let me just briefly say that yes, we are quite motivated because meanwhile we have seen the PISA 2025 results. We have performed an analysis in the Commission on these results.
I say this very often, most of us know it, around one in three of our teenagers, 15-year-olds, is underachieving, so they do not have the basic proficiency in reading and in mathematics. One in four is underperforming in science.
At the same time, when we look at the top performers, this number is also falling in Europe. And now we are seeing this trend with our, with our pupils for the past decade already in Europe, so that tells us that it's not by accident and that we really need to act to reverse this trend. Uh, the CULT Committee in, in the European Parliament proposed a draft motion on the agenda today to put a strong emphasis on citizenship education and European values. This also underlines the importance of democratic participation, the importance of critical thinking, of resilience to disinformation, and all this from an early age. Citizenship education is what I've always said, one of the five basic skills, and with that in mind, I very much welcome this motion.
Now, earlier this year, we launched European Partnerships for School Development, the call to, to support these partnerships. With a budget of around 20 million euros in the first Erasmus+ call for this topic, we already fund 40 projects across almost all EU Member States, which include nearly 400 school authorities and, and schools. And these projects actually have just started their activity 1st of, of October.
I would give just three examples of these European Partnerships for School Development that we already support. The Hungarian-Estonian Dignity project is making digital learning environments safer and more respectful and teaching young people how to use AI responsibly. And this is such a relevant topic nowadays as we discuss social media and the mental well-being of our children. Then the French-German project called MathLink is improving how mathematics is being taught through shared resources and through better support for vulnerable pupils. And the third example that I would give is a Romanian-Greek-Turkish project called EZ-IT, making inclusive teaching of literacy and mathematics practical and scalable through mentoring, through in-house training and through better monitoring.
Now these projects, as I've said, have just started. What we learn from their implementation will of course inform the preparation of the European Schools Alliances tool, which we will launch with the 2028 Erasmus+ working program and then of course plan to scale up.
The reality is that too many young people in Europe are falling behind in literacy, in mathematics, in science, in digital skills and AI, and in citizenship skills. And the alliances are meant to help schools across Europe tackle this underachievement. They will focus on the most important and of course the most urgent gaps and help us scale up what works best across our education systems. And that is how I think we efficiently prepare our young people for the age of artificial intelligence everywhere in our societies, our lives, our economies, for the jobs of not just today but of tomorrow. To do this, we need school authorities, and this is an important aspect.
School authorities who know the school's challenges best, who work together with school leaders, with teachers, with experts across Europe. Together they can develop and put into practice concrete actions so that they improve the learning processes in schools. Now the alliances, and I want to close with this, are built and will be built and scaled up with four important principles in mind.
First, that, and this is very important, that they must reach pupils and teachers in disadvantaged areas. Second, that they must have a geographical balance across our European Union. Third, that they must generate a lasting change, a systemic change and improvement in the learning processes. Erasmus is amazing, but we need to capitalize on these experiences and produce a durable change in the learning processes. And fourth, of course, we want simple, agile, easy-to-implement projects, so no administrative burden on schools, on teachers, because they already have their work cut out.
So I thank you, and I really look forward to your contributions to this important debate.
Younous Omarjee
Merci beaucoup, Madame la Vice-présidente Binsatou, et j'ai le plaisir de donner la parole à notre excellent collègue Helder Sousa Silva.
Hélder Sousa Silva
Merci, Monsieur le Président, Madame Commissioner and dear colleagues. European competitiveness begins long before people enter the labour market. It begins at school. Today, 46% of European small and medium-sized enterprises struggle to find workers with the right skillings, the right skills.
More than half of EU companies see this shortage as an obstacle to investment. We cannot allow skills shortage to hold back European growth. This is where European schools alliances can turn a European problem into a concrete European solution. The proposal is to connect schools from different countries through structured networks, enabling teachers to work together, students to benefit from learning that is more open to Europe, and the best teaching practices to be shared and replicated across borders. This is not just about mobility.
It is about improving the quality of education and a better preparing of our young people by giving them strong foundations, digital skills, and critical thinking abilities. A school in a rural, remote, or peripheral region should be able to join a European network and give its students access to experiences and opportunities that are not always within their reach.
But we want alliances that are demanding when it comes to results, not bureaucracy, with simple rules and clear criteria to measure participation and learning outcomes. And vocational education and training, VET, must also be part of this effort. This is how we improve education without leaving anyone behind. If we want more competitive companies tomorrow, we need more connected schools today. Thank you so much.
Grazie, grazie. Grazie a lei, onorevole. Ha facoltà ora di intervenire l'onorevole Repp. Prego.
Sabrina Repp
Wenn wir über Erasmus+ sprechen, dann denken viele zunächst an Studierende im Ausland. Aber warum sollte Europa eigentlich erst an der Universität beginnen? Ich erinnere mich noch gut an meine Schulzeit. Wir sollten an einem Austausch mit Jugendlichen aus Lettland teilnehmen. Eigentlich wollte ich mitmachen, aber sofort hatte ich hunderte Zweifel im Kopf.
Wo soll die Austauschschülerin bei uns schlafen, weil unsere Wohnung so klein ist? Wie soll sie mit meinen Eltern kommunizieren, die kein Englisch sprechen können?
Und können meine Eltern sich später überhaupt den Flug leisten, wenn ich sie besuchen soll? Genau solche Fragen dürfen nicht darüber entscheiden, wer Europa erleben kann. Deshalb müssen die europäischen Schulallianzen von Anfang an so gestaltet werden, dass wirklich alle teilnehmen können. Schulen brauchen Unterstützung, Familien dürfen nicht auf zusätzlichen Kosten sitzen bleiben. Ob Förderschule, regionale Schule, Berufsschule, Gymnasien, Schulen im ländlichen Raum oder in der Stadt.
Alle müssen erreicht werden. Denn Europa darf nicht vom Wohnort oder vom Geldbeutel abhängen. Wer Europa schon jung erlebt, für den bleibt Europa nicht abstrakt. Es bekommt Gesichter, Geschichten und Freundschaften. Danke.
Grazie, onorevole Griset.
Catherine Griset
Merci, Madame la Présidente. En France, l'alliance toxique des extrêmes mélenchonistes et macronistes a mis l'enseignement à terre. Et vous osez aujourd'hui nous parler d'alliance scolaire européenne et d'éducation à la citoyenneté. Favoriser les échanges entre jeunes Européens, leur permettre de découvrir d'autres langues et d'autres cultures, nous sommes pour. Mais avant de vouloir fabriquer une citoyenneté européenne, commençons par assurer la première mission de l'école : instruire nos enfants.
Et pendant ce temps, des lycées sont saccagés, des enseignants et des élèves blessés, des policiers et des pompiers attaqués. Plus grave encore, certains élus de la France insoumise préfèrent attiser les tensions plutôt que de les condamner, poussant les jeunes à s'exposer aux affrontements et à basculer eux-mêmes dans la violence. Alors oui, tu casses, tu paies. Car l'éducation à la citoyenneté commence par des choses simples : respecter son professeur, respecter son école, respecter les autres et respecter la loi. L'Europe peut favoriser les échanges entre nos écoles.
Après des années de réformes, le niveau scolaire français s'effondre.
Elle n'a pas à fabriquer une identité européenne destinée à se substituer à nos identités nationales. Nos priorités sont claires : transmettre, relever le niveau, rétablir l'autorité et garantir la sécurité. Voilà du concret. Je vous remercie.
Grazie. Ha facoltà ora intervenire l'onorevole Magoni. Prego.
Grazie, Presidente. Oggi un giovane europeo vive in un mondo sempre più connesso e, allo stesso tempo, può arrivare a quindici anni senza possedere pienamente le competenze fondamentali per comprenderlo. Uno su tre fatica con la matematica, uno su quattro con la lettura. Questa è la vera sfida da affrontare.
Lara Magoni
Le alleanze delle scuole europee possono essere parte della risposta se servono per uno scopo concreto: far circolare ciò che funziona. Una buona pratica nata in una scuola italiana può aiutare una scuola polacca, un metodo sviluppato in Finlandia può essere utile a un insegnante portoghese. Questo è il valore dell'Europa: condividere esperienze, non imporre modelli. Perché cooperare non significa uniformare. Non abbiamo bisogno di un modello educativo unico o di nuova burocrazia decisa a Bruxelles, ma di scuole capaci di un sostegno concreto agli insegnanti per accompagnare i giovani europei.
Se l'Europa saprà sostenere questo obiettivo, queste alleanze potranno davvero fare la differenza: più cooperazione, non più uniformità, più competenze, non più burocrazia. Grazie, Commissario.
Grazie, ha facoltà ora di intervenire l'onorevole Petrov.
Благодаря, госпожо председател, уважаема госпожо комисар, уважаеми колеги. Как едно дете да усети какво е Европа?
Hristo Petrov
Европейският съюз се усеща, когато едно дете от Пазарджик влезе в класна стая в Испания. Когато ученик от Гоце Делчев работи по общ проект с дете от Франция, Полша или Италия. Когато учител от Видин заедно с неговия колега от някой германски град не просто четат за добри практики, а работят заедно. Всяка държава сама определя учебната си програма, но училищата могат да си партнират на база това, в което са най-добри и успешни. Това е идеята на европейските училищни алианси.
Всички ние, които се занимаваме с този проект, знаем, че той вече работи повече от успешно на ниво университети и беше крайно време да го разширим и към училищата. Аз и моят екип работим по тази тема вече две години, преговаряхме, писахме, спорихме, правихме компромиси, но с някои неща не направихме компромис.
Това няма да бъде програма само за големите градове и големите училища. Тя ще бъде достъпна за селата, пограничните райони, професионалните гимназии, спортните училища и училищата по изкуствата. И няма да има бюрокрация. Аз вярвам, че с European Schools Alliance ние правим една много важна стъпка. Европа ще стане нещо, което много повече деца ще могат да усетят, а не просто да учат за него.
Благодаря.
Grazie, onorevole Ril.
Nela Riehl
Every morning across Europe, us parents drop off our kids at school with the same hope: that they will grow up safe, curious, and ready for the world. But right now, from Rome to Saxony-Anhalt, far-right governments, also aided by the conservatives, are trying to turn our classrooms into battlegrounds. Pushing laws that sort children by their background, they want to teach our kids to look at their neighbors with suspicion. It's a direct attack on our freedom. Schools should be where we learn to coexist, not where we learn to divide.
That's why initiatives like the European School Alliances matter. They bring together students from every background to learn democracy and also respect. As a teacher, I know our duty is to help all kids to thrive, no matter how they look, who they pray to, or where they come from. Let's learn from our children, welcoming anyone onto the playground to build a future where we all belong.
Carolina Morace
In Francia, studenti e insegnanti stanno protestando per chiedere più risorse, classi meno affollate, edifici scolastici dignitosi e personale sufficiente. Non è un caso isolato. Mobilitazioni in difesa della scuola pubblica hanno attraversato anche Italia, Spagna e Belgio. In Germania decine di migliaia di studenti sono scesi in piazza contro la possibile reintroduzione della leva obbligatoria e contro la militarizzazione. Proteste diverse, stesso messaggio: i giovani vogliono essere ascoltati sul futuro che stiamo noi costruendo.
Le scelte di bilancio dicono quale Europa vogliamo. Se per il riarmo avete trovato flessibilità e centinaia di miliardi, nessuno venga a dirci che non ci sono risorse per scuole e giovani. La sicurezza dell'Europa non si costruisce solo con le armi, ma anche con cittadini liberi, consapevoli e capaci di pensiero critico. Le European Schools Alliance possono essere uno strumento importante, ma devono ridurre le disuguaglianze, non replicarle. Le opportunità non devono finire ancora una volta a chi parte avvantaggiato.
Noi ci battiamo per una scuola pubblica forte, capace di dare a ogni giovane le stesse opportunità.
È da qui e non dalle armi che comincia una democrazia più forte. Grazie.
Grazie a lei, onorevole Jongen.
Marc Jongen
Meine Damen und Herren, Frau Kommissarin, Szenen wie aus dem Bürgerkrieg in Frankreich: Vermummte Jugendbanden marodieren unter dem Vorwand von Schülerprotesten auf den Straßen. Das ist die Rechnung für Massenmigration und gescheiterte Integration. Und was macht die Kommission? Sie nutzen auch diese selbst mitverantwortete Krise für noch mehr Zentralisierung, diesmal über Schulallianzen. Aber die EU-Verträge sind klar: Über Bildung entscheiden die Mitgliedstaaten.
Und darum, Frau Riel, sie ist ja nicht mehr hier, wenn Sie mit dem Kult-Ausschuss noch weitergehen und demokratische Resilienz und EU-Werte als Pflichtstoff an europäischen Schulen verordnen wollen, dann widersprechen Sie offen dem Subsidiaritätsprinzip. Wir brauchen sicher keine EU-Propaganda für unsere Demokratie in den Klassenzimmern, das ist gegen die Freiheit gerichtet. Schulen sollen Wissen vermitteln: Lesen, Rechnen, Naturwissenschaften, Technik. Die PISA-Ergebnisse zeigen, woran es fehlt. Dazu das antike und christliche Erbe Europas, darauf zielen unsere Änderungsanträge.
Im Übrigen gibt es Schulpartnerschaften längst über Erasmus+, der geplante Ausbau bedeutet nicht zuletzt neue Bürokratie und neue Kosten. Bildung gehört den Familien und den Nationen, sie soll von Brüsseler Vorgaben frei bleiben. Vielen Dank.
Pina Picierno
Grazie. Ha facoltà per la replica a nome della Commissione la vicepresidente esecutiva Minszat. Prego.
Roxana Mînzatu
Many thanks, dear Chair, honorable members, thank you for your contributions. I have met many teachers and many students, you know, whose life is not easy in the teaching profession, in the material conditions that they were facing every day, for whom the experience of Erasmus, whether it was some mobility, whether it was just cooperation, some co-creation with some partners from across the Union, was the biggest motivation to continue, the biggest motivation to continue to teach, to improve or to learn.
So the schools alliances capitalizes on this immense motivation that Erasmus has already brought in our schools, in our universities, in our vocational schools, but only to some, that is true. And the schools alliances obviously are never meant and could never be a tool of centralization or of harmonization, because what is being taught is a decision of a Member State. But how to share experiences, tools, methods, so that mathematics or reading or science or a citizenship skill in a world of AI, of social media, of disinformation, how to improve these methods can be the result of a very good exchange between European partners. And here I must say, it is obviously not the intention of the Commission that these school alliances are elitist. As I have mentioned, one of the four conditions is that they are inclusive, that they include schools, pupils, teachers from disadvantaged backgrounds, but at the same time, I will not be able to say that schools from big cities will be excluded out of this tool.
Of course, we are building this model of cooperation, and this is towards, as I said, the education package in November.
But do remember the focus that we want to put: to equip our pupils and to help our teachers to focus on the basic skills. This is the basic element of the direction that we see for the schools alliances. Not just mobility, not just partnership, exchange, yet a very nice cooperation project in the European Union, but they will have to choose one basic skill and focus on how to improve it in a world where we need more than ever to equip our young generation with these basic foundations so that they can be relevant in democracies, in the labor market, wherever you may wish, in an age where they compete with technology or they see so much transformation because of technology. So this is the intent of the school alliances, and obviously, I thank you for the contribution. I think also for the young generation here that are listening and watching us, that they will be very interested to see how we deliver with this new tool, and I'm very confident that it will deliver for our pupils and our students all over the European Union.
Thank you.
Grazie, grazie molto alla vicepresidente Mînzatu. Io comunico di aver ricevuto due proposte di risoluzione a conclusione della discussione. La discussione è dunque chiusa e la votazione si svolgerà nella giornata di giovedì. Dunque, il processo verbale ed i testi approvati della seduta di ieri sono disponibili.
Pina Picierno
Non so se ci sono osservazioni. Vi chiedo se qualcuno ha osservazioni. Non ce ne sono, dunque il processo verbale risulta approvato. Andiamo avanti con il nostro ordine del giorno che reca il tempo delle interrogazioni alla Commissione sull'attuazione del regolamento sul metano. Do il benvenuto al commissario Jørgensen per il tempo, appunto, delle interrogazioni.
Sta arrivando. Ok. Il tempo delle interrogazioni verte sul tema attuazione del regolamento sul metano, l'abbiamo già comunicato. La durata prevista è di circa sessanta minuti. I deputati avranno a disposizione un minuto per formulare un'interrogazione e due minuti per la risposta.
Per il primo turno di oratori sarà possibile porre un'interrogazione supplementare di trenta secondi con due minuti per la risposta.
Vi ricordo che l'eventuale interrogazione supplementare è concessa soltanto se strettamente correlata all'interrogazione principale, non consiste in una nuova interrogazione. Chi intende dunque partecipare al dibattito è invitato a registrare sin d'ora la sua richiesta utilizzando la funzione Catch-the-eye sul dispositivo di voto dopo aver inserito ovviamente la tessera. Durante il tempo delle interrogazioni i deputati interverranno dal proprio scranno e invito tutti gli oratori a rispettare il tempo di parola assegnato. Sarò costretta a essere abbastanza rigida perché siamo purtroppo in ritardo. I deputati potrebbero aver bisogno di alcuni minuti per registrare la richiesta e quindi vi chiedo di presentarlo, di farlo al più presto e iniziamo subito con i primi oratori che ne hanno fatto richiesta.
E iniziamo con l'onorevole Ehler.
Madam President, Commissioner Jørgensen, I speak in German. Die Methanverordnung ist wieder mal ein typisches Beispiel der vergangenen Legislatur: gut gemeint, aber mit massiven Auswirkungen auf Wettbewerbsfähigkeits- und Energiesicherheit.
Christian Ehler
Ganz knapp zusammengefasst kann man sagen: Die Voraussetzungen für die gleichwertige Messung und Vermeidung von Methan ist in vielen Ländern, aus denen wir Öl und Gas beziehen, schlicht ab 2027 nicht vorhanden. Stabile Lieferverträge können Unternehmen so nicht rechtssicher aufbauen, weil sie sonst wissentlich gegen die Methanverordnung verstoßen. Wenn wir also über niedrigere Preise sprechen, auch wenn wir die Importe reduzieren wollen, dann wäre unser Vorschlag, obwohl wir Ihren Proposal prinzipiell unterstützen, dass wir das schlicht und einfach über Artikel 122 der EU-Verträge über die Notfallmaßnahmen hinaus nicht einfach nur um ein Jahr verlängern, sondern gleich bis 2030 verlängern, sonst sitzen wir schlicht und einfach nächstes Jahr wieder hier.
Grazie, ha facoltà di intervenire il Commissario Jørgensen.
Thank you, Ehlers, and the others who have raised these questions. I look forward to this debate because the methane regulation and the implementation of it is indeed a very, very timely topic. On one hand, we are extremely proud of our regulation in Europe.
Dan Jørgensen
It makes us frontrunners in the fight against methane emissions. Methane emissions, as you know, are very serious pollutants with regards to climate change, and we are setting the standard globally, not only by reducing our own emissions, but also by affecting others around the planet. On the other hand, it's also clear that many member states have experienced serious challenges implementing the legislation, especially with regards to the parts that has to do with imports, and that of course also then relates to the ability of the different actors out there on the global markets that are exporting their products to us. So we've listened, I have listened to those input, and that is why I have decided to ask my services to look into the possibility of the postponement of the different rules that relate to the import part of this regulation, so as to make sure that member states and the different relevant actors are indeed able to implement.
I would also like to underline that we then do not foresee this to be more than one year. On the contrary, I will say that now the obligation is on member states to make sure that they are ready in one year. Thank you.
Grazie, onorevole Ehler, intende replicare? Stand up, please. Thank you.
Christian Ehler
Commissioner, I mean, that's well-intended, but it's totally unrealistic because you put the burden on the shoulders of member states. But what do you say to Algeria? What do you say to the exporters? It's a matter of investments of a certain dimension, it's a matter of time to install that technically. And we're going to sit here next year.
So to pretend it's the member states to solve that within a year is absolutely unrealistic because we talk about other parts of the world that will take time. And it would be more realistic to say we go till 2030 and we're not going to sit here next year again and pretending it's the problem of the member states.
Dan Jørgensen
I surely agree with you that this is obviously an issue that also has to be dealt with in the different countries that are right now exporting oil and gas products to us in a way that is not yet in line with this legislation. Fortunately, many of the third countries, so outside of EU countries that are to fulfill these criteria, are doing a lot of progress. And until recently, we also thought it was possible for them to fulfill these criteria before 1st of January. I think personally that most of them will still be able to do this. Looking at the gas, for instance, a lot of new contracts has been signed just within the last couple of months, clearly indicating to us that this is indeed possible.
However, we are facing a very hard winter and we need to clear any uncertainties on whether or not this legislation could lead to security of supply issues. We do not think it could, but nonetheless, we don't want any uncertainties in a very difficult situation like this. So this is why I propose one year.
Some will say it is too much and it wasn't necessary at all. Others will say, as you do, Mr. Ehler, that you want longer time, but I do believe that this is the right compromise. We also need to make sure that there's a level playing field. And if we postpone this until 2030, not only would we not get the effects that we want with regards to fighting climate change and stopping the emissions of methane, it would also not be fair to the companies that have actually done a lot of work, made a lot of investments to be able to live up to this legislation from the 1st of January already.
César Luena
Gracias, presidenta. Mire, comisario, la actual crisis energética no la ha provocado el reglamento sobre el metano, sino que dependemos de los combustibles fósiles importados. Por tanto, retrasar el reglamento no va a reducir los precios ni va a generar nuevos suministros. Una vez más, la respuesta es acelerar con las energías renovables y reducir esta dependencia. Es decir, el Pacto Verde Europeo.
La Comisión, lo ha dicho usted, ha ofrecido flexibilidad sobre las sanciones.
El propio reglamento permite justificar los casos en los que los importadores no consigan obtener toda la información. La Comisión, por cierto, tampoco ha demostrado que las obligaciones que pretende aplazar vayan a provocar una falta de suministro. Por tanto, ¿por qué no utiliza las salvaguardias que ya usted tiene en la mano y resuelve los problemas técnicos pendientes y mantiene la presión para reducir las fugas en lugar de reabrir una legislación que se aprobó hace tan solo dos años?
Dan Jørgensen
I'm very much afraid that it is not the methane regulation that has led to the crisis that we're in right now. The crisis that we're in right now is often referred to as an energy crisis, but in fact it would be more precise to say it's a fossil energy crisis. And it's also clear that the combination of several things, first our decision to get rid of our dependency of Russia, which is one that I hope we all agree was a very wise decision, nonetheless one that put us under pressure, followed by the crisis in the Middle East and the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, has led us to the situation that we're in now.
We are no longer dependent of Russia, we're getting out of that dependency fast and soon we will not be importing any energy from them at all. But we are still importing for, in a normal year, more than 350 billion euros worth of fossils. So when the world market price goes up, of course this problem increases and right now unfortunately we're in a situation where we since the start of the year has paid more than 100 billion more for our energy than we normally do without getting extra energy, not one single molecule. So this is the situation that we stand in, the prices of energy, the cost of living has increased for our citizens, it's hurting our competitiveness, there's a lot of uncertainty and then add to that member states, companies coming to the Commission saying really we need to do something.
And that is the combination of these factors that has led to me now telling my services to look into the possibility of a one-year postponement, but of course not moving away from the overall target and ambition.
Grazie. Desidera un follow-up?
César Luena
El problema, comisario, es que si usted trae aquí una reforma para retrasarlo un año, la derecha y la extrema derecha van a querer más porque son insaciables y al final conseguirán tres años, que es lo que no nos podemos permitir. Hay que reducir la dependencia del exterior y aplicar el Pacto Verde Europeo, es decir, más energías renovables. Piénselo, piénselo en el Colegio. No traigan este aplazamiento, que llevamos dos años y medio de legislatura, que sabemos lo que pasa, que son insaciables, que se quieren cargar todo el Pacto Verde Europeo. No cometa ese error.
Dan Jørgensen
I have of course shared objective that we must safeguard the Green Deal. This is something that the Commission is doing every day. We've also put forward, as you know, many other new proposals within the last year that will help make the Green Deal a reality and even move beyond the grid package, the electrification plan and so forth.
At the same time, we need to be flexible when we are dealing with a transformation of our societies that is as wide-reaching, with as big consequences as the one we are in right now. So when a big majority of Member States in the European Union, many political families in this chamber, many companies and relevant industry stakeholders come to me and say that they have real worries that this can be a problem for them and therefore a problem for all of us going into a winter that will be a very tough one. The prices are high now, but I think unfortunately it's almost certain that the prices will be even higher during the winter, then of course I have to listen. We have 47 million people approximately in a normal winter, in average, that are not able to adequately heat their homes. Almost 50 million people.
This winter, unfortunately, I fear it's very, very likely that that number will be higher. So to go into a winter like this with uncertainties, I do not find responsible.
And this is why we've put forward this proposal, which I think strikes a very clear balance. There are some in this chamber that do not want me to touch it at all. There are others that think I should postpone till 2030. What I'm proposing is postponement of one year.
András Gyürk
Köszönöm a szót, elnök asszony. Tisztelt biztos úr! Európa energiaellátása már most is bizonytalan. Ezt jól jelzik az energiaárak. A metánkibocsátási rendelet 2024-es hatálybalépése óta a kőolaj ára 35, a földgázé 104 százalékkal nőtt.
Iparági értékelések szerint az EU-ba importált kőolaj és földgáz túlnyomó része nem felelne meg a rendelet előírásainak. Ezért a teljes körű alkalmazás január elsejétől újabb jelentős áremelkedéshez vezetne. Mi patrióták minden platformon jeleztük ezt a Bizottságnak. Ön biztos úr, ennek ellenére még idén júniusban is úgy nyilatkozott, hogy nagyon büszke a metánkibocsátási rendeletre és nem hajlandó azt elhalasztani. Kérdésem tehát, hogy elismeri-e a Bizottság eddigi álláspontjának tarthatatlanságát a metánrendelet ügyében.
Emellett ebből az esetből tanulva tud-e garanciát vállalni arra, hogy az uniós jogszabályok a jövőben nem fogják aláásni az energiaellátás biztonságát és nem vezetnek magasabb energiaárakhoz.
Köszönöm a szót.
Dan Jørgensen
Well, if we look at what leads to high energy prices in the Union, it's very clear that this is the import of fossil fuels from other parts of the world. This is very, very clear. We've paid more than a hundred billion more for our energy sources since February than what we normally do, without getting any more energy. So the strategy needs to be something that is contrary to what the political family of the gentleman that just posed the question believes in, and that is of course a green transition. A transition away from fossils into clean energy.
So more renewables as fast as possible, more energy efficiency as fast as possible, stable nuclear supply and in some countries also more nuclear, although that has a little bit longer timeframe. But in no scenario is an increase in import of fossil a part of a solution to get cheaper energy.
On the contrary. Thank you.
Grazie, onorevole, desidera un follow-up, vuole replicare? Prego.
András Gyürk
Köszönöm a választ. A kiegészítő kérdésem a halasztás időtartamára vonatkozna. Számos tagállam, több energiapartner ország és az iparági szereplők is jelzik, hogy egy év alatt a rendelet által okozott ellátásbiztonsági kockázatok nagyrészt nem orvosolhatóak. Ezért azt kérdezném biztos úrtól, hogy mely érintettekkel egyeztetett az egyéves halasztásról? Készül-e a döntést alátámasztó, nyilvánosan is elérhető hatásvizsgálat, és amennyiben nem készül ilyen, nyitott lenne-e a Bizottság egy többéves halasztásra?
Köszönöm a válaszát.
Grazie, Commissario, prego.
Dan Jørgensen
So, I have consulted primarily our Member States, but have of course been receiving input from a multitude of different actors on the market, both foreign and European. So, it is very important for me to say that this postponement of one year rests also on a very clear demand from the Commission's side that we step up on implementation and that that year is used fruitfully so that in a year we will not stand in the same situation again, because this is a one-time-only postponement of one year that I propose. Now, obviously, this is also a question for co-legislation, and it has to be discussed both in this House and in the Council, so it's not only up to me and the Commission. But our recommendation is quite clear.
We have proposed a postponement, but we do have at the same time to underline that this legislation is one that supports our transition in Europe and therefore it should be implemented as fast as possible to create level playing field, to reduce emissions and thereby fight climate change, but also for economic reasons. Methane that is let into the atmosphere is methane that could have been utilized, methane that could have actually been a part of our energy system instead of part of our climate problem. So it is in the interests of everybody to do this as fast as possible. And if we look at the most efficient producer countries around the world, you will also see that the ones that are indeed in that category are also the ones that manage to deal with this challenge. Some of them even did it before there was legislation that forced them to it, why?
Because of responsibility to our climate, yes, but certainly also because it's just pure economic common sense to do so.
Grazie e ora diamo la parola al prossimo oratore, l'onorevole Smith.
Smith
Grazie Presidente, Voorzitter, Commissaris. Het is hetzelfde patroon: de Commissie heeft torenhoge ambities voor ons bedrijfsleven.
Met veel bombarie worden dikke pakken regels als vooruitgang gebracht. De Commissie is vervolgens zelf niet voorbereid op haar eigen regels. Falende ICT bij de ontbossingsverordening, dreigende boetes, de onuitvoerbare verpakkingsregels. En nu opnieuw: importeurs van gas die niet weten hoe zij moeten voldoen omdat certificering niet rond is. De stappen daarna volgen een vast stramien.
Eerst ontkenning, dan een hetze tegen de industrie, dan halfzachte toezeggingen dat er niet gehandhaafd zal worden. Op 1 januari gaan de methaanregels in en pas vorige week liet de Commissie onderzoeken of uitstel mogelijk is. Ditmaal worden niet alleen ondernemers getroffen door rechtsonzekerheid, maar staat de leveringszekerheid van olie en gas aan ons continent op het spel. Op dit moment, commissaris en ook de hele Europese Commissie, waar is uw verantwoordelijkheidsbesef? Is dit überhaupt binnen één jaar opgelost door een jaar uitstel?
Graag harde toezeggingen, anders staan we hier volgend jaar opnieuw. Dank u wel.
Dan Jørgensen
So yes, if you are against this legislation and if you don't believe that it is necessary for economic or climate reasons, or because you think it's important to have a level playing field, then of course I will not be able to persuade you. But if you do believe, which the data clearly supports, that it makes economic sense to not emit methane that is a valuable resource, it makes sense because we need to fight climate change and methane is a much worse pollutant than CO2, for instance, and we need a level playing field because there's actually a lot of companies out there that have invested heavily in being able to implement this. All of these things combined makes it pretty clear that yes, we do need to do this, we need to do it fast. Now, I would have preferred it to happen 1st of January, but because of all of the challenges that I alluded to earlier, we've decided to listen to those who've come to us and asked us, would it not be a good idea to postpone, and we've said one year. So some wanted to 2030, some wanted three year, we've said one year should be enough.
Grazie, vuole replicare? Prego.
Smith
Commissaris, dank voor uw antwoord, maar u maakt een karikatuur van wat ik zojuist heb gezegd.
Het gaat hier om de werkbaarheid van de regels, niet over de kern of over de reductie van methaanuitstoot. Dat stel ik helemaal niet in vraag. Maar is het niet een voorbeeld van een doorgeschoten Green Deal dit, die niet werkbaar is? En u stelt zich zeer onflexibel op door ook nog hier te zeggen dat u er eigenlijk niet voor was, terwijl de situatie, de realiteit dwingt ons nu tot uitstel, dwingt u tot herbezinning. Geef dat dan toe en maak de wetgeving werkbaar.
En dan moet u niet zeggen dat ik tegen de wetgeving ben als zodanig. Ik pleit alleen voor werkbare wetgeving die de leveringszekerheid van gas en olie aan ons continent, toch niet onbelangrijk denk ik in deze geopolitieke tijden, niet op het spel zet. En ik denk dat het van belang is dat u als Commissie en als commissaris ook het belang daarvan ziet. Het Parlement hier doet die oproep, de leiders in de Europese Unie hebben dat gedaan, het komt toch niet voor niets.
Pina Picierno
Next speaker, onorevole... Ah, chiedo scusa, il commissario, la replica del commissario, chiedo scusa.
Dan Jørgensen
So I actually apologize if I misrepresented your views. I read you as if you were against the legislation.
If you're not, then I apologize. But I can say that where we definitely disagree is that it's not a good idea to set different rules for companies outside of Europe from what the rules of the companies inside of Europe are. And this is about creating a level playing field. If we all agree we need to reduce our methane emissions inside of Europe, which our companies are doing right now and which they will continue to do, and where we although we have seen of course challenges with implementation, it will happen. If we then say to the rest of the world, you don't have to fulfill these rules, you can just keep keep going, that would of course be very damaging to our own industries.
Now, does this mean that we will not help our partners around the world? Of course not. We are always very practical in our technical collaboration. And there's also a review clause in this legislation so that if at a later stage we see that there are technical issues that should be resolved, then of course we are willing to look at them.
Grazie. E ora appunto passiamo al prossimo oratore. Ha chiesto di parlare l'onorevole Balzs. Prego. Sì.
Jeannette Baljeu
Dank aan de commissaris en fijn dat u aan een uitstel werkt. Ik denk dat het belangrijk is dat dat ook inderdaad met de sector wordt besproken hoeveel tijd er nodig is om tot serieuze nieuwe wetgeving te komen. We zien dat er natuurlijk een probleem is met de import, met de informatievoorziening die gegeven kan worden. Dus dat zijn punten om echt wel goed door te kijken, maar ook om te kijken hoe dat zich verhoudt zowel binnen onze interne Europese gasproductie, dat ook dat level playing field blijft. Ook daar zijn de omstandigheden natuurlijk veranderd.
Investeringen zijn veel duurder geworden. Dus het is een zoektocht naar betere regelgeving, want daar staan we achter, maar ook duidelijkheid voor de sector. En ik zou graag van u horen dat u ook in overleg met de sector het tijdspad bepaalt waarbij één jaar prima is, maar ook flexibiliteit als het dan nog niet rond is, want het gaat erom dat zowel van de importkant als de productiekant binnen Europa er duidelijkheid komt. Dank u.
Dan Jørgensen
Yes, we are in close contact both with the industry and with member states. As always, or as in most cases, there's a big divergence. Some find it easier to implement, others not so easy. What I will say is the bottom line is that I doubt very much you'll find many European producers that do not see this as the future for them. I doubt very much there will be any that thinks that not being mindful of methane emissions is a route that they want to go down.
It's not what I hear you saying either, but just to underline that this is indeed not something that we do only to fight climate change. It certainly is also to fight climate change, but it is also because it makes sense to be as rational in your production as possible. And it simply is not rational to emit or flare methane, expensive, valuable molecules in a time with scarcity of energy.
Grazie, prego.
Voorzitter, helemaal eens met de commissaris dat we dit pad op willen. Maar de zoektocht is wel hoe we ook in tijden dat er echt andere tijden zijn ten aanzien van kosten voor de laatste investeringen, hoe we daar ook het level playing field kunnen houden, maar vooral dat er ook gelijke verplichtingen zijn zowel voor datgene wat we importeren als datgene wat geproduceerd wordt.
Dan Jørgensen
Yes, that's very clear. We need a level playing field, and this goes of course both for companies internally in the EU, but also for companies in the EU vis-à-vis companies around the planet. It's important to realize of course that since our decision to get out of the dependency of Russian gas, we've had to rely on partners around the world to help us, which they have done, and we have diversified our suppliers. This is a good thing.
Of course, it also gives us some challenges because some countries and partners will find it easier to implement our legislation than others. So my services spend a lot of time and resources in technical dialogues in helping as much as possible the Member States internally, but certainly also companies and other actors abroad.
Grazie, ha facoltà ora di intervenire l'onorevole Paulus.
Jutta Paulus
Grazie. Dear Chair, dear colleagues, dear Commissioner, February 26th, Greece sealed the LNG contract with Aktor and DEPA Commercial. March 26th, SEFE sealed the contract with ADNOC. June 26th, EnBW sealed the contract with Venture Global. July, Uniper sealed the contract with CGI Canada.
These are just a few examples that anyone can find within minutes on the internet. So much for the narrative of IOGP that no one is signing any contract due to the terrible methane regulation.
So I am truly puzzled why Member States and now also the Commission prefer to listen to fossil fuel companies instead of basing their decisions on facts and figures, like the Rystad study showing that there is enough compliant gas on the global market to fulfill EU demand, like the IEA's assessment that 70% of the emissions can be mitigated with existing technology and 50% at no net cost. So please, honorable Commissioner, can you enlighten us on which factual base are you now proposing a delay? Thank you.
Thanks, Commissioner.
Dan Jørgensen
So I can confirm the fact that indeed in the last couple of months contracts have been signed. So those who try to paint a picture that we will run into security of supply issues if we don't do this, to them we can say that's highly unlikely, especially on gas. Nonetheless, we also acknowledge that we do live in very uncertain times. This legislation of course is not only dealing with gas production, it also very much has to do with oil production. And here the situation is a little bit different and there's more pressure.
Although I will say also on oil, the estimation of my services is that we will not face security of supply issues there either. But a crisis of prices, even though it is not as bad as a crisis of security of supply, is also a serious crisis. And I feel that I'm obliged to and we are obliged to in the Commission to listen to when a big majority of Member States in the Council asks us to take this very serious. Now I am aware and I do respect that some think we should not touch this at all, and others think we should totally abolish the legislation or at least postpone it for a long time. And this is why I think that it is a moderate and balanced response that I am proposing now.
Grazie, desidera un follow-up?
Jutta Paulus
Yes, thank you very much. Actually, the compliance costs add up to the devastating amount of 0.6% of production costs, but they would obviously bring much, much more gas to the market, gas which is today wasted, flared, leaked, vented.
So if our main oil and gas producers would not be left off the hook, but would follow existing legislation, more than 40 BCM of gas could be recovered, which is half of EU's LNG imports from the US. And actually, for me, it's not exactly clear why is wasting gas leading to more supply and lower prices? Since the US war on Iran started, the EU has added more than 50 billion to fossil fuel imports. So why do you think that loosening regulation will help there?
Dan Jørgensen
Well, well, actually, it's even worse than 50 billion. It's actually the double now. It's actually 100 billion. So that just underlines a very important point that the honorable member makes, which is that really we do need to move away from our dependency on gas overall. My job and our job, I hope, in common, is to make sure that it happens in a way that is also as sustainable as possible for our economy and for our citizens in a broader sense.
So every winter, unfortunately, not all Europeans are able to adequately heat their homes. Usually, it's 47 million people that are not able to do this in average.
I think this will be more this year. So any uncertainty on whether or not legislation that we are implementing will lead to higher prices is of course not good in this situation. So this is why I've had to find a balance where on one hand we stick to our economic and climate targets because I agree that it is of also economic rationality for companies to implement and member states to implement this on one hand and on the other hand try and alleviate any uncertainty.
Grazie, il prossimo speaker è l'onorevole Gunter.
Martin Günther
Ja, Herr Kommissar, Sie rechtfertigen die Verzögerung der Anwendung der Methanverordnung auf Importe mit Gründen der Energiesicherheit. Doch in Ihrer eigenen Empfehlung von Juni heißt es, dass durch die Bekämpfung von undichten Systemen, Entlüftung und Abfackeln bis zu 200 Milliarden Kubikmeter Gas freigesetzt werden.
Die Internationale Energieagentur schätzt ebenfalls, dass weltweit rund 200 Milliarden Kubikmeter durch die Bekämpfung von undichten Systemen etc. verfügbar gemacht werden könnten, während mehr als 35 Millionen Tonnen Methan aus fossilen Brennstoffen ohne Nettokosten vermieden werden könnten. Das ist Energieverschwendung, während die Europäerinnen mit immer höheren Energiekosten zu kämpfen haben. Warum sollten Haushalte, insbesondere einkommensschwache und energiearme Haushalte, die Kosten für knappes Gas tragen, während es Unternehmen der fossilen Brennstoffindustrie gestattet ist, dieses durch undichte Systeme zu verschwenden? Warum sollten Methanvorschriften nicht durchgesetzt werden, um Verschwendung zu reduzieren, das verfügbare Angebot zu erhöhen und den Druck auf die Energiepreise zu mindern?
Dan Jørgensen
The whole idea of this legislation is obviously to, yes, reduce emissions of a polluting greenhouse gas, but also to make sure that the economies are improved. Because it is in a situation with scarcity of energy and with too high prices, of course, not sustainable that methane is flared or emitted when it could be used as energy. This is also why we have the provisions that we have. This is why the legislation is in place. This is why we're insisting to have it implemented as fast as possible.
But this argument is, of course, only true where it is implemented and where it has been possible to implement it. Now, would I have preferred not to propose a one-year postponement? Of course. But on the other hand, I also have to listen when a clear majority of Member States and many others tell me that simply it is not possible to do it within this timeframe. So instead of loosening the rules and moving away from our objective, my position is that we need to be as ambitious as we've been all the time, but give one year on the import part of the legislation longer to implement.
Grazie. Desidera un follow-up?
Martin Günther
Ja, Sie sprechen es an, die Durchsetzung liegt in erster Linie in der Verantwortung der Mitgliedstaaten. Aber was wird die Kommission tun, wenn die Mitgliedstaaten dieser Verantwortung nicht nachkommen, was meines Erachtens auch Teil des Problems ist? Werden Sie die Durchsetzungsbefugnisse der Kommission nutzen, um sicherzustellen, dass die Methanverordnung in der Praxis tatsächlich angewandt wird, anstatt sich lediglich auf nationale Behörden bei der Umsetzung zu verlassen? Weil noch mal, also die Analyse des Environmental Defense Fund von Juni ergab keine Hinweise darauf, dass die Methanverordnung in irgendeiner Weise aktuell die Gaspreise steigert. Wir müssen sie umsetzen.
Dan Jørgensen
Yeah, I'm not sure that there was any new questions in that input, but I can repeat what I said before. We're not moving away from the targets or the objectives. The methane regulation is good because we need to fight climate change, but it's also good from an economic perspective, from a competitiveness perspective, and we need to make sure that we have a level playing field.
But we are in a situation where we're moving, unfortunately, towards some very tough months with very high prices, and our citizens are struggling to pay their bills, and our companies are under pressure. And therefore, to alleviate any uncertainty, we've said, okay, we can live with a one-year postponement, not of the whole regulation, but of the import provisions. And let's see. I've instructed my services in helping put forward a proposal on how we can do that exactly, but then it's up to co-legislators also to make the final decision.
Grazie, e andiamo avanti con gli altri colleghi che hanno fatto richiesta di intervento, onorevole Tsiordas. Spero di averlo detto decentemente.
Dimitris Tsiodras
Thanks, dear Commissioner. Reducing methane emissions is essential, but delivering the regulation's objectives requires a realistic timetable that safeguards energy security and affordability. A one-year postponement risks shifting the deadline without resolving the underlying problems.
Is there a real assessment that the framework will be in place in a year, since the architecture is far from being completed?
Dan Jørgensen
We are in a situation now where we are of course in a very close dialogue with both member states, companies, other actors that are implementing, both the ones that have difficulties, but obviously also the ones that have already done it. Because this is not only about listening to those who complain, it's also about listening to those who are actually doing their homework in order for us to be able to evaluate what is indeed realistic and what is not. It's also clear, as I said earlier, that this is something that is not as easy, and that is of course something that you need to take with a grain of salt because nothing is easy, but as easy as it is internally because here we have our tools, whereas when it has to do with third countries, it's always more complicated.
But we are in close contact with these countries and on a technical level, we are dealing with authorities in these countries to make this feasible.
Bene, andiamo avanti, onorevole Nica. No, it's not possible, just the first round is possible to reply.
Dan Nica
Domnule comisar Jørgensen, 500 de euro. 500 de euro ar costa fiecare familie de români dacă acest regulament s-ar aplica de la 1 ianuarie 2027. Și acest lucru pentru că în România sunt 55.000 de puțuri care ar trebui să fie măsurate, să fie monitorizate, aproape jumătate din totalul puțurilor existente în Uniunea Europeană. În 1857 a fost primul puț în funcțiune. Vă dați seama cum este, cum sună pentru români că la 170 de ani de când a fost forat primul puț, ei trebuie să plătească acum aceste sume?
Din acest motiv, eu salut faptul că dumneavoastră ați anunțat că veți amâna acest această propunere de regulament și în același timp mă aștept ca să cereți DG ENER ca să vină și să pună în aplicare ceea ce prevede directiva. Care sunt procedurile? Care este modalitatea în care sunt selectați evaluatorul independenți și mai ales să veniți cu o chestiune care să aibă sens. Nu puteți pune România cu 55.000 de puțuri de petrol și gaze pe aceeași poziție cu o țară care un membru stat care are 1.000. Sumele sunt diferite.
Intervalul de timp este total diferit.
Plus că după 170 de ani nici nu mai se știe exact unde au fost acele puțuri, dacă ele mai există sau nu. Vă mulțumesc.
Commissioner, please.
Dan Jørgensen
Mr. Nica, I'm very well aware that the situation in Romania is complicated and partly because of your expertise and your input to me and my services, we are looking into this, of course, and also working closely with the authorities and the government of Romania to find solutions. It's clear that the production facilities in member states are very different and therefore it's more complicated in some member states to implement than in others. Of course, we need to find a level playing field, we need to live up to the same rules, but we will do whatever we can to help make sure that this can happen.
Grazie, onorevole del Castillo Vera.
Pilar del Castillo Vera
Gracias, presidenta, comisario. En el mes de abril firmé un documento, una pregunta a la Comisión con otros colegas de este Parlamento en el que ya advertimos de las dificultades que planeaba la aplicación del reglamento y pedíamos medidas para garantizar su implementación. Yo valoro que se esté valorando.
Sin embargo, el aplazamiento de un año no es en absoluto suficiente. ¿Por qué? Porque a día de hoy siguen faltando elementos esenciales que permitan garantizar el cumplimiento del reglamento, incluidos estándares, mecanismos de verificación y acreditación y criterios claros de equivalencia con terceros países. Por ello, es indispensable que cualquier aplazamiento esté vinculado a que esos instrumentos estén plenamente operativos y, a partir de ahí, establecer un plazo suficientemente amplio para su implementación, porque si no, la inseguridad jurídica y las incertidumbres harán muy difícil que se pueda desarrollar. Muchas gracias.
Dan Jørgensen
So, let me underline that what what I'm proposing is not a reopening of of the legislation. I stand by what I think is a is a very good regulation. It will not only in the long term, but actually also in the short term be beneficial for us, for our companies, for our fight against climate change, for our transition.
So we're doing this to listen to some real concerns and we're doing this temporary. So this is why I would also warn against introducing different kinds of other demands and trying to use this to repeat some of the political struggles that has been fought before. The legislation stands as it is. We're not changing the legislation. What we're doing is we're postponing the implementation of the import provision part of the legislation.
Grazie, onorevole Pellarin Carlan.
Thomas Pellerin-Carlin
Monsieur le Commissaire, nous venons de vivre un été extrêmement chaud. La majorité de l'Europe a subi un stress thermique très élevé et lors des seules vagues de chaleur du mois de juin, c'est plus de 10 000 Européens qui sont morts de ces chaleurs extrêmes. À quoi cela est dû ? Cela est dû évidemment au dérèglement climatique et ce dérèglement climatique est alimenté par des émissions de méthane. Le méthane est responsable à lui seul d'environ un tiers du dérèglement climatique que nous subissons.
Ce règlement européen sur le méthane est donc un texte majeur de protection de la vie et de la santé de nos citoyens.
Son importance est essentielle. Réduire rapidement les émissions de méthane du secteur de l'énergie est l'un des moyens les plus efficaces de freiner le dérèglement climatique et donc pour protéger la santé et la vie des Européens, cet été 2027 qui arrive comme ceux qui arrivent ensuite. Dans ce contexte, le revirement d'Emmanuel Macron sur ce règlement m'inquiète profondément car il défend non pas l'intérêt des Français mais les intérêts de Patrick Pouyanné, PDG de Total. Ma question est donc simple : pouvez-vous, Monsieur le Commissaire, vous engager au nom de la Commission à défendre pleinement les objectifs fondamentaux de ce règlement pour que la santé des citoyens soit plus importante que le lobby des pétroliers et des gaziers ?
So, unfortunately, I didn't get the first part of the question because of something with the translation, but I got the last part and this is where the actual question was, I think. So, I'll try and answer. I can definitely say that this proposal that I put forward here is not to be seen as any backtracking with regards to ambition. On the contrary, we stand very firm. This is an important legislation.
Dan Jørgensen
We would not be doing anybody any favors, by the way, if we did abolish it, because it is not economically sustainable to flare or emit methane that is a valuable resource. This is also why we see countries like Norway, or the one that I know best, Denmark, or even a country like Saudi Arabia, having started to deal with this issue and reducing the emissions of methane, not only because it is a good idea for climate change, but also because it is economically a sensible thing to do. And I will stand by that. And I do think that we've also shown in the, in the previous months and years, in the dialogue that we've had with the different Member States and also other countries outside of the EU, that yes, there are of course challenges implementing something as complex as this, but it can be done and we are doing it. So this is also why I'm very firm when saying that we do not move away from our ambitions and our objectives, but we are giving a little bit longer time on some of the provisions.
That is then also a very clear signal that after this year, you need to have spent that time making sure that you can then fulfill the rules because we're not looking at doing this for two years or three years or five years, we're looking to do this for one year.
Grazie, onorevole Moratti.
Letizia Moratti
Commissario, colleghi, l'inverno si avvicina e l'Europa non è pronta. A febbraio 2027 rischiamo di aver già esaurito le nostre riserve di gas. Alla crisi mediorientale e all'instabilità geopolitica si aggiungono, si aggiunge un ostacolo regolatorio, il regolamento metano. I nuovi requisiti per gli importatori rischiano di aggravare la crisi. Si tratta del 17% delle nostre disponibilità di carburanti.
Questo significa meno capacità industriale, meno occupazione e carburanti più cari. Le stime sono pesanti: più 16% sul diesel, più 24 sulla benzina e un raddoppio del prezzo del gas. Alla luce di questo, il regolamento metano deve essere sospeso fino al 2030 perché serve certezza per gli approvvigionamenti, serve flessibilità e serve il tempo necessario per adeguare le importazioni agli standard europei.
L'Italia e gli Stati membri stanno facendo tutto il possibile per proteggere famiglie e imprese, ma ora anche l'Europa deve fare la propria parte perché le priorità oggi sono la sicurezza energetica e l'abbassamento dei costi energetici.
Dan Jørgensen
So many of you are asking the same questions, so therefore obviously the answer will also be quite similar. Maybe I can add a few points. One is that this is not a standalone legislation. This is a part of an overall strategy to move away from fossils. It's something that we've chosen to do a long time ago to fight climate change, but it's also something that we are doing increasingly because of security and because of competitiveness.
Security, I think all of us saw in February '22 when Russia started their full-scale invasion of Ukraine just how bad it is for us to be in the pockets of an enemy, which we were, let's be honest.
But we managed to move away from that and now soon we will have no longer any import at all from Russia. But we are still importing way too much energy, fossil energy, from around the planet. And it makes us vulnerable because it means that when there's a conflict in the Middle East as now, even though we are not even importing that large amounts of energy ourselves from the Middle East going through the Strait of Hormuz, because it affects the world market, we are then also indirectly affected, or rather it's an indirect effect but it's felt very directly by our citizens and by our companies. So this is why if you want lower prices, which I'm sure we all do, the strategy can never be to just abolish legislation that will bring down the demand, abolish legislation that will make the production more efficient, abolish legislation that will force to some extent our consumers into more sustainable alternatives. It needs to be the opposite.
It needs to be looking for solutions that will support this transition.
Barbara Bonte
Grazie, onorevole Bonte.
Thank you, Chair. Commissaris, de EU kampt met torenhoge energieprijzen.
Europese bedrijven betalen voor aardgas maar liefst vier tot vijf keer zo veel dan hun Amerikaanse concurrenten. Onze energiebevoorrading blijft kwetsbaar en we zijn sterk afhankelijk van ingevoerd gas en LNG. En als de methaanverordening vanaf 2027 werkelijkheid wordt, zal dit natuurlijk nieuwe verplichtingen opleggen. En dit kan natuurlijk leveranciers ontmoedigen om nog aan EU-landen te leveren. De gasprijzen dreigen hierdoor nog veel meer te stijgen met alle gevolgen van dien voor onze bedrijven, onze industrie en onze gezinnen.
Mijn vraag is daarom heel concreet. Kan de Commissie vandaag definitief garanderen dat de nieuwe importverplichtingen met een jaar worden uitgesteld en is zij bereid om verder te gaan en deze regels te herbekijken of eventueel te schrappen wanneer deze onze bevoorradingszekerheid bedreigen of onze energieprijzen verder verhogen?
Europa heeft nood aan meer betaalbare energie en niet aan regels die onze energie nog duurder en schaarser dreigen te maken.
Dan Jørgensen
Well, I totally agree that we need affordable energy. But I don't think that the way to have affordable energy and energy security in the future is to scrap one of our most efficient legislations. This crisis that we're in now is a crisis that will come to an end, of course. But make no mistakes, we were also in a crisis in '22 and we can most certainly, probably will, face crises in the future. Our job, in my mind, needs to be to find a way, a strategy, to become independent of the world markets, become independent of geopolitical turbulent times.
So that when shocks hit the world economy, like it happened when the Strait of Hormuz was closed, it should not be able to make and have direct implications for the bills of our citizens and our companies. And the only way to do that is get out of our dependency. So that means reducing consumption. That means doing things more rationally. That means not wasting energy, not wasting molecules by flaring them or emitting them to the atmosphere.
Grazie, e ora ha facoltà di intervenire l'onorevole Donazzan.
Elena Donazzan
Grazie Presidente. Commissario, lei si è stupito che in molti abbiamo chiesto la stessa cosa. Sì, il gruppo dei conservatori ha chiesto questo dibattito, così come l'hanno fatto i popolari e così come l'hanno fatto i patrioti. È stato difficile venire qui a parlare di questo, eppure il gas è dappertutto nelle nostre case, è nelle nostre fabbriche, è nelle nostre auto. Ho chiesto a un amico che ha una Golf, l'auto europea per definizione che il Green Deal sta distruggendo, quanto costa andare con una Golf a metano.
Ebbene, è più conveniente della stessa elettrica o della stessa diesel. Ma lei qui oggi ci ha intimato una cosa che io ho trovato particolarmente grave. Ci ha detto: vi avviso, non riapriamo questa discussione. Guardi, signor Commissario, la avvisiamo noi. Questo è un Parlamento sovrano, ventidue Stati membri su ventisette le hanno chiesto di rivedere questa cosa, questo regolamento, ben settanta organizzazioni hanno detto che non è possibile andare avanti così e io credo che questa sia l'unica cosa a cui lei debba rispondere.
So I didn't say that I was surprised that many people asked the same question.
Dan Jørgensen
I said that you should not be surprised that when you ask the same question, you will also get the same answer. Otherwise, that would actually be a bit strange. I, I do acknowledge that there are differences of opinion in this room. I also know that there are differences of opinion in Council. There will even be differences of opinion in the partner countries that we deal with because some are actually already in a place where they have implemented more or less the legislation and others haven't.
So this is not a one-size-fits-all solution and this is not going to be easy no matter where we land. With the responsibility that I have, I find myself in a situation where on one hand I think it's extremely important that we do indeed implement this legislation. Because it's important to fight climate change, to, to make sure that we have a level playing field for economic reasons, all of the reasons that I've, that I've spoken about today. But on the other hand, I also have to be mindful that we do have members of this house, yourself included, Member States, companies that are worried. That say that if we don't postpone the import provisions of this legislation, then indeed it can lead to some, even say security of supply issues.
I'm not sure the analysis from my services would agree to that, but certainly to higher prices. I think it's my responsibility going into a winter like the one we are approaching now that will be difficult, with very high prices, with companies under pressure, with citizens under pressure, to remove as many uncertainties as we can, whilst at the same time not undermining our long-term strategy, which of course is to become independent of fossil fuels, to fight climate change, to be as competitive as possible to lower prices on energy. Thank you.
Marta Wcisło
Grazie, onorevole Wisło.
Panie komisarzu, w Polsce wschodniej 40 kilometrów od granicy z Ukrainą na Lubelszczyźnie jest kopalnia węgla kamiennego Bogdanka, jedyna niedotowana przez państwo kopalnia, kopalnia, która może być wzorem transformacji i powinna być za to premiowana. Na podstawie rozporządzenia metanowego od 2031 roku ograniczenie emisji wyniesie 3 tony na 1000 ton wydobycia węgla. Bogdanka już dziś osiąga 0,72 tony. Zwiększa swoją efektywność dzięki ogromnemu wysiłkowi pracowników i nakładów finansowych.
Jej węgiel trafia również na Ukrainę. Jednocześnie pracownicy potrzebują środków na bezpieczeństwo, inwestycje i transformację. Panie komisarzu, transformacja absolutnie tak, ale nie kosztem innych bardzo ważnych rzeczy. Artykuł 20 wymaga ciągłego bezpośredniego pomiaru z bardzo wysoką dokładnością, co jest zrozumiałe. Ale podczas gdy te pomiary dotyczą szybów wentylacyjnych, dokładność poniżej 5% może być technicznie niewykonalna, ponieważ nadal brakuje dostatecznie precyzyjnych metod technicznych, czyli metodyki technicznej.
Moje pytanie brzmi: co z tym zrobi Komisja, czy zapewni proporcjonalność kosztów i czy będzie premiować takie podmioty, takie kopalnie jak Bogdanka?
So, I think the honorable member is speaking about primarily some of the domestic rules, the EU rules, where what we propose now is to postpone the implementation of the import provisions of the legislation, just to make that clear.
But we are of course aware that many Member States still have problems with implementation and we're working with them individually. My services has had this dialogue on a technical level for a long time and we will continue to have so, just as I've been discussing it with the relevant ministers and will continue to do so. Thank you.
Bene, grazie, la discussione è chiusa.
So, dear colleagues, the next item on the agenda is the Commission statement: effective measures to protect and empower children in the digital world. And I will start by giving the floor to Executive Vice-President Henna Virkkunen. Please, the floor is yours.
Henna Virkkunen
Honorable Chair, honorable members, for too long our children have been engaging with technologies that were never created with their well-being in mind. Algorithms decide what they see and notifications pull them back in. Platforms compete for every second of their attention. With the Digital Services Act, we ensured that a healthy, safe and secure online environment is more than an objective. It is a law.
And it was the first of its kind in the world and with tangible results.
Only this year alone, we have adopted 10 preliminary findings on protection of minors online, including on addictive design and on unsafe account settings. However, we have seen that the dangers are growing and new services, features and functionalities have brought new potential harms. And that is why we need to ensure safety from the very beginning. We need safety by design. And we need to be more strict when it comes to making certain products available.
With the EU Kids Act, we are saying enough is enough. This proposal is very much shaped by your work, the vital work of this house and your calls for further action. In addition, we have also gathered strong evidence, notably through our expert panel convened by President von der Leyen. And that is why we have submitted to you, we have a proposal for one set of harmonized rules at EU level, because every child, no matter where they are located, deserves the same high level of protection online. The proposal's key principle is that children's digital experiences must grow with them, in step with their needs and development, fully respecting their rights.
The EU Kids Act covers social media, video sharing platforms, online games, AI companions and chatbots. It proposes proportionate safety-by-design measures and clear prohibitions, along with a transparent, agile and effective enforcement. First, it proposes a gradual and age-appropriate approach to social media. The starting point is no autonomous social media accounts before 15. Between 13 and 15, guardians can set up mini accounts that children can use with the supervision of their parents and with strict time and contact limits.
As of 15 years, minors can create accounts on their own without losing protection. Second, it places safety-by-design placed at its core.
For all users until 18 years, digital services must meet strict safety by design requirements. A clear list of do's and don'ts, such as prohibitions of addictive design, safer settings, including prohibiting beauty filters and harmful features increasing social comparisons, safer feeds, effective and easy to use tools for guardians, which should be able to set time limits and manage settings. As these tools are often not used by guardians, providers are also required to encourage their rollout. Support and agency tools for minors and guardians, and for AI chatbots and companions, no features that mimic personal relationship and foster emotional dependencies. And third, this act reverse the burden of proof.
Let us be clear. It cannot be for the victims to prove that there is harm, but for providers to show that their services are safe for children and compliant with our rules. Before coming into contact with children, services must submit a compliance plan showing how they meet the new rules. And finally, it also adds two crucial elements for the effective protection of our children: age verification and fast enforcement. So online services, they must verify the age of new users.
And this age verification must be privacy-preserving and user-friendly.
And this is the standard set by the EU age verification blueprint. And to act quickly to protect children, we are also proposing a fast-track enforcement procedure to conclude within 90 days. Honorable Chair, honorable members, there is no time to waste when it comes to protecting minors online. That is why we call on your work for a swift adoption of this proposal, which aims to answer the calls of this house, which has and was been shaping of your work and grounded in a strong evidence. Enforcement under existing frameworks will continue at the highest speed and with due diligence.
I'm sure we all agree that the EU Kids Act must become law as soon as possible, because every day counts when it comes to the protection of our children. I look forward to hearing now your views on this.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Executive Vice-President. And now we come to the group speakers, beginning with Mr. Lariès for two minutes, please, on behalf of EPP.
Yes, thank you, Madam President. Dear Commissioner, each generation of parents throughout history will have had their own specific concerns and fears for the well-being and the future of their children.
Jeroen Lenaers
In the past, it might have been about health, safety, or enough food to eat. There might have been worries about drugs, crime, about bad influences. Today, for me and for many other parents of young children, the fear is not so much about the dangers of the physical world, but it most certainly is about what happens online. My children are still too young for social media, but if I look back at the developments over the past 10 years, I don't even want to know what the online world will look like by the time my children will start participating in it if we don't intervene now. In the real world, we would never knowingly hand over our children to an environment, an addictive environment designed to monitor them, to profile them, to exploit their vulnerabilities, and to influence their behavior for commercial gain.
Yet online, that is precisely what we do. And I don't want to look back in 10 years from now and say, we saw what was happening, we knew the risks, and we did nothing. The EU has a responsibility to act, and we also have the market power to make a difference. And it's time to draw a line. Technology must serve our children, not the other way around.
And the Kids Act gives us an opportunity to draw that line at the European level.
We need enforceable standards that put children's rights and well-being first. We need stronger safeguards, better accountability for platforms, and a digital environment designed with children in mind. And no individual country can tackle this alone. This requires coordinated European action because our children's safety should not depend on where in Europe they happen to live. Dear colleagues, the greatest fear of parents have changed over time, but our responsibility has not.
So let us together today start by drawing a line together. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Agius Saliba for two minutes on behalf of S&D, please.
Alex Agius Saliba
Thanks a lot, President, Vice-President. As a parent, I worry about my child. It is part of them growing up. Nowadays, the effect of online platforms on my daughter worries me the most. It is impossible to bring up children without addictive screens.
But for some parents, social media addiction turned into a nightmare of depression and also of self-harm. Too many families are mourning the loss of a child due to the toxic digital products. A staggering 90% of Europeans want us to regulate social media for children. Everyone agrees.
It shows us how bad things are and that legislation is overdue. Children are distracted at schools, their development and mental health is suffering. They lost what it means to be a child, free to play without worries and stress. And that is why the Socialists have called for a legislation to protect minors online, and we are glad that you listened to European parents that wanted this proposal. Social media and risky online services are not fit for all ages.
We need a minimum age that protects the youngest. Just writing up an age limit is not enough. It needs to be enforced to work in practice. Otherwise, we get what we saw in Australia, a paper tiger with plenty of loopholes. Europe has a chance once again to set a global standard.
If we require age verification of users, this should be done in a privacy-conversing way, with zero-knowledge protocols and third-party verification. We need to protect the data and anonymity of Europeans on the internet for all users, children and adults alike. Protection of minors cannot legitimize surveillance of our personal data.
Rather the opposite. This proposal should come hand in hand with an ambitious Digital Fairness Act that will protect all society from the negative impact of Big Tech business model. Deliberate addictive design like infinite scrolling, but also dark patterns and unfair dynamic pricing, they affect us all. We need to stop unfair business practices that exploit consumer weaknesses. They have no place on our internal market.
As lawmakers, we set the rules on what is acceptable conduct, not the businesses themselves.
And the next speaker is Ms. Vicsek for one minute on behalf of Patriots, please.
Annamária Vicsek
Honorable Executive Vice-President, I will speak in Hungarian. A gyermekek biztonsága és mentális egészsége nem lehet alkutárgy. A digitális világ mindennapjaink része, de vele együtt a képernyőfüggőség, az online zaklatás és a radikalizáció veszélye is. Álláspontunk változatlan: a gyermekek nevelésének elsődleges felelősei a szülők. Európának támogatnia kell őket, a korhatár és gyermekvédelmi szabályok meghatározása pedig tagállami hatáskör.
Az életkor-ellenőrzés a platformok feladata.
Üzleti érdekeik nem írhatják felül a gyermekek biztonságát. Fel kell lépni a grooming és az online zaklatás ellen, és meg kell akadályozni a gyermekek hozzáférését a pornográf és más káros tartalmakhoz. Fejlesztenünk kell digitális és médiatudatosságukat, valamint mérlegelő gondolkodásukat, hogy felismerjék a manipulációt és felelősen használják a technológiákat. Célunk világos: megvédeni és felkészíteni gyermekeinket, hogy biztonságosan eligazodjanak a digitális világban. Köszönöm szépen.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms. Kanko for one minute on behalf of ECR, please.
Assita Kanko
Thank you, I will speak in Dutch. Beste collega's, met hun verslavende algoritmes hebben grote sociale mediaplatforms het hoofd van onze kinderen overgenomen. We waarschuwen hen voor de risico's van online contacten en we tonen ons bezorgd over de schadelijke impact van sommige videogames. Waarom blijven we dat aanvaarden? Veilig opgroeien is geen luxe, het is een recht.
Al decennialang leggen we daarvoor als volwassenen, als politici, maar ook als ouders, allerlei regels vast: thuis, op school of in het verkeer. Ik verwelkom dan ook het nieuw initiatief van de Europese Commissie om dit ook voor de online leefomgeving te doen met de Kids Act.
Vele kinderen zitten vandaag gemiddeld vier tot zes uur per dag online. Dat is ontrustend. In de strijd tegen de vaak verwoestende impact van sociale media op kinderen mogen we de ouders niet in de steek laten. We moeten het probleem bij de bron aanpakken: bij de digitale platformen en bij de toezichthouders. Dit is geen achterhoedegevecht tegen de opmars van nieuwe technologie.
Dit is een strijd voor de toekomst van onze jeugd. Dank u wel.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Sifrova Ostrohonova for one minute on behalf of Renew, please.
Veronika Cifrová Ostrihoňová
Thank you, Chair, dear Vice-President, dear colleagues. "Please come home to me as soon as possible, my love." These were the words of an AI chatbot towards a 14-year-old Sewell Setzer, who took his own life a few seconds later. "I know your mom saw the last one, but you need to seriously think about this, I love you." And these were the words of a sexual offender towards a 14-year-old girl that he met through Roblox.
So let's not kid ourselves here. Demanding strong AI safeguards for chatbots interacting with our children is not restricting innovation. And blocking unwanted contacts of adults towards minors on social media is not limiting freedom of speech.
It's just protecting our children because as we've heard, enough is enough. And to all the tech bros listening, we've seen that you could act when you are forced to do so. And now Europe will act too. With our EU Kids Act, all of us need to make sure that we protect our children before the next message becomes the next tragedy. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Gregorová for one minute on behalf of the Greens, please.
Markéta Gregorová
Do you know how to make a teenager to do something? Tell them they cannot do it. The Commission is proposing a ban on children from social media with the Kids Act, despite data from Australia and expert testimonies from their own panel suggesting that age restrictions has little to no effect. Teenagers can simply lie about their age, use VPNs, use someone else's account or AI generate an adult ID. And if we want to stop them with mandatory ID checks, we create a whole another problem, putting everyone's privacy at risk.
We all want children to be safe online. But instead of trying to keep them off the internet, why not make the internet safer for everyone?
Platforms should be one to take the responsibility, with safer settings by default, better protection of privacy and transparent neutral algorithms. And if Commission really means it, why not broaden the scope of the 15 to 18 age category to 15 plus? How about no toxic social media for all of us, me included, 33 years old, you included, everyone. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Ferrara for one minute on behalf of the Left group, please.
Mario Furore
Grazie Presidente, gentile Commissaria Virkkunen. Stiamo crescendo purtroppo la prima generazione di bambini che può essere condizionata 24 ore al giorno da ciò che vede su uno schermo. Ansia, dipendenza, modelli irrealistici. Tutto questo può avere conseguenze sulla salute mentale dei nostri ragazzi. Allora il Kids Act è un passo sicuramente importante, ma le regole da sole non bastano.
Purtroppo gli algoritmi possono costruire gabbie emotive dalle quali un adolescente può non riuscire a uscire.
Noi non vogliamo una generazione di zombie davanti a uno schermo, vogliamo giovani invece capaci di pensare con la propria testa, liberi, critici, se vogliamo anche anticonformisti. Dobbiamo portare l'educazione digitale nelle scuole, lo dobbiamo, guardate, a tutti quei ragazzi, io penso all'esempio di una ragazza che in Italia a soli 12 anni, proveniva da Asti, si è tolta la vita, come denunciano i genitori, proprio per la spirale alimentata dai social. Ecco, dobbiamo, lo dobbiamo ai giovani come lei. Oggi essere analfabeti digitali, tra l'altro, non significa non saper usare uno smartphone, ma significa non accorgerci quando siamo noi a usare lo smartphone o quando è lo smartphone a utilizzare noi. Proteggere i nostri ragazzi significa restituire loro la libertà di alzare gli occhi da uno schermo e riprendersi la propria vita.
Grazie.
And the next speaker is Mr. Uhrík for one minute on behalf of ESN, please.
Milan Uhrík
Ja som presvedčený, že dnešné deti nepotrebujú viac nezmyslov ani viac pohlaví, ale potrebujú normálnych rodičov, normálnu výchovu a normálnych učiteľov. A áno, potrebujú aj lepšiu ochranu na internete, pretože to, čo sa na ne valí z niektorých sociálnych sietí, ale aj z filmov, to je s prepáčením demencia. A 13-ročné dieťa to nemá šancu rozpoznať a zase rodič to nemá šancu všetko ustrážiť.
No a potom sa čudujeme, že niektorým deťom jednoducho prepne a majú psychické problémy, zoberú strelnú zbraň a vystrieľajú niekoho na školách alebo zabijú svojho učiteľa, pretože si myslia, že je to ako v nejakej počítačovej hre, že jednoducho keď sa mi niekto nepáči, tak ho zastrelím. To sú šialené veci, priatelia. Toto tu kedysi nebolo, my sme takto neboli vychovávaní a kedysi sa to jednoducho nedialo. Čiže áno, poďme chrániť deti, poďme ich chrániť aj v online priestore, ale najmä návratom k zdravým tradičným hodnotám a k normálnej výchove a nie zavádzaním nejakého systému child control alebo podobných cenzúr a nezmyslov.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And now I will give the floor back to Executive Vice-President Virkkunen to comment on the debate so far. Please.
Henna Virkkunen
Honorable Chair, honorable members, thank you very much for your interventions. The important points you were raising show that there is very strong momentum now and ambition also to move forward quickly. Like many of you said, during the last years we have seen that the digital environment has been developing very fast and the business practices and especially the recommender system of the social media has become more and more personalized and that's why also now the social media has become much more addictive as well. So I hear your calls now for more comprehensive rules and implement it without delay. And we remain fully committed to that.
Already our Digital Services Act requires all platforms to provide high level of protection, especially when it's about minors, very high level of privacy, security and safety has to take place.
And one year ago we already published guidelines for online platforms, but we see that they are implementing them too slowly. And that's why we are now making in our Kids Act proposal these guidelines binding. In the same time we continue to enforce our DSA. This year alone, ten preliminary findings against platforms like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and large pornographic platforms. And they cover topics like addictive design for minors and other vulnerable users as well, unsafe accounts and kids accessing pornography.
And our toolbox goes also further. The Audiovisual Media Services Directive keeps kids safe on video sharing platforms and our AI Act prevents AI systems from exploiting children's vulnerabilities. And we have also Better Internet for Kids strategy and Safer Internet Centres, they provide support on the ground. So with the proposal for the EU Kids Act we are now strengthening our toolbox even further.
Thank you very much. And now we will continue with the speakers list.
So first and foremost, I will open the blue card, but I will ask you to try to stick to speaking time because we are a little bit ahead of... sorry, we are behind schedule, but I count on your support and stick to your speaking time and then more colleagues will have a chance to intervene. And the next speaker is Mr. Arias Echeverría for one and a half minute, please.
Pablo Arias Echeverría
Muchas gracias, presidente, vicepresidente Virkkunen, señorías. Conectar, compartir, aprender, divertirse, eso es lo que las redes sociales deberían ofrecer a nuestros menores, pero esas oportunidades conviven con riesgos que no podemos ignorar: adicción, ciberacoso, contenidos perjudiciales, autolesiones e incluso suicidio. Las pantallas ocupan un lugar cada vez mayor en nuestras vidas. Un chatbot sustituye el consejo de un adulto, un algoritmo parece conocerlos mejor que nadie y detrás de ese algoritmo hay quienes buscan retener su atención sin importar si lo que ven es dañino, ilegal o inadecuado para su edad. Ante esta realidad, la política tiene que actuar.
Por eso celebro que la Comisión Europea haya asumido el reto y que avancemos hacia una propuesta legislativa basada en la evidencia, las recomendaciones de expertos y herramientas concretas de protección.
Nuestro objetivo es claro: no queremos expulsar a los menores de internet, queremos que puedan disfrutar de sus oportunidades en un entorno seguro y que la sociedad tenga la garantía de que nuestros menores están protegidos. Y para lograrlo necesitamos más Europa, la fragmentación no protege mejor a nuestros menores, no necesitamos 27 normas distintas sino una norma común para los 27. Nuestro mercado está abierto a todos los que respeten nuestras condiciones, nuestro mercado, nuestras normas, y cuando hablamos de menores nuestra exigencia debe ser máxima. Señorías, hoy damos un paso para convertir una prioridad política y social en una protección efectiva, hagámoslo con agilidad, con rigor y con la profundidad que exige este desafío, porque detrás de esta propuesta hay niños, adolescentes y familias que esperan de nosotros algo más que palabras, esperan garantías, protección y respuestas.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. The next speaker is Ms. Beirun-Serrisa for one minute please.
Laura Ballarín Cereza
Thank you so much. Cuando hoy le preguntas a un niño ¿con quién hablas cuando estás triste?, uno de cada dos te dirá con un chatbot, con una máquina, y no es difícil entender por qué. Para muchos niños y niñas la inteligencia artificial se está convirtiendo en el confidente perfecto, siempre disponible, nunca juzga y siempre te da la razón. Pero aquí está el problema. Lo que parece compañía se convierte en esclavitud, porque esa escucha tiene un precio: dependencia emocional, aislamiento y una mente que se acostumbra a no pensar por sí misma.
Nuestros hijos no pueden crecer aprendiendo que una máquina es su mejor confidente. Y ante esta realidad saludamos la Kids Act, que obliga a los chatbots y a los compañeros de inteligencia artificial a garantizar los máximos niveles de seguridad y privacidad para menores de 18 años y también una edad mínima digital, prohibir los diseños adictivos para menores de edad. Hay que regular a nivel europeo. Y esto va más allá de la IA, también redes sociales, también videojuegos. Porque no podemos pedirle a nuestros hijos que aprendan a poner límites mientras las propias tecnologías están diseñadas para no tenerlos.
Así que necesitamos un freno de emergencia para nuestros menores, pero también una DFA que combata los diseños adictivos para los adultos. Nos lo piden nuestras familias y también una generación entera. Muchas gracias.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. And the next speaker is Ms. Suron for one minute, please.
Virginie Joron
Avec le Kids Act, vous fermez les réseaux sociaux aux moins de 15 ans et instaurez une vérification d'âge pour tous. De 13 à 15 ans, un compte tenu par les parents, une heure par jour pour y rentrer, une vérification certifiée. Macron le voulait, le Conseil constitutionnel a dit non, mais Ursula l'a repris. Aux parents absents, pas d'accès. Aux parents séparés, qui autorise ?
Bruxelles choisira qui. On a déjà l'article 28 du DSA, alors qui veut ces contrôles certifiés ?
Macron, von der Leyen, qui pour vendre un narratif aux jeunes utilisent McFly et Carlito à l'Élysée ou des jeunes influenceurs pour le discours de Sotchi. Protéger un mineur, ce n'est pas le contrôle pour tous, ni semer la zizanie dans les familles, c'est apprendre à lire ce qu'on lui montre. L'Australie a fermé la porte aux moins de 16 ans, huit jeunes sur dix y sont encore. La Finlande et l'Estonie apprennent à lire un écran, Singapour n'interdit pas. Regardez leur classement PISA.
Vous voulez protéger les mineurs, nous aussi, mais alors commencez par ouvrir une commission d'enquête Epstein et fermez s'il vous plaît le site Sexmodel rebaptisé Mes Libertines. Je vous remercie.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Valchev for one minute, please.
Ivaylo Valchev
Госпожо председател, госпожо комисар, уважаеми колеги, нашите деца растат в два свята. Светът, който ние познаваме, но и в един друг свят, свят на светещи екрани, които никога не заспиват. Аз разбирам импулса да затворим напълно вратата към този свят, но това е грешният отговор. Интернет не е стая с една врата. Интернет е като море, а морето не може да се затвори.
Но можем да учим децата да плуват и можем да пазим брега. EU Kids Act иска от всеки да доказва възрастта си на прага на всяка страница. Това не е защита на децата, това е масово наблюдение.
Огромни бази с лични данни, край на всяка една анонимност. И всичко това е безсмислено, защото всеки тийнейджър знае как да заобиколи тези защити с VPN за броени минути. Когато улиците на един град станат опасни, ние не забраняваме на хората да излизат навън. Ние преследваме нарушителите и правим средата безопасна за всички. Същото нещо дължим и на интернет, да държим отговорни платформите, които пристрастяват децата ни пред екраните, както и да приложим всички закони, които вече имаме.
Ние не искаме клетка за децата, а безопасен и свободен свят за тях. Благодаря.
Stéphanie Yon-Courtin
Madame la Vice-Présidente, Madame la Présidente, chaque semaine près de 100 jeunes Européens se donnent la mort. 100 jeunes Européens. Et plus les enfants passent de temps sur les réseaux sociaux, plus le risque de suicide augmente. Car sur ces plateformes, le mal-être est décuplé et circule en code. Un drapeau suisse pour réussir son suicide, un code-barres pour apprendre à se scarifier.
La modération ne fait rien, les algorithmes eux font tout et poussent ces contenus vers les plus fragiles matin, midi, soir, nuit, les enfermant dans une spirale mortelle. Mais c'est pas une fatalité. Outre-Atlantique, le tournant est historique.
Meta et TikTok ont accepté de limiter le temps d'écran des adolescents et de leur couper l'accès la nuit. Pendant ce temps en Europe, nos enfants ne dorment plus et le DSA, censé les protéger depuis 2023, dort dans un tiroir de la Commission européenne. Il devrait pourtant être le cauchemar des plateformes. Le Kids Act, que je salue parce qu'il reprend notre rapport de 2025, sera un vrai jalon, mais il ne s'appliquera pas avant 2028. D'ici là, Madame la Commissaire, qu'attendez-vous ?
Nous avons voté le DSA au Parlement européen, appliquez-le pleinement, sanctionnez, n'allez pas aller au-delà, pardon, des enquêtes préliminaires pour sauver nos enfants du suicide. Merci.
Thank you very much and the next speaker is Ms Van Sparrentak for one minute please.
Kim Van Sparrentak
Collega's, er komen inmiddels wekelijks schokkende onderzoeken uit over onze jongeren. Vandaag nog, 83% van de meisjes en vrouwen tussen de 12 en 29 jaar voelt zich regelmatig onveilig, zowel online als op straat. En twee weken terug schokte de sterke daling van LHBTQI-acceptatie onder jongeren die onder tienerjongens zelfs is gehalveerd. En ondertussen groeit de vraag van jongeren naar mentale gezondheidszorg. We moeten het onder ogen zien.
Online haat blijft niet online.
De manosfeer en content die zelfbeschadiging verheerlijken, blijven niet online. Het heeft echt effect op onze jongeren. En iedere dag dat Big Tech geld verdient aan roekeloze algoritmen en verslavende apps vormen zij een regelrecht gevaar voor onze samenleving, onze veiligheid en voor onze kinderen. We moeten nu ingrijpen. Het verbieden van verslavend ontwerp voor minderjarigen is de eerste stap, maar ik stel voor dat we die ophef-algoritmen ook volledig verbieden.
En laten we alsjeblieft niet doen alsof wij volwassenen wel bestand zijn tegen die manipulatieve trucjes van Big Tech. Commissaris, ik verwacht ook dat u stappen neemt om ons alle te beschermen en verslavend ontwerp verbiedt in de DSA.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much, dear colleagues, please try to stick to your speaking time. That will allow more people to speak. The next speaker is Ms Salis for one minute, please.
Grazie. Sono molte le cose che possiamo e dobbiamo fare per tutelare i bambini nell'era digitale. Da ex insegnante credo che l'educazione digitale e socio-affettiva nelle scuole sia fondamentale e dobbiamo investire molto di più in questi percorsi.
Ilaria Salis
Ma non basta, servono anche misure di controllo come l'introduzione di un limite di età per l'utilizzo di social network, 14 anni, garantendo al tempo stesso il pieno rispetto della privacy. Numerosi studi scientifici dimostrano quanto sia importante per lo sviluppo psicofisico dei bambini ridurre il tempo trascorso davanti agli schermi e favorire le relazioni, il gioco, lo sport, la lettura. Ma c'è un problema ancora più urgente che non riguarda soltanto i bambini, ma anche gli adolescenti e gli adulti: il potere tossico delle piattaforme. I social network utilizzano algoritmi progettati per tenerci incollati davanti allo schermo il più a lungo possibile e massimizzare i loro profitti, favorendo comportamenti compulsivi e dipendenze. Questo scandalo deve finire.
I bambini non devono essere una fonte di profitto. L'Europa deve avere il coraggio di regolare seriamente le Big Tech e anteporre ai loro sporchi guadagni la salute, i diritti e il benessere dei minori e di tutte le persone.
Thank you. First off, parents raise their children and Brussels needs to stay the heck out of it.
Christine Anderson
But it isn't about children's safety at all, is it? If that were truly the case, you would protect children from sexualized content of gender education, and you would protect them from the disgusting public display of sexual fetishes of the transgender activist community. No, what you are trying to usher in is yet another instrument to monitor how citizens express themselves online and means to persecute them. Today, it is just about age verification. Tomorrow, it'll be verification of identity, and you've got these plans already in the drawer, haven't you?
And eventually, the citizens will wake up in a totalitarian surveillance hellhole, a hellhole which you will then smirkingly call our democracy. Commissioner, withdraw your proposal and deliver to the people what they deserve: freedom from government. Thank you.
Luis-Vicențiu Lazarus
Dragi colegi, doamnă președintă, doamnă comisar, avem o problemă de abordare, am senzația, pentru că noi discutăm aici despre cum să interzicem adolescenților de 13-15 ani și apoi cu părinții să-i supraveghem cu atenție să mai aibă acces pe rețelele sociale. Dar acești copii sunt inocenți, ei când intră pe rețelele sociale nu au nicio vină. De fapt, de vină sunt cei care sunt deja pe rețelele sociale, niște fiare care se ocupă cu trafic de persoane, cu pornografie infantilă și care încearcă să manipuleze acești tineri. Însă problema este că acești oameni nu au o identitate asumată. Eu am pe rețele conturi clare asumate.
De ce nu toată lumea are aceste conturi asumate? De ce noi vrem acum să fim interesați de vârstă, dar nu suntem deloc interesați de identitate? Numai cei care vor să facă rău nu-și asumă identitatea pe rețele. Și atunci ne putem întreba care este de fapt viitorul acestor rețele? Ele nu au fost construite ca să socializăm, nu au fost construite...
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Dear colleagues, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And the next speaker is Mr. Sousa Silva for one and a half minute, please.
Hélder Sousa Silva
Senhora Presidente, Senhora Comissária, caros colegas. Proteger as crianças no mundo digital começa por preservar o seu direito a crescer, a aprender e a descobrir o mundo para além de um ecrã. Os números demonstram a urgência. Os dados mais recentes da Comissão Europeia mostram que os adolescentes passam, em média, quatro horas e meia por dia na internet em dias de semana e seis horas por dia ao fim de semana. Esta realidade claramente exige uma resposta à altura.
As crianças devem beneficiar das oportunidades da tecnologia sem que as suas vulnerabilidades sejam exploradas por funcionalidades e por algoritmos. O debate europeu deve procurar este equilíbrio: mais responsabilidade das plataformas, melhores instrumentos para as famílias e um ambiente digital adequado à idade, seguro desde a conceção e centrado na proteção das crianças. Mas proteger não basta. Temos de capacitar e temos de legislar e regular. Precisamos de mais literacia digital, de pensamento crítico, de professores preparados e famílias capazes de acompanhar os jovens.
O Kids Act articulado com a legislação já existente serão ferramentas urgentes e fundamentais. O objetivo é claro: queremos uma geração que domine a tecnologia e não uma geração dominada pela tecnologia. Muito obrigado.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms Sippel for one minute please.
Birgit Sippel
Vielen Dank. Beim Schutz von Kindern reden wir viel über Altersgrenzen, Altersverifikation, aber welches Problem lösen wir damit? Ein Kind wird ja nicht dadurch sicherer, dass die Plattform sein Alter kennt. Das eigentliche Problem ist ein Geschäftsmodell, das Aufmerksamkeit möglichst lange binden will, durch endloses Scrollen, Benachrichtigungen, personalisierte Empfehlungen und vieles mehr. Und das betrifft im Übrigen auch Erwachsene.
Die effektive Durchsetzung bestehender Regeln würde allen helfen. Altersverifikation darf nicht zur Beruhigungspille werden.
Und es wäre fatal, wenn im Hintergrund dieselben ausbeuterischen Systeme einfach weiterlaufen. Wir brauchen keine Algorithmen und Geschäftsmodelle, die Verletzlichkeit in Profit verwandeln und Aufmerksamkeit als Währung sehen, sondern strukturelle Sicherheit und Privacy by Design. Ein Verbot personalisierter Werbung und manipulativer Designs gerade für Kinder. Was wir nicht brauchen, ist eine digitale Ausweiskontrolle in zahllosen Online-Bereichen. Vielen Dank.
Ms. Sippel, there is a blue card from... okay, we will continue with the list and the next speaker is Ms. Elas for one minute, please.
Marieke Ehlers
Dank u wel, voorzitter, commissaris. Een Europese Kids Act klinkt goed bedoeld. Maar zoals vaker het geval is, is de weg naar de hel geplaveid met goede bedoelingen. En dit voorstel is daarop geen uitzondering. Een social media verbod is namelijk geen oplossing, want jongeren omzeilen het toch.
Maar straks moeten wel alle gebruikers aantonen hoe oud ze zijn. En ook gebruikers van VPN-verbindingen ontkomen daar niet aan. De Commissie tuigt hiermee de infrastructuur op om te weten wie iemand is en schaft effectief het anonieme internet af. Een soort Big Brother-commissie die alles wat u op het internet doet in het oog houdt. Zo wordt het kind met het badwater eruit gegooid en vervolgens als excuus gebruikt om onze online privacy af te schaffen.
Opvoeden is de taak van ouders, zeker niet van deze Commissie.
Kinderen verdienen bescherming, geen Europese voogd. Dank u wel.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms Gemma for one minute please.
Chiara Gemma
Presidente, Commissaria. Sono le undici di sera, un bambino di dodici anni scorre video nella sua cameretta. Non decide lui cosa vedere, decide un algoritmo progettato per non farlo staccare. I genitori in cucina credono che stia dormendo. Bene, questa è la sfida che ci attende.
Guardiamo allora con favore alla proposta della Commissione perché il Kids Act introduce strumenti importanti: limiti di età, verifica dell'età e sicurezza fin dalla progettazione. Le piattaforme devono fare la loro parte, le istituzioni devono garantire un quadro di protezione efficace, ma soprattutto le famiglie devono essere messe nelle condizioni di svolgere pienamente il loro ruolo educativo. Non possiamo lasciare sole le famiglie davanti alla complessità di un ambiente digitale. La protezione dei minori richiede regole chiare e responsabilità condivise.
E allora non dimentichiamo che i genitori sono i principali responsabili nell'accompagnare i propri figli verso un uso responsabile e consapevole delle tecnologie digitali. E infine ricordiamo che non dobbiamo scegliere tra protezione e libertà, dobbiamo costruire un ambiente digitale nel quale i nostri figli possano crescere, imparare ed esercitare i propri diritti in sicurezza. Grazie.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. And the next speaker is Ms Hahn for one minute please.
Svenja Hahn
Kinderschützen ohne Familien zu bevormunden, das muss doch unser Ziel sein. Und deshalb geht der Kids Act an vielen Stellen in die falsche Richtung. Der Staat ist kein Elternteil. Brüssel sollte Familien nicht die Bildschirmzeit ihrer Kinder vorschreiben. Und erst recht nicht dürfen wir alle Bürger zwingen, sich im Internet ständig auszuweisen.
Kinderschutz darf nicht als Vorwand für Überwachung missbraucht werden. Stattdessen müssen wir dort ansetzen, wo die Probleme wirklich entstehen: bei den Plattformen. Denn auch Kinder haben ein Recht auf Information und auf gesellschaftliche Teilhabe. Deshalb müssen wir Plattformen in die Pflicht nehmen, sichere und altersgerechte Angebote zu schaffen. Süchtig machende Algorithmen, Kostenfallen oder kontaktiert werden durch fremde Erwachsene.
Dort müssen wir ansetzen.
Denn das Internet ist mehr als TikTok Doomscrolling, es ist Bildung, es ist Kommunikation, es ist gesellschaftliche Teilhabe. Deshalb lassen Sie mich das auf den Punkt bringen: Plattform regulieren statt Familien zu kontrollieren, Kinder befähigen statt sie auszusperren und mehr Medienkompetenz statt staatlicher Bildschirmzeit.
Christel Schaldemose
Ms Hahn, there is a blue card from Mr Oliveira. Do you want to take it?
Please.
Mr Oliveira, seat 125 please.
João Oliveira
Obrigado, presidente. Senhora deputada Hahn, é evidente o poder que as multinacionais do sector digital alcançaram e a capacidade que têm não apenas de influenciar, mas de condicionar o desenvolvimento das crianças.
E o interesse comercial dessas multinacionais é antagónico com o interesse no desenvolvimento equilibrado e são das crianças. E a pergunta que lhe faço é de saber se na sua perspetiva, na perspetiva dos liberais, é possível proteger as crianças sem enfrentar essas multinacionais que detêm esse poder no setor digital e se ao Estado deve apenas caber a responsabilidade pela regulação ou se é preciso ir mais longe para termos efetivamente medidas eficazes na proteção das crianças no mundo digital.
Svenja Hahn
Ah, ich habe mich gefragt, ob Sie mir zugehört haben, lieber Kollege, weil ich habe sehr klar gesagt, dass wir Plattformen in die Verantwortung nehmen müssen. Ich bin 89 geboren, ich kann mich noch erinnern an die Vorhänge in den Videotheken, wo ich als Kind nicht dahinter gekommen bin. Und genauso müssen wir auch darüber reden, was für Regeln brauchen wir im digitalen Raum, im digitalen Miteinander, dass Kinder sicher und geschützt sind, aber die Logik kann nicht sein, Kinder auszusperren, sondern sichere Online-Räume für sie zu schaffen und da sind die Plattformen eben in der Verantwortung.
Sylvie Robert
Thank you so much and the next speaker is Mr. Marquardt for one minute please.
Erik Marquardt
Ja, vielen Dank Frau Präsidentin, Frau Kommissarin. Natürlich brauchen Kinder mehr Schutz, auch im Internet. Aber Schutz allein macht ja noch kein sicheres Internet oder mündige Erwachsene und deswegen ist es wichtig, dass wir diesen Anlass jetzt nutzen, das alles umfassend zu betrachten. Viele Erwachsene fallen auch auf Falschinformationen rein oder werden süchtig. Und ich bin gar nicht komplett dagegen, dass 14-Jährige auch betreut werden von ihren Erwachsenen, aber ich bin sicher, dass es auch viele 14-Jährige gibt, die ihre Eltern im Internet besser betreuen könnten, als wenn sie da allein unterwegs sind.
Und ich glaube, dass wir eigentlich drei Punkte brauchen. Das erste ist Schutz. Ja, das kann altersgerechte Zugänge bedeuten, aber es muss eben auch Datenschutz und Privatsphäre für Kinder betreuen. Ansonsten bedeuten, ansonsten haben wir neue Gefahren und weniger Schutz. Zweitens, ich glaube, dass wir nicht nur Kinder, auch Erwachsene viel besser befähigen müssen, Informationen zu hinterfragen, Mechanismen, Algorithmen etc. zu verstehen.
Und drittens brauchen wir Plattformen, die wirklich auch endlich in die Verantwortung genommen werden. Es ist Schluss mit der Appeasement-Politik, hoffe ich jetzt auch langsam. Guter Kinderschutz schützt Kinder ja nicht nur vor Social Media, sondern sorgt dafür, dass das Internet wieder für alle sicherer wird und nicht eine Maschine zur Massenpoli-, Massenmanipulation von Tech-Bros bleibt.
Καλησπέρα σε όλους. Όταν ανατρέχω στα παιδικά μου χρόνια, θυμάμαι μία εντελώς διαφορετική καθημερινότητα, όπου το παιχνίδι, η παρέα, η επικοινωνία είχαν κυρίαρχο, πρωταγωνιστικό ρόλο. Σίγουρα δεν είχαμε μία οθόνη όπου καθ' όλη τη διάρκεια της ημέρας θα διεκδικούσε την προσοχή και το ενδιαφέρον μας. Σήμερα, δυστυχώς, η εικόνα είναι διαφορετική.
Nikos Pappas
Βλέπουμε παιδιά όλο και μικρότερης ηλικίας με ένα κινητό στο χέρι να μεγαλώνουν μέσα σε ένα ψηφιακό κόσμο που πολλές φορές δεν έχει σχεδιαστεί για να τα προστατεύσει αλλά για να αποσπά την προσοχή τους όσο περισσότερο γίνεται. Και γι' αυτό δεν μπορούμε να ρίχνουμε την ευθύνη μόνο στα παιδιά. Η ευθύνη είναι δική μας και κυρίως των ίδιων των πλατφορμών. Αλλά ένα ηλικιακό όριο από μόνο του δεν αρκεί. Χρειαζόμαστε ουσιαστικούς κανόνες απέναντι σε εθιστικές πρακτικές, πραγματικούς ελέγχους, ασφαλή σχεδιασμό και αποτελεσματική προστασία των ανηλίκων με σεβασμό στα προσωπικά τους δεδομένα.
Χρειαζόμαστε όμως και κάτι ακόμα. Περισσότερες ευκαιρίες για τα παιδιά να σηκώσουν το βλέμμα απ' την οθόνη. Να παίξουνε, να αθληθούν, να δημιουργήσουν, να συναντηθούν πραγματικά μεταξύ τους. Γιατί το ζητούμενο δεν είναι να βγάλουμε τα παιδιά απ' τον ψηφιακό κόσμο, είναι να μην επιτρέψουμε στον ψηφιακό κόσμο να τους στερήσει την παιδική ηλικία. Ευχαριστώ πολύ.
Most már látjuk, hogy a túlzott social media használat nemcsak függőséget és szorongást okozhat, hanem a lesújtó PISA-eredmények alapján már a gyerekek tanulmányi teljesítményére is hatással lehet. Úgyhogy most már tényleg lépnünk kell. Az internetnek számos előnye van, de nem a gyerekekre tervezték.
Dóra Dávid
A cél az online tér biztonságossá tétele és megtanítani a gyerekeket a felelős használatra. A probléma kezelésére átfogó eszköztárra van szükség: oktatásra, tudatosításra, a meglévő jogszabályok hatékony végrehajtására és a jogi hézagok orvoslására. Erre az utóbbira az EU Kids Act egy fontos eszköz lesz. Örülök, hogy a Bizottság sok helyen tükrözi a Parlament álláspontját, például egy egységes európai social media korhatárról, a profilalkotáson alapuló hírfolyamok visszaszorításáról, a biztonságos tervezésről és arról is, hogy kitér az AI chatbotokra és a videojátékokra is. De ne feledkezzünk meg a videojátékokban megjelenő szerencsejáték-szerű elemekről sem, például a loot boxokról, amire a bizottsági jelenlegi tervezete nem tér ki.
Ha a kaszinóba nem mehetnek be a gyerekek a való világban, akkor az online térben miért engednénk be őket oda? A Kids Act tervezet egy jó alap arra, hogy biztonságossá tegyük az online teret a gyerekeknek, és segítsük őket, hogy magabiztosan igazodjanak el benne. Köszönöm.
Sandro Ruotolo
Grazie Presidente, Vicepresidente Virkkunen. Ho ascoltato il suo intervento, è proprio una rivoluzione quella che sta avvenendo in queste aule del Parlamento europeo e credo sia importante sottolinearlo. Ormai abbiamo capito che la responsabilità non può ricadere sui genitori, sono le piattaforme che devono cambiare il loro atteggiamento, la loro architettura, il modo stesso in cui costruiscono gli spazi digitali abitati dai più giovani. Dobbiamo rispettare dei principi, delle regole, per esempio la protezione dei dati, la salute dei minori. Purtroppo le cronache dei giornali di tutta Europa sono piene di storie come quella della giovane Rossella, dodicenne suicida.
E allora, per esempio, penso al quindicenne morto folgorato su un traliccio mentre partecipava a una sfida sui social. E abbiamo visto più volte piattaforme come TikTok e Meta finire davanti ai tribunali. Ecco perché il Kids Act è così importante, perché rappresenta una svolta. È questo il cambio di paradigma che aspettavamo.
Prima viene la sicurezza dei ragazzi e solo dopo il profitto delle piattaforme. Grazie.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Mr. Blaško for one minute, please.
Jaroslav Bžoch
Děkuju za slovo, paní předsedkyně, vážená paní komisařko, kolegyně, kolegové. Děti dnes vyrůstají v digitálním světě. Ano. A naším cílem by nemělo být je z něj úplně izolovat, to zkrátka není možné, ale spíše naučit se v něm bezpečně pohybovat. Potřebujeme nastavit jasná pravidla pro platformy.
Neměli bychom přehlížet návykové prvky, jako je nekonečné scrollování nebo obsah, který je navržený tak, aby u něj děti zůstaly co nejdéle. Já osobně nemám problém ani s tím, aby byl přístup dětí k sociálním sítím omezený, ale regulace jako sama taková o sobě nestačí. Potřebujeme se zaměřit na digitální vzdělávání, a to nejen dětí, ale i rodičů. Rodiče musí vědět, jaká rizika na jejich děti v online světě čekají a jak s nimi o těchto rizicích mluvit. A dítě zase musí samo umět rozpoznat manipulaci, kyberšikanu, závadný obsah a vědět, jak se zachovat v takovém případě, že s těmito nebezpečnými praktikami setká.
Prostě musí kriticky myslet. My sice můžeme nastavovat pravidla a dbát na to, aby je platformy dodržovaly, ale bezpečí našich dětí to na sto procent nezaručí. Za bezpečí našich dětí totiž zodpovídáme my všichni. Chraňme děti, ale zároveň je připravme na svět, ve kterém budou žít, protože jedině tak zajistíme odolnost nadcházející generace. Děkuji.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms. Wiśniewska for one minute, please.
Przecież świat, w którym wychowujemy dzieci, nigdy nie będzie już wolny, niestety, od algorytmów i sztucznej inteligencji. A więc musimy przygotować dzieci do życia w cyfrowej rzeczywistości. Dzieci potrzebują dorosłych, którzy wyznaczają jasne granice oraz szkół uczących uważności i cyfrowych kompetencji. Odporność psychiczna i dyscyplina kształtują się...
Szanowni państwo, odgórne zakazy nie będą skuteczne.
Excuse me, excuse me, Ms, there is no English translation. So sorry, we need to make sure that... no English translation. Can we make sure that someone checks it in the box? It should work now again. Please, and I'm sorry, but you can start all over.
Thanks.
Jadwiga Wiśniewska
Szanowni Państwo. Odgórne zakazy nie będą skuteczne. Przecież świat, w którym wychowujemy dzieci, nigdy już nie będzie wolny od algorytmów i sztucznej inteligencji. A więc musimy przygotować dzieci do życia w cyfrowej rzeczywistości.
Dzieci potrzebują dorosłych, którzy wyznaczają granice oraz szkół uczących uważności i cyfrowych kompetencji. Odporność psychiczna i dyscyplina kształtują się w domu i w szkole i przypominam Komisji, że edukacja to wyłączna sprawa państw członkowskich. Pani von der Leyen, po niszczących skutkach pani sztandarowego projektu, jakim jest Zielony Ład, oczekuje pani naprawdę od nas kolejnego kredytu zaufania? Dzieci nie mogą stać się zakładnikami pani kolejnego eksperymentu politycznego, bo on niestety w żaden sposób nie rozwiązuje problemu, tylko przesuwa go w czasie. Potrzebujemy skutecznych, kompleksowych rozwiązań.
Dziękuję.
Thank you very much. Ms. Wiśniewska, there is a blue card from Mr. Stier. Do you want to take it? Stier, Mr. Stier. Please.
Seat 673, please.
Davor Ivo Stier
E, kolegice, rekli ste da treba se pripremiti djecu za digitalni svijet, da neće zabrane riješiti problem. Međutim, i u realnom svijetu, ne samo u digitalnom, u realnom svijetu postoje ograničenja za maloljetnike. Kada idu kupiti u trgovinu, ne mogu, na primjer, alkoholna pića i normalno da postoje određena ograničenja.
I oni će se sutra i u to tržište uključiti, ali moraju se za to pripremiti. I stoga ta ograničenja, čini mi se da su opravdana i trebamo to što je u realnom svijetu isto tako imati i u digitalnom svijetu. Zar se ne slažete?
Jadwiga Wiśniewska
Dziękuję panu za to pytanie. Myślę, że nie zostałam właściwie zrozumiana. Uważam, że propozycje przedstawione przez Komisję nie będą skuteczne i nie będą wystarczające. Aplikacja, którą przedstawiła Komisja Europejska, została złamana w ciągu dwóch minut, rozszyfrowana. Więc my musimy zwracać uwagę na to, w jaki sposób wychowujemy dzieci, jak je kształtujemy.
Nie uciekniemy od świata cyfrowego. Zgadzam się z panem i podzielam pana troskę, że musimy zadbać o dzieci i chronić je, ale te propozycje uważam, że będą niestety nieskuteczne.
Ko gre za otroke, imamo odrasli neverjeten talent. Radi rešujemo, predvsem sebe, bom razložila.
Irena Joveva
Otroci na spletu absolutno potrebujejo zaščito in zakonodaja v pripravi je končno priložnost za to. Ampak otroci niso ustvarili tega problema. Od otrok zahtevamo samokontrolo, sistem pa je narejen, da jo izgubijo. Nekdo je zasnoval neskončno drsenje, vključil autoplay, naučil algoritme, da nas držijo pred ekrani. In nekdo s tem služi bajno.
Zato morajo najprej odgovarjati tisti, ki so to ustvarili, takoj za njimi pa mi kot politiki. In tu pridemo do stavka, ki smo ga v tej hiši slišali neštetokrat: za otroke gre. Res je, za otroke gre. Ravno zato zasebnost, sorazmernost in temeljne pravice ne smejo kar prenehati veljati. Torej: platforme, politiki in mi vsi kot odrasli tokrat.
Otroško odvisnost opazimo, kaj pa našo? Vsi mi potrebujemo meje. V redu, tudi starostne, toda ne more se zaščita otrok končati tam, kjer se začne poslovni model platform. In ne sme biti naloga otrok popravljati sveta, ki smo ga pokvarili mi. Hvala.
Thank you, and the next speaker is Ms. Rihl for one minute, please.
Nela Riehl
I am glad that the Commission is finally catching up on what we parents have been knowing for years, that leaving our kids to fend for themselves against addictive digital platforms is a massive mistake. The EU Kids Act can be a real breakthrough. With one clear standard all across Europe, we can finally stop platforms from treating our children as raw data. But protecting children isn't and must not be just about bans. We need digital literacy and education so that technology becomes a safe place for growth.
The internet can and also should be a safe place for true freedom, for creativity and for connection. But right now, Big Tech does the exact opposite. Personalize, polarize, keep us hooked. That's how they poison our public square and break our democracies. The algorithms breaking our kids' mental health are the same ones that are manipulating actually us, the grown-ups.
We need rules that protect all of us. So our public square belongs to citizens and not to algorithms.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms Glavak for one minute, please.
Hvala vam lijepo, poštovana potpredsjednice. Radila sam na izvješću o utjecaju društvenih mreža na mlade i ugradili smo vrlo jasnu poruku: sigurnost i privatnost djece moraju biti zadana postavka digitalnih platformi.
Sunčana Glavak
No kod provedbe želim skrenuti pozornost na nekoliko pitanja. Djeca već prije 13. godine prema nacionalnim zakonodavstvima u mnogim zemljama mogu imati određena prava i sve veću autonomiju u odlukama koje ih se tiču. Kako ćemo to uskladiti s jedinstvenim europskim dobnim granicama? Tko će davati pristanak i upravljati računom kada su roditelji razvedeni i zajednički ostvaruju roditeljsku skrb? Što u slučaju neslaganja roditelja?
Što kada dijete živi s udomiteljima ili kada roditeljsku odgovornost ostvaruje skrbnik? Kako će platforma utvrditi tko zaista ima pravo odlučivati, a da pritom ne prikuplja dodatne osjetljive podatke o djetetu i njegovoj obitelji? O tome moramo voditi računa. Zabrana može postaviti granicu, ali ne može naučiti dijete kako prepoznati manipulaciju i dezinformaciju. Stoga naš cilj ne smije biti izbaciti djecu iz digitalnog svijeta, naš cilj mora biti osposobiti ih da se u njemu kreću sigurno, kritički i samostalno.
Hvala lijepa.
Thank you very much. Thank you, dear colleague. Thank you. The next speaker is Ms In 't Veld for one minute, please.
Evin Incir
Madam President, colleagues, Commissioner.
Imagine sending a child into a playground with broken swings, sharp edges and predators at the gate, and then telling the child: just be more careful. We would never accept it, yet online we do exactly that right now. We tell children: look, block, scroll away, protect yourself. We can't put the whole burden on the child nor their parents. We must fix the playground, not the child.
Behind every screen is a child, curious, trusting, growing, and right now we are depriving them from their youth. Europe has tools: enforce the Digital Service Act and AI Act, demand safer and transparent algorithms and age-appropriate design, put an age limit on the use of platforms, and when billion-euro platforms fail our children, there must be real consequences. Enforcement is important. Our laws cannot continue being words on a paper.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Mr Staněk for one minute please.
Antonín Staněk
Paní předsedající, paní komisařko, kolegyně, kolegové. Ochrana dětí v digitálním světě není otázkou pravice nebo levice.
Platformy působí napříč hranicemi a proto společný evropský postup v tomto případě dává smysl. Škodlivé algoritmy, návykový design a grooming musíme řešit a platformy musí nést skutečnou odpovědnost. Ale dítě nejlépe chrání informovaný rodič, dobrá škola, jeho vlastní odolnost a kritické myšlení. Rodiny, školy a členské státy proto musí mít dostatek prostoru konat. Při tvorbě evropských pravidel bychom však měli dodržet tři zásady.
Rodiče musí zůstat klíčovými partnery. Ověření věku musí chránit soukromí a nesmí vést k plošné identifikaci uživatelů. A pravidla proti škodlivému obsahu musí být přesná, aby se nikdy nestala nástrojem cenzury. Chraňme děti před skutečnými riziky digitálního světa, ale chraňme zároveň jejich soukromí a svobodu.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Blaško for one minute, please.
Dámy a pánové, ruku na srdce. Kdybychom si každou vteřinu uvědomovali, co všechno číhá na naše děti v online světě, pustili bychom je tam?
Nikola Bartůšek
Vypili bychom si v klidu kávu, zatímco ony koukají na něco na TikToku? Nemyslím si. Naše děti chráníme odmala, když montujeme autosedačky nebo ukládáme prací prášky tam, kam ony nedosáhnou. Jako máma vím, že naše děti nečelí jen nevhodnému obsahu nebo kyberšikaně. Čelí platformám navrženým tak, aby co nejdéle udržely jejich pozornost, využívaly jejich zranitelnosti a vytvářely jim návykové chování.
A to mě docela děsí. Ano, nastal čas na přísnější pravidla pro platformy, pravidla, která naše děti i nás ochrání. Mám ale jedno velké ale. Budu sledovat každý návrh Komise a všechny detaily. Jsem pro ochranu dětí, jsem pro odpovědnost platforem za algoritmy, ale nechci další plošný chat control ani databáze se skeny obličejů našich dětí, které by soukromé firmy vytvářely kvůli ověřování věku a které by mohly skončit potom v nelegálním obchodě.
Proti tomu budu vždy bojovat.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you, thank you very much and the next speaker is Mr. Körner for one minute please.
Liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, Frau Kommissarin, ich habe das Gefühl, wir machen in Europa immer wieder den gleichen Fehler.
Moritz Körner
Wir sind super gut darin, über Regulierung zu diskutieren. Es ist doch nicht so, dass wir keine Regeln im digitalen Bereich haben: die DSGVO, den DSA. Aber wir sind wahnsinnig langsam, das tatsächlich auch mal umzusetzen. Selbst in Donald Trumps Amerika haben Bundesstaaten mittlerweile Meta verklagt, eine Strafe erwirkt und Regeln durchgesetzt, die wir hier jetzt noch mit neuer Regulierung diskutieren. Wir schaffen immer wieder die nächste Regulierung.
Und ich bin nicht dagegen, Kids besser im Internet zu schützen, aber es greift doch auch in Wahrheit zu kurz. Die negativen Auswirkungen von Social Media sind nicht nur bei Kindern da, und wir müssen endlich anfangen, unsere bestehenden Regeln auch effizienter gegen Big Tech durchzusetzen. Und gleichzeitig bestehen auch Gefahren. Die Privatsphäre, das freie Internet durch Altersverifikation bietet ein Risiko für Anonymität und Privatsphäre, und weiterhin droht die Chatkontrolle, das Überwachen all unserer Chats. Kümmern Sie sich darum, dass wir das freie Europa und das Internet verteidigen.
Thank you, dear Chair, dear Commissioner. We live in a world where parents are aware that if a kid is let out at night in a park, the park might pose problems.
Maria Guzenina
It can be a dangerous place. But at the same time, in the evening, a child has full access to the phone, to a internet world which can be even more dangerous. We have chatbots that look like Disney characters. Behind them, there are criminals trying to take advantage of a child. This is not science fiction.
This is what's happening in the world today. Only half of children across Europe say they feel safe online. It's about cyberbullying, grooming, harmful content, addictive design. It is a Wild West with not enough sheriffs on duty. So we must act now, otherwise we're going to lose a generation that cannot think straight because they have seen atrocities on internet.
We need to get this right. And I think we can. We just need to work on it together. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Ms. Guzenina. There is a blue card. There's a blue card. Do you want to take it from Mr. Dostál, seat 845, please?
Hello. I wanted to ask, well, as a parent, you don't let the kid to a dangerous park. But also as a parent, you have to buy an internet access and a cell phone and a computer so the kid can get to the internet.
And you can act as a sheriff, as a parent. So why are you asking this plenum to regulate on what every parent should do and could do alone? Thank you.
Maria Guzenina
As I understand, you are urging for parents to take more responsibility, but it cannot lay only on the parents because families can be very different. And I want that our children are treated equal despite the family they live in. We have families with lots of problems and the parents just don't have the means to check what their children are seeing on their mobile phones. The example I gave where, for example, a Disney character is used to be a chatbot for a nine-year-old child. Parent might look at the phone and see, okay, you're talking with a Disney character.
It's a disguise. And then bad things happen after that.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next speaker is Mr. Dieringer for one minute, please.
Geschätzte Damen und Herren, fast 80 % der Jugendlichen zwischen 12 und 15 Jahren informieren sich über das Weltgeschehen über soziale Netzwerke.
Elisabeth Dieringer
Das wollen wir doch, oder? Uns gefallen doch hoffentlich allen interessierte junge Menschen. Und ja, dann kann es auch durchaus sein, dass durch diesen freien Informationsfluss nun auch überall in Europa die Zustimmung zu rechten Parteien unter jungen Menschen steigt. Da ist es schon verständlich, dass die etablierten Parteien Angst bekommen und sogar Angst vor Social Media. Diese Netzwerke sind schließlich viel schwieriger zu kontrollieren als ein öffentlich-rechtlicher Rundfunk oder von staatlichen Förderungen abhängige Mainstream-Medien.
Trotz unzähliger Zensurversuche in Form von DSA und DMA schaffen sie es nicht, dieser Entwicklung Herr zu werden. Deswegen wird jetzt zum neuen Angriff aufgerufen, und zwar unter dem Deckmantel des Kinderschutzes. Der Kids Act heißt im Endeffekt einfach: keine alternativen Nachrichtenkanäle mehr für junge Erstwähler. Man geht zurück zu den kontrollierten Mainstream-Medien. Ich stimme nicht zu, den Kinderschutz für solche offensichtlich parteistrategischen Maßnahmen herzunehmen.
Von mir gibt es nur ein Ja zu echtem Kinderschutz, Ja zur Ermächtigung der Eltern, Nein zur Zensur und Medienkontrolle.
Thank you. Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Aziz, one minute, please.
Muito obrigado. Este tema é um tema da maior importância, o da relação das crianças com o mundo digital.
Francisco Assis
As crianças não são adultos em miniatura. São seres humanos que estão ainda num processo de desenvolvimento mental, biológico, cultural e, como tal, os conceitos de liberdade e de responsabilidade que se aplicam aos adultos, evidentemente não se podem aplicar às crianças. E é por isso que se exige a adoção de legislação com algum carácter proibitivo neste domínio. Nós saudamos a proposta de regulamento Kids apresentada pela Comissão no mês passado e o futuro regulamento da equidade digital porque entendemos que vão num bom sentido, no sentido de proteção das crianças com aplicação de regras comuns no espaço europeu. Sabemos que a lei não é suficiente e que as escolas têm aqui um papel absolutamente fundamental a desempenhar.
Aliás, os resultados do relatório PISA 2025 confirmam isso mesmo. Há uma tendência negativa na última década, que se verificou na última década. Na OCDE, as capacidades no domínio da leitura caíram 28 pontos e em matemática 22, entre 2015 e 2025. Um em cada cinco alunos de 15 anos não domina hoje as chamadas competências básicas contra 16% em 2015. É matéria séria.
Thank you very much. Thank you dear colleague. Thank you so much. And the next speaker is Ms. Grossmann for one minute please.
Elisabeth Grossmann
Danke Frau Präsidentin Schaldemose, vor allem für Ihren Initiativbericht, der ja die Basis für den Kids Act bildet. Ja Frau Vizepräsidentin, wir können, die Zeit ist mehr als reif dafür. Stress, Angst, Schlafprobleme, Einsamkeit, unsere Kinder sind heute Online-Geschäftsmodellen ausgesetzt, die auf maximale Aufmerksamkeit setzen und durch endloses Scrollen süchtig machende und ja sehr schädliche Inhalte die Gesundheit unserer Kinder beeinträchtigen. Daher ist ein EU-weites Mindestalter für soziale Medien unverzichtbar. Und es ist schlichtweg nicht zumutbar, dass die Verantwortung allein bei den Eltern liegen soll, die ja selbst sehr oft Ziele von Algorithmen sind.
Ja, da braucht es ein Bündel von umfassenden Maßnahmen für eine gesunde digitale Gesellschaft für alle. Deshalb brauchen wir eine konsequente Umsetzung des DSA und auch eine rasche Beschlussfassung des Digital Fairness Act.
Thank you very much. And the last speaker before Catch-the-eye is Mr. Dibrani for one minute please.
Tack fru talman. Alltså många barn och unga mår dåligt på grund av sociala medier idag. De fastnar i ett skärmberoende, har svårt att stänga av, svårt med skolan och vänskaper, riktiga vänskaper blir färre.
Adnan Dibrani
Detta är ju inte barnens fel. De här tjänsterna är ju inte utformade för barn. Tvärtom är de ju utformade för att maximera skärmtid och för att skapa beroenden. När det gäller det verkliga livet, offline, då skulle ju detta aldrig vara okej. Vi skulle sätta gränser för det vi vet är farligt, precis som vi har gjort när det gäller gränser för tobak, alkohol och att köra bil.
Samma sak måste ju rimligtvis gälla online. Barn ska självklart kunna fortsätta vara på nätet, men med ett rimligt skydd som till exempel ett säkerhetsbälte. Jag är glad över att EU-kommissionen har kommit fram med ett förslag som nu ligger på vårt bord, där tydlig åldersgräns är en del, förbud mot de allra värsta funktionerna är något annat, till exempel oändligt skrollande och riktad reklam till barn. Sånt här ska vi inte ha i EU. Barnens bästa måste alltid gå före.
De är trots allt vår framtid. Tack fru talman.
Tack så mycket. So, dear colleagues, as you can imagine, we have quite a lot of requests for catch-the-eye and I will not be able to take all of you, but I will take eight and I will distribute them over the groups. And I will begin with Ms. Doherty, seat 410, please. Yes, please.
I wasn't sure if... President, I have four lovely children at home.
Regina Doherty
They're growing up now, but they were still only small when social media became part of their lives. And it was, they were trying to figure it out, and if I'm to be really honest with you, so was I. At the time, I was a cabinet minister, I was working hard in government, we all know the story, but platforms were equally working just as hard to try to get my kids' attention. And like many parents, I didn't really fully understand the implications, the perils, and I think that's why this is so personal to me now. The EU Kids Act is our chance to give the next generation of children the protection they deserve: private accounts by default, age checks that respect privacy, and action against addictive design.
We have to work with children, with parents and families, listen to their experiences, and make sure that they help us to shape this act. Children should be free to learn, to connect, to create online engagements without being manipulated by platforms, bullied, or kept scrolling just for somebody else's profit. So please God, when my children have their children, when we do our job of work here, the online world will be a safe and enjoyable place for all of them to enjoy.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker will be Ms. Pajín, seat 629, please.
Leire Pajín
Gracias, presidenta. Paula tenía trece años cuando un adulto diez años mayor que ella la contactó a través de las redes sociales.
Se ganó su confianza, quedó con ella, abusó de ella y después subió las imágenes a la red. De estos hay muchos casos. Es un ejemplo desgarrador que nos recuerda la importancia de regular, porque el problema no es solamente a qué edad se entra, sino qué se encuentran cuando entran, quién puede contactarles y qué contenidos les recomienda el algoritmo. Por eso es necesario prohibir los diseños adictivos, esos que están generando impacto en la salud mental, en el desarrollo cognitivo, en la atención, en los resultados educativos. Es absolutamente importante perseguir los algoritmos que exponen contenidos ilegales y nocivos y que las responsables de las plataformas se responsabilicen de esta realidad.
Por eso Estados miembros como España han intentado regular y ahora la Comisión debe dar un paso al frente, situando la responsabilidad en las plataformas y no en las familias, y preguntándole a esa derecha que se opone a esta regulación cuál es su solución para proteger a los menores.
Thank you very much, colleague. The next speaker will be Mr. Mularczyk, seat 590 please.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk
Dziękuję bardzo.
W dzisiejszej debacie na temat środków ochrony i wsparcia dzieci w świecie cyfrowym chciałem zwrócić uwagę na zjawisko deepfake'u. To jest zjawisko które jest bardzo rozpowszechnione w mediach społecznościowych gdzie wykorzystuje się bardzo często wizerunki osób publicznych znanych w Polsce na przykład prezydenta Rzeczpospolitej Karola Nawrockiego czy też jego małżonki po to żeby wprowadzać w błąd odbiorców często właśnie dzieci. Deepfake'i dzisiaj stanowią jednym z największych zagrożeń w mediach społecznościowych ponieważ wprowadzają w błąd nieletnich odbiorców internetu. Dlatego też zwrócisz szczególną uwagę Komisji Europejskiej na wypracowanie skutecznych mechanizmów walki z deepfake'ami ponieważ w moim kraju w Polsce nawet najwięksi przedsiębiorcy których dobra są wizerunek jest wykorzystywany nie są w stanie sobie dać na podstawie środków prawnych z deepfake'ami które są produkowane przez Facebook Meta na Facebooku. Dziękuję bardzo.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Vasconcelos seat 31 please.
Thank you chair VP Commissioner Jukkunen. We all agree that we must make children safe online.
Ana Vasconcelos
We are all concerned about the very alarming risks that we are discovering with the passing of time. Most of us agree on a number of solutions that haven't really been tried yet, like limiting infinite scrolling, digital curfews, namely in schools, and digital literacy for parents. How many parents really across Europe know about parenting controls online? The question is, why are we moving with a social media ban when there is already evidence that it is neither effective nor safe? In Australia, seven in ten children report that it is easy to circumvent the ban, which actually makes them less safe online because they're unsupervised navigating online with all the risks that we know of.
More than 400 specialists at the top of their field have written letters, open letters, calling attention for lawmakers and policymakers to the risks of a social media ban.
Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you, sorry, thank you very much. It's one minute. Thank you. The next speaker will be Ms Strolenberg, seat 29 please.
Thank you. I stand with Jane Doe, and I am sick and tired of men telling us they will be our protector. Because protector of whom?
Anna Strolenberg
There was a group chat of 57 men, and there was not one protector to be found. There was a university board of Cornell, and there was not one protector to be found. If it weren't for abusive men, we wouldn't need protection. And I'm talking about this because these abusive men are also shaping our digital world. Every day there's new technologies coming up.
We have Meta glasses filming women. We have spyware apps that can track the whereabouts of women, that can track their messages, their cameras. We have nudify apps. And in this house, 50 members were targeted by deepfakes. And it's not just us, it's also young girls who fall victim more and more.
Tech companies compromise the safety of women and girls for profit, and they should be held accountable. From app stores to platforms to AI assistants, abusing women can never be a business model.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Kountoura, seat 374, please.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ, κυρία Πρόεδρε. Κυρία Επίτροπε, η προστασία των ανηλίκων στο διαδίκτυο αποτελεί ένα από τα πιο κρίσιμα ζητήματα των πολιτών.
Elena Kountoura
Και η προστασία τους από το επιβλαβές περιεχόμενο και τις εθιστικές πρακτικές των πλατφορμών δεν μπορεί να είναι ευθύνη μόνο των γονιών. Οι εταιρείες πρέπει να λογοδοτούν για τον τρόπο που οι αλγόριθμοί τους εκθέτουν τα παιδιά σε επιβλαβές περιεχόμενο και διαφημίσεις, και αν δεν μπορούν να αποδείξουν ότι οι υπηρεσίες τους είναι ασφαλείς, δεν θα πρέπει να τους επιτρέπεται να τις παρέχουν. Για να αντιμετωπίσουμε αυτές τις πρακτικές, απαιτείται να συμπληρωθεί η πράξη για τα παιδιά από μία φιλόδοξη πράξη για την ψηφιακή δικαιοσύνη, να υιοθετηθούν άμεσα δεσμευτικοί κανόνες κατά του εθιστικού και παραπλανητικού σχεδιασμού, να θεσπιστούν ανεξάρτητοι έλεγχοι και αυστηρές κυρώσεις, να υιοθετηθεί ένα ευρωπαϊκό σχέδιο δράσης για την ψυχική υγεία που θα αντιμετωπίζει τον αντίκτυπο των ψηφιακών τεχνολογιών στους νέους και να ενισχυθεί η εκπαίδευση των παιδιών για να μπορούν και να αναγνωρίζουν και να αντιμετωπίζουν τους διαδικτυακούς κινδύνους. Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, and the next speaker will be Ms Brnjac, seat 269, please.
Nikolina Brnjac
Hvala predsjedavajuća. Dakle, ne znam da li smo svi svjesni, ali prema podacima UNICEF-a samo tijekom 2022. godine 1,2 milijun djece prijavilo je zlouporabu seksualnih deepfake sadržaja. Zato njihova zaštita ne može biti odgovornost samo roditelja. Odgovornost moraju preuzeti i digitalne platforme. Trebamo sigurnost po dizajnu, učinkovitu dobnu zaštitu i snažnu provedbu novih pravila koje predlaže Europska komisija Aktom o djeci kojeg snažno podržavam.
Posebno moramo odgovoriti na ovisnički dizajn, štetan sadržaj, cyberbullying i nove rizike koje donosi umjetna inteligencija. Istodobno moramo ulagati u digitalnu pismenost djece, roditelja, ali i nastavnika. Naš cilj ne smije biti udaljiti djecu od tehnologije, nego osigurati da tehnologija radi za njih, a ne protiv njih. Hvala.
Costas Mavrides
Ευχαριστώ κυρία Πρόεδρε. Συζητάμε για προληπτική παρέμβαση για προστασία των παιδιών μας από τους κινδύνους στο ψηφιακό κόσμο, προληπτική παρέμβαση. Ως πατέρας εφήβων σας μεταφέρω την απεγνωσμένη κραυγή των γονιών απέναντι σε φοβερούς κινδύνους εθισμού, ψυχικής και συναισθηματικής υγείας και χειραγώγησης που όλα έχουν στόχο τα παιδιά μας και άλλες δικές τους επιδιώξεις. Και γιατί είναι ευθύνη δική μας να προστατεύσουμε τα παιδιά μας; Γιατί είναι ανήλικα και γιατί οι κίνδυνοι είναι υπαρκτοί.
Και γι' αυτό πρωτοστατώ προσωπικά στην απαγόρευση με θέσπιση ορίου ηλικίας οριζόντια και ταυτόχρονα ανάληψη δράσης από την Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση για υποχρεωτική προσαρμογή των αλγορίθμων από τις διαδικτυακές πλατφόρμες. Οποιαδήποτε ανοχή για τους γονείς ή κηδεμόνες να προσαρμόζουν το ηλικιακό όριο αναλόγως, αυτό τους καθιστά ευάλωτους και τελειώνω.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I do apologize, but it's one minute, please. And now I will give the floor back to the Commission and Executive Vice-President Vercruysse to close the debate, please.
Henna Virkkunen
Thank you very much, Madam Chair, honorable members. Thank you very much for your interventions, and I think it was very good to listen different views expressed today here. And I think that today's debate has shown the determination of this House to make the online world safer place for everybody, but especially for children and generations to come. And many of you underlined how important part of our everyday life digital world is nowadays, and I very much agree on that.
So it's also important to remember all the time, and this is part of our Kids Act, that children, they have also right to be connect with their friends, they have also right to have access to information. And that's why we haven't proposed anything like blanket ban to digital services, but we have proposed here gradual access to really look that the content what the kids are having access to, it's it's age-appropriate for for their age. And especially we are prohibiting harmful practices. And then we are speaking, for example, very excessive screen time, which is very much connected to addictive design of the services. Then also what kind of content is recommended for children, and also who can see their content, who can be in contact with them.
That kind of harmful functionalities and features we have to look when we speak about safety by design. And of course, the the global attention and also European attention has been very much about the age limits. And of course, it's important part of our proposal. And I think it's also very important that we are also able to show that we have age verification tool also, that you can verify your age without giving your personal data for online platforms. And we know that anyone haven't had this.
So those who have been posing age limits in the other countries outside of Europe, they haven't had age verification tool, and it has been, of course, big loophole.
But we have both. But I I would like to underline that the very important part of our e-kids act is exactly what many of you were calling, it's the safety by design. That all the services, all digital services that minors are using, they have to be safety by design. And this is going further, not only covering social media platforms, but also video games and also AI chatbots and companions. And we have very tailor-made list for those services about the do's and don'ts, what kind of practices there shouldn't be and what they should be included to these features to make sure that they are safe by design.
And very big part of this proposal is really that now we are turning this around that really the social media platforms, they have to show beforehand that they are complying with our rules. Because now we have very clear and precise list about the practices what should take a place and what shouldn't take a place when minors are using those services. And some of you asked also that why it's taking so much time to enforce DSA. And of course when we speak about DSA, it's a horizontal legislation covering all digital services and of course we have to respect the legal procedure when we are enforcing the rules. So we have to gather evidence, we have to gather information, we have to have strong legal basis also and we have to respect also due process.
But now we have very precise rules when it comes to protection of minors and we are complementing our DSA. We continue of course enforce DSA all the time, but when it comes to protection of minors, we have very precise rules on that and then they have to come beforehand and show with their compliance plan that how they are changing the design of their service. And we are also launching here this fast process for enforcement only in 90 days because we have also clear list now what we can check if there is the practices in place or not. Thank you very much for everybody for very good contributions for this discussion.
And it's taking time.
Christel Schaldemose
Also a big thanks to you, Executive Vice-President, and to all my colleagues. Thank you for your patience and understanding, but we were running late and therefore I was not able to take all of you. But thank you for participating in this debate. The debate is closed. And then pursuant to Rule 251(4) of the Rules of Procedure, I would like to inform you that there was no request to put to the vote the corrigendum announced in plenary on Monday the 5th of October.
The corrigendum is therefore deemed to have been approved and is published on the plenary webpage. And the next item on the agenda is the report by Ms Vautmans, recommendation on EU-China political relations. And I will start by giving the floor to the rapporteur.
Please, Ms. Vautmans, the floor is yours, four minutes.
Hilde Vautmans
President, dear colleagues, 1 billion euros every day. That was Europe's trade deficit with China last year, and this gap is growing even further. In her State of the Union, President von der Leyen told us that words are good, but deeds are better. And she was right. For too long, we have opened our market without getting the same access in China.
For too long, we have accepted unfair competition while European companies pay the price. And for too long, we have watched China test the limits of international law. Tomorrow, this Parliament can send a clear message: no more dumping, no more spying, and fair competition. But colleagues, this report is not only about China. It's about us, the role Europe wants to play in the world.
So let me ask you one simple question: who are we? Do we open our market of 450 million consumers to cheap Chinese products while China denies our companies the same access?
Do we sanction Russia for its war against Ukraine and then look away when Chinese companies help Moscow sustain its war machine? Do we stand for democracy and human rights but stay silent when Uyghurs and Tibetans suffer? And in a world increasingly shaped by Washington or Beijing, does Europe simply choose sides or do we stand up for our own interests? Colleagues, Europe wants cooperation with China. We want a strong partnership.
We want dialogue and we want to work together wherever we can. But not at any cost. First, our economy. We want fair competition and reciprocity. When China dumps cheap goods on our market, we must use our trade tools.
And when China turns our dependence on critical raw materials into a weapon, we must reduce that dependence. And the momentum is growing, colleagues. France and Germany are now calling for action on the economic imbalances with China.
Commissioner, your colleague, Commissioner Šefčovič, will travel to Beijing on Thursday. Kaja Kallas will meet Wang Yi. And next week, European leaders will discuss China at the European Council. They should all carry the same message, colleagues: no dumping, no spying, no silence. Europe has economic power, it's time we use it.
And second, our security. We will not tolerate Chinese espionage targeting our companies, our institutions, and our critical infrastructure. And we must be clear on Taiwan. Europe stands by its one-China policy and the status quo in the Taiwan Strait. Peace and stability there are a direct European interest.
And third, colleagues, our values. Partnership cannot mean silence, not on the Uyghurs, not on Tibet, not on Hong Kong. Dear colleagues, let me be clear. We do not seek confrontation with China, but we seek a real partnership. And that requires reciprocity, respect, and trust.
As long as those are missing, China remains not only a partner and a competitor, but also a systemic rival.
Colleagues, it has been hard. I want to thank you all. And I look all the colleagues, Michael, Nacho, everybody who worked, Pedro, who worked very hard on this report. It has been a long journey and we did not always agree. But we did what people expect from politicians.
Keep on talking, keep on negotiating and looking for a very good compromise. So tomorrow let us give our Commission, our Member States and our High Representative the backing to act. At the beginning I asked you, who are we? Tomorrow we get to answer it. Let us show China and above all ourselves what Europe is capable of.
Europe has the power, now Europe must have the political will to use it. Thank you very much.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole. A nome della Commissione do ora la parola al Commissario McGrath. Prego.
Michael McGrath
Madam President, honorable members.
Thank you sincerely to the rapporteur, Hilde Vautmans, and all of the members who contributed to the Parliament's report on EU-China relations. Your report accurately captures the complexity of EU-China relations, and it clearly shows the importance of these relations for Europe's security and prosperity. At a time of global challenges, continued dialogue and practical cooperation between the European Union and China are more essential than ever. Honorable members, our trade relationship with China is one of the most significant in the world, but it has become heavily unbalanced. Our trade deficit has reached 1 billion euro a day.
This is unsustainable. China's economic progress is not the problem, and we welcome competition. But when industrial overcapacity and market distortions threaten Europe's industrial base, European jobs, and strategic economic sectors in Europe, we have no choice but to act. That is why we are currently engaged with China to rebalance our economic and trade relations. As I speak, Commissioner Šefčovič is about to travel to Beijing for the trade and investment consultations with his Chinese counterpart.
We are firmly committed to dialogue and finding negotiated solutions, but this dialogue must deliver concrete results.
At the same time, we continue to pursue a European economic security agenda to de-risk and to diversify our economy. To do this, to avoid de-industrialization in the industrial heartlands of Europe, we must use all available tools. And honorable members, when we engage in China, we must engage on what matters to Europe too. China is enabling Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine. Between 80 and 90% of sensitive dual-use goods and advanced technology items reach Russia from or through China.
These items sustain Russia's military industrial base and therefore present an existential threat to Europe's security. In all our engagements with China, yours and ours, we must keep urging China to halt any support that strengthens Russia's military capacities. The report rightly addresses the serious human rights situation in China. As a defender of the rules-based international order, which China is part of, we have a duty to call on China to comply with its obligations under international law and to respect and protect human rights in the country.
This means raising our concerns over systemic human rights violations in Xinjiang, Tibet and Hong Kong, as well as the treatment of human rights defenders across China. Honorable members, to conclude, managing our relationship with China requires both a values-based and interest-driven approach. We must be clear-eyed about the risks and also the challenges. We must be ready to push back when needed, and we must remain open to engage and to cooperate whenever we can. I look forward to your contributions and to having an opportunity to respond later on in the debate.
Thank you very much.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie Commissario, iniziamo il dibattito, prego onorevole Pascual Delaparta. Prego.
Nicolás Pascual de la Parte
Thank you chairwoman and thank you Commissioner. I think that our relationship with China has to be based on some pillars: firmness, transparency, reciprocity, engagement, as you have said. And I think that the report with the recommendations on the EU-China political relations takes stock of that and also show the way to follow in order to have a candid approach to the relations with China. We cannot afford ourselves anymore to be treated as a kind of weak partner.
We have to recognize that China is doing and behaving in a way that is putting in danger our interests, not only in the trade and commerce sector, but in security and defense. If China wants to be a superpower, it has to help to keep peace and security and stability. It's part of being a superpower, and it is not abiding by this principle, sustaining Russia in the war in Ukraine. And it's something we have to raise every time we meet them. Also human rights.
The human rights situation in China has not improved, on the contrary, in the last years, and it has disappeared somehow from our agenda in the last years, to be honest. We have to bring it on top of the agenda in order to remind them that Europe is not only a space of commerce and trade, but also a space of human rights and freedom and liberty. In addition to this, we have to remember that no aggression, no unilateral change of the status quo in Taiwan will be accepted by the European Union. We abide by the One China policy and we will not admit any kind of change through coercion or force. And finally, we have ourselves to do our own homework in order to be more competitive, to engage with China critically and to deal with them as a systemic rival as they are.
Thank you very much.
Good evening everybody.
Lucia Annunziata
I see there Mrs. Hilde Vautmans with whom I've worked almost a year on this. Thank you for, I think you say something very important. This vote tomorrow is going to say not only something about China, but is going to say something about us. The theme about China is what is the best approach. And this is what we'll see tomorrow in the vote.
There is, there are two ways. One is the confrontational approach that is as a result can condemn China to be our systemic rival forever. I speak to Pascal who supported this idea. And in fact, it's the position of the center-right. The other possibility is an articulate approach taking an extreme strong standing on three points: human rights, lack of democracy and military expansion, with I mean Taiwan.
But open a dialogue on the real issue that now is devastating for us, the unbalanced trade relationship that cost EU the loss of one billion euros every day, and Madame Hilde said this before me. I'm in favor of this second approach as has been very clear during this year of the negotiation. A big game is developing, the rapprochement between China and the US.
And if they have EU is left out, it's going to be condemned to be a minor player. Thank you very much.
Juan Carlos Girauta Vidal
Muchas gracias, señora presidenta. Una de las pocas cosas salvables de la anterior legislatura fue el reconocimiento de una realidad: China no es nuestra amiga, sino un riesgo estratégico para Europa. Esa toma de conciencia, plasmada por este Parlamento en sus informes, debe defenderse de los intentos de socavarla procedentes de Pekín. Miren a España. Mientras Europa intenta cerrar la puerta a la influencia china, el obsolescente presidente Sánchez la ha abierto de par en par y el expresidente Zapatero, amigo de la joyería gratis, aparece una y otra vez en contratos, intermediaciones, dinero, investigaciones vinculadas a intereses chinos.
Los hechos se amontonan.
Hemos visto a Zapatero reunido con empresarios chinos en plena tramitación del rescate de la línea Plus Ultra, a Huawei contratando a la empresa de las hijas de Zapatero, millones de euros recibidos por el expresidente y sociedades de capital chino apareciendo en el rastro del dinero, a Sánchez multiplicando sus visitas y servilismo a Xi Jinping. Finalmente, al Gobierno socialista abriendo a Huawei las puertas de un sistema tan sensible como las escuchas judiciales, nada menos, pese a que Bruselas viene advirtiendo del riesgo de injerencia extranjera. ¿Hasta dónde habrán permitido que la voluntad de Pekín penetre en las instituciones y sectores estratégicos? ¿Cuándo dejarán los socialistas españoles de actuar como el caballo de Troya del Partido Comunista Chino?
Mariusz Kamiński
Szanowni państwo, debatując dziś na temat relacji między Unią a Chinami, musimy zawsze pamiętać, jaka jest rzeczywista natura tego państwa. Chiny to komunistyczna totalitarna dyktatura stanowiąca zagrożenie dla wolnego świata. Sprowadzenie relacji z Chinami do pragmatycznych stosunków gospodarczych jest nie tylko cynizmem, ale nieodpowiedzialną głupotą. Chiny zalewają dziś Europę tanimi, dotowanymi przez państwo towarami, niszcząc europejski przemysł i miejsca pracy.
Chińskie technologie wprowadzane do infrastruktury krytycznej stanowią zagrożenie dla naszego bezpieczeństwa. Komunistyczne Chiny wspierają rosyjską agresję na Ukrainę i zapowiadają użycie siły w celu podporządkowania sobie demokratycznego Tajwanu. Chińskie więzienia wypełnione są tysiącami więźniów politycznych. Symbolicznie wymienię nazwiska kilku bohaterów walki o wolność: Jimmy'ego Laia, skazanego na 20 lat za obronę praw mieszkańców Hongkongu, ujgurskiego profesora Ilhama Tohtiego i tybetańskiego Panczenlamę. Komunistyczny aparat państwowy prowadzi politykę przymusowej asymilacji mniejszości narodowych, niszcząc ich wielowiekową tożsamość i kulturę.
Dlatego też domagamy się, aby Chiny respektowały Kartę Narodów Zjednoczonych, Powszechną Deklarację Praw Człowieka i zasady Światowej Organizacji Handlu. To na poszanowaniu tych zasad muszą opierać się nasze relacje z Pekinem.
Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, sehr geehrter Herr Kommissar, wir haben heute einen sehr, sehr wichtigen Bericht zu beschließen, der über die Zukunft der Europäischen Union und vielleicht sogar das ganze Jahrhundert entscheiden wird und auch wegweisend sein wird.
Engin Eroglu
Das Europäische Parlament hat 2025 wieder angefangen eigene Beziehungen zur Volksrepublik China aufzubauen nach vielen Jahren des Stillstands. Ich bin mit sehr vielen Delegationen nach China gereist, wir haben sehr, sehr viele Kollegen, die eigene Kompetenzen aufgebaut haben. Aber was ist das Ergebnis aus diesen vielen Gesprächen? Wir sehen einen Gipfel auch zwischen der Kommission letztes Jahr Costa und Frau von der Leyen in China, großer Gipfel, tolle Bilder, kein Resultat. Alle unsere Delegationsreisen, die nach China geführt haben, haben kein Resultat ergeben.
Und jetzt müssen wir einen Bericht schreiben und der Bericht zeichnet ein Bild ab. China wird mehr und mehr ein systemischer Rivale, nicht weil wir es wollen, weil China innen- und außenpolitisch diese Entscheidungen trifft. Und deswegen müssen wir diesen Bericht so abschließen, wie wir ihn machen. Und Herr Kommissar, ganz, ganz wichtig, wenn wir handlungsfähig werden wollen, müssen wir wettbewerbsfähiger werden. China kennt nur die Sprache der Stärke und nicht die Sprache der Diplomatie.
Vielen lieben Dank.
Madam President, Europe needs a clear and united China policy. Neither naive dependence nor disengagement.
Ville Niinistö
We must cooperate with China where global challenges demand it, especially on issues like climate and biodiversity. But cooperation cannot mean ignoring growing strategic dependencies, unfair economic practices or threats to our security, human rights or democracy. We also know that China poses a long-term threat to democracies if their path to power is not controlled. China's material support to Russia's military industrial complex is already an issue of particular seriousness. Where Chinese entities enable Russia's war of aggression, Europe must be prepared to respond with targeted restrictive measures.
Human rights must remain at the center of our relationship, not be traded away for economic interest, and we also must make sure that green transition strengthens European resilience and strategic autonomy. On Taiwan, we must defend peace, reject coercion and oppose any unilateral change to the status quo. Europe should engage from China from a position of unity, values and resilience, and this report is a good basis for that. Thank you.
Danilo Della Valle
Grazie Presidente, Commissario.
Questo report è per me un'occasione persa, l'ennesima, perché si poteva scegliere la via del dialogo, della cooperazione, del mutuo interesse e invece si è scelto di compiere un suicidio, avallando il volere del padrone statunitense Trump. Devono essere arrivate le chiamate da Washington anche per congratularsi perché negli Stati Uniti non avrebbero potuto scriverla meglio questo questo report. Avete deciso di varcare tutte le linee rosse che che Pechino aveva, arrivando a chiedere addirittura una presenza navale ed esercitazioni congiunte nell'Indo-Pacifico. Non vi basta la guerra per procura in Europa, vogliamo mandare i nostri ragazzi a combattere anche fino a Taiwan, magari? Le esportazioni dell'Unione Europea verso la Cina valgono circa 200 miliardi di euro l'anno ed esiste un potenziale di crescita enorme.
Eppure siete pronti a sacrificare anche il rapporto con un partner commerciale strategico mandando all'aria ogni prospettiva di cooperazione con la nuova via della seta e fingendo di ignorare che i dazi di Trump costano al PIL dell'Europa circa 50 miliardi l'anno. Voi mi sa che la pace non la volete perché questo report lo dimostra, non solo non la volete, ma non la cercate minimamente. Anche nell'ultimo incontro con Trump il presidente Xi ha ribadito che Stati Uniti e Cina devono cooperare, che uno scontro porterà solo svantaggi a entrambi e che si può e si deve evitare la trappola di Tucidide. Pensate di essere trattati alla pari dagli Stati Uniti, ma alla fine hanno deciso di relegarvi al ruolo di abitanti dell'isola di Melo.
Siete persino orgogliosi di poter dimostrare alla potenza dominante la vostra subalternità, a costo di fare poi gli utili idioti di fronte alla storia che avanza. Ancora una volta credo che con questo report si sia fatta la scelta sbagliata. Grazie.
Stanislav Stoyanov
Благодаря, госпожо председател. Икономическите проблеми на Европейския съюз се задълбочават. Решаването им изисква повече прагматизъм и предвидими взаимоизгодни отношения с водещите световни икономически сили. А такива отношения изискват доверие. То се изгражда с диалог и сътрудничество, а не с етикети като системен съперник.
Търговският дефицит на Европейския съюз с Китай вече надхвърля един милиард евро на ден и продължава да расте. Няма да го намалим с нови ограничения върху вноса и икономическо затваряне. Така това все повече напомня икономическата логика на късния Съветски съюз. Китай има право сам да определя своя модел на развитие, както и ние имаме право да защитаваме собствените си интереси. Вместо да идеологизираме отношенията, нека инвестираме в конкурентоспособност, нови логистични връзки през Черно море и Централна Азия и повече възможности за европейския бизнес да достига световните пазари.
Европейският съюз трябва да спре да играе ролята на световен ментор и да започне да защитава икономическите си интереси.
Време за прагматизъм.
Speaker 304
Sehr geehrte Frau Präsidentin, meine sehr geehrten Damen und Herren, wie Kommissionspräsidentin Ursula von der Leyen es vor drei Wochen genau hier im Parlament formuliert hat, die Beziehungen zwischen der Europäischen Union und China, sie stehen an einem kritischen Punkt. Chinesische Überkapazitäten, staatliche Subventionen und ungleiche Wettbewerbsbedingungen setzen unsere Unternehmen unter Druck und gleichzeitig stellen Abhängigkeiten bei kritischen Rohstoffen und Schlüsseltechnologien erhebliche Risiken dar. Es gilt daher, unsere Lieferketten breiter aufzustellen und für einen fairen Wettbewerb zu sorgen, damit wir als Europäer wirtschaftlich handlungsfähig bleiben und uns nicht erpressbar machen lassen. Darüber hinaus muss China seiner internationalen Verantwortung als ständiges Mitglied des Sicherheitsrats der Vereinten Nationen gerecht werden. Peking muss seinen Einfluss auf den Kreml nutzen, um auf ein Ende des Angriffskrieges gegen die Ukraine hinzuwirken.
Ich wünsche Kommissar Šefčovič viel Erfolg bei seinen wichtigen Gesprächen diese Woche in Peking und Hilde Vautmans möchte ich danken für die enormen Bemühungen, diesen Bericht vorzulegen. Vielen Dank.
Nacho Sánchez Amor
Gracias, gracias, presidente. Nos abstuvimos en AFET a pesar de una alineación completa en materia de derechos humanos, protección de nuestra industria y crítica a la relación de China con Rusia en relación con Ucrania. Pero aún pensamos que hay mucho desarrollo de los aspectos críticos y confrontacionales del papel y hay menos desarrollo, solo algunas menciones dispersas, de los aspectos de la relación futura, de los aspectos del engagement del que nos hablaba la Comisión. Como, por cierto, hacen los gobiernos europeos de todos los colores con sus semanales peregrinaciones a Pekín. Y yo creo que es bueno que este Parlamento no parezca estar en otra galaxia política diferente de la Comisión, del Consejo y de los Estados miembros en lo que respecta a China.
Y también evitar, como saben los negociadores y como llevamos diciendo un año, aparecer solo como meros ejecutores de la política china de Estados Unidos. Trump ya está en otra página con China de la que algunas veces se ve aquí en este ambiente.
Yo creo que algunos colegas quieren hacernos más trumpistas con China que el propio Trump. Agradezco la flexibilidad de Gahler y de Bauzmans al examinar estas reservas en esta fase tan adelantada del procedimiento. Gracias.
Pierre-Romain Thionnet
Les relations entre l'Union européenne et la Chine ont été marquées trop longtemps par la naïveté, celle d'un monde qui devait être un marché universel effaçant toutes les passions et toutes les rivalités. Enfin, voici le temps du retour du politique et l'objectif d'un rééquilibrage stratégique. L'ambition est double : mieux se protéger et même riposter, mais sans rompre les relations et le dialogue nécessaire avec Pékin. Une telle stratégie peut être définie comme une stratégie du pare-feu : accéder au marché chinois, accueillir des investissements, mais mettre fin aux dépendances critiques ou aux concurrences déloyales qui menacent des secteurs européens entiers. N'oublions pas aussi de penser dans leur ensemble les enjeux de cette Méditerranée asiatique qui s'étend de Vladivostok à Singapour.
La Chine y est incontournable, mais de nombreux États ont intérêt à ne pas trop dépendre d'elle. C'est notre intérêt mutuel. Comme c'est notre intérêt de penser de manière autonome notre politique, sans suivre aveuglément les orientations de Washington et donc sans nourrir ou renforcer une nouvelle bipolarité du monde.
Je vous remercie.
Grazie onorevole. Prego onorevole Gambino. Prego.
Alberico Gambino
Presidente, commissario, la Cina è un interlocutore con cui dobbiamo dialogare. Ma il dialogo esige reciprocità. Oggi l'Europa denuncia gli squilibri commerciali, le sovracapacità cinesi e le nostre dipendenze strategiche, ma dobbiamo avere il coraggio di riconoscere anche i nostri errori. Per anni l'Europa ha imposto alla propria industria una transizione verde troppo rigida, troppo ideologica e troppo poco attenta alla neutralità tecnologica, mentre altri paesi sostenevano massicciamente le proprie imprese. Abbiamo chiesto alle nostre aziende di correre con pesi alle caviglie e oggi ci sorprendiamo se perdiamo competitività.
Non servono nuovi muri contro Pechino. Serve un'Europa capace di difendere la propria industria, il proprio lavoro e la propria autonomia strategica. Cooperare con la Cina dove è possibile, competere dove è necessario, difenderci dove è indispensabile. L'Europa cerca un partner, non un padrone. Vuole un commercio, non dipendenza.
Offre rispetto, ma pretende rispetto.
E per farsi rispettare dagli altri, deve prima tornare a credere nella propria industria. Grazie.
Pascal Canfin
Merci Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues. Il faut toujours baser nos politiques et nos analyses sur des faits. Les faits sont simples. Selon l'OCDE, 60 % des parts de marché gagnées par les entreprises chinoises sont dues à des sur-subventions publiques. Selon le FMI et la BCE, 15 % de sous-évaluation de la monnaie qui conduit à une sur-compétitivité chinoise qui manipule son cours de change.
Et il y a d'autres faits qui montrent quelque chose d'incontestable. Si nous ne réagissons pas, nous ne pourrons pas faire face au tsunami chinois qui est en train d'envahir l'Europe. Et donc il nous faut réagir. Le Conseil européen dans 15 jours est fondamental. Hier, la France et l'Allemagne, qui n'ont pas toujours été d'accord sur ce sujet, ont publié une position commune.
C'est la base pour trouver un accord aussi dans cette enceinte car un élément fondamental face à la Chine, c'est la solidarité entre nous.
Et je suis persuadé que pour protéger nos industries, pour protéger nos emplois, nous saurons dépasser nos différences et avoir une politique commune face au tsunami chinois. Merci.
Marc Botenga
Merci Madame la Présidente, chers collègues, parfois il est difficile de ne pas s'exaspérer ici parce que je pense qu'en discutant du monde, il faut voir le contexte dans lequel on vit. D'un côté, on a nos relations avec la Russie coupées, Madame von der Leyen vient encore de l'annoncer, d'ici décembre il n'y aura plus de gaz russe qui entrera en Europe malgré la crise de l'énergie. De l'autre, nous subissons au quotidien le chantage des États-Unis qui nous menacent, qui imposent des tarifs douaniers et qui nous vendent très cher leur gaz de schiste. Et tout cela tue notre industrie et fait payer nos citoyens. Et en plus, les politiques libérales que vous avez menées tout au marché fait qu'aujourd'hui l'Europe est en retard technologiquement par rapport à la Chine et les États-Unis.
Nous avons donc besoin de coopération internationale aussi avec la Chine. Prendre ici maintenant un rapport qui ne sert qu'à nous embrouiller avec des partenaires internationaux, ça me semble pas particulièrement fourbe ou intelligent.
Mais vous me dites faut quand même parler démocratie, faut quand même parler espionnage, faut quand même parler droit international. Parlons-en. Mais comment le faire de manière crédible quand nous acceptons de l'espionnage israélien ou états-unien sur notre territoire, quand nous nous taisons quand Trump viole le droit international, quand nous nous taisons quand il y a aucune démocratie dans nos partenaires soi-disant stratégiques comme l'Arabie Saoudite, les Émirats ou le Qatar ? Ce deux poids deux mesures nous casse toute crédibilité et nous casse notre industrie. Merci.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole. Prego onorevole Froelicker. Ricordo a tutti i colleghi di rimanere nei tempi, per favore. Prego onorevole.
Tomasz Froelich
Frau Präsidentin, Europa verliert, China gewinnt. Unser Handelsdefizit gegenüber Peking wächst. Das ist ein Problem. Wer aber China allein zum Sündenbock macht, lenkt vom eigenen Versagen ab. Unsere Produktion geht zurück, die Innovationskraft schwächelt, die Wettbewerbsfähigkeit erodiert.
Diese Schwäche ist hausgemacht. Der Green Deal ist industriepolitischer Selbstmord. Energie immer teurer, Abhängigkeiten immer größer, Bürokratie und Auflagen immer mehr, Fertigung wird verdrängt. Der Green Deal ist nicht Made in China, der Green Deal ist Made in Brussels und er muss weg. Wir brauchen Handelsbeziehungen mit China, die beiden Seiten nutzen.
Ungleichgewichte gehören besser austariert. Was wir nicht brauchen, sind Einmischungen in innerchinesische Angelegenheiten und Eskalationsrhetorik. Konflikte gibt es genug auf dieser Welt. Moralische Belehrungen ersetzen keine kluge Industriepolitik. Zugleich müssen wir Abhängigkeiten abbauen bei seltenen Erden und bei kritischen Rohstoffen.
Diversifizierung und verlässlicher Handel mit China sind kein Widerspruch. Wir haben Stärken, die China interessieren, solange wir sie nicht wegregulieren. Darauf sollten wir eine nüchterne, tragfähige Beziehung aufbauen, nicht aus Naivität, sondern aus Realismus.
Ondřej Dostál
Colleagues, you don't understand China. Over three generations, China has risen from utmost poverty to the most productive nation on earth. China is no longer a copycat. It now files more patents than EU and USA combined. China is also no longer a low-cost workshop.
They sell us electric cars and parliamentary laptops you use, while we sell them pork and soybeans. We used to be, colleagues, a generation ahead. Today, we are a decade behind. But why? Is it because the Chinese leader happened to be smarter than our leaders generated by BlackRock and Rothschild and Goldman Sachs?
Or because EU energy politics is a sabotage and EU's economic diplomacy borders on treason? Or it is, God forbid, because Chinese socialism and planning works? I don't know, but we must ask these hard questions because our voters certainly will.
And we must learn. I suggest to learn also from China by going there like Marco Polo did and as I do. And above all, to learn from our own mistakes. Thank you very much.
Michael Gahler
President, colleagues, China is de facto an indispensable factor in global politics, in global trade and global stability. Our preference is to have best possible relations and have China as a partner in upholding the international rules-based order. Yet the reality is different. On trade we are interdependent, so the WTO rules should apply in the same way. To counter bad practice such as dumping and other unfair competition, I support planned measures to convince China to end such practice.
More and more China has become a systemic rival. I call on Beijing to stop changing the status quo across the Taiwan Strait and to refrain from any hybrid or even hot war scenarios. Nowhere can a bigger power impose their will on a neighboring nation or population that refuses to be ruled by them, not in Kosovo, not in Ukraine, not in Taiwan. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to the impact on the global economy if you go violent against the island.
We are also aware to what extent you support Putin's bloody war against Ukraine. You would better profit from post-war reconstruction if you urge him now to end this illegal war. Thank you.
Antonella Sberna
Mr. Gahler, there is a blue card if you accept it. Please, Mr. Mularczyk, for 30 seconds.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk
Dziękuję bardzo. Panie pośle, dzisiaj debatujemy nad zależnością, brakiem zależności czy równowagi w relacjach Unii Europejskiej i Chin. I widać to gołym okiem, że towary z Chin zalewają rynki Unii Europejskiej, samochody chińskie wypierają samochody europejskie, w dużej mierze niemieckie samochody z rynku europejskich.
Jak pan uważa, czyja to odpowiedzialność jest, że europejskie produkty, europejskie samochody straciły konkurencyjność wobec samochodów i towarów chińskich? Czy to nie jest odpowiedzialność Komisji Europejskiej Ursuli von der Leyen?
Michael Gahler
Well, I think first of all who is responsible for competitiveness is the car producers who have to have a good quality. And if they have a good quality and react to the demands of a certain of a given market, and the demands may be different in China and in US or elsewhere. So I think that is the basis. And then our, when the companies do their job, it's for us politicians to see to it that our market access in China is the same as Chinese products have in ours. So fairness on both sides, that is my response to that.
Thank you.
Bardzo dziękuję za tę odpowiedź. Fundamentalnie się z nią nie zgadzam. To niestety polityka klimatyczna Komisji Europejskiej, przewodniczącej von der Leyen, ale także Niemiec doprowadziła do kryzysu w Unii Europejskiej. I można powiedzieć, że to Niemcy same podcięły sobie gałąź, na której dzisiaj siedzą i z której spadają, bo to przecież niemieckie samochody tracą konkurencyjność w Europie. I nie zastąpi tego umowa Mercosur, panie pośle.
Michael Gahler
Well, the Chinese have their production and their technology developed whether we do it or not. I think we should compete on a fair basis and then we have a good chance to stand the competition.
Speaker 315
Frau Präsidentin, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen. Die entscheidende Frage, die wir mit Blick auf unser Verhältnis mit China beantworten müssen, ist: Hat Europa die Stärke, diese Beziehungen aus eigener Kraft zu gestalten? Dazu müssen wir mit China kooperieren, wo wir überlappende Interessen haben, etwa bei der Bekämpfung des Klimawandels. Dazu gehört, Menschenrechtsverletzungen in Xinjiang, in Hongkong oder in Tibet klar zu benennen. Dazu gehört, unsere ökonomischen Interessen zu verteidigen.
In Deutschland verlieren wir 12.000 Industriearbeitsplätze im Monat wegen des unfairen Wettbewerbs mit China. Chinas Geschäftsmodell ist auf die Verdrängung im Ausland ausgerichtet. Der private Konsum in China zu Hause macht gerade einmal 40 % der chinesischen Wirtschaftsleistung aus.
Deswegen ist es naiv zu glauben, dass Europa diese Auseinandersetzung ohne eigene Schutzinstrumente bestehen kann. Lassen Sie mich klar sein: Dialog ist zentral. Dialog darf aber kein Wartezimmer werden, in dem Europa seine Instrumente aus der Hand legt, während Probleme bestehen bleiben. Lassen Sie mich aber auch klar sein: Rhetorische Aufrüstung bringt nichts. Die Menschen wollen konkrete Resultate statt starken Worten haben.
Es geht darum, ihre Jobs zu sichern. Dankeschön.
Antonella Sberna
Honorable Repasi, there are two blue cards if you accept it. It's okay? Please, Mr. Sieper.
Vielen Dank, Herr Kollege, dass Sie die blaue Karte akzeptiert haben. Immer wenn ich Sie so sprechen höre, dann fühle ich mich an meine goldenen Jahre im Hörsaal erinnert. Sie haben ja in Ihrer Eigenschaft als Professor eine sehr wichtige Frage aufgeworfen und dann sehr detailliert beschrieben, was zur Beantwortung dieser Frage gehört. Jetzt möchte ich Sie aber mal fragen: Hat Europa die Kraft, die Beziehung zu China aus eigener Kraft zu gestalten? Ja oder nein?
Please.
Speaker 315
Nun, Kollege Sieper, es ist immer eine große Freude, Ihre blaue Karte anzunehmen. Ich gehöre ja auch dem linken Teil des Hauses an. Meine Antwort ist hier zu klar: Die Kraft ist da. Die Frage ist: Ist die Stärke auch dazu da? Selbstverständlich.
Europas Stärke war schon immer ihre Innovationsfähigkeit.
Wir haben Schlauköpfe an Universitäten. Wir müssen diesen Schlauköpfen die Möglichkeit geben, sich zu entwickeln und im Wettbewerb zu bestehen. Und ja, das heißt auch, im Wettbewerb zu schützen vor denjenigen, die unfairen Wettbewerb eingehen. Und ja, dafür haben wir Schutzinstrumente in der Hand. Aber ja, wir brauchen auch noch mehr.
Und Deutschland und Frankreich haben hier konkrete Vorstellungen gemacht, die meines Erachtens den Weg dorthin aufzeigen.
Lukas Sieper
Jetzt haben Sie mich ungefragt ins linke Spektrum eingeordnet, und der Kollege Bistron freut sich. Ich bin progressiver und Verfassungspatriot. Das Grundgesetz und die europäischen Verträge, Herr Bistron, die schreiben nun mal eine progressive Werteordnung vor, hat eigentlich nichts mit links oder rechts zu tun. Jedenfalls, Herr Kollege Repasi, ich glaube, Sie haben einen wichtigen Punkt angesprochen. Wir können unsere Beziehungen zu China nur dann selbstbewusst gestalten, wenn wir auch mal eine Linie im Boden ziehen, wenn wir auch mal ernst machen und wenn wir die Chinesen auch mal Konsequenzen spüren lassen.
Glauben Sie, dass die deutsche und die französische Regierung da durchziehen werden?
Speaker 315
Lieber Kollege Sieper, erstmal freue ich mich über die Bekenntnis zum progressiven Verfassungspatriotismus, die ich voll und ganz teile, sowohl mit dem Blick auf das Grundgesetz als auch auf die europäischen Verträge. Zum anderen bin ich fest davon überzeugt, dass die deutsche und die französische Regierung die Kraft haben, das auch durchzusetzen, weil sie ansonsten diese Vorschläge auch gar nicht gemacht hätten.
Antonella Sberna
Thank you. There is the second one from Mr. Oliveira. Please. Please. Okay, sorry.
Perdão.
João Oliveira
Obrigado, Presidente. Senhor Deputado Repasi, registei a sua intervenção, que foi num tom que me parece construtivo relativamente ao tipo de relações que devemos procurar estabelecer com a China, mas essa perspectiva contraria um pouco a perspectiva contrária que ouvimos também nalgumas intervenções hoje neste plenário, que acabam por transportar para a posição da União Europeia argumentos que costumamos ouvir do outro lado do Atlântico, nomeadamente da administração Donald Trump. E a pergunta que lhe faço é como é que pode servir aos povos do espaço da União Europeia ouvirmos repetir na boca da União Europeia as posições que correspondem ao interesse norte-americano?
Como é que a partir de realidades tão distintas, numa lógica de submissão a esse discurso Donald Trump, é possível que os povos da União Europeia construam uma relação saudável com a China na base da cooperação e da partilha e do benefício mútuo das relações comerciais e económicas que devem ser estabelecidas?
Speaker 315
Also der Vorteil dieser Rückfragen ist ja, um Missverständnisse hier mal tatsächlich auszuräumen. Ich habe weder in dieser Debatte noch sonst wo gehört, dass hier irgendeiner Trumpismus hier nachplappern würde, sondern wir definieren unsere europäische Position aus eigener Autonomie und Stärke heraus. Denn was ist falsch daran, Menschenrechtsverletzungen zu benennen? Sie bestehen ganz offensichtlich. Was ist falsch daran, mit China zu kooperieren, wenn wir den Klimawandel bekämpfen wollen?
Und ja, was ist falsch daran, dass Europa seine ökonomischen Interessen durchsetzt, indem es gegen unfairen Wettbewerb entsprechende Schutzinstrumente einsetzt? Das ist eine autonome Selbstdefinition unserer eigenen Politik.
João Oliveira
Obrigado pela sua resposta.
Quero ainda colocar-lhe uma outra questão, também mais concreta, que tem que ver com as relações em termos tecnológicos e de partilha de conhecimento, particularmente em relação às questões da inteligência artificial, onde o avanço chinês é muito significativo, particularmente na comparação com o espaço da União Europeia. Pergunto-lhe: serve alguma coisa aos povos da Europa adotar a União Europeia o discurso confrontacional que adota Donald Trump, ou ficamos melhor servidos se a nossa relação com a China for a de reclamar a partilha do conhecimento científico e tecnológico para que os benefícios possam ser mútuos, não apenas entre esses dois espaços da China e da União Europeia, mas também a nível global?
Speaker 315
Ja, Kollege, da sprechen Sie einen wirklich wichtigen Punkt an. Kollege Sieber hat bereits auf meine eigene wissenschaftliche Herkunft hingewiesen, und in der europäischen Wissenschaftslandschaft ist Kooperation entscheidend, und zwar ohne Denkblockaden und ohne Grenzen. Kooperation mit chinesischen Wissenschaftlerinnen und Wissenschaftlern findet statt an unseren Universitäten. Wir müssen aber auch hier nicht naiv sein. Geistiges Eigentum, das hier entwickelt wird, darf nicht gestohlen werden, damit dementsprechend ein Wissenstransfer stattfindet, der nicht gerecht ist.
Aber mit Scheuklappen sollte man eine Forschungskooperation mit China selbstverständlich nicht angehen, und ist eigentlich auch nicht das, was an europäischen Universitäten stattfindet.
Tisztelt képviselőtársaim, a Kínával szembeni napi egymilliárd euróra rúgó európai kereskedelmi hiány valóban tarthatatlan. A kérdés, hogy mi az okos politika ebben a helyzetben. Ne áltassuk magunkat. Naivitás azt hinni, hogy Kína majd elkezd a mi szabályaink szerint játszani.
Speaker 322
Ugyanakkor nemcsak mi függünk Kínától, nekik is szükségük van például a mi piacunkra. Az Unió nevében eljáró Bizottságnak arra kellene tehát fókuszálnia, hogy érdekelté tegye Kínát a gazdasági pálya kiegyenlítésében. Olyan eszközrendszerrel kellene élni, amely nem rombolja a kínai kapcsolatainkat, nem ideologizál, hanem kölcsönösen előnyössé teszi azokat. Lássuk be, versenyképes európai iparhoz elengedhetetlen a kínai alapanyag, berendezés és beruházás, ezekért pedig globális versenyfutás zajlik. Végezetül felhívom a kelet-közép-európai kollégák figyelmét, hogy fogjunk össze az ipari gyorsító rendelet tárgyalása során, mert félő, hogy Brüsszel keze Nyugat-Európa felé fog hajlani, elég említeni a tegnapi francia-német papírt.
Legyen szó kínai vagy bármilyen más beruházásról, a cél nem lehet a külföldi tőke elrettentése. Köszönöm.
Antonella Sberna
Ms Győri, there is a blue card if you want. Please Mr Szcerba, please.
Michał Szczerba
Szanowna pani przewodnicząca, chciałbym zwrócić uwagę na tę nierówność dwustronnych obrotów handlowych.
Antonella Sberna
You can, you can start again please, because she don't has the translation.
Chciałbym zwrócić uwagę na nierówność dwustronnych obrotów handlowych między krajami członkowskimi a Unią Europejską.
I jeżeli pozwolicie państwo, to przedstawię dane dotyczące mojego kraju, czyli Polski. Import przewyższa eksport w rekordowym stosunku 17 do jednego. Ale chciałbym zwrócić uwagę jeszcze na jedną kwestię. To jest kwestia bezpieczeństwa i kwestia ochrony infrastruktury krytycznej, nad którymi Europa powinna mieć całkowitą kontrolę.
Speaker 322
Tisztelt képviselő úr, nem jól értettem, nem volt benne kérdés, amit elmond. Én pont ezzel kezdtem, hogy tarthatatlan az a kereskedelmi deficit, amelyet valóban Európa felhalmoz. A feladat viszont nem az, hogy jajveszékeljünk, a feladat az, hogy megoldást találjunk. A feladat a Bizottságé, amely kizárólagosan tárgyalhat az Unió nevében. Viszont, hogy naivak ne legyünk, ezt osztom.
De az sem lehet, hogy olyan eszközöket, ezt a hatalmas kereskedelmi fegyvert bevetjük, amivel majd ellehetetlenítjük a kínai kapcsolatokat. Érdekeltté kell tenni Kínát abban, hogy akarjon velünk megfelelőbb megoldások mentén kereskedni. Szerintem van eszköztár, csak arra kell figyelni, hogy a kialakított pálya az ne egyes európaiaknak jobban kedvezzen, mint másoknak. Legyünk ebben szövetségesek. Köszönöm.
Grazie onorevole.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk
Dziękuję panie komisarzu, panie przewodniczący. Sprawozdanie pani poseł Hautmans jest jasnym ostrzeżeniem. Chiny budują systemową zależność Unii Europejskiej w zakresie gospodarki, technologii, ale też samej polityki. I można by rzec wręcz powiedzieć, że to sprawozdanie jest oskarżeniem Komisji Europejskiej o to, że w tym składzie tej przewodniczącej od tylu już siedmiu lat prowadzi politykę, która doprowadziła do takiego uzależnienia Unii Europejskiej od Chin. Po pierwsze rynek samochodowy.
Chińscy producenci wspierani przez państwo i tanią energię zalewają Unię Europejską elektrykami. Zielone szaleństwo Komisji Europejskiej, zakazy silników spalinowych, presja na szybkie elektromobilne cele osłabiło europejski przemysł i otworzyło drzwi na dominację Chin w Unii Europejskiej. Efekt: europejskie fabryki tracą zamówienia, zwalniają pracowników, łańcuchy dostaw uciekają do Azji, a Unia staje się klientem, a nie partnerem. Po drugie ekspansja platform i logistyki. JD.com i inni giganci handlu budują w Europie potężne centra dystrybucyjne, wykupują udziały w portach i terminalach, jak chociażby w Grecji.
Przejmują ostatnie ogniwa łańcuchów wartości. To nie jest wolny rynek, to strategiczne przejmowanie infrastruktury przy bierności Brukseli.
Dziś to Komisja Europejska odpowiada za ten stan Unii Europejskiej. Dziękuję bardzo.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, abbiamo un po' di ritardo, quindi chiudiamo il catch-the-eye. Proseguiamo, prego onorevole Paet, prego.
Urmas Paet
Dear colleagues, China has a special responsibility and an opportunity to help end the war in Ukraine. China is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council and one of Russia's most important economic and political partners. China should therefore use its influence to help bring Russia's aggression against Ukraine to an end. This also means taking a very concrete step: China should not sell or provide Russia with goods, components or technologies that can be used in its war against Ukraine. If China wants to contribute to peace, it should ensure that its trade does not help Russia continue the war.
China should also respect human rights and release people imprisoned for defending human rights. Among them is Ilham Tohti, who was awarded the European Parliament's Sakharov Prize in 2019.
He is serving a life sentence and his family has not been allowed to visit him since 2017. Thank you.
Željana Zovko
Thank you President. The EU and China relations stand at a critical point. Our trade deficit with China amounts to around 1 billion euros a day. Unfair competition and industrial overcapacity put European businesses and jobs under pressure. We need fairer trade, stronger European industry and less dependence in strategic sectors.
The EU must equip itself with effective instruments to respond when trade is used as a weapon, matching the leverage that United States derives from its tariffs and China from its control over critical mineral exports. I strongly condemn China's support for Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine. By supplying dual-use goods and helping Russia circumvent sanctions, China enables this war to continue. This assistance must stop.
In the Western Balkans, China's growing presence in infrastructure and raw materials underlines why enlargement matters. We must offer our partners a credible path to EU membership. Otherwise, we risk leaving a vacuum that actors such as China will fill. Our response must combine engagement with de-risking, protection of our industries and a firm defense of our democratic values. Thank you.
Chloé Ridel
Chers collègues, il y a 25 ans, la Chine était autorisée à entrer dans l'Organisation mondiale du commerce alors qu'elle n'en a jamais depuis respecté aucune règle. Et le résultat est aujourd'hui devant nos yeux, l'industrie européenne se décime peu à peu, notre déficit commercial, vous l'avez dit Madame la rapporteure, avec la Chine est d'un milliard d'euros par jour. Alors pendant que nous parlions à l'époque d'avantages comparatifs et autre langage de la doxa libérale, la Chine développait tous les avantages à la fois, les coûts, la technologie, les matières premières, les infrastructures et le tout soutenu par un État qui subventionne et protège ses intérêts stratégiques, quitte à vendre à perte pour mieux liquider la concurrence comme c'est le cas de 26 % des entreprises chinoises qui exportent en Europe. La Chine déploie une stratégie de maximalisme industriel qui vise à rendre le reste de la planète dépendante de ses exportations et nous sommes bêtement tombés dans le piège, nous en payons aujourd'hui le prix en termes d'emplois, de revenus, de souveraineté. Le problème n'est pas que la Chine soit devenue puissante mais que l'Europe ne soit pas capable de défendre ses intérêts.
Nous pouvons encore changer cela en protégeant notre marché, en investissant dans les secteurs stratégiques, en réservant nos marchés publics aux produits fabriqués en Europe. Il ne s'agit pas d'entrer en confrontation avec la Chine, mais de cesser de subir, et c'est ce que les Européens attendent.
András László
Abszurd, hogy az Európai Parlament egy része Kínától várja, hogy megoldja Európa problémáit. Nézzük a tényeket. Kína GDP-je már majdnem az EU-éval egyenlő. Az olló folyamatosan zárult az elmúlt 15 évben. Kínában olcsóbb az áram, több az ipari robot, több az új mesterséges intelligencia befektetés és szabadalom, és ami ma Európának leginkább fájó, rohamosan növekszik a kínai autók részesedése a világpiacon.
A kétoldalú kereskedelem pedig napi 1 milliárd eurós deficitet mutat Európa kárára. Ha előre tekintünk, aligha várható trendforduló. Kína gazdasága meg fogja előzni az Európai Unióét. Ne áltassuk magunkat. Ne bűnbakot keressünk.
Az EU gazdasági gyengeségét nem Kína okozza, hanem EU-s szabályoknak köszönhető. Csak Európa fog kiállni európai érdekeiért. De a politikai és kereskedelmi érdekeinket csak úgy tudjuk megvédeni, ha előbb rendbe tesszük az európai gazdaságot. Vissza kell nyesni az iparellenes zöld szabályokat és a vállalkozásokat fojtogató adminisztratív terheket. Csak így maradhat Európa érdemi szereplő a világban.
Antonella Sberna
Mr. László, there are two blue cards. First one, Mr. Sieber, please.
Lukas Sieper
Thank you, dear colleague, that you accepted the blue card. You talked about the need to deregulate. And you talked about the success of China. And you talk often about deregulation and rules, and then you always talk about the Green Deal. I have a few numbers for you.
China is responsible for 60% of the extension of renewable energies in 2025. In 2024, 61% of the global solar excess is coming from China, and China is the only world power who actually sticks to its climate goals. So how do you bring this together with all this hate against climate protection policies if you are so astonished by China's economic success? Thank you.
András László
China is investing everything it can into getting cheap energy and getting all the resources it needs to develop its industry and its economy. It's what it's doing. We are limiting ourselves ideologically based on what kind of energy we want, what kind of manufacturing we want, whether it's sustainable or not. If you listen to any of the AI speeches of the European Commission or many people in this house, you will see it paired with sustainability. Having the best technology, having cheap energy is not merely or not the first aspect should not be sustainability.
Please.
Lukas Sieper
I will not pose a question. I will just tell you something as someone who is I think way younger than you am. Sustainability is the most important thing above everything all else because when you, and I don't mean this with any harm, but when you are long dead, I still have to live in this world. And I want a world that I can live in and not just a world where we had the best economy on the planet. Thank you.
András László
There was no question, but let me tell you something. I understand that for many people the green marketing of the last decades is very strong and has its effect.
The truth is, when there was the race for nuclear weapons and nuclear technology, the only thing that mattered is who gets it first. The same competition goes on in other technologies, including now with AI and technology. Whoever is first, whoever has the best tech, whoever has the cheapest energy will dominate. I'm sorry to ruin your dreams.
Sakis Arnaoutoglou
Λοιπόν, καλησπέρα μαζί είχαμε πάει στην Κίνα και είδαμε αυτά που είπατε σωστά είναι το αν θέλετε να επαναλάβω στα ελληνικά. Μαζί λέω είχαμε πάει στην Κίνα και είδαμε από κοντά το τι συμβαίνει. Με ακούτε κανονικά;
Sakis Arnaoutoglou
Ναι, λέω ότι είχαμε πάει μαζί σε αποστολή στην Κίνα και είδαμε μαζί από κοντά αυτά που είπατε πάνω κάτω συμφωνώ. Και είπατε ότι προηγείται βιομηχανικά η Κίνα σε ρομπότ, σε επενδύσεις, στην τεχνητή νοημοσύνη. Εγώ θέλω να σας ρωτήσω όμως εσάς, θα στηρίξετε μια κοινή ευρωπαϊκή χρηματοδότηση για να καλύψουμε αυτό το χάσμα;
Και αν όχι, γιατί είμαι σίγουρος ότι θα πείτε όχι, πώς θα ανταγωνιστούν αποτελεσματικά την Κίνα τα ευρωπαϊκά κράτη, το καθένα μόνο του, το οποίο εσείς στηρίζετε; Ευχαριστώ.
András László
I think we agree. I think we need to have a strong, that's what I'm, that's the argument I was making, we need to have a strong European economy. It is through allowing, through cheap energy, through lower regulations, etc., that we allow private investors to invest more in Europe. So that it's not the European Union who has to spend more or the states that need to spend more on new technology and on research and development. But if we have business-friendly rules, we have research and development-friendly rules, little regulation on businesses and cheap energy, then they will invest privately themselves and then that we can better compete with China, exactly.
Sakis Arnaoutoglou
Περίμενα ακριβώς αυτή την απάντηση, αλλά εδώ μας δώσατε για μια ακόμη φορά ως ακροδεξιό κόμμα την απάντηση την οποία χρειάζεται ο κόσμος να ακούσει. Αυτά είναι υποθετικά. Τώρα τι κάνουμε; Αλλά πάλι δίνετε υποσχέσεις, λύσεις, εξωραΐζετε τα πράγματα χωρίς να δώσετε πραγματικά την απάντηση στον κόσμο που χρειάζεται.
Όλα αυτά που είπατε δεν έδωσαν καμία απάντηση στην ερώτησή μου. Ευχαριστώ.
András László
High energy prices in Europe, overregulation of businesses are not hypotheticals, they're not theoretic. They were all featured in the Draghi report two years ago on which we delivered almost nothing. How do we expect to have more European competitiveness economically if we're saying that well, we don't actually need to change all the rules or any of the rules that we already have? We need to undo red tape, we need to undo green tape and even if some members in this house don't like it, that's what we defend. This is not a matter of political ideology either.
This is ask the businesses what is wrong, why they don't invest more in Europe and why they take their investments elsewhere. They take manufacturing to China, they take new businesses to United States. That's the truth. We need to change that. Thank you.
Bert-Jan Ruissen
Dank u wel voorzitter, beste collega's. In dit China-debat vraag ik uw aandacht voor de Zion Eight. Acht christenen die sinds oktober vorig jaar in China vastzitten.
Onder erbarmelijke omstandigheden in overbevolkte detentiecentra met gebrekkige medische zorg en harde disciplinaire maatregelen. En waarom? Alleen maar omdat zij hun geloof uitoefenden en online erediensten organiseerden. En zij zijn niet de enige. Christenen worden in China zwaar vervolgd.
Religieuze gemeenschappen moeten zich onderwerpen aan de ideologie van de Communistische Partij, doen ze dat niet, dan wordt hen het leven bijzonder moeilijk gemaakt. Voorzitter, wij mogen hier niet over zwijgen, ook vandaag niet. Ik roep de Raad en de Commissie daarom op bij China aan te dringen op spoedige vrijlating van de Sion Acht en ook andere individuele gevallen aan te blijven kaarten. Met fundamentele vrijheden zoals de vrijheid van geloof mag geen loopje worden genomen, dat moet het uitgangspunt blijven, ook in de relatie met China.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, prego onorevole Picierno, prego. Annunciamo la chiusura delle blue card perché siamo molto molto in ritardo.
Pina Picierno
Sì, grazie Presidente, care colleghe e cari colleghi, il rapporto sulla Cina che voteremo domani, per cui voglio ringraziare la relatrice Hautmans per l'ottimo lavoro, ci pone davanti ad una questione che riguarda direttamente il futuro della sovranità europea. Non possiamo essere una potenza economica dipendente da altri per le tecnologie, per le materie prime, per le catene del valore che determinano la nostra sicurezza. E autonomia strategica europea significa anche assumere una posizione chiara su quella che è la sicurezza internazionale. La pace nello stretto di Taiwan non è una questione secondaria, non è una questione lontana, riguarda certamente la stabilità dell'Indo-Pacifico, ma anche le nostre economie e l'ordine internazionale che è fondato sulle regole. L'Unione Europea deve sostenere quindi lo status quo garantendo a Taiwan il diritto di vivere in sicurezza e il diritto di vivere senza minacce.
Difendere questo diritto significa anche difendere un principio, e cioè che nessuna potenza può decidere in modo unilaterale il destino di un popolo attraverso la forza. E la sovranità europea comincia qui, dalla capacità di scegliere con chi cooperare, da chi e da cosa dipendere e soprattutto quali sono i principi che noi non siamo disposti a negoziare. Grazie.
Francisco José Millán Mon
Grazie onorevole.
Gracias presidenta. El ascenso de China como gran potencia económica, política y militar es el hecho más importante de los últimos treinta años en el mundo. Son muchos los desafíos globales que requieren la cooperación de China: cambio climático, pandemias, gobernanza de los océanos y, desde luego, la paz. Pero nuestras relaciones económicas y comerciales con China pasan por una situación realmente difícil. Como ya se ha repetido muchas veces hoy, el déficit comercial con China crece en más de mil millones de euros cada día.
Totalmente inaceptable. Espero que la próxima reunión entre el vicepresidente Šefčovič y el ministro chino de comercio, creo que este jueves, produzca resultados concretos. Si no disminuye pronto el déficit tendremos que tomar más medidas. La industria europea está realmente en juego. Además hay que reducir nuestra dependencia en materias críticas diversificando las fuentes de suministro, de ahí la importancia de acuerdos como Mercosur, Australia, el futuro con la India.
Termino, es lamentable, tengo que repetirlo, la cooperación sin límites entre China y Rusia pactada precisamente antes del inicio de la guerra contra Ucrania.
China, termino presidenta, debe utilizar su influencia sobre Moscú para contribuir a una paz justa y duradera y poner fin cuanto antes al suministro de recursos a la industria militar rusa. Gracias.
Javi López
Muchas gracias presidenta. Muchas gracias comisario. Europa necesita una política hacia China eficaz en la defensa de nuestros intereses. No una lógica de confrontación que alivie nuestras ansiedades económicas o electorales pero que acabe perjudicándonos. Tenemos sin duda desequilibrios comerciales insostenibles que corregir.
Dependencias que reducir. Y al mismo tiempo diferencias que tratar. Pero firmeza no es confrontación. Significa reciprocidad, defender nuestra industria y nuestras capacidades estratégicas y al mismo tiempo apostar por el diálogo, la cooperación y la negociación como está haciendo hoy la Comisión Europea. Pero nuestras relaciones con China no pueden estar basadas en una lógica de un mundo de dos bloques, bipolar, contraproducente y peligroso.
O al mismo tiempo olvidar que cualquier gran desafío en el mundo, la gobernanza económica, el multilateralismo, el cambio climático necesita de cooperación entre China y Europa. Seamos estratégicos.
Necesitamos reequilibrio, reciprocidad y firmeza, sí, pero no una espiral de confrontación o una guerra comercial que no interesa a nadie.
Angéline Furet
Le rapport Vautmans illustre notre soumission à Pékin par les chiffres. La Chine contrôle déjà 50 % de la construction navale et captera bientôt 45 % de la production industrielle mondiale. Nous avons organisé notre propre vulnérabilité. L'Agence internationale de l'énergie nous prévient : une simple coupure des exportations chinoises d'aimants permanents coûterait 3 500 milliards de dollars par an à nos économies. Et face à ce chantage, vous regardez ailleurs.
Vous appliquez un cordon sanitaire implacable contre l'opposition souverainiste dans cet hémicycle, mais vous rampez face à la concurrence déloyale chinoise. Pour retrouver notre souveraineté, passons aux actes. Imposons des clauses miroirs strictes sur nos importations, instaurons la préférence nationale et européenne dans nos marchés publics et libérons nos usines de votre écologie punitive. C'est la seule voie. Je vous remercie.
Reinhold Lopatka
Thank you.
Europe's relationship with China has become deeply unbalanced. In 2022, the EU recorded a trade deficit with China of almost 360 billion. European companies continue to face barriers to the Chinese market, while subsidized Chinese products benefit from broad access to ours. This is not fair competition, not at all. Europe must demand reciprocity and defend its industries against distortive subsidies, economic coercion, and strategic dependencies.
My concerns go far beyond trade. China has become a key enabler of Russia's war effort. China's systematic repression and fundamental freedoms cannot be ignored. Our economic interests must never buy our silence on human rights.
The next speaker is Sakis Arnaoutoglou.
Sakis Arnaoutoglou
Κύριε Πρόεδρε, η Ευρώπη απέναντι στην Κίνα δεν χρειάζεται ούτε φοβικά σύνδρομα ούτε στρατηγικές εξαρτήσεις.
Χρειάζεται αυτοπεποίθηση σίγουρα, καθαρούς κανόνες και δική της φωνή. Η Ευρώπη οφείλει να είναι ξεκάθαρη στα ανθρώπινα δικαιώματα, στην υπεράσπιση του διεθνούς δικαίου, στη στήριξη της Ουκρανίας και στην προστασία της οικονομίας από αθέμιτες πρακτικές και επικίνδυνες εξαρτήσεις. Αλλά χρειάζεται και κάτι ακόμη. Χρειάζεται στρατηγική ψυχραιμία. Δεν χρειαζόμαστε έναν νέο ψυχρό πόλεμο ούτε μια Ευρώπη εγκλωβισμένη στη λογική δύο αντίπαλων στρατοπέδων.
Η Κίνα είναι ανταγωνιστής και συστημικός αντίπαλος σε κρίσιμα πεδία, αλλά παραμένει και αναγκαίος συνομιλητής σε παγκόσμιες προκλήσεις. Η Ευρώπη δεν μπορεί να είναι ούτε δορυφόρος της Ουάσινγκτον ούτε όμηρος του Πεκίνου. Χρειάζεται να έχει δική της και αυτόνομη πολιτική. Μια πολιτική που να συνομιλεί χωρίς να υποχωρεί, να συνεργάζεται χωρίς να εξαρτάται και να υπερασπίζεται τις αξίες της χωρίς να κλείνει τις πόρτες του διαλόγου. Ευχαριστώ.
Isabel Wiseler-Lima
La Chine n'est pas naïve, nous ne pouvons nous le permettre non plus. Chacun sait ce que l'autre a à offrir et ce qu'aucun des deux n'est prêt à abandonner, ce qui implique que certaines coopérations seront possibles, d'autres non. La Chine ne partage pas nos valeurs essentielles.
Pour nous, les libertés fondamentales sont inaliénables. Elles font partie de la dignité humaine et les droits humains définissent qui nous sommes. Nos échanges commerciaux sont profondément déséquilibrés. Un milliard d'euros de déficit par jour, faute d'une concurrence équitable, cela doit changer. Et un point décisif : l'Ukraine.
Les trois quarts des biens critiques que la Russie importe pour sa guerre viennent de Chine : microélectronique, machines-outils, moteurs, fibres optiques. Or, on les retrouve dans les drones qui frappent Kiev. La Chine est devenue la principale voie de contournement de nos sanctions. Pékin ne peut se dire neutre et équiper l'agresseur. L'avenir de nos relations avec la Chine se joue aussi en Ukraine.
Merci.
Thank you. The next speaker is Kristian Vigenin.
Kristian Vigenin
Our relations with China cannot be reduced to a choice between confrontation and complacency. Europe must be firm where our interests and values are at stake, on human rights, fair competition and the protection of our industrial base. But firmness should not mean closing the door to dialogue.
China is simply too important a global actor for Europe not to engage. We need an autonomous European approach, principled, realistic, and based on our own interests, rather than automatically following the policy of others. This means being clear about our differences, while also identifying areas where cooperation can deliver concrete results. Artificial intelligence is one of those areas. The EU and China are major actors in AI development, and we have a shared interest in discussing safety standards, transparency, and responsible use.
We both support the rules-based international order and the strong role of UN, for example. This logic should guide our wider relationship. Europe should therefore be open, independent, and constructive. Our draft report sounds like a declaration of war. It cannot be repaired, and I ask you to vote it down.
Thank you.
The next speaker is Wouter Beke.
Wouter Beke
Dank u voorzitter, collega's, als het over China gaat, dan zien we telkens hetzelfde ook vandaag terug in het debat. De ene zegt, ja, we moeten sterker optreden, strenger optreden en de ander die zegt we moeten de deur openhouden voor extra investeringen of handel. Maar er is een simpele realiteit en die realiteit is dat tegenover China we allemaal bijzonder kwetsbaar zijn. En daarom moeten we niet alleen in Europa samenwerken, maar moeten we ook met andere strategische partners samenwerken, zoals Canada, Noorwegen, Japan, Zuid-Korea, Australië, Nieuw-Zeeland. Ik heb eerder al gepleit voor een D9.
En naar analogie met artikel 5 van de NAVO zouden we een economisch artikel 5 moeten hebben, dat we met al deze land samen afspreken. Economische dwang tegen ons, tegen één van ons moet een krachtig antwoord krijgen door ons allemaal. Want als China grondstoffen, subsidies, overcapaciteit en markttoegang gebruikt als dwang, dan gaat dat over onze ondernemingen, onze bedrijven, onze jobs en onze welvaart. It is time to act. Dank u.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much. We now come to the catch-the-eye and as we are already late in time, I just can take a few. So I first start with Dariusz Joński.
Dariusz Joński
Bardzo dziękuję, pani przewodnicząca, panie komisarzu. Wszyscy wiemy, że roczna, roczny deficyt w handlu z Chinami to już jest prawie 360 miliardów euro. Miliard euro dziennie, to jest ogromna kwota i wiemy doskonale, że to jest efekt chińskiej nadprodukcji. Produkują dużo i wysyłają do nas wszystko, wszystko co produkują, za wyjątkiem może silników samolotowych, bo tego jeszcze nie produkują, chociaż z naciskiem na jeszcze.
Zbyt długo mieliśmy otwarte drzwi. Trzeba powiedzieć dość, stop i trzeba zacząć chronić europejski rynek. Dlatego powinniśmy szybko reagować na dumping. Musimy wymagać wzajemności, jeśli ich firmy w Europie, to nasze muszą być aktywne w Chinach i chronić, chronić strategiczne sektory przemysłu. Jutro podczas tego ważnego głosowania możemy wszyscy, wszyscy na tej sali po prostu skończyć z dumpingiem.
A to jest bardzo ważne dla ochrony miejsc pracy, dla ochrony zakładów, dla ochrony europejskiego przemysłu. Bardzo dziękuję.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you, the next speaker is Tobiasz Bocheński. Is not there? Ah, there, okay.
Tobiasz Bocheński
Thank you, madam. Szanowni państwo, to jest oczywiste, że Europa musi być asertywna wobec Chin i walczyć o swoje interesy. Tylko dlaczego na tej sali dzisiaj politycy rządzący Unią Europejską nie stawiają fundamentalnego pytania, jak to się stało, że mamy do czynienia z takim deficytem handlowym? Jak to się stało, szanowni państwo, że w roku 2005 Chiny miały udział w globalnej produkcji przemysłowej 9%, Unia miała 24, a dzisiaj Chiny mają 28-32, Unia 17?
To jest dowód klęski modelu gospodarczego zaimplementowanego w Unii Europejskiej przez rządzących socjalistów i zielonych i Europejską Partię Ludową. Europa dzisiaj jest chorym kontynentem na świecie. Nie mieliście pretensji do Chińczyków, kiedy została przeniesiona produkcja z Europy do Chin i chińskie dzieci pracowały na wasz dobrobyt. Ale dzisiaj macie wielki problem, ponieważ nie chcecie zreformować Unii, tylko chcecie przepychać jakieś idiotyczne zielone łady, które doprowadzą do tego, że jeszcze będziemy biedniejsi w stosunku do Chin za 10 lat.
Arba Kokalari
Thank you, Vice-President and colleagues. China has more than 70% of the GenAI patents while Europe only has 2%, and we only have 5% of the global AI computing capacity comparing to China. We're all complaining here in this room about China, but we need to stop being naive. Europe needs to wake up.
Not only because we're dealing with the world's biggest communist regime, but also we need to wake up and do our own homework. Invest in AI, cut the bureaucracy and overregulation, make sure that European businesses can really take the competitiveness of the global tech race. And I'm also very upset about the socialists and social democrats in these rooms who don't want a critical China report, who wants China as a strategic partners. How can you be soft on the world's biggest communist regime? How can you be soft on a country that is destroying European markets by dumping their prices with Temu and Shein with their illegal products?
Thank you. The next speaker is Petr Bystron.
Petr Bystron
Dankeschön Frau Präsidentin. Ja, liebe Kollegen, es wird hier das Handelsdefizit mit China beweint und in vielen Reden kritisiert. Dabei jahrzehntelang war das genau umgekehrt und das hat niemanden gestört. Und da muss man sich fragen, warum ist das jetzt plötzlich anders und wann ist das eingetreten? Und das ist Ende der 90er und jetzt beschleunigt sich das.
Und nicht deswegen, weil die Arbeiter in China jetzt plötzlich besser geworden sind wie die Arbeiter in Deutschland, sondern weil hier die Rahmenbedingungen schlechter wurden und China setzt alles daran, wettbewerbsfähiger zu sein. Sie fördert Atomindustrie, Atomenergie, günstige Energie für die Produktion. Sie fördert ihre Hochtechnologien und hier werden bürokratische Hürden für die Industrie geschaffen, der unsinnige Green Deal und ähnliches. Und das haben die polnischen Kollegen hier treffend kritisiert, gerade bei dem Kollegen Gahler, dass hier das Haus, Kollege Gahler ist hier seit 27 Jahren mitverantwortlich, dass dieses Haus dafür verantwortlich ist. Und der Gahler ist geflüchtet, hat sich gedrückt vor dieser Antwort.
Man kann hier aus dem Haus flüchten, aber Sie können sich nicht vor der Verantwortung drücken.
Sabine Verheyen
Persönliche Attacken halte ich immer für ausgesprochen schwierig, wenn die Person nicht da ist. The next speaker is Miriam Lexmann, please.
Miriam Lexmann
Ďakujem za slovo. Kolegovia, keď som pred rokmi upozorňovala na hrozby vyplývajúce z našej závislosti na Číne, mnohí moje varovania považovali za prehnané. Úprimne, dnes by som bola rada, keby som sa vtedy mýlila. Čoraz častejšie a čoraz viac ľudí, našich firiem priamo pociťuje, akú cenu platíme za závislosť, ktorú sme si sami vytvorili. Čínske neférové praktiky ohrozujú naše podniky a pracovné miesta.
Dominantné postavenie Číny v oblasti kritických surovín dáva Pekingu nástroj na vydieranie našich krajín. Vítam, že sa Európa konečne prebúdza a začína konať.
Obávam sa však, či už nie je neskoro. Musíme preto dôsledne využiť nástroje na ochranu obchodu a posilniť spoluprácu s dôveryhodnými a demokratickými partnermi. Zároveň potrebujeme zjednodušiť pravidlá a vytvoriť priaznivé podnikateľské prostredie. Nesmieme čakať, kým sa zatvoria ďalšie firmy alebo ďalší ľudia prídu o prácu. Peking alebo kým Peking zase využije našu závislosť na svoje neférové praktiky.
Našou povinnosťou je chrániť naše hospodárske záujmy, lebo presne to od nás ľudia očakávajú. Ďakujem.
Thank you very much. I really beg the people to the colleagues to stay with the one minute because we are already late and if everyone takes more time we will be too too much delayed for the next debate. I take a last one to be in balance Vytenis Andriukaitis.
Vytenis Povilas Andriukaitis
Dėkoju gerbiama posėdžio pirmininke, gerbiamas komisare.
Išties išsakyta be galo daug įvairių argumentų, bet vienaip ar kitaip Europos Sąjunga yra stiprus žaidėjas. Mes esame stiprūs net ir žinant, kad Kinija prekiauja būtent su mūsų rinka ir skaičiai importo-eksporto balanso rodo jos didelį interesą, bet ji taip pat nuo mūsų priklauso. Kita vertus, akivaizdu, kad mums neišpasakytai svarbu šiandien matyti didžiulį aplinkui globalinį vaizdą ir Briks šalis, kurios sudaro aplink Kiniją Šanchajaus bendradarbiavimo organizaciją, šiandien iš tikrųjų turėtų būti mums labai akivaizdžių diplomatinių uždavinių ten veikti ir žiūrėti, kaip keisti Kinijos įtaką tam didžiuliam aljansui. Neabejotinai, kad mes turime būti ypatingai jautrūs dėl sudėtingos situacijos dabar Persijos įlankoje ir taip pat labai sudėtingos dėl Rusijos. Mes turime Kiniją atitraukti nuo Rusijos.
Thank you. I pass the floor to our Commissioner Michael McGrath, please, for one and a half minute.
Michael McGrath
Thank you very much, President, and thank you to all of the honorable members for your contributions. The contributions we have heard reflect the complexity of the EU-China relationship. Your draft report gives this House a clear and credible voice on China.
It underlines the importance of continuous dialogue between the EU and China. Yes, we must preserve space for dialogue, including on issues such as the rebalancing of our economic relationship, and I underline again that dialogue must lead to concrete results. Dialogue also on issues where positions can converge, for example, on the Middle East. And yes, we need to cooperate where we can to tackle the global challenges of our time, including climate change. And many of you have underlined, and I agree with you, how important it is that the EU, its institutions, and its member states are united and that we jointly pursue a coherent and a coordinated approach.
Many of you have also made the point about ensuring that we have our own house in order, and I agree with you. It's essential that we continue to strengthen our competitiveness, reduce our dependencies, and that we build our resilience and our security. We have not had enough time to address many of the other issues that are set out within your report, and hopefully there will be an opportunity to do so. So let me suggest that we continue our exchanges.
The EU-China relations will continue to be a crucial topic in exchanges among EU foreign affairs ministers and with key partners. Thank you, colleagues, and thank you once again to Hilde Vautmans for the report and for all of those who have contributed to its work. Thank you.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much. And now I pass the floor to the rapporteur, Hilde Vautmans.
Hilde Vautmans
Thank you very much, Commissioner, for the nice words and for the support of this report. And thank you, colleagues, for this debate. I think I can conclude by saying that we have heard different views today. There were, of course, some critical voices while others focused more on partnership and cooperation. And these views do not have to contradict each other, colleagues.
China is a key partner. We should work together where we can on climate, trade, global security, and keep the door open for dialogue. I saw how important this is during the AFET mission to China in July. But the partnership also requires change. Colleagues, tomorrow we vote on this report, and on Thursday, Commissioner Šefčovič travels to Beijing.
I want him to go there with the strongest possible mandate from this House.
And Europe should expect concrete results. First, China must address our growing trade imbalance, including the dumping that hurts European jobs. Second, we need reliable access to critical raw materials. Third, we need reciprocity. If Chinese companies have access to our single market, European companies deserve the same opportunities in China.
And this is not, colleagues, about closing the door to China, but Europe should remain open without being naive. And with France and Germany now calling for stronger action, Europe is starting to speak with one voice on China. So Commissioner Šefčovič, I hope Commissioner McGuinness you will give him this message, go to Beijing with European Parliament behind you and make Europe's voice count, because that's what our citizens expect from us. And colleagues, I really hope tomorrow for a broad support of this House. And again, thank you very much for collaborating on this report, also to the President of the EU-China delegation, Mr. Engin, who really worked very hard.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much. Die Aussprache ist hiermit geschlossen. Die Abstimmung findet wie gerade schon von der Berichterstatterin verkündet morgen statt. Als nächster Punkt der Tagesordnung folgt die Erklärung der Vizepräsidentin der Kommission und Hohen Vertreterin der Union für Außen- und Sicherheitspolitik zum Thema die undemokratischen Wahlen zur russischen Staatsduma im Jahr 2026 und ihre Auswirkungen auf die Zivilgesellschaft. Und ich gebe das Wort direkt, eine Minute durchatmen, an die Hohe Vertreterin und Vizepräsidentin im Namen der Kommission.
Bitteschön, Frau Kallas.
Kaja Kallas
Dear President, honorable members. Just over two weeks ago, Russia organized sham elections. The only anti-war party was banned from participating. Putin did not allow OSCE observers in for monitoring and refused independent assessment of the results. There was zero tolerance for dissent.
So of course, the outcome was never in doubt.
Putin's party, United Russia, created somewhere between 14 and 20 million artificial votes for itself. United Russia has brought the Russian people higher food prices, internet blackouts, gasoline shortages, and 40,000 Russian war casualties per month. The only way this party could win enough votes is by rigging the game. Putin's regime also grossly violated Ukraine's sovereignty and international law by holding sham elections in the occupied territories. Ukrainian citizens were coerced into showing up at the polls.
Armed soldiers watched over people dropping their ballots in the box. The European Union is united in condemnation of Russia's sham elections. They were an insult to Ukraine, to the Russian people, and to democracy itself. Honorable members, Putin uses sham elections in occupied territories to sell the world a false narrative that these territories are now part of Russia. In a blatant breach of norms of international law, sham elections are an attempt to legitimize colonization.
Crimea and Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia are part of Ukraine. European Union is currently preparing sanctions on those involved in the organization of the sham elections and those who stood as candidates for Russia in occupied Ukraine. We call on others to do the same. Honorable members, Russian government hates democracy. The regime has steadily cut off access to civil society organizations that nurture free thinking, encourage political debate and protect human rights.
It won't work.
Independent media outlets have been forced to shut down and operate from abroad. On top of plans for record military spending in 2027, Russia is steadily militarizing its political system too. This year, for the first time, Russia's Federal Security Service was in charge for the electoral process. Let that sink in. Voters were mobilized with the heavy-handed tactics one would expect from the organization at the heart of Russia's totalitarian system.
Putin has not given up on his war aims. His response to every offer to negotiate with more attacks on Ukrainian civilians.
The only way to end killing in Ukraine is with maximum pressure on Russia. Honorable members, Putin hates democracy because he is threatened by it. That is why, along with destroying the civil society and repressing political opposition at home, Russia meddles in the democratic space of others, including European Union. Democracies cannot be complacent in the face of a predator like Putin. Democracies must keep working to protect themselves and help others to do the same, by investing in media freedom, by supporting civil society, by building up resilient information space and protecting the rule of law.
And you, elected representatives of the people, must prove to the citizens every day that democracy delivers, that you listen to the citizens' concerns and that you act on their behalf. Honorable members, as Václav Havel once said, the power of the powerless lies in the fact that even the most brutal regime cannot extinguish the human longing for dignity. Democracy is nothing but dignity for people.
Where democracy flourishes, people can shape the decisions that affect their lives. Journalists can safely report on the state of the country, judges can deliver justice for people based on the law. And democratic countries are more productive, GDP is higher, and people live longer. It is hard to say no to that. And that is why, despite the repression in Russia, there will always be human rights defenders, anti-corruption leaders, dissidents, political artists, even though they are forced under the radar today.
These are the people who truly stand up for Russian people and can help Russia to build a better future. They will always have the European support. Thank you.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much, Commissioner. Now we come to the first round of speakers on behalf of political groups, and first I pass the floor to Sandra Kalniete on behalf of EPP.
Madam Commissioner, kolēģi! Putina diktatūra ir noturējusi vēsturiski visrepresīvākās domes vēlēšanas.
Sandra Kalniete
Tās pat grūti nosaukt par vēlēšanām, jo tās neatbilst visvienkāršākajiem demokrātijas standartiem. Ir aizliegta politiskā opozīcija, kriminalizēti protesti, pilnīgi kontrolēti mediji un propaganda, viltoti vēlētāju aktivitātes dati un mirušās dvēseles nobalsojušo sarakstos, un vairs nav neatkarīgas starptautiskās vēlēšanu uzraudzības. Es aicinu žurnālistus un starptautiskās institūcijas neizmantot vēlēšanu terminoloģiju, lai aprakstītu to, kas notika Krievijā un okupētajā Ukrainas teritorijā. Okupācijas varas rīkotas vēlēšanas ar spēku sagrābtā teritorijā ir starptautisko tiesību un Ukrainas suverenitātes pārkāpums. Tāpēc Eiropas Parlaments nedrīkst atzīt jaunievēlēto Domi par Krievijas Federācijas leģitīmu pārstāvniecību un likumdošanas institūciju.
Es aicinu Eiropas Padomi un dalībvalstis neatzīt jaunievēlētās Domes leģitimitāti.
Viens no Krievijas propagandas laikrakstiem, Moskovskij Komsomoļec, ir atzinis: Putins uzvarēja jaunā nacionālā referendumā par atbalstu karam. Jā, Putins jau ir sācis kārtējo mobilizācijas vilni un pastiprināts uzbrukums Ukrainas kritiskajai infrastruktūrai. Mērķis ir salauzt ukraiņu tautu šī kara vispostošākajā ziemā. Mums ir jābūt gataviem palielināt atbalstu Ukrainai. Mums ir jābūt gataviem aizstāvēt sevi, jo Kremlis turpinās apdraudēt mūsu demokrātiju un mieru.
Paldies.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you. The next speaker is Alessandra Moretti on behalf of S&D.
Alessandra Moretti
In Russia chi è riuscito ad andare a votare non è stato libero di scegliere. Il regime aveva già eliminato tutti i partiti di opposizione dalla competizione elettorale, nella maggior parte dei casi con l'uso e l'abuso della forza. Dico chi è riuscito ad andare a votare perché a tanti cittadini è stato impedito di esercitare questo diritto, perché arrestati per le loro idee, minacciati per aver scritto articoli contrari al regime o perché sono stati costretti a scappare dal paese per salvarsi la vita. Poi c'è stato chi non voleva e non avrebbe voluto votare. Penso alle persone che vivono nelle regioni illegalmente occupate dalla Russia, ma alle loro porte si sono presentati i militari per scortarli fino ai seggi.
Nulla di tutto questo è accettabile. Voglio essere chiara, non riconosciamo né lo svolgimento delle cosiddette elezioni nei territori ucraini né il loro esito e denunciamo la gestione generale di queste consultazioni organizzate in un clima di paura, repressione, caratterizzato dall'assenza di competizione politica, da gravi e sistematiche violazioni elettorali e da manipolazioni attuate attraverso la coercizione degli elettori e la falsificazione dell'affluenza e dei risultati. Grazie.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you. Before I pass the floor to the next speaker, I already have to say that we have to close the catch the eye because we have already too many demands and not so much time left. Now I pass the floor to Mr. Tomasz Buczek.
Tomasz Buczek
Debata o niedemokratycznych wyborach do Dumy w Rosji to kolejny pokaz hipokryzji tej izby. Martwi was brak demokracji w Rosji, na którą nie macie żadnego wpływu. Sami zaś chętnie uznajecie sprzeczne z prawem metody walki politycznej. Rozwijacie projekt tarczy demokracji, narzędzie, które pod hasłem walki z dezinformacją ma uzasadniać cenzurę, kontrolę nad narracją i wykluczanie głosów krytycznych wobec Brukseli. W Polsce Donald Tusk otwarcie mówi o demokracji walczącej.
W praktyce to pozaprawna walka z opozycją, zawłaszczanie mediów i prześladowania. Mamy przykład Węgier i Rumunii, gdzie macki globalistów wprost ingerowały w procedury wyborcze.
Przecież praktyka zamrażania funduszy dla państw rzekomo niepraworządnych to wyraz iście totalitarnej polityki Komisji Europejskiej, na jaką żadne z państw członkowskich nie godziło się, ratyfikując traktaty. Pod waszymi hasłami obrony demokracji kryje się próba utrzymania dyktatury globalistów w Unii Europejskiej. Rosja jest dziś tylko wygodnym pretekstem. Chcecie tym tematem odwrócić uwagę od własnych problemów: erozji suwerenności państw, chaosu migracyjnego, kosztów Zielonego Ładu. Chcecie przy tym jawnego ograniczenia debaty publicznej.
Skupmy się zatem w pierwszej kolejności na niedemokratycznej Brukseli, bo na nią macie wpływ, a nie na demokracji w Rosji.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Richard Kolson on behalf of ECR, and again I ask you to respect the time frame you have given by your political group.
Rihards Kols
Dear colleagues, from 18 to 20 September, the Kremlin staged what it called elections to State Duma. It imprisoned opponents, crushed independent media and forced voting on temporary occupied Ukrainian territory. Among the newly manufactured deputies, 46 served in the invasion forces or ran occupation administrations. One, Nursultan Masagaliyev, is accused of torturing and executing a civilian in Bucha.
This charade was designed to renew the mandate of a regime to build of a repression at the home and aggression abroad. Europe keeps waiting for Russia's society to wake up, but you cannot wake someone who is only pretending to sleep. The handful of Russians who genuinely resist deserve our protection, but their courage cannot become Europe's excuse for wishful thinking. There is only one precondition for democracy in Russia: defeat in Ukraine, full accountability and the total collapse of Russian imperial ambition. Thank you.
The next speaker is Bernard Guetta for Renew.
Bernard Guetta
Que les électeurs russes, que les élections russes soient aussi irrégulières qu'illégitimes, chacun le sait, mais alors que faire ? Eh bien trois choses.
Puisque Vladimir Poutine multiplie et aggrave toujours plus ses provocations, ce matin encore en Bulgarie, nous devons lui donner à voir que nous aussi nous pouvons perturber Internet, couper des réseaux de communication ou pirater une chaîne de télévision. Puisque ses services s'acharnent à diviser les citoyens de l'Union en diffusant de fausses informations, nous devrions nous doter d'une radio commune, Voice of Europe, qui nous permettrait de défaire les mensonges du Kremlin en nous adressant directement aux Russes. Et puis enfin, nous devrions faire connaître l'immensité de la fortune accumulée par Vladimir Poutine depuis qu'il a mis en place ce régime d'escrocs et de voleurs. Il n'est plus temps de dénoncer, mais d'agir.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you. I think there is coming on or not ? Yeah. Then you can jump directly to the rostrum, then because the next speaker for the Greens is Ville Niinistö.
Ville Niinistö
Madam President, everyone knows these elections are not free and fair elections, they are a fake election that in September was happening in Russia in the State Duma elections. They were conducted without a genuine political choice and independent election observation. Opposition was not allowed to run.
The Kremlin has turned elections into a tool of repression and legitimization that is a sham. Opposition politicians are imprisoned, exiled or excluded. Independent observers are obstructed and detained. Voters face pressure and coercion and independent media and civil society has been systematically silenced and even imprisoned. We must also be clear about the occupied Ukrainian territories.
Russia illegally organized voting in Crimea and in the occupied parts of Ukraine. These so-called elections are a blatant violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and international law and we will never recognize them or their results. The absence also of OSCE or ODIHR observation mission is particularly significant. Russia has undertaken commitments under the Copenhagen document. Genuine electoral observation cannot be replaced by politically controlled missions.
European Parliament should therefore not recognize the State Duma resulting from these elections as a legitimate representative body of the Russian people and European Union also should remember this in making sure that we support Ukraine and their fight for the sovereignty against Russian oppression. Thank you.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you.
The next speaker on behalf of the Left is Danilo Della Valle.
Danilo Della Valle
Grazie, Presidente. Diciamo la verità: alla maggioranza di questa aula le elezioni in Russia e le libertà democratiche dei russi non interessa assolutamente nulla. Quando la Russia era un partner dei paesi NATO si sono chiusi gli occhi dinanzi a tante cose poco democratiche. Non mi interessa perché ci sarebbero anche delle opposizioni in Russia che contestano le elezioni e il governo, come Jabloko, estromesso dal sistema proporzionale sul ricorso di Rodina, o del Partito Comunista Russo che in questi giorni è a Mosca sta protestando. Ma con queste forze non volete costruire un dialogo perché non sono compatibili con le vostre narrazioni sui russi e sulla Russia.
La discussione sui diritti democratici è importante, va fatta a 360 gradi. Io non ho mai sentito nessuno in questa aula parlare dei diritti democratici e delle elezioni in Arabia Saudita, negli Emirati Arabi, nel Qatar o nel Ruanda che sono i vostri partner. Inoltre stiamo aspettando una risoluzione sulle elezioni sospese in Ucraina, dove i partiti di opposizione sono messi fuori legge e il paese ostaggio di una classe dirigente corrotta e eterodiretta, con oppositori anche lì in galera. Oppure se vogliamo parlare anche di ciò di diritti democratici, di ciò che succede da noi, in Francia, dove giovani studenti vengono, chiedono un futuro migliore e vengono brutalmente repressi con 215 feriti.
Tutto ciò è inaccettabile. Se vogliamo una Russia migliore dobbiamo lavorare alla pace e per un negoziato perché in guerra non ci sarà mai spazio per i diritti.
Petar Volgin
Изключително нахално е точно тази Европейска комисия да назидава която и да била държава по отношение на проведените там избори. Това е същата Еврокомисия, която изпадна в луд възторг, когато под фалшив предлог беше отменен първият тур на президентския вот в Румъния, защото там спечели нехаресвания от статуквото кандидат. Направихме го в Румъния, ако трябва ще го направим и в Германия, каза тогавашният еврокомисар Тиери Бретон. Европейските елити, които днес толкова се карат на Русия, че не била демократична, правят всичко възможно, за да дискредитират партиите, които застрашават абсолютната им власт. След всяка победа на Алтернатива за Германия се засилват призивите за нейната забрана.
Изводът от такива призиви е, че ако сте кандидат от партия, която застрашава статуквото, ще бъдете отстранени от политическия живот. След като не могат да ви победят на полето на идеите, просто ще ви забранят да участвате. А в Библията е казано: А защо гледаш сламката в окото на брата си, пък гредата в своето око не усещаш?
Така че вместо да се вайкаме за демокрацията в Русия, нека първо спасим демокрацията в нашите държави. Благодаря.
Mika Aaltola
Arvoisa puheenjohtaja, korkea edustaja. Venäjällä ei syyskuussa valittu parlamenttia, siellä koottiin esikunta. Duumaan nousi 86 Venäjän hyökkäyssodan veteraania. Ainoa rauhaa vaatinut puolue poistettiin listalta heti, kun se alkoi kerätä kannatusta. Ja sen varapuheenjohtaja tuomittiin vuodeksi vankeuteen.
Hallinto, joka kirjaa itselleen 85 prosentin tuloksen eikä silti uskalla päästää rauhanpuoluetta vaaleihin, ei ole vahva, se on peloissaan. Diagnoosi on selvä: nämä olivat valevaalit. Prognoosi puhuu sen puolesta, että Venäjä pelkää hajoamistaan. Tässä on sodan tärkein oppi. Ukraina kestää, koska sen kansalaiset kantavat sitä.
Venäjä tekee päinvastoin: se vaientaa tarkkailijat, vangitsee rauhanpuolustajat ja ajaa osaajansa maanpakoon.
Kreml luulee vahvistuvansa, todellisuudessa se vain sabotoi itseään. Kiitos.
Thank you. The next speaker is Heléne Fritzon.
Heléne Fritzon
Fru talman, kommissionär Kyriakides. Det så kallade valet till den ryska statsduman är ännu ett tecken på en utveckling som går åt fel håll. Den demokratiska oppositionen tystas, journalister förföljs och oberoende medier tystas. Det civila samhället pressas tillbaka och Ryssland fortsätter sitt krig mot Ukraina. Men vi i Europa köper fortfarande rysk gas och olja för mer pengar än vad vi ger i stöd till Ukraina.
Det är ingenting annat än hyckleri. Europeiska pengar ska inte fortsätta bidra till Putins krigskassa och beroendet av rysk fossil energi måste upphöra. Samtidigt måste vi stärka stödet till Ukraina. Vi behöver avsätta varje medlemsstat en halv procent av sin BNP till stödet i Ukraina. Och vi får inte glömma barnen.
Över 20 000 ukrainska barn har deporterats eller tvångsförflyttats av Ryssland.
De barnen hör hemma i sina familjer, de hör hemma i Ukraina. Slava Ukraini.
Adam Bielan
Szanowna Pani Przewodnicząca, wybory w Rosji to fikcja. To kolejny reżyserowany przez Kreml spektakl mający na celu fasadową legalizację dyktatury Putina i wojny na Ukrainie. Wykluczenie z wyborów opozycjonistów jak partia Jabłoko to dowód, że Putin nie chce jakiejkolwiek debaty. Dziennikarze i działacze obywatelscy są represjonowani, a krytycy Kremla trafiają do więzień. W takich warunkach nie można mówić o wolnych wyborach.
Potępienia wymaga też pseudogłosowanie na nielegalnie okupowanych terytoriach Ukrainy. To pogwałcenie jej suwerenności i prawa międzynarodowego. Nie możemy uznać ani tego głosowania, ani jego wyniku. Europa musi zaostrzyć sankcje wobec Kremla i wspierać niezależne rosyjskie media oraz ludzi, którzy sprzeciwiają się wojnie i represjom. Domagamy się uwolnienia więźniów politycznych.
Dość pustych słów i nadziei, że wszystko zakończy się polubownie, a państwa europejskie będą mogły spokojnie wrócić do handlu tanimi surowcami z Rosji. Czas na zdecydowane działania.
Frau Präsidentin, Hohe Vertreterin, ein wichtiger Grundsatz demokratischer Wahlen ist, dass die Bürger frei entscheiden können, wem sie ihre Stimme geben und die Stimmabgabe geheim sein kann.
Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
Niemand muss wissen, wen man wählt und jeder kann kandidieren. Die Parlamentswahlen in Russland haben nichts damit zu tun, Fake made in Russia. Vor allem im völkerrechtswidrigen Gebieten und annektierten ukrainischen Gebieten, die nicht genehmigten, übrigens über die Ukraine hinaus, in den nicht genehmigten Wahllokalen in der Region Transnistrien, in der Republik Moldau, in Abchasien, in Südossetien, in Georgien, geprägt durch Nötigung, erzwungene Wahlbeteiligung, Repressalien von Kandidaten, Bedrohung, Wahlfälschungen, am Ende eine Wahl mit dem Gewehr am Kopf, um Putins Parteien wählen zu müssen. Meine Damen und Herren, wir sollten auch die in Russland unterstützen, die Zivilgesellschaft, die den Mut hat, gegen Putin aufzustehen, eine eigene Partei aufzubauen und den Krieg gegen die Ukraine nicht wollen. Und erinnern wir uns heute am 6. Oktober auch an die in der Ostukraine, an den besetzten Gebieten, die keine Wahl haben und verschleppt wurden.
So auch Katerina Korovina, die seit 849 Tagen in Gefangenschaft verschleppt ist und heute ihren 30. Geburtstag feiert. Katerina, wir denken an dich und nächstes Jahr hoffen wir, dass es wirklich ein Happy Birthday gibt.
Reinier Van Lanschot
Colleagues, the title of this debate makes no sense. Russia did not have an undemocratic election, more like a multiple choice exam with one answer, or a fan club meeting with mandatory attendance, or a dating app with one profile. Whatever it was, it was not an election. So why does a dictator bother doing this at all? Because dictators are weak.
A strong leader doesn't need to put political opponents and journalists in prison. Putin does, because his house of lies is so fragile that one honest voice can make it collapse. So every day he needs rituals like this one to spread fear so no one dares to speak up. That's why we must support Russian journalists in exile, like the Moscow Times in Amsterdam, who expose the lies and tell Russians the truth. And we must support Ukraine, a real democracy, until Russia retreats, because the house of lies is what's keeping the war going.
So who would I vote for in this Russian election?
I'd vote for a Ukrainian victory. Thank you.
Thank you, the next speaker is Jonas Sjöstedt.
Jonas Sjöstedt
Tack så mycket, fru talman. Den ryss som ville rösta mot Putin och mot Rysslands illegala krig mot Ukraina hade ingen att rösta på i det så kallade valet till duman. Istället så röstar unga ryssar med fötterna. Under en enda vecka i augusti korsade fler än 100 000 ryssar gränsen till Georgien. Vi vet och de vet att en mobilisering i Ryssland nu är sannolik.
Hundratusentals unga män ska tvingas ut i kriget mot Ukraina. Just nu så funderar miljoner unga ryssar på hur de ska undgå att mobiliseras, hur de ska kunna lämna landet. De vill någonting annat än Putins diktatur. Vi bör fundera på hur vi kan göra det enklare för dem att fly och att få en fristad.
Varje ryss som vägrar att delta i kriget mot Ukraina försvagar Putins styre. Tack.
Thank you. The next speaker is Petr Bystron.
Petr Bystron
Die stehen schon alle bei Ihnen, die mit dem Bargeld, ne? Sehr geehrte Frau Präsidentin, oh, Frau Kallas, schön, dass Sie heute da sind, liebe Kolleginnen, liebe Kollegen, freie und faire Wahlen sind die Grundlage für Demokratie. Und es ist richtig, ein Land zu kritisieren, in dem die Opposition unterdrückt wird, in dem Oppositionsparteien nicht zur Wahl zugelassen werden, in dem die Anführer von außerparlamentarischer Opposition ins Gefängnis gesteckt werden ohne gültige Gerichtsurteile, in dem Bürger eingeschüchtert werden und für Regierungskritik auf Facebook Hausdurchsuchungen über sich ergehen lassen müssen und in dem Journalisten verurteilt werden für Regierungskritik. All das ist in Deutschland passiert. Diese Partei, der das passiert, heißt AfD.
Der Anführer der außerparlamentarischen Opposition heißt Michael Ballweg.
Der Chefredakteur heißt David Bendels. Und solange und das haben Sie nicht kritisiert. Sowas haben Sie nie kritisiert. Und solange Sie das nicht kritisieren, verlieren Sie jegliches moralisches Recht, die gleichen Zustände im Ausland zu kritisieren und vor allem außerhalb der EU. Dankeschön.
Lukas Sieper
Sowas aber auch. Also, Herr Bistron, Sie haben sich ja schon in Ihrem Leben sehr um die Russische Föderation verdient gemacht. Und da gibt es den Artikel 97 der russischen Verfassung, der sagt, dass die Voraussetzung für ein Abgeordnetenmandat in Russland lediglich die russische Staatsbürgerschaft ist. Ja, Sie könnten also auch in Russland Abgeordneter werden. Meine Frage jetzt: Wenn Sie in Russland Abgeordneter wären und genau dasselbe erzählen würden, was Sie uns hier gerade erzählt haben über die russische Regierung, glauben Sie, dass das für Sie genauso folgenlos wäre, wie es hier im Europäischen Parlament für Sie folgenlos sein wird?
Petr Bystron
Lieber Herr Sypa, ich bin aus dem Kommunismus geflüchtet, habe in Deutschland Asyl bekommen und ich engagiere mich in Deutschland in der Politik, nicht in Russland.
Und für meine politische Betätigung habe ich schon einiges zu erleiden gehabt. Ich habe die ersten Hausdurchsuchungen schon 2017 gehabt, die wurden übrigens gerichtlich für illegal erklärt. Liebe Frau Strack-Zimmermann, machen Sie sich keine Sorgen, auch die 30, die ich mittlerweile jetzt hatte in den aktuellen Verfahren, sind weitestgehend illegal und auch da werden wir noch hinkommen. Und Sie sollten sich eher Gedanken machen, was wird in dem Rechtsstaat passieren mit Menschen, die als Lobbyisten antreten für Krieg und für Tod verantwortlich sind und sich hier noch anmaßen, die Opposition zu kritisieren.
Sabine Verheyen
Da ist eine Follow-up-Frage von Herrn Sypa. Akzeptieren Sie die auch? Ja.
Lukas Sieper
Herr Bystron, ich werde Ihnen etwas sagen, das würde ich zu wirklich niemandem sagen außer von der AfD. Sie sind politischer Flüchtling. Sie sind aus dem Ausland nach Deutschland gekommen, um dort ein Leben zu leben. Sind Sie nicht sonst immer der Meinung, dass jene, die nach Deutschland flüchten, sich an unsere Regeln zu halten haben? Und gehört dazu nicht auch die deutsche Verfassungsordnung?
Also wie können Sie als politischer Flüchtling, der in unser Land kommt und sich dort an unsere Regeln zu halten hat, eigentlich in einer Partei sein, die unsere Verfassungsordnung abräumen möchte?
Petr Bystron
Ach, lieber Herr Sypa, das ist wirklich sogar unter Ihrem Niveau, Herr Sypa, denn die AfD ist so wie sich die Sachen im Moment aussehen, ist mittlerweile die einzige Partei, die noch für den Erhalt der verfassungsmäßigen Ordnung in Deutschland kämpft. Ja, da können Sie lachen, wie Sie wollen, aber die Fakten sprechen eine andere Sprache.
Wir haben eine absolute Erosion des Rechtsstaats in Deutschland. Ich habe alle diese Details aufgezählt und wir können uns ja gerne auch bilateral noch weiter drüber unterhalten. Danke. Danke.
Ľuboš Blaha
Pani Kallasová, pani Leyenová, asi ste si nevšimli, ale Španielsko je v uliciach, Francúzsko je v uliciach a vy tu riešite ruské voľby. To si z nás asi robíte srandu. Rusom vyčítate, že mali voľby, ale nevadí vám, že Zelenskyj vládne už tretí rok bez akýchkoľvek volieb, bez mandátu. Vy pokrytci. Rusom vyčítate, že ich voľby neboli férové, ale nevadí vám, že v Rumunsku zrušili voľby iba preto, lebo zvíťazil nesprávny kandidát.
Rusom vyčítate, že zakazujú opozičné protesty, ale nevadí vám, že v Nemecku zatýkajú ľudí iba preto, že protestujú proti genocíde v Gaze. Rusom vyčítate, že prenasledujú opozíciu, ale nevadí vám, že v tom vašom slávnom Estónsku, pani Kallasová, ste zavreli lídra opozičnej strany Aiva Petersona na 16 rokov a ľudskoprávneho aktivistu Sergeja Seredenka na 5 a pol roka do basy, lebo nechcú vojnu s Ruskom. Toto je tá vaša demokracia? A čo príde ďalej? Postavíte tu eurogestapo, pani Kallasová, a budete zatvárať všetkých, ktorí chceme mier?
Speaker 378
Vy nemáte Putinovi čo vyčítať, pani Kallasová. Ten má na rozdiel od vás a tých vašich Mercov a Macronov podporu vlastného obyvateľstva a vy nás len ženiete do vojny a do totality.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Mainitsitte, että Ukrainassa ei ole pidetty vaaleja ja pidätte sitä ongelmana. Tapasín juuri delegaation ukrainalaisia kansanedustajia. Siellä oli oppositioedustaja myöskin ja heidän yhteinen viestinsä oli se, että he eivät halua sotatilan aikana vaaleja. He kyllä kritisoivat Zelenskyn politiikkaa oppositiopoliitikkoina, mutta heidän yhtenäinen viestinsä oli, että ei sodan keskellä vaaleja. Ja monissa muissakin sotatilanteissa on ollut käytäntö, että vaaleja ei pidetä, koska silloin kansa saattaisi jakautua.
Onko tämä teidän mielestänne outoa?
Ľuboš Blaha
Vážený pán kolega, aj v Rusku je vojna, ak ste si nevšimli. Aj na Rusko dopadajú drony a oni, predstavte si, voľby vypísali.
Ako je to možné? Ako si to vysvetľujete? Skutočnosť je taká, že na Ukrajine nemali voľby a oslavujú tam fašistov a banderovcov, ako je Melnyk, Bandera či Šuševič. To je v poriadku, že oslavujú fašistov? Je v poriadku, pokiaľ je tá krajina tak skorumpovaná, že už ľudia vychádzajú do ulíc a že dokonca utiekol generálny prokurátor?
Toto je v poriadku? Ja som presvedčený, pán kolega, že pokiaľ sme demokrati, tak musíme požadovať, aby na Ukrajine boli voľby a dobre viete, že podľa prieskumov by ich Zelenskyj prehral.
Rasa Juknevičienė
We had performance Govorit Moskva. Dear colleagues, first, we are not discussing elections here. There are no elections in Russia. There was a special electoral operation. Second, the new Russian Duma opened its first session with standing ovation.
For whom? For the war veterans, war criminals, now more than 10% of the seats.
Let me tell you about some of them. One is suspected of killing civilians in Bucha. Another took part in the siege of Mariupol. Ukraine accuses him of war crimes. Today he chairs the Duma Committee on Youth Policy.
This is not accident. This is a system. Putin's Russia has no future. Criminal, terrorist Russia has no future. Putin has robbed Russians of their future.
We must state clearly, we will never return to relations with this regime of war criminals. Europe needs strategy on Russia. Thank you.
Tobiasz Bocheński
Thank you, Madam President. Szanowni Państwo, oczywiście, że to nie były wybory i ta debata powinna dotyczyć po prostu Rosji, a nie wyborów w Rosji, ponieważ Rosja nigdy nie była demokratyczna i możemy zaryzykować twierdzenie, że demokratyczną nie będzie. Naszym problemem jest to, że wielki, imperialny, agresywny kraj jest u naszych granic i w jaki sposób się z takim krajem sobie radzić.
Często Polacy jesteśmy oskarżani o bycie rusofobami, którzy nienawidzą Rosji, bo jest po prostu Rosją. To nieprawda. My bardzo byśmy chcieli zobaczyć Rosję Politkowskiej, Rosję Sacharowa, Rosję demokratyczną, Rosję ze społeczeństwem obywatelskim. Ale to nie jest częścią DNA politycznego Rosji i powinniśmy zdawać sobie głęboko z tego sprawę. I pytanie pojawia się inne, szanowni państwo, dlaczego tak późno się zorientowaliśmy, kim jest Putin?
A dzisiaj można postawić pytanie, dlaczego Gerhard Schröder nie jest na liście sankcyjnej? Dziękuję bardzo.
Michał Szczerba
Rosyjskie wybory. To była farsa. Przeprowadzenie ich na okupowanych czasowo terytoriach należących do Ukrainy to zbrodnia na prawie międzynarodowym. To czas na odważne decyzje całej Unii. Wzmocnienie wsparcia dla Ukrainy.
Zwiększenie presji na Rosję. Pełne wykorzystanie zamrożonych aktywów Rosji. Tu musi być decyzja i nie ma miejsca na półśrodki.
Zwiększenie działań na rzecz bezpieczeństwa i obrony. Europejska Rada Bezpieczeństwa, mechanizmy reagowania kryzysowego kompatybilne z NATO i pieniądze. Czyli wieloletni budżet Unii Europejskiej. Nie ma i nie będzie naszej zgody na jakiekolwiek oszczędności kosztem wspólnych wydatków na bezpieczeństwo, na mobilność wojskową, na infrastrukturę dual-use. Tak zwany negobox irlandzkiej prezydencji nie może dotyczyć obszaru bezpieczeństwa.
Czas na odważne decyzje.
Ondřej Kolář
Dobrý večer. Mockrát děkuji za slovo, vážená paní Kalas, dámy a pánové. Já se přiznám, že mě mrzí, když v souvislosti s tím Bolshoi Teatrem, který se odehrál nedávno v Rusku, používáme slovo volby. Tohle je fotka z Ukrajiny. Přijde vám tohle jako volby?
To nejsou volby. U voleb nejsou vojáci, zakuklení vojáci, kteří dohlížejí na to, jestli správně odevzdáváte váš hlas. Tohle je násilím vynucené formální potvrzení současného stavu, žádné volby. Je to nástroj dalšího porobení jak ruského, tak ukrajinského obyvatelstva.
Je to další nástroj ruské propagandy, který tady velmi ochotně sdílí všichni kremloboti, od kterých slyšíme, že Rusko je ve skutečnosti fungující svobodná demokratická země, kde i mají volby a Ukrajina nikoliv, protože tam volby nemají. Před chvilkou jsme to tady slyšeli. Proto vám děkuji, paní Kalas, že jste v souvislosti s těmi volbami použila slovo falešné a taky za to, že jste vzpomněla Václava Havla, včera by se byl býval dožil devadesátých narozenin. Děkuji.
Thank you. Ich möchte an dieser Stelle noch mal darauf hinweisen, dass das Mitbringen irgendwelcher Gegenstände und Vorzeigen im Plenum eigentlich nicht erlaubt ist, und nicht nur eigentlich, sondern ich, das ist nicht okay, deshalb bitte sich in Zukunft daran zu halten. The next speaker is Liudas Mažylis.
Liudas Mažylis
Dėkoju pirmininke, vyriausioji įgaliotine, kolegos. Šiais akivaizdžiai suklastotais rinkimais Rusijos režimas užsitikrino tolesnį Dūmos pavaldumą Putinui, o kartu joje būtų neva atstovaujamos okupuotos Ukrainos teritorijos. Politinės konkurencijos Rusijoje seniai nėra. Ryžtingiausi sistemos kritikai: Politkovskaja, Nemcovas, Navalnas nužudyti, o tiems, kurie dar gyvi, nebuvo leista dalyvauti.
Užtat Dūmoje posėdžiaus 46 karo prieš Ukrainą veteranai, paversdami ją karo štabu. Režimas, siunčiantis šimtus tūkstančių savo piliečių mirti svetimoje žemėje, tvirtina, kad tauta jį rekordiškai palaiko, nors iš tikrųjų Putinas bijo savo paties karo. O svarbiausia šių neva rinkimų reikšmė - tam farsui įvykus, valdžia su mažesne rizika gali imtis organizuoti visuotinę karinę mobilizaciją. O tai mus tik dar labiau įpareigoja nuosekliai veikti Ukrainos labui. Dėkoju.
Davor Ivo Stier
Thank you, Chair, High Representative, dear colleagues. Yeah, Russia had elections and citizens went to cast a vote, but we know that this by itself is not a proof of a democracy. Because there was no real choice, no real opposition, only Putin's party and Putin-friendly parties could participate. All the media were under Putin's control. So this only confirmed that Russia, unfortunately, is not a democracy, is an autocracy.
And of course, on top of that, they organized the elections in the occupied territories in Ukraine, seeking to legitimize that occupation.
But we condemn that. We know that there is nothing that can legitimize Russia's aggression against Ukraine and the occupation of Ukraine territories. Now, the pattern is known. The autocrats always begin by oppressing their own people and then they tend to conquer and oppress the neighbors. This is a pattern and this is an attitude that some politicians also in Europe and EU candidate countries would like to imitate.
So since we have more elections in October, we need to pay attention. Thank you.
Miriam Lexmann
Ďakujem za slovo. Predstavte si, že sa ocitnete v malom meste bez vody, jedla, elektriny a liekov. Ste odrezaní od sveta a od pomoci. Okolo vás sú míny a cesta von je absolútne nemožná. Presne v takejto situácii sú práve teraz ľudia v meste Olešky pri Chersone.
Rovnako mnohí ďalší na Ukrajine sú vyčerpaní a unavení útokmi na mosty, cesty, školy, obchody a infraštruktúru, teda nie na vojenské ciele, ale na civilnú infraštruktúru. Aj takto funguje brutálny a neľudský ruský režim. Tento režim si zodpovednosť nikdy neprizná a pokračuje ďalej. Stupňujú sa hybridné útoky aj na členské štáty Európskej únie.
Sám minister Lavrov otvorene hovorí, že Rusko je ochotné zvyšovať silu útokov a použiť ešte drastickejšie metódy. Rusko si zároveň odmieta sadnúť za rokovací stôl a nesúhlasí ani s dočasným prímerím. Čo myslíte, keby bol mier osobou, išiel by zachraňovať ľudí v meste Olešky, alebo by išiel zagratulovať Vladimírovi Putinovi k víťazstvu v kvázi voľbách? Ďakujem.
Vielen Dank, ich komme hier zu Catch-the-Eye und aufgrund der fortgeschrittenen Zeit werde ich nur fünf Redner bei Catch-the-Eye berücksichtigen können. Der erste Redner ist Reinhold Lopatka.
Reinhold Lopatka
Thank you very much. In March 2018, I served as an election observer of OSCE in Russia during the presidential elections, as well as I did it in previous elections before in Russia. At that time, there was still hope that free elections might one day take place in Russia. Unfortunately, we see now the opposite. In September, United Russia, Edinaya Rossiya, was awarded 349 of 450 seats.
But what choice did the people have? They had no choice. Yabloko, the only pro-peace party on the ballot, was removed. And Russia, still officially a member of OSCE, didn't allow, of course, in such a spectacle to have election observers. And even Pyotr Bystrom was not able to find even one word speaking of elections in Russia.
That says all.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Danke Frau Präsidentin. Vicepresidenta Kalas, ya lo ve, claro que hay en este Parlamento un acuerdo sobre la ilegitimidad de esa farsa de elecciones que solo refuerzan la corrupta autocracia putinesca. Pero lo cierto es que en febrero se cumplirán cinco años de esa cruenta guerra de agresión en la frontera de Europa y que la retórica de Putin es cada vez más amenazadora.
Kaliningrado, de la que tanta gente en la Unión no había oído hablar y que es frontera directa, Polonia y Lituania, con Rusia, enclave de Rusia en Europa. Y la pregunta es: ¿tenemos acaso una estrategia que no sea Slava Ukraini pensando que eso conducirá a que mañana o pasado mañana se desmoronará la autocracia de Putin? ¿Tenemos alguna estrategia para estar presentes en una mesa de negociación, en un escenario de negociación que ofrezca una alternativa diplomática a una paz que sea justa para Ucrania y que tenga sello europeo, en el que Europa tenga algo que decir? Por tanto, señora Kallas, no basta sencillamente con criticar a Putin. La Unión Europea tiene que tener estatura global.
Gracias, presidenta.
Thierry Mariani
Merci, Madame la Présidente. Je suis ici parce que je dois participer au débat suivant, mais finalement c'est un débat auquel je viens d'assister qui est intéressant et je le dis franchement à mes collègues, je ne comprends pas le sens de ce débat. J'ai l'impression que c'est un débat en réalité, une sorte d'exutoire sur notre impuissance. Est-ce qu'on doit traiter avec Monsieur Poutine ou avec un autre? Monsieur Poutine est président de la Russie et si nous voulons un jour faire la paix, et bien il faut dialoguer avec lui.
Nous ne voulons pas reconnaître la Douma d'État russe, franchement, je pense qu'il s'en moque complètement. Et puis quand on a une indignation sur la démocratie, alors dans ce cas-là soyons cohérents.
Est-ce qu'on a une indignation sur les monarchies pétrolières islamistes qui soutiennent le terrorisme ? Est-ce qu'on a une indignation sur certains États africains comme par exemple le Rwanda qu'on subventionne largement où Monsieur Kagame a été réélu par 99 % des voix ? Est-ce qu'on a une indignation sur l'Ukraine où il n'y a pas d'élection depuis deux ans ? Voilà, je pense que la seule indignation qu'on devrait avoir, c'est au contraire que cette guerre continue et que l'Europe cherche les moyens d'y mettre fin et pas au contraire de la subventionner sans fin.
Siegfried Mureşan
Thank you. Dear colleagues, Putin is not afraid or concerned about statements. But if we act tough, the situation is gonna change. But if you look back historically, the problem is that often, especially after 2007, instead of acting tough, we look weak. During the EU-Russia summit in Lisbon in 2007, in fall of 2007, Putin said that if the international community is going to recognize the independence of Kosovo, all the frozen conflicts from Eastern Europe are gonna melt.
And he nominated South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria, Azerbaijan, and even Romania. And what did we do?
At the beginning of 2008, we recognized the independence of Kosovo. In April of 2008, when we had the NATO summit in Bucharest, Romania, Western European countries vetoed Georgia and Ukraine to join NATO. What happened afterwards? August 2008, the war in Georgia, the first Russian aggression of the 21st century. We should learn something from what happened.
Stop with these tough statements and act tough. The toughest way to act is to close the northern corridor that is currently used by European companies to transit goods from Asia into Europe.
Helmut Brandstätter
Danke, Frau Präsidentin, sehr geehrte Frau Vizepräsidentin Kallas. Natürlich war es keine Wahl. Putin ist ein Feigling, er versteckt sich irgendwo und wäre überhaupt nicht in der Lage, sich bei einer Wahl mit anderen auseinanderzusetzen. Was aber wirklich empörend ist, dass wir hier in diesem Parlament, wo jeder was sagen kann, was er will, dass wir hier Leute hören müssen, die einfach nachplappern, was die russische Propaganda sagt und das bei sich zu Hause auch sagen. Und dass sie auch kein Wort gegen den russischen Terror gegen die Ukraine sagen.
Im Wiener Parlament habe ich sogar erlebt, dass eine FPÖ-Abgeordnete, eine rechtsextreme, gelächelt hat, geschmunzelt hat, das nett gefunden hat, als ich über den Mord an Kindern in der Ukraine gesprochen habe. Und wir haben inzwischen in Österreich mit einer wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung herausgefunden, dass eben diese FPÖ eins zu eins die russischen Narrative nacherzählt, oft sogar eins zu eins, nachdem die Russen etwas gesagt haben, dass es auch im zeitlichen Abfolge, dass es stimmt, und zwar auch in österreichischen Parlamenten. Und ich bitte nur, das in anderen Parlamenten in anderen Ländern auch zu untersuchen und auch hier in unserem Europäischen Parlament. Danke schön.
Vielen Dank. Jetzt gebe ich das Wort an die Hohe Vertreterin und Vizepräsidentin der Kommission, Kaja Kallas.
Kaja Kallas
Thank you very much and thank you, honorable members, for this debate. I think we need to also remember, you know, why Russia attacked Crimea in the first place. It was not because, you know, Ukraine was about to join NATO. It was actually about Ukraine joining or having the association agreement with European Union. So Ukraine coming closer to European Union.
And why is that the threat to Russia? It is because democracy is coming closer. And why is democracy a threat? Because in democracy, democratic leaders are held accountable, responsible for their decisions.
Every four years, you have elections and then, you know, if people don't like what you're doing, then you're voted out. But dictators do not care about the public opinion. They don't care about what people think. What they care about is to keep the cronies around them happy, that means oligarchs, then keeping the army and the power structures happy because they keep the dictators in power and also eliminating all the alternatives. And that is what we see also in Russia.
Now, I think this is important to keep in mind. Russia is afraid of democracy. And that is very clear. And that's why I also agree with all those members who've said that calling them elections is actually wrong. We should call them a special electoral operation because that is clearly what it was.
And finally, one comment that is not really related to democracy in Russia, but MEP Buzek was really attacking the press freedom in Poland. I was just checking the numbers in the press freedom index. Russia is on that list 172. Poland 27.
So, I mean, this is a clear answer where there's a problem and where there is not. Thank you.
Sabine Verheyen
Vielen Dank. Zum Abschluss der Aussprache wurde ein Entschließungsantrag eingereicht. Die Aussprache ist hiermit geschlossen und die Abstimmung findet am Donnerstag statt. Bevor ich den nächsten Punkt aufrufe, muss ich sagen, dass wir ein technisches Problem haben, sodass diese Debatte nicht auf den Screens erscheint und auch die Rednerliste nur höchstens manuell eingegeben werden kann. Insofern werde ich die Redner immer zwei, also den nächsten schon mit ankündigen, damit sich die Kollegen entsprechend rechtzeitig fertig machen können.
Wir kommen nun zur Anfrage zur mündlichen Beantwortung Stand der Fortschritte in den Handels- und Investitionsbeziehungen zwischen der EU und Afrika. Und ich gebe zunächst einmal Bernd Lange das Wort als Berichterstatter und danach bekommt Maroš Šefčovič im Namen der Kommission das Wort. Zunächst Bernd Lange, bitteschön.
Ja, Frau Vorsitzende, herzlichen Dank, lieber Maroš, liebe Kolleginnen, Kollegen.
Bernd Lange
Ich denke wenn man die geopolitische Situation sich zurzeit anguckt diskutieren wir über Afrika über China über ein paar andere große Länder aber Afrika kommt kaum vor. Afrika scheint obwohl geografisch ja nicht so weit entfernt kaum in den strategischen Überlegungen vor hat natürlich mit 2,9 % des globalen Handels auch noch nicht die große wirtschaftliche Bedeutung. Der innerafrikanische Handel mit 15 % ist auch relativ gering also Sie sehen da gibt es vielfältige Beziehungen außerhalb Afrikas und die demografische Entwicklung zeigt aber was für eine dynamische Entwicklung in Afrika sich vollzieht. Und da fragt man sich schon wie kann man es eigentlich akzeptieren dass es keine konsistente europäische Strategie für dieses Partnerland Afrika gibt. Klar ist dass es auch keine Kopie bestehender Strategien geben darf.
Wir wissen alle dass China mit der Seidenstraße sehr intensiv investiert hat und damit auch Abhängigkeiten in afrikanischen Ländern geschaffen hat. Und deswegen glaube ich müssen wir da noch mal ran.
Ich möchte mal vier Punkte nennen und denke, vielleicht können Sie da auch drauf antworten. Der erste Punkt: Ich beobachte, dass wir nach wie vor eine Situation haben, wo mir immer das Bild vom Spinnrad von Mahatma Gandhi in den Kopf kommt. Der hat ja das Spinnrad als Symbol einer ungerechten wirtschaftlichen Beziehung dargestellt, dass die Rohstoffe billig damals aus Indien abgegriffen worden sind und dass dann Großbritannien die Fertigprodukte teuer nach Indien verkauft hat. Und so ein bisschen haben wir das auch noch nach wie vor in Afrika, wenn man zum Beispiel Kakao in Ghana und der Elfenbeinküste sich anguckt. Also die Frage: Wie kriegen wir es hin, dass es hier eine balancierte Wertschöpfungsentwicklung gibt, damit man auch diversifizieren kann und letztendlich die Wertschöpfung zu verarbeiteten Produkten in afrikanischen Staaten führt und diese über Jahrzehnte gewachsene Einseitigkeit aufgehoben wird.
Zweiter Punkt, ich habe gesagt, nur 15 % binnenafrikanischer Handel. Es wäre ja ganz gut, wenn es wirklich die afrikanische kontinentale Freihandelszone gibt, dass Afrika gemeinsam sich weiterentwickelt und letztendlich das Flickwerk, was es an Beziehungen gibt, wir haben ein paar EPAs, wir haben mit Kenia, Südafrika Handelsverträge, zusammengeführt wird in eine Kooperation zwischen der Afrikanischen Union und der Europäischen Union. Wie kriegen wir es hin, diesen Prozess stärker zu dynamisieren, stärker zu unterstützen? Dritter Punkt, wenn wir die wirtschaftliche Entwicklung stärken wollen, brauchen wir Investitionen. Und da ist die Frage, wie die Kommission Investitionstätigkeit aus Europa unterstützen kann, ob es so was wie eine Absicherung, wir haben in Deutschland die Hermes-Bürgschaften, es gab schon eine lange Diskussion, ob man nicht auch so ein europäisches Instrument schaffen sollte.
Global Gateway, die Projekte sind die eigentlich wirklich im Interesse, gibt es ein Impact Assessment, kann man wirklich sehen, wo eigentlich die Beteiligung ist und wie die Investitionstätigkeit nach vorne gebracht wird? Auch da, glaube ich, müssen wir eine vernünftige Antwort finden und vielleicht das eine oder andere nacharbeiten.
Klar gibt es auch Chancen. Ich meine, wenn man Nairobi sich anguckt, Chinesen haben eine Autobahn quer durch Nairobi gebaut, kann kein Kenianer sich leisten und er hat auch nicht zur Entlastung des Verkehrs beigetragen. Da machen wir ein Projekt zur Stärkung des öffentlichen Nahverkehrs mit Elektrobussen und Wasserstoffbussen. Aber das ist sehr punktuell. Man muss glaube ich insgesamt gucken, wie man Investitionen stärkt.
Und der vierte Punkt: Wir müssen verlässlicher Partner bleiben. Wir diskutieren sehr schnell jetzt die industrielle Entwicklung in Europa und ich habe manchmal das Gefühl, dass das auch dazu führt, dass wir Überlegungen anstellen, die vielleicht diese Partnerschaft mit Afrika wieder in Frage stellt. Wenn in Südafrika Autos gebaut werden und die zu zwei Dritteln nach Europa exportiert werden und die in der öffentlichen Beschaffung dann nicht mehr eingekauft werden können, weil sie eben nicht Made in Europe sind, dann stimmt irgendwas nicht. Vier Punkte, wo wir nachbessern müssen. Ich zähle auf Sie, Maroš Šefčovič.
Vielen Dank. Ich möchte noch mal darauf hinweisen, eigentlich wäre die Debatte insgesamt um 8 Uhr zu Ende gewesen. Wir haben jetzt 20 Minuten Verspätung mit dem Beginn der Debatte. Insofern bitte ich wirklich jeden, sich strikt an die Redezeit zu halten. Ich werde zumindest strikt darauf achten.
Bitteschön, Herr Kommissar.
Maroš Šefčovič
Thank you very much, Madam President, honorable members and dear Chair Lange. First and foremost, I very much welcome this debate on advancing EU-US trade relations.