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PLENARY European Parliament
Follow its sittingsThomas Byrne
It's our belief that new own resources will play a critical part in this effort in parallel to volume. I know the Parliament's also of this view, putting forward suggestions on potential new own resources to be considered alongside those proposed by the Commission as well as the priorities on expenditure. Our work on this aspect has been and will remain guided by three key principles. Any new own resources package must generate substantial funds, it has to get unanimity among the member states and it has to be implementable by 2028. Only this way can we build an ambitious, credible and sustainable budget.
And I know that I can count on the commitment of the European Parliament as we work on this endeavor.
But beyond the upcoming negotiating box, we also have joint responsibility to ensure that all legal texts are in place in good time before January 2028. As you will know, the Council has adopted its position on the majority of sectoral files. This fast progress has been with a view to allow sufficient time to start negotiations with the European Parliament. And with that in mind, our presidency is ready to begin this process with you once you receive your relative mandates. Our smooth cooperation will be instrumental in this task.
So let me assure you of the Irish presidency's absolute commitment to a strong European Union budget, to allow the European Union to sustainably and decisively act on all of its priorities in the interest of its citizens in a fiscally responsible manner. We do this for our citizens, their communities, and for future generations. I certainly look forward to the debate and to the continued engagement with the European Parliament and with the European Commission. Go raibh míle maith agaibh, thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Minister. And welcome to our Commissioner Piotr Serafin. You get directly the floor. Please, Mr. Serafin.
Piotr Serafin
More than a year ago, the Commission has put forward its proposal for the next MFF. We have proposed a budget that reflects the challenges Europe faces today, in particular when it comes to competitiveness, defense and security. We have proposed a budget that preserves the space we need to respond to the unknowns of tomorrow. A budget that continues to support treaty-based long-standing policies because they also contribute to competitiveness and security. Last but not least, we have proposed a budget that is financed to a substantial extent through new own resources.
And here I would like to thank the European Parliament for your constant support. You have also pushed for new options and, importantly, you have continued to make the case for a budget that has solid sources of funding. We have also proposed a modern budget. The modernization was not achieved simply by adding new bills to old ones. We have focused on those challenges that a single member state often cannot address alone, on things that have the biggest European added value with the lowest possible bill.
Some capitals continue to look at the EU budget like accountants look at balance sheets. How much do I put in and how much do I get out? This approach was misguided in the past but with our modern budget it is entirely flawed. Because ultimately the Union budget cannot be captured by a simple juste retour logic. Our budget addresses common challenges.
Challenges that cannot be addressed by a single member state alone. Even if each single member state were to try to shoulder these challenges in isolation the bill would most likely be much higher. By addressing those challenges together we are exploiting economies of scales and synergies. Ladies and gentlemen I truly believe that in these turbulent times the European Union has become an anchor of stability. Also for our citizens.
We need a timely agreement on the budget to preserve stability and predictability to our citizens in a world that is constantly changing and changing for the worse. The ball is now in the camp of the co-legislators to take this forward and the aim should be to find a timely agreement. I want to recognize the members of this house who have been working on the MFF from the very beginning. The many meetings, discussions and sometimes polemics that we have had are essential part of shaping this budget and ensuring the democratic accountability of this process. All this brings me to the substance of the debate.
I have not heard anyone questioning the priorities we have put forward for the next EU budget. So the question is not whether those investments are needed. The question is rather how much of that should we do together at the European level because it is cheaper and more efficient and how much of that will be done at the national level only. The Commission will continue to accompany you along the road as we have done from the very beginning of this process. We are also assisting the Irish presidency in the preparation of the negobox.
But what I want to add as well, we will play our institutional role, but we will also continue to defend our proposal because we think it is a good one and the one that brings a lot of value for money. Thank you.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much, Commissioner. I would like to inform you, as we have already nearly 20 requests for catch the eye, that we close the catch the eye now because we are not able already to take all the requests. And I really beg the colleagues in the sense of fairness to stick to the speaking time, the more people I can take also in catch the eye at the end. So I now pass the floor to the first round of speakers on behalf of the political groups. The first speaker is Siegfried Mureșan on behalf of EPP.
Two minutes.
Siegfried Mureşan
Thank you very much, Madam President, Minister, Commissioner, colleagues. Look, the European Commission one year ago put forward a budget 1.15% of the gross national income of member states. The current MFF when it was put forward, 1.14% of the GNI of member states. What the Commission did was to propose a budget at the same level as the current one while we have more challenges. And we as a Parliament saw that already the draft budget of the European Commission was insufficient simply because we have to do more and we cannot do more with the same amount of money.
Any talk, Minister, in Council to now further reduce the budget below the level of the Commission would weaken Europe. It would mean that we cannot support farmers enough, we cannot support local communities enough, we cannot invest in our security and defense as we have to and we can also not invest in research, innovation, improve our competitiveness. Let us say very clearly, Minister, any cuts to the budget which would weaken Europe over the course of the next years will not be a basis for the consent of the European Parliament. This House will not approve a budget which would weaken Europe, which would not allow us to achieve our goals, which would affect our capacity to react when there are crises, when there are unexpected developments. David Cameron was telling us all that the target should be 1% of GNI of all member states.
We know where that ended, it ended with Brexit. We should learn from others' mistakes, we should not repeat those mistakes. And it is clear we have more challenges over the course of the next years, we have to equip the Union with the right budget. At national level in absolute numbers over the course of the last seven years national budgets have grown by 68% in absolute numbers. Our EU budget has not grown like that.
So the perception that at national member states level governments have to consolidate their budgets while Europe is doing more and more and the budget is growing is not correct.
Siegfried Mureşan
The reality is exactly the contrary. So a situation in which member states contribute less of their GNI and less of their national budgets to Europe while expecting Europe to do more would be wrong. This is why, Minister, let us work on own resources, which are the only way out to ensure a sufficient budget of the Union for the next years. The Parliament has a mandate, a position for negotiations. It is high time that the Council by the end of your presidency also reaches a common position so that we can start negotiations.
Thank you very much.
Carla Tavares
Senhora Presidente, Senhor Comissário, Senhor Ministro, os desafios que a Europa enfrenta não se tornaram menores, pelo contrário. São mais e diversificados. Não estamos perante crises temporárias, mas perante desafios estruturais e a nossa resposta tem de ser igualmente estrutural e ambiciosa. O valor proposto pela Comissão para o próximo quadro financeiro plurianual de cerca de 2 biliões de euros parece elevado, mas descontada a inflação o aumento real é muito marginal.
Por isso mesmo, o Parlamento Europeu assumiu uma posição clara no relatório que aqui aprovámos em abril. Não pedimos mais dinheiro, pedimos que os recursos correspondam às responsabilidades e aos desafios da União Europeia. Todos queremos uma Europa mais competitiva e coesa, com independência energética, segurança alimentar, mais investimento na defesa, no clima, na educação, na saúde, nas infraestruturas, na ajuda humanitária e nas tecnologias estratégicas. Mas há no Conselho quem peça um orçamento mais pequeno e há quem recuse novos recursos próprios. Isto é querer uma Europa de primeira linha com um orçamento de segunda linha.
A ambição em matéria de despesa exige uma resposta credível em matéria de receitas. Um sistema de recursos próprios genuíno, mais diversificado, alivia a pressão sobre as contribuições nacionais e traduz uma base mais sustentada àquilo que são as nossas prioridades comuns. A escolha não é entre uma Europa barata e uma Europa cara, mas entre uma Europa subfinanciada que vai de crise em crise e uma Europa devidamente financiada que é capaz de antecipar desafios, investir nas pessoas, nas empresas e, acima de tudo, moldar o seu futuro. O quadro financeiro é o nosso instrumento político mais forte para enfrentarmos todos os nossos desafios comuns. Reduzir o orçamento não é uma solução, financiá-lo com ambição é crucial e não podemos, naturalmente, fazer mais com menos.
Julien Sanchez
Monsieur le Ministre, Monsieur le Commissaire, vous osez appeler le débat d'aujourd'hui un cadre financier ambitieux pour une Europe forte et résiliente. Mais permettez-moi d'abord de vous demander où est l'Europe résiliente lorsque vous l'endettez pour des décennies ? Car nous ne pouvons aborder ce débat sans vous rappeler votre gestion réelle. À cause de votre gestion avec amateurisme des emprunts Next Generation de 800 milliards, le budget européen devra supporter pendant des décennies le remboursement de cette dette qui a dérapé et que nous paierons jusqu'en 2058. Sur le prochain cadre financier 2028-2034, il est question de 149,3 milliards consacrés au remboursement de Next Generation.
Une part importante du budget prochain qui sera jetée à la poubelle et nous devrions faire semblant de croire que vous nous promettez une Europe résiliente et forte alors que vous faites marcher l'Europe avec des béquilles. Vous nous parlez ensuite de cadre financier ambitieux. Mais ambitieux pour qui ? Quels intérêts défend votre projet de budget ? Pas ceux de nos concitoyens en tout cas.
Au lieu de réduire les mauvaises dépenses, de lutter réellement contre la fraude et de défendre les intérêts financiers de l'Union, vous nous proposez plus de dépenses, plus de dettes, plus de taxes pour les entreprises et les particuliers et plus de centralisation. Alors pour nous c'est non. Mais notre ligne rouge c'est la politique agricole commune. Vous voulez faire disparaître sa spécificité budgétaire en l'intégrant dans une architecture commune avec la défense, la gestion des frontières et d'autres politiques. Ce n'est pas une simplification, c'est un crime.
Ils travaillent, ils produisent, ils nourrissent nos peuples. Ils sont garants de notre souveraineté alimentaire et de notre santé publique. Et année après année Bruxelles leur impose davantage de normes, de contraintes, de conditionnalités, des accords de libre-échange dévastateurs. Et maintenant vous voulez également leur enlever la garantie d'un budget agricole clairement identifié et protégé. Quelle honte !
Que vous ont fait les agriculteurs ?
Vous devez reculer sur ce sujet et j'en appelle à mes collègues de tout bord politique pour nous soutenir sur ce sujet et soutenir les agriculteurs. Permettez-moi enfin de m'indigner du bouleversement très électoral du calendrier d'élaboration du CFP. Le précédent avait été négocié en 31 mois, vous voulez approuver celui-ci avec 14 mois d'avance. La France est un contributeur majeur au budget de l'Union européenne. Le président que les Français choisiront en 2027 doit pouvoir peser pleinement sur les choix budgétaires qui engageront notre pays jusqu'en 2034.
Si Emmanuel Macron n'a pas su ou voulu défendre les intérêts de la France pendant 10 ans, je vous conseille d'intégrer qu'à partir du 2 mai 2027, la France sera ici de retour et pèsera de tout son poids. Vous aurez à la respecter, il serait prudent d'intégrer dès maintenant cette donnée. Merci.
Bogdan Rzońca
Szanowna pani przewodnicząca, szanowni państwo. Nie powinniśmy dziś dyskutować tylko o tym ile Unia będzie miała pieniędzy, ale jak wydaje swoje pieniądze. To jest istotna kwestia i jakie ma priorytety. Bo świat od 2020 roku bardzo się zmienił.
Sytuacja gospodarcza również. Bezpieczeństwo? Tak. Unia będzie bezpieczna, jeśli będziemy szanować każde miejsce pracy w Unii Europejskiej. No ale nikt nie chce dzisiaj się przyznać do tego, dlaczego mamy najdroższą energię na świecie.
Dlaczego tak jest? Konsekwencje zielonej transformacji są takie, że dziś za chwilę popołudniu będziemy głosować pomoc dla konających firm z Finlandii, Hiszpanii, Belgii. Musimy zatrzymać ETS oraz dyrektywę budynkową, bo mieszkańców Unii Europejskiej na nią nie stać. Unia po prostu wprowadzając nowe podatki obniża jakość życia jej mieszkańców i dzięki temu środowiska ekstremistyczne żerują na Unii Europejskiej. Tylko dobre centrum może dobrze poprowadzić Unię gospodarczą do sukcesów.
Musimy kupować nowe technologie w Ameryce, w Stanach Zjednoczonych, w Korei, a nie mówić o budowie fundamentów, żeby w przyszłości zbudować firmy produkujące broń. Putin jest u bram Unii Europejskiej. Nie wiadomo co zrobi jutro.
A my mówimy o tym, że trzeba budować ściany i sufity. Nikt w Unii nie sprzeciwia się wydatkom, tylko nikt nie sprawdza w Unii Europejskiej, jak wydatkowano pieniądze w Unii Europejskiej. Był plan Junckera. Kto sprawdził i jakie były sukcesy w cudzysłowie planu Junckera? Mamy New Generation EU.
Kto sprawdza? Tylko Europejski Trybunał Obrachunkowy mówi, jak fatalnie wygląda sytuacja z wydatkami w tym akurat finansowym instrumencie. Musimy obronić wspólną politykę rolną, spójność i politykę regionalną. Wtedy będziemy silniejsi. I liczę na to, że polski premier podczas najbliższej rady nie poświęci rolnictwa, spójności i polityki regionalnej dla własnego stanowiska w Unii Europejskiej.
Dziękuję bardzo.
Fabienne Keller
Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Commissaire Sefcovic, Monsieur le Ministre, cher Thomas Byrne, chers collègues, nous avons adopté il y a quelques mois dans cet hémicycle avec une large majorité la position du Parlement européen sur le prochain cadre financier pluriannuel. Nous appelons à un budget à la hauteur de l'ambition européenne. Nous avons clairement déclaré que notre consentement à l'adoption du cadre financier pluriannuel, Monsieur le Ministre, ne se fera que s'il contient des ressources propres conséquentes.
Plusieurs États membres ont pourtant déjà appelé à des coupes. Mais tous se tournent vers l'Europe pour plus d'investissements. Alors que devrions-nous couper ? Notre défense, notre politique agricole commune, notre compétitivité, notre santé ? Les citoyens demandent plus de l'Europe et nous devons être à la hauteur.
Un budget européen conséquent est donc essentiel pour continuer à garantir les politiques européennes, mais aussi répondre aux enjeux à venir comme la défense ou l'adaptation climatique. C'est pour cela que j'appelle, Monsieur le Ministre, le Conseil à inclure dans la négobox que vous nous livrez dans quelques jours un budget réaliste avec des ressources propres conséquentes, un budget européen fort et à la hauteur des défis auxquels nous devons faire face. Je vous remercie.
Thank you. A budget, as we've talked about so many times, is simply a tool that plans our way ahead to the future.
Rasmus Nordqvist
Our interim report from this spring called for a budget with the future in clear view, prioritizing climate, nature, social justice, and competitiveness with a clear global dimension together with, of course, continuing of the traditional areas. The Council's reaction until now has been predictable, same procedure as every year, each country their priority. But what Europe needs, it's not 27 individual budgets, it's one European budget. We need to live up to our obligations, repay loans we have taken, and we need to deliver what is expected by Europeans, investments in the youth. We need to, to, to invest of course in innovation, competitiveness, in our local communities, in food safety and health, in climate action, adaptation, the biodiversity and environment.
This is what is expected from us. And in order to do that, we need the Council to work with us, but we also need this House to work together. And here I call for the pro-European parties. We have a task ahead of us. We need a strong budget, but we also need strong regulations around this budget.
And here the reform and regulation is key. It's a simplifying tool, at the same time it's a very strong tool. It has a strong notion of the do no significant harm, of the green spending. And in order to have a strong budget and point our fingers to the Council, we point at ourselves, and here we have a task to deliver on. I look forward for the job.
Thank you.
The next speaker on behalf of the Left is João Oliveira.
Thank you.
João Oliveira
Obrigado, Presidente, Senhor Comissário Šefčovič, Senhor representante do Conselho Europeu. Saiam à rua e digam às pessoas que estão a preparar um quadro financeiro plurianual que é um orçamento milionário para a indústria do armamento e com cortes na coesão, cortes nos apoios aos agricultores, aos pescadores, nas verbas destinadas às regiões ultraperiféricas. Saiam à rua, digam tudo isto às pessoas, oiçam aquilo que o povo vos tem a dizer e confrontem essas opiniões depois com a proposta de orçamento que estão a preparar. Vão constatar aquilo que temos dito desde a primeira hora. Esta proposta de quadro financeiro plurianual não serve os povos, não serve a resposta aos problemas sociais, não serve a necessidade de garantir o desenvolvimento.
Esta proposta acentua assimetrias e desigualdades entre Estados, não apenas na forma que prevê para a distribuição dos fundos, mas também na forma como se prepara para compor o orçamento.
Porque a discussão que está a ser feita a propósito dos novos recursos próprios da União Europeia vai obrigatoriamente acentuar assimetrias e desigualdades nos Estados, obrigando os Estados menos desenvolvidos a assumirem contribuições mais significativas para o orçamento da União Europeia. É uma proposta de orçamento que sujeita os Estados-Membros à imposição de políticas pela Comissão Europeia e à chantagem da lógica dos fundos pelas reformas, de os Estados só receberem os fundos a que têm direito se cumprirem as obrigações que lhes são impostas pela Comissão do ponto de vista da imposição das políticas que devem seguir. É um orçamento que é um euromilhões de fundos para a guerra e para a indústria do armamento, mas que sacrifica os fundos da coesão e as políticas que são necessárias para dar resposta às necessidades sociais e que secundariza as necessidades dos povos. Concluo, senhora presidente, dizendo que é inadmissível dizer a um povo que só tem direito aos transportes, às comunicações ou ao investimento público na habitação se isso corresponder também aos investimentos na guerra e no militarismo.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you, the next speaker on behalf of ESN is Siegbert Droese. Bitte schön, Herr Droese.
Werte Kollegen, um es gleich vorweg zu sagen, wir werden Deutschlands Zahlmeisterei beenden, weil diese EU nicht reformierbar ist. Die Verträge müssen neu verhandelt werden. Die entscheidende Frage lautet für uns: Soll die EU künftig über ein immer größeres Budget und neue Einnahmequellen verfügen? Unsere Antwort ist klar: Europa braucht die souveränen Nationen, vor allem in puncto Budgetpolitik. Die EU hat übrigens kein Einnahmen-, sondern ein Ausgabenproblem.
Und wer Haushaltslöcher mit EU-Steuern, Eigenmitteln und jahrelang Gemeinschaftsschulden stopfen will, zieht aus dem jahrelangen Versagen der Eurokraten die falschen Schlüsse.
Statt neue Belastungen zu erfinden, müssen endlich die Ausgaben auf den Prüfstand. Wir fordern deshalb im ersten Schritt eine deutliche Verkleinerung des Haushalts um mindestens 30 Prozent. Das Gleiche gilt für die Verwaltung, strikter Stellenstopp, Auflösung überflüssiger Behörden, ideologischer Förderprogramme für NGOs und schuldenfinanzierter EU-Fonds. All das muss weg. Es muss Schluss sein mit den Eigenmitteln.
Wer einem EU-Budget mit Eigenmitteln den Weg ebnet, der entmachtet die Mitgliedstaaten. Das werden wir nicht länger zulassen. Budgethoheit ist nationale und politische Souveränität. Vielen Dank.
Danuše Nerudová
Als Nächste Rednerin Danuše Nerudová.
Dear colleagues, I believe we should come back to the basics. We are in a global race for new technologies and we are not winning it. We have a war next door, we desperately need investments in our regions and in the young generation. So I am mesmerized when I see member states wanting to amputate EU budget when we need it most. This is not serious politics.
What we decide now will have an impact for the decade to come.
Parliament wants a strong budget and we have put forward a solution to maintain its ambition by repaying our past debts. Three concrete new own resources are on the table. They will create a level playing field, bring more transparency and generate substantial revenues. It's now up to our leaders to be bold and to adopt them. Otherwise, they will have to explain to farmers, to people in our regions and to students why the funds are empty.
And this will not be the responsibility of Brussels. This will be their own inability to take a decision. Thank you.
Mrs. Nerudová, there is a blue card from Mr. Ros Sempere.
Gracias, presidenta. I will wait for... Thank you. Gracias, presidenta. Colega, me alegra coincidir con usted.
Usted dice que necesitamos un presupuesto sólido y este Parlamento yo creo que tiene que hacer valer su voz, pero defender la posición del Parlamento Europeo aquí en el Parlamento Europeo es fácil.
Marcos Ros Sempere
Lo que yo creo que será más difícil y más importante hacerlo cuando llegue la negociación con el Consejo. Por eso mi pregunta es: ¿podemos contar con el Partido Popular Europeo para defender hasta el final un presupuesto ambicioso, una política de cohesión independiente y con presupuesto propio? ¿Podemos contar con ustedes para que la posición de esta Cámara sea defendida con fortaleza en las negociaciones? Muchas gracias.
Danuše Nerudová
Of course, and I'm going to defend a strong position of EPP as I was always defending through the trilogue as for example with ETS2.
Speaker 19
Thank you very much. And now we come to the next speaker, Sandra Gómez López.
Sandra Gómez López
Gracias, presidenta, queridos colegas. Seamos claros: sin nuevos recursos propios va a ser muy difícil acercarnos siquiera a la posición que ha mantenido el Parlamento Europeo respecto al marco financiero. No es realista pensar que aumentando solo las contribuciones nacionales se pueda cubrir la diferencia.
Sin nuevos ingresos, va a aprobarse un marco financiero que aumente los recortes en agricultura y cohesión, como han propuesto públicamente algunos países, mientras aumenta solo el gasto en defensa y control de fronteras. Y mire, al Consejo le quiero decir claro: este Parlamento dice no a esa Europa. Así que escúcheme atentamente. Más allá de las preferencias que cada país pueda tener sobre la propuesta concreta de cada recurso, el Parlamento solo va a aceptar un paquete de al menos de 60.000 millones al año. Pueden hacerlo con la tasa digital, con el juego online o con la cesta de la Comisión Europea.
Y si tienen una nueva idea, bienvenida sea, pero lleguen a esa cifra. Y lo decimos muy claro: el Parlamento no va a desligar la negociación del gasto de los ingresos y va a ser una parte indispensable el paquete de recursos propios para que el Parlamento Europeo dé sí a la propuesta del marco financiero. Porque sí, queremos una Europa capaz de defenderse, pero también capaz de cuidar a su gente. Y eso solo puede lograrse con un paquete de nuevos recursos propios. We cannot do more with less.
Gracias.
Enikő Győri
Képviselőtársaim, már a Bizottság eredeti javaslata is túl alacsony főösszeget határozott meg, amelyen a Tanács tovább vágott. Érthetetlen módon Magyar Péter kormánya ehhez asszisztál. A Parlamentnek ragaszkodnia kellene az elfogadott állásponthoz, a 10%-os főösszeg-emeléshez. Hogy is mehetnénk neki ennyi új kihívásnak egy alacsonyabb büdzsével? El kell utasítani az agrárpénzek 20%-os visszavágását és a felzárkóztatási források csökkentését.
Nem kockáztathatjuk az európaiak biztonságos élelmiszerellátását, és belső kohézió erősítése nélkül nincs összeurópai versenyképesség sem. Elfogadhatatlan továbbá, hogy az uniós pénzeket a Bizottság politikai alapon, kénye-kedve szerint folyósíthassa a jövőben. Aki beáll a sorba, kap, aki nem, az üres kézzel távozik. Az Európai Számvevőszék is felrótta a Bizottságnak, hogy átláthatatlanul kezelte a helyreállítási forrásokat, most pedig az összes pénz politikai zsarolóeszközzé válna. Ezt el kell utasítani, a cél nem más, mint a szuverenista kormányok ellehetetlenítése.
Nagyon egyértelmű. Végezetül úgy tűnik, hogy a Tanács új adókat is akar a Bizottsággal és néhányukkal közösen.
Kérem ezt ne tegyék, az európaiaknak nem kellenek új adók, azok csak elnyomorítják őket, a bevételekhez megvan az eddigi jól bevált módszer. Köszönöm.
Kinga Kollár
Yes.
Please.
Köszönöm szépen. Képviselő asszony azt állítja, hogy a Tisza nem támogatja a nagyobb költségvetést. Ezt honnan veszi? A Tisza a Néppárt részeként mindig is a magasabb költségvetés mellett állt ki. Miért állít folyamatosan hazugságokat ebben a teremben?
Köszönöm.
Képviselő asszony, mielőtt lehazugoz, olvasson. Olvassa el, hogy a kohéziós országok milyen levelet küldtek közösen, abban úgy tudom, hogy Magyarország is benne van, amely elfogadja egy bizonyos főösszeg csökkentést. Olvassa el, és akkor megtudja a pontos számokat. Köszönöm szépen.
Grazie Presidente, Ministro, Commissario.
Ruggero Razza
Il Parlamento attende sabato la presentazione della prossima bozza negoziale e l'attende perché vogliamo comprendere fino in fondo se gli obiettivi che molti Stati hanno indicato saranno mantenuti nella proposta che a loro arriverà in sede di Consiglio. Alcuni giorni fa l'Italia con il Presidente del Consiglio Giorgia Meloni, la Romania e con loro altri 15 Stati dell'Unione Europea hanno chiesto, in linea con quello che il Parlamento ha già detto, che la politica di coesione e la politica agricola non subiscano tagli nel nuovo quadro finanziario pluriennale. Ci attendiamo e speriamo che la bozza negoziale possa recepire questi obiettivi. Abbiamo condiviso e condividiamo la necessità ambiziosa di un quadro finanziario che si occupi di competitività, di sicurezza e di difesa e riteniamo che debba finalmente affrontare, e da questo attendiamo risposta alla bozza negoziale, un diverso metodo rispetto a quello proposto alla Commissione per il rimborso di Next Generation EU. Ultimo tema: risorse proprie.
Non chiedete soldi alle imprese. Rispetto ad un anno fa viviamo una condizione economica che questo non lo consente certamente. Grazie.
João Oliveira
Senhor Deputado Razza, a posição do governo da senhora Meloni, afinal de contas, mostra bem aquilo ao que vem a extrema-direita. Fazem discursos muito inflamados sobre a defesa dos povos, sobre a soberania dos Estados, mas preparam-se para viabilizar um orçamento orientado para a guerra, que sacrifica os direitos dos povos para financiar a indústria do armamento e que não tem respeito nenhum pela soberania dos povos, nem na resposta às necessidades que as pessoas estão a atravessar, nem sequer na consideração da soberania dos Estados, por exemplo, em matéria fiscal, em relação à qual se estão a preparar para mandar para a borda fora com a discussão sobre os novos recursos próprios. E a pergunta que lhe faço, senhor deputado, com posições como estas da senhora Meloni, como é que a extrema-direita quer ganhar credibilidade que é diferente dos partidos que conduzem os destinos da política de direita?
Obrigado, Presidente.
Ruggero Razza
È una posizione molto ideologica la sua, collega, ed è ideologica quando pensa che occuparsi della sicurezza dei cittadini significhi non andare incontro alle loro esigenze. Lo dica agli agricoltori che in questo momento hanno visto triplicare il costo dei fertilizzanti per quello che si sta verificando nelle acque del Mediterraneo.
Dear colleagues, Europe is facing the most insecure times in generations. Russia is intensifying attacks on Ukraine, our infrastructure is being targeted, China is rightly identified by this Parliament as an enabler of the Russia's war, and we can unfortunately no longer rely on American security guarantees anymore. People are afraid and people are scared.
And what we are doing here? We are discussing the cuts of billions of euros to the common EU's budget. People actually want more Europe. People are asking for this security. So I really have one message for you guys as well.
Please go to the Council, go to your leaders, go to the summit and fight for more ambitious Europe, more ambitious budget. Find even own resources, unblock it. This is not the time to cut our shield, it is time to actually strengthen it.
Rasmus Andresen
Vielen Dank. Keinen neuen Finanzrahmen zu haben, ist für Deutschland die mit Abstand günstigste Lösung. Mit diesen Worten rennt der deutsche Bundeskanzler Friedrich Merz gerade durch die europäischen Hauptstädte und probiert Unterstützung für seinen Kürzungskurs zu organisieren. Ich will das ganz deutlich sagen: Mit solchen Aussagen macht Kanzler Merz Europa kaputt.
Er ignoriert die Sorgen von Menschen, die am Ende des Monats Probleme haben, ihre Rechnung zu zahlen, beispielsweise in der Wohnpolitik durch immer höhere Mieten. Er ignoriert die Proteste, die zu Recht auch hier in Frankreich auf der Straße stattfinden, in der Bildungspolitik. Und er ignoriert den Frust über die wirtschaftliche Entwicklung. Und er schadet der Europäischen Union mit diesem Kürzungskurs. Aber in einem Punkt hat Friedrich Merz recht, nämlich mit der Frage, wer eigentlich für den Haushalt die Rechnung zahlt.
Aber anders als er wollen wir nicht, dass die junge Generation, dass Menschen, die von sozialen Projekten abhängig sind, oder dass die Landwirte die Rechnung zahlen, sondern dass die Digitalkonzerne, die Glücksspielindustrie und die Wettanbieter die Rechnung zahlen, indem sie mehr Eigenmittel zahlen. Deshalb setzen wir uns dafür ein und wir wünschen uns, dass sich dieser Kurs durchsetzt. Vielen Dank.
Mr Andresen, there is a blue card from Dick Erixon. Do you accept it?
Yeah, sure, but I think I need translation if it's not in English. Is it here?
Unterm Tisch liegt das rechts. Never tried this before. Okay. Yes.
Dick Erixon
Bra.
Bra, nämen du pratar om att det är allvarligt att Merz och andra länder föreslår neddragningar av den här budgeten. Jag skulle vilja fråga, EU:s upplåning vid början av det här året var 739 miljarder euro, en åttadubbling på fem år. Är inte detta allvarligt, att vi har en utveckling där vi gör mer än vi har resurser till?
Rasmus Andresen
Ich will, also ich habe wenig Frage, aber viel Meinung gehört, und das ist auch völlig okay. Ich will aber noch mal deutlich machen, dass ich glaube, dass es Wege gibt, dafür zu sorgen, dass die Mitgliedstaaten gar nicht viel höhere Beiträge zahlen müssen, aber wir auf der anderen Seite einen schlagkräftigen Haushalt bekommen. Und der Weg sind halt neue Eigenmittel, und ich würde gerade von Mitgliedstaaten wie der deutschen Bundesregierung, aber beispielsweise auch der schwedischen Regierung erwarten, dass sie sich dafür öffnen und den Weg einschlagen, auch im Bereich der Eigenmittel zu mehr Gerechtigkeit zu führen. Man kann nicht am Sonntag sagen, dass Europa stärker werden muss, und am Montag dann das Gegenteil machen und probieren, dafür Mehrheiten zu organisieren. Das ist mein Appell hier aus dem Parlament im Rat, und ich glaube, dass wir hier als Parlament auch gemeinsam gut aufgestellt sind.
Vielen Dank.
Thomas Geisel
Frau Präsidentin, Herr Minister, Herr Kommissar, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, um einen ehrgeizigen Finanzrahmen für ein starkes Europa soll es in dieser Debatte gehen.
Die Frage ist nur: Was macht Europa stark? Über zwei Billionen Euro, die über die Brüsseler Kommissionsbürokratie gedreht werden sollen? Über 500 Milliarden neuer vergemeinschafteter Schulden? Immer mehr Macht für die Kommission und immer weniger Mitsprache für das Parlament? Maßgeschneiderte Deals zwischen Kommission und Mitgliedstaaten statt einheitlicher Regeln für den gemeinsamen Markt?
Ich befürchte, damit machen wir Europa nicht stark, sondern zu einem bürokratischen Apparat, der kaum noch kontrollierbar ist. Wenn wir Europa wirklich stark machen wollen, brauchen wir keinen Förderdschungel und keine bürokratische Regelungswut, sondern faire Wettbewerbsbedingungen, unter denen sich unternehmerische Initiative entfalten kann. Natürlich braucht Europa Geld für die Verringerung des Wohlstandsgefälles in der Union, für die Sicherung unserer Außengrenzen und für die gemeinsame Agrarpolitik. Aber mit diesem MFR-Entwurf, so befürchte ich, führt Frau von der Leyen Europa in den politischen und finanziellen Ruin. Vielen Dank.
Thomas Geisel
Hab ich natürlich erwartet. Herr Sieper äußert sich immer gerne zu meinen Beiträgen.
Lukas Sieper
Ich äußere mich gerne, das Parlament erlaubt es nicht immer. Herr Geisel, ich höre Ihnen einfach sehr gerne zu. Sie sagen immer dermaßen interessante und kreative Sachen.
Sie haben sehr ausführlich über die sogenannte Regelungswut und die Bürokratie der Kommission gesprochen. In Ihrer Vision von Europa, sollte die Kommission sich dann nicht zu einer gewissen Art von einer Regierung entwickeln, anstatt einfach nur eine Behörde zu bleiben? Und ist das dann nicht das, was Europa stark macht? Danke.
Thomas Geisel
In meiner Vision von Europa liegt bei in Europa in erster Linie die Regelungskompetenz, aber nicht die Verwaltungskompetenz. Ich glaube, wir brauchen in der Tat gemeinsame Regeln für einen gemeinsamen Markt, denn wir sind ein gemeinsamer Markt. Ich bin nicht sicher, dass es richtig ist, immer mehr Geld über die Kommission zu drehen, denn ich war mal Oberbürgermeister und hatte es mit dem Förderdschungel der Europäischen Union zu tun. Ich glaube, vieles von dem Geld, was über Europa gegenwärtig läuft, würde wesentlich effizienter, wesentlich transparenter und übrigens auch wesentlich demokratischer ausgegeben werden, wenn dafür die Kommunen beispielsweise, die Regionen oder auch die Mitgliedstaaten zuständig wären.
Speaker 40
Es gibt noch die Nachfrage. Herr Sieper kann's nicht lassen. Bitte schön, Herr Sieper.
Lukas Sieper
Das ist das Schöne, ne, bei parlamentarischen Rechten. Man kann die ausüben, ohne dafür eine weitere Begründung liefern zu müssen. Herr Geisel, Sie sagten, die Regelungskompetenz sollte in Europa liegen, aber nicht die Verwaltungskompetenz. Und dann haben Sie über Effizienz gesprochen.
Da frage ich mich doch, wie es effizienter sein soll, wenn wir 27 verschiedene nationale Systeme haben, die dieselben Regeln umsetzen. Und in diesen 27 nationalen Systemen dann noch mal gegebenenfalls föderale Systeme und dann noch mal gegebenenfalls kommunale Systeme. Also ist es nicht diese Vielschichtigkeit, diese allzu vielen föderalen Ebenen, die das Ganze dann ineffizient und auch ungerecht machen für die Bürgerinnen und Bürger Europas?
Thomas Geisel
Richtig, ich glaube, wir haben in der Bundesrepublik, die Bundesrepublik ist eine föderale Republik, eine Bundesrepublik, sehr gute Erfahrungen gemacht, dass der Bund die Gesetze macht und die Länder die Gesetze ausführen. Und ich glaube, das wäre auch das richtige Prinzip für Europa. Vielen Dank.
Karlo Ressler
Vielen Dank, als nächstes Karlo Ressler.
Europsko okruženje dramatično je različito nego što je bilo 2018. kada je predložen aktualni višegodišnji financijski okvir. Svijet 2034. izgledat će još više drugačije, svjetska utakmica bit će brža jer ulazimo u opasnije, u nemilosrdnije vrijeme.
Sa borbom za tehnologiju, za energiju, za premoć koja će biti još snažnija. U takvom svijetu Europska unija može biti otporna samo ako sačuva zajedništvo, samo ako sačuva solidarnost koja je izgradila Europu i sposobnost da kada je to potrebno nadiđe uske nacionalne sebičnosti. Nema većeg testa za to od pregovora o višegodišnjem financijskom okviru, oko toga nema dileme, ali je također činjenica da ne možemo imati sigurnost, da ne možemo imati sigurnost naših granica, konkurentnije gospodarstvo i tehnološku neovisnost, a Europi dati manje sredstava za djelovanje. Ako želimo biti relevantni, potrebno je i ulagati u sigurnost, potrebno je ulagati u vlastitu proizvodnju hrane, ali isto tako snažno potaknuti europsku industriju. Nove prioritete međutim nećemo moći i nema ih smisla financirati slabljenjem onoga što već dokazano djeluje.
To znači da je ključno i da je imperativ očuvati snažnu kohezijsku i poljoprivrednu politiku, ali isto tako kroz nacionalne planove osigurati da dođe do stvarnog pojednostavljenja za sve. Zato, za očuvanje Europu kakvu poznajemo, za očuvanje Europu kakvu želimo, treba nam jedinstvo ispred podjela i zajednički interesi ispred nacionalnih egoizama.
Thank you, the next speaker is Jean-Marc Germain.
Jean-Marc Germain
Chers collègues, j'entends dire que la présidence irlandaise du Conseil s'apprête à confirmer et amplifier la baisse drastique des fonds sociaux et de cohésion au prochain Conseil. Vous rendez-vous compte, Monsieur le Ministre, du message que vous allez envoyer aux Européens au moment où des centaines de milliers d'ouvriers perdent leur emploi, victimes de la mondialisation sauvage, au moment où des régions entières succombent au déclin démographique et au désespoir, vous allez leur dire : "nous vous coupons les aides européennes". Vous voulez vraiment laisser sombrer les services publics, les hôpitaux et les écoles dont ils dépendent ? Il est grand temps que vous écoutiez enfin les parlementaires de tout bord dans cette chambre. Vous ne pouvez pas continuer à négocier comme si nous n'existions pas, car à la fin, il faudra compter sur nos voix et vous savez très bien qu'aujourd'hui le compte n'y est pas.
Sacrifier les politiques de cohésion n'est pas une option. Si vous décidez d'ouvrir des nouveaux champs d'action, défense spatiale, cleantech, digital, très bien, mais il faut les financer par de nouvelles ressources propres. Et si vous ne le faites pas, l'histoire retiendra que vous avez été les premiers à engager le déclin de l'Europe. Je vous remercie.
Klara Dostalova
The next speaker is Klára Dostálová.
Vážení kolegové, kdyby se evropská konkurenceschopnost dala zachránit prohlášeními, byli bychom světovou velmocí. Když Komise představila nový víceletý finanční rámec, byl tento parlament plný silných slov. Nepřijatelné, centralizace, ohrožení koheze, málo peněz a hlavně červené linie. Poslanci tohoto parlamentu poslali přes 7 000 pozměňovacích návrhů. Jenže jakmile přišel skutečný politický tlak, červené linie začaly mizet.
Jednou se bojíme politické krize, podruhé voleb a příště se budeme bát čeho? Tak se ptám, kdy přesně smí Evropský parlament hájit své vlastní stanovisko? Jen když nejsou volby, když nehrozí politické důsledky, když nás to nic nestojí? Protože červená linie, kterou posunete pokaždé, když začne být politicky nepohodlná, není červená linie, ale červený koberec pro Komisi. A nezapomínejme, proč tady sedíme.
Klara Dostalova
Nejsme tady proto, abychom chránili svoji vlastní politickou kůži. Jsme tady proto, abychom hájili zájmy občanů a podniků Evropské unie. A ti nepotřebují velká prohlášení, potřebují investice, železnice, silnice.
Vypadá to, že největším problémem nebude nedostatek peněz, ale ohnutá parlamentní páteř. Děkuji.
Thank you. The next speaker is Roberts Zīle.
Roberts Zīle
Priekšsēdētājas kundze, ministru kungs, komisāra kungs. Šodienas debatēs temats skan lieliski, ja, par ambiciozu daudzgadu budžetu, kas Eiropu padarīs stipru un noturīgu. Skan jau lieliski, bet vai tam var ticēt mūsu pilsoņi, globālie konkurenti un arī nedraugi? Nē, jo mēs tikai patiesībā runājam par nelielu naudas apjomu, kas ir tikai nedaudz vairāk kā viens procents no nacionāliem produktiem, un kur vairākas valdības vēlas samazināt zem viena procenta. Un mainīt budžeta struktūru, mainot tā budžeta struktūru, mēs paliekam uz mazākām valstīm smagos lēmumus, kam nogriezt vairāk zemniekiem vai kohēzijai, varbūt nogriezt izdevumus Eiropas Savienības ārējās robežas sargāšanai.
Eiropas Komisija izveidoja lielisku programmu, Eiropas austrumu robežreģionu programmu. Tas ir valstīm, kas robežojas ar Krieviju, Baltkrieviju, Ukrainu. Bet naudas šajā daudzgadu budžetā tur nav. Ja tā paliks, tad šīm valstīm vēl vairāk būs jānoņem zemniekiem vai kohēzijai, vai arī, lai būtu kaut cik noturīgai un stiprai pret Krievijas veiktajām provokācijām, nenogriezt šiem jautājumiem.
Mr. Zīle, there's a blue card from Mr. Dzhambazki. Mr. Dzhambazki.
Michał Szczerba
Szanowny panie pośle, pracujemy razem nad ważną regulacją, mianowicie mobilnością wojskową. I stąd przede wszystkim wspólny apel, żeby realizując te negocjacje budżetowe, negobox, nie dokonywać jakichkolwiek cięć, które mogłyby uderzyć w bezpieczeństwo, w mobilność wojskową, w nowy Europejski Fundusz Konkurencyjności z komponentem bezpieczeństwa, jak i w instrument Łącząc Europę, gdzie mamy 18 miliardów euro na mobilność wojskową.
Roberts Zīle
Yeah, thank you, colleague. So really, this military mobility is part of the next budget, seven years budget. That's why if there is a temptation cuts for military mobility part or Connecting Europe Facility money, I think it's a totally wrong direction to show for our enemies how serious we are on this military mobility issues. And with regulation, we of course will cut all the low-hanging fruits, meaning obstacles which are currently delay military mobility in Europe. So but we need definitely investment money to improve it.
Mr. Zīle, there was a second blue card from Mrs. Grapini.
Maria Grapini
Mulțumesc, stimate coleg, ați explicat că de fapt nu e nimic clar în acest nou CFM. Întrebarea mea este, pentru că tocmai vin de la o discuție pe agricultură, considerați că nedelimitarea concretă a bugetului pentru agricultură, așa cum era în politica agricolă comună, poate să fie benefică sau creează probleme pentru că în anumite state probabil la fermieri nu se mai ajung banii? Cum considerați că este bine să se delimiteze un buget special pentru agricultură, pentru că altfel este un risc extrem de mare să nu mai avem o politică agricolă comună și să nu mai putem să schimbăm generațional fermierii și să nu mai avem siguranță alimentară? Mulțumesc.
Yeah, well, colleague, you are right. So we put with this new structure, which was I think it's over, then are we national regional partnership plans where would be envelopes for member states. And member states have to make this very difficult choices between farmers and cohesion and other needs from say security point of view, for example.
So that's why I guess it's unfair at the end, but I think it's this fight is lost, but war is not lost for the MFF. And it can create this because agriculture, if it will be subsidized at different member states on different level, it creates in a single market for agriculture products what unfair competition. That's true.
Elsi Katainen
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Elsi Katainen.
Kiitos puhemies, hyvä komissaari. EU:n monivuotisen rahoituskehyksen neuvottelutilanne on valitettavan sekava. Mielestäni liian iso, lähes tuplaantunut budjetti ei tunnu riittävän läheskään kaikkiin tarpeisiin, samalla kun uusia varoja on näköjään lähes mahdotonta löytää. Itselleni NRRP:n yhtenä raportoijana vahvan maatalouden ja myös aluekehityksen rahoituksen varmistaminen ovat keskeisiä asioita. Maatalous on osa huoltovarmuutta ja osa Euroopan kilpailukykyä.
Sitä korosti myös komissio itse maatalouden visiossaan, jonka ylevät tavoitteet eivät konkretisoidu komission rahoituskehyksessä. Mihin ne unohtuivat? Maatalouden leikkaukset, arkkitehtuurin muutos, korvamerkintöjen vähentäminen sekä yhden kirjekuoren malli jäsenmaille ovat saaneet syystäkin kritiikkiä.
Meillä tulee olemaan käsissämme 27 erilaista maatalouden rahoitusmallia, jolloin yhteisestä maataloudesta ja maatalouspolitiikasta ei voida enää puhua. Oliko se komission tarkoitus ja ollaanko siitä seurauksia mietitty? Kiitos.
Caro commissario, le faccio una domanda. Dove deve andare a partorire una donna quando l'ospedale chiude il reparto di maternità? A Valdagno, dove ho partorito, rischia di succedere per mancanza di fondi. Una donna incinta dovrà mettersi in macchina e sperare di arrivare in tempo in un reparto sovraffollato. E non succede solo da noi.
Succede in migliaia di territori europei marginali. Chiude l'ospedale, chiude la scuola, sparisce l'autobus, poi ci stupiamo se i paesi si svuotano. Ma nessuno se ne va per scegliere. In Italia il 67% dei giovani delle aree interne vuole rimanere. Non gli manca la voglia.
Gli manca tutto il resto. Non è il destino a svuotare i paesi. Sono le scelte che facciamo e quelle che non facciamo.
Cristina Guarda
Il prossimo bilancio europeo è nelle nostre mani e noi Verdi non abbiamo intenzione di lasciare nessuno ai margini, specie i luoghi dove vivono quasi 100 milioni di europei. Chiediamo che le aree rurali abbiano risorse certe e vincolate che nessuno possa togliere per ospedali, trasporti, scuole, case e per affrontare la crisi climatica perché restare deve essere un diritto, non un privilegio. Grazie.
Speaker 59
Frau Präsidentin, meine sehr verehrten Damen und Herren, wir sind ja im Grunde da, wo wir zu diesem Zeitpunkt immer sind. Der Rat kann sich nicht entscheiden, ist er frugal oder besteht er aus Freunden der Kohäsion? Wir im Parlament fordern mehr Geld, die Linken sogar sehr, sehr viel mehr Geld, die rechte Seite möchte deutlich weniger ausgeben, also alles wie immer. Und dann sollten wir uns an der Stelle mal fragen, was passiert eigentlich, wenn jetzt nicht die Vernunft siegt? Wir werden sektorale Verordnungen auslaufen sehen, wir haben keine Rechtsgrundlage für neue Mittelbindung, das betrifft die Gemeinsame Agrarpolitik, das betrifft Horizon, das betrifft auch die Ukraine-Fazilität.
Wir werden trotzdem die NextGenerationEU-Tilgung haben, das wird Programmmittel verdrängen. Und schauen wir mal, was die Märkte vermutlich machen werden, wenn wir uns nicht einigen können. Wir werden Spread-Ausweitungen haben, wir werden die Ratingagenturen haben, die darauf reagieren. Wir werden sehen, dass Europa sein Safe-Asset-Narrativ verliert als sicherer Hafen. Da ist auch nicht mehr viel mit souveränen Nationen übrigens, dann gibt's nur noch souveräne Banken.
Wir werden sehen, dass Forscherinnen und Forscher abwandern werden. Wir werden zwar weiterhin Europäerinnen und Europäer haben, die Nobelpreise gewinnen, aber eben weiter in den USA oder verstärkt in Zukunft in Asien. Wir werden sehen, dass wir Assoziierungsabkommen mit Dritten wieder neu verhandeln müssen. Wir werden sehen, dass es Renationalisierungstendenzen weiter geben wird. Es wird Unsicherheiten bei den Direktzahlungen geben, Bauernproteste, all das wird die Realität sein.
Und deshalb, meine Damen und Herren, sollten wir hier in der Mitte des Parlaments raus aus den Schützengräben, wir sollten der Vernunft eine Chance geben. Dafür sind wir gewählt. Vielen Dank für die Aufmerksamkeit.
Sabine Verheyen
Ja, wir können eine Fragestunde draus machen, wenn Sie wollen.
Einmal von Herrn Ecke, einmal von Herrn Sieper und einmal von Herrn Tinkinen. Wenn Sie mir sagen, welche Sie akzeptieren, dann weiß ich, wie viele ich drannehmen muss.
Ich nehme alle bitte, alles gut.
Speaker 64
Gut, dann Herr Ecke. Aber bitte auf die Zeit achten, sonst sprengt das.
Ich hab genau nur... ja, vielen Dank, Herr Kollege. Sie haben gerade sehr eindrücklich die Gefahren beschrieben, die so ein Scheitern der Verhandlungen mit sich bringen würde, und Sie setzen sich dafür auch sehr redlich ein, dass uns hier ein Kompromiss gelingt.
Aber was sagen Sie denn zu den wirklich provokanten Äußerungen von Bundeskanzler Merz, der meint, na ja, so ein Scheitern der EU-Haushaltsverhandlungen für Deutschland wäre das ja die günstigste Option, da kommen wir irgendwie am besten weg, wenn der ganze Kram explodiert. Was sagen Sie denn zu so einem Verhalten des Bundeskanzlers, der ja eigentlich einen Kompromiss zusammenführen sollte?
Speaker 59
Also Sie haben ja mitbekommen, dass der Kern meiner Rede war, dass wir es nicht scheitern lassen dürfen, und ich bin sicher, Sie können das interpretieren. Im Übrigen weiß ich auch, und am Sonntag sitzen wir auch wieder zusammen mit dem Bundeskanzler, dass es ohne Deutschland nicht wirklich funktionieren wird als wichtiger Teil der Europäischen Union. Ich bin sicher, dass Deutschland sich auch daran beteiligen wird, eine gute Lösung zu finden. Und wie gesagt, die Tatsache, dass ich extra darauf hingewiesen habe, dass wir eine Lösung brauchen, können Sie sicherlich gut interpretieren.
Vielen Dank, Herr Kollege, dass Sie die blaue Karte akzeptiert haben. Ich werde Ihnen nicht den Gefallen tun wie der Herr Ecke und Sie zu Ihrem eigenen Bundeskanzler fragen, ist ja auch mein Bundeskanzler. Ich habe eine ganz direkte Frage und würde mich wirklich freuen, wenn Sie da auch direkt drauf antworten. Sind Sie persönlich für einen niedrigeren, einen gleichbleibenden oder einen höheren EU-Haushalt? Dankeschön.
Speaker 59
Ich bin für einen moderaten Anstieg, der das macht, was wir machen müssen.
Ich bin nicht der Meinung, dass die die Summe an sich und deswegen antworte ich ungern wirklich konkret auf die Frage, weil ich weg will von dieser Fixierung auf den Betrag, dass wir viel stärker dahin kommen zu sagen, wer kann was auf welcher Ebene am sinnvollsten machen. Wir haben große Aufgaben vor uns, die Europäische Union wird einen großen Teil davon abdecken müssen und insofern glaube ich, dass es viel wichtiger ist, als über den Betrag zu reden, über die Aufgaben zu reden. Wir haben große Aufgaben, ist mehrfach genannt worden, insbesondere beim Thema Sicherheit, Verteidigung, Wettbewerbsfähigkeit, das würde ich als EVP-Vertreter immer in den Mittelpunkt stellen und deshalb lassen uns wegkommen von der Betragsdiskussion.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
I'll speak in Finnish. Oikeistopuolueet, kuten EPP perinteisesti ovat ajaneet tiukkaa talouskuria ja vastustaneet löysää rahankäyttöä. Nyt ymmärsin, että olette puolustamassa tätä rahankasvua EU:ssa. Eikö ole niin, että kolmasosa budjetista, joka menee ilmastorahoitukseen, niin on aivan liikaa? Emmekö voisi sieltä tehdä priorisointeja ja rahoittaa niitä tärkeitä hankkeita, mitä meillä on esimerkiksi turvallisuuteen liittyen?
Kiitos.
Darf ich eine Gegenfrage stellen, wie Sie auf diese Drittel-Zahl kommen?
Speaker 59
Also, natürlich ist Klimaschutz ein wichtiger Aspekt und natürlich ist Sicherheit und Verteidigung ein wichtiger Punkt. Ich glaube auch, dass diese Dinge nicht gegeneinander ausgespielt werden sollten. Dass wir als EVP, habe ich ja eben gerade gesagt, insbesondere das Thema Wettbewerbsfähigkeit und Verteidigung in den Mittelpunkt stellen, ist sehr deutlich. Und ich glaube auch, dass gerade das Thema Wettbewerbsfähigkeit und Klimaschutz auch sinnvoll miteinander verbunden werden können. Deswegen weiß ich nicht, ob wir diese Dinge gegeneinander ausspielen sollten.
Speaker 69
Herr Tynkkynen hat eine Nachfrage, vielleicht kann er da auch gleichzeitig auf Ihre Frage antworten.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Niin, arvoisa kollega, kolmasosa ilmastorahoitukseen. Tämä luku tulee siis komission esityksestä ja olette varmasti lukeneet sen. Priorisointia voidaan tehdä, mutta kyse on arvovalinnoista. Me esimerkiksi konservatiiveissa ajattelemme niin, että nyt on tärkeämpää keskittyä turvallisuuteen ja puolustukseen kuin että näin valtava osa tästä kahden miljardin, kahdentuhannen miljardin esityksestä ohjattaisiin ilmastorahoitukseen. Kiitos.
Speaker 68
Gut, also ich sehe mich als Konservativer und ich glaube, dass die Bewahrung der Schöpfung ein sehr konservatives Gut ist.
Der nächste Redner ist Victor Negrescu.
We are entering the decisive phase of negotiations on the next European long-term budget. This is not only a debate about figures. Across Europe, people are concerned about their incomes, the rising cost of living and housing, and whether their children will have better opportunities. The next European budget must respond to these concerns. Ahead of the European Council, our message is clear: Europe cannot do more with less.
Victor Negrescu
The Irish presidency will shortly present a revised negotiating box. We understand the need for compromise, but it cannot come at the expense of cohesion, agriculture, or social investment. Seventeen European leaders have also stressed that they must remain central pillars of the next MFF, while security, competitiveness, and civil protection should benefit from additional resources. The Party of European Socialists also proposed a more ambitious budget that invests in people, and for that, we need new own resources. This is why we proposed a European levy on online gambling and betting while fighting illegal gambling that can generate billions of euros to finance, in particular, education, health, and youth.
To be clear, we need a stronger budget that will fit the expectations that people have. Thank you.
Thank you very much. As we had already so many blue cards and we are running out of time, otherwise I will close the blue card now. Sorry, but there otherwise I cannot take people from catch the eye. There's just this alternative. So the next speaker is Tobiasz Bocheński.
Tobiasz Bocheński
Szanowni Państwo, rozwój, konkurencyjność i wzrost gospodarczy nie biorą się z biurokracji i nie biorą się z redystrybucji dóbr. Biorą się z pracy, biorą się z działalności kreatywnej, gospodarczej małych, średnich i wielkich przedsiębiorstw. To, co Państwo proponujecie w wieloletnich ramach finansowych, to jest to samo, co zawsze. Nie jest to żadna reforma, żaden nowy kierunek. Tu powinniśmy dyskutować o nowych podatkach, które chcecie wyciągać z kieszeni przedsiębiorców i Europejczyków, zielonych podatkach, które w żaden sposób nie będą przysparzały wzrostu gospodarczego ani konkurencyjności.
Będą za to służyły uniezależnianiu się Komisji Europejskiej od woli państw członkowskich. To nie jest żadna wizja rozwoju Europy.
To jest wizja tego samego, czyli droga ku stagnacji, ku przegrywaniu konkurencji z Chinami i ku przegrywaniu konkurencji ze Stanami Zjednoczonymi. To nie są dobre wieloletnie ramy finansowe, to jest plan wyciągania pieniędzy z kieszeni Europejczyków. Dziękuję bardzo.
Ľubica Karvašová
Pán minister, komisár, kolegovia. Či už prídem na Oravu alebo na Zemplín, vidím množstvo projektov, ktoré zlepšili životy ľudí a ktoré by bez eurofondov nikdy nevznikli. A tak je to aj v Írsku. Práve teraz rozhodujeme nielen o tom, či budeme mať konečne nové vlastné zdroje, ale aj o tom, či tieto eurofondy budú ďalej zlepšovať naše regióny. Ja preto presadzujem tri veci: skutočné partnerstvo s mestami a regiónmi, ich priamy prístup k európskym zdrojom a osobitnú podporu pre regióny na východnej hranici Únie.
A apelujem zároveň na nás všetkých, aby sme mali na prvom mieste potreby našich občanov. Pretože keď vidím, čo sa deje v Rade a medzi členskými štátmi, tak naša úloha tu v Európskom parlamente je mať čo najskôr pozíciu do rokovaní, ktorá bude mať veľmi, veľmi jasný mandát bojovať za silné regióny. Ďakujem.
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Isabel Benjumea Benjumea.
Isabel Benjumea Benjumea
Gracias, presidenta, señor comisario, señor ministro. Desde el Partido Popular tenemos muy claras las prioridades para el próximo presupuesto de la Unión. Debemos reforzar la seguridad en nuestras fronteras para asegurar la libertad y la integridad de nuestros países, luchando contra el crimen organizado y la inmigración ilegal. Tenemos que potenciar nuestra capacidad competitiva para atraer inversiones que generen oportunidades y la creación de empleo, evitando burocracia, facilitando la colaboración con la iniciativa privada y situando en el centro a las pymes. Debemos apoyar al sector primario porque es, y lo subrayo, inadmisible cualquier recorte a la política agraria común.
Y por supuesto, debemos apostar por la cohesión, la política de pesca, la excelencia educativa y la investigadora. Pero hay dos cosas que para nosotros son de vital importancia. La primera es que no nos gusta el diseño de los planes nacionales y la segunda es que no vamos a apoyar que se suban los impuestos a los europeos.
No debemos trasladarles las cargas del repago de la deuda Next Generation a las empresas y a las familias. Por eso apelamos a la responsabilidad de la refinanciación de la deuda. Muchas gracias.
Thank you, Chair, thank you, Commissioner, dear colleagues. There are ministers who believe that we can do more with less. But just look around us. Today's geopolitical reality doesn't ask for a less Europe, but demands a stronger, more resilient Europe. Over the past decades, our dependency and strategic gaps have widened dangerously.
Mohammed Chahim
Today, Europe faces an investment shortage of roughly 800 billion for every single year. In the digital sector, private AI investments in the US are far, far higher than across the entire European Union. In defense, decades of fragmentations have left us, our militaries, dangerously reliant on outside suppliers. And in energy, past dependencies cost our households and industry hundreds of billions when price shocks hit. For too long, we have relied on others for our critical raw materials.
And meanwhile, China and the United States are pouring massive capital into their industries.
Mohammed Chahim
Europe cannot afford to sit on the sideline while our competitors build the future. The proposed budget is not an expense, it's the bare minimum required to secure our strategic autonomy. All while preserving what makes Europe exceptional: helping people in need through the European Social Fund, supporting talent through Erasmus, and empowering our best scientists with a robust research program. When fossil fuel giants rake in, take in record windfall profits while ordinary families struggle to heat their homes, we cannot ask European taxpayers to foot the entire bill. My answer is clear to all austereous ministers: we cannot do more with less.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Monika Hohlmeier. Bitteschön.
Monika Hohlmeier
Frau Präsidentin, Herr Kommissar, liebe Ratspräsidentschaft, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen. Der mehrjährige Finanzrahmen bedeutet für uns, dass wir einiges von dem, was die Kommission vorgelegt hat, natürlich auch korrigieren und als Parlament ergänzen, erweitern, ändern müssen. Es bedeutet, dass wir den Regionen eine eigene Kompetenz geben müssen, über ihre eigene ländliche Entwicklung zum Beispiel zu entscheiden und sie nicht den Hauptstädten zu überlassen, was derzeit nur im Rahmen einer Partnerschaft möglich ist und auch noch koordiniert werden soll. Ich bin einmal gespannt, wie das funktionieren soll.
Es ist bürokratisch und es ist nicht effektiv. Als zweites an die Mitgliedstaaten. Wir haben extrem viel nationalen Egoismus. Weshalb gibt es so wenig Nachdenken darüber, dass manchmal europäische Programme mehr Synergien schaffen als nur nationaler Egoismus, gerade im Bereich der Verteidigung, gerade im Bereich sehr vieler wissenschaftlicher und Forschungsprojekte, die auf europäischer Ebene an der Spitze der Welt vorangetrieben werden. Dann würde ich gerne eine Lüge aufklären.
Ungarn hat nicht zugestimmt, selbst wenn es mir als Deutsche dann vielleicht in der Position nicht passt, aber es ist blank gelogen, dass Ungarn bei der Kohäsion Kürzungen zugestimmt hätte. Frau Győri möge sich den Brief bitte selbst durchlesen. Ich habe ihn mir nämlich durchgelesen.
Janusz Lewandowski
President. MFF in one minute, quite a challenge. Commissioner knows that this is never business as usual, there is always something special. What is special now is apart from the centralized model in heading one, this is first ever wartime budget. And we have to repay huge debt with probably new own resources.
Soon we are to hear from the Council what is the state of play. Cuts are more than likely and this is a real headache for this house demanding more. More general remark. People of Europe don't understand and they are not interested in the inter-institutional battles. They want us to deliver.
Europe is output democracy.
Speaker 82
Уважаеми колеги, само ден преди този дебат два кораба бяха ударени в Черно море, единият потъна, а екипажът е в неизвестност. Това се случи в изключителната икономическа зона на България. И без да бързам със заключения за тази атака, едно нещо е много сигурно. Европа планира следващите седем години в среда, която се променя много по-бързо от нейните бюджети и от нейните програми. Затова днес дебатът е не колко голям да е бюджетът, а дали е достатъчен за това, което искаме ние.
Постоянно искаме Европа да е по-красива, да е по-сигурна, да е по-богата, да е по-конкурентна. Даваме ѝ задачи, а не осигуряваме парите за това. Няма как да стане.
Speaker 82
Като съавтор и вносител на националните регионални планове, които ще осигурят финансиране за нашите региони, аз трудно понасям разказа, че пет държави издържат Европа. Първо, защото когато Източна Европа печели проекти по нашите фондове, те си купуват влакове от същите тези пет държави. Купуват скенери за болниците от същите тези пет държави. Всички вкупом си държат парите в банки от същите тези пет държави и пазаруват в супермаркети от същите тези пет държави. Така че всички по веригата печелят, нека спрем с това, защото не е истина.
И накрая, колеги, историята няма да помни колко часа сме дебатирали, колко компромиси сме направили, а дали сме имали кураж да дадем сигурност тогава, когато са имали хората най-много нужда от нея. Благодаря ви.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much, now we come to the catch the eye and if all the colleagues stick to their minute we can take more. So I start first with Helder Sousa Silva.
Senhor Presidente, Senhor Comissário, Senhor Ministro, caros colegas, o próximo quadro financeiro plurianual deve ser ambicioso, equilibrado e robusto, como foi dito por muitos de vós, para financiar as prioridades tradicionais, coesão e política agrícola comum, mas também para novas prioridades europeias.
Hélder Sousa Silva
A Europa quer fazer mais na defesa, na competitividade, na energia, na inovação, mas também na proteção das nossas fronteiras. Mas há uma verdade que temos que assumir: novas prioridades exigem novos recursos, mesmo que sejam moderados. E por isso, aos chamados países frugais, devemos dizer com clareza: é tempo de realismo. Não podemos continuar a exigir mais da União Europeia, mas querer pagar menos por ela. E também não podemos continuar com o sistema em que alguns Estados-Membros beneficiam de rebates e correções.
Porque uma Europa mais forte tem claramente um preço, mas uma Europa fraca custará certamente muito mais. Muito obrigado.
Vielen Dank. Es reicht. Friedrich Merz hat diese Woche ganz deutlich gesagt, dass keine Einigung im EU-Haushalt für Deutschland die günstigste Variante wäre. Das ist vollkommen inakzeptabel. Es schwächt die Handlungsfähigkeit der Europäischen Union, vor allem schwächt das aber auch die eigene Bevölkerung.
Denn ab dem 1.1.2028 bedeutet das dann, dass die Landwirtinnen und Landwirte keine Gelder mehr bekommen, dass Projekte einfach auslaufen. Das ist wirklich verantwortungslos und auch inakzeptabel. Wir lassen uns als Europäisches Parlament diesbezüglich nicht erpressen.
Wir wollen konstruktive Verhandlungen und da entsprechend auch vorankommen. Horizontale Kürzungen voranzutreiben und zu sagen, der EU-Haushalt muss weniger Mittel beinhalten, ist ebenfalls völlig inakzeptabel. Wir können nicht mehr Aufgaben erfüllen mit weniger Mitteln. Und den Wegfall der Mittel fordere ich am Ende die Bundesregierung auf, wenn das ihre Position ist, diese Mittel im Bereich von Kohäsion, im Bereich von Agrar zu kompensieren. Es kann nicht sein, dass wir eine Umverteilung von den Schwächeren zu den Stärkeren haben.
Das werden wir, Kolleginnen und Kollegen hier im Europäischen Parlament, nicht zulassen. Und deswegen werden wir dem EU-Haushalt, so wie er vorgeschlagen wird, nicht zustimmen.
Alapvető problémánk van a hétéves költségvetési tervezettel kapcsolatban, ami az elmúlt évtizedek legnagyobb átcsoportosítását jelenti. Arról van szó, hogy úgy akarnak új programokat indítani, hogy arra nincs elegendő pénz. A tagállamok a járvány idején, majd a háború finanszírozásával kiköltekeztek, az uniós kassza pedig kiürülőben. Így hát hogyan teremtenék elő a hiányzó összeget? Hát úgy, hogy jelentősen megvágnák a kohéziós alapokat és az agrártámogatásokat.
Csaba Dömötör
De ravasz módon összevonják az eddigi alapokat, hogy ne tűnjön fel, hogy mekkora vágásról is van szó. Ráadásul az eddigi alapokkal szemben olyan programokat indítanak, ahol nem lehet garantálni, hogy minden tagállam egyenlő arányban részesül majd belőlük. Ha például felhizlalják a hadialapokat, az elsősorban azon országok gazdaságát pörgeti majd, amelyek jelentős hadiiparral rendelkeznek. Mindezek tetejébe új pénzbeszedési csatornákat is létre akarnak hozni, ezt nevezik itt új saját forrásoknak. Kevesebb közvetlen támogatás, több sarc.
Így hát ez a terv ebben a formában nem tűnik sem vonzónak, sem elfogadhatónak. Köszönöm.
Voorzitter, commissaris, geld groeit niet aan bomen. Wie meer wil uitgeven aan nieuwe prioriteiten, zal dus ook moeten durven schrappen in oude uitgaven. Maar in Brussel lijken we die werkelijkheid soms te vergeten. Bij iedere nieuwe wens komt er geld bij. De Commissie wil de nieuwe meerjarenbegroting met maar liefst 60% laten groeien en dit Parlement doet daar nog eens 10% bovenop.
Dat is niet houdbaar. Daarom zeggen zes regeringsleiders ook terecht dat de begroting met honderden miljoenen omlaag moet, want Europa heeft niet meer geld nodig, we moeten betere keuzes maken. Zorg dat we investeren in onze veiligheid en defensie. Zorg voor grip op migratie.
Versterk onze economie, ons concurrentievermogen en onze innovatiekracht. Want dit kan als we stoppen met de oude prioriteiten en de patronen die we altijd deden. Dus durf de keuzes te maken en durf te schrappen in de begroting, zodat we voorkomen dat de rekening bij de mensen thuis komt te liggen. Dank u wel.
Imagine this: you throw euro banknotes into a fire. What happens next? Exactly. The banknotes burn. That's what the EU budget does today.
Kai Tegethoff
Right now, we are waiting for climate disasters to happen and then we scramble to pay the bill. That's us right there, funding preventable fire. As we debate the next long-term EU budget, every euro we spend, whether on transport, infrastructure, energy, agriculture, must follow a strict resilience-by-design principle. When we know we're funding infrastructure that melts or floods or breaks with climate change unfolding, we're wasting taxpayers' money. We need to stop paying for predictable disasters.
It's time we build a resilient society and economy where everyone has a secure future.
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Alvise Pérez. One minute.
Alvise Pérez
Muchísimas gracias, presidenta. Voy a hablar en español. Señor comisario Serafin, le he escuchado con sumo respeto y he visto que usted fija el reembolso de los Next Generation en 24.000 millones de euros anuales, unos 168.000 millones en total, calculados, y cito textualmente, sobre tipos forward actuales. Pero su propia Comisión ha presupuestado 15.000 millones de euros de intereses para 2021-2027, o sea, ya vamos por 28.000. Estamos hablando de un desvío de más del 87%.
Por eso me limito a hacerle dos preguntas. La primera es qué tipo medio implícito asume usted, en fin, asume esa cifra y dónde está el análisis de sensibilidad de 100 puntos básicos. Y el segundo, si el Consejo no aprueba por unanimidad, que no lo parece, los nuevos recursos propios, que son unos 58.000 millones al año, ¿qué rúbrica va a recortar usted primero, se entiende, para pagar la deuda? Y por acabar, presidente, igualmente pienso que este presupuesto se lo va a comer la subida de tipos y la inflación, teniendo en cuenta, como ha dicho un compañero, la enorme crisis energética que estamos viviendo. Hace menos de 24 horas han atacado dos buques petroleros frente a Bulgaria, en las costas del Mar Negro, y esto tiene pinta de empeorar.
The next speaker is Nikolina Brnjac.
Thank you.
Hvala poštovana predsjedavajuća, povjereniče, kolegice i kolege. Sljedeći europski proračun nije samo pitanje koliko ćemo novca imati, nego prije svega u što ćemo ulagati. Europa danas mora istodobno jačati svoju konkurentnost, sigurnost i otpornost, ali pritom ne smijemo zaboraviti koheziju i poljoprivredu. I danas gotovo 30% građana Europske unije živi u regijama čiji je BDP po stanovniku ispod 75% europskog prosjeka. I zato ne smijemo stvarati izbor između novih europskih prioriteta i politika koje su desetljećima povezivale Europu.
Novi proračun mora ulagati u inovacije i strateške tehnologije, ali jednako tako u prometnu i energetsku infrastrukturu, prekograničnu povezanost te razvoj ruralnih, otočnih i slabije razvijenih područja. Europa će biti konkurentna samo ako raste zajedno. Hvala.
Gracias presidenta, Comisión, Consejo.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
A estas alturas del debate sobre el marco financiero plurianual hay dos cosas claras. La primera es que una mayoría de este Parlamento no está de acuerdo con la propuesta inicial, por tacaña y por sesgada, ni con las negociaciones. Y sin el Parlamento no habrá marco financiero plurianual. Pero la segunda es que hay hipocresía entre la correlación de fuerzas en este Parlamento, escorada a la derecha como nunca, en su protesta contra la posición del Consejo, también escorado a la derecha, que se niega a aceptar la cesta de recursos propios: servicios digitales, criptoactivos, comercio online, que permitiría financiar ese más que necesita Europa. Y no se puede hacer más con menos sin que se lleve por delante ni la política regional, ni la política de cohesión, ni la ayuda a las regiones más necesitadas o alejadas, entre las que se cuentan las regiones ultraperiféricas.
Por tanto, el Consejo tiene que tomar nota. Claramente tiene que moverse en la dirección del Parlamento Europeo y aceptar un paquete de recursos propios que importe las cantidades necesarias para financiar las ambiciones proclamadas. Gracias, presidenta.
Thank you, Madam President. The next seven-year EU budget is just around the corner. We are balancing major priorities: research, rural development, innovation, defence, education, young people. But underpinning all of these priorities is food security. Because without a secure and resilient food supply, we cannot have strong communities, a strong economy, or a strong Europe.
Nina Carberry
And that security starts with a properly funded Common Agricultural Policy. Colleagues, we are now negotiating against the clock.
This budget must be ready for January 2028. Delayed payments for farmers cannot be an option. If a transitional period is needed, continuity must be guaranteed. Farmers cannot be left waiting while EU institutions negotiate, nor can they be held up by administrative delays. Whether it is new money, old rules, or a new CAP framework, payments must continue without interruption, and the people putting food on our tables must have certainty from day one.
Thank you.
Giuseppe Lupo
Grazie, Presidente. Il prossimo quadro finanziario pluriennale deve essere all'altezza delle ambizioni dell'Europa. Per questo è necessario finanziare il nuovo bilancio pluriennale con l'1,27% del reddito nazionale lordo, oltre il rimborso del debito di Next Generation EU. È importante quanto investiamo sul futuro dell'Europa, ma è importante anche come spendiamo le risorse.
Per questo siamo contrari all'accorpamento dei fondi per la coesione, l'agricoltura e la pesca in un unico fondo, perché non dobbiamo indebolire le politiche di coesione, non dobbiamo indebolire il ruolo del Parlamento e delle regioni. Le isole, le aree interne, montane e periferiche hanno bisogno di politiche di coesione per garantire lavoro, alloggi, salute, scuola e servizi ai cittadini europei. Dobbiamo garantire risorse per l'agricoltura e la pesca, fondamentali per le nostre comunità, per l'ambiente e per la sicurezza alimentare. La nostra idea è semplice: un bilancio con più risorse per un'Europa più coesa, più competitiva, più sociale, più forte. Grazie.
Thank you. The next speaker is Stine Bosse.
Thank you very much, Commissioner. To quote you: "What we can do better and cheaper together, we must." Thank you so much for sticking to this quote. It's two years old and I think you remember the situation. Of course, defense and energy connectivity, they are the obvious things to do together, but also civil protection and areas of health, for example, rare diseases cease to be rare when we work together.
And to the Council representatives, please be bold. Please. And Commissioner, you can rely on us. You can rely on the pro-European majority in this chamber. But we have homework to do, all of us here today.
We have to go home and speak up and debate also in our home countries regarding exactly this issue. That is on our shoulders and on your shoulders is to get this through on an ambitious level. Thank you very much.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you, and the last speaker under catch-the-eye is Dariusz Joński.
Dariusz Joński
Bardzo dziękuję, pani przewodnicząca, panie komisarzu. Dzisiejsza debata o nowym budżecie pokazuje, że jedni chcą osłabionej Europy i chcą i proponują cięcia, drudzy chcą ambitnej, mocnej i silnej, jak proponuje i proponuje jednocześnie Komisja Europejska. To nie jest czas na cięcia, nie czas na oszczędności, czas na inwestycje, bo jak mamy mówić o bezpieczeństwie granic bez inwestycji w bezpieczeństwo? Jak mamy mówić o nowoczesnej kolei, połączenia do 2040 wszystkich europejskich stolic bez pieniędzy na kolej? Swoją drogą za dwa tygodnie w Polsce rozpoczynamy budowę kolei dużych prędkości.
Jak mamy mówić, że europejskie firmy mają brać udział w tym wyścigu technologicznym z Chinami, ze Stanami bez inwestycji w fundusz konkurencyjności? Jak mamy mówić o dobrej, dobrej żywności bez inwestycji w rolnictwo? Jak w końcu mamy mówić o taniej energii bez inwestycji między innymi właśnie w energię? Tylko ambitny budżet i trzymamy kciuki za Komisję Europejską, bo tylko w taki sposób możemy być w jakikolwiek sposób konkurencyjni z Chinami i ze Stanami Zjednoczonymi. Dziękuję.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much and I now pass the floor to Commissioner Piotr Serafin.
Piotr Serafin
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you for the debate. We are just a few days before the publication of the position of the Irish Presidency that is going to shape the negotiations on the MFF. It's quite obvious that for the Presidency what matters is to build a con- agreement among the 27 Member States. But I do believe that the fact we have this debate today is also useful for the Presidency because we should remember in every step which is taken, be it on the Council side, be it on the European Parliament side, we need to keep on mind that ultimately we will need to find an agreement between both institutions.
Without that agreement, there will not be MFF and that would be bad for Europe. I would like to make three points. The one will be on timing. We should be all aware what is at stake when it comes to the timing. We need an agreement this year to make sure that there are investments funded by the European budget in 2028.
Without agreement this year, there will not be investments funded by the European budget in 2028. Can we afford, can we afford that situation?
I believe not. That's why there is a need to work on the Council side on the overall MFF package, but also on the legislative package. And here I believe that both co-legislators have a work to do, both on the Council and in the European Parliament. I do hope that I know the timeline in the European Parliament. I hope it will be kept.
Piotr Serafin
And I also hope there will be an engagement in the process of negotiations between both institutions as early as possible. The second point I would like to make is on the size. I'm fully aware and I was actually also making reference to that during our deliberations in the Council that there is a lot of accounting tricks being used to demonstrate that the Commission has proposed a massive increase of the EU budget. This is simply not true. What we have proposed is an increase, but a moderate one.
We have proposed to increase the budget to 1.26% of GNI from the level agreed in 2020, 1.13% of GNI.
It is for sure not the increase by 60%. And that's what we hear, I have also heard in this chamber. So, and we did it at the time, this 1.26 is done at the time when we know there are new challenges that we were not confronted with in the past, like defense, like security, like doubling down on competitiveness. So also the point that the Commission has proposed the MFF only by adding new bills to old bills is not true. We were trying to modernize the budget and find the space to fund also the new priorities, including the repayment of NGEU.
And the last point will be on the way in which we fund the EU budget, because the debate on the MFF is not and cannot be only a debate on how to spend money. We also need to have a serious reflection how to fund the European budget. Here the options are, there are two options. There are either we fund the budget through the national contributions or we fund the budget through the new own resources.
The position of this chamber is clear. Now the ball is in the court of the of the Council, I should even dare to say European Council based on what we have heard from President Koštna that would be one of the issues to be addressed at the level of the European Council. What I would like to say at this point I would like to repeat declarations that we have made also in the Council during the Council deliberations. Of course the Commission stands by its own proposal. But we are open to new approaches, to new ideas that were presented by the European Parliament and we are also ready to look at ways and means to fine-tune and modulate the own resources package that has been put on the table.
What matters at the end of the day is whether we find efficient way to fund our common budget. And that should be the objective which I have full I have the feeling that the European Parliament fully supports. Thank you very much.
Sabine Verheyen
Thank you very much Commissioner.
Now I pass the floor to Minister Thomas Byrne on behalf of the Council.
Thomas Byrne
Thanks very much, Vice-President, and thanks to everybody for making your views known here today, and indeed to the co-rapporteurs particularly for your ongoing engagement with the Council. There's one word that I say to Member States and I say to the European Parliament as well, and that's compromise. I have to get 27 Member States to agree unanimously on every aspect of the overall package, and we have to get the European Parliament to consent. Nobody is going to get everything that they want. Nobody.
But if we are to deliver for our citizens, for our communities, for everybody who benefits from the European budget, we have to compromise. And that means compromising on the volume, it means compromising on people's priorities within the MFF, and it means compromising on the various own resources proposals that have been put forward. Though I should say that there is no doubt that own resources will form a very significant part of our nego-box and I would predict as well the ultimate conclusions of the MFF. But the word is compromise.
We're aiming to bring us further towards a compromise by the circulation of the nego-box on Saturday. I will engage with the European Parliament rapporteurs on Saturday if you wish, and we will continue to engage with the European Parliament as well on the sectoral files because a lot of compromise will be needed on those as well as we work towards them. But our leaders are very conscious and certainly the Irish presidency is very conscious of the European Parliament, of your role as of course representatives of the people of Europe. But the member states have to first negotiate that among themselves, and we certainly bring the message home that we need to get European Parliament consent on this. So the message is compromise.
We want to bring you further towards that on Saturday, and let's see then how the leaders get on with yourselves then at the very end. So thanks very much.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie, ministro. La discussione è chiusa. Ora, l'ordine del giorno reca la dichiarazione del Consiglio e della Commissione: responsabilizzare gli europei per affrontare la crisi del costo della vita. Diamo inizio alla discussione.
Prego, Ministro Byrne, per il suo intervento. Grazie.
Thomas Byrne
We go again. Thanks very much, Vice-President, Commissioner Jørgensen, honorable members. Across Europe, the issue of reducing the cost of living has evolved from a local market issue into a defining social, demographic, and economics challenge. The pressure on households due to cost of living, financial insecurity, as well as broader macroeconomic challenges have further increased the risk of poverty. We have set a common ambition to reduce the number of people at risk of poverty or social exclusion by 15 million people between 2019 and 2030.
But that ambition has been lacking pace, while the number of children at risk of poverty has slightly grown. The European Union anti-poverty strategy that the Commission put forward last spring sets a path towards achieving these targets. At the Council, ministers have recently discussed this critical subject twice. In March this year, ministers agreed that poverty is a multi-dimensional challenge. Often, employment is not enough to break the poverty cycle, and so it should be accompanied with services tailored to the individual's needs.
In June, ministers discussed pathways for effective implementation of the anti-poverty strategy. They concluded that well-functioning and accessible social systems are key to supporting people in need. Ensuring a life free from poverty requires a life-cycle approach with early intervention to break the cycle of intergenerational poverty at its root. The cost-of-living crisis is affecting disproportionately the most vulnerable. The number of people experiencing or at risk of experiencing homelessness, the most extreme face of poverty, has grown.
Against this backdrop, in a few days, the Council is expected to adopt Council conclusions, or sorry, a Council recommendation on fighting housing exclusion, including homelessness. This recommendation will provide member states with a stronger framework to prevent and to combat homelessness while promoting more coordinated and effective responses to housing exclusion. This takes me straight to one of the major aspects of the cost-of-living crisis, which is the housing issue, which I already had the opportunity to address yesterday when you were debating the Affordable Housing Act. Millions of our citizens, from young people trying to start their lives to families, essential workers, and the elderly, are struggling to find adequate, affordable homes near where they work and live.
Both the European Council and the Council of the European Union have recognized the need to shift the paradigm on housing across the continent and develop an ambitious and comprehensive plan for affordable housing. These calls demonstrate a clear trajectory: the EU has to move from recognizing housing as a growing crisis to embedding it within Europe's broader competitiveness and social agendas. By aligning European Union financing mechanisms, reforming state aid frameworks for affordable housing and streamlining urban planning rules, these political commitments provide the explicit backing needed to implement long-term solutions for European workers and communities. It's not possible to advocate for a robust European economy when young families, critical workers and students are unable to access the very cities that drive economic growth and give employment. Vice-President, honorable members, Commissioner, in light of the ongoing situation, it's vital that we re-establish our dedication to providing real, tangible answers to our citizens at a time when the cost of living has become unbearable for too many of them.
And we should also recognize the key role of regional and local governments in finding suitable and concrete solutions, implementing what is done and complementing what is done at national and European level.
Thomas Byrne
The 2026 European Semester aims to address these challenges through coordinated reforms and investments, aligned with the competitiveness compass and the European Pillar of Social Rights. Go raibh maith agat.
Grazie Ministro, passiamo ora alla Commissione, prego Commissario Jørgensen.
Dan Jørgensen
Too many Europeans are struggling with the cost of living. They're struggling to pay their bills every month. This is despite the fact that we are living in one of the richest regions in the world. Two of the most important reasons for this is the price of housing and the price of energy. If we look at housing first, prices of houses in Europe has gone up by approximately 60% in average in the last decade in Europe.
This means that for many people it is impossible to buy a house, it's impossible to even find a house where or an apartment where it's feasible that they can pay the rent.
Dan Jørgensen
So we see young people staying with their parents often until they're 30. Now, if this is a choice and this is something you want, this is fine of course, but if it is something that you need to do because you cannot afford to find somewhere for yourself, it is not only obviously a problem for the individual, not being able to start a family, not being able to get the education that you want because you have to move to get it, not being able to take the job that you're offered, but it's also a problem for us as societies. Now, housing is much more than just walls and a roof. It is security in your life, it's having a base for your everyday living, for your family. It's what provides the possibility to live a life without worry.
Somebody told me as a joke that okay, if you have a house you may have 99 problems. If you don't have a house, you only have one.
I don't have a house. But even if you do have a house, even if you are able to pay the bills, your worries might not be over. Because energy prices are extremely high. And for most people in Europe, the second highest bill that they pay every month, after the bill that they pay to pay their mortgage or the rent, that is for the energy. Now, things have been going in the right direction.
We would have paid much more for our energy had we not had the European Union. If we were not as connected as we are in our energy sector, we would pay more than 30 billion more per year euros for our energy. Had we not deployed as much renewables as we have the last years, 89 gigawatts last year, that's enough to supply renewable energy for at least 89 million homes extra. Had we not done that, we would have paid even more. That's good.
But it still does not hide the fact that at the bottom line, at the end of the month, for too many people, it's still too difficult to pay the bills. So, what to do? Well, these two challenges need to be at the core of our policies. We need to take it serious. We need to act, and we need to act swiftly.
The problem with both of these problems are that many of the solutions that we need are long-term and structural. So how do we solve a problem that's here now, tomorrow, if what is really needed is long-term and structural solutions? It's not easy. But we need to do it. So, a combination of short-term measures, targeted and temporary, that does not undermine our long-term aims is necessary.
For the energy sector, we know that some member states have chosen, and I can, I can see why, to subsidize fossil fuels, because otherwise the citizens wouldn't be able to pay to fill up the car and go to work. Subsidize heating, because otherwise they would freeze. I understand that. But we need to make it temporary and targeted to those who really need it. Because long-term, subsidizing something that we want to get rid of, something that is more expensive, is not a smart strategy.
We've paid more than a hundred billion more for our fossil energy since February than we normally do, without receiving one extra molecule.
So obviously the strategy needs to be to get away from this dependency, to use more energy efficiency measures, to use more renewable energy. And every time we do deploy these things, which is happening in many member states, more electric heat pumps instead of gas and oil boilers, more electric vehicles instead of combustion engine cars. This is good in our fight against climate change, but it's also good for the economy of our citizens. With housing, we need to all realize that this is going to be a long structural change. We need to build far more.
We need to renovate far more. We need to use buildings that are used for something different today as houses for people in the future. We need probably to change some structural things in the way that we regulate the housing market. Lots of these solutions will be national of course, but more and more countries are looking in this direction. But it doesn't mean that we cannot do things on the short term.
So for instance, we have in the Commission changed the state aid rules so that it's easier to build affordable homes. That can start tomorrow.
We've put forward a proposal on affordable housing which deals with the problem of short-term rentals. Short-term rentals, although it can be a good idea for some, actually the ability to be able to rent out a room in your house or your whole house a couple of weeks a year, that can be the income that makes it possible for you to stay in that home. So that can be a good thing. But in far too many cases, we see that whole buildings are being bought with the sole purpose of only having short-term rentals, or people are being forced to leave their apartments or houses because there's a better business to be made by just having short-term rentals. So we've created a system where actually we have shadow hotels where people could be living.
This is why we now give the legal framework to Member States and cities and regions to do something about this, to regulate this better. Same goes for second homes. Now, we're not forcing any Member States to do this. This is not an attack on private property rights by no means.
But it is an attempt to look at what works in some countries that is not being deployed in other countries and give these tools. So this can work on a short term. All in all, we need to realize that if people do not feel that politicians, decision-makers take it serious that they're struggling every day, they will turn to somebody that they think will take their problems serious. So this can, at the end of the day, be a threat to democracy, be a threat to the institutions that we believe in. And I could also maybe even be a little bit provocative.
I can even understand people that lose faith in us if we don't manage to tackle the problems that are most important for them. This is also why, and this will be my final point, some say that housing, that's not a European topic. That's just something for the member states. I can understand it because as many of you know, I used to be a member of this house for almost 10 years and I don't remember us ever discussing from 2004 to 2013, ever discussing housing.
It wasn't really on the agenda. So last European Parliament election in many member states, it was the number one topic. You could say that's probably, maybe that's a little bit weird that citizens and media thinks that it should be so high on the agenda when it's not something that we deal with normally in the European Union. I don't see it like that. I see it as a very healthy sign in a democracy that when our citizens experience problems, they expect the decision makers to act.
And my opinion is they don't really care on which level. They don't differentiate between local politicians, national and European. They just expect that the people they vote for help them solve their problems. And we need to do that. Obviously respecting the subsidiarity principle, obviously respecting that there are things that are better done locally than on a European level.
But we cannot just lean back and say that's up to the member states. We need to act. Thank you.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie, Commissario. Iniziamo il dibattito. Annuncio di la chiusura della procedura catch-the-eye perché abbiamo oltre 20 iscritti e vi chiedo quindi di stare molto precisi nei tempi per dare a tutti la possibilità di intervenire.
Iniziamo, prego onorevole Ferber. Prego.
Markus Ferber
Vielen Dank, Frau Vizepräsidentin, Ratspräsident, Herr Kommissar, liebe Kolleginnen, liebe Kollegen. Die Krise der Lebenshaltungskosten hat eigentlich eine einfache Ursache. Europa produziert zu wenig von dem, was die Bürgerinnen und Bürger wirklich benötigen. Zu wenig Energie, zu wenig Wohnungen und sorry, zu wenig Wettbewerb im Binnenmarkt. Subventionen und Preisregulierungen lindern die Symptome vielleicht für eine kurze Zeit, aber es kann keine dauerhafte Lösung sein, weil genau dieses Geld fehlt dann für die notwendigen Investitionen.
Wir sollten nicht bei den Symptomen uns aufhalten, sondern wir sollten die Ursachen der Probleme wirklich angehen. Und das bedeutet in einer sozialen Marktwirtschaft: nur ein größeres Angebot senkt die Preise. Ich weiß, es ist schwer zu verstehen, aber ich wiederhole es: nur ein größeres Angebot senkt dauerhaft die Preise. Beginnen wir mit der Energie. Unsere Unternehmen zahlen für Strom zwei- bis dreimal so viel, die Haushalte genauso, wie unsere Wettbewerber.
Und das liegt auch daran, dass wir in der Energiepolitik nach wie vor 27 regionale Märkte haben, keinen europäischen Binnenmarkt. Herr Kommissar, Sie sind auch für Energie zuständig. Sie haben die Instrumente, um den Binnenmarkt durchzusetzen.
Markus Ferber
Nutzen Sie diese Instrumente wirklich. Wir haben gestern über die Wohnraumknappheit diskutiert. Auch hier geht es nicht darum, Mangel zu verwalten, sondern regulatorische Lasten abzubauen. Beschleunigen wir Genehmigungsverfahren. Eine Stromtrasse, ein Windpark, ein Wohngebiet braucht zehn Jahre bis zu seiner Genehmigung.
Das sind die Kosten, die uns wirklich behindern im Wettbewerb. Und der Binnenmarkt funktioniert hint und vorn nicht. Auch darüber haben wir schon öfters diskutiert. Bringen Sie das zur Anwendung, dann sind wir in der Lage, dauerhaft den Bürgerinnen und Bürgern zu helfen. Vielen Dank.
Gabriele Bischoff
The German Angst ist ein gängiger Begriff auch in allen anderen europäischen Ländern. Wir haben in Deutschland eine neue Studie, die noch mal zeigt, dass, ob es beim Einkauf ist, bei der Miete, an der Tankstelle, wenn es ums Heizen geht, jeder sechs in zehn haben Angst, dass die Lebenshaltungskosten weiter steigen und dass die Menschen nicht mehr mithalten können. Und mit Blick auf das Wohnen: Jede zweite Person hat Angst, dass Mieten unbezahlbar werden.
Und das, wenn wir an die Tankstelle gehen, auch Subventionen nicht helfen, sondern dass wir sehen, dass die Preise immer weiter steigen. Und das bedeutet gleichzeitig, und die Studie verweist darauf, dass das Vertrauen der Menschen in die Politik sinkt. Und dann Jörgensen hat es gesagt, denen ist es egal, auf welcher Ebene was machen, aber sie wollen, dass wir endlich Maßnahmen ergreifen, die wirklich auch lösen. Der Affordable Housing Act ist da. Zu Kurzzeitvermietung nach der Debatte gestern würde ich noch mal sagen, es gibt kein Silver Bullet.
Wir müssen alle Anstrengungen unternehmen, auch hier zu regulieren, keine ideologischen Debatten, sondern Lösungen bereitstellen. Und dasselbe gilt auch für die Tankstellen und das Energieproblem. Wir brauchen eine Übergewinnsteuer jetzt. Also alle denken, dass der Markt das irgendwie von selbst regelt, ob beim Wohnen oder an der Tankstelle, das ist nicht der Fall. Die Unternehmen gerade hier im Bereich von Benzin und Energie verdienen sich eine goldene Nase.
Wir müssen das stoppen. Es gibt jetzt auch eine entsprechende Unterschriftenaktion. Beteiligen Sie sich. Die Kommission muss hier handeln.
Jean-Paul Garraud
La situation économique de nos compatriotes est intenable.
Face à l'explosion du coût de la vie, les Français, champions du monde des prélèvements obligatoires, étouffent sous le poids des taxes, notamment celles qui frappent les carburants et l'énergie. Et pourtant, comme si cela ne suffisait pas, l'Union européenne prépare pour 2028 l'entrée en vigueur de l'ETS 2, un nouveau marché carbone qui s'appliquera notamment au transport routier. Une nouvelle mécanique fiscale qui fera grimper le prix des carburants jusqu'à 15 centimes supplémentaires par litre d'essence. Cette fuite en avant doit cesser. Les solutions existent, comme celle de permettre aux États d'appliquer un taux réduit de TVA sur les carburants et les autres sources d'énergie.
En France, nous pourrions ainsi ramener la TVA de 20 % à 5,5 %. Il faut aussi cesser d'alourdir sans cesse la fiscalité au nom d'une écologie punitive et revoir en profondeur les règles du marché européen de l'électricité. Certes, personne ici ne fixe le cours mondial du pétrole. Mais nous pouvons décider de ne pas ajouter toujours plus de taxes aux taxes et de ne pas faire payer à nos compatriotes des choix politiques qui amputent chaque mois un peu plus leur pouvoir d'achat. Se déplacer pour travailler, chauffer son logement ou remplir son réservoir ne sont pas des luxes, ce sont des nécessités quotidiennes qu'il ne faut surtout pas oublier.
Charlie Weimers
President, do you know the story about the Midas touch? The Greek god Dionysus granted King Midas his wish: everything the king touched turned to gold. His food, his drink, even his daughter turned to gold. Today we have the Brussels touch: the power to make anything complicated, costly and scarce. Energy, fuel, food and housing have all become entangled in a Gordian knot of red tape, costly mandates and green regulation.
And the left's solution? Brussels should touch more. Madness. So what happened to King Midas? Aristotle said he died of starvation.
But a more hopeful version tells us that Dionysus heard the king's prayer for help and told him to wash away his curse in the river Pactolus. Might we wash away the regulations that have made Europe poorer, slower and less competitive? Hear my prayer: rid us of the Brussels touch.
Billy Kelleher
We had a similar debate yesterday on the Affordable Housing Act, Commissioner, and the cost of living is a real issue.
It affects us both from a social perspective but also our competitiveness as a Union. Young people can't afford rents. They never see hope in terms of being able to purchase a home. On a daily basis, we now see quite evidently across Europe escalating food costs, energy crisis, and fuel crisis now as well in terms of cost at petrol stations and diesel stations. And these are having a profound impact, Commissioner, and you spoke very passionately previously this morning on what we must do.
But we're all in this together. This is not just a member state competence or a European-wide competence because this is fundamentally undermining and fraying away the cohesion of member states and the European Union. And they will turn to others for solutions if we don't provide meaningful opportunities. I still believe, Commissioner, we have to look at short-term and long-term in terms of policy developments. Yes, energy costs are a fundamental issue at the moment and obviously member states are bringing forward targeted and temporary measures.
But longer term, the grids package is crucially important.
Billy Kelleher
But also the European Union has to look at the areas where it is still an impediment to member states' planning and permitting. And whether we like it or not, there are some regulations that are there for good reason in terms of protecting the environment, the habitats directives and many other directives, but they are causing challenges in terms of member states being able to grant planning permissions and permitting for infrastructure and housing projects in the time ahead. So that is an area that we do have to revisit urgently.
Diana Riba i Giner
Gracias, presidenta, comisario. La gente no vive de cifras macroeconómicas, vive de lo que le queda después de pagar el alquiler, la luz y la compra. La energía ha subido un 19 % en el último año, los alimentos un 40 % en los últimos cinco años y la vivienda un 60 % en los últimos diez años. Mientras tanto, los salarios crecen a un ritmo ridículo, haciendo que la mayoría de la población sea más pobre cada año. ¿Y qué propone la Comisión ante esto?
Multiplicar por cinco los fondos en defensa, como si la gente comiera balas o viviera en los tanques. Ya está bien. Hay que parar a esta derecha que con una mano culpa a los males a los migrantes, al colectivo LGTBI y a las mujeres y con la otra saquea las familias de las familias trabajadoras para llenar las de unos pocos, los de siempre.
La ala progresista de esta cámara tiene que pasar a la acción. Hay que poner ambición para garantizar vivienda pública, energía asequible, salarios mínimos y un estado del bienestar robusto. Muchas gracias.
Manon Aubry
Grazie onorevole, prego onorevole Aubry.
Merci Madame la Présidente, cher Commissaire. Aujourd'hui le prix de l'essence avoisine encore les 2,5 euros du litre. C'est du jamais vu. Partout il faut se vider les poches pour faire le plein. Combien faudra-t-il payer demain pour avoir le droit d'aller travailler, d'amener ses enfants à l'école ou même de partir en vacances ?
Allez-vous faire quelque chose avant que l'on atteigne 3 euros du litre ? Et il n'y a pas que l'essence. Les courses, le loyer et les factures, les dépenses augmentent et les salaires ne suivent pas. Le peuple survit plus qu'il ne vit. Et il y a déjà une personne sur cinq qui est en risque de pauvreté.
Alors qu'on ne s'étonne pas si la colère monte. La convergence des luttes prend forme. Les lycéens se mobilisent pour réclamer des conditions d'étude dignes. J'étais à leurs côtés hier et ce matin encore ici à Strasbourg.
Ils demandent simplement plus de moyens parce que la France est le pays de l'Union européenne avec les classes les plus chargées. Hier, ils criaient de l'argent pour les lycées, pas pour l'armée. Et quelle réponse leur est apportée ? La répression, les éborgnements, les mains arrachées, la méthode déjà éprouvée sur les gilets jaunes. Pendant que la jeunesse vise le bac, la BAC, elle, vise la jeunesse.
Mais on ne peut pas faire taire un peuple. Il voit bien que derrière la note qu'ils doivent payer, il y a un choix politique, celui de protéger les milliardaires à tout prix. Les raffineurs ont multiplié leurs superprofits par 7,5 depuis le début de la guerre. Mais hier, le centre, les macronistes, la droite et l'extrême droite ensemble se sont alliés pour refuser de prélever une partie de ces superprofits pour aider le peuple. Six États membres l'ont demandé à la Commission européenne et je regrette que mon pays, la France, ne l'ait pas fait.
Cela avait pourtant rapporté 26 milliards d'euros lorsque la Commission européenne l'avait mise en place en 2022. De quoi investir massivement dans l'éducation publique en France et partout en Europe. Vous refusez également d'indexer les salaires sur l'inflation alors même que cela existe dans certains pays européens comme en Belgique, ou même de bloquer les prix. Rien qui ne pourrait contrarier les milliardaires en somme.
Vous préférez les cajoler, nous, on les fera enfin payer.
Madame la Présidente, chers collègues. Les prix explosent et vous cherchez les coupables partout, sauf dans cette salle. Ce n'est pas vous qui avez fermé le détroit d'Ormuz, mais c'est vous qui avez ajouté vos quotas carbone au prix du pétrole. Ce n'est pas vous qui avez asséché les champs cet été, mais c'est vous qui avez enseveli nos agriculteurs sous des milliers de pages de normes et ouvert nos marchés à ceux qui n'en respectent aucune. Et chacune de vos lois a un prix.
Votre directive sur les bâtiments, des logements plus chers. Vos quotas sur les carburants, le plein plus cher. Votre marché de l'électricité, le courant français payé au prix du gaz allemand. Vos obligations de reporting, des milliers d'heures perdues dans les entreprises et répercutées sur les prix. Ce prix, ce n'est jamais vous qui le payez.
Ce sont les Européens. Vous voulez améliorer leur pouvoir d'achat ? Prenez des vacances. Merci à vous.
Milí kolegové, v Evropě roste extremismus a radikalismus a my se ptáme proč. Proč? Protože příliš mnoho lidí má pocit, že my politici neumíme zlepšit jejich životy.
Danuše Nerudová
Mladá rodina v Česku dnes jen těžko dosáhne na vlastní bydlení. U benzínové pumpy počítá, jestli si může dovolit víkendový výlet s dětmi za babičkou a za dědečkem. Paní Jana, důchodkyně ze Slaného, zase sleduje, jak jí zdražuje každý další nákup. A pak si otevřou noviny a čtou o miliardových ziscích rafinérií, energetických firem nebo velkých agroholdingů. Nedivím se, že důvěra v politiku klesá a preference extremistů a populistů rostou.
Evropa ale má nástroje, jak tady toto změnit. Můžeme zdanit mimořádné zisky, udělat z nich příjem evropského rozpočtu a peníze vrátit lidem, třeba investicemi do dostupného bydlení, do zlepšení života lidí. Protože lidé nebudou Evropu posuzovat podle počtu směrnic. Budou ji posuzovat podle toho, jestli se jim v ní žije lépe. A to přesně musí být náš úkol.
Děkuji.
Merci Madame la Présidente, chers collègues, Monsieur le Commissaire.
Estelle Ceulemans
Se lever tôt chaque jour pour aller travailler et pourtant être incapable à la fin du mois de faire face à l'explosion du coût de la vie. Ne pas avoir accès à un logement décent, ne pas pouvoir payer ses factures d'énergie ou nourrir correctement sa famille, c'est la situation de millions de travailleurs et surtout de travailleuses à travers l'Europe. Les salaires stagnent et les factures explosent. Est-ce que vous trouvez ça normal ou acceptable ? Et ici, je m'adresse particulièrement à une droite et à une extrême droite de plus en plus décomplexée et qui prétend défendre ceux qui se lèvent tôt mais qui en réalité ne font rien pour eux.
Il est donc urgent d'adopter un cadre européen pour renforcer la qualité des emplois avec de bons salaires, une négociation collective forte ou une garantie d'accès à la formation. Il nous faut répondre à ces besoins cruciaux maintenant. Sinon, pas de surprise si les Européens et les Européennes ne croient plus en nous, les politiques, ou même en la démocratie.
30 millió európainak okoz nehézséget, hogy befizesse a számláit. Ezt az energiaügyi biztos jelentette ki még márciusban. És valóban, az Eurostat számai szerint a fogyasztói energiaárak 19 százalékkal nőttek egyetlen év alatt. Még brutálisabbak a számok, hogyha a gázszámlákat nézzük.
Csaba Dömötör
A családok 75 százalékkal fizetnek többet, mint öt évvel ezelőtt. Mindezért a von der Leyen-féle bizottság egész biztosan felelős. Először is a kötelező zöld szabályokkal megnövelték az energiatermelés költségeit. És ezt súlyosbítják azzal, hogy levágják Európát a keleti energiaimportról úgy, hogy minden alternatív beszerzési mód drágább. Közben a tagállamok különböző eszközökkel próbálják védeni a családokat, például fixálják az árakat.
Ezeket a megoldásokat a bizottság folyamatosan támadja, ezért egyes kormányok végül visszavonják ezeket az intézkedéseket. Így tesz a magyar kormány is. Kérem, ne tegyék ezt. Ha már nem segítenek, legalább azt ne akadályozzák, hogy a családok védelmet kapjanak, s leginkább hozzák vissza a józan észt az energiapolitikába. Köszönöm.
Grazie, onorevole. Prego, onorevole Squarta.
Presidente, colleghi. Il costo della vita è diventato il costo di sopravvivenza. Viviamo in un momento straordinario: guerre, crisi energetica, instabilità economica, e il prezzo lo pagano famiglie e imprese. L'Europa deve capirlo: non possiamo affrontare una situazione eccezionale con le solite regole.
Marco Squarta
Basta vincoli e restrizioni. Servono flessibilità e risorse vere, come ha chiesto Giorgia Meloni. Perché con le parole non si pagano le bollette, con le parole non si fa la benzina, con le parole non si arriva a fine mese. Se l'Europa non comprende come questo momento storico sia drammatico, è inevitabile che cresca la sfiducia dei cittadini. O l'Europa cambia passo adesso e aiuta davvero la sua gente, oppure rischiamo di mettere in ginocchio milioni di famiglie e di imprese.
E allora sarà troppo tardi.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, c'è un cartellino blu. Prego onorevole Van Brug. Prego.
Voorzitter, commissaris. Bij de kassa toch maar een item terugleggen. De verwarming lager zetten, ondanks de kou, of niet naar familie gaan om die volgende tankbeurt toch nog even uit te stellen. Voor steeds meer Europeanen is dit geen doemscenario, maar de dagelijkse realiteit. Het leven wordt knap onbetaalbaar.
En juist dan moeten we ons hier afvragen: maken we het leven nog wel goedkoper of maken we het hier juist duurder? Want terwijl mensen thuis iedere euro omdraaien, stapelen wij in Brussel de regels op.
Anouk Van Brug
Bedrijven betalen niet alleen hoge energierekeningen, maar ook steeds hogere compliancekosten. En ondertussen lopen de rentelasten op omdat de begrotingsregels hier niet worden gehandhaafd. Dus ik wil voorstellen: we doen minder regels, de begrotingsregels gaan we handhaven en we gaan kritisch kijken naar onze eigen EU-uitgaven. Want als de mensen thuis scherpe keuzes moeten maken, mogen ze dat ook van ons verwachten. Dank u.
This is a blue card for you if you accept. Please, Mr Botenga, for 30 seconds.
Dank u wel om de kaart te aanvaarden, om de vraag te aanvaarden. Mensen betalen vandaag makkelijk tweeënhalve euro per liter aan de pomp. Maar die crisis is er niet voor iedereen, hè. Acht grote multinationals uit de oliesector, de gassector, ja, die maken massas winsten: 83 miljard euro in drie maanden. Is natuurlijk enorm.
En daarom hebben wij gisteren voorgesteld om die eventjes te gaan belasten en dat geld dan voor de mensen te gaan gebruiken. En u stemt daartegen. Ik bedoel, hoe legt u dat uit? U zegt dat we de mensen moeten helpen, maar tezelfdertijd hebt u liever dat de mensen betalen in plaats van die grote multinationals en hun overwinsten. Dank u wel.
Ja, dank voor deze vraag. Ik vind dit eigenlijk wel echt problematisch dat we hier blijven doen alsof we grote bedrijven maar extra belasten, dat het dan per definitie terugkomt bij mensen thuis. Dit is een schijntegenstelling. Ik vind het ook echt jammer dat u dit blijft doen. Uiteindelijk is het namelijk niet de oplossing om even ergens een belasting te heffen en dat vervolgens tijdelijk over te hevelen.
Marc Botenga
We moeten het probleem structureel aanpakken en zorgen dat dit überhaupt niet kan gebeuren. Dank u wel.
Nee, dat het structureel moet aangepast worden, daar zijn we het over eens, maar dat doet u natuurlijk ook niet. Maar mijn punt is wel dat we in 2022 zo'n maatregel namen en dat die in totaal, ik geloof een 26 à 28 miljard euro opbracht, die we dan inderdaad wel voor de mensen kunnen gebruiken. Nu dat is natuurlijk dan een verantwoordelijkheid van de regeringen. Maar u weigert dat geld te gaan halen. Dus die overwinsten zijn er, die gaan naar de aandeelhouders enzovoort.
De mensen hebben het moeilijk en u zegt: nee, ik probeer het zelfs niet.
Dat is toch niet uit te leggen?
Wat ik niet uit te leggen vind, is dat u niet deelneemt aan onderhandelingen, dit op ter elfder ure nog een keer op tafel gooit en vervolgens uw gezicht niet laat zien.
Kiitos puheenjohtaja, komissaari. Yksinhuoltaja joutuu valitsemaan lapsen iltaruoan ja omien lääkkeidensä välillä. Tämä ei ole vahinko, tämä on poliittisten valintojen seurausta. Tänä talvena miljoonat eurooppalaiset perheet valitsevat lämmityksen ja ruoan välillä. Tämä ei ole sattumaa, tämä on poliittinen epäonnistuminen.
Maria Ohisalo
Suomessa me näemme juuri nyt mihin tämä johtaa. Hinnat nousevat, hallitus leikkaa sosiaaliturvasta, asumisesta, koulutuksesta ja samaa tekevät kaikki oikeistohallitukset ympäri Eurooppaa. Nämä hallitukset tarjoavat ihmisille nälkää, suuryritysten johtajille veronkevennyksiä ja fossiiliyhtiöille lisää voittoja. Ja tämä ei voi jatkua näin. Verotetaan siis äärimmäistä vaurautta, luovutaan fossiilitalouden tuista, investoidaan kohtuuhintaiseen uusiutuvaan energiaan, taataan kaikille kunnollinen vähimmäistulo ja koti, johon on varaa.
Antonella Sberna
C'è una blue card, ma è dello stesso gruppo, quindi non possiamo accettarla. Procediamo. Prego, onorevole Pedullà.
Gaetano Pedulla'
Vicepresidente, colleghe e colleghi, dalla Francia alla Spagna all'Italia migliaia di persone protestano perché sono sempre più povere, precarie e senza futuro. La disperazione di chi non ha un lavoro o una casa grida, ma i governi nazionali rispettano più l'austerity che i loro cittadini. Eppure l'Europa fa pochissimo. Ho ascoltato con attenzione, Commissario Jørgensen, quello che ci ha detto, ma le misure come la strategia antipovertà promessa dalla Commissione o il fondo per il clima sono una goccia nel mare. Servono molti più soldi per le case pubbliche, energia a prezzi equi, salari dignitosi e una ridistribuzione della ricchezza.
Serve, insomma, un totale cambio delle politiche di von der Leyen e di chi la tiene al potere. Lo dico soprattutto ai socialisti, alle forze progressiste che sostengono la Commissione: quando la smetterete di essere complici di questa strategia contro la povera gente? Denunciare la povertà è solo ipocrisia se poi si sostiene chi la alimenta insieme alla guerra.
Deponiamo gli attuali governanti europei prima che la furia popolare e le destre depongano l'Europa.
Zsuzsanna Borvendég
Kissé humoros, hogy megoldási javaslatokat kínálnak azokra a problémákra, amelyeket a kudarcos politikájukkal okoztak. Nevetni még sincs kedvünk. Értelmetlen identitáspolitikai harcokkal palástolják, hogy a migrációs áradat bedöntötte a szociális ellátórendszereket, és a szankciós csomagjaikkal soha nem látott energiaválságot generáltak. Mégis számolatlanul öntik a pénzt Ukrajnába, és ész nélkül fegyverkeznek, ezzel háború felé sodorva Európát. Javaslataikkal csak olajat öntenek a tűzre: új adók kivetése, megszorító csomagok, az agrártámogatások és a regionális fejlesztések megkurtítása, és mindezt azért, hogy még több pénzt küldhessenek Ukrajnába.
Ebből nem kérünk. Ha segíteni akarnak az embereken, alapjaiban kell megváltoztatni a politikájukat: migráció helyett családtámogatásra, segélyek helyett munkahelyekre, zöld átállás helyett racionális energia- és iparpolitikára, háború helyett pedig békére van szükség.
Kiitos puheenjohtaja. Euroopan unioni on tukenut enemmän Venäjän fossiilitaloutta kuin Ukrainaa. Suora kysymykseni äärioikeistolle: maksaako Putin teille tästä työstä? Te haluatte jatkaa fossiilienergiariippuvuutta Venäjän kanssa. Mitä Putin maksaa teille?
Marc Botenga
Excuse me, but I think there is no translation. Okay, so, sorry, please.
Európa csak akkor lehet erős, ha együttműködik az orosz gazdasággal, és igen, az orosz energiára szüksége van Európának, és az ukrajnai és az orosz háború nem a mi háborúnk. Elsődlegesen békekötésre van szükség, és ez nem azt jelenti, hogy nem ismerem el az orosz agressziót. A béke pártján vagyok, és azt gondolom, Európának egyetlenegy lehetősége van, hogy minél előbb tárgyalóasztalhoz kényszeríti a feleket, és kiegyezik Oroszországgal.
Lefteris Nikolaou-Alavanos
Πέντε εκατομμύρια άνθρωποι φέτος θα επιλέξουν να ζεσταθούν ή να έχουν φαγητό στο τραπέζι. Αυτή είναι η Ευρώπη που Νέα Δημοκρατία, ΠΑΣΟΚ, ΣΥΡΙΖΑ και λοιπά κόμματα μας καλούν να γίνουμε. Η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση που σε όλα τα κράτη μέλη γίνονται μεγάλες κινητοποιήσεις για το υψηλό κόστος ζωής, το κόστος στέγασης, ενέργειας, ενάντια στους πλειστηριασμούς, στις περικοπές στην παιδεία. Η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση παίζει τα ρέστα της για τον πόλεμο. Απαιτεί πρωτογενή ματωμένα πλεονάσματα, επιβάλλει δημοσιονομικά ταβάνια για τις λαϊκές ανάγκες με άγρια φορολογία, μείωση κατανάλωσης για το λαό, αλλά για τους πολεμικούς και ενεργειακούς ομίλους εγκρίνει ρήτρες διαφυγής.
Αυτό το δρόμο ακολουθούν και τα κοστολογημένα προγράμματα των αστικών κομμάτων. Γι' αυτό λέμε ότι για να κερδίσει ο λαός πρέπει να χάσει το μεγάλο κεφάλαιο. Οι εργαζόμενοι πρέπει να παλέψουν για κατάργηση ειδικών φόρων κατανάλωσης και ΦΠΑ σε καύσιμα και ρεύμα, στα είδη λαϊκής κατανάλωσης, για πλαφόν στις τιμές και στα κέρδη των ομίλων, για συλλογικές συμβάσεις εργασίας με ουσιαστικές αυξήσεις στους μισθούς.
Κόντρα στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση, το κεφάλαιο και τις κυβερνήσεις τους, να προβάλουν τη δική τους διέξοδο με την οικονομία και την εξουσία στα δικά τους χέρια.
Gracias presidenta. En las últimas elecciones europeas el coste de la vida fue la principal preocupación de los ciudadanos, la subida de los precios y la situación económica. Y eso debería decirnos algo muy sencillo: el crecimiento económico solo sirve si los ciudadanos lo notan en su bolsillo. España es un buen ejemplo. Comprar una vivienda, su precio ha subido otro 12,2% en apenas un año.
Alquilar, pagar una renta es un 50% más caro que hace ocho años. La cesta de la compra desde 2018 cuesta más de un 42%. Y a todo esto, los salarios reales siguen todavía un 2% por debajo de 2021. Y sin embargo, el gobierno de Sánchez presume de crecimiento. Ese es el problema: gobernar mirando el Excel del PIB mientras los ciudadanos miran el saldo de su cuenta corriente.
Porque crecer no es prosperar si la vivienda se dispara, los salarios pierden poder adquisitivo y llegar a fin de mes cuesta cada día más.
Y quizá la mejor prueba de que el triunfalismo del gobierno no se sostiene es que después de ocho años hasta los sindicatos han descubierto que hay motivos para salir a la calle. Ah no, que es el propio gobierno el que ha convocado una huelga general en España, qué casualidad que haya sido justo antes de las elecciones. Señorías, hagamos que trabajar vuelva a merecer la pena en España y en Europa. Muchas gracias.
Antonella Sberna
There is a blue card for you if Ms. Abadía Hover, there is a blue card, okay, no. So please, Mr. Nica.
Dan Nica
Mulțumesc, domnule președinte, domnule comisar Jørgensen, situația prețurilor la energia electrică a devenit o preocupare majoră pentru cei mai mulți dintre cetățenii Europei. În țara mea, România, prețurile în ultimii patru ani au crescut de aproape trei ori. Și acest lucru pentru că lipsesc măsurile concrete. Faimosul interconector dintre Austria și Ungaria nu vrea nimeni să-i mărească capacitatea, ceea ce a făcut ca toată Europa de Sud-Est să fie prizonieră, să fie prizonieră și suntem prizonierii unor prețuri extraordinar de mari. În același timp, ceea ce înseamnă partea de manipulare, de înșelătorie, de măsuri care ar fi trebuit luate în conformitate cu directiva REMIT, lipsesc.
Acest lucru arată că trebuie să luăm niște măsuri urgente. Dumneavoastră pe o parte să luați măsurile pentru ca ACER să-și facă treaba, iar pe de altă parte, Bursa Europeană de Energie. Vrem să avem accountability, vrem să știm care este transparența, să știm cine vinde, cum vinde și să fie cineva care să-i verifice. Și ultimul lucru. Ieri ați anunțat că veți amâna intrarea directivei privind emisiile de metan în vigoare.
440 de cazuri în investigație, 20 rezolvate.
Dan Nica
Domnule comisar, dacă nu se amână și pentru producători, România cu 50% dintre puțurile în funcțiune vechi de 170 de ani va fi într-o situație de catastofă economică. Vă rog să vă uitați la această situație pentru că situația este extrem, extrem de gravă. Mulțumesc.
Antonella Sberna
A blue card if you want from Mr. Madison. Please Mr. Madison for 30 seconds.
Jaak Madison
Let's do it in Estonian for you. Suur aitäh. Mulle meeldib teie rumeenia keel, nii et ma räägin eesti keeles. Esiteks me oleme ju kõik nõus selle elukallidusega, energiahindadega, kuid loomulikult ma pean lihtsalt meelde tuletama rohelistele sotsialistidele, et kui maksustada ja üle reguleerida...
Jaak Madison
Okay, let's do it in English, it's easier. Anyway, I agree totally with you like when we talk about the energy prices, when we talk about the huge prices for the fuels, but I have to remind you that it's the result of the overregulation and taxation. That's what happens. But just last Friday I sent with over 20 colleagues from here a letter to Ursula von der Leyen with a question that isn't it maybe like a good idea to give back the freedom to the member states to reduce the VAT tax to the motor fuels? Because from 2022, from the directive, it's now banned.
It's not possible for the member states to reduce VAT tax for the motor fuels and four years ago it was a part of the green ideology. But now we see the result, member states doesn't have those free hands to react very fastly for those prices and reduce for at least for the VAT tax. Isn't it good idea for you? What do you think?
Eu cred că tot ceea ce înseamnă partea de competitivitate economică trebuie să avem măsurile inteligente și măsurile care să fie proactive.
Dan Nica
Dacă o situație impune ca să intervii pe piață, cum au făcut în Franța, în Italia, în care companiile în mod voluntar și-au pus un cap sau o limită la prețul pentru motorină și benzină, acest lucru trebuie să fie valabil pentru toată lumea. Și a doua chestiune, dacă nivelul taxării, ținând cont de situația internațională, situația din Ormuz sau din Ucraina, necesită o ajustare a taxelor, acest lucru trebuie făcut, pentru că prețul pe care îl plătim pierzând locuri de muncă, pierzând competitivitate este unul uriaș, mult prea mare și acest lucru trebuie să fie adresat de către Comisie, iar noi ca Parlament îi vom sprijini, pentru că interesul nostru este să avem o industrie competitivă și locuri de muncă bine plătite pentru oameni. Altfel pierdem toți.
Raffaele Stancanelli
Grazie Presidente, colleghi, Commissario. Negli ultimi dieci anni, secondo i dati della stessa Commissione europea, il prezzo delle case è aumentato del 60%, i trasporti del 30%. Le bollette sono esplose, non sono opinioni, sono i dati di Bruxelles. Ci dicono che dobbiamo responsabilizzarci, ma non sono i cittadini a dover risolvere la crisi energetica, non sono le piccole imprese a dover risolvere le problematiche climatiche o a pagare le conseguenze della sostenibilità. I cittadini vanno tutelati, è questo il dovere di chi fa politica e di chi governa.
Basta monetizzare le ideologie. Non servono slogan né politiche dal nome rassicurante, servono risultati misurabili nella vita delle persone.
Negli ultimi dieci anni le politiche europee hanno aggravato la vita dei cittadini con obblighi e divieti. E dal 2027 ne arriveranno di nuovi, grazie anche al gas importato. Il costo della vita non è una fatalità. È una scelta politica e noi dobbiamo scegliere di stare dalla parte dei cittadini, riducendo la burocrazia e non imponendo nuovi vincoli.
Antonella Sberna
Onorevole, ci sono due blue card. Prego. The first one, Mr. Gražulis. Please.
Petras Gražulis
Taip, gerbiamas pranešėjau. Europos Komisijos pirmininkė pripažino, kad atominių elektrinių uždarymas yra milžiniška klaida. Viena iš jų buvo uždaryta Lietuvai stojant į Europos Sąjungą ir Lietuvoje. Šiandien vėl Lietuva prašo pinigų skirti papildomai atominės elektrinės užbaigimo procesų uždarymui.
Ar nereikėtų tuos pinigus geriau skirti naujos atominės elektrinės statybai?
Raffaele Stancanelli
Noi siamo perché il nucleare venga riattivato specialmente nei paesi dove è stato eliminato, perché il nucleare di nuova generazione è sicuramente un nucleare pulito e può veramente risolvere i problemi energetici.
Vielen Dank für das Annehmen der Blue Card. Meine Frage ist, Sie haben sehr viel von Problemen gesprochen, aber was sind Ihre ganz konkreten Lösungen, um das Leben zu verbessern und welche Regelungen sollte man auch abbauen?
Raffaele Stancanelli
L'abbiamo già detto tante volte e l'abbiamo dimostrato con i voti in quest'aula. Noi dobbiamo eliminare la burocrazia, fare in modo tale che non vi siano le imposizioni sugli agricoltori, sui trasportatori, su coloro i quali lavorano. Dobbiamo ridurre la burocrazia. L'Europa è diventata una giungla che ammazza le nostre imprese.
Piotr Müller
Szanowni państwo, rozmawiamy dzisiaj o tym, jak pomóc Europejczykom w związku ze zwiększeniem kosztów życia. Dobrze wiemy, że te koszty nie rosną tylko i wyłącznie ze względu na zrządzenie losu, na wojny czy inne kryzysy, które się odbywają wokół nas. One rosną też dlatego, że w Unii Europejskiej przyjmowane są przepisy, które powodują właśnie wzrosty kosztów życia. Mówimy tutaj chociażby o systemie ETS, planowanym systemie ETS 2, różnego rodzaju regulacjach dotyczących budowy budynków, inwestycji infrastrukturalnych i tak dalej. Jeżeli my chcemy naprawdę na poważnie podejść do tego, w jaki sposób obniżyć koszty życia, to popatrzmy również na legislację, która powstaje w Brukseli, w Strasburgu.
Wyciągnijmy z tego wnioski. Apeluję w szczególności do lewej strony sali, aby faktycznie przejrzeli na oczy i zobaczyli, co się będzie działo po przyjęciu systemu ETS 2, jeżeli chodzi o paliwa. Co się będzie działo, jeżeli wdrożymy wszystkie przepisy dotyczące dyrektywy budynkowej, jak wzrosną koszty budowy mieszkań czy właśnie nowych inwestycji. Dlatego apeluję przede wszystkim o przegląd naszych rozwiązań, a nie o patrzenie dookoła i zwalanie winy tylko na to, co się dzieje gdzieś indziej.
Elisabetta Gualmini
Grazie presidente, commissario, siamo in una tempesta perfetta: bassa produttività, salari reali bassi, bassa crescita, prezzi dell'energia esorbitanti, l'inflazione che torna e diversi paesi europei esposti al debito. Dobbiamo chiederci perché il modello sociale europeo non funziona più e perché la democrazia liberale non ha mantenuto le sue promesse di prosperità e servizi pubblici universali. Questo è un humus perfetto per l'esplosione di partiti populisti e partiti antisistema che offrono soluzioni semplici e soffiano sulle paure delle persone. Noi di fatto abbiamo due fenomeni che non si erano mai visti da tempo, molto pericolosi, e cioè una recessione democratica con tendenze illiberali ovunque e la polarizzazione economica con diseguaglianze crescenti. Come si risponde?
Completando il progetto europeo, un mercato unico dell'energia e soprattutto semplificando, dando fiducia, deburocratizzando, spingendo la crescita e la competitività, perché solo così riusciremo a ridistribuire. Grazie.
Antonella Sberna
Onorevole João Cartelino blu. Okay. Please Mr. Botenga for 30 seconds. Oliveira, pardon, sorry.
João Oliveira
Obrigado presidente.
Senhora Deputada, um grupo restrito de entidades, incluindo petrolíferas e entidades financeiras, utiliza um mecanismo de formação de preços para artificialmente maximizarem os seus próprios lucros. Nas contas da Comissão Europeia, o aumento dos preços dos combustíveis fixado desta forma interesseira e artificial custou já aos povos no espaço da União Europeia 90 mil milhões de euros. E a pergunta que lhe faço é se é possível ficar de braços cruzados a assistir a esta pilhagem ou se é preciso mesmo intervir no mecanismo de fixação de preços, impedindo estes abusos que são feitos de forma interesseira pelas petrolíferas e outros interesses financeiros.
Elisabetta Gualmini
Ok, I'm going to answer in Italian. Ma io penso che sì, siamo in una fase in cui le famiglie, soprattutto alcune generazioni, stanno pagando in maniera vergognosa il prezzo di, appunto, profitti straordinari da parte di diverse multinazionali, tra cui anche quelle legate al petrolio. Ora, personalmente sono favorevole alla tassazione degli extraprofitti, ma rilevo che tecnicamente è un meccanismo molto complicato e che quindi andrebbe fatto in maniera seria, perché in realtà se guadagni molto dovresti già pagare più tasse e quindi devono essere disponibili per la ridistribuzione.
Ma non c'è dubbio che in una fase di emergenza dobbiamo assolutamente prendere misure immediate.
Grazie onorevole. Prego onorevole Tagetoff, prego. Ah, sorry. Ah, ok. He's replying.
Obrigado, presidente. Senhora deputada, o problema é mesmo o da fixação dos preços. E esse problema é um problema a propósito dos combustíveis, mas a propósito de praticamente todos os preços dos bens essenciais. Porque a situação que temos é o do aproveitamento pelas multinacionais que usam a guerra como pretexto para fazer subir os preços, naturalmente com os povos a pagarem o aumento do custo de vida. E o controlo e a fixação dos preços é neste momento a única medida verdadeiramente eficaz para travar o custo de vida.
João Oliveira
E a pergunta que lhe faço é se a Comissão Europeia deve ficar alheada destas decisões ou se, pelo contrário, deve promover e incentivar os Estados a adotarem mecanismos de controlo e fixação dos preços para que o custo de vida possa ser de facto travado.
Elisabetta Gualmini
Ma guardi, io non penso che la ricetta sia quella di mettere un tetto e di controllare in maniera iperburocratica tutti i prezzi di tutti i prodotti. Io penso che la ricetta sia, in un continente che ormai non cresce e cresce pochissimo, sia quello invece di aiutare a generare ricchezza, di aiutare a generare competitività. Perché altrimenti noi non riusciremo mai a ridistribuire e ad avere risorse per poter affiancare e collegare la spesa pubblica. Quindi non immagino un'economia sotto controllo, immagino un'economia che compete, che cresce, che crea fiducia nei propri cittadini.
Grazie onorevole. Prego onorevole Tagetoff.
Kai Tegethoff
You work the full month, you do overtime, sometimes you even work with a cold, to then hand over over 70% of your salary just to have a roof over your head. And you haven't even bought groceries yet. All while conservatives and the far right block emergency housing protections to protect speculators. That's not just a headline in Spain. It's the reality crushing an entire generation from Warsaw to Lisbon, Tallinn or Rome.
Everywhere you look, working people are being squeezed until they break. Rent stealing their futures, groceries bills climbing, energy costs soaring. We don't need more hollow words from conservatives who refuse to take on the landlords and corporate giants.
We need public housing people can actually afford. A Europe-wide cap on corporate greed and a system that puts human lives before profit. Stop making excuses for the markets, make markets answer to the people.
Marc Botenga
There is a blue card if you want. No, it's not possible because it's the same group, so. Please Mrs. Galán.
Estrella Galán
Gracias, presidenta. Es la hora, hay que proteger la vida de la gente trabajadora frente a la subida de los precios de la luz y el gas, de la cesta de la compra, de la gasolina, pero sobre todo de la vivienda. Porque detrás de cada subida de precio hay alguien que sufre, pero también hay alguien que se beneficia. Por eso ha llegado la hora de tomar partido, señorías.
En España, mientras subíamos un 66% el salario mínimo, el alquiler se convertía en una aspiradora de rentas traspasando el dinero del bolsillo de las familias al bolsillo de los especuladores. Y ha llegado la hora de ser valientes. Y la gente de mi país lo está siendo, poniendo el cuerpo en la calle. Ha tomado las plazas para que nadie más sea expulsado de su casa, para poner freno a la vivienda como bien especulativo y no como derecho, y poniendo límites a los fondos buitres que están robándonos nuestros barrios. Y mientras, las derechas patriotas votan en contra de cualquier medida para evitarlo.
Sí, señora Gubert, el PP ha votado en contra de todo lo que beneficia a las personas de la calle y a las familias. Y con esa postura están traicionando a su pueblo y son serviles a los poderosos. Pero es la hora, señoras y señores, y el pueblo de nuevo tiene la palabra. Muchas gracias.
Antonella Sberna
Abbiamo una blue card, ma non possiamo farne doppie. No, no, ma non possiamo accettare perché siamo in ritardo, quindi abbiamo chiuso. Prego, onorevole Lykova, prego.
Благодаря, госпожо председател. При всяка криза власт имащите в Брюксел се държат сякаш нямат нищо общо с това. Но тази криза е създадена тук. Първо парите. Погледнете моята страна България.
Влязохме в еврозоната, а на народа беше отказан референдум.
Българите получават най-ниските заплати в съюза. Минималната работна заплата е 620 евро, а това са чисто около 470 евро, а плащат западни цени. България е шампионът на Европа по поскъпване на жилищата. 14% и отгоре за последната година. Едно младо семейство в България днес само може да мечтае за собствен дом.
Rada Laykova
Попитайте тези хора колко им струва еврото. Второ енергията. Зеленият курс на Брюксел направи европейската енергия една от най-скъпите в света, а сега Европейският съюз спира и руския арктически газ и изпраща още пари в Киев. Уж еврото щеше да ни направи по-богати, а сега идва зима, в която хората ще броят всяко евро за храна и отопление. Уважаеми граждани, ако търсите виновника, погледнете към Брюксел.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole. Allora chiudiamo la procedura catch-the-eye perché siamo un po' in ritardo e non saremo in grado di prendere tutti i cartellini blu. Quindi andiamo avanti, vediamo quando arriviamo al momento. Prego onorevole Lexmann.
Ďakujem za slovo. Predstavte si, že si zakladáte rodinu alebo máte malé deti. Bývate natlačení v malom byte s rodičmi a starými rodičmi.
Aj takto žije približne tretina ľudí na Slovensku. Len na potraviny zároveň minú Slováci mesačne viac ako štvrtinu rodinného rozpočtu. A to nehovorím o situáciách rodín, ktoré sa starajú o seniôrného príbuzného alebo majú dieťa so zdravotným znevýhodnením. Riešenia vedia a musia ponúknuť hlavne členské štáty a týmto ich vyzývam, aby zakročili v prospech našich občanov. Ale pomoc tu vieme ponúknuť aj na európskej úrovni.
V prvom rade prestaňme pretláčať ideologické politiky, ktoré ničia náš priemysel a pracovné miesta. Systém ETS, ako aj návrh povinných firemných elektrovodidlách, musí byť zmietnutý zo stola. V druhom rade musíme vytvoriť priaznivé podnikateľské prostredie a znížiť byrokraciu. Iba tak podporíme tvorbu kvalitných pracovných miest. Prvoradým cieľom politiky je slúžiť občanovi.
Prestaňme sa skrývať za frázy a urobme konečne konkrétne kroky, aby sa našim ľuďom žilo lepšie. Ďakujem.
Zahvaljujem, gospođo predsjedavajuća. Svuda možete čuti: cijene divljaju, cijene divljaju.
Biljana Borzan
A što ako vam kažem da može biti još gore? Zamislite da cijene mogu divljati, a vi živite u istočnom dijelu Europe. Još je puno gora situacija ako vam je plaća 900 eura, a mlijeko košta 2 eura, komad mesa 15 eura, šampon 6, dezodorans 5, a stanarina 800. Ne daj Bože da ste bolesni, lijekovi su još i skuplji kod nas. Minimalna bruto plaća u Hrvatskoj je ispod 1000 eura, dok je u Njemačkoj ili u Belgiji preko 2000.
Vjerujte mi, to čini svu razliku na svijetu. Plaće su i dalje višestruko niže nego na zapadu Europe, ali cijene hrane, energije i stanovanja su slične. Inflacija možda usporava, ali cijene se ne vraćaju na staro. Kako onda mlada obitelj može kupiti stan? Kako umirovljenik treba platiti režije?
Biljana Borzan
Europa mora vratiti ono najvažnije, osjećaj građanima da od svoga rada mogu živjeti dostojno. Jer nije problem u tome koliko košta mlijeko, problem je koliko košta litra mlijeka koju možete kupiti za svoju plaću. Pitam Komisiju kako, kada će naš rad vrijediti jednako i hoće li građani Europe desetljećima čekati da njihove plaće sustignu cijene koje su već stigle sa zapada? Hvala.
Dankeschön, Herr Kommissar. Immer mehr Europäer können sich das Leben nicht leisten. Und Ihnen fällt kurzfristig dazu überhaupt nichts ein. Sie wissen doch, wer der größte Preistreiber zumeist überhaupt ist. Nehmen wir mal den Benzinpreis her.
Gerald Hauser
Beispiel Österreich, es wird in der Europäischen Union überall dasselbe sein. Am Benzinpreis sind in Prozenten gerechnet 9 % CO2-Bepreisung, das ist der Green Deal von Ihnen, von der Europäischen Union vorgegeben. 17 % Umsatzsteuer, 33 % Mineralölsteuer. Übrig bleibt ein Nettopreis, das sind 42 %. Einfach gerechnet, wenn das Benzin an der Tankstelle 2 Euro kostet, dann kassiert der Staat 1,16 Euro.
84 Cent kostet das Grundprodukt. Und dann gehen Sie heute her und sagen, die Staaten subventionieren kurzfristig den Preis. Ja, Herr Kommissar, die was machen die Staaten? Sie geben Peanuts an die Bürger zurück und der Moloch Staat kassiert ohne Skrupel.
Das ist das Problem. Denken Sie mal über das nach, entlasten Sie die Bürger und geben weniger Geld für die Kriegswirtschaft aus.
Gheorghe Piperea
Recent, inflația nominală în România a atins pragul de 6,3%, cea mai mare din Uniunea Europeană. Tensiunile geopolitice au împins în sus prețurile energiei în România. TVA-ul a crescut, deficitul bugetar s-a adâncit, moneda națională a slăbit, importurile s-au scumpit și singurii care plătesc factura pentru instabilitatea politică și pentru conflictele care ne înconjoară sunt cetățenii. Pentru o familie din România, criza costului vieții nu este o dezbatere academică sau politică. Este alegerea între chirie și factura la energie, între mâncare și medicamente, între a rămâne acasă la muncă în România și a pleca la muncă în străinătate.
Astăzi, simplul fapt că ai un loc de muncă nu te protejează neapărat de sărăcie.
Când Comisia vorbește despre empowering Europeans și strategii antisărăcie, întrebarea nu este dacă avem strategii sau nu. Întrebarea este dacă aceste strategii schimbă realitatea unei familii românești la sfârșitul iernii. Traiul decent nu cere privilegii. Cere respect pentru oameni, pentru oamenii care muncesc, plătesc taxe și țin această economie în picioare. Mulțumesc.
Sigrid Friis
Fossil energy is like a toxic ex: super unstable and way too hard to get rid of. Luckily, I want to help Europe move on. Move on from expensive gas and petrol bills, move on from dependence on Russia, move on from polluting the global climate. And moving on from fossil fuels will also make everyday life cheaper for Europeans. And that matters now more than ever.
Lower prices will not come from short-term fixes. We need solutions that tackle the problem at its root. That means building stronger electricity grids, investing in more clean and more homegrown energy.
Sigrid Friis
It means cutting emissions, lowering our dependence on imported fossil fuels and giving European businesses and citizens access to cheaper and more secure energy. Because the energy choices we make today will determine the prices that Europeans pay in the future. Renewables are already the cheapest source of new power in many parts of Europe and driving electric is already cheaper than driving on petrol. What are we waiting for? Europe needs to move on.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, vi chiedo di rimanere nei tempi. Prego onorevole Doherty, prego.
Regina Doherty
President, if you're living in Dublin and getting up every morning, packing the school bags and heading off to work to provide your family, you hear constantly that Ireland has a strong economy, but let's be honest, that means very little if you're not feeling the benefit of it. If you work hard, you absolutely should feel the benefit of a thriving economy. And that's why this week, Fine Gael and their government partners brought forward Budget 2027 to help with that. We're cutting income tax rates, we're raising the minimum wage, we're reducing childcare costs, supporting renters and managing, or at least trying to manage, energy costs this winter. We're also looking forward to the future too.
Our new investment account will give Irish families up to 50,000 euros of a tax-free threshold just to be able to invest in their own future.
But we have to be honest about these things. The pressures are not just unique to Ireland. We can't control every war, every global crisis or every energy shock, but we can control how we respond to them. And that's why Europe must step up. We absolutely must do more.
Controlling and supporting energy costs have to be our absolute priority, Commissioner. Thank you.
Muchas gracias, presidenta. Solo en el segundo trimestre, la energía y los lubricantes agrarios han subido un 22% y los fertilizantes un 13,4%. Pero a pesar de esas impresionantes subidas, los precios de venta de los agricultores han bajado de media un 5,8%. Son datos de Eurostat. A la vez ocurre que al final el precio final de la cesta de la compra está por las nubes y no para de subir.
¿Qué está ocurriendo? El agricultor está vendiendo a pérdidas y el ciudadano está perdiendo nivel adquisitivo. Y todos sabemos quién se lo está llevando: aquellos que juegan con las materias primas para que unos pocos se hagan ricos. Urgen respuestas europeas. La primera, gravar los beneficios caídos del cielo.
La segunda, ayudar a los ciudadanos y también a los agricultores, tal y como está haciendo, por cierto, el Gobierno de España: más de 12.000 millones de euros para ayudar a quienes se ven afectados por la subida de los precios y, por supuesto, también medidas fiscales. Segundo, reducir nuestra dependencia exterior.
Cristina Maestre
Es muy importante que impulsemos de verdad la producción europea de fertilizantes y el autoconsumo energético de las explotaciones. Y por último, impedir que los agricultores sean, como siempre, los grandes perjudicados, porque hay que reforzar su papel en la cadena de valor y exigir transparencia en los precios también en el destinatario final. Muchas gracias, presidente.
Jorge Martín Frías
Gracias, señora presidenta. Señorías, la vida es cada vez más cara, lo que dificulta a nuestros compatriotas prosperar, formar una familia y tener un hogar. Es un hecho, y la violencia política que la izquierda ejerce en nuestras calles no puede tapar las nefastas consecuencias de sus políticas. La sobrerregulación y la inmigración masiva son sinónimo de pobreza, una fórmula letal para nuestras sociedades, a las que se asfixia con impuestos mientras el Estado abandona sus funciones básicas, como son la seguridad, la defensa y la justicia, para dedicarse a imponer la ingeniería social y sus delirantes políticas. Lo hemos visto y lo vemos en Ceuta, donde el Gobierno socialista, pese a contar con información previa, permitió la invasión y dejó indefensos a los ceutíes.
Y lo vemos en el resto de España, donde tras ocho años de Pedro Sánchez y todos sus socios de coalición, los españoles no pueden acceder a una vivienda.
La alternativa pasa por recuperar la prosperidad. La para recuperar la prosperidad la alternativa pasa por prioridad nacional, desregulación y remigración. Muchas gracias.
Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues, je ne me remets pas de ce titre en fait. Je ne me remets pas du fait que dans l'une des plus fortes puissances économiques mondiales, un continent dont l'objectif était l'économie sociale de marché, était la prospérité, on soit aujourd'hui en train de discuter du coût de la vie. C'est une honte et c'est une alarme, c'est une alerte. Et pardon, pourquoi on discute du coût de la vie ? On est devenus pauvres dans ce continent ?
Aurore Lalucq
Non, on est riches. On est profondément riches. Ça veut dire qu'il y a un problème de répartition. Et aujourd'hui, il y a des gens qui se font de l'argent, qui se font de l'argent sur la guerre. Ce sont des profits indécents.
Et ces profits doivent être d'urgence redistribués, ces profits non mérités, d'urgence redistribués aux Européens, aux Européens qui n'arrivent plus aujourd'hui à se déplacer. Comment on peut supporter une telle situation ? Qui n'arrivent plus aujourd'hui à aller travailler. Comment on peut aujourd'hui supporter une telle situation dans notre continent, l'Europe ? C'est inadmissible.
Donc la taxation des superprofits, je suis désolée, ça ne doit plus être un débat.
Aurore Lalucq
Ça doit être une nécessité aujourd'hui. Et je vous conseille très sincèrement, politiquement, d'y réfléchir pas à deux fois, mais de le faire immédiatement car ça ne tiendra pas.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole. Abbiamo concluso il dibattito e iniziamo la procedura catch-the-eye. Possiamo accettarne uno per gruppo. Iniziamo onorevole Brunjak per un minuto. E siate, posso chiedervi molto stretti con i tempi.
Grazie.
Nikolina Brnjac
Hvala poštovana predsjedavajuća, povjereniče, kolegice i kolege. Troškovi života danas su jedna od najvećih briga europskih građana, naših mladih ljudi. I gotovo polovica potrošnje europskih kućanstava odlazi samo na tri stvari: hranu, stanovanje i energiju te prijevoz. Cijene stanova u Europskoj uniji porasle su više od 60 % od 2013. godine, a značajno su porasli i troškovi prijevoza. Europa i dalje 57 % energije koju troši dobiva iz uvezenih fosilnih goriva, a samo prošle godine na njihov smo uvoz potrošili oko 340 milijardi eura.
Građanima koji su najviše pogođeni moramo pomoći ciljanim mrežama i mjerama.
Europa prije svega mora povećati ponudu stanova, više graditi, brže graditi, prenamijeniti zgrade i mobilizirati investicije za priuštivo stanovanje za naše mlade ljude. Hvala.
Speaker 153
Speram să încep cu o întrebare direct către dumneavoastră. Noi dezbatem capacitatea europenilor pentru a face față crizei costurilor vieții. Din intervenția dumneavoastră am reținut doar vreo 20 de trebuie, trebuie, trebuie. Dar care ar fi măsurile concrete? Pentru că dacă rămânem cu trebuie, eu nu mă pot duce în țara mea să le spun am dezbătut în Parlamentul European și iată care sunt soluțiile.
Maria Grapini
Poate vă gândiți, domnule comisar, de exemplu, să scoateți din deficitul bugetar pe care îl impuneți statelor membre costurile pentru investiții în apărare, costurile pentru locuințe sociale sau de ce nu subvenția la energie pe perioada sezonului rece pentru persoanele vulnerabile. Pentru că altfel doar dezbatem aici și situația cetățenilor europeni, ați spus-o și dumneavoastră, se înrăutățește. Avem copii în sărăcie, avem în mediul rural persoane adulte în sărăcie, avem oameni fără acoperiș și nu putem să continuăm doar cu politica trebuie.
De aceea mi-ar plăcea să veniți, domnule comisar, cu niște răspunsuri concrete către noi, către Parlament. Mulțumesc.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Arvoisa puhemies. Suomen Autoliitto kertoo meille, mikä on EU:n ongelma. Suora sitaatti: "EU-sääntelyllä nostetaan ensin fossiilisen energian ja liikkumisen kustannuksia, minkä jälkeen rakennetaan uusi tukijärjestelmä lieventämään sääntelyn aiheuttamia haittoja." Se on täsmälleen näin päätöntä, miten Autoliitto sen kuvaa. Mutta mitä tekee EU?
Kiristää päästökaupan ulottumaan myös liikenteeseen vuoden 2028 alusta. Polttoaineiden hintoihin se voi tarkoittaa noin 20 tai 30 sentin litrahinnan nousua. Tämä on EU:lta likainen isku energiakriisissä kärvisteleville kansalaisille. Niille EU-päättäjille, jotka tämän päästökauppapommin takana ovat, haluan vielä lähettää toisen Autoliiton sitaatin lopputerveisinä: "Liikenneköyhyyden tehokkain ehkäisykeino on huolehtia siitä, ettei välttämättömästä liikkumisesta tehdä alun perinkään liian kallista." Miettikääpä sitä.
Antonella Sberna
Kiitos.
Grazie onorevole, prego onorevole Agirregoitia Martínez, se prego.
Las facturas energéticas han aumentado un 35 % en cinco años y los precios de los alimentos casi se han duplicado desde el año 2015.
Oihane Agirregoitia Martínez
El Banco Central Europeo nos está diciendo que la inflación va a aumentar un 3% va a llegar al 3% en 2026 y esto va a ocurrir en Navidades. Y por lo tanto millones de ciudadanos europeos ya no es que sientan o vean como una amenaza la crisis sino que la notan en sus bolsillos día a día. Y claro es que los salarios no aumentan en la misma proporción y todavía hoy mismo leíamos en prensas que las empresas siderúrgicas vascas afrontan un sobrecoste del 70% en la factura eléctrica. Y ahí quiero poner el foco. Yo sé que este debate a veces es un poco frustrante porque las medidas son en el largo plazo y son necesarias y hay que hacerlas pero nos afecta demasiado todo lo que ocurre en Oriente Medio, las decisiones que toman otros líderes internacionales y por lo tanto lo que pedimos a la Comisión Europea es que trabaje en una guía de 10 acciones de impacto en el corto plazo para que las personas y las empresas sientan que nos estamos preocupando por ellos y por ellas y que somos capaces de combinar la estrategia en el medio y en el largo con la acción inmediata del corto plazo.
Eskerrik asko.
Gordan Bosanac
Thank you. Evo na kraju ove debate ne mogu se prestati čuditi kako i dalje dobar dio naših kolega se čudi kako su sada cijene goriva visoke i priča o nekakvoj energetskoj krizi pogotovo kolege s desnice. Al budimo realni ovo nije energetska kriza.
Ovo je kriza fosilnih goriva. Onih goriva za koje ste vi slavili pobjedu Donalda Trumpa i otvarali šampanjce kada je pobijedio, a pitam se da li sada otvarate isto šampanjac kad dođete na benzinsku stanicu i morate plaćati visoku cijenu ovog goriva. Kolege, možda vas moram još jednom podsjetiti, Europska unija nema fosilnih goriva. Europska unija ima sunce, Europska unija ima vjetar i pred nama je sada situacija da možemo postati energetski neovisni i napokon smanjiti cijene energenata. I molim vas i pozivam vas da prestanete biti opstrukcija tome putu.
A povjereniče za vas, što možemo učiniti u našem sljedećem proračunu Europske unije da novac ne ide ponovno u nova fosilna goriva i ponovno u dizanje cijena stanova. Hvala.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ κύριε Πρόεδρε. Εκατομμύρια Ευρωπαίοι πολίτες δυσκολεύονται να ανταπεξέλθουν στη συνεχή αύξηση της ενέργειας και του κόστους ζωής. Στην Ελλάδα έξι στα δέκα νοικοκυριά το εισόδημά τους δεν φτάνει μέχρι το τέλος του μήνα και τρεις στους δέκα Έλληνες είναι στα όρια της φτώχειας. Οι μικρομεσαίες επιχειρήσεις ασφυκτιούν. Η κοινωνία φτωχοποιείται.
Elena Kountoura
Οι αγρότες αγωνίζονται για την επιβίωσή τους και χιλιάδες πολίτες χάνουν τις περιουσίες τους. Κύριε Επίτροπε, ενδυνάμωση των πολιτών σημαίνει αντιμετώπιση της ακρίβειας, σημαίνει ότι η εργασία θα εξασφαλίζει μία αξιοπρεπή ζωή, ότι η κατοικία θα αντιμετωπίζεται ως δικαίωμα, σημαίνει ότι η ενέργεια και τα τρόφιμα θα είναι προσιτά σε όλους. Χρειαζόμαστε άμεσα οριζόντια ευρωπαϊκά μέτρα, να θεσπιστεί μία φιλόδοξη πράξη για ποιοτικές θέσεις εργασίας, να αντιμετωπιστούν τα ολιγοπώλια, τα καρτέλ και τα υπερβολικά περιθώρια κέρδους, να φορολογηθούν τα έκτακτα υπερκέρδη και να εξασφαλιστεί ισχυρή ευρωπαϊκή χρηματοδότηση για την καταπολέμηση της φτώχειας και την κοινωνική συνοχή.
Petar Volgin
Президенте, окей. Питам европейските ръководители: докога ще се правят, че не виждат слона в стаята? Докога ще отричате основната причина за повишаването на цените на енергията, а оттук и повишаването на всички цени? Главната причина за ценовия скок в Европа е доброволният отказ на Европейския съюз от евтиния руски тръбопроводен газ и замяната му с много по-скъп втечнен газ от Съединените щати и други места. Вместо да погледнете реалността в очите, Брюксел продължава със самоубийствената си русофобия, решавайки окончателно да прекрати вноса на руски газ.
Никакви фондове и никакви компенсации няма да помогнат на хората да устоят на ценовия удар. Европейските държави се нуждаят от достъпна енергия, само така можем да се справим с лавинообразното поскъпване на всичко. Защото без евтина енергия няма конкурентоспособна икономика, няма силна индустрия и няма висок жизнен стандарт. Урсула фон дер Лайен се похвали наскоро, задето сме се били освободили от токсичната руска енергийна зависимост. Всъщност ще можем да се поздравим едва тогава, когато се освободим от токсичното брюкселско управление.
Благодаря.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie, grazie onorevole. Prego onorevole Zacharia. Prego. Silenzio per favore.
Maria Zacharia
Επίτροπε Σίμσον και συνάδελφοι, στέγη, ρεύμα, καύσιμα, τρόφιμα, όλα ακριβότερα. Χαμηλοί μισθοί, υπερφορολόγηση για παραγωγή υπερπλεονασμάτων, δις σε στρατιωτικούς εξοπλισμούς και ιδιωτικοποίηση κάθε δημόσιας υπηρεσίας, υποδομής και περιουσίας. Τα πάντα μεταφράζονται ως εμπόρευμα, ως επενδυτικά προϊόντα. Και εσείς μιλάτε για ανταγωνιστικότητα, ιδιωτικές επενδύσεις και πάνω από όλους και από όλα οι αγορές. Το πρόβλημα δεν είναι ότι ο καπιταλισμός που ταυτίζεστε δεν λειτουργεί σωστά.
Λειτουργεί ακριβώς όπως είναι δομημένος να λειτουργεί. Ο πλούτος συγκεντρώνεται στους λίγους και οι πολλοί πληρώνουν το λογαριασμό. Και αυτός ο φαύλος κύκλος δεν θα κλείσει για λίγο καλύτερη ρύθμιση της ίδιας αγοράς. Θα κλείσει όταν οι κοινωνίες αποφασίσουν ότι οι ανάγκες των ανθρώπων είναι πάνω από τα κέρδη και απομακρύνουν από τις θέσεις εξουσίας τους θιασώτες του καπιταλισμού. Γιατί σήμερα ο σοσιαλισμός είναι πιο επίκαιρος από ποτέ.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, abbiamo concluso la procedura Catch-the-eye, do la parola al commissario Jørgensen a nome della Commissione. Prego.
Dan Jørgensen
47 million people, almost one of every ten European citizens, struggle to adequately pay their heating bills in a normal winter. That is obviously totally unacceptable. Now we know that this winter is going to be tough. We know that because of the present crisis in the Middle East, energy prices are going to be even higher than they normally are. So we need to act.
We need to act on the short term. We need to deploy whatever we can of measures that will help the most vulnerable groups, do it in a target and a temporary way. And we need to also stay on course in the strategy that we know is the only one that will work long term. Structural change that lead to more homegrown cheap renewables, more energy efficiency to get us out of our dependency of fossil fuels. Now, a lot of you have mentioned taxes.
I think actually that's one of the things that has united this house. Some, maybe most on this side of the room, think that taxes should just be lower in general. Others, maybe in this side of the room, think that it needs to be more targeted. I have one suggestion that might unite us. This is something that member states can do tomorrow.
They don't have to wait for Brussels. They don't have to wait for us coming with a proposal, co-legislation, months of negotiations. They can do it tomorrow. They can lower tax on electricity. Lower tax on electricity, that will make it easier for their citizens to have their economy get by, and it will help us electrify our economy.
Thank you.
Antonella Sberna
Prego Ministro Byrne a nome del Consiglio per le sue conclusioni. Prego.
Thomas Byrne
Grazie mille Vicepresidente. Thank you very much, this debate has been very interesting indeed and I set out at the start some of the actions and the discussions that the Council is having at the moment, working with the Parliament and with the Commission. But I can also mention the multiannual financial framework, the competitiveness agenda. They're all about making Europe more competitive and getting more good jobs into our economy. The work we're doing this week on the grids package is designed to make our energy systems better and therefore more affordable for our citizens around the European Union.
We will continue to work on this issue as a Council and of course as the Commission says, as national governments, to ensure that we can deliver for our citizens whether it's through the European institutions or through our national institutions. Thank you very much.
Roberta Metsola
Grazie Ministro, la discussione è chiusa. So dear colleagues, the sitting is resumed. Can I ask you to take your seats please? So today marks three years since the terrorist attack by Hamas on Israel of 7th of October 2023 that saw close to 1,200 people murdered and 251 people taken hostage. Please join me therefore in welcoming to the chamber this afternoon Omri Miran, who was taken hostage and who spent 738 days in captivity.
He is with us today here. Dear Almog, thank you for being with us today and I know your story of courage and resilience as you've just seen resonates across this house. Now dear colleagues, the competent authorities of Poland have addressed a request to me for the parliamentary immunity of Michał Szczerba to be waived. This request is referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs. We now come to the votes.
We go to the report by Mr Matteo Ricci on the CO2 emission class of heavy-duty vehicles with trailers. I give the floor to the rapporteur, Mr Ricci, for two minutes.
Matteo Ricci
Thank you, President, I will speak Italian. Siamo al voto su un dossier che sembrava un semplice adeguamento tecnico dell'Eurovignette ai nuovi standard di CO2 per camion e autobus, ma che ha richiesto un confronto politico vero. L'accordo del 30 giugno scorso è un buon accordo, rispecchia in larga misura le priorità del Parlamento. Il principio di fondo è chiaro: chi meno inquina, meno paga il pedaggio. Ringrazio i relatori ombra per la collaborazione leale e costruttiva di un accordo che riguarda principalmente due punti.
Il primo: sui rimorchi manca ancora una metodologia armonizzata. Abbiamo ottenuto una clausola di revisione che impegna la Commissione a presentare entro il giugno '29 una valutazione basata anche su progetti pilota e, se necessario, una proposta legislativa. Il punto due: su un regime transitorio rafforziamo gli incentivi per i veicoli pesanti a basse emissioni. Gli Stati membri che già applicano un'esenzione ai veicoli a zero emissioni potranno aumentare lo sconto sui pedaggi fino al 75%. Per i veicoli a zero emissioni l'esenzione totale resta possibile fino al 2031, con una riduzione al 75% dopo quella data.
Senza accordo gli Stati membri avrebbero dovuto riclassificare tutti i veicoli con un pesante aggravio per autorità e imprese. Con l'intesa evitiamo questo costo e garantiamo una transizione ordinata. Mi auguro quindi un voto a larga maggioranza. Grazie.
Roberta Metsola
Grazie onorevole Ricci. We first vote on the provisional agreement amendment 18 by roll-call vote is open. Vote is closed. And it's adopted therefore the first reading of Parliament is closed. We move next to the report by Mr. Pierfrancesco Maran and Ms. Melissa Camara on empowering France to accede to the Inter-American Convention for the Protection and Conservation of Sea Turtles.
I give the floor to both co-rapporteurs each for one minute. Mr. Maran cominci lei.
Pierfrancesco Maran
Madam President, colleagues, sea turtles have crossed our oceans for over 100 million years. They know no borders and no single country can protect them alone. That is why today's vote matters.
By empowering France to accede to the Inter-American Convention for the Protection and Conservation of Sea Turtles, we enable cooperation with the countries of the region to protect nesting beaches and habitats, reduce bycatch, and fight illegal trade. I would like to thank my co-rapporteur Camara and all shadow rapporteurs for the excellent and constructive cooperation from the first meeting to the final vote. We came from different political families, yet the text was adopted unanimously in committee, because protecting biodiversity is not a left or right issue, it should be a shared responsibility. Let us confirm that unanimity today, and we speak with one voice for nature, and for sure turtles will appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Maran. Now Ms. Camara. Ah, she's not here. Okay. We'll vote on the provisional agreement, amendment six, by roll-call vote.
Roberta Metsola
Vote is closed. And it's adopted. First reading of Parliament is closed. We vote on the report by Ms. Lena Düpont on the consular protection for unrepresented citizens of the Union in third countries. Amendments by the committee responsible, block vote by show of hands.
Who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Adopted. We move to the amendments to Directive 2015/637.
Amendment 42 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected. Amendment 39 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed.
Rejected. Amendment 19. Who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains?
Adopted. Amendment 38 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted. Amendment 40 by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Rejected. Amendment 41 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Vote on the Commission proposal by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Adopted. We move to the report by Ms Sandra Gómez López on the mobilisation of the European Globalisation Adjustment Fund for Displaced Workers application Galicia automotive ancillary Spain. I give the floor to the rapporteur Ms Gómez López for two minutes.
Gracias. Gracias, presidenta. Gracias a este fondo... Sí, ¿se escucha? Gracias, presidenta.
Sandra Gómez López
Gracias a este fondo, 400 trabajadores gallegos despedidos del sector de la automoción van a volver a encontrar un trabajo. Y este fondo es una muestra de la solidaridad europea, pero también nos obliga a preguntarnos hacia dónde vamos. Porque ayudar a quien pierde un trabajo es imprescindible, pero evitar que Europa pierda industria y oportunidades también lo es. Y lo digo porque hace poco recibimos una carta de algunos gobiernos europeos exigiendo más recortes. Y a eso lo llamaban preparar a Europa para el futuro.
¿En serio? ¿Vamos a recortar la PAC y vamos a crear un fondo de compensación para agricultores que abandonen los campos?
Sandra Gómez López
¿A los jóvenes que nos piden un plan de vivienda les vamos a crear también un fondo como perdedores frente a los fondos de inversión y fondos buitre? ¿De qué sirve blindar nuestras fronteras si dentro solo quedan fábricas cerradas, campos abandonados y las plazas llenas de jóvenes y tiendas de campaña porque no pueden encontrar una casa? Desde luego hay muchos gobiernos que parece que son mucho más valientes en apretar a su propia ciudadanía que, por ejemplo, en aprobar una tasa frente a las Big Tech, frente a que están ganando miles de millones de euros gracias a nuestro mercado único y aún se atreven, por cierto, a influir en nuestros procesos electorales. Por eso este fondo es muy importante, porque nuestros trabajadores gallegos claro que merecen nuestro apoyo y nuestro respeto, pero sobre todo lo que merecen es que no nos resignemos a que su historia se repita y que estos fondos de compensación sean una mera excusa por la Europa que pudimos construir y que no nos atrevimos a defender, porque construimos este proyecto para defender nuestro futuro y construir nuestro futuro, no para administrar nuestra decadencia. Gracias.
So, amendment one, who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment two. Who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment three. Who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. The vote on the resolution as a whole by roll-call vote is open. Vote is closed.
Adopted. Now we have the report by Mr. Nikos Stefanoutsa on the mobilization of the European Globalization Adjustment Fund for displaced workers, application for Valmet Automotive, Finland. Amendment one. Who's in favor? Who's against?
Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment two. Who's in favor? Who's against?
Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment three. Who's in favor? Who's against?
Roberta Metsola
Who abstains? Rejected. The vote on the resolution as a whole by roll-call vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted.
Now we have the report by Mr. Helder Sousa Silva on the mobilization of the European Globalization Adjustment Fund for displaced workers, application for Cora, Belgium. Amendment three. Who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment 2, who's in favor? Who's against?
Who abstains? Rejected. We vote on the resolution as a whole by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted.
Now we have the report by Ms. Hilde Vautmans on the recommendation of an EU-China political relations. Reminder that the debates continue right after. Amendment 12 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Amendment 60 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected. 61, who's in favor? Who's against?
Who abstains? Rejected. 13 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Roberta Metsola
Amendment 62, who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment 14, who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment 1 by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Adopted. Amendment 27 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Amendment 63, who's in favor, who's against, who abstains? Rejected. 64 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
65, who's in favor, who's against, who abstains? Rejected. 15, who's in favor, who's against, who abstains? Rejected. 28, who's in favor, who's against, who abstains?
Rejected. 29 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted. 32 by RCV, vote is open.
Roberta Metsola
Vote is closed. Rejected. 33 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Amendment 66 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected. Amendment 16 by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Adopted. Amendment 67 by roll call vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Amendment 17, who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment 18, who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment 34 by roll call vote is open. Vote is closed.
Rejected. Amendment 19, who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected.
Amendment 68, who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? 41, who's in favor? Rejected.
Who's against? Who abstains? Let's check this 41. Vote is closed. Adopted.
Amendment 69 by roll call vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected. I give the floor to Mr. Bart Groothuis to move an oral amendment to amend the paragraph 1.AA.
Bart Groothuis
Thank you, President.
A new and terrifying Chinese law came into force last Thursday. The Chinese army will be in charge of all technology, all data and all software of Chinese company, also here in Europe, when President Xi would decide to mobilize its army. So let that sink in, colleagues. Companies bound by law to serve China's military, they cannot be a trusted supplier of Europe's critical infrastructure. I therefore propose an oral amendment to paragraph 1.AA by adding, I quote: "condemns China's revised National Defense Mobilization Law, which came into effect on the 1st of October 2026 and brings all Chinese technology, all data and software under direct authority of China's military leadership in the event of mobilization; highlights the urgent need to de-risk critical ICT supply chains."
Thank you very much. Is there any opposition to the oral amendment? No. Okay, so I put the oral amendment to the vote by roll call. Vote is open.
Vote is closed.
It's adopted. Amendment 20 by roll call. Vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Amendment 30 by roll call. Vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted. 21 by roll call.
Vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected. 35 by roll call. Vote is open.
Vote is closed. Rejected. Amendment 3 by roll call. Vote is open. Vote is closed.
Roberta Metsola
Adopted. Amendment 24 by roll call. Vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted.
Amendment 4 by roll call. Vote is open.
Vote is closed. Adopted. 43 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted.
Amendment 44, who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Adopted. 31 by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Adopted. Paragraph 1.AU original text in three parts. First part, who's in favor? Who's against?
Who abstains? Adopted. Second part by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted.
Third part by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted. Amendment 45, who's in favor? Who's against?
Who abstains? Let's check again. 45. Open. Vote is closed.
Rejected. Amendment 22 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected. 46, who's in favor?
Who's against? Who abstains? Adopted.
Roberta Metsola
70: who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. 23 by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Rejected. Amendment 36 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Amendment 47: who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected. Amendment 48 by RCV, vote is open.
Vote is closed. Rejected. Amendment 49: who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains?
Rejected. Recital F, amendment 50: who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Rejected.
Original text in two parts. First part: who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains? Adopted.
Second part by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted. Amendment 5 by RCV, vote is open. Vote is closed.
Rejected. Amendment 37: who's in favor? Who's against? Who abstains?
Let's check this, please, amendment 37. Vote is closed, it's clear. Adopted. Amendment 51 by roll-call vote is open. Vote is closed.
Rejected. Amendment 6, who is in favor? Who is against? Who abstains? Rejected.
Amendment 25 by roll-call vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted. Amendment 7, who is in favor? Who is against?
Who abstains? Amendment 8 by roll-call vote is open. Rejected. Vote is closed. Rejected.
Roberta Metsola
Amendment 9 by roll-call vote is open.
Vote is closed. Rejected amendment 53 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected 26 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected 54 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected 55 by RCV vote is open. Vote is closed. Rejected amendment 56 by RCV vote is open. Vote is closed.
Rejected amendment 38 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains adopted amendment 10 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected amendment 11 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected amendment 57 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected 58 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected 59 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains rejected 39 who's in favor, who's against, who abstains adopted 40 in two parts, first part who's in favor, who's against, who abstains adopted and second part by RCV vote is open. Vote is closed. Adopted we vote on the resolution as a whole by RCV vote is open. Wait, wait, vote is closed. Adopted.
Congratulations, have a good afternoon.
Esteban González Pons
Dear colleagues, I beg those who are not going to participate in the debate to leave the room and enjoy the lunch. The minutes of yesterday's sitting and the text adopted are available. Are there any comments? The minutes are approved. The next item on the agenda is topical debate represented by a political group, Greens/EFA, Rule 169, urgent need for a tax on super-profits of polluters, protecting people's health and lowering energy bills in times of climate crisis.
Dear colleagues,
I would like to inform members that for this debate there is no catch-the-eye procedure and no blue cards will be accepted. As first speaker, I give the floor to Madame Toussaint as author of the issue. Please, Madame, you have the floor.
Marie Toussaint
Chers collègues, Monsieur le Commissaire, Monsieur le représentant du Conseil, les Européens paient cher le prix de vos choix politiques. Ils le paient à la pompe, ils le paient à la caisse, ils le paient parfois de leur vie parce que vous avez refusé d'agir face au dérèglement climatique, aux polluants éternels ou aux pesticides chimiques. Voilà pourquoi nous, les écologistes, avons demandé ce débat sur la taxation des superprofits des superpollueurs pour protéger le pouvoir d'achat et la santé des Européennes et des Européens. Et pour, au fond, vous poser une question simple : quand donc préférerez-vous les Européens aux dividendes de la finance ? Prenons l'exemple des géants du pétrole.
Esteban González Pons
Sorry, sorry, Madame, sorry, Madame, we have a problem with interpretation. English interpretation, can we solve it? Excusez-moi, Madame. Yes, okay. You can begin since the beginning.
I'm going to give you four minutes again. And forgive me.
Okay, thank you, thank you, Mr. Chair. Very well, I begin again. Chers collègues, Monsieur le Commissaire, Monsieur le représentant du Conseil, les Européens paient cher le prix de vos choix politiques.
Marie Toussaint
Ils le paient à la pompe, ils le paient à la caisse, ils le paient parfois de leur vie parce que vous avez refusé d'agir contre le dérèglement climatique, les polluants éternels ou les pesticides chimiques. Voilà pourquoi nous, les écologistes, avons demandé ce débat aujourd'hui sur la taxation des superprofits des superpollueurs pour protéger la santé et le pouvoir d'achat des Européennes et des Européens et pour, au fond, vous poser une question simple : quand donc préférerez-vous les Européens aux dividendes de la finance ? Prenons l'exemple des géants du pétrole. Ils ont accumulé plus de 7 milliards d'euros de profits en moins de six mois juste dans l'Union européenne. Mais hier, vous vous êtes à nouveau opposés à la taxation de leurs superprofits.
Qu'ont-ils donc fait pour être ainsi exonérés de toute responsabilité dans l'explosion des prix à la pompe, de la précarité ou du dérèglement climatique ? Pire encore, le patron de la plus grande entreprise pétrolière européenne, TotalEnergies, revendique désormais préférer un monde en bouleversement plutôt qu'un monde en paix. Chers collègues, taxer les superprofits est possible. L'Espagne le fait, plusieurs États le réclament. Une telle taxe rapporterait 6 milliards par an à l'Europe.
Comment peut-on s'en passer quand il manque encore 750 milliards pour financer la transformation énergétique et alléger les factures des ménages ? Et laissez-moi vous dire que c'était en réalité peu demander car ces entreprises écocidaires devraient être mises hors d'état de nuire à notre économie et à notre population.
Marie Toussaint
Elles devraient passer sous contrôle public européen afin qu'elles cessent de polluer, d'alimenter les guerres et de vider les portefeuilles des citoyens. Mais malheureusement, la liste des pollueurs ne s'arrête pas aux portes des énergies fossiles. Parce que vous voulez aussi donner un blanc-seing aux producteurs de pesticides, Bayer en tête, qui vend aussi des médicaments, comme si Bayer avait besoin d'aide de l'Europe pour engraisser encore ses actionnaires. Là encore, nous vous invitons à faire le choix des gens. Le choix de Théo Grataloup, dont la maman Sabine, femme courage comme son fils, viendra ici vous interpeller contre ces pesticides responsables de la maladie de son enfant.
Le choix de Laure Marivain, fleuriste, qui a perdu sa fille après avoir manipulé, enceinte, des fleurs traitées aux pesticides. Le choix de Paul François, agriculteur intoxiqué par un produit de Monsanto. Mais à ces familles, que répondez-vous ? Les firmes des pesticides ont menti et menti encore. Elles ont caché des études scientifiques aux autorités européennes.
Elles devraient au fond se voir interdites de vendre et pesticides et médicaments. Elles le font pour des profits jamais partagés, mais vous les soutenez encore et toujours. Cela doit cesser. Enfin, les polluants éternels. L'Europe doit les interdire.
Tous. Maintenant.
Marie Toussaint
Et si nous avons utilisé notre niche écologiste pour organiser ce débat aujourd'hui, c'est parce que vos groupes politiques ont toujours refusé de le mettre à l'ordre du jour. Pourquoi ? Craignez-vous donc d'assumer publiquement votre position allant à l'encontre de la santé des citoyens ? Je pourrais vous parler de Jean-René, qui travaille dans la chimie le jour et pompier volontaire le soir, le corps imbibé de PFAS toute la journée pour protéger nos vies. Des mamans PFAS comme Cristina Guarda en Italie, tellement inquiète pour la santé de leurs enfants.
Ou des ouvriers de Solvay à Salindres, licenciés sèchement après avoir été exposés à des niveaux hyper élevés de polluants éternels. Voyez-vous, 110 Européens ont été testés à notre initiative. Tous sont hyper contaminés. Alors nous devons sortir de la civilisation des toxiques et cela passe par trois étapes indispensables. Un, que la Commission propose d'interdire tous les polluants éternels.
Marie Toussaint
Là encore, plusieurs États membres le demandent, les scientifiques aussi, il ne manque que nous. Deux, qu'elle garantisse la protection des travailleurs et des travailleuses européens. Amiante, plomb, chlordécone, l'inaction écologique a fait des ravages sur la santé des ouvriers européens avant de heurter la population tout entière. Protégeons enfin les cols bleus. Et trois, qu'elle mette hors d'état de nuire les entreprises voyous qui dépensent des millions pour influencer l'Europe, mentent sur les effets de leurs produits et contaminent la planète.
Ce débat, chers collègues, est l'occasion de clarifier vos positions. Allez-vous faire payer les pollueurs ou continuer à laisser les victimes payer l'addition ? Les Européens vous écoutent.
Esteban González Pons
Merci, Madame. On behalf of the Council, Minister Byrne, you have the floor.
Thomas Byrne
Merci beaucoup, Madame Toussaint, and thank you very much to the Green Party for putting this forward, the European Greens for putting this forward, and congratulations indeed to the co-chairs of the party who were elected, I think, in their group yesterday. Due to recent developments in the Middle East, we all, the honorable members all know this, the Commission knows this, the Member States know this, but the price of fossil fuel has steadily been rising. The cost of living, which is a major theme of the plenary this week, if I may say, but it has significantly increased for households across the European Union, and that's led us all to consider what can be done to mitigate the negative consequences for citizens. The idea of taxing those energy companies for whom the current conditions generate windfall profits has been floated as a possible measure to compensate for the burden placed on consumers.
Therefore, it's a very timely debate to have. It's a topic that, of course, is also on the minds of governments around Europe, reflected in the joint letter sent to the presidency in August by six member states, which called for an EU-wide framework to tax windfall profits of energy companies. I'm sure we all remember the situation in autumn 2022, when we had a very strong spike in energy prices after the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia and its ongoing aggression. Back then, the Council adopted an exceptional temporary emergency measure in the form of a minimum solidarity contribution on surplus profits of energy companies in 2022 and 2023. So we have done this already.
And the Irish presidency is fully aware that equally today, taxing windfall profits of large companies is among the tax measures that could be considered to respond to the concerns related to the rising cost of living that we are experiencing today. The presidency, of course, has every intention to allow for member states to exchange views and best practice on this, to deepen our understanding and to adjust the relevant policy.
As presidency, we do count on the Commission, Commissioner Jørgensen, to help us in this regard by monitoring closely the energy prices and especially the data on excess profits in the energy sector. It is within the Commission's remit to carefully assess whether the conditions are in place that would warrant an initiative similar to the one we took before in 2022, and I'm sure that's exactly what Commissioner Jørgensen is about to reassure us on. The Commission's Accelerate EU package of the 26th of April recognizes that member states are free to take action on such measures, and of course the Commission will respect the decisions of member states and help and provide best practice. The measures that member states have taken are already generally fully in line with the strategic priorities of the EU and indeed the principles of EU law, such as polluter pays, as well as the overarching aim to decarbonize and pursue the electrification of our economies. The presidency will keep the debate flowing on this, and of course we are ready to play our role.
I should say that the topic of windfall taxation will be discussed this week at ECOFIN under the Irish presidency, and indeed thank you very much for your attention.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, thank you Minister Byrne, Commissioner Jørgensen.
Dan Jørgensen
Honorable members, today's debate takes place against the backdrop of the ongoing conflict in the Middle East and price evolutions in the energy commodity markets. In response to these developments, the Commission presented the Accelerate EU communication in April this year. The communication provides a dynamic response to the challenges of high energy prices. It supports member states' efforts to protect consumers and industry from high price shocks. In July, we also published our proposal on future-proofing electricity bills.
With the proposal, we aim to help member states in tailoring their energy taxation systems so that they can stimulate electrification and move away from expensive imported fossil fuels. On windfall taxation specifically, the Commission is of the view that member states can take measures on taxation of windfall profits to ensure social fairness. Corporate taxation falls mainly in the realm of national competency. Some member states have come forward with domestic measures to tax windfall profits, others have prolonged existing domestic measures. The Commission will respect member states' decisions, we will assist their efforts, provide best practices on national measures, and assess their impacts on the single market.
As energy prices continue to rise, we must stand ready to deploy additional tools to protect consumers if needed. As President von der Leyen mentioned yesterday, our role is to give member states the tools and flexibility to respond. In this respect, we will prolong and possibly amend the temporary state aid framework. We will extend by one year the flexibility on methane to exporters. We will launch a strategic dialogue on European refineries and set up a new task force to bundle energy demand.
This will cater for the specific energy mix in member states. These actions combined with the measures set out in the REPowerEU provides us with a comprehensive toolbox to reduce energy bills and support citizens. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, Commissioner. My next speaker on behalf of the PPE Group is Mr. Markus Ferber.
Herr Vizepräsident, Herr Ratspräsident, Herr Kommissar, liebe Kolleginnen, liebe Kollegen, eine Übergewinnsteuer senkt keine einzige Energierechnung. Sie ändert nichts an hohen Energiepreisen, sie löst das Problem nicht, sondern es ist reine Symbolpolitik.
Das Geld landet zwar in Haushalten, aber in den öffentlichen Haushalten, nicht bei den Bürgerinnen und Bürgern. Wer Verschmutzer zur Kasse bitten will, das tun wir doch alles längst. Im Emissionshandel, in vielen Gesetzgebungen zwingen wir den Unternehmen Kosten zu Recht auf, um Verschmutzungen zu reduzieren. Und das, diese Investitionen, die brauchen wir. Denn hohe Preise sind ja auch ein Marktsignal.
Es fehlt Angebot. Die Gewinne finanzieren neue Speicherterminals und Netze und auch Wind- und Solarparks. Wer diese Gewinne wegbesteuert, sobald es knapp wird, verhindert genau diese Investitionen, die dringend notwendig sind, um die Knappheit zu überwinden. Und was ist überhaupt ein Übergewinn? Im Jahr 2022 galt als übermäßig, was 20 % über dem Durchschnitt der Vorjahre lag.
Markus Ferber
Das ist doch eine willkürliche Grenze. In Deutschland laufen Gerichtsverfahren deswegen gegen den Staat, weil er keine klare Definition für Übergewinn vorlegen konnte. Wer in schlechten Jahren Verluste schreibt, bekommt ja auch nichts zurück. Und wer gut gewirtschaftet hat, der wird bestraft. Und wer nicht weiß, welche Gewinne morgen als Übergewinne gelten könnten, der wird auch nicht investieren.
Wer die Energiepreise senken will, braucht mehr Angebot, besser ausgebaute Netze, niedrigere staatliche Abgaben auf Energie. Dazu gehören auch mehr Investitionen in erneuerbare Energieträger, die gibt es aber nur, wenn Gewinne nicht abgeschöpft werden. Wer Investitionen bestraft, bekommt keine billigere Energie, er bekommt weniger Energie. Deswegen ist eine Übergewinnsteuer keine Idee, die die EVP-Fraktion unterstützen kann. Vielen Dank.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, thank you very much. I don't see Mr. Chahim, so I give the floor to the next speaker, who is Madame Chardonne on behalf of the PfE group. We can wait. Please. Please, you have the floor.
Silvia Sardone
Thank you. Non avevamo dubbi, per la sinistra la soluzione è sempre una: nuove tasse. Ma dobbiamo dire ai cittadini europei la verità: l'unica vera tassa per famiglie, imprese, consumatori, agricoltori, siete voi.
Voi col Green Deal avete portato più tasse, più oneri per le imprese, più costi per i consumatori, bollette più costose. Voi con la direttiva sulle case green volete che i proprietari di casa spendano migliaia di euro per rinnovare le proprie abitazioni. Voi, sempre voi, criminalizzando gli agricoltori e gli allevatori li avete resi più poveri. Voi con assurde regole ambientali state facendo chiudere migliaia di aziende. Voi con la vostra ideologia state affossando l'Europa.
Quindi non solo non vogliamo nuove tasse, che per voi è una ricetta rodata, diciamo, ma non vogliamo nemmeno continuare a subire le vostre assurde politiche. Grazie.
Esteban González Pons
Grazie onorevole. My next speaker on behalf of the ECR group is Mr. Ozoba.
Thank you very much, I speak in Polish. Szanowni państwo, szanowny panie przewodniczący, akurat tak się składa, że hipokryzja to najlepsze słowo, jakie można określić europosłów, którzy wymyślili Zielony Ład i twierdzą, że dzięki temu świat będzie czystszy. No nie wiem, czy czystszy będzie, jeżeli samochody będą produkowane w Indiach czy Chinach. Jeżeli twierdzicie, że nowe europodatki, nowe w ogóle określanie jakichś nadmiarowych zysków... co to znaczy nadmiarowe zyski? Jeżeli przedsiębiorstwa w Europie będą miały zyski, to dobrze.
Ale wy uważacie, że to źle. I tak się składa, że produkcja jest masowo przenoszona poza Europę i wy uważacie, że to jest dobrze, bo tutaj nie widzicie tych wszystkich emisji.
No ale świat jest jeden. I to nie jest tak, że jeżeli produkcję zabierzecie z Europy, no to będzie bardziej ekologicznie, jeżeli ona będzie w Afryce. To chyba już za dużo mamy przykładów nieprawidłowości na świecie, które pokazują, że żadnych standardów nie ma. To wasze sumienie wam tutaj każe to wypychać, bo wy nie widzicie, no to twierdzicie, że czegoś takiego nie ma. Więc po prostu zostawcie w świętym spokoju przemysł i po raz kolejny temat podatków, naprawdę to już jest coś, co już nie powinno być w tej izbie.
Dziękuję.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, Monsieur Canfin, on behalf of the Renew Group.
Pascal Canfin
Merci Monsieur le Président, merci Monsieur le Commissaire. Moi je suis frappé que dans ce débat il y a une très grande polarisation sur le sujet. Quand on regarde les six États membres qui ont fait en sorte qu'il y ait ce débat maintenant au Conseil, vous avez l'Italie qui n'est pas spécialement un gouvernement gauchiste, vous avez l'Allemagne dans lequel il y a justement du centre-droit et du centre-gauche, vous avez le Portugal qui n'est pas un gouvernement gauchiste non plus. Donc il y a différents pays, y compris l'Espagne socialiste. Donc ça veut dire qu'au Conseil, il y a des pays qui sont gouvernés par des forces politiques très différentes qui pensent que c'est une bonne idée.
Donc ce débat doit avoir lieu. Ça ne fait pas des entreprises concernées des salauds. Ça ne fait pas des profits de ces entreprises concernées des profiteurs de guerre. Ça fait simplement de ces entreprises concernées des acteurs économiques qui sont assis sur une rente qui fait qu'ils gagnent des dizaines de milliards d'euros sans faire un seul investissement de plus, sans avoir fait une seule chose pour justifier ces dizaines de milliards de profits. Ce débat, il ne doit pas être moral, il doit être économique.
Esteban González Pons
Il est justifié, il doit avoir lieu aussi dans cette instance.
Sara Matthieu
Colleagues, this summer Belgium had its biggest wildfire ever, and farmers drove tractors full of water to the firefighters, and volunteers brought them food and water. And this same summer, the five biggest oil companies made $6,000 in profit every second. We need to tax them. And we need to use that money to protect people against extreme weather. And we've done it before.
When Russia invaded Ukraine, energy prices went through the roof and oil giants were making huge profits, just like now.
Sara Matthieu
So Europe made them pay. Guess what, we can do that again. And we can use it so our care homes and our hospitals actually stay cool, so our kids' schools have shade. That's the Europe where protection against the next heatwave is paid by the companies that actually profit from it. So by the time I finish this six-second speech, those five companies will have made another $360,000.
So let's tax it and let's use it to keep our people alive. Thank you very much.
Martin Schirdewan
Vielen Dank, Herr Präsident, die Angst deutscher Regierungsvertreter, sich mit den Energiekonzernen anzulegen, ist wirklich unfassbar. In Deutschland lagen im September die Übergewinne nach der aus dem Verkauf von Diesel und Benzin bei 46 Millionen Euro täglich, Geld, das die Konzerne auf dem Rücken der arbeitenden Bevölkerung und der Familien machen. Und der deutsche Finanzminister Klingbeil hat jetzt die Forderung nach einer Übergewinnsteuer bei den Linken abgeschrieben, das finde ich gut, die Krisenprofiteure zur Kasse zu bitten, damit das Leben für die Menschen bezahlbar wird. Ich finde das absolut richtig.
Also ran an die Energiemultis und runter mit den Energiepreisen, ran an die großen Rüstungskonzerne, die dank Aufrüstung und Krieg in Geld schwimmen. 2022 während der letzten großen Energiekrise hat Deutschland 2,5 Milliarden Euro von den Extraprofiten der Konzerne einkassiert. Noch jetzt bleiben Kanzler Merz und sein Finanzminister tatenlos und lassen die Leute gnadenlos im Stich. Dabei haben wir heute auch gehört, sind die rechtlichen Vorausgebungen für die Besteuerung der Krisengewinne der großen Konzerne schon längst gegeben. Aber Lars Klingbeil kann sich gegenüber Merz und den Marktfetischisten von der Union natürlich nicht durchsetzen.
Die führen lieber einen sogenannten Tankrabatt ein, der den Leuten nicht wirklich hilft und die Extragewinne der Konzerne unangetastet lässt. Wieder scheitert die große Koalition an sich selbst. Wieder liefert sie nicht. Schluss mit diesem Rumgestümper, Schluss mit dieser organisierten Verantwortungslosigkeit. Wir brauchen eine Übergewinnsteuer jetzt.
Die Energiepreise müssen jetzt runter. Vielen Dank.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, dear colleague. We jump now into the second part of the debate and my first speaker is el signore Martusciello.
Fulvio Martusciello
Voi vi immaginate il piacere che ha provato la sinistra nel comporre il titolo di questo dibattito. C'erano le parole, le espressioni che ama: tasse alle imprese.
Ebbene, noi invece amiamo qualcos'altro. Cerchiamo di aiutare le imprese a fare il loro lavoro, a produrre occupazione, a cercare di evitare tutte le storture che nel corso della scorsa legislatura questo Parlamento ha imposto. Non ha senso imporre nuove tasse alle imprese perché sottrarremmo loro liquidità. Non ha senso continuare ad immaginare un ETS come è stato costruito in questo Parlamento. I danni che sta facendo questo tipo di tassazione sono inenarrabili nei confronti delle imprese.
E sta costringendo molte di queste aziende a doversi delocalizzare. C'è una deindustrializzazione diffusa, una delocalizzazione purtroppo delle emissioni e del lavoro fuori dall'Unione Europea.
E allora dobbiamo essere consapevoli che l'ETS sta danneggiando il tessuto produttivo europeo e dobbiamo essere intenzionati a modificarlo, dobbiamo essere intenzionati a cambiarne gli standard. Questa è la vera battaglia, questo è il dibattito che vorremmo che affrontasse seriamente anziché immaginare nuove tasse da imporre a coloro che non fanno altro che produrre posti di lavoro.
Bruno Gonçalves
Caro presidente, colegas, senhor comissário, sejamos claros: a guerra no Médio Oriente é obra de Trump e Netanyahu, mas quem paga é o cidadão comum. E enquanto famílias e pequenas empresas fazem um esforço extra para atestar o depósito, às empresas petrolíferas saiu o euromilhões. As oito maiores empresas do setor tiveram lucros extraordinários de mais de sete mil milhões apenas no primeiro semestre deste ano. A portuguesa Galp só na primeira metade deste ano já lucrou quase o dobro do valor total de 2021. É nosso dever a nível europeu chamar estas empresas a contribuir para apoiar as pessoas, e isso significa tributar de forma pesada lucros extraordinários.
Senhor comissário, não podem ser sempre os mesmos a pagar a fatura. E lamento aqui os jogos do Partido Social Democrata, porque enquanto em casa o governo anuncia uma taxa de solidariedade, aqui os seus deputados votam e posicionam-se contra. Como defensor de uma economia de mercado, valorizo o mérito, senhor comissário. Só não há mérito quando as receitas sobem em flecha por causa de guerras.
Bruno Gonçalves
Se queremos um mundo de paz, não podemos normalizar dividendos de guerra.
Un impôt sur les bénéfices exceptionnels des pollueurs, le mot est séduisant, la mesure est illusoire. Taxer des entreprises capables de délocaliser leurs capitaux, leurs sièges et leurs emplois en quelques mois, ce n'est pas faire payer les pollueurs, c'est faire fuir les contribuables. Et au bout du compte, la facture retombe toujours sur les mêmes, les ménages, les retraités et nos entreprises. Oui, en temps de crise, chacun doit prendre sa part de l'effort collectif. Et les grands groupes de l'énergie ne font pas exception.
Mathilde Androuët
Moralement, cela va de soi. Mais ne nous trompons pas de combat, ce n'est pas avec un impôt de plus que nos concitoyens retrouveront du pouvoir d'achat. La vraie solution, nous la connaissons depuis longtemps : baisser les taxes qui pèsent sur l'énergie, renégocier les traités et ce marché européen absurde qui indexe le prix de notre électricité sur celui du gaz, rendre aux États la liberté de baisser leurs taxes sans demander la permission de Bruxelles. Moins d'impôts, plus de liberté, plus de souveraineté. Voilà comment on protège à la fois la santé des Français, des Européens et leur portefeuille.
Esteban González Pons
Merci Madame.
My next speaker is Mr. Ciriani, el señor Ciriani.
Alessandro Ciriani
Grazie, Presidente. Mentre famiglie e imprese cercano di resistere al caro energia, da quest'aula arriva sempre la stessa risposta : una nuova tassa. Ma se chiediamo alle compagnie di assumersi una responsabilità, dobbiamo assumerci anche la nostra. Non possiamo chiedere di contenere i prezzi mentre continuiamo a imporre obblighi che rendono più costoso produrre in Europa. Non possiamo evocare sacrifici e lasciare intatte le scelte che aggravano le difficoltà di chi lavora.
Dobbiamo rivedere radicalmente l'ETS e gli obblighi insostenibili del Green Deal, prima che l'ostinazione nel difenderli mandi sul lastrico l'economia europea. Nessun obiettivo politico giustifica l'indifferenza davanti a imprese che chiudono e posti di lavoro che si perdono. Per abbassare le bollette dobbiamo riconquistare autonomia energetica, produrre di più e dipendere meno dall'estero. E per questo servono tutte le fonti, dalle rinnovabili al nucleare fino alle fossili. Basta demonizzarle per ideologia e rinunciare agli strumenti che possono garantire energia accessibile.
E soprattutto non accettiamo lezioni sull'ambiente da chi considera una fabbrica chiusa un successo della transizione. Se produzione ed emissioni si trasferiscono altrove, l'Europa perde lavoro e non salviamo neanche il pianeta. Grazie.
Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I prefer the world of disruption to the peaceful world, and this disruption gives us plenty of opportunities. This is a quote from the CEO of TotalEnergies in yesterday's newspaper, and I think it's very difficult to find one single European citizen who could agree with this cynical philosophy. These so-called opportunities and consequently the super profits are not the result of some brilliant entrepreneurship. It's pure luck to them.
And I'm not against pure luck myself, but the super profits are at the expense of people, businesses, and public finances. So yes, let's use these super profits made by the oil giants to invest it in compensation for poor people and to finally become energy independent in Europe. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, dear colleague. My next speaker is Madame Sieling.
Lena Schilling
Thank you. Liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, ich habe mich heute entschlossen, nicht über Prozentpunkte und Milliardengewinne zu reden, sondern über die Realität, die dahintersteht.
Stellen Sie sich eine ältere Dame vor, nennen wir sie Renate. Sie sitzt im Winter in ihrer Wohnung, ihre Hände sind kalt. Sie könnte die Heizung aufdrehen, aber sie hat Angst vor der Rechnung. Während ihre Heizung kalt bleibt, verkünden fossile Konzerne auf ihren Aktionärsversammlungen Milliardengewinne. Das ist eine politische Entscheidung, denn diese Krise hat Gewinner und Verlierer.
Gewinnen tun die fossilen Konzerne, verlieren tun wir alle. Wir bezahlen die höheren Rechnungen, wir leiden unter der Klimakrise und wir sind abhängig. Aber wir könnten das richten, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, mit einer Übergewinnsteuer, mit erneuerbaren Energien und mit Mut. Damit die Energierechnung von Renate billiger wird. Also entscheiden wir uns: Stehen wir auf der Seite von Renate, stehen wir auf der Seite von denen, die gerade verlieren, oder von denen, die unsere Zukunft zerstören und damit Gewinne machen?
Jussi Saramo
Thank you, Chair. More and more people no longer have enough money to cover the cost of their everyday life.
Once again, also ordinary Europeans are paying the bill for the United States' actions. Our dependence on fossil fuels, our dependence on US, Russia, and the Middle East has driven up the cost of transportation, food, and heating homes. Oil companies are taking advantage of this situation, reaping billions in extra profits. And normal hardworking people are paying the price. First through higher energy bills and then as victims of climate crisis, while the wealthiest profit from the situation.
The Commission must immediately present a proposal for an EU-wide tax on unfair windfall profits. Revenue from this tax must be used to help people in acute need and to speed up the green transition so that we can be independent and end poverty. Thank you.
Děkuji, pane předsedající, kolegyně a kolegové. Je třeba urychleně zdanit mimořádné zisky nadnárodních korporací, a nejen těch energetických a ropných, a hlavně tak, aby to zase neobešly jako minule.
Kateřina Konečná
Nicméně proč tady tu debatu vůbec vedeme? Současná energetická krize je vyvolávána geopolitickými konflikty, které vedou naši takzvaní spojenci a současná politika Evropské unie ji dále prohlubuje. Je to krize, kterou si EU způsobila sama. Sama se odstřihla od levných energií, sama si naordinovala Green Deal, emisní povolenky a sama EU poslušně panáčkuje před Spojenými státy. Pouze tak sklízíme plody politiky předsedkyně von der Leyen a její pravé ruky Kalas.
Výnos těchto daní musí jít k lidem a snížit účty domácnostem. Už je načase zastavit šmelení s elektřinou na lipské burze a říct stačilo emisním povolenkám pro domácnosti. Není možné podporovat z těchto peněz pouze takzvané obnovitelné nebo možná spíš občasné zdroje energie. Léta vám tady říkám, že pro země jako Česká republika to totiž nejsou řešení. Je naopak nutné podpořit výstavbu konvenčních zdrojů, které udrží Evropu v zimě v teple za rozumné peníze, jako jsou například jaderné elektrárny.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, dear colleague. Madame Nerudová, you have the floor.
Dear colleagues, while families across Europe will soon have to choose between heating and eating or simply putting on an extra sweater, big fossil fuel companies are making extra profit. Profits made not through innovation, but through crisis.
And who pays? Ordinary people. They pay through higher energy bills, polluted air, floods, fires and heatwaves. This is not just unfair, it is unsustainable. I therefore call for a tax on the extraordinary profits of polluters done at European level.
Without it, we risk fragmentation of the single market and profit shifting. We need to raise revenue that can be used to lower the bills for our households. And we need it now. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Mr. Glucksmann, you have the floor.
Raphaël Glucksmann
Merci, chers collègues. Notre addiction au gaz et au pétrole est un désastre climatique, sanitaire, social, géopolitique. Ce désastre, les citoyens en souffrent, mais les multinationales des fossiles en vivent. Il y a ceux qui meurent pendant les canicules, ceux qui morflent chaque fois qu'ils font le plein, et il y a ceux qui s'enrichissent. TotalEnergies a gagné 11 milliards d'euros au premier semestre 2026, simplement grâce à la guerre en Iran.
C'est la définition même des superprofits. Six gouvernements ont demandé à taxer ces superprofits : l'Allemagne, l'Italie, l'Espagne, le Portugal, la Pologne, l'Autriche. Où est la France ? La France n'a pas signé et c'est une honte. Chez nous, dans notre gouvernement, un ministre déclare qu'il ne veut pas embêter Total.
Eh bien nous, nous avons envie d'aider ceux qui ne peuvent plus se chauffer, ceux qui n'arrivent plus à boucler leurs fins de mois. Et si pour ça il faut embêter Total, eh bien nous embêterons Total. Nous sommes les élus du peuple, pas des actionnaires de TotalEnergies, et nous n'avons peur d'embêter personne quand il s'agit de défendre l'intérêt général.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Mr. Axinia, you have the floor.
Suprataxarea companiilor europene este apoteoza delirului progresismului verde. Mâine, poimâine, vor vrea taxe și pe respirația umană pentru că reduce oxigenul din atmosferă. Reality check : economia europeană este aproape de colaps, avem inflație galopantă, calitatea vieții europenilor a scăzut față de generația precedentă. Și ce propun verzii și stângiștii ? Taxe, taxe și iar taxe.
Este iluzia banilor gratis care sunt de fapt banii celor care inovează și produc.
Adrian-George Axinia
Se dorește uciderea cu orice preț a tot ce a mai rămas din industria UE. Este fix cum spunea Reagan: dacă se mișcă, taxează, dacă continuă să se miște, reglementează, iar dacă nu se mai mișcă, subvenționează. Acesta este drumul spre iadul economiei europene lăsate în urmă în competiția globală cu America și China. Eu aș vrea să ne întâlnim măcar o dată în acest forum și să discutăm cum sprijină UE statele membre să scadă taxarea companiilor. Cum facem să nu mai fim în situația nebunească de acum cu prețul gazelor de șapte ori mai mare în Uniunea Europeană decât SUA sau cu prețul combustibililor dublu.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you.
Thank you, dear colleague. Mr. Begustat, you have the floor.
Yvan Verougstraete
Chers collègues, la crise du prix du carburant, ce n'est pas une crise de l'énergie, c'est une nouvelle crise de l'énergie fossile. C'est avant tout la responsabilité des conservateurs qui nous empêchent de sortir de notre dépendance. Cette crise le montre une fois de plus : les climatosceptiques sont les fossoyeurs du pouvoir d'achat. Mais c'est aussi une crise du marché. Le droit européen de la concurrence et la lutte contre les abus de position dominante sont des fondements de notre Union.
Speaker 201
Quand le marché fonctionne, laissons-le fonctionner. Mais quand la crise est l'occasion pour ceux qui bénéficient d'une rente de position de s'enrichir sans rien faire au détriment des citoyens et des entreprises, il faut agir.
Nous devons capter une partie de cette rente de crise. Ce n'est pas une question idéologique, c'est une question de fonctionnement de marché. L'Allemagne, l'Espagne, l'Italie, la Pologne, le Portugal et l'Autriche nous demandent d'avancer. Alors avançons, et faisons-le au niveau européen. Merci.
Rasmus Andresen
Vielen Dank. Fast 26 Milliarden Euro, so viele Profite haben die großen fossilen Energiekonzerne in den letzten drei Monaten gemacht. Das ist eine extrem hohe Summe. Und die Profite der Energiekonzerne, ja, das sind die hohen Rechnungen für unsere Bürgerinnen an den Tankstellen, in den Wohnzimmern, wenn sie den Blick in die letzte Energiekostenabrechnung werfen. Und ich finde es wirklich unfassbar, dass wir es bisher nicht geschafft haben, unsere Bürgerinnen gegen diese Profitgier der großen Konzerne zu schützen.
Ich finde es unfassbar, dass die EU-Kommission, obwohl es inzwischen eine Initiative von sechs Mitgliedstaaten gibt, nach wie vor nicht handelt. Und ich will hier einmal ganz deutlich sagen: Verstecken Sie sich nicht hinter technokratischen Argumenten. Es gibt Modelle, wie wir europaweit die großen Profite besteuern können. Es gibt Modelle, wie wir feststellen, was ein Übergewinn ist.
Wir haben es vor einigen Jahren schon gemacht. Woran scheitert es? An dem politischen Willen von zu vielen Abgeordneten in der EVP-Fraktion, die auch gestern unseren Antrag abgelehnt haben, und von zu vielen Mitgliedstaaten und die EU-Kommissaren. Handeln Sie jetzt.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Madame Boylan, you have the floor.
Thank you, Chair. As a direct result of President Trump's idiotic and illegal war in Iran, anxiety is growing in many homes as we head into the winter. Will it be another year of choosing between heating and eating? Households are at their limit, yet fossil fuel companies are raking it in, billions of windfall profits cashing in on the crisis. And there is a way to shift the balance back.
Tax these super profits. We have done it before as the EU. But if the EU won't act, member states can, and we have just had that confirmed once again. For months, we have been calling for the Irish government to act, introduce a windfall tax on fossil fuel super profits. We were told we had to wait for the EU to act.
Speaker 206
Well, Minister Byrne, you've heard it loud and clear here today. There's no hiding behind the EU. The ball has and always will be in the government's court. Tax the mega-polluters and put the profits back into people's pockets.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, dear colleague.
Señor López Istúriz, tiene la palabra.
Pues yo estoy encantado con este debate. Oye, y animo a los Verdes que cuantos más debates de estos presenten, mejor, porque así pues se está hundiendo toda la izquierda, los gobiernos de izquierda en toda Europa. Dejen ya. ¿No tienen una solución un poquito más imaginativa que subir los impuestos? ¿Tienen alguna otra solución para acabar con los especuladores?
Speaker 208
Por supuesto, para controlar todo esto, claro, estamos todos de acuerdo, y los que abusan del mercado. Pero es que no pueden proponer otra cosa que no sea subir impuestos. Ustedes pisan la calle. Ustedes están viendo las colas en las gasolineras por buscar precios mejores, los agricultores y los pescadores que están en estos momentos sufriendo todo este tipo de políticas de una antigua ideología absolutamente obsoleta en esta Unión Europea. Adáptense.
Adáptense a la nueva realidad. Ni siquiera son capaces de formular una propuesta coherente. ¿Cómo pretenden que lo entiendan los ciudadanos? Los europeos no necesitan más eslóganes engañosos, necesitan energía asequible, seguridad de suministro y una industria que no huya de Europa. A ver si pueden ayudar un poco a eso.
Menos impuestos ideológicos y más sentido común. Muchas gracias.
Esteban González Pons
Gracias, señor López Istúriz.
Señor González Casares, tiene su señoría la palabra.
Nicolás González Casares
La actual crisis fósil de precios no ha caído del cielo. Miren, esta es la secuencia: Trump y Netanyahu provocan una guerra ilegal en Irán que iba a durar dos semanas y ya vamos para ocho meses. La extrema derecha y la derecha apoyan esta guerra y lo que tenemos es precios elevados de gasolina, diésel y electricidad. Se produce al mismo tiempo un atraco a los bolsillos europeos que ya asciende a cien mil millones de euros. Y ahora las familias y las empresas pagan y unas pocas compañías se forran.
Y claro, la ultraderecha y la derecha no quieren hablar de esto porque saben que son culpables de esta situación y tampoco quieren hablar de las soluciones ni a medio y largo plazo, que es energía limpia, autóctona y soberana, ni a corto, poner impuestos a los disparatados beneficios extraordinarios de la industria fósil. Siempre igual. Cada vez que hay que aliviar la carga de los ciudadanos, bien sea en España, pues la derecha apoya a los fondos buitres y los desahucios de señoras mayores. Miren, la competitividad y la soberanía europea van en sentido contrario al de Donald Trump. A ver si se enteran.
Esteban González Pons
Muchas gracias, señoría González Casares. My next speaker is Mr. Madison. You have the floor.
Jaak Madison
Thanks so much, dear colleagues, commissioner and from the Council. First of all, I think like every idea what is proposed by the Greens or socialists are ridiculous. And I think two years ago the voters showed very clearly what they think about you because the Greens were the biggest losers here in the European Parliament. But after all, if there is a bigger and bigger problems in the economy because of the overregulation, taxation and so on, the only solution what Greens can propose is: we need a new tax, we need a new enemy. I was checking during the debate the backgrounds of the most speakers.
They have never ever been working in a private sector. They have produced anything in the life. The main speaker, the French MEP from the Greens who was the first speaker, she started her career when she was 18 as a young activist in Greens. Perfect career.
But if you really care about the average people in European countries and you talk about the elderly people, I just have to remind you that taxpayers, who are actually company owners producing works, you are earning, all of us are earning almost 15,000 euros per month, together with all the daily allowance and so on. If you really care about those average people, actually you are super rich and coming here, never ever been working in the private sector, done anything useful in the life, and coming say, "No, but the company owners, they are bad, we have to punish them." Come on, go to work. Thanks a lot.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, Mr. Madison. Vice-President Hojsík, you have the floor. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Let's continue with the debate. Vice-President, you have the floor.
Martin Hojsík
Ďakujem. Na Slovensku máme veľmi konkrétny príklad znečisťovateľa s nadmernými ziskami, ktorý nevracia, čo dostáva. Na Slovensku máme rafinériu Slovnaft, ktorá aj vďaka európskej výnimke stále môže spracovávať ruskú ropu. A máme zákony, ktoré hovoria, že sa o nadmerné zisky musí podeliť so štátom. No lenže neplatí nič.
A slovenská vláda mlčí a nič s tým nerobí. Kým od ľudí vie Robert Fico vybrať každé euro, pri stovkách miliónov z jednej z najväčších a najziskovejších firiem na Slovensku zrazu roky čaká. Takto ochrana ľudí pred dôsledkami energetickej krízy naozaj vyzerať nemôže.
Ak na energetickej kríze niekto mimoriadne zarobí, ľudia z toho musia mať svoj podiel. A úlohou vlády je túto daň vybrať a nie sa prizerať, ako sa jej veľká firma účtovnými trikmi vyhýba. Áno, pri nadmerných ziskoch potrebujeme konať ako Európa, ale konať musia v prvom rade členské štáty. Ďakujem.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, Vice-President. Madame Kuhnke, you have the floor.
Alice Kuhnke
Tack, herr talman. Den rikaste promillen i Sverige släpper ut i genomsnitt 198 ton koldioxid per år. För en vanlig svensk så skulle det ta 30 år att komma upp i samma nivå. Det är orimligt. Det är orimligt och det är orättvist att några få miljardärer och megaföretag står för enorma utsläpp samtidigt som du betalar kostnaden för den ökade klimatkrisen i form av dyrare elräkningar, förorenad luft och vatten som det inte går att bada i.
Det är hög tid att de som släpper ut mest, de ska också ta störst ansvar. På så sätt så kan vi finansiera en fungerande järnväg, bättre vård och billigare kollektivtrafik och stöd till de mest utsatta. Det är dags att räkningen skickas till de som står för de stora utsläppen. Tack.
Pernando Barrena Arza
Dear President, colleagues, Europe is facing a climate crisis, an energy crisis and a social crisis, and we cannot address one while ignoring the others. That's why we need a fair and effective tax on the superprofits of major polluters. When energy prices rise, families should not be forced to choose between heating their homes and paying their bills while fossil fuel companies make extraordinary profits. This Parliament has already recognized that those benefiting from windfall profits should contribute to addressing the consequences of the energy crisis. The revenues from such a tax should go where they are most needed: protecting vulnerable households, tackling energy poverty, improving energy efficiency and investing in affordable renewable energy.
That is exactly what a socially just Green Deal should look like. So let us make the principle clear: those who have profited most from pollution should contribute most to ending our dependence on it, and no European should be left behind in the transition. Thank you so much.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, Mr Barrena.
My next speaker is Madame Gasiuk-Pihowicz.
Szanowni Państwo, ja mam dla Państwa dobrą wiadomość, ciekawą wiadomość z Polski. Polska właśnie zrobiła to, o czym dzisiaj rozmawiamy. Koncerny paliwowe zarobiły na kryzysie w zatoce krocie, więc co zrobiliśmy? Opodatkowaliśmy ich nadzwyczajne zyski do 60%. I Polacy tankują taniej, z dnia na dzień o ponad złotówkę na każdym litrze.
Kamila Gasiuk-Pihowicz
Czy było łatwo? Oczywiście, że nie. Zakochana w wielkich koncernach prawica rzucała nam kłody pod nogi. Prezydent wetował, blokował, straszył, odwlekał, a ceny na stacjach rosły. Ale my wiemy po czyjej stronie stoimy.
My stoimy po stronie Polaków, nie miliarderów, nie korporacji, ale Polaków. Zabraliśmy koncernom, daliśmy Polakom: kierowcom ciężarówek, rolnikom, rodzinom. I niech Europa bierze przykład z Polski.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Madame Regner, you have the floor.
Danke schön, Herr Vizepräsident. Was sind Übergewinne?
Das sind Profite ohne Leistung. Die sind möglich gemacht durch Kriege, durch Krisen. Und deshalb schnalzen unsere Stromrechnungen, unsere Gasrechnungen, unsere Energierechnungen in die Höh'. Die fossilen Konzerne befeuern die Klimakrise und verdienen auch noch daran, wenn Europa brennt. Und die Löscharbeiten, die bezahlen wir alle.
Evelyn Regner
Familien müssen zwischen Heizen und Essen entscheiden, während Energiekonzerne Gewinne einstreifen, gewaltige Gewinne. Sehr geehrte Vertreter der EVP, der Rechten in diesem Hause, wollen Sie das? Dass nicht durch Innovation, nicht durch Investitionen, nicht durch Leistung, sondern durch Krisen diese riesengroßen Gewinne erzielt werden? Und deshalb brauchen wir eine dauerhafte Übergewinnsteuer, weil wir das alles nicht wollen. Wenn, und deshalb wende ich mich jetzt an Sie, Herr Jørgensen, und natürlich auch an den Rat, Mister Byrne.
Wenn wir in der Europäischen Union gemeinsam handeln, dann sind wir immer stärker. Wenn das einige wenige Mitgliedstaaten machen, dann ist das gut, dann ist das super, aber das ist viel zu wenig. Und deshalb sollten wir gemeinsam handeln, deshalb sollte die Kommission hier ganz besonders engagiert sein, besonders phantasievoll. Wir haben die Argumente gehört der Gegenseite, die sind hanebüchen. Wir müssen handeln, wir brauchen eine Übergewinnsteuer.
Damien Carême
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Mr. Kanya, you have the floor. Dit is mijn eerste toespraak in dit parlement. Ik zal hier staan in solidariteit. Ik zal me uitspreken voor mensen, voor gezondheid en tegen oneerlijke verdeling van welvaart en lasten.
De wereld staat in brand. Ons water en onze lucht zijn vies en ongezond. En de grote vervuilers vullen hun zakken met geld, veel geld. Geld dat verdiend wordt dankzij de arbeid van mensen. Zij krijgen daar een torenhoge energierekening en een ongezonde leefomgeving voor terug.
Damien Carême
De acht grootste Europese oliebedrijven maakten tijdens de eerste maanden van de illegale oorlog tussen de Verenigde Staten en Iran door de hoge energieprijzen zo'n 7,5 miljard euro aan extra winst bovenop de grote winst die ze al maakten. En de energierekening voor de mensen in Nederland, in Europa, die stijgt nu al met zo'n 500 euro per jaar. En de winter moet nog beginnen. De fossiele industrie profiteert en moet dus bijdragen. Dank u wel.
Per Clausen
Millioner af almindelige mennesker over hele Europa frygter for fremtiden. Frygter for ikke at have råd til at varme deres hus denne vinter eller ikke at have råd til medicin og mad til dem og deres børn. Vi har været igennem en sommer, der var så varm, at flere mennesker end nogensinde før døde af varmen i Europa. Samtidig høster de store energiselskaber profitter som aldrig før. Profitter på at gøre situationen værre.
Speaker 226
Det må stoppe. Og en af de ting, vi kan gøre, er en ekstra profit, en ekstra skat på deres unormale profitter. Ligesom vi gjorde så sent som i 2022. En skat, der kan bruges på klimatiltag og på at forbedre situationen, på at gøre mad og energi billigere, ikke for store virksomheder, men for helt almindelige mennesker. Det er det mindste, vi kan gøre.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Mr. Kanev, you have the floor.
Radan Kanev
Благодаря, господин председател, господин комисар. Уважаеми колеги, темата за данък свръхпечалба е много деликатна.
Трябва много да се внимава с такива идеи, защото предприемачите инвестират, поемат риск, развиват бизнес модели и в крайна сметка искат да печелят. И да, искат да печелят много, да реинвестират. Така работи бизнесът, така се създава богатството. Рискуваме с този дебат, с популизма в него, да изпаднем в положението на българското правителство, което предлага данък свръхпечалба за малки фирми с пет магазина, например, но не предлага данък свръхпечалба за огромна петролна рафинерия. И когато говорим за горивата, трябва да признаем, че това е друг случай.
Това е различен казус, защото в днешния свят горивата не са стока, а геополитическо оръжие. Но и тук трябва да мислим за мерки за свиване на печалбата и намаляване на цената, преди да мислим за увеличаване на данъка, защото свиването на цената има антиинфлационен ефект, докато увеличаването на данъка лесно увеличава инфлацията. Благодаря Ви.
Speaker 228
Colleghi, mentre milioni di famiglie faticano a pagare le bollette, a fare il pieno di benzina, i colossi dell'energia continuano ad accumulare miliardi di extraprofitti immorali. E questa, guardate, non è crescita, questa è una vera e propria ingiustizia sociale ed è per questo che serve un'azione coraggiosa da parte dell'Europa. Ma la responsabilità è anche degli Stati nazionali, perché la Commissione europea è stata chiara e ha detto praticamente che i governi possono agire ora. Eppure in Italia il governo di Giorgia Meloni non ha fatto nulla. Giorgia Meloni ha preferito lasciare intatto il tesoretto delle multinazionali per non disturbare le grandi lobby, mentre il prezzo del gasolio continua ad aumentare.
E proprio ieri qui la maggioranza del governo Meloni, assieme a tutte le destre, ha bocciato una proposta dei Socialisti e Democratici per tassare gli extraprofitti. E questa è la dimostrazione che la destra non è mai sociale, la destra sta sempre con i poteri forti. Infatti in Italia in questi anni il governo Meloni è stata forte con i deboli, purtroppo debolissima con i forti. Allora noi chiediamo che ogni euro degli extraprofitti, recuperato dagli extraprofitti, venga investito per aiutare famiglie e imprese. Ma non domani, questo bisogna farlo subito.
Tilly Metz
Pendant des années, nous n'avons pas pris suffisamment au sérieux les politiques environnementales.
Aujourd'hui, nous subissons les conséquences. La pollution environnementale, le changement climatique nuisent à notre santé d'une manière que nous ne pouvons plus l'ignorer. Ils augmentent les risques de maladies et y mettent des vies en danger. Notre dépendance aux énergies fossiles a également comme conséquence une hausse de factures d'énergie, une augmentation du coût de la vie et une précarité énergétique. Pourtant, les ultra-riches continuent à polluer alors que nous tous nous payons le prix.
C'est tout simplement inacceptable. Taxer les surprofits n'est pas seulement une nécessité environnementale, c'est une question de justice sociale. Et avec cet argent, nous pourrions réduire les factures d'énergie, investir dans des énergies propres et renouvelables et protéger la santé de nos citoyens. Merci.
Isabel Serra Sánchez
Gracias presidente. Señor comisario, ¿usted ha visto las movilizaciones por la vivienda en mi país? ¿Ha visto las acampadas, las movilizaciones masivas?
¿Ha visto los jóvenes franceses estudiantes movilizarse? Yo creo que ustedes pensaban que la gente trabajadora iba a tragar, tragar y tragar, y si no con unos cuantos palos de la policía iba a servir, a pesar de que ustedes gobiernen cada vez más en contra de sus intereses. Que iban a aceptar que unas energéticas se aprovechen de las guerras ilegales que ustedes apoyan para subir la factura de la luz, subir el precio de la gasolina, subir el coste de la vida con unos beneficios extraordinarios. Que iban a aceptar que unos pocos fondos buitre acaparen vivienda vacía, vivienda cada vez más cara para que solo les quede vivir debajo de un puente. O que iban a aceptar, por ejemplo, que se privaticen las pensiones, que es lo que propone Vox en mi país, que es otra vez que hagan negocio unos buitres o que le roben el tiempo para estar con sus familias a cambio de unos salarios que son una miseria y que no dan para el coste de la vida, no van, no dan para pagar el coste de la vida.
Y yo creo que no, que los pueblos, aunque tarden un poco más, al final despiertan. Y los pueblos de Europa están despertando y no van a aguantar, no van a tolerar que ustedes sigan gobernando en contra de sus intereses y a favor de unos buitres. Muchas gracias.
Matthias Ecke
Danke, Herr Präsident, Herr Kommissar, Herr Minister. An jeder Tankstelle in Europa sieht man gerade, wer diese Krise zahlt und wer daran verdient.
Familien müssen jeden Euro umdrehen, Handwerksbetriebe können ihre Rechnungen nicht mehr zahlen. Und liebe Kollegen von der Linken, wenn Sie dann sagen, ja, der Tankrabatt in Deutschland, der bringt ja gar nichts, ich glaube, dann haben Sie wirklich nicht im Blick, wie knapp es bei einigen in der Kasse ist. Aber wer verdient denn daran? An diesem Krieg? Wer verdient denn an der Knappheit von Öl?
Es sind die Ölkonzerne. Ja, das Angebot ist verknappt, aber die Preis-, die Preisanstiege, die gehen doch weit darüber hinaus. Das hat doch damit nichts mehr zu tun, das ist viel, viel höher gestiegen. Es sind da Übergewinne entstanden und wir kennen das Phänomen. Wir kennen es von 2022, 23, damals hat Europa einen Solidaritätsbeitrag geleistet.
Matthias Ecke
Das haben wir alle gemeinsam gemacht und das hat auch geholfen und das hat geholfen, um auch die Menschen zu entlasten. Und wenn die Kollegen von der EVP hier sagen, ja, aber das senkt ja keine einzige Energierechnung. Natürlich tut es das. Wenn man das zugunsten der Menschen umverteilt, dann können diese Mehreinnahmen eben bei den Menschen ankommen. Und deswegen brauchen wir eine gemeinsame Lösung, Herr Kommissar.
Ich erwarte auch von der Kommission, dass Sie da jetzt endlich einen Vorschlag macht. Wir haben die Frage von sechs nationalen Finanzministern auf dem Tisch und wir brauchen eine gemeinsame Lösung wie 23. Das können wir wieder, wir können den Menschen helfen. Vielen Dank.
La vostra Europa sta scaricando la crisi del petrolio sulla pelle delle persone.
Cristina Guarda
In Italia 5,3 milioni di cittadini vivono in povertà energetica. Intanto l'azienda Eni potrebbe fare addirittura 4 miliardi e mezzo di profitti, extra profitti. Mentre le persone comuni dovranno presto scegliere tra scaldarsi e mangiare, Eni guadagna miliardi grazie alla crisi energetica. Sono extra profitti, guadagni extra dovuti solo alla crisi e all'aumento dei prezzi. E il governo Meloni che cosa fa invece di tassarli?
Propaganda. Eni annuncia uno sconto sulle bollette di 200 euro all'anno, ma la notte prima alza i prezzi e lo sconto lo applica sul prezzo già gonfiato. Alle famiglie alla fine resteranno 2 euro di risparmio l'anno, una vergogna. E sui carburanti lo stesso gioco. Non possiamo lasciare le multinazionali arricchirsi e i cittadini impoverirsi.
Chiediamo alla Commissione e agli Stati membri una tassa europea sugli extra profitti delle aziende fossili, 161 miliardi accumulati da marzo. Questa è la nostra Europa: chi inquina e guadagna sulla crisi energetica deve pagare.
Esteban González Pons
Grazie onorevole. You cannot show the advertisement from the rostrum, but it was in the end, so I can do nothing.
My next speaker is Mr. Geuking, you have the floor.
Speaker 237
Wir sprechen über eine Übergewinnsteuer für Klimazerstörer, was ein unterstützenswertes Anliegen ist. Und es hängt ja von der konkreten Ausgestaltung ab, ob es überhaupt einen Beitrag, einen nennenswerten Beitrag geben kann dabei, um die Klimakatastrophe aufzuhalten. Nichtsdestotrotz unterstützenswert. Was mich aber massiv stört, ist, dass der Fokus liegt bei dem Energiesektor. Der Bereich Landwirtschaft und Lebensmittelerzeugung wird leider fast immer außer Betracht gelassen, was daran liegt, dass immer es heißt, 10 bis 15 % macht dieser Bereich lediglich aus.
Speaker 236
Das stimmt aber nicht, es ist rund ein Drittel. Denn man muss es richtig berechnen. Wenn man das tut, kommt man eben auf ein Drittel, wenn man zum Beispiel mit in Betracht zieht, dass der Regenwald gerodet wird für Weiden und für Futtermittelimporte. Der Wirtschafts- und Sozialausschuss der Europäischer hat auch ausdrücklich bestätigt, dass in dem Bereich eine sehr hohe Konzentration vorliegt und Übergewinne vorhanden sind.
Das heißt, wir haben die Fakten auf dem Tisch liegend und sollten hier auch handeln. In einer Welt, in der hauptberuflich kommerziell mit Klimazerstörung und Tierausbeutung Geld verdient wird, während die Tierschützer und Umweltschützer ehrenamtlich arbeiten, ihr Bestes tun, brauchen wir nicht nur die Übergewinnsteuer, sondern auch sofort wirksame, effektive Maßnahmen, um Klimazerstörung, Umweltzerstörung und Tierleid aufzuhalten. Ich hoffe, da kommen wir in den nächsten Jahren voran. Vielen Dank.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Thank you very much. My next speaker is Madame Eriksson.
Tack för ordet. Ja, jag kikade lite på oljebolagens redovisningar. Shell, Equinor, TotalEnergies, deras extravinster hade senaste månaderna bara hade räckt till hela Norrbotniabanan från Umeå till Luleå. De hade räckt till en tunnel under havet mellan Skandinavien och Tyskland. Och det hade ändå blivit miljarder över till investeringar som pressar ner vanligt folks energiräkningar.
Tänk på det. Var läggs bördorna? Var hamnar vinsterna?
Vanliga löntagare får betala mer för att värma sina hem, köra till jobbet, få vardagen att gå ihop. Då gräper bolagen guld med soppslev för att vi sitter i ett beroende av fossila bränslen. Nej tack. Nej tack. Och det här handlar inte bara om klimatet, det är en fråga om sunt förnuft.
Bördorna i krisen måste delas mer rättvist. Tack.
Chers collègues, le nombre de cancers en France a doublé en 30 ans. Emy est morte d'une leucémie parce que sa mère manipulait des fleurs traitées pendant sa grossesse. Emy est la première à avoir été reconnue victime des pesticides. Romain, 41 ans, un cancer de la mâchoire, laissant derrière lui deux enfants. Julia, elle avait la vie devant elle, elle a, elle est décédée suite à un cancer du pancréas.
Je pourrais donner des noms pendant très longtemps. Pesticides, perturbateurs endocriniens, c'est le business avant l'humain. 25 000 euros d'indemnisation pour le chagrin inconsolable des parents d'Emy. Et 21 milliards d'euros pour BASF en 2025. Au nom d'Emy et de toutes les vies brisées, pas de charité mais la justice.
Rima Hassan
Taxer immédiatement les superprofits pour financer nos hôpitaux, pour financer la recherche contre le cancer.
Le temps de l'impunité est terminé.
Bruno Tobback
Thank you chair, colleagues. Europe will pay hundreds of billions of euros more this year for its addiction to fossil fuels. And apart from some luscious bonuses for oil executives and a bit of investment in some football clubs probably, most of that cash will flow out of our continent. And when desperate European governments subsidize fuel prices at the pump with money they don't have, we can borrow it back at ever higher interest rates for which our taxpayers will pay with yet more suffering. And if it sounds like a scenario for a movie about drug addicts and their dealers, that's because it is.
So let's break that vicious circle, colleagues. Rather than making our people pay the speculators, let the speculators pay to help our people. And let's invest in a way out. The transition that Mario Draghi proposes actually costs less than what we pay today for our oil and gas. If you don't want to call it green, maybe just call it rehab.
Bruno Tobback
And I would hope that the Commission would lead the way a bit more than it does today, because leaving it to the Member States apparently does not lead to common sense all over Europe, and that is what we need. Thanks.
Or call it common sense.
Aurore Lalucq
Monsieur le Président, Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues, six pays, comme vous le savez, appellent à la taxation des superprofits. Ce sont des pays de couleurs différentes politiquement. Il y a un pays qui s'oppose, et ce pays s'appelle la France. Et donc j'ai une question : est-ce que la France a sincèrement les moyens aujourd'hui budgétaires, regardez les spreads encore aujourd'hui, de se passer de revenus fiscaux ? Je ne le crois pas.
Donc j'aimerais une explication sur ce point. Ensuite, on nous explique que, oh, la taxation des superprofits, ça marche pas très bien en France. Je tiens à rassurer le gouvernement français, on peut tout à fait travailler sur l'assiette s'il y a besoin. C'est une question technique. Ensuite, on nous dit : "Oui, mais regardez, si on taxe Total", parce que c'est ça en réalité le sujet, "si on taxe Total, ils vont moins innover".
Je tiens là aussi à rassurer le gouvernement français, Total a d'ores et déjà décidé de faire des rachats d'actions. Donc je pense qu'ils ont largement de quoi faire. Donc il y a deux solutions : soit on taxe les superprofits, soit Total donne un prix préférentiel à l'ensemble des Européens, à l'ensemble des distributeurs.
Aurore Lalucq
J'ai pas l'impression que ça soit leur direction artistique du moment. Et en tout cas, la France doit clarifier immédiatement sa position car la France, car l'Europe, pardon, la regarde. Merci beaucoup.
Dan Jørgensen
Thank you, honorable members. Member states are best placed to tax windfall profits based on domestic specificity of their own energy sector and local operators. The Commission will respect member states' decisions if they take recourse to windfall taxes, and we stand ready to support member states with the best practices on national measures. Speaking more broadly, it is vital that all of our policies and tax systems at European and national levels support low-carbon investment so that we can reach our climate commitments for 2040 and 2050. This strategy will not only contribute to mitigating climate change globally, it will also help us reduce our dependency on imported fossil fuels.
Ultimately, this will lower energy costs and increase security of energy supply. Apart from the revenue side, we should also have a look at public expenditure in this debate. The Commission recently published a fitness check of the polluter pays principle in EU policies. There is scope for improvement. Applying this principle helps to achieve the EU's climate and environmental goals more efficiently.
Environmentally harmful subsidies are particularly relevant as they send the wrong incentive to polluters. This is also reflected in the European Semester cycle, where country-specific recommendations provide an opportunity to put forward targeted reforms focused on addressing environmentally harmful subsidies. For example, in 2025 and 26, several Member States received country-specific recommendations highlighting the importance of phasing out fossil fuel subsidies. And last but not least, addressing Honorable Member Torossian's introduction, protecting health is the foundation for us as citizens and for our economy. It is also not one-dimensional.
It spans from every level of governance to various policy fields.
When it comes to food on our table, food in Europe must be safe, and our legislation is among the most comprehensive and stringent in the world. EU law protects human health from risks related to contaminants and pesticides residues in food. Maximum levels for contaminants and pesticide residues are set out in legislation, following risk assessment by the European Food Safety Authority. Protecting people against toxic substances ultimately comes down to one objective: preventing harm before it happens. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, Mr. Commissioner. Minister Byrne, you can close the debate.
Thomas Byrne
Thank you very much, members. Thank you, Commissioner. This has been a very engaging exchange of views here today.
It's an extremely interesting and relevant topic to our citizens from different angles: the cost of living, climate action, social justice, competitiveness, securing our own energy supplies, and indeed questions of subsidiarity and EU competence. Our debate has highlighted all of these things. And I certainly can't speak for any individual member state, including my own, although it was mentioned. But as I said, on the Council side, the discussion is going to continue with the European Council this week, but also ECOFIN and the energy configuration as well. The issue of a windfall tax will be discussed this week, and the appropriate technical analysis will be carried out in the Council preparatory bodies.
It's important to remember that the European Union has delivered on this before in 2022, when we took serious action, and that action is having positive repercussions still. And of course, if necessary, the Union will work together to deliver even more if these circumstances continue. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, Minister. The debate is closed. We reopen the option for blue cards and catch the eye. The next item on the agenda is oral question to the Commission: the upcoming EU anti-corruption strategy. En primer lugar, le doy la palabra al autor de la pregunta, presidente de la Comisión LIBE, su señoría, señor Zarzalejos.
Javier Zarzalejos
Gracias, gracias, presidente. Commissioner, corruption is not simply another form of crime. It's an attack on the institutions that citizens are supposed to trust.
And fighting corruption requires consistency. There can be no culture of integrity if corruption is prosecuted on one hand while accountability is weakened on the other. Because the perception of impunity can be as damaging to democratic legitimacy as corruption itself. Corruption diverts public money, distorts economic competition, weakens the rule of law and undermines confidence in democracy. And increasingly, corruption is also a security issue.
It enables organized crime to penetrate our economies and our institutions. It facilitates money laundering and the concealment of criminal assets. And it creates opportunities for hostile actors to exercise influence over our democratic decision-making process. The figures illustrate the scale of the challenge. Almost seven out of ten European citizens believe that corruption is widespread in their country.
The economic cost of corruption in the European Union is estimated at hundreds of billions of euros every year. And almost 60% of known criminal groups use corruption as part of their activities. There are no abstract figures.
Javier Zarzalejos
This is money that should be financing our public services, supporting our economies and improving the lives of European citizens. This is why the LIBE committee welcomes the Commission decision to present the first comprehensive EU anti-corruption strategy. But our message today is also clear: Europe does not need another strategy that merely describes the problem. We need a strategy capable of changing the reality on the ground. We already have important legislation.
Earlier this year, we adopted the new anti-corruption directive. What we need now is effective implementation, proper enforcement and the political determination to ensure that the rules apply in practice. And prevention must be at the center of this effort. We need stronger safeguards where corruption finds opportunity: in public procurement, in the management of public and European funds, in lobbying and political financing, in conflicts of interest and revolving doors. Transparency is not bureaucracy.
It is one of our strongest safeguards against corruption. But prevention alone is not enough. When corruption takes place, it must be investigated and prosecuted effectively.
Javier Zarzalejos
That requires strong and independent judicial authorities, prosecutors, and specialized anti-corruption bodies with the resources and independence necessary to do the job. There can be no credible fight against corruption if those investigating corruption can be pressured, weakened, or politicized. We must also recognize that corruption no longer stops at national jurisdictions. So organized crime networks move money, assets, and activity across European countries. Corruption, money laundering, and organized crime increasingly reinforce each other.
Our European response must therefore be equally interconnected. And let me highlight the importance of Europol, Eurojust, the European Public Prosecutor's Office, and OLAF, and our anti-money laundering architecture to be able to cooperate effectively to detect corruption, follow the money, recover criminal assets, and protect the Union's financial interests. And Europe obviously must apply the same standards to itself. The credibility of our action depends on strong rules on integrity, transparency, and accountability, not only in the Member States, but also within the institutions of the European Union. This strategy must therefore come with measurable objectives, adequate resources, and effective monitoring.
Because adopting a strategy is not the objective. Delivering results is.
Tomorrow, Parliament will vote on the resolution agreed by the LIBE Committee. It sets out our ambitious position on prevention, transparency, integrity, effective investigation and prosecution, stronger action against the links between corruption and criminal and organized crime, and proper monitoring of the implementation. Against this background and on behalf of the Committee of Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs, I would like to ask the Commission three questions. First, how will the upcoming strategy strengthen prevention and help build a genuine culture of integrity, transparency, and accountability across the European Union? Second, how will the Commission ensure that the recently adopted anti-corruption directive is transposed correctly, implemented effectively, and enforced in a timely manner by all member states?
And third, what concrete measures will the Commission propose to safeguard the independence of judicial authorities, prosecutors, and specialized bodies responsible for investigating and prosecuting corruption? Thank you.
Michael McGrath
Dear President, honorable members, can I begin by thanking honorable member Javier Zarzalejos on behalf of the LIBE Committee for tabling this important oral question. Corruption is not just a criminal matter. It threatens our democracies, the rule of law, and the very fabric of our societies. It erodes trust in institutions, distorts fair competition, and undermines the proper use of scarce public funds. The recently adopted directive on combating corruption marks, I believe, a turning point.
For the first time, the Union has a common, comprehensive legal framework to fight corruption. And that achievement owes a great deal to this House, and I again thank all of you for the immense work that you put into that project. Parliament's ambition throughout the negotiations is clearly reflected in the final text. But adopting rules is only the first step. Citizens will indeed judge us by results, whether corruption is prevented, detected, investigated, and sanctioned, and whether the rules apply equally to everyone.
This is why the Commission will present the first-ever EU anti-corruption strategy before the end of this year. Building on the directive, it will provide a common framework for tackling corruption in the years ahead, bringing together public authorities, businesses, civil society, and citizens in a whole-of-society approach.
Corruption isn't confined to one sector, institution or Member State. And the context in which it operates, we know, is changing fast. It is increasingly now a security challenge too. Corruption enables organised crime to infiltrate public authorities and hostile actors to undermine our democracies. New technologies and complex cross-border financial flows create new risks, but also new tools to fight against corruption.
And citizens expect results. 75% of Europeans and 65% of companies consider corruption to be widespread in their country. The directive gives us a common rulebook. It harmonises the main offences. It sets minimum levels of penalties and for the first time establishes European standards for prevention.
Its success will depend on effective transposition, implementation and enforcement, and the Commission will actively support the Member States in their efforts. The Commission's Rule of Law reports show that legal frameworks are strong in most Member States, but gaps remain in areas such as lobbying, asset declarations and revolving doors.
The strategy is our chance to set a long-term course in the fight against corruption. We want prevention, detection, investigation, and enforcement to reinforce one another and action at a local, national, and European and international level to be better connected. New technologies can help us to detect corruption and support integrity. We can also build on the cooperation that already exists, such as the EU network against corruption, and make that cooperation more operational. The objective is not simply about more action, but that our efforts are better coordinated, more coherent, and more effective.
That should be the central goal of the upcoming strategy, and I look forward to hearing the views of the honorable members and responding. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, Mr. Commissioner. Now we jump into the groups, and my first speaker is Mr. Casa on behalf of the EPP group.
David Casa
Grazzi, Sur President, Kummissarju. Irrid nirringrazzja lil Javier Zarzalejos u l-kollegi li kelli miegħi naħdmu fuq din ir-riżoluzzjoni li se nivvutaw fuqha nhar il-Ħamis. Aktar kmieni din is-sena l-Parlament adotta liġi Ewropea ġdida b'saħħitha kontra l-korruzzjoni. Għandi l-unur li kont qed immexxi dawn in-negozjati f'isem il-Partit Popolari Ewropew. Imma l-liġijiet waħedhom mhumiex biżżejjed.
Iridu jitħaddmu, iridu jkunu infurzati u f'kull Stat Membru. Nagħti żewġ eżempji.
F'Malta, pereżempju, nafu sew x'jiġri meta l-istituzzjonijiet ifallu. Daphne Caruana Galizia ġiet assassinata waqt li kienet qed tinvestiga l-korruzzjoni. Disa' snin wara, ir-rakkomandazzjonijiet ewlenin tal-inkjesta pubblika għadhom ma ġewx implimentati u l-ħelsien riċenti fil-każ tal-assassinju tagħha reġa' qajjem mistoqsijiet serji dwar ir-responsabbiltà u l-impunità li hemm f'Malta. U f'Malta mhux każ waħdu. Kien ħarsa lejn Spanja, pereżempju, taħt Pedro Sánchez, l-iskandli ta' korruzzjoni waslu sal-qalba tal-poter fil-partit tiegħu, fost l-eqreb nies tiegħu, saħansitra fil-familja tiegħu.
U Sánchez ma jistax jibqa' jaġixxi bħallikieku dan kollu m'għandux x'jaqsam xejn miegħu. Meta l-korruzzjoni tasal daqshekk viċin, Prim Ministru għandu responsabbiltà politika. U dan huwa eżattament għaliex l-Ewropa trid tkun soda.
David Casa
Mhux Malta u Spanja biss, iżda kull fejn hemm korruzzjoni, kull fejn hemm l-abbuż tal-poter, ir-regoli jridu japplikaw bl-istess mod. Il-liġi l-ġdida tagħna tagħtina għodod ġodda. Tagħtina għodod ġodda u issa rridu naraw li dawn jitħaddmu tassew, bl-istess serjetà, bl-istess serjetà kulħadd kien. Għaliex l-istituzzjonijiet għandhom jipproteġu liċ-ċittadini. Il-Kummissjoni Ewropea ukoll għandha tipproteġi liċ-ċittadini.
M'għandhiex tipproteġi lill-politiċi korrotti u lil min hu kompliċi magħhom, għaliex ħadd m'għandu jkun 'il fuq mil-liġi. Grazzi ħafna.
Chloé Ridel
Chers collègues, je me félicite que nous adoptions une résolution contre la corruption qui envoie des messages forts, des règles de prévention plus strictes sur les activités parallèles des députés, par exemple, sur le financement des partis politiques, les conflits d'intérêts, le pantouflage et un renforcement du parquet européen pour accroître les moyens de tracer les réseaux de corruption sur lesquels s'appuie la mafia et le narcotrafic en Europe. J'appelle la Commission à s'en inspirer pour sa future stratégie de lutte contre la corruption. Mais chers collègues, la vérité, c'est que nos propositions continueront de manquer de crédibilité tant qu'elles émaneront d'une institution, le Parlement européen, qui reste elle-même permissive à la corruption. Affaire des assistants parlementaires du RN, Qatargate, HuaweiGate, affaire Dati et j'en passe. Comment expliquer que malgré les scandales, le Parlement européen soit toujours à la traîne pour prévenir et sanctionner les détournements de fonds et les conflits d'intérêts en son sein ?
Speaker 245
Comment expliquer que dans les faits, il soit toujours possible d'être député européen et lobbyiste ? Comment est-il possible de siéger en commission de l'agriculture tout en travaillant pour une fédération agricole inscrite au registre des lobbies ? Comment est-il possible de siéger en commission de la défense tout en travaillant pour une entreprise d'armement ? Et tout cela sans être inquiété. Ces exemples que je viens de citer, chers collègues, sont réels.
Chloé Ridel
Je peux aussi mentionner le cas d'une députée dont nous avons refusé de lever l'immunité parlementaire alors que celle-ci était visée par une enquête du Parquet européen pour détournement de fonds. Plus nous continuons de baigner dans l'impunité en continuant à nous autoréguler, ou plutôt devrais-je dire à nous autoprotéger, plus nos votes en faveur d'une société moins corrompue sonnent comme de l'hypocrisie. On ne peut pas demander aux autres ce que nous refusons de nous appliquer à nous-mêmes. Alors, chers collègues, la première chose à faire, c'est de faire en sorte que tous les élus ici soient au service de l'intérêt général, irréprochables quand il s'agit des conflits d'intérêts. Il faut passer de la parole aux actes et établir de véritables règles pour prévenir et sanctionner la corruption et le détournement de fonds au sein de cette institution, et en mettant fin aussi à l'autoprotection et l'autorégulation en cessant de bloquer la mise en place de l'organe éthique européen.
Esteban González Pons
Merci, Madame.
On behalf of the PfE group, Monsieur Leggeri. Monsieur Leggeri.
Fabrice Leggeri
En 1971, François Mitterrand dénonçait l'argent qui corrompt, l'argent qui achète, l'argent qui écrase. Dix ans plus tard, il ajoutait : aux dirigeants de montrer l'exemple. Certains de ses héritiers européens auraient été bien inspirés de suivre le conseil. Le Qatargate a révélé des soupçons de corruption au cœur même de ce Parlement, impliquant plusieurs personnalités issues de la famille socialiste européenne. Alors oui, l'Europe doit lutter contre la corruption, mais elle doit commencer par être exemplaire.
Nous attendons aujourd'hui une véritable transparence sur l'utilisation des fonds européens, sur leurs bénéficiaires et sur le fonctionnement de nos propres institutions. En revanche, nous refusons que la lutte contre la corruption devienne le prétexte à un renforcement permanent de la conditionnalité liée à l'état de droit et un instrument de chantage politique sur les États membres. La lutte contre la corruption exige de la transparence, de la responsabilité et de l'exemplarité. Avant de donner des leçons à l'Europe entière, Bruxelles doit commencer par se les appliquer. Merci Monsieur le Président.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much. On behalf of the ECR group... There is, I don't know if this is a blue card, but there is a blue card. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it.
Thank you very much. They are open, I said it at the first part. No, but it's not allowed in the first round when the speakers are taking the floor on behalf of their groups. So you, sorry, but you don't have the blue card. On behalf of the ECR Group, Mr. Kamiński.
Mariusz Kamiński
Szanowni Państwo, Unia Europejska ma poważny problem z korupcją. W ostatnich latach doszło do szeregu skandali korupcyjnych z udziałem ważnych europejskich polityków i wysokich urzędników. Mamy ciągle nierozliczone afery Qatargate i Huawei. Mamy afery z udziałem byłych komisarzy: Reyndersa, Avramopoulosa, Mogherini. Obywatele Unii mają dość tej degrengolady i oczekują zdecydowanych działań.
Przyjęta w ostatnim czasie dyrektywa antykorupcyjna jest zbyt słabą reakcją na tę sytuację. Panie Komisarzu, strategia antykorupcyjna Unii musi się odnosić przede wszystkim do instytucji unijnych. Instytucje unijne są nietransparentne i potrzebują wprowadzenia nowych, twardych mechanizmów antykorupcyjnych. W szczególności istotne jest wprowadzenie obowiązku składania pod odpowiedzialnością karną jawnych i podlegających weryfikacji oświadczeń majątkowych.
Dzisiejsze uznaniowe deklaracje o braku konfliktu interesów składane przez komisarzy są absolutnie niewystarczające. Należy również zdecydowanie uderzyć w nielegalny lobbing i wyeliminować zjawisko drzwi obrotowych. Z punktu widzenia skutecznej walki z korupcją niezwykle ważne jest wsparcie dla wyspecjalizowanych i niezależnych organów antykorupcyjnych, takich jak polskie Centralne Biuro Antykorupcyjne. Panie komisarzu, jeśli Unia rzeczywiście chce walczyć z korupcją, musi zacząć od własnych instytucji.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague, on behalf of the Renew Group, Madame Garcia Hermida-Vanderwalle.
Gracias, presidente. Thank you, Commissioner. Dear colleagues, with many of you I negotiated the new anti-corruption directive for the European Union, our new law. And I can tell you, my biggest frustration was national governments not wanting more mandatory measures to prevent corruption. Too much work, not necessary.
So I am wondering what would Daphne Caruana Galizia have said to this? And Giorgos Karaivaz, two journalists killed for investigating high-level corruption in Malta and Greece. And still there is no justice for them. Corruption kills, and not only in Malta and Greece, but everywhere in our Union.
Raquel García Hermida-Van Der Walle
And we owe it to them and to all of our citizens to be bolder. We need to prevent corruption before it can happen. We need to implement the anti-corruption directive as if lives depended on it, because they do. We need fully independent prosecutors and judges who can do their work free from pressure. We want a culture of integrity instead of a culture of impunity.
For Giorgos, for Daphne. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Gracias, señoría. The next speaker is Mr. Freund on behalf of the Greens.
Thank you, President. Dear colleagues, dear Commissioner. The biggest success in the fight against corruption in the European Union that we have seen in recent years was that Hungarian voters threw out the most corrupt government that we have seen in the history of the Union. After 16 years of Orbán and his family and friends stealing billions of taxpayer money, this is now over. The king of corruption is out.
Daniel Freund
But Orbán was not only the king of corruption in Hungary, he was unfortunately also the king of corruption at the negotiation table in Brussels. Because while the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom adopted Magnitsky regimes and allow that the most corrupt people in the world can be sanctioned and kept out, Orbán prevented that we did the same in the European Union. To this day, we don't have this. And honestly, the most corrupt people should not enjoy our cities, our beaches, our universities. We should now that he is gone urgently introduce that sanction regime in the European Union as well.
Thank you very much.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. My next speaker on behalf of the GUE group, of the Greens, of the Left is Mr. Antonino Adonigi.
Giuseppe Antoci
Grazie Presidente. La corruzione non è un reato, è un furto di democrazia. La strategia anticorruzione deve avere un obiettivo di combatterla, certamente, ma anche di prevenirla. Guardare anche agli Stati membri, quello che accade nei Paesi, quello che è accaduto in Italia, dove un Ministro della Giustizia Carlo Nordio ha pensato bene di cancellare l'abuso d'ufficio, un reato terribile. L'Europa è più forte quando non lascia quei cittadini da soli, così come è accaduto in Italia.
Significa non lasciarli da soli significa il lavoro che abbiamo fatto approvando la direttiva anticorruzione e l'articolo sette, esercizio illecito delle funzioni pubbliche, proprio quell'abuso d'ufficio che in Italia era stato cancellato. Ha fatto bene la nostra relatrice a ribadire che l'Italia sarà obbligata. E allora l'Europa più forte significa dimostrare che il potere pubblico non è un privilegio, non è una zona franca, perché chi esercita le funzioni pubbliche lo deve fare con disciplina ed onore e invito la Commissione a vigilare affinché gli Stati membri adottino la direttiva con la stessa disciplina ed onore. Grazie.
Esteban González Pons
Grazie onorevole. Now we jump in the second part of the debate and my first speaker is la signora Chinnici.
Grazie presidente, signor commissario. Corrumpere, rompere, rovinare, distruggere l'integrità di qualcosa. Questo è l'origine del termine corruzione e questo effettivamente fa la corruzione. Rovina la democrazia, mina la fiducia nelle istituzioni, viola uguaglianza e libertà di iniziativa. Riduce la qualità dei servizi, costa centinaia di miliardi di euro e dà modo alle organizzazioni criminali di infiltrarsi nelle amministrazioni.
Caterina Chinnici
Un fenomeno così pervasivo e, come attesta l'Eurobarometro, così diffuso richiede una risposta globale che parta dalla prevenzione. Una prevenzione indirizzata anche alla informazione e alla sensibilizzazione dei cittadini, inclusi i più giovani, perché la corruzione in realtà è una grave violazione dei loro diritti. E ci vuole cooperazione, maggiore cooperazione, scambio di informazioni, interoperabilità fra autorità nazionali e organi e agenzie dell'Unione che vanno tutti sostenuti con adeguate risorse perché corruzione, riciclaggio e crimine organizzato si intrecciano tra loro e travalicano ogni confine. La strategia anticorruzione, per cui ringrazio la Commissione, deve poi fare sistema con la revisione dell'architettura antifrode e con le nuove norme contro la criminalità organizzata, a partire dall'adozione di una nuova e più moderna nozione di organizzazione criminale, comune e condivisa, che rifletta la dimensione imprenditoriale assunta dalle reti criminali e già intravista da mio padre Rocco Chinnici, giudice ucciso dalla mafia nel 1982. Grazie.
Corupția nu este o problemă abstractă. Are un cost direct pentru fiecare cetățean.
Victor Negrescu
Fiecare euro pierdut din cauza corupției este un euro care nu mai ajunge în școli, spitale, locuințe, infrastructură sau servicii publice mai bune. Dar trebuie să vorbim și despre noile forme ale corupției și despre legătura tot mai puternică dintre corupție și criminalitatea organizată. Vedem rețele de trafic de droguri care folosesc corupția pentru a-și proteja activitățile. Vedem fluxuri financiare și active transferate peste granițe și ascunse prin structuri tot mai complexe. Vedem dezvoltarea platformelor ilegale de pariuri online care operează dincolo de frontiere și evită regulile naționale.
În fața unor rețele care operează transfrontalier, răspunsul nostru nu poate rămâne exclusiv național. Noua strategie europeană anticorupție trebuie să conecteze mai bine prevenția, combaterea criminalității organizate, lupta împotriva spălării banilor și protejarea fondurilor europene. Avem nevoie de schimb de informații mai rapid, de o justiție independentă, de cooperare între autoritățile naționale și cele europene și de capacitatea reală de a identifica, îngheța și recupera banii proveniți din corupție și criminalitate.
De aceea, în calitate de raportor, am solicitat și obținut sprijinul Parlamentului European pentru a cere creșterea bugetului dedicat justiției. Totodată, avem nevoie de transparență, reguli clare privind conflictele de interese, așa cum au spus și colegii mei mai devreme, aceleași standarde trebuie să se aplice peste tot, inclusiv în instituțiile europene. În calitate de vicepreședinte al Parlamentului European responsabil de transparență și combaterea corupției, cred că obiectivul nostru trebuie să fie clar: să protejăm banii europeni, să protejăm instituțiile democratice și încrederea cetățenilor și asta trece inclusiv prin aplicarea acestor standarde și structura care se ocupă de etică trebuie să fie sprijinită pentru a deveni realitate cât mai rapid cu putință. Mulțumesc.
Dick Erixon
Ja, det är glädjande att kommissionen har lagt fram den här strategin mot korruption. Jag sitter själv i budgetkontrollutskottet och är rapportör när det gäller översynen av antibedrägeriarkitekturen, som det heter, där vi vill stärka arbetet med att just upptäcka då den ekonomiska korruptionen. Och den här juridiska är ju lika viktig att komma till rätta med, att bekämpa med alla möjliga medel.
Och jag tyckte den här muntliga frågan var väldigt bra ställd om att prata om en kultur av transparens. Tyvärr hörde jag ingenting av kommissionären i inledningstalet här om transparens. För jag upplever att det är kärnan i bekämpningen utav korruption och bedrägerier, att vi gör transaktioner med EU-medel tillgängliga, synliga, offentliga ända ner till slutanvändare. Då bekämpar man, förebygger man korruption på det mest effektiva sättet som finns tror jag. Det borde vi jobba med mer.
Tack.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, dear colleague. My next speaker is Madame Joveva. You have the floor.
Irena Joveva
Colleagues, Commissioner, we have the anti-corruption directive now. It's crucial. But the sharpest legal tool is useless if the hands holding the scales of justice are tied. And that dangerous squeeze is visible across the member states, unfortunately, also including Slovenia, where under Janez Janša's new government, prosecutors' offices are being overhauled under the hollow guise of efficiency, while parliamentary inquiries are weaponized as political tribunals to intimidate independent voices. Different laws, same principle.
Who watches those in power and who controls the watchers? When politicians pick who investigates, also them, they don't increase efficiency of justice. They create impunity. And that's not fighting corruption. It's fighting investigation.
Therefore, the upcoming EU anti-corruption strategy cannot remain an exercise in legal cosmetics. Corruption doesn't fear another piece of paper, it fears prosecutors whose decisions cannot be controlled by those in power. And the new Slovenian laws show exactly why. They call it an anti-corruption reform. Sure, it reforms, but the wrong side of the equation.
Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Mr. Al-Sahlani, you have the floor.
Arvoisa puhemies, komissaari. Korruptio ei ole Venäjälle pahe, se on ase. Ennen sotaa se toimi diileillä, hunajalla ja rahalla. Entisiä pääministereitä toimi venäläisten energiayhtiöiden konsultteina, istui niiden hallituksissa. Likaista rahaa pestiin eurooppalaisissa pankeissa sadoilla miljardeilla.
Kun hyökkäys alkoi helmikuussa 22, moni Euroopan pääkaupunki oli jo valmiiksi pehmitetty. Sota ei loputa tartuntaa. Raha liikkuu yhä: Moldovassa on ostettu ääniä ja pakotteita kierretään peiteyhtiöiden ja varjolaivaston kautta. Raha ja hunaja eivät kuitenkaan enää riitä.
Rikollismaailma tuntee tarjouksen: hopeaa tai lyijyä. Nyt Euroopalle näytetään lyijyä: pelkoa ja fyysistä uhkaa. Päättäjien koteihin tunkeudutaan, autoja ja taloja sytytetään tuleen. Nimiä kirjataan listoille. Kansio ihmisestä on sama kuin ennenkin: ennen siitä etsittiin hinta, nyt heikko kohta.
Siksi komission korruptionvastainen strategia on turvallisuuspolitiikkaa. Sen on katettava molemmat: raha, jolla ostetaan, ja pelko, jolla vaiennetaan. Todelliset omistajat on tuotava näkyviin. Pakotteiden kiertämisestä on seurattava rangaistus jokaisessa jäsenmaassa, ja niitä, joita painostetaan, on suojattava. Ostettu päättäjä, pelotettu äänestäjä ja päättäjä toimivat samalla tavalla.
Demokratia ei kestä kumpaakaan.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, dear colleague. Madame Incir, you have the floor.
Evin Incir
Kollegor, kommissionär.
Korruption börjar där ansvarsutkrävande upphör. Kontroverserna rörande den moderata statsministern Ulf Kristersson i Sverige, från Folklöknastiftelsen till Landerholmsaffären och frågor om användning av statliga residens, påminner oss om att inget land är immunt. Korruption har många ansikten. Det kan handla om pengar, det kan handla om gentjänster, tillgång till makt eller missbruk av offentliga resurser. Men priset betalas alltid av medborgarna och i slutändan vår demokrati.
Mitt land Sverige tillhör fortfarande de länder i världen med lägst korruption, men vår position har försämrats de senaste åren och det borde vara en väckarklocka för många. Därför måste EU agera med transparens, skarpare granskning och verkliga konsekvenser för dem som missbrukar allmänhetens förtroende. Och EU:s antikorruptionsstrategi måste vara ambitiös. Vi behöver bland annat striktare regler om intressekonflikter och politisk finansiering.
För demokratin kan inte överleva om människor upplever att det finns ett regelverk för dem och ett annat regelverk för oss som har makt att förändra.
Esteban González Pons
Ms Incir, you have a blue card from Mr Zegowski from the EPP group. Do you accept it? Mr Zegowski, seat 145.
Tomáš Zdechovský
Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to ask you, Ms Incir, you spoke about your Prime Minister, Swedish Prime Minister, but the corruption in Sweden generally is very low. Do you think, but there are some another countries like Czech Republic and the Prime Minister is in conflict of interest and the European Commission decided he is in conflict in interest and they still send him the European money, money of European voters. Do you think that this is fair, how to behave, or the Commission have to have it stronger measures and stronger action against these people what are linked with conflict of interest?
Thank you very much for the question. First and foremost, I believe that in all cases where there are indications or any kind of suspicions over that there could be corruption, they need to be looked into.
Evin Incir
And I also think that on a European level, we need to look on the tools that we have. We need to strengthen it through, among others, the anti-corruption strategy, but also I would say to link more closely the yearly report on democracy, the rule of law, to the financing that we are providing the member states with. So, in the end, look into the cases that there could be some kind of suspicions about, but then also ensure that we have the tools. But I also want to finalize with just saying that we should not use political games against each other, because sometimes here in the European Parliament, I feel that things that shouldn't become political becomes political so that when serious cases appears, they are not looked into thoroughly. Thank you.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you, madam. My next speaker is my friend Mr. Schipper.
René Schipper
Cari cittadini d'Europa, un tedesco che parla in italiano di corruzione. Vedo già arrivare i commenti arrabbiati. Molti deputati dei partiti populisti, anche generali congedati dal servizio, accusano l'Unione Europea di corruzione. E allo stesso tempo spesso sono le stesse persone a produrre i più grandi scandali di corruzione. La democrazia non appartiene a chi grida più forte.
Non appartiene ai generali.
Non appartiene ai giudici di internet. Appartiene alle persone. E in loro nome sono i tribunali indipendenti a decidere chi è corrotto, non i politici. Chi vuole combattere la corruzione deve quindi proteggere soprattutto una cosa: lo Stato di diritto. Grazie mille.
Esteban González Pons
Grazie, caro collega. El siguiente orador es el señor Vázquez Lázara. Señoría.
Gracias, presidente. Caso Koldo: el exministro de Transportes del Gobierno Sánchez condenado a 24 años de prisión por organización criminal, cohecho, malversación y tráfico de influencias. 19 años para su asesor. Caso Fiscal General: condenado a dos años de inhabilitación por revelación de secretos contra la oposición política. Caso David Sánchez: el hermano del presidente y el líder del PSOE en Extremadura condenados por prevaricación.
Adrián Vázquez Lázara
Caso Cerdán: el secretario de organización del PSOE en prisión provisional por el presunto amaño de obra pública. La presidenta de la red pública de transportes y varios altos cargos de este ministerio también imputados. Caso Plus Ultra: el expresidente Zapatero, padre político del señor Sánchez, imputado por el rescate de 53 millones de fondos Next Gen.
Las joyas de Zapatero, imputación paralela al expresidente por fraude fiscal y contrabando. Caso Leyre 10, presunta trama para desestabilizar cauces judiciales contra dirigentes socialistas atacando a jueces, fiscales y cuerpos de seguridad del Estado. Caso Cloacas, la Audiencia Nacional investiga a la gerente del Partido Socialista, la directora de la Guardia Civil y el director de la Policía por prevaricación y otros delitos contra la administración de justicia. Financiación irregular del PSOE, bajo secreto de sumario los pagos en metálico a este partido entre 2017 y 2024. Mascarillas de Canarias, el actual ministro de política territorial investigado por la Fiscalía Europea por posible malversación.
Caso Begoña Gómez, juicio oral a la esposa del presidente por tráfico de influencias y malversación. Y podría seguir un buen rato, señor comisario. Un Estado miembro, un solo gobierno donde más de 15 procesos judiciales están abiertos siendo juzgados, más de 120 imputados, cero reformas contra la corrupción en ocho años, señor comisario. Y no será porque lo venimos avisando a esta Comisión desde el inicio de mandato. Por lo tanto, sí, la estrategia europea contra la corrupción no solo es necesaria, es imprescindible.
Muchas gracias.
Esteban González Pons
Muchas gracias, señoría. El señor Erroutolo, you have the floor.
Sandro Ruotolo
Grazie presidente, caro commissario. La lotta alla corruzione passa innanzitutto dalla trasparenza, per questo è importante che la proposta sugli appalti pubblici presentata dalla Commissione il 9 settembre punti a digitalizzare l'intero ciclo di vita dei contratti pubblici e a costruire una vera banca dati europea degli appalti. Significa più efficienza e velocità, ma soprattutto più controlli, più tracciabilità e meno zone d'ombra. Ora il Parlamento deve rafforzare questa proposta e dobbiamo affrontare il tema dei subappalti a cascata. In nome della concorrenza abbiamo creato catene sempre più lunghe, dove aumentano l'opacità, il rischio di infiltrazioni criminali e lo sfruttamento dei lavoratori, mentre diminuiscono qualità e responsabilità.
A pagarne il prezzo sono anche le piccole e medie imprese. Infine, la prima strategia europea anticorruzione deve fissare regole comuni più ambiziose: trasparenza dell'amministrazione, prevenzione dei conflitti di interesse, responsabilità di chi esercita un potere pubblico. È anche una questione di democrazia. E oggi l'Europa deve dare un segnale forte anche oltre l'Atlantico: chi governa deve servire l'interesse pubblico, non confonderlo con il proprio. Grazie.
Tomáš Zdechovský
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Vážené kolegyně, vážení kolegové. Korupce nás stojí každý rok stovky milionů eur a až 6 % evropského HDP. Korupce je obyčejná krádež našich peněz, peněz našich občanů. Jsou to peníze, které potom chybí na nemocnice, školy, bezpečnost a obranu. A já jsem ji viděl několikrát zblízka, třeba na Slovensku, na misi, kde jsme byli s Výborem pro rozpočtovou kontrolu.
Když jsme přijeli, tak jsme podali Evropské komisi a evropským institucím na 300 případů a podnětů možného zneužití peněz. Podezření přišla ze 76 ze 79 slovenských okresů. Ale už ani toto číslo neplatí. Dokonce dneska máme podezření na korupci a na zneužití peněz v dalších třech okresech.
A ty podezření neustále přibývají. Farmáři nám posílali důkazy o nátlaku. Whistlebloweři mají strach. Novináři mluví o klientelistických sítích a stále se vracela stejná jména a stejné struktury. Kauza Dobytkář, miliony na úplatcích.
Norbert Bödör, obžalovaný v této kauze a v dalších kauzách. Člověk s dlouhodobými vazbami na slovenského premiéra Roberta Fica. Dámy a pánové, my chceme posílit EPPO, my chceme silný OLAF, ale hlavně chceme nulovou toleranci korupci bez ohledu na jméno, na kontakty a na to, kdo právě sedí ve vládě. A proto jsem rád, že chceme vytvořit novou protikorupční infrastrukturu. Děkuju.
Esteban González Pons
You have a blue card from Madame Garcia Hermida-van der Walle. Do you accept it?
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Cseh. I am very happy to hear you say that we want a stronger EPPO, a stronger OLAF. I also think that we should lead by example here in this institution. So for my delegation, it's always very important to give transparency about the money that we spend as members of the European Parliament via the general expenditure allowance.
Raquel García Hermida-Van Der Walle
And I was wondering if you would be willing to work with us so that we increase the transparency of the system of the general expenses allowance by allowing, you know, if we have to save all the receipts and the tickets, allowing controls on that expense. It's very important to our citizens.
Thank you very much for this question. You know that my surname's, second name is one-minute speech and third name is transparency. Also you can find everything how I spend it on my website and you can see also all the meetings what we have it also on my website. Also I totally agree with you. But I really know the situation if I meet whistleblowers that I will not public it.
Or I will spend it some, some time with people from the Slovak police what are now suspected for some reason, for some political pressure, that I will not really put it on, on my transparency register. But I fully agree with you that I'm prepared cooperate with you and continue with you in this cooperation. I hope so that you will join CONT committee and you will be part of them and you will start to work with me.
Thank you, Chair, for allowing me this reaction.
I fully agree with you that transparency rules also with regard to the meetings that we all register or should register needs to be improved. But I repeat my question that was very specifically about the general expenses allowance and including more transparency, not voluntarily, but as a rule in this Parliament on how we spend that money. Thank you.
Tomáš Zdechovský
I will repeat you that I am fully for all the transparency. If you want it, cooperate with me. I'm prepared really after this meetings goes to my office and start to work on a new legislation. But first let me offer you to join the Budgetary Control Committee, then you will understand full context of this committee and you will know that really not only transparency, but we need to have it also responsibility. Because sometimes if you are too transparent, you can really make the problems the people what you will meet.
And especially in my case, I am very often meeting with whistleblowers and I think no one's needs to know which the whistleblowers come from. Thank you very much.
Esteban González Pons
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Thank you. El siguiente orador es el señor Zoido. Su señoría tiene la palabra.
Juan Ignacio Zoido Álvarez
Señoría, los españoles llevamos ocho años sufriendo el gobierno más corrupto de toda la Unión Europea. Ocho años de deterioro democrático y de una demolición institucional orquestada por el Partido Socialista y ejecutada desde Moncloa. Tráfico de influencia, comisiones, contratos amañados, financiación ilegal, prostitutas enchufadas en empresas públicas, joyas millonarias ocultas en cajas fuertes para evadir el fisco, chantaje a los fiscales que investigan la corrupción e incluso contactos con sicarios para eliminar a jueces. Señoría, no se trata de una película de gánster. Se trata del gobierno de Pedro Sánchez.
La historia reciente de Europa no ha conocido un grado de corrupción semejante. Y España necesita urgentemente recuperar la ejemplaridad, la transparencia y la confianza en sus instituciones. Por suerte, en cincuenta días España tiene la oportunidad de elegir un gobierno limpio y decente. Y dentro de cincuenta días, por fin los españoles pondremos fin a estos ocho años de pesadilla.
Comisario, la estrategia anticorrupción no puede esperar. Muchas gracias.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. And we have now reached Catch-the-eye. I am happy to announce that all of you who asked for Catch-the-eye, you will get it. So, but please stick to one minute. And I will begin to give the floor to Mr. López Aguilar, seat 315, please.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Comisario McGraw, la estrategia anticorrupción es inobjetable, coherente con la competencia legisladora penal de este Parlamento Europeo, con la directiva anticorrupción que hemos puesto en vigor, con el paquete contra el blanqueo, con nuestro apoyo a la Fiscalía Europea y a la cooperación judicial penal. Pero la principal ventaja es que sienta un estándar europeo que hace innecesario e impertinente mancillar este debate con diatribas nacionales, como han hecho los diputados del Partido Popular insultando al Gobierno de España. Ayer estuvo aquí el primer ministro portugués, Luís Montenegro, que convocó elecciones acuciado por acusaciones de corrupción en su entorno familiar. Y no se escuchó jamás aquí a ningún socialista portugués traer a este debate el nombre de Portugal ni de su gobierno. Qué diferencia con respecto de las mentiras, bulos, infamias, acusaciones sin fundamento que hemos escuchado esta tarde aquí contra el Gobierno de España, mezcladas con casos judiciales que no tienen ningún alcance europeo.
Por tanto, centremos en la legislación penal europea y hagámonos fuertes contra toda forma de corrupción. Gracias, Presidenta.
And the next speaker is Mr. Andriukaitis, seat 178, please.
Thank you very much.
Vytenis Povilas Andriukaitis
Ačiū, gerbiama posėdžio pirmininke, gerbiamas komisare. Iš tiesų, be galo svarbu pateikiant strategiją, užtikrinti tarpinstitucinį bendradarbiavimą. Man teko būnant komisaru tai patirti. Didžiausias buvo iššūkis tiriant vieną maisto grandinės korupcinį skandalą, tai ryšiai tarp nacionalinių institucijų ir europinių institucijų. Todėl labai atkreipkite dėmesį į tai, nes šiandien ryšių, mainų, informacijos pateikimo sistemos yra labai skirtingos, labai komplikuotos ir strategija turi į tai nukreipti dėmesį, nes tuomet prevencija bus geresnė, kai šalių narių institucijos, prokuratūros, specialieji tyrimų institutai, Europos OLAF'as, prokuratūra ir visi galės iš tikrųjų gauti žymiai efektyvesnį bendradarbiavimą.
Priešingu atveju procesai bus labai ilgi. Man teko tai patirti asmeniškai būnant komisijos sudėtyje. Ačiū labai.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
And the next speaker is Mr. Tynkkynen, seat 210, please.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Arvoisa puhemies, EU kylvää veronmaksajien rahoja korruptoituneisiin maihin miljardikaupalla. Vuoden 2024 tilastot ovat varmistuneet ja ne paljastavat, että EU ja sen jäsenmaat tuuttasivat lähes 90 miljardia euroa kehitysapuun yhden vuoden aikana. Vain pari tuntia sitten tämä sali keskusteli eurooppalaisten elinkustannuskriisistä. Kun tätä rahan lapioimista ympäri maailmaa katsoo, niin ei tunnu paljon tavallisen kansalaisen elinkustannuskriisit painavan. Ja mihin nämä miljardit valuvat?
Kun Maailmanpankki tutki pitkän aikavälin tilastoja, havaittiin seuraavaa. Kun apuriippuvaisille maille kilahtaa avustuksia, samaan aikaan tapahtuu jyrkkä nousu ulkomaisten pankkiparatiisien talletuksissa. Tältä näyttää korruptio. Kun halutaan ajaa korruptiota alas, on ajettava kehitysapu alas. Kiitos.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. And the next speaker is Ms. Sorel, seat 838, please.
Malika Sorel
Chers collègues, 68 % des citoyens européens estiment que la corruption est répandue dans leur pays et plus des trois quarts la jugent présente dans leurs institutions politiques. Cette défiance fragilise nos démocraties car aucune démocratie ne peut vivre sans confiance. Alors, comment accepter que des demandes de levée d'immunité de députés européens formulées par le Parquet européen soient rejetées par le Parlement européen lui-même ? La crédibilité ne se proclame pas, elle se construit par des actes. Mettons fin à cette anomalie.
Les députés ne devraient pas être juges et parties lorsqu'il s'agit de leur propre immunité. L'immunité ne devrait-elle pas tout simplement disparaître ? Une majorité de nos concitoyens doutent de notre capacité à combattre efficacement la corruption. À nous de leur prouver le contraire. L'exemplarité des élus est une exigence démocratique car comme dit le proverbe, le poisson pourrit par la tête.
Chers collègues, soyons intransigeants. Je vous remercie.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms. Grapini, seat 542, please.
Maria Grapini
Doamnă președintă, domnule comisar, sigur, avem o directivă, Directiva Europeană Anticorupție, dar se aplică diferit în cele 27 de state. Se vorbea aici de transparență. Nu credeți că prima dată trebuie să dea dovadă de transparență Comisia și Consiliul ? Am fost raportor pe descărcarea de gestiune a Comisiei.
Doamna președintă a Comisiei a refuzat să ne dea contractele de achiziție pe medicamente. Consiliul refuză să ne dea datele când noi vrem să facem descărcarea de gestiune. Avem comisari care au fost condamnați sau urmăriți penal pentru corupție. Domnule comisar, eu cred că trebuie să gândim în mod foarte serios această strategie. Procesele durează mult.
Ajung să fie presiuni din partea Comisiei cum a fost în țara mea pentru conflict de interese. Comisia a trimis o scrisoare României pentru că a fost un primar din arcul guvernamental condamnat pentru conflict de interese. În așa, în acest fel nu putem schimba percepția cetățenilor care vedeți, șapte din zece cred că este corupție. Și se risipesc bani și avem instituții europene care trebuie să protejeze banii cetățenilor.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr Pérez, seat 774 please.
Alvise Pérez
Muchas gracias, presidenta. Vamos a ver, sanchista, ¿usted de qué cueva sale? ¿Cómo que la corrupción del Partido Socialista no tiene trascendencia europea? ¡Pero si habéis robado fondos europeos! A ver si os enteráis.
Y la corrupción de sumar al rescate de Plus Ultra, diez milloncitos más y nos repartimos a través de República Dominicana para financiar el socialismo internacional, ¿a eso cómo se le llama?
Miren ustedes, yo gano muchísimo dinero en la consultoría privada. Bueno, para usted muchísimo dinero pueden ser diez euros porque no se le conoce en la empresa privada trabajo alguno antes de ser político. Y le puedo decir cuántos políticos de izquierda y de derecha cobran cincuenta, sesenta, setenta mil euros a empresas, algunas muy conocidas, por un desayuno de diez minutos en las que no aportan el más mínimo valor. ¿Porque aquí de qué corrupción hablamos? ¿De la corrupción legal?
¿Hablamos de la corrupción judicial? ¿Hablamos, por ejemplo, de cómo se puede en este plenario discutir unos documentos sobre corrupción cuando ni siquiera sois capaces de mencionar el Qatargate o a Marruecos pagando sobornos a eurodiputados actualmente?
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. And the last speaker in catch-the-eye is Mr. Vigenin, seat 126, please.
Kristian Vigenin
Корупцията е реален проблем. Тя подкопава доверието в демокрацията, отклонява средства от болници, училища, инфраструктура и социални услуги. По най-песимистични оценки, цитирани в проекта за резолюция, цената ѝ за Европейския съюз достига близо един трилион евро годишно. И затова е важно, че ние не говорим само общо за борба с корупцията.
Ние настояваме за реално независими антикорупционни органи с достатъчно хора и средства и изрично предупреждаваме срещу тяхното отслабване или политизиране. Необходима е и по-добра координация между Европейската прокуратура, ОЛАФ, Европол и националните органи. Поставяме специален акцент върху обществените поръчки, където слабият контрол остава проблем в много държави. А за бъдещия европейски бюджет предлагаме националните програми да съдържат конкретни измерими антикорупционни цели. Това е важно и за България.
Не формално изпълнение на реформи, а институции, които работят и европейски средства, които действително стигат до гражданите. Пожелавам успех в писането на стратегията, господин комисар, но всички знаем, че предизвикателство е тя да бъде приложена и да даде резултат. Благодаря.
Thank you very much, dear colleague. So that was the end of catch-the-eye and now I will give the floor back to the Commission and Commissioner McGrath, please, the floor is yours.
Michael McGrath
Thank you, President, and thank you, honorable members. Your contributions are a reminder to me of the strong anti-corruption stance that the Parliament took in the recent negotiations on the anti-corruption directive. And when it comes to the anti-corruption strategy, I know that you want it to be meaningful. I share that ambition with you and I look forward to working with you.
It must have clear priorities and concrete actions. And I think it also has to look at the broader environment in which corruption can sometimes thrive. We have to seek to answer the why question. Why is corruption happening so much in the European Union? We need to be inclusive in our approach, involving not just public authorities, but also the private sector, the civil society, and indeed our international partners.
I want to give you a commitment, on the back of you being a driving force behind the anti-corruption directive, of my full determination and resolve to work with you and ensure the full implementation and enforcement of that directive. And I know I can count on this House to bring the very same level of ambition to this upcoming anti-corruption strategy. We rightly ask Member States, public authorities, and companies to uphold high standards of integrity. And of course, the same must also apply to all of us, including the EU institutions. And that is why the work of the EPPO, of OLAF, the full implementation of the financial regulation is so important.
And I know I will work with you in the context of the ongoing review of the anti-fraud architecture, because preserving public trust in democracy and in our institutions is absolutely crucial. And the upcoming strategy will provide us with another opportunity to show the citizens of the European Union that we take the fight against corruption very seriously at all levels of the European Union. Thank you, colleagues.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, Commissioner. The debate is closed. I have received one motion for a resolution to wind up this debate, and the vote on that will be held tomorrow. And now we are in this very unusual situation that we are a little bit ahead of time, so I will have to suspend the sitting for a couple of minutes before we start with the Commission and Council statements on ensuring promotion of clean energy in European policies. A few minutes and we will be starting again.
Thanks.
So the sitting is resumed and the next item on the agenda is the Council and Commission statements ensuring promotion of clean energy in European policies. And we will begin with the Council and Minister of State with responsibility for European Affairs and Defence, as always, Mr. Byrne, please.
Thomas Byrne
Thanks very much, Vice-President, members and Commissioner Jørgensen. Renewable and clean energy are a clear priority for the Irish Presidency of the Council. This is all the more true now that the European Union's dependency on imported fossil fuels has caused another price shock.
67% of the European Union's energy is coming from fossil fuels, nearly all of which are imported. This makes us all very vulnerable to price shocks, with huge repercussions for households and for industries. The Irish Presidency will therefore emphasize the need for accelerated electrification and deployment of renewable and clean energy to deliver decarbonized and affordable power for all European citizens. And we can rely on a solid legislative framework with legally binding targets and legal instruments to achieve them. With the upcoming post-2030 framework package, we will be looking at how to continue the energy transition in the next decade.
Closer to home, I would like to refer to the work conducted by the Irish Presidency. We are committed to reaching a compromise with you as the Parliament on the grids package by the end of the year. The package has the ambition to strengthen our European energy infrastructure and to contribute to the internal energy market by accelerating the permitting procedures. It's an important step to modernize our grids and to set the path towards clean energy. Yesterday, indeed, we held our second trilogue on the permitting directive here in the Parliament.
And in a week, we will have our second trilogue on the TEN-E regulation.
Rest assured that we are committed to find the best possible solutions on these files. The Irish presidency is also committed to reaching a Council mandate on the network charges regulation by the end of the year so that the Council can start negotiations with you as soon as you are ready. Finally, I would like to insist on the fact that the European Union will need every available technology available on its soil to reach a full clean energy system. With its electrification action plan, the Commission has set an indicative electrification target of 46% in 2040. It means that we need to beef up our action on renewable energy to secure homegrown energy.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much and then I will give the floor to the Commission and Commissioner Dan Jørgensen, please the floor is yours.
Dan Jørgensen
Honorable members, 180 billion euros. According to one estimate, that is how much extreme heat could cost the EU economies this year. That is enough to wipe out the entire economic growth that has been forecast for the EU in 2026.
And that's before we add our fossil fuel bill. Since the war in the Middle East began, we've paid over 100 billion euros extra for imported fossil fuels without receiving a single molecule more. Yet again, Europe is facing a fossil energy crisis. The lives of millions of Europeans are being negatively impacted by high energy bills, by skyrocketing prices at the filling stations. Our companies are struggling to stay competitive.
We know what we must do to get out of this crisis and to avoid future ones. We need to pursue clean energy independence. That is why we are rolling out more renewables. Last year, for the first time, the EU produced more electricity from solar and wind combined than from fossil fuels. At the same time, we are advancing the next generation of nuclear power.
Earlier this year, I presented the Commission's strategy for small modular reactors, and by the end of the year, I will present our fusion strategy.
We are also accelerating innovation and expanding clean alternatives like geothermal energy, sustainable biofuels, and clean hydrogen. Thanks to these efforts, we are producing more clean energy than ever before. But hundreds of gigawatts are still waiting to be captured, connected, and deployed. Between now and the end of the year, we will be advancing key pieces of legislation to unlock this energy, and the Parliament has a vital role to play. There is our grids package.
With this package, we aim to roll out our grids at a faster pace, and we aim to plan our energy networks in a way that is more strategic, more rational, and more cost-effective. I welcome the good cooperation of the Parliament on this file, and I hope we can secure a strong and ambitious agreement by the end of the year. Discussions on the next MFF are also progressing, and the outcome of these negotiations will have a big impact on our energy system. The Commission has proposed a five-fold increase for the energy budget of the Connecting Europe Facility, and national and regional partnership plans will also provide vast opportunities to promote clean energy.
If we want to fully connect our grids and to finally complete our energy union, this funding is of paramount importance. It is therefore essential to maintain the ambition of the Commission's proposal. Finally, let me also mention our electrification action plan. A key part of this plan, our proposal on network charges and energy taxation, is currently before the Parliament. This proposal also aims to bring down electricity bills, to encourage flexibility, and to make clean electricity the most attractive options for homes, businesses, and industries.
I know that these priorities are shared by the Parliament, and I look forward to working with you all to deliver on these priorities and to realize Europe's clean energy potential. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Commissioner, and we will start with the group speakers, beginning with Mr. Bellamy on behalf of EPP for two minutes, please.
François-Xavier Bellamy
Merci, Madame la Présidente. Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues. Ce débat est fondamental au moment où, vous l'avez dit, Monsieur le Commissaire, notre continent connaît une crise énergétique absolument majeure. Et face à cette crise, notre devoir est d'utiliser tous les outils possibles pour reconquérir la souveraineté de notre approvisionnement, pour faire baisser les prix et pour décarboner les sources d'énergie nécessaires à la vie de notre économie.
La Commission a-t-elle une seule parole sur cette question ? Bien sûr, nous l'avons entendu depuis le début de ce mandat, il y a enfin, enfin une reconnaissance du fait que toutes les sources d'énergie, y compris l'électricité nucléaire, seront nécessaires, et vous l'avez dit à l'instant, pour affronter cette crise et pour reconstruire l'élan de l'économie européenne. Mais comment ne pas voir que nous ne sommes pas encore sortis des discriminations du passé lorsque, dans quelques semaines, la Commission s'apprête à publier un prochain objectif pour 2040 qui fixerait de nouveau un impératif aux États d'énergies renouvelables uniquement ? Le seul et unique but doit être de construire un maximum de sources d'énergie bas carbone. Tous les mix énergétiques qui ont privilégié le renouvelable ont montré qu'ils étaient condamnés à subir les conséquences de l'intermittence, de la dépendance aux importations gazières, parfois au charbon, qui sont nécessaires pour équilibrer l'intermittence des énergies éoliennes et solaires.
Et Monsieur le Commissaire, notre message aujourd'hui est très clair. La seule et unique, le seul et unique objectif que nous devons poursuivre ensemble, c'est celui qui consiste à décarboner notre énergie, y compris bien sûr avec l'énergie nucléaire.
Un objectif renouvelable qui imposerait à un pays comme la France d'arrêter ses centrales nucléaires pour continuer de développer partout des éoliennes et des panneaux solaires serait totalement aberrant. Et la vérité, c'est que ce débat d'aujourd'hui est en lui-même un symptôme. Nous avons tenté de mettre cette discussion à l'agenda du Parlement européen en proposant que nous parlions ensemble de l'énergie bas carbone. Mais pour certains groupes politiques sur la gauche, l'énergie bas carbone veut dire l'énergie nucléaire et c'était déjà scandaleux d'en parler. Nous nous trouvons donc à parler d'énergie propre.
Énergie propre, énergie décarbonée, c'est tous les outils qu'il faut utiliser avec enfin la neutralité technologique dont l'Europe a besoin pour pouvoir sauver la planète et sauver son économie. Merci beaucoup.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Chahim on behalf of S&D for one minute please.
Mohammed Chahim
Dank u voorzitter, dank u commissaris. We hebben het gewoon lastig denk ik als Europa. Dat moeten we beseffen. Het merendeel van onze energie importeren wij. En dan moeten we begrijpen dat het alternatief betekent dat we meer Europese energie moeten gaan opwekken voor onze onafhankelijkheid en voor onze portemonnee.
En dat is of je het nu wilt of niet, dat is windenergie, dat is zon, dat is waterkracht, dat is geothermie. Dat moet de basis zijn voor die betaalbare toekomst.
Want als gewone mensen hun energierekening niet kunnen betalen, dan verliezen we onze steun, dan verliezen we hun steun. En als mensen investeren in warmtepompen, in zonnepanelen en bijvoorbeeld een elektrische auto, dan moeten we dat waarderen. Want zij nemen hun verantwoordelijkheid om die vraag te veranderen, de vraag naar fossiel te doen dalen. En in plaats van hen te belonen, krijgen deze voorlopers te maken met stijgende netwerkkosten. En dat is niet goed.
Dat is de omgekeerde wereld. Laten we die koplopers niet afremmen met hogere kosten, maar juist versnellen met een eerlijke energierekening. Ik heb alle vertrouwen dat onze commissaris dat gaat regelen. Dank u wel.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Borchia on behalf of Patriots for one and a half minute please.
Paolo Borchia
Sì grazie, grazie Presidente. Ma partiamo dal presupposto, dal contesto che vede un'Unione Europea fanalino di coda in termini di generazione di PIL tra quelle che sono le regioni economiche avanzate a livello globale. Quindi Commissario, mi sembra evidente che ci sia qualcosa che non vada e in economia quando qualcosa non va si passa anche da politiche energetiche che magari non sono ottimali. L'obiettivo dell'elettrificazione al 46% ad oggi è lontano dalla realtà per un tema di infrastrutture e anche per un tema di generazione. Ci sono tanti obiettivi ma pochi allacciamenti.
Ricordiamo che ad oggi ci sono 16 stati che hanno in coda dei progetti per 120 gigawattora, progetti in lista d'attesa, progetti fermi. Io vedo un'autonomia energetica, quello che deve essere il nostro obiettivo primario, in pericolo perché la dipendenza dalle tecnologie e dall'importazione di materie prime purtroppo è una fase che in questo momento storico non stiamo riuscendo a superare. Poi bene finalmente le aperture per quanto riguarda il nucleare, ma io vi invito ad evitare le guerre al gas. Noi abbiamo gli stoccaggi al minimo, almeno per quanto riguarda gli ultimi 15 anni. Abbiamo pressione sui prezzi e il rischio è che per questo inverno paradossalmente il tema non sia quello legato alla scarsità del gas ma il prezzo a cui l'Europa lo dovrà pagare per averlo.
Grazie.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much and the next speaker is Mr. Obajtek on behalf of ECR for one minute please.
Czysta energia to nie tylko energia odnawialna z wiatru czy słońca. Przemysł i gospodarka potrzebują energii 24 godziny na dobę. Dlatego Europa musi wspierać atom, a szczególnie flotę własnych SMR-ów. Również, proszę państwa, inwestujmy w biogaz. Rolnicy nie tylko muszą produkować żywność, ale i mogą produkować energię.
I wreszcie geotermia. Mamy pod ziemią naturalne bogactwa, z których trzeba wreszcie korzystać. Łączmy konwencjonalne źródła, duży atom, SMR-y, biogaz. Na nich budujmy stabilne źródła. Mniej ideologii, więcej własnej, taniej, stabilnej energii.
Dziękuję bardzo.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Mr. Grudler on behalf of Renew for one minute, please.
Christophe Grudler
Erreur stratégique. Ce ne sont pas mes mots, ce sont ceux d'Ursula von der Leyen sur son choix de tourner le dos au nucléaire. Aujourd'hui, nous traversons un nouveau choc énergétique. Les factures flambent à nouveau après la guerre en Ukraine, le détroit d'Ormuz et peut-être demain un GNL américain transformé en arme politique. N'avons-nous toujours pas retenu la leçon, chers collègues?
Speaker 281
N'opposons pas une technologie à une autre. Nous avons besoin de toutes les énergies qui décarbonent, renouvelables, nucléaires, sur un pied d'égalité.
Christophe Grudler
Le cadre post-2030 doit mettre fin à des années de discrimination contre le nucléaire, une discrimination qui a scellé notre dépendance. Il ne nous faut pas une énième cible renouvelable, mais une cible d'énergie décarbonée et une priorité absolue : électrifier massivement. Notre électricité est déjà largement bas carbone. La solution est donc là, sous nos yeux. À nous de la rendre réelle.
Ne répétons pas d'erreurs stratégiques. Portons une directive énergie propre, directive décarbonation.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Bloss for one minute on behalf of the Greens. Please.
Vielen Dank. 13.000 Euro. So viel zahlt die EU für Öl und Gas aus dem Ausland pro Sekunde meiner Rede. Und liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, wenn meine Minute hier vorbei ist, dann ist es schon eine Dreiviertelmillion Euro weg, überwiesen an Trump und Co. Und was machen Europas Regierungen?
Deutschland will 35 Milliarden Euro für neue Gaskraftwerke ausgeben, 10 Gigawatt, und zahlen sollen das die Stromkunden.
Und Spanien baut 14 Gigawatt Sonne und Wind ans Netz in diesem im letzten Jahr und Überraschung, die hohen Preise von Trump und Putin kommen bei denen nicht an. Die Uhr tickt, jede Sekunde kommt uns teuer zu stehen. Herzlichen Dank.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Tamburrano for one minute on behalf of the Left Group, please.
Dario Tamburrano
Colleghi, Consiglio, Commissione, credo che per promuovere davvero l'energia pulita dovremmo applicare senz'altri ritardi le norme già vigenti. Un decennio fa, nell'ottava legislatura, abbiamo ad esempio introdotto la flessibilità per consumare quando le rinnovabili producono, remunerando cittadini e imprese per il servizio alla rete, e poi l'autoconsumo, le comunità energetiche, la partecipazione attiva dei consumatori, ma troppe opportunità restano ancora bloccate negli Stati membri e a livello europeo. Nel 2017 ero relatore del regolamento sull'etichettatura energetica. Vi inserimmo gli apparecchi intelligenti per favorire la flessibilità e l'uso delle rinnovabili. Nove anni dopo, quella previsione attende ancora piena attuazione.
Commissione e Consiglio dovrebbero dare risposte chiare o un calendario vincolante. Questa hybris, questa continua iperproduzione legislativa non è un vantaggio.
Nuove norme e cambi di rotta contraddittori confondono cittadini e investitori. Non possiamo lamentare i limiti delle rinnovabili lasciando inutilizzati gli strumenti già previsti per superarli. Le norme ci sono, iniziamo a far funzionare quelle mentre scriviamo le nuove. Lo avessimo già fatto con decisione, oggi non saremmo in questa situazione. Grazie.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Buchheit for one minute on behalf of ESN, please.
Markus Buchheit
Dankeschön, Frau Präsidentin. Liebe Kollegen, die Kommission will ihren Anteil von Strom am Endenergieverbrauch bis 2040 verdoppeln. Europäische Industriebetriebe zahlen schon heute ungefähr doppelt so viel für Strom wie ihre amerikanische Konkurrenz. Und was das bedeutet, das sieht man in der Chemie. Seit 2022 wurde die Schließung von rund 9 % der europäischen Produktionskapazität angekündigt.
20.000 direkte Arbeitsplätze sind weg. Neuinvestitionen gehen gegen null. Auch Ihr Vorzeigeprojekt der grüne Stahl scheitert. ArcelorMittal hat in Bremen und Eisenhüttenstadt auf 1,3 Milliarden, pardon, Euro Fördergelder verzichtet, weil der Strom dort schlicht und ergreifend zu teuer ist. Neue Elektroöfen baut der Konzern dort, wo Strom planbar ist, etwa in Frankreich, wo Kernkraft im Netz ist.
Mit diesem Vorstoß wollen Sie saubere Energie in jeden europäischen Politikbereich einbauen. Für die Betriebe heißt das mehr CO2-Kosten, mehr Nachweise, mehr Auflagen. Chemie und Stahl gehen zuerst, Maschinenindustrie und Autos hängen an ihnen. Die Schornsteine stehen dann in China, die Arbeitslosen bleiben hier bei uns in Europa. Das ist Ihre missverstandene Klimapolitik.
Thank you. And I will now open up for the blue card option and invite you to use it. And the next speaker is Mr. Warborn. He's on his way and you are allowed to speak 1 minute and 30 seconds, please.
Jörgen Warborn
Tack, fru talman. Senast när Sverige styrdes av socialdemokrater och miljöpartister så valde man att aktivt stänga ner fullt fungerande kärnkraft. Resultatet blev mindre fossilfri el och högre elpriser. Tappet blev så stort att vi helt i onödan fick elda olja för att hålla igång elsystemet. 140.000 liter i timman helt i onödan.
Nu har Sverige med den moderatledda regeringen i spetsen vänt på den här skutan och lagt grunden för ny kärnkraft.
Resten av Europa borde göra samma sak. Vi behöver en teknikneutrala EU-fonder som gynnar all ren energi. Vi behöver en europeisk satsning på de små modulära reaktorerna så att Europa leder utvecklingen istället för att halka efter. Och vi behöver snabbare tillstånd så att reaktorer som har godkänts i ett land inte behöver börja om från noll i nästa. Kärnkraften är ren energi, det är dags att EU behandlar den som det.
Tack så mycket. The next speaker is Ms Penkova for one minute, please.
Tsvetelina Penkova
Госпожо председател, уважаеми колеги, господин комисар, за европейската индустрия цената на електроенергията определя дали ще има нови инвестиции или затворени производства. Развитието на чиста енергия, която включва възобновяеми източници и ядрена енергетика, трябва да носи реално конкурентно предимство. Това лято България показа как се постига това. Системите за съхранение запазваха слънчевата енергия за вечерните часове, когато търсенето е по-голямо, а цените са по-високи.
Включването на рекорден брой батерии към енергийната ни система намали цените на тока с близо 40% през летните месеци в региона ни. Българският опит доказва как чистата енергия и новите технологии създават условия за икономически растеж. Като основен преговарящ по регламента за трансевропейската енергийна инфраструктура, настоявам да подкрепим този потенциал с модерни мрежи и по-добра свързаност. Нашата задача е да гарантираме ниски цени, но това да не е сезонно явление, а трайно предимство за европейската индустрия и гражданите. Благодаря ви.
Thank you very much. I don't see Mr. Nikolić, so we will continue with Mr. Krutílek for one minute, please.
Ondřej Krutílek
Madam President, dear Commissioner, clean energy is not only solar and wind, it's every low-carbon source including nuclear. I welcome the fact that nuclear is now in Brussels taken into account and we are speaking openly much more about nuclear nowadays. Ursula von der Leyen even called the move away from nuclear a strategic mistake. I agree. But the rules are several steps behind the rhetoric.
In the EU taxonomy which is key for investors nuclear is still only a transitional activity with a deadline in 2045. So I call on the Commission: give nuclear exactly the same status as the other clean sources. Just like geothermal plants, nuclear power plants produce electricity here in Europe, day and night, in every weather. In a turbulent world, they help us defend our independence. Thank you.
Ondřej Krutílek
Thank you very much. There is a blue card from Mr. Sieper. Do you want to take the blue card? Please, Mr. Sieper, seat 59.
Lukas Sieper
Thank you, colleague, for accepting the blue card. I am with you in the fact that the way we went out of nuclear in itself is a strategic mistake. At the same time, I think it was right because it's not a long-term eternal solution because there is still pollution. My question to you is, if we go down this path again, where do we put the power plants and where do we put the waste? I am aware that these problems are smaller than 20 years ago, but they still exist.
Would you be willing to have a plant or a waste place in your own constituency? Thank you.
Well, I will answer openly.
Ondřej Krutílek
I will answer openly. I will agree to have my nuclear power plant in my garden because I think that it is a concentrated source of energy compared to let's say solar and wind. And I think it's, and I don't only think, and it is true that it is non-intermittent source of energy which we need for a base load for our industries. And I think that of course there are some pros and cons, but if I compare this all together, then nuclear and also geothermal which I've mentioned are here to help us much more than then you know focusing only on solar and wind.
Lukas Sieper
Thank you colleague for your reply and I'm happy to hear that you would put a nuclear power plant in your garden and as far as I'm informed from the technical development that would actually be possible quite soon from the size. But then let me extend my question again. Would you do the same with the waste dump?
And would you also go to your citizens in your constituency and explain to them that the nuclear waste has to be dumped in their gardens, in their homes, in their constituency? Thank you.
To be frank, when I take into account all the security rules which are in place and which are also in the taxonomy, I think that they are enough secure to use nuclear and also to put waste in a proper way underground to have safer environment in whole Europe.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Oetjen for one minute, please.
Jan-Christoph Oetjen
Frau Präsidentin, Herr Minister, Herr Kommissar, ja, wir müssen unabhängig werden als Europäer, weil es die Frage von Freiheit, unabhängig von Importen von fossiler Energie, aber unabhängig auch von kritischen Rohstoffen, die von China getrustet werden. Und ja, wir müssen schneller werden im Ausbau von Energien, im Ausbau von Netzen, und deswegen müssen unsere Genehmigungsverfahren deutlich beschleunigt werden. Und ich unterstütze deswegen auch die Vorschläge der Kommission, dass wir hier richtig Gas geben an dieser Stelle.
Ich glaube auch, dass wir den Emissionshandel stärken müssen, denn der Emissionshandel ist das marktwirtschaftliche Instrument, verehrte Kolleginnen und Kollegen, dafür, dass wir dekarbonisieren und dass wir unsere Energie fit machen für diese Zeit, wo wir nicht mehr abhängig sind von Importen von fossilen Energien. Ich möchte aber als Verkehrspolitiker auch sagen, wir brauchen auch eine Strategie für flüssige Kraftstoffe. Warum? Weil wir die brauchen im Luftverkehrsbereich, im maritimen Bereich, und ich habe den Eindruck, dass wir da manchmal etwas schwimmen in dieser Frage. Deswegen arbeiten Sie bitte dran, Herr Kommissar, dass wir eine Strategie für flüssige Kraftstoffe bekommen, damit wir resilient sind auch in Fragen von Versorgungssicherheit.
Und am Ende ist es auch eine Frage von Verteidigungsfähigkeit. Vielen Dank.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms. Lövin, for one minute please.
Isabella Lövin
Tack fru talman, herr kommissionär. Politiker på högerkanten försöker hävda att de höjda levnadskostnaderna och höjda elpriser är klimatomställningens fel, men inget kunde vara mer fel. Det är den förnybara energin som är den billigaste energin, och därför måste vi fortsätta bygga ut sol- och vindkraft snabbt. Men det finns några som har förstått hur billig den här energin är, och det är Google, Microsoft, Meta och andra stora techbolag som står på kö för att bygga stora datahallar där den billiga elen finns, bland annat i Sverige där jag bor.
Den här utvecklingen måste vi ta på allvar i det här huset. För oss gröna är det självklart att vi ska nå målet om 100 % förnybart och hushållen och industrin ska gå först. På så sätt håller vi nere elräkningarna, hjälper industrin i omställning och säkerställer att jobben stannar kvar här. Och om vi tillåter teknikbolagen att etablera sig utan motkrav och utan hänsyn till hushållen och industrin så riskerar vi en smäll längre fram, och det är oacceptabelt för oss gröna. Tack så mycket.
Christel Schaldemose
Tack så mycket. And the next speaker is Mr. Günther for one minute, please.
Die Klimakrise erfordert radikale Klimaschutzmaßnahmen. Doch ein Wandel, bei dem die arbeitende Bevölkerung die Zeche zahlt, während die Umweltverschmutzer geschützt werden, ist kein gerechter Wandel und daher zum Scheitern verurteilt. Wir müssen die Emissionen tiefgreifend und schnell senken. Die Last darf jedoch nicht auf diejenigen fallen, die am wenigsten in der Lage sind, ihre Lebensumstände zu ändern. Ein Mieter kann seine Heizungsanlage nicht einfach austauschen.
Martin Günther
Eine Familie mit geringem Einkommen kann nicht einfach ein neues Elektroauto kaufen und ihr Haus sanieren.
Wir müssen erschwingliche Alternativen bereitstellen und nicht nur einen Preis für Umweltverschmutzung festlegen. Und wenn die Industrie im Namen des Wandels öffentliche Gelder und kostenlose Emissionszertifikate gewährt, müssen die Beschäftigten im Gegenzug etwas dafür erhalten: echte und messbare Emissionssenkungen, gute Arbeitsplätze, Weiterbildung, Investitionen und eine bedeutende Rolle für die Gewerkschaften. Die Einnahmen aus dem Emissionshandelssystem sollten den Haushalten helfen, ihre Energiekosten zu senken und auf Elektroantriebe umzusteigen, und nicht einfach die Industrie subventionieren. Klimaschutz muss radikal sein, deshalb muss er auch gerecht sein. Die Menschen, die am wenigsten zu dieser Krise beigetragen haben, dürfen nicht dazu gezwungen werden, dafür zu bezahlen.
Roberto Vannacci
Gasolio a 2 euro e 25 al litro e prezzi dell'energia elettrica ai massimi danni. E noi stiamo ancora parlando di energia pulita? Ma l'unica cosa che avete pulito, signor Commissario, sono i portafogli dei nostri operai, agricoltori, pescatori e cittadini europei.
Ed è la stessa Commissione europea a certificare che dal 1994 le emissioni globali di gas serra non hanno fatto altro che aumentare inesorabilmente. E l'Europa è l'unico continente che ha deciso deliberatamente di castrarsi in nome di un ambientalismo ideologico e aprendo le proprie porte alla Cina, svendendole la nostra sovranità industriale. Avete fallito. E continuate a fallire oggi, signor Commissario, concedendo flessibilità economica solamente per energia verde e armi, che non mi sembra siano tanto ecologiche. L'unica energia di cui abbiamo bisogno, signor Commissario, è quella disponibile e conveniente.
Ed è proprio a quella che ci chiedono oggi a gran voce i cittadini che ci hanno eletto. Grazie.
Mr. Vannicci, there is a blue card. I have two blue cards. So first, Mr. Sieper, and you are not allowed to take it twice, and then I take Mr. Fulsang afterwards. Please, Mr. Sieper.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay. Thank you, sir, for accepting the blue card. I hope this time if you upload this on social media you don't put me in the Social Democrat group like last time. I'm a member of Renew, not of the S&D.
I corrected it.
Thank you. Sir, you spoke a lot about the fact that the energy prices rose and then you made the connection to the green transition and the green energy. Why are you ignoring the war that Russia started?
Why are you ignoring the war between Iran and America? And is this not the main reason for the rise in gas prices instead of the green transition? And should we not talk about this if you want to make this connection instead of accusing the Commission of doing its job of actually protecting the climate? Thank you.
Roberto Vannacci
No, io non sto ignorando assolutamente nulla. Io sto prendendo in considerazione tutto. Infatti, proprio Draghi disse nel suo rapporto che le tensioni geopolitiche, ma il fatto stesso che l'Europa abbia rinunciato ad importare il gas dal suo più grande provider, che è la Russia, sono la causa del decadimento di produttività e competitività dell'Europa. Però le faccio un esempio. Prendiamo gli Stati Uniti d'America, che non stanno soffrendo né la guerra con la Russia né il problema di Hormuz.
L'energia elettrica costa nel paese dove, nello stato dove si produce più energia verde, 30 centesimi a kilowattora, in California, mentre in Texas costa 14 centesimi a kilowattora e il Texas è lo stato che produce più energia da combustibili fossili.
Thank you. So, Mr. Sieber, I will not allow you to get back, but I will give the floor for a blue card to Mr. Fuglsang, if you allow me.
Niels Fuglsang
Do I need a translation? English? All right.
Mr. Vannacci, you talk about expensive fuel prices and expensive energy prices, but don't you know that gas and oil is more expensive than renewable energy? And by the way, don't you know that 98% of the gas and oil we consume here in Europe we import from abroad? We don't have the gas and oil here in Europe, so we send all the money to Donald Trump, to the Middle East, and we used to send them to Putin. Isn't it better to invest in our own energy here? And why will you not invest in our own economy instead of sending all the money abroad?
Roberto Vannacci
Guardi, abbiamo fatto questa domanda la volta scorsa. Mi ripeterò per risponderle visto che non l'ha capito. Intanto la fortuna della Germania dalla quale lei proviene credo è stata data proprio dal basso costo del gas che è stato caratterizzato sin da quando l'ha importato in maniera massiccia dalla Russia. Secondariamente, vede, le energie rinnovabili sono rinnovabili solo per nome perché le terre rare, i metalli e le sostanze che sono necessarie per trasformare l'energia cinetica del vento e delle radiazioni solari in energia elettrica ci provengono dalla Cina che le produce al 70%. Quindi lei non diventa sovrano, ma sposta il problema della dipendenza da un continente all'altro.
Thank you very much. So we will continue with the speakers list. No, no more blue cards.
Fidias Panayiotou
And the next speaker is Mr. Panayiotou for one minute, please.
The government of my country, Cyprus, has failed its citizens and now we are paying one of the highest bills of electricity. For years, the Cyprus government has not managed to import natural gas and it has failed to get enough batteries for renewable energy. So basically, we are now dependent on fossil fuels. This means that 20% of electricity bills goes just to pay CO2 emissions through the EU emissions trading system. Don't get me wrong, protecting the planet is extremely important, but during this crisis, we must protect first our citizens.
I ask the EU to step in and try to fix this problem made by our government by giving us an emergency relief. We need to pay less for CO2 emissions during this energy crisis because Cypriot citizens can just not afford it. Thank you.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Weixler for one and a half minutes, please.
Andrea Wechsler
Ursula von der Leyen hat in diesem Haus zu Recht gesagt: Wer fossile Energie importiert, importiert auch die Krisen und Preisschocks dieser Welt. Und deswegen hat die Kommission wichtige Schritte auf den Weg gebracht. Aber unser Problem ist inzwischen nicht mehr nur die Richtung, auch wenn wir noch einen weiten Weg zu gehen haben bei der Anerkennung von grünen Molekülen. Unser Problem ist insbesondere das Tempo. Der Electrification Action Plan kam Monate zu spät als angekündigt.
Auf den neuen europäischen Rahmen für Versorgungssicherheit warten wir noch immer. Und bei Wasserstoff warten Investoren immer noch auf verlässliche Bedingungen. Und die europäische Fusionsstrategie ist angekündigt, während andere Weltregionen längst vorangehen. Und bei den Netzen sind wir immer noch in den Verhandlungen des Grids Packages und wichtige Network Codes sind noch nicht fertig. Dabei warten bereits heute sechsmal mehr erneuerbare Kapazitäten auf einen Netzanschluss, als wir in einem Jahr neu bauen.
Europa hat also viele richtige Pläne. Aber jetzt müssen aus den Plänen endlich Leitungen werden und aus Strategien Investitionen und aus Ankündigungen endlich bezahlbare Energie. Also: weniger ankündigen, mehr umsetzen und jetzt gemeinsam Gas geben beim Tempo und nicht beim Gasverbrauch.
Thank you very much. Og næste taler er hr. Fuglsang i et minut, værsgo.
Niels Fuglsang
Tak formand, kommissær, kollegaer. We're looking at a very expensive winter. It's not only because we need to buy Christmas presents for our loved ones, it's because we're paying a high price in energy and a high price in electricity in particular. And some colleagues here, they're talking about that the solution is to start importing gas from Russia or start importing more oil and gas from the Middle East. It's absolutely crazy to my mind because we don't have the oil and gas ourselves.
We need to import all of it. 98% of the gas and oil that we consume in Europe, we import from abroad. Why not invest in our own renewable energy? We should do that and by the way, we should also make sure that the permitting when you want to build a set up a wind turbine or transmission grid, that it becomes much faster than today. We're right now negotiating a permitting reform making sure that we can get the wind turbines and the grids at a much faster pace.
We need to work together on that on our own renewable energy rather than sending the money abroad. Thank you.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much Mr. Fuglsang. There is a blue card Mr. Fuglsang, Niels, there is a blue card, do you want to take it? It's from Mr. Mularczyk, seat 590 please.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk
Dziękuję za przyjęcie tego pytania. Tu kolega poseł zwracał uwagę, że domaga się od Komisji Europejskiej przyspieszenia inwestycji w zieloną energię. Panie pośle, pochodzę z Małopolski, to jest południe Polski i tam w jednej gminie Lisia Góra pod Tarnowem wójt postanowił zbudować wielki magazyn energii, wielkie farmy fotowoltaiczne wbrew woli mieszkańców. Mieszkańcy dzisiaj odwołują tego wójta, ponieważ Unia Europejska do dzisiaj nie zagwarantowała żadnych warunków technicznych ani bezpieczeństwa takich inwestycji, panie pośle. Czy ma pan tego świadomość?
Niels Fuglsang
Yes, thank you, colleague. I don't know about the specific case in Poland that you're referring to, but I do know that Poland is investing a big amount in renewable energy. And I think that that is indeed a very wise decision. I think that when you do this, when you invest in renewable energy, when you build out solar panels, wind energy, other forms of renewable energy, you need to make sure that the local communities, that they get a share of the benefits. That it's not only the big multinational companies that earn profits, but it's the local communities that should benefit.
And that we should work on also in the permitting reform. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Gyürk for one minute, please.
András Gyürk
Köszönöm a szót, elnök asszony! Az energiaárak egyre elviselhetetlenebb terhet jelentenek az európai embereknek. Az elmúlt fél évben a földgáz ára több mint 50, a villamos energiáé és a nyersolajé 25 százalékkal nőtt. Ezért több és olcsóbb energiára van szükség. Először, ahol indokolt, azonnal meg kell kezdeni a biztonsági készletek fokozott felszabadítását.
Ilyen például a dízelpiac: az elszabadult dízelárak nem terhelhetőek kizárólag a fuvarozókra, a gazdákra. Másodszor, fel kell pörgetni az energiatermelési infrastruktúra-létesítmények fejlesztését. Ehhez szükséges az engedélyezési eljárások felgyorsítása és a könnyen elérhető pénzügyi támogatások kialakítása. Harmadszor, üres beszéd helyett végre az energiát érintő adók csökkentésére van szükség. Az első lépés ehhez a benzin és dízel jövedéki adókulcsának 50 százalékos csökkentése kell, hogy legyen.
Ezügyben mi, patrióták, levélben fordultunk von der Leyen asszonyhoz. Több és olcsóbb energia, alacsonyabb adók: ez kell, hogy legyen a célunk. Köszönöm.
Speaker 306
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. van Dijk for one minute, please.
Kris Van Dijck
Dank u, voorzitter. Commissievoorzitter von der Leyen was in haar State of the Union zeer duidelijk: kernenergie is schone energie, en u, commissaris, trad haar daarstraks bij. De Europese bocht ten aanzien van kernenergie is eindelijk ingezet, maar is nog niet helemaal genomen, want het concrete Europese beleid blijft er nog een beetje achterop hinkelen. Daarom vandaag drie oproepen. Voor eerst: stel Europese fondsen ook open voor kernenergie.
Het volgende MFK moet expliciet openstaan voor alle net-zero technologieën. Ten tweede: laat bij de herziening van de richtlijn hernieuwbare energie kernenergie meetellen voor de streefcijfers voor die hernieuwbare elektriciteit. Het is immers koolstofarme elektriciteitsvoorziening. En drie: creëer op die manier investeringszekerheid.
Actieplannen en woorden volstaan niet meer, nu is het nood aan concrete wetgeving waaraan wij met overtuiging willen meewerken. En meneer, aan meneer Pieper, ik heb voor u naar aanleiding van uw blauwe kaart nog een uitnodiging. U mag bij mij komen kijken hoe wij nucleair afval opslaan.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, dear colleague. Thank you. Mr. Van Dijck, there is a blue card from Ms. Kirscha, seat 501, please. Ms. Kirscha, seat 501, please.
In German, yes.
Vielen Dank fürs Annehmen der Frage. Und ich habe eben die konkrete Frage zur Lagerung des Atommülls. Was ist Ihr Vorschlag, weil diese Frage ist ja eigentlich noch ungeklärt?
Kris Van Dijck
Wel, ik heb voor jullie allen twee uitnodigingen. Vooreerst, volgende week op 13 oktober zullen burgemeesters van Europese gemeenten, van lokale besturen die te maken hebben met nucleaire industrie, zowel kerncentrales als afvalopslag, zullen in ons Europees Parlement komen getuigen van hoe ze dat aanpakken. En ook bij mij in mijn gemeente, waar wij het Belgisch nucleair afval tijdelijk en het laag zelfs definitief opslaan, u bent welkom om te komen kijken, zelfs hoe we dat doen met aanvaarding van de bevolking. U bent welkom.
Emma Ytterell
Thank you. This is a 50 euro bill. If I were to stack this amount of money on top of each other by the end of my speech, it would have reached the height of me. This is the underfunding gap, 420 billion euros each year. If we continue stacking in nine minutes, it would have reached the ceiling of this beautiful building.
That is how much we are underinvesting it. And it tells us we are not spending our money in the right way. And I hear you. Some of you want to have this discussion about renewables versus nuclear. So okay, go on, let's have this discussion.
But tomorrow, let's face reality, start doing the work. We need to spend all our money into both of these technologies, because otherwise we will have a really large pile to find funding and much higher energy prices that we will face. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Kaliňák for one minute, please.
Erik Kaliňák
Dámy a páni, európsky priemysel dnes nie je konkurencieschopný, lebo máme oproti USA a Číne dvakrát drahší plyn. Podľa Komisie preto treba vo výrobe, vykurovaní a doprave prejsť na elektrinu. Tá je však dnes ešte trikrát drahšia ako spomínaný plyn. Zachrániť nás má masívna výstavba elektrární z obnoviteľných zdrojov, teda solárnych panelov a veterných turbín. Lenže tie narážajú na praktický problém, že približne 40 % distribučných sietí v Európskej únii má viac ako 40 rokov a tento nový výkon by neuniesli.
Ich modernizácia si vyžaduje takmer 600 miliárd, čo je nereálne, keďže aj z 300-miliardového REPowerEU, čo mal byť taký pomyselný prvý krok, sa za štyri roky vyčerpalo sotva 18 %. Keď však Komisiu upozorníte, že ich vízie a realita sú dva naozaj veľmi odlišné svety, začnú kázať o potrebe nezávislosti od fosílnych palív. Lenže Európa dnes dováža 57 % elektriny zo zahraničia a pri ťažbe a spracovaní kritických surovín pre tie vysnívané zelené technológie sme závislí na 100 %, takže nie, o budovaní nezávislosti naozaj nemôže byť žiadna reč. Ďakujem pekne.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Ms. Pereira for one and a half minutes, please.
100 mil milhões de euros. É este o preço que a Europa pagou a mais este ano em combustíveis fósseis por causa do conflito no Médio Oriente. Volto a repetir: 100 mil milhões de euros. Dinheiro europeu a financiar instabilidade que não controlamos, dependência que não queremos e uma fatura que as famílias não merecem pagar. Mas é possível fazer diferente.
Lídia Pereira
Portugal mostra que há outro caminho. Até agosto, 74 % da eletricidade produzida em Portugal veio de fontes renováveis. O vento, o sol e a água, com o nosso conhecimento e inovação, estão a transformar a economia portuguesa, a baixar os custos e a criar emprego. A energia produzida na Europa que poderia ser consumida não só em Portugal, se já tivéssemos as interconexões energéticas a funcionar. Numa Europa que demasiadas vezes chega tarde, na energia limpa somos ainda líderes globais.
Não podemos desperdiçar esta vantagem. O e-SAF, o combustível sustentável para a aviação, é o próximo passo. Precisamos de uma autonomia estratégica que não dependa do Golfo Pérsico. Mas a transição energética não pode ficar nos discursos deste Parlamento.
Tem de chegar à fatura de cada família europeia. Cada euro investido em energia limpa é um euro que fica na Europa, que cria emprego, que reduz a dependência e que protege os cidadãos da volatilidade dos mercados fósseis. A escolha é simples: continuamos a pagar a fatura dos outros ou investimos no nosso próprio futuro.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. González Casares for one minute, please.
Nicolás González Casares
¿Cuántas evidencias más necesitan los negacionistas climáticos o los vasallos de Trump? Nuestra dependencia fósil la pagamos doblemente: con miles de vidas perdidas por el cambio climático y continuas crisis que destrozan nuestra economía y nuestra competitividad. Europa necesita una trayectoria ambiciosa con un objetivo vinculante de renovables para 2040, acompañado de objetivos de eficiencia energética y de electrificación. Hay que dar certidumbre a los inversores en tecnologías verdes. Las renovables son la opción más limpia, más barata y más rápida.
El sol, el viento, el agua, la geotermia, el hidrógeno, el hidrógeno verde, sí, el H2, no el nitrógeno, que el líder del PP en mi país, Feijóo, la lía parda con esto.
Toda la energía limpia es bienvenida, pero nuestra prioridad debe ser clara. El criterio principal debe ser la eficiencia en costes. Dar prioridad a tecnologías asequibles que podemos desplegar ya para hacer frente a esta crisis fósil que no sabemos cuánto va a durar y para abaratar la energía en un futuro cercano. Objetivo de renovables a 2040, por supuesto.
Thank you. There is a blue card, do you want to accept it? It's from Mr. Stier, seat 673, please.
Puede ser en español.
Davor Ivo Stier
Bien, perfecto. Bueno, estimado colega, estoy de acuerdo que hay que darle la prioridad a las tecnologías, a las energías limpias, pero ¿no le parece que hemos dejado un poco de lado la geotermia? La ha mencionado. Y este Comisionado ha hecho mucho para que esa geotermia esté de una manera más relevante, pero todavía nos falta un plan de acción. Ha sido prometido por la Comisión, sé que se ha hecho un buen trabajo, pero todavía no se ha publicado.
Es hora de tener ese plan de acción y darle más importancia a la geotermia.
Bueno, efectivamente la geotermia es una energía renovable y aparte, si conseguimos avanzar en ella, puede ser muy eficiente. Yo también llamo a la Comisión para que haya un plan de acción.
Le quería mencionar que, por ejemplo, en mi país recientemente en Canarias se han empezado con sondeos de geotermia para producir en una isla que es volcánica pero que no tiene un gran territorio tener una energía asequible y renovable. Creo que puede ser una gran salida en aquellos lugares con potencial. Muchas gracias.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Terheș for one minute please.
În Uniunea Europeană electricitatea a ajuns mai scumpă decât gazul. O recunoaște și Comisia Europeană. E absurd. Acesta este rezultatul tranziției verzi. Ne vorbiți zilnic despre energie verde, obiective climatice și așa mai departe, dar nu ne spuneți niciodată cât costă și cine plătește.
Energia curată nu este un scop în sine. Trebuie să fie curată, trebuie să fie accesibilă și disponibilă oricând. Altfel este doar o lozincă scumpă. Vrem o Europă curată, dar nu cu prețul distrugerii industriei europene. Lăsați fiecare stat să-și aleagă mixul energetic.
Cărbune, hidro, eolian, nuclear, fotovoltaic, toate sunt bune dacă sunt în slujba omului. Europa are nevoie de rețele și de stocare, în niciun caz de noi interdicții.
Și încă un lucru: nu am renunțat la gazul rusesc pentru a deveni dependenți de tehnologia chineză. Energia pretins curată pe care oamenii obișnuiți nu și-o permit are un alt nume: sărăcie.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you. There is, I have two blue cards. Do you want to accept them? The first one is from Mr. Fuglsang and the next one is from Ms. Kircher. One at a time, please, Niels Fuglsang.
Niels Fuglsang
Thank you. Dear colleague, you refer to coal as a very good form of energy that's good for humans, if I understood you correctly. Do you think that that is really the case, taking into consideration the climate change that we are now seeing happening globally and also in Europe, where we have heatwaves killing thousands of people in Europe this year, this summer? And taking into consideration that coal contributes massively to greenhouse gas emissions and to climate change, do you think really that coal is the right way forward?
Claudiu-Richard Târziu
Stimate coleg, eu vă rog să țineți această teorie în fața românilor, bulgarilor și altor cetățeni europeni care nu au cu ce să-și încălzească locuințele, care nu beneficiază de curent de energie electrică la un preț pe care să și-l poată permite. Atâta vreme cât cărbunele nu este înlocuit cu altceva care să vină la un preț rezonabil, să vină continuu, să fie disponibil oricând, cărbunele trebuie menținut. De aceea sunt state în Uniunea Europeană care au cerut și au obținut derogări pentru folosirea cărbunelui. Nu este cazul României, din păcate.
Vielen Dank fürs Annehmen auch der Blue Card und Sie haben ja auch gerade Kernenergie erwähnt im Zusammenhang mit nachhaltigen Energien und hier mal eine Frage: wie können Sie das rechtfertigen, dass Kernenergie nachhaltig ist?
Nu trebuie să justific nimic pentru că deja e un lucru demonstrat. Cei care au renunțat la energia nucleară au ajuns să regrete lucrul acesta. Dacă nu mă înșel, chiar țara dumneavoastră de origine a revenit la sentimente mai bune cu această ocazie și vrea din nou nuclearul la cel mai înalt nivel.
Și nu e singura care vrea asta. România nu are energie foarte multă nucleară, dar regretă în fiecare zi lucrul ăsta. Mulțumesc.
Thank you very much. Dear colleagues, just to remind you that we don't take blue card on blue card. So if you want to have a blue card, you need to ask for it while the first speaker is speaking. And from now on, I will only accept one blue card per speaker and not two because we are a little short of time. And the next speaker is Ms. Bayeux for one minute, please.
Voorzitter, commissaris, betaalbare schone energie houdt de bedrijven van de toekomst draaiend en maakt Europa minder afhankelijk. En daarvoor moeten we drie dingen doen. Eén: sneller bouwen. Wie wil verduurzamen mag niet jarenlang op een vergunning wachten. Bij energie-infrastructuur hebben we al succes geboekt met eerlijke stikstofregels.
Jeannette Baljeu
Een beetje uitstoot tijdens de bouw mag een schone toekomst niet langer tegenhouden. En daar moeten we op doorpakken en dit ook bij andere vergunningen doen. Twee: meer kernenergie. Met kleine modulaire kernreactoren. Onze fabrieken hebben ook stroom nodig als het windstil is en donker is.
Stem vergunningen daarom ook Europees af. En drie: zorg voor klanten. Een ondernemer investeert pas in schone productie als hij zijn producten ook echt kwijt kan.
En daar kunnen we als overheden ook bij helpen door schoon in te kopen. Schone energie van eigen bodem, een lagere rekening en de productie hier in Europa. Autonoom en welvarend, dat is de toekomst waar we voor gaan.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much and the next speaker is Ms. Niekel for one and a half minute please.
Mirosława Nykiel
Szanowni państwo, panie komisarzu. Jeśli nie wygramy konkurencji gospodarczej z Chinami i z Ameryką, to zamiast zielonej Europy będziemy mieć zielony skansen. Dlaczego tak mówię? Kilka faktów. Osiem paneli fotowoltaicznych na dziesięć jest produkowanych gdzie?
W Chinach. Prąd dla fabryk w Europie jest dwa razy droższy niż prąd dla fabryk w Ameryce. Wszyscy wiemy dlaczego tak jest, ale co z tym zrobić to już nie bardzo. Europejski przemysł alarmuje o nieuczciwej konkurencji z Chin i o potężnym wsparciu państwowym dla tamtejszych producentów. Więc pytam szanownego pana komisarza: jak europejskie firmy mają konkurować tu i teraz?
Bo co do przyszłości, to z panem komisarzem się zgadzam, ale tu chodzi o wygranie konkurencji tu i teraz. Nie możemy dać się wykiwać Chińczykom. Chińska firma dostaje od państwa nawet osiem razy więcej pomocy niż firma z Zachodu. Jak z tym wygrać?
I teraz to, co najbardziej leży mi na sercu: mój region, Śląsk. Przez dwieście lat Śląsk dostarczał węgla i stali nie tylko Polsce, ale również w Europie. Musimy dokończyć transformację energetyczną na Śląsku i zbudować nowoczesny, innowacyjny ośrodek nie tylko dla gospodarki, ale także przyjazne miejsce dla mieszkańców i dla ludzi. Bo szanowni państwo, transformacja energetyczna bez przyszłości nie jest sprawiedliwa. Dziękuję bardzo.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms. Corrao for one minute, please.
Annalisa Corrado
Grazie, Presidente. Tutte le discussioni di questi mesi ci portano alla stessa conclusione: la decarbonizzazione, così cruciale per competitività, autonomia e sicurezza, non si può realizzare con ventisette strategie nazionali separate. Sono tantissime le cose che i singoli Stati avrebbero già dovuto fare e che possono fare da ora. Alcuni stanno andando nella direzione giusta, altri purtroppo no, basta guardare chi paga le bollette più alte.
Ma anche sommando gli sforzi nazionali, nel medio periodo non faremo il salto di qualità necessario per raggiungere gli obiettivi industriali e climatici al 2040 senza un salto in avanti nel processo di coesione. Serve una strategia energetica comune, più interconnessioni, un vero mercato unico, una governance dell'Unione che funzioni anche contro le speculazioni. Reti, rinnovabili, elettrificazione richiedono infrastrutture e investimenti con una dimensione europea. Next Generation EU ci ha dimostrato che possiamo farlo. Dobbiamo aprire una stagione permanente di investimenti comuni.
La dichiarazione è chiarissima: non abbiamo bisogno di meno Europa, ma di un'Europa più forte, più coesa e più determinata. Grazie.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms Solís Pérez, for one minute please.
Susana Solís Pérez
Gracias, presidenta, comisario. Defendemos las renovables y Europa debe seguir avanzando, pero instalarlas no basta, hay que poder llevar esa energía donde se necesita. Miren a España. Somos líderes en renovables, pero cerca del 90 % de la red está saturada. Fábricas y viviendas piden conexión y la respuesta es no.
Mientras, este verano tiramos la electricidad que consumen cuatro millones de hogares. Y cuando cae el viento, en España hay que parar a la industria electrointensiva para salvar el sistema, siete veces en diez semanas. Esto no es una transición, señor comisario, es un sistema descoordinado. Se ha invertido en generar, pero no en conectar. Y se quieren cerrar las nucleares justo cuando más falta hacen, cuando necesitamos todas las tecnologías.
Europa no necesita más objetivos. Lo que necesita es poder construir lo que ya ha decidido. Redes e interconexiones como prioridad. Permisos rápidos. Una electricidad que no pague más impuestos que el gas y que la nuclear cuente como lo que es, energía limpia, y que, por tanto, dar marcha atrás en el cierre de las nucleares en España.
João Oliveira
Obrigado, presidente. Senhora deputada Solís Pérez, falou da necessidade de acelerar o licenciamento e eu quero perguntar-lhe por controlar as regras do licenciamento. E faço esta pergunta a propósito de uma realidade concreta: megacentrais fotovoltaicas. Em Portugal estamos a enfrentar a ameaça de uma grande parte do nosso território ser completamente destruído com a instalação de megacentrais fotovoltaicas. No Alentejo, na Beira Interior, em Trás-os-Montes, são 1100, 1600, 1800 hectares de megacentrais fotovoltaicas a ocuparem solos agrícolas, a prejudicarem as populações, a destruírem fauna, a flora, a paisagem, recursos naturais.
Speaker 324
A questão não é a opção pelas renováveis, são as condições em que essa opção está a ser feita contra as populações.
Thank you very much. Just to remind you, your questions are 30 seconds. Please, Solís Pérez.
Susana Solís Pérez
Muchas gracias. Efectivamente hay que encontrar ese equilibrio entre más renovables y más agricultura y respetar nuestro medio ambiente. Ese es el equilibrio que hay que encontrar. Pero el ejemplo claro es en España, donde tenemos una capacidad de energía solar, de energía eólica, donde tenemos capacidad instalada y no somos capaces de llevar toda esa energía a nuestras plantas, a nuestros, a nuestras viviendas y hacer que la energía sea más barata. Por lo tanto, avanzar en renovables sí, siempre encontrando ese equilibrio respetando el medio ambiente, respetando las comunidades locales, pero sobre todo invertir en red porque es lo que necesitamos.
Si no, nunca vamos a tener energía limpia, barata y segura como es lo que estamos pidiendo aquí hoy.
Thank you. There was another blue card from Gonzálvez Casares, seat 87. Do you want to take it?
Thank you. Please, 87.
Señora Solís, teniendo en cuenta que coincido en muchos de sus postulados, quería unas preguntas muy concretas. ¿Cuántas centrales nucleares han cerrado en España desde 2018 hasta hoy y cuántas entre 2010 y 2018, porque son diferentes gobiernos? Segundo, nuestro país necesita hidrógeno para descarbonizar, por ejemplo, la industria en Asturias, hidrógeno verde.
¿Usted cree que debemos avanzar por esa trayectoria? Hemos, por ejemplo, ahora mismo se está construyendo una de las mayores plantas de Europa en Huelva. Y tercero, ¿cree usted que un país con tantas renovables merece un objetivo europeo de renovables a 2040, sí o no? Gracias.
Susana Solís Pérez
Muchas preguntas para 30 segundos, pero a la pregunta de las nucleares, encantada, porque coincidimos en mucho, pero no en el cierre de las nucleares en España. Gracias a la presión que hemos hecho desde nuestro grupo político, la nuclear de Almaraz aún se mantiene. Si es por el Partido Socialista, todavía está ahí, está el calendario de cierre, que es una barbaridad, y ya lo ha dicho la Comisión Europea, la energía nuclear es limpia. Y por supuesto, energía renovable, hidrógeno, pero es que necesitamos red. Es que necesitamos redes.
Es que España está desperdiciando, estamos tirando cuatro, estamos tirando el 11 % de nuestra energía, la que, energía solar, porque no somos capaces de llevarla a la red. Por lo tanto, claro que sí, claro que queremos invertir en energía limpia, pero es que no tenemos la infraestructura, y eso es lo más importante que tenemos ahora.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
So, dear colleagues, we are now approaching, you know, we are going to have a little problem with the time, so please stay to stick to your speaking time and if there will be more blue cards, I will only accept one per speaker. So the next speaker is Mr. Gonçalves for one minute, please.
Bruno Gonçalves
Thank you, President. Caro Presidente, caros colegas, ao contrário do que diz a extrema-direita, a culpa dos preços da energia não é das energias renováveis, é do amigo que tanto defendem, Donald Trump. Como a União Europeia importa hoje mais de 50% dos combustíveis fósseis, a transição verde não é o problema, já teria sido a solução se já a tivéssemos avançado. Por isso, senhor Comissário, precisamos sim de eletrificar e eletrificar rápido e de levar os benefícios aos cidadãos. Isso significa acelerar o licenciamento para a produção eólica e solar, mas não só.
Hoje, em Portugal, muitas famílias deparam com uma crise dos combustíveis como em toda a Europa e nós precisamos de avançar com soluções para aqueles que mais precisam. E é por isso que eu gostava que a Comissão propusesse um plano europeu de leasing. Significa utilizar os apoios públicos para que o cidadão comum possa ter um carro elétrico a prestações acessíveis. Era uma vitória a toda a linha, uma vitória para a nossa indústria, uma vitória para a Europa a produzir menos emissões e uma vitória para os portugueses e para os europeus que pagariam muito, mas muito menos agora e no futuro na conta energética. Muito obrigado.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Tobé for one and a half minute, please.
Bruno Tobback
Thank you chair, commissioner, colleagues. Mario Draghi caused a bit of a panic when he proposed to build a competitive European economy based on energy independence because he priced it at the cost of around 800 billion of annual investments. But at current prices, we will be spending at least 500 billion euros this year alone in buying fossil fuels outside of Europe. And probably another 100 billion to subsidize them in several member states so that people can actually afford to drive their cars and heat their homes. And still, while reality stares them in the face and money bleeds from our citizens' pockets, some in this parliament rage against the dying of fossil fuels and would rather buy more gas from Vladimir Putin.
They're like the 15th century scribes in Paris who actually blocked the introduction of the printing press for two decades. They fight the inevitable. And so in the end they will lose. But the question is how much longer will it take for a broad majority in this parliament to choose the obvious and clean way out of this dead end? Because colleagues, it's not the technology that we lack.
It's not the money that we lack. What we need most of all is to stop hesitating, do the inevitable, speed it up, build these new networks, build these new opportunities and offer a better future to our citizens. Thank you.
Thank you very much, and the next speaker is Ms. Eriksson for one and a half minute, please.
Tack för ordet. Vad kostar torka? Vad kostar översvämning? Vad kostar skogsbrand efter skogsbrand? Vad kostar stormar?
Vad kostar extremvärme? Vad kostar det att sitta i knä på diktaturer? Vad kostar förstörda skördar? Vad kostar en förlust i kapplöpningen om de nya jobben i industrin? Jag hade ett annat tal förberett, men så hör jag extremhögern här inne prata om kostnader för att bygga saker, för att investera.
Men vad är kostnaden för att avstå? Djup arbetslöshet, högre matpriser, högre elpriser, ökat beroende av stater som inte delar vår syn på demokrati.
I sommarens extrema värme blev det återigen tydligt att kostnaden också mäts i människoliv. Spelar det någon roll för klimatförnekande extremhögerföreträdare i den här kammaren? Vi har råd att ta ansvar. Vi har råd att investera i energisystem och ny produktion. Vi har råd att bli mer oberoende.
Eriksson
Det är faktiskt billigare. Men vad vi inte har råd med, det är lögnaktiga, oansvariga politiker. Tack.
Christel Schaldemose
Tack så mycket. And the next speaker is Mr. Sidl for one minute, please.
Günther Sidl
Sehr geehrte Frau Präsidentin, geschätzter Herr Kommissar. Beim Thema Energie war Europa viel zu lange in der Zuschauerrolle. Wir haben es uns bequem gemacht und die Abhängigkeiten von fossilen Energieträgern einfach akzeptiert. Die Folgen dieser Politik sind nach dem russischen Angriff auf die Ukraine und zuletzt durch den Krieg im Iran für alle schmerzlich spürbar geworden. Es ist höchste Zeit, dass sich Europa endgültig aus diesen Abhängigkeiten löst und damit nicht nur Versorgungssicherheit, sondern auch eine verstärkte Preisstabilität im Energiebereich anstrebt.
Das brauchen die Menschen und die Unternehmen in Europa, nämlich einen langfristigen Schutz vor neuen Teuerungswellen und vor neuen Wettbewerbsnachteilen.
Das alles kann aber nur gelingen, wenn wir uns endlich richtig auf den Ausbau erneuerbarer Energieträger fokussieren, denn das ist der einzige Weg und die einzige Form der Energiegewinnung, die Europa unabhängiger machen kann. Deshalb muss unser gesamter Gestaltungswille in die weitere Elektrifizierung aller Sektoren, den Ausbau der europäischen Energienetze und natürlich den Ausbau erneuerbarer Energieträger fließen. Herzlichen Dank.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much and the next speaker is Mr. Schuman for one minute please.
Jean-Marc Germain
Chers collègues, qui est responsable de la hausse critique du prix de l'énergie ? Qui oblige les Européens à choisir entre travailler et remplir le frigo ? Qui pousse les PME à la faillite ? Qui va empêcher des millions de familles de se chauffer cet hiver ? Poutine, Trump, Khamenei, bien sûr, mais il y a aussi dans cet hémicycle des coupables.
Ce sont ceux qui, texte après texte, empêchent l'Union européenne d'accomplir sa transition énergétique, sacrifiant les générations futures au profit et dans l'esprit de gains électoraux mesquins, retardant le solaire, l'éolien, les véhicules électriques, les voitures propres, en refusant l'arrêt des subventions aux énergies fossiles, en supprimant la responsabilité sociale et environnementale des entreprises.
Tant que nos modes de consommation, de production et de déplacement ne seront pas décarbonés, nous continuerons de subir de plein fouet les conséquences de la dépendance du pétrole. Alors nous nous battrons pour que le prochain budget européen dégage des moyens pour la transition et pour financer le mur d'investissement à venir. Nous ne connaissons pas d'autre solution qu'un nouvel emprunt commun sur les décennies à venir. Cette option viendra sur la table tôt ou tard parce que c'est la seule réponse à la hauteur des difficultés que connaissent nos concitoyens. Je vous remercie.
Thank you. And the last speaker before catch-the-eye is Mr. Nikolic for one minute, please.
Aleksandar Nikolic
Quand on parle d'énergie propre, comme vient de le faire Monsieur Germain, on parle prioritairement ici, malheureusement, d'éolien ou de solaire. Alors l'Allemagne a fait ce pari jusqu'au bout en abandonnant carrément le nucléaire. On va faire le bilan : leur production électrique émet jusqu'à huit fois plus de gaz à effet de serre que la France, et ils ont une électricité presque deux fois plus chère parce qu'ils compensent l'intermittence de leurs éoliennes par du gaz et du charbon ultra-polluant. En France, des idéologues comme Monsieur Germain ont commencé à faire la même chose il y a vingt-cinq ans. Alors on va faire le bilan : on a mis près de cent milliards d'euros sur la table pour le renouvelable.
L'électricité coûtait onze centimes le kilowattheure en 2005, vingt centimes en 2025, deux fois plus.
Aleksandar Nikolic
Et encore, heureusement qu'on a gardé 70 % de nucléaire. Ce qui n'empêche pas les macronistes de continuer de manière absurde à soutenir les éoliennes, et je parle même pas de LFI, des Verts et encore à l'instant du PS avec Monsieur Germain qui eux s'opposent carrément au nucléaire. On veut tous électrifier la France, vous avez raison. Mais certains veulent donc le faire en produisant moins d'électricité et en la rendant plus chère, c'est un suicide énergétique.
Jean-Marc Germain
Monsieur le député, on vous a donc bien entendu, pour vous la solution c'est du tout nucléaire. Est-ce que vous pouvez expliquer devant cette représentation à quel horizon les propositions que vous faites de produire et de construire des nouvelles centrales nucléaires répondront à la crise énergétique que les Français subissent aujourd'hui ? Répondez-nous puisque vous savez très bien la durée de construction d'une centrale nucléaire, je vous remercie.
Si vous n'aviez pas abandonné le nucléaire depuis 25 ans, on aurait eu beaucoup de réacteurs. S'il n'y avait pas eu ce plan de descendre à 50 % la part du nucléaire sous justement François Hollande.
Aleksandar Nikolic
S'il n'y avait pas eu un abandon des investissements, eh bien nos réacteurs auraient pu être prolongés, Fessenheim n'aurait pas été abandonné et nos centrales nucléaires seraient plus efficaces. Donc effectivement, on a pris du retard. Il faut maintenir les réacteurs actuels en investissant encore pour qu'elles soient en capacité de produire comme elles l'ont fait dans le passé. Et il faut investir évidemment sur du nucléaire pour demain. C'est évidemment le bon sens avec un mix en mélangeant avec l'hydraulique pour qu'on revienne au moins déjà à la capacité passée, mais qu'on produise beaucoup plus d'électricité pour demain, électrifier les pratiques.
So, dear colleagues, we have now come to catch the eye and I am able to give the floor to all who has asked for it, so just stay calm and it will be your time. And we will start with Mr. Stier, seat 673, please.
Davor Ivo Stier
Hvala predsjednice. Dobar dio ove rasprave se odnosio na nuklearnu energiju, da je ona bila na neki način diskriminirana u odnosu na obnovljive izvore energije. I ja se slažem da se treba ići i tim putem i da je bila doista strateška greška odustati u nekim zemljama od nuklearne energije. Ali bih želio opet se vratiti na to da nije samo nuklearna energija, da su i neki oblici obnovljivih izvora energije isto tako bili zanemareni.
I zato ću se vratiti na važnost geotermalne energije. I mislim da i ona nam treba ako gledamo da ona pogotovo može biti rješenje za grijanje i hlađenje, kada gledamo da u tome se oko 50% naših energetskih potreba baš odnosi u Europi, a imamo geotermalnu energiju koju nismo dovoljno iskoristili. Zato još jednom pozivam Komisiju da objavi taj akcijski plan. Znam da su puno radili na tome i u dobrom smjeru, vrijeme da se to objavi.
Thank you very much and the next speaker is Mr. Tynkkynen, seat 210 please.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Arvoisa puhemies, kalliit energianhinnat kurittavat kansalaisia. Yksi suuri raipanheiluttaja kansalaisille on viime vuosina ollut vihervasemmisto ja heidän energiapolitiikkansa. Olisiko teidän vihdoin aika myöntää tuuli- ja aurinkovoiman mahdottomuus toimia vakaana energiakivijalkanamme? Todellinen energiakivijalka on olemassa, mutta sitä te olette iät ja ajat halunneet murentaa, jopa konkreettisesti purkaa. Puhun ydinvoimasta.
Se on varmaa sekä säästä riippumatonta energiantuotantoa.
Suomessa ydinvoimaan on nojattu jo noin 50 vuotta ja se tuottaa lähes 40 prosenttia Suomessa käytettävästä sähköstä. Ydinvoiman elinkaaripäästöt ovat jopa pienemmät kuin aurinkovoimalla. Joten aletaan vain edistää sitä puhdasta energiaa EU-politiikassa, niin kuin nyt vaaditaan. Edistetään ydinvoimaa. Kiitos.
Thank you very much. And the next speaker is Mr. Mazurek, seat 704 please.
Vy snáď nevidíte, že máme najdrahší benzín a naftu na celom svete? Naozaj nevidíte ten prudký nárast energií? Nevidíte to, že ľudia majú extrémne drahé bývanie, extrémne drahé potraviny? Nežijete v Európe? Nevidíte migračnú krízu, energetickú krízu, ekonomickú krízu, vojnovú krízu?
Milan Mazurek
Veď to všetko sú výsledky vašich zelených, progresívnych, ľavicových politík. A potom sem prídete a poviete: musíme pokračovať, odstrihnúť sa od fosílnych palív, zaviesť úplne čisté energie, nové emisné normy, zakázať autá so spaľovacími motormi, zdaniť naše bývania, ľudí ešte viac, zaviesť systém ETS 2, aby ľudia platili ďalšie emisné dane za svoje vykurovania. A potom tu všetci budete asi lietať na nejakých automobiloch alebo jazdiť bicyklom. Veď vy žijete v rozprávkach. Vy nežijete v realite.
A jediné, čo si ľudia aktuálne prajú, je zastaviť vás, konečne vrátiť do Európy zdravý rozum a vrátiť sa k tomu, čo funguje, k normálnej technologickej neutralite. Využívajme to, čo funguje a čo tu po stáročia budovali naši predkovia.
Vy ničíte Európu.
Christel Schaldemose
Thank you very much. Thank you. And the next speaker is Ms. Friis, seat 31, please.
Tak. Der kører egentlig en helt vild højrefløjs-smædekampagne, som om det er sol, vind og de vedvarende energikilder, der er dyre eller ustabile. Men ved I, hvad der virkelig er dyrt og ustabilt? Det er da at lade benzinprisen styre sig, om Hormuz-strædet er åbent eller lukket. Det er ingen i Europa tjent med.
Sigrid Friis
Det er dyrt, og det er ustabilt at være dybt afhængig af Putins gas for at varme boligerne i Europa op. Det er ingen af os tjent med. Så hvis man virkelig vil vores kontinent det godt, så skal man kæmpe for mere grøn energi, mere europæisk produceret energi, og at vi kan gøre det til gode priser både for virksomheder og for borgere. Hvis vi vil styrke vores konkurrenceevne, så skal vi ikke gå højrefløjens vej. Nej, vi skal gå den vej, vi godt kender.
Vi skal have et elektrificeringsmål. Vi skal investere i vores grid. Vi skal investere i den industrielle dekarbonisering. Og så skal vi sørge for at stå vagt om vores ETS og bruge det til at investere i det, vi ved, der er nødvendigt og gå den grønne vej. Det er den vej, der kommer til at sikre både Europas borgere og vores konkurrenceevne.
And the next speaker is Mr. Mularczyk, seat 590, please.
Mange tak.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk
Dziękuję bardzo. Panie przewodniczący, pani komisarzu, Europa ma dziś bardzo poważny problem. Wysokie ceny energii osłabiają konkurencyjność europejskich gospodarek, europejskiego przemysłu i zwiększają presję na miejsca pracy. Właśnie dzisiaj Parlament Europejski głosował nad pomocą dla zwolnionych pracowników europejskiej motoryzacji, między innymi Valmet Automotive w Finlandii oraz Akwel, BorgWarner i Peugeot Citroën w Galicji. Siedem milionów euro przeznaczono dla zwalnianych pracowników.
Jednocześnie Komisja Europejska kilka dni temu odmówiła zgody 26 milionów euro dla polskiego wsparcia dla rozbudowy fabryki MAN w Niepołomicach w Małopolsce. I tu widać zasadniczą różnicę. Najpierw europejski przemysł zmaga się z wysokimi kosztami energii, utratą konkurencyjności, później ograniczamy możliwości wsparcia nowych inwestycji, a na końcu przeznaczamy europejskie środki na pomoc zwalnianym pracownikom. Dlatego pytam Komisję Europejską, czy nie lepiej obniżyć koszty energii, stworzyć warunki, aby firmy...
Thank you very much. And the last speaker during Catch-the-Eye is Mr. Oliveira, seat 125, please.
João Oliveira
Obrigado, Presidente. Senhor Comissário Jørgensen, as megacentrais solares e também eólicas não são opções corretas de energias renováveis. São projetos suportados por interesses financeiros que procuram no mais curto espaço de tempo acumular o maior lucro possível. E Portugal é um exemplo disso. Senhor Comissário, vá a Évora, vá à Cova da Beira, vá a Miranda do Douro e Mogadouro e vai perceber aquilo que lhe estou a dizer.
São milhares de hectares de solos agrícolas ocupados com painéis solares ou com torres eólicas em megaparques de produção de energia que destroem e comprometem solos agrícolas, comprometem a fauna e a flora, destroem a qualidade de vida das populações, põem em causa elevados critérios de preservação ambiental, destroem património e recursos naturais. Esta não é uma forma adequada de promover a produção de energia a partir de fontes renováveis. Precisamos, sim, que a energia seja produzida a partir de fontes renováveis, mas equilibrando todos os interesses em presença, nomeadamente os interesses das populações.
Thank you very much. So dear colleagues, thank you for your participation in the debate and now I will give the floor back to the Commission and Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to comment on the debate please. The floor is yours.
Dan Jørgensen
Honorable members, thank you so much for a very good debate. So no doubt energy prices in Europe are too high. Professor Draghi also showed us that in his famous report. I like to joke that in some political offices on this planet you swear on the Bible when you start. When I assumed my office, me and my colleague, we had to swear on the Draghi report.
I'm of course joking, but also not joking. The Draghi report sends a very clear message to us. We need to bring our prices down of energy, otherwise we cannot compete. But it's also important to have a nuanced look at what that means. Because just saying that our energy prices are two to three times higher than China and the US doesn't really give us the full picture.
Fact of the matter is that energy in some member states are quite cheap.
Energy in others are very expensive. So saying that we have too high prices in average doesn't really make much sense. It's like saying if you have one foot in ice cold water and one foot in boiling hot water, that actually you had your feet in lukewarm water. It does not make sense. What we can see is that the countries in our union that pay the least for their energy are the countries with the highest penetration of renewables and, as a general rule, the ones that are best connected to neighboring countries.
The International Energy Agency estimates that we save more than 30 billion euros per year on newly deployed renewables. So that's what comes on top of what we already have. Approximately the same amount, according to ACER, is what we save on being as connected as we are.
So yes, we pay too much for our energy, but had we not had an, had we not had the energy union that we have and been as connected as we are, we would have paid far more. So, the answer for us is to deploy more renewables as fast as possible. It is to help deploy more nuclear. This will take us a little bit longer, but new technologies like small modular reactors can become a part of the future solutions, especially if it's fourth generation and the waste problems and the safety problems are not the same as they may be today. And energy efficiency, which can help us of course bring down our consumption of fossils already tomorrow, because these technologies can be deployed fast.
Now, another thing that's not 100% correct is when people talk about an energy crisis. Yes, we do have an energy crisis, but actually it would be more correct to say we have a fossil energy crisis. Because the main reason for us paying so much for our energy and the main reason for us being in the middle of a huge crisis right now is our dependency of fossils. In an average year we pay more than 370 billion euros for imported fossil energy. In an average year.
This year is unfortunately not an average year.
Already now, since February, we've paid 100 billion euros more for our energy than what we normally do, without receiving one extra molecule of gas or oil. So, whether you think the main purpose of our energy policy in Europe is to fight climate change, or you think it is to make sure that we are competitive, or you think it is to make sure that we have security of supply and thereby security as such, the answer is the same. We need to get rid of our dependency. We need to stop importing expensive, polluting molecules, fossil molecules, and instead use our own homegrown, cheap, clean electrons. Thank you.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie, Commissario. Prego, a nome del Consiglio, Ministro Byrne. Prego.
Thomas Byrne
Thank you, Vice-President. And this has been an excellent debate and the Commissioner has set out many of his objectives and given us an overview of where things are going.
And we've heard different views across the chamber. But I am confident that together we can deliver on many of the items that we're working on and that then will result in an impact on citizens, on the cleanliness of our energy supply and on the cost of our energy supply. We can deliver on an ambitious European grids package. This allows us to modernize our grids, it allows us to have faster permitting procedures. The European Council has expressed support for an ambitious electrification using all net-zero and low-carbon solutions, alongside investment in grid storage and interconnectors.
Again, the Commissioner spoke very clearly about the impact on costs that they have, but also recognizing different national characteristics. And I think that has been a feature of the debate today, that there are different characteristics to this debate in different Member States. And the European Council's view on all of this accommodates those Member States that view nuclear energy as an important component of their own energy security. So, I'm convinced of our ability to achieve a successful energy transition, to achieve electrification and therefore energy sovereignty. It has been a political wish for several years.
Now, it is an urgent necessity. Thank you.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie Ministro. La discussione è chiusa. Sospendiamo per qualche minuto fino alle 16:15 per l'inizio del prossimo dibattito. Grazie.
La seduta è ripresa. L'ordine del giorno reca le dichiarazioni del Consiglio e della Commissione: necessità di una strategia dell'UE volta a contrastare l'entrismo islamista e l'influenza della rete dei Fratelli Musulmani. Iniziamo, do la parola a nome del Consiglio al Ministro Byrne.
Prego Ministro, grazie.
Thomas Byrne
Grazie mille, and thank you very much. Vice-President, honorable members, Commissioner Brunner, thank you for the invitation to take part in this debate. From the outset, we stand united in the fight against terrorism and all forms of violent extremism that promote radicalization, hatred, or values contrary to those enshrined in Article 2 of our treaty. The threat of radicalization and Islamist extremism continues to be a priority for the European Union and its member states. In this context, the Muslim Brotherhood organization is clearly undergoing scrutiny, even fueling wider concerns in Europe about the role of foreign funding in supporting Islamist organizations and institutions.
As of today, the Muslim Brotherhood is not listed as a terrorist organization under Council Decision of 2026/455 and is therefore not subject to the specific restrictive measures that apply to designated groups.
Nevertheless, the EU has various means to address the ways in which any network, whether formally designated as a terrorist organization or not, can exploit financial channels to impose its agenda. The Anti-Money Laundering Authority Regulation, the Transfer of Funds Regulation aligned with the dedicated Markets in Crypto-Assets Regulation, to name just a few. For online terrorist content, the Terrorist Content Online Regulation requires any identified terrorist content online to be removed within the hour. The EU also addresses radicalization through its Protect EU agenda, in particular by providing targeted support for those most at risk through a whole-of-society approach. For example, the EU Knowledge Hub on the Prevention of Radicalization, with 60 million euro in funding, connects over 6,000 practitioners and policy makers and provides guidance, tools, training, and tailored operational support.
Other measures which require a joint effort include to curtail undesirable foreign funding that may flow to extremist actors, to increase transparency of fund allocation by expanding the EU-wide register of external funding for NGOs and civil society organisations, to strengthen information and intelligence sharing mechanisms between Member States and EU agencies. In concluding, we should keep in mind that radicalisation in Europe is a multi-dimensional phenomenon. It spans a wide spectrum, from jihadist-inspired violence to right-wing, left-wing and nihilistic violence, and each strand demands the same level of vigilance and response. And I do look forward to the discussion.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie Ministro. Ora a nome della Commissione, prego Commissario Brunner. Grazie mille.
Magnus Brunner
Dear President, Minister, honourable members, before I start with the topic of the debate, let me say a few words on the meaning of this very day, of the 7th of October. On this very day three years ago, Hamas terrorists carried out brutal terror attacks on Israel. Around 1,200 people lost their lives and hundreds were taken hostage. And today we remember them. The European Union stands with all the people whose lives have been shattered since that fateful day, the victims and their families, the survivors, the hostages and those who waited for them.
But remembrance also carries a responsibility, I would say. In the year since, we have seen antisemitism rise in Europe and Jewish communities have felt less safe in places they have called home for generations. And we cannot accept this. Jewish life belongs to Europe and it is our duty to protect it. But honorable members, to the topic of the debate.
Terror and violence, so often fueled by extremism, is against everything this house actually stands for. Extremism advances gradually and often also unnoticed, fueled by online echo chambers and the rapid spread of narratives, of false narratives. It undermines also the credibility of key institutions that are central to our democracies. It drives people to the fringes, one injustice, one video, one false certainty at a time. And it rarely begins with violence.
It actually begins with the poisoning of the language, with the erosion of trust, and with the slow teaching of hatred. Honorable members, extremism is not to be confused with the legitimate exercise of freedoms, including the freedom of religion, including the freedom of thought and the freedom of expression. These are fundamental values at the core of the European Union, enshrined also in our treaties, of course, and in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. And it is these values that make our continent more attractive than many others, because we have learned from our history and have created something better. But this is something extremists are trying to exploit.
Extremism begins where these freedoms are called into question, or rejected even, where the equality of men and women is denied, and where the values of democracy are being called into question. And that is where those who try to abuse these freedoms must be stopped. And let us be very clear, extremists cannot rely on freedom of expression to protect hate speech and incitement to hatred. Honorable members, in recent years, the terrorist threat linked to Islamist extremism in Europe has been associated with jihadist actors and ideas.
And this includes also movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood and the networks also surrounding it. And we have to and we do take these concerns of course very seriously. Today, unfortunately, member states still reach different conclusions on the role that the Muslim Brotherhood plays, also because there are different standards applied in their assessment. Some focus on explicit links to violence or terrorism, others also examine activities considered potentially harmful to democratic resilience, to social cohesion or also fundamental rights, even where they do not amount to criminal conduct. Yet there is a broad agreement, and you mentioned that also Minister, among member states on where the European Union can actually add value in preventing and also in countering violent Islamist extremism and terrorism.
We set out the relevant measures in our recent Protect EU agenda to prevent and counter terrorism, specifically measures for prevention of radicalization and violent extremism, measures against terrorist financing and undesirable foreign support, and also measures against illegal content online. And when it comes to prevention of radicalization and extremism, the EU Knowledge Hub on Prevention of Radicalization supports member states' practitioners with materials on the one hand, with expertise also on the other hand, and also provides a forum for discussions. For terrorist financing, we are preparing the ground for a European financial transactions retrieval system to have a better possibility of identifying and also preventing terrorist financial flows. And when it comes to the online dimension, when it comes to illegal content online, we have stepped up our work in the EU Internet Forum on identifying and also removing content constituting radicalization and violent extremism with a special focus on better protecting children. So, honorable members, a strong Europe is not one that closes itself off.
A strong Europe is confident in its values. It protects the believer and confronts, on the other hand, of course, the extremists.
It guarantees religious freedom and refuses at the same time to let that freedom become a cover for those who despise it. It defends its way of life, not by becoming less free, but being firm and unflinching in the defense of freedom. So let us honor those we remember today by the way we act, by standing firm also against hatred in all its forms, by building societies also in which no child grows up believing that violence is actually a path to meaning, and by ensuring also that never again is faith turned into a weapon. So thank you very much for your attention and I'm looking forward to the discussion. Thank you.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie, Commissario. Iniziamo il dibattito. Prego, onorevole Imart. Prego.
Céline Imart
Merci, Présidente, Monsieur le Ministre, Monsieur le Commissaire, chers collègues. Trois ans, jour pour jour, après les massacres du 7 octobre, une question devrait nous hanter : combien de visages l'islamisme devra-t-il encore nous montrer avant que l'Europe cesse de lui opposer le même aveuglement ? L'entrisme islamiste ne commence pas toujours par le bruit des armes.
Il commence par le sourire, la cravate bien nouée, le langage des droits de l'homme détourné. Il tue lorsqu'il le peut, mais il infiltre lorsqu'il ne le peut pas. Le rapport sur les Frères musulmans déclassifié par Bruno Retailleau a tiré la sonnette d'alarme. À l'Europe de l'entendre et de cesser de prendre sa complaisance pour de la tolérance. Le FEMYSO incarne ce cheval de Troie élégant.
On les a crus fréquentables, on a ouvert les salles, les financements, les institutions. Là où la violence fracasse les portes, l'entrisme attend qu'on les lui ouvre. Qui d'autre de mieux que la gauche pour tenir la poignée ? Au nom d'un antirascisme dévoyé et paralysé par le chantage à la stigmatisation. Cette semaine encore dans ces murs, alors que notre Parlement préparait l'hommage aux victimes du 7 octobre, Rima Hassan a profané les drapeaux israéliens et européens dressés pour cette mémoire.
Ce n'est plus supportable. Cessons d'appeler dialogue la naïveté. Cessons d'appeler partenaire celui qui cherche notre caution. Cessons d'appeler représentative une association parce qu'elle ponctue ses demandes de subventions par diversité et inclusion. Pour la première fois, notre Parlement est appelé à regarder en face l'entrisme et l'influence des réseaux des Frères musulmans.
Je porte cette résolution pour défendre l'Europe. Pour ceux qui ne reviendront plus, mais aussi pour la génération qui arrive et qui aura à vivre avec nos choix. L'Europe leur laissera un continent qui tient encore debout lorsqu'elle cessera d'être cette belle endormie qui croit que tous les loups arrivent en hurlant. À ceux dont la mémoire nous oblige, à ceux dont la promesse nous engage, nous le devons. Merci.
Chloé Ridel
Chers collègues et Madame Imart, une fois encore vous vous alliez avec vos amis d'extrême droite pour nous imposer vos discours islamophobes, je n'ai pas d'autres mots. Cette fois sous couvert d'une résolution sur l'entrisme islamiste en Europe. Les fondamentalismes religieux, soyons clairs, tous représentent une vraie menace. Leurs ingérences doivent être combattues d'où qu'elles viennent. Mais Madame Imart, avec vos arguments flous, votre obsession pour une seule forme d'entrisme et votre silence, ou devrais-je dire votre complaisance face aux autres, n'est que la traduction de votre volonté de désigner toujours les mêmes boucs émissaires.
Où êtes-vous lorsqu'il faut combattre l'entrisme des organisations intégristes catholiques anti-avortement lorsque vos amis les invitent ici au Parlement pour y répandre des contre-vérités scientifiques et combattre l'une de nos libertés les plus fondamentales ?
Où êtes-vous lorsqu'il faut dénoncer l'entrisme trumpiste dans nos systèmes politiques destinés à faire gagner des partis nationalistes en Europe ? Et vous, députés lepénistes, où êtes-vous lorsqu'il faut combattre l'entrisme de groupuscules néonazis ou d'influenceurs antisémites qui gangrènent jusqu'à la direction de vos partis politiques ? Vous êtes absents, absents parce que votre combat ce n'est pas de lutter contre l'entrisme, non votre combat c'est d'alimenter encore et toujours les mêmes peurs et la même haine.
Susanna Ceccardi
Grazie Presidente. Con le vostre leggi democratiche vi colonizzeremo e con le nostre leggi coraniche vi domineremo. Così parlava un famoso esponente e dei principali ideologi della Fratellanza Musulmana. L'entrismo islamista è una strategia sottile e pericolosa, l'infiltrazione deliberata nelle istituzioni democratiche, nelle scuole, nelle associazioni, nei comuni, per far prevalere dall'interno un'agenda politica islamista. I principali attori sono le reti legate ai Fratelli Musulmani, si presentano come moderati e dialoganti, ma il loro obiettivo di lungo periodo è affermare la supremazia della Sharia sulle leggi dei nostri ordinamenti.
Sono reti che entrano nelle associazioni, nelle scuole, nelle università e in certi casi si fanno eleggere nelle nostre istituzioni perché sono candidate nelle liste delle sinistre.
Noi patrioti chiediamo che i Fratelli Musulmani siano inseriti nella lista europea delle organizzazioni terroristiche. Chiediamo di chiudere i rubinetti ai finanziamenti europei alle organizzazioni legate alle reti islamiste. Noi patrioti non abbiamo paura di difendere l'Europa.
Mes chers collègues, où sont donc les députés de la gauche ? Où sont les députés Verts et LFI ? Où sont les amis de Monsieur Glucksmann ? Ah, ils ne sont pas là parce qu'ils considèrent sans doute les Frères musulmans non pas comme un problème, mais comme leurs électeurs ou leurs électeurs potentiels. Mes chers collègues, demain nous avons une occasion historique, vitale de mettre fin à des années de naïveté et de complaisance à l'égard des Frères musulmans.
Nicolas Bay
Nous pouvons voter dans cet hémicycle à la majorité absolue du Parlement européen un texte à la hauteur du défi qui nous est imposé. Plus aucun financement pour toutes les organisations liées à la mouvance islamiste. Plus aucune place dans nos institutions pour des associations comme le FEMYSO. Et surtout, comme ont eu le courage de le faire des États membres comme l'Autriche, des États tiers comme l'Égypte ou les Émirats arabes unis, inscrire officiellement et solennellement les Frères musulmans sur la liste européenne des organisations terroristes.
Depuis des décennies, l'Europe subit séparatisme communautaire, criminalité et même terrorisme. Nos peuples sont confrontés à l'islamisme, à l'action sournoise et insidieuse des Frères musulmans, cette confrérie qui veut conquérir nos nations, nos lieux de pouvoir, notre vie sociale et nos territoires. Et le Conseil et la Commission devront entendre cette attente légitime de nos peuples exprimée par la voix de notre Parlement. Les Frères musulmans n'ont pas leur place dans nos institutions. Islamistes hors d'Europe.
Sophie Wilmès
Les Frères musulmans sont une menace haute et prioritaire en ce sens qu'ils peuvent conduire à des comportements antidémocratiques, à la polarisation ou à la violation des droits fondamentaux. Ces propos, chers collègues, ne sont pas de moi, mais des services de sécurité de renseignement de Belgique. Ils ne visent ni l'islam en tant que religion, ni l'ensemble des musulmans, mais bien le projet politique des Frères musulmans, malgré tous les apparats de respectabilité qu'ils veulent se donner. Alors quand j'entends celles et ceux qui bottent en touche ou qui minimisent, ne voient-ils pas le danger ou bien ne veulent-ils simplement pas le voir ?
Je m'oppose aussi fermement à celles et ceux qui utilisent cette menace comme un alibi pour cracher leur haine. Alors oui, nous avons besoin d'une stratégie européenne avec au minimum une méthode commune pour identifier la menace, les réseaux, une transparence complète sur les financements et un meilleur contrôle de l'accès à nos institutions pour ne plus céder aucun terrain à l'extrémisme religieux. Merci.
Grazie onorevole, prego onorevole Karjah.
Damien Carême
Voorzitter, ik ben een Europeaan die onze geschiedenis serieus neemt. We weten waar ontmenselijking begint: met woorden, met het aanwijzen van een groep mensen als verdacht, met het suggereren dat mensen met een bepaald geloof, een bepaald uiterlijk of een bepaalde afkomst misschien niet loyaal zijn, misschien gevaarlijk zijn, onderdeel zijn van een groter complot. Wij Europeanen hebben dit eerder gezien en elke volgende generatie denkt: wij gaan hier niet in mee. Welnu, dit is onze tijd, onze verantwoordelijkheid. Daarom roepen wij op als Groenen: jullie politici, om jullie morele verantwoordelijkheid te nemen.
Geen haatzaaiende of stigmatiserende taal, geen xenofobe of islamofobe verdachtmakingen. Ik kijk jullie hier vandaag recht in de ogen.
Le rapport présenté au centre nous affirme qu'un complot musulman se trame dans notre dos, sans la moindre preuve. Cette paranoïa islamophobe, nous l'avons déjà vécue en France l'an dernier. Résultat, un rapport du ministère de l'Intérieur présenté en grande pompe devant un conseil de défense, mais aussitôt démoli par les spécialistes du sujet et une commission d'enquête à l'Assemblée nationale qui fut un véritable flop. Alors chers collègues, si nous voulons vraiment travailler sur les entrismes qui menacent la démocratie, voici quelques pistes qui méritent notre attention. Les États-Unis de Trump, par exemple, qui s'ingèrent dans nos affaires.
Elon Musk qui fait de l'ingérence dans les élections de nos pays. L'extrême droite qui a déjà gangrené la plupart des lieux de pouvoir européens. L'Arabie saoudite, le Qatar ou les Émirats arabes unis que vous courtisez ici même et qui financent le terrorisme et la guerre. Ou encore l'accueil par la Commission d'une délégation de représentants de talibans pour renvoyer les talibans, les Afghans et Afghanes chez eux. Qu'attendez-vous pour déposer des motions de résolution sur ces sujets ?
Alors nous défendrons réellement l'Europe.
Der politische Islam ist und bleibt eine Gefahr für unsere Demokratie und das habe ich selbst in meiner Familie erlebt. Als mein Papa damals ihn kritisiert hat, haben wir Staatsschutz bekommen, mitten in Deutschland. Die Muslimbruderschaft zeigt, Islamismus beginnt nicht erst mit Gewalt. Er wächst über Vereine und Jugendstrukturen. Und genau das haben Sie in Europa viel zu lange zugelassen.
Über Jahre wurden Parallelstrukturen geduldet. Und Radikalisierung beginnt lange bevor ein erster Anschlag entsteht. Deshalb fordern wir auch mit unseren Änderungsanträgen klare Konsequenzen. Keine Verfestigung von Parallelgesellschaften, keine öffentlichen Gelder für islamistische Netzwerke.
Und wir machen auch eines klar: Die Muslimbrüderschaft ist auch eine Gefahr für gut integrierte Muslime. Und da waren auch die Vereinigten Arabischen Emirate schlauer als wir hier in Europa. Sie haben die Muslimbrüderschaft schon bereits 2014 als Terrororganisation eingestuft. 2014. Und was haben wir 2015 gemacht?
Gerade an die Union gerichtet: Mit der offenen Grenzpolitik hat man ganz klar die Grundlage gelegt für solche radikal-islamistischen Strukturen. Und das bleibt unverzeihlich. Vielen Dank.
Grazie, onorevole. Prego, Commissario Brunner.
Magnus Brunner
Thank you very much, Chair, Minister, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you first of all for this debate, for a serious debate, valuable debate also. It shows actually how much this House cares about protecting both our freedoms and our security also. Many views were expressed and will be expressed, of course, this afternoon also, and they reflect actually a real tension.
On one side is the concern that suspicion of a whole community can deepen the sense of exclusion that extremists exploit. And on the other is the concern that if we are not vigilant, those who abuse our freedom could undermine our values from within. And both concerns of course are legitimate and both must guide us also. Our task is to find the balance, a confident democracy that confronts the extremists, yes, to also protect the believer and also relies on evidence and the rule of law. So the Commission is already acting on this basis, on prevention of radicalization, on terrorist financing and also on foreign influence and also on, as I mentioned before, on illegal content online.
And I think on this very day today, of this day of remembrance, let us leave this house united on one principle, at least one principle, we have more, but at least on one principle, that religion must never be abused for radicalization and for extremism. Thank you.
Grazie Commissario.
Prego onorevole Tobé.
Tomas Tobé
Fru talman, kollegor, Europeiska unionen bygger på frihet, demokrati, rättsstatens principer och mänskliga rättigheter. Och det här är värden som vi måste vara beredda att försvara i alla lägen. Vi ser hur islamistiska nätverk försöker utnyttja våra öppna samhällen och att EU-medel riskerar att hamna hos organisationer som står i direkt konflikt med europeiska värderingar. Muslimska brödraskapet har under lång tid bedrivit både en politisk och ideologisk verksamhet med ambitionen att skaffa sig inflytande över Europa. Det är dags att sätta stopp för det.
Europa ska vara öppet och fritt, men öppenhet får aldrig förväxlas med naivitet. Till vänstergrupperna här i plenum vill jag därför säga detta: att avfärda kritik mot islamistiska nätverk som intolerans är inte att försvara demokratin. Det är att blunda för de krafter som försöker utnyttja den.
Den som vill försvara ett öppet samhälle måste våga se när öppenheten missbrukas av krafter som vill nedmontera den. Det här handlar självklart inte om att kunna vara muslim eller inte, utan om islamism som politisk ideologi och som vi skadar Europa. Vänstern borde snarare vara allierad med Europa istället för att vara allierad med de islamister som sprider hat och hot i Europa. Tack.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Gracias presidente, comisario Brunner, una verdad y una cautela. La verdad es que el lema de la Unión Europea es unidos en la diversidad, y esa diversidad se fundamenta en la igual dignidad de todas las personas en el disfrute de sus derechos fundamentales que incluye la libertad religiosa consagrada en el artículo 10 de la Carta y además sin ninguna discriminación. Por tanto, la cautela es que tenemos que tener todas las alarmas cuando vemos que se pretende presentar a la comunidad islamista como centrífuga y por tanto intrusa en la diversidad europea.
Porque créame que para encontrar un equilibrio razonable, como usted ha expuesto, entre la libertad y la seguridad, nos encontrará a los socialistas a su lado. Pero para estigmatizar a toda una categoría de personas por su fe, por sus creencias, por su religión, nos encontrará enfrente, del mismo modo que lo estuvimos hace cien años cuando los nazis tanto odiaron a los judíos y ahora nos tienen enfrente las extremas derechas que tanto estigmatizan y odian a los musulmanes por serlo. Por tanto, libertad y seguridad sí, estigmatización de toda una categoría de personas bajo ningún concepto. Gracias, presidente.
Antonella Sberna
There is a blue card if you want. No, okay. Prego, onorevole Buxadé Villalba, prego.
Jorge Buxadé Villalba
Ser es defenderse. Así dijo un escritor español en el año 1934: toda identidad, toda nación requiere de una voluntad constante y activa de conservación frente a las amenazas. Para millones de europeos, el entrismo islámico es una amenaza existencial, una estrategia deliberada, metódica y a largo plazo empleada por las organizaciones islámicas para infiltrarse en las instituciones, las sociedades civiles, el ámbito académico con el objeto de subvertir el orden e imponer la Sharia, que es contraria a la civilización occidental.
Financiado por agentes externos, estatales o no, alrededor de mezquitas que operan como centros de expansión e infiltración bajo la excusa de una malentendida libertad religiosa. Separatismo cultural, promoción agresiva de la islamización de espacios comunes, el velo islámico en las mujeres, el cursos de lengua árabe, solicitudes de menús separados o cierre de escuelas públicas durante el Ramadán son solo algunos ejemplos. En nuestras calles, la sharía es ya ley por la complicidad de la islamoizquierda que no está ni presente y la cobardía de otros. El Príncipe en Ceuta o el Raval en Barcelona son zonas donde ya no rige la ley civil y nosotros, con millones de europeos, exigimos poner fin a este suicidio programado. Ser es defenderse.
Rima Hassan
Le parti de votre président de groupe a été fondé par des anciens collaborateurs. Monsieur Bardella, son fondateur Jean-Marie Le Pen a été condamné pour antisémitisme et aujourd'hui, maintenant, les musulmans sont votre nouvelle cible. Ceux-là mêmes qui ont libéré l'Europe, ceux-là mêmes qui ont rempli nos usines. Alors, je suis musulmane, je suis élue de la République, députée et je vais rester ici à vous écouter et vous combattre.
Jorge Buxadé Villalba
Yo de los verdes no he dicho nada.
Si usted se considera dentro de la categoría de islamoizquierda, fenomenal, lo ha reconocido. Pero vivimos en Europa y se tienen que asumir las costumbres, la cultura y sobre todo nuestra ley civil. El entrismo islámico es pretender subvertir el orden, acabar con la igualdad del hombre y de la mujer, acabar con la democracia, acabará con las verdaderas libertades. ¿O existen en los países islamistas la libertad religiosa, la libertad de establecimiento, la libertad de circulación, la libertad de comercio, la libertad educativa? ¿Existe todo eso?
Gracias.
Mevrouw de voorzitter, beste collega's, ik was zelf als moslima geboren. Ik zeg het u, we moeten niet naïef zijn. De islamisten hebben geduld, veel geduld. Ze infiltreren ons democratisch systeem als een sluipend gif, tot hier in het Europees Parlement toe. Organisaties zoals FEMYSO die banden hebben met de Moslimbroeders mogen hier ongestoord lobbyen.
Assita Kanko
Er wordt naar hun geluisterd en ze ontvangen zelfs Europese subsidies. Krijgen ze kritiek of worden er lastige vragen gesteld, dan doen ze zich voor als slachtoffers en trekken ze de kaart van de islamofobie.
Het is hoog tijd voor een echte coherente Europese strategie tegen de Moslimbroeders en de Commissie mag zich daarbij niet langer wegstoppen achter excuses. De netwerken moeten worden blootgelegd, de financieringsstromen moeten worden afgesneden en de Moslimbroeders moeten eindelijk op de EU-terreurlijst worden geplaatst. Laat ons de moslims in Europa de kans geven om een leven zelf uit te bouwen zonder de dreigende schaduw van de politieke islam. En laat ons in Europa ook resoluut kiezen voor de verlichting, het secularisme en de gelijkheid tussen man en vrouw. Daarover sluiten we geen compromissen.
Dank u wel voorzitter. We kunnen dit debat niet voeren zonder ook stil te staan inderdaad bij de aanslag van Hamas drie jaar geleden op Israël, een groepering die historisch en ook ideologisch sterk gelinkt is aan het Moslimbroederschap. En voorzitter, dat mag ook nooit meer gebeuren. Want voorzitter, hoe tolerant zijn we naar de intoleranten? Al te lang onderschatten wij de invloed van de politieke islam op onze samenleving.
Heel bewust wordt stukje bij beetje onze waarde ondermijnd zonder dat wij dit doorhebben. De rechten van minderheden en vrouwenemancipatie, kunnen zijn en houden van wie je wilt en individuele vrijheid en autonomie.
Malik Azmani
Voorzitter, we zijn te naïef en we moeten duidelijk zijn waar we staan. Willen we onze vrijheid en waarden beschermen tegen deze ondermijning van onze samenleving, dan moeten we grenzen stellen. Daarom vraag ik: kom tot een gezamenlijke strategie om buitenlandse beïnvloeding te voorkomen. Stop EU-financiering van instellingen die banden hebben met de politieke islam en kom met een Europese lijst waar haatpredikers zodat zij niet langer Europa in kunnen komen. De tijd van naïviteit, voorzitter, is voorbij.
Dank.
Tomáš Zdechovský
Mr. Asmani, I fully agree with with all what you said. I really very appreciated that you link Hamas with Muslim Brotherhoods. But what do you think about the situation what is one week ago in Netherlands, that one of Hamas members studied in Netherlands on the university and he received the some money for this studium? Do you think that this is really what we needed in European Union?
Malik Azmani
Well, thank you very much for addressing this question. I think and also my party in the Netherlands think that we need to be very critical who we allow and enter also the European Union. We need to prevent to be naive and that was also my main task of my point of view. We are naive if we talk about political Islam and indeed Muslim Brotherhood has its origin from the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas. So we need not to be naive in this point of view.
So yes, I agree, we need to be critical who we enter and allow the European Union. That's the reason why I'm always also strict on migration. We need to know who we allow to enter the European Union. Thank you very much.
Milan Mazurek
Send them back. That's for you, progressive liberals, because it was you who destroyed Western Europe. Look at the state of Western European cities. They are in flames. Why?
Because they are controlled by violent criminals, rapists, murderers and radical Islamists like Muslim Brotherhood. Who let those people in? Who supported them? Who created all of this environment? Did you see the video from France?
Young people of migration descent calling for killing of police in the name of Allah.
Are you happy about that? Are you satisfied to finally see such a things? Why we don't have it in Slovakia? Why we don't have it in Poland? What is the difference?
Milan Mazurek
We did not follow your insane migration policies. But you are not satisfied only with the destruction of Western Europe. You want also the destruction of Central and Eastern Europe, and that's why you are forcing us into acceptance of the same people that destroyed the West, the same people who are raping women and children in the streets of Western European cities. We need to defeat you and start with mass deportations from Europe.
Rima Hassan
Monsieur le député, savez-vous ce qui se passe en France ? Ce sont des lycéens qui se battent pour avoir des conditions d'enseignement dignes, pour avoir des professeurs, pour voir leur établissement rénové. Il pleut dans certaines classes, d'autres n'ont même pas de toilettes, et vous accusez les musulmans d'être à l'origine de cela ? Non, vous devez vous retourner vers les politiques qui n'ont pas été menées. Alors moi je vous le dis, je pense que votre propos doit être vraiment souligné et ne pas rester ainsi.
Milan Mazurek
Dear MEP, we also have protests of students in Slovakia, but they are not setting cities in flame. Why ? Why the students, when they are protesting in Poland, are not attacking and setting into fire the firemen ? Why it is happening in France ? You know the difference ?
Because the structure of population in our countries, which is not affected by this mass migration, is just different than in France. That's the answer, and it's very simple. You just reject it and lying to all the people in Europe.
Chers collègues, l'Union européenne n'a pas mesuré l'enjeu. C'est la survie de son héritage de liberté, d'égalité et d'État de droit qui est menacée. Par naïveté et sentiment de supériorité, elle a laissé ses principes être détournés puis retournés contre elle comme des armes. Faute de critères clairs, elle persiste à financer des organisations qui travaillent à leur mise à mort. Agissons.
Malika Sorel
Interdire les Frères musulmans, fermer les lieux de culte comme en Jordanie et Égypte, dissoudre leurs associations, combattre leur stratégie d'entrisme dans le sport, l'éducation et la charité, c'est urgent. Traçons leurs financements, réseaux et liens avec le trafic de drogue et le blanchiment. Chers collègues, l'extrême droite, en amalgamant tous les musulmans et...
Děkuji, pane předsedající, milí kolegové, milé kolegyně. Já myslím, že je potřeba do tohoto tématu vzít trošku racionality. My tady nebojujeme proti všem muslimům. Řada muslimů jsou lidé, kteří se plně integrují a jsou i součástí našeho parlamentu. Ale my říkáme něco jiného.
Tomáš Zdechovský
Existuje něco jako politický islám, který je nebezpečný, který bohužel radikalizuje mladé, bohužel upírá ženám jejich práva, bohužel přináší do naší společnosti rozdělování a přináší do naší společnosti témata jako právo šaría, které opravdu je neslučitelné s demokratickými hodnotami. Muslimské bratrstvo je organizace, která se chová podobně jako mafie. A tak je potřeba k ní přistupovat. Řada zemí už ji dala na list teroristických organizací. Ona vlastně ve skutečnosti se tváří jako sociální, jako charitativní organizace, která se snaží vlastně pomáhat lidem v nouzi.
Ale ve své podstatě dělá ten opak. Tady už pan kolega z Nizozemí výborně zmínil, že ten link mezi Hamásem a Muslimským bratrstvem, právě ta pomoc teroristům ukrýt se v Evropě, ta je neskutečná a ta síť je velmi důmyslná. Proto potřebujeme, pane komisaři, evropskou strategii. Proto potřebujeme pomáhat tady spolu. A nebudu tady vykřikovat jako kolega Mazurek, který tady takhle křičí a pořád tady dělá.
To dělají fašisté. Je potřeba hovořit klidně, jasně a rozumně. Děkuju.
Marco Tarquinio
Grazie, Presidente, colleghe, colleghi. Prendo la parola qui oggi per denunciare una pericolosa deriva e per chiedere a tutti noi di fare la propria parte per fermarla, a partire dal voto sulla risoluzione sull'estremismo islamista. La volontà di costruire più sicurezza contro gli estremismi non può diventare pretesto per attaccare lo spazio civico. Perciò, signor Commissario, è grave la decisione della Commissione europea di definanziare ENAR, la più grande rete antirazzista europea. È grave e inaccettabile.
Questo Parlamento non può e non deve avallarlo. Rifletteteci. Ciò che oggi, senza fondamento, a seguito di campagne diffamatorie, viene fatto contro ENAR, domani potrà essere fatto a discrezione contro altri. La lotta all'odio non deve essere piegata a propaganda contro una comunità religiosa, che sia cristiana, ebraica o musulmana, e neppure contro reti umanitarie e aconfessionali come ENAR. L'impegno antirazzista significa difendere la democrazia di tutti.
Tomislav Sokol
Hvala lijepa. Moje pitanje vama je vrlo jednostavno: zbog čega vi na europskoj ljevici uporno umanjujete i tražite razloge kako relativizirati prijetnju političkog islama? Politički islam je uvjerljivo najveća prijetnja danas za, ja bih rekao, praktički svu budućnost Europe i europskog načina života. I to nije nekakva tlapnja, to nije nekakva teorija, dovoljno je da izađete iz ove zgrade i vidjet ćete to na ulicama francuskih gradova vrlo brzo. Dakle, zašto na europskoj ljevici se uporno relativizira opasnost političkog islama, zašto se uvijek pokušava kriviti nekog drugog, govoriti o tome kako netko napada vjerske slobode i tako dalje?
Kad ćete se probuditi u realnom životu i početi rješavati pravi problem? Hvala lijepa.
Marco Tarquinio
Caro collega, io le ho parlato di un problema preciso: il definanziamento di una realtà che lavora contro il razzismo e contro la violenza e contro la semina nell'odio delle nostre società. Questa è una sfida da raccogliere. La violenza nelle strade è qualcosa che va affrontata alle sue radici quando c'è un disagio sociale e non va etnicizzata. Questa è un'altra delle derive che stiamo prendendo in Europa ed è pericoloso e grave, perché le proteste sono sempre qualcosa che interpella la nostra società.
Gli stati democratici sanno rispondere all'altezza.
António Tânger Corrêa
Senhor Presidente, caros colegas. Eu conheço muito bem a Irmandade Muçulmana. Eu servi no Egito, na Jordânia, no Sudão, no Catar, no Omã. Eu combati a Irmandade Muçulmana no Norte de África. Eles perderam, a democracia ganhou.
E agora viraram-se para a Europa e para os Estados Unidos para minar as nossas sociedades. Eu repito, para minar as nossas sociedades. Porque o objetivo da Irmandade Muçulmana, que apoia 90% dos movimentos terroristas do mundo, no mundo, não é na Europa e em África, é no mundo, é precisamente o domínio do Islão político. Apoiados pelo Catar e pela Turquia, fortemente apoiados, nós não podemos continuar a deixar que eles ajam impunemente no território europeu.
A União Europeia sabe, nós informamos, os serviços secretos informam, têm a obrigação de saber e têm a obrigação de cortar os financiamentos a estas organizações. Vou-vos dizer uma coisa, no dia em que o meu partido tomar o poder em Portugal, que não é um dia daqui a tanto tempo, vamos ilegalizar a Irmandade Muçulmana. Muito obrigado.
Antonella Sberna
There is a blue card. Please, Mr. Asensio, you have the floor. Prego, pardon.
Jaume Asens Llodrà
Microphone. You have to switch on.
Sorry. Thank you. Sí, señor diputado, usted dice que hay que poner a los Hermanos Musulmanes en la lista de terroristas y yo quiero preguntarle con qué criterio y si ese criterio también se lo aplica a las organizaciones de colonos que asesinan, que expulsan a palestinos, que queman y que el propio embajador de Estados Unidos ha dicho que son terroristas y de hecho también lo han dicho dos expresidentes de Israel. ¿Cree que también debería aplicárseles a ellos o a ellos no?
António Tânger Corrêa
Eu acho que este painel é sobre influência da Irmandade Muçulmana e não sobre os colonatos em Israel, sobre os quais eu também tenho fortes críticas. Mas nesse caso concreto, se o senhor deputado quiser falar sobre esse assunto, tenho o maior prazer em falar quer no hemiciclo, se for agendado esse tema, quer fora do hemiciclo quando quiser, porque eu também fui, também servi Israel e conheço bem os colonatos. Quanto a este assunto, não tem nenhuma comparação. Eu falo do mundo, falo de terrorismo global. Muito obrigado.
Stefano Cavedagna
Svegliati Europa, il fondamentalismo islamico è già dentro i nostri confini e ha già prodotto attentati, violenze, discriminazioni, persino l'applicazione della Sharia in alcune città dove lo Stato più non arriva e ha perso il controllo. Il fondamentalismo islamico, come è stato provato, arriva anche grazie all'immigrazione clandestina incontrollata e con la compiacenza di una certa sinistra, socialisti e progressisti in tutta Europa che in barba di quel fenomeno per il quale il principio di laicismo deve essere tutelato, ci dicono che non si può mettere più il crocifisso nelle scuole ma non fanno nulla per impedire finanziamenti occulti che arrivano ad alcuni finti luoghi di culto.
Ed è per questo allora che noi chiediamo trasparenza sui finanziamenti, chiediamo trasparenza sui luoghi di culto, chiediamo che venga fatto luce su quello che viene predicato dagli imam. Vietare il burqa e il niqab a scuola, come fatto dal governo Meloni. Chiediamo che i Fratelli Musulmani siano annoverati tra le organizzazioni terroristiche. E se c'è anche qualcuno qua in questo Parlamento che vuole distruggere l'identità e le tradizioni della nostra Europa, beh, ci sarà Fratelli d'Italia e i conservatori ad impedirlo. Grazie.
Laurence Farreng
Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Commissaire, les tentatives d'entrisme et d'ingérence sont un danger avéré pour nos démocraties et nos valeurs fondamentales. Nous devons les combattre avec fermeté et vite parce que oui, il y a en Europe une nébuleuse d'associations islamistes dont l'agenda est la conquête du pouvoir par un islamisme politique. Face à ce danger, je regrette vivement le désengagement de nos collègues de gauche et je leur demande de prendre leurs responsabilités comme nous le faisons, avec lucidité, sans excès et sans amalgame. Parce que oui, nous devons combattre l'entrisme sous toutes ses formes, d'où qu'il vienne, avec la même force, et je voudrais donc dire à l'extrême droite de cet hémicycle que nous ne sommes pas dupes de leur instrumentalisation.
Oui, ils sont très prompts à lutter contre l'entrisme islamiste, mais on ne les entend jamais sur les ingérences russes. Nous voyons clair dans leur jeu, nous refuserons donc leur stigmatisation contre tous les musulmans, tout simplement. Monsieur le Commissaire, nous l'avons demandé à de multiples reprises, la Commission doit être intransigeante et faire appliquer avec la plus grande rigueur des critères clairs d'attribution des fonds européens. Nous comptons sur vous parce qu'il en dépend de notre démocratie. Merci beaucoup.
Thank you. Der Islam unterwandert Institutionen und Verbände und will unsere offene und freie Gesellschaft zerstören. Wer das unterbinden will, müsste aber die unerträgliche Verharmlosung dieser Friedensreligion beenden und es unterlassen, Kritiker mit dem lächerlichen Vorwurf der Islamophobie zu pathologisieren. Ich bin nicht islamophob. Ich habe nämlich keine Angst vor dem Islam.
Allerdings lehne ich den Islam als frauenverachtende und totalitäre Ideologie ganz entschieden ab. Und das ist mein gutes Recht und zur Verteidigung des liberalen Rechtsstaats auch dringend geboten.
Im Islam gibt es keine Trennung von Staat und Religion, keine Gleichberechtigung und keine Religionsfreiheit. Letztere umfasst Religionen kritisieren und karikieren zu dürfen, ohne um sein Leben fürchten zu müssen. Deswegen sage ich aus vollster Überzeugung: Der Islam gehört nicht nach Europa und zu Europa gehört er erst recht nicht. Vielen Dank.
Antonella Sberna
There is a blue card, Madame Anderson, there is a blue card if you want from Mrs. Kudere. Prego onorevole Perez.
Alvise Pérez
Muchísimas gracias presidente, estaremos todos de acuerdo al menos en que Hamás es una organización terrorista, ¿no? Más hoy que es el tercer aniversario de una de las mayores masacres contra población civil. Pues estamos hablando de Hermanos Musulmanes que son la rama internacional de Hamás. ¿Cómo es posible que una lleve en como en fin organización terrorista registrada a nivel internacional más de 26 años y estemos aquí discutiendo no ya si la ilegalizamos sino si le seguimos dando o no dinero público?
Y mientras tanto en comisión escucho como insultan algunos compañeros a alguien que lleva 10 años haciéndonos el trabajo sucio que es Jalifa Haftar, el general de Libia que echó de Bengasi a los que quemaron el consulado americano o que combatió el Estado Islámico y especialmente a los que degollaron a más de 21 cristianos en una playa. Al comisario aquí presente evidentemente le sonará el nombre porque hace un año ustedes la Comisión Europea fueron a Bengasi a suplicarle ayuda para que nos ayudaran con las pateras del Mediterráneo. ¿Y cómo se lo agradecen? Defendiendo a terroristas y estoy escuchando por algunos compañeros socialistas en comisión llamándoles asesinos por ejecutar a inocentes. Yo les he mandado aquí fotos a muchos de ustedes por email sobre cómo tres hombres de rodilla fusilan son fusilados por esta gente, cómo sus inocentes Hermanos Musulmanes enseñan una cabeza cortada a unos niños.
En fin, por favor y ya acabo solo pido que se imponga el sentido común más allá de ideologías e ilegalicemos de una maldita vez a gente responsable de asesinatos masivos.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, no no no. Grazie onorevole, c'è un cartellino blu e non si possono mostrare immagini. Okay. Prego onorevole Zoido Álvarez.
Juan Ignacio Zoido Álvarez
Muchas gracias presidenta, comisario.
La naturaleza del islam es dominar, no ser dominado, imponer sus leyes sobre todas las naciones y extender su poder al planeta entero. Estas palabras no son mías, son de Hassan al-Banna, fundador de los Hermanos Musulmanes y máximo exponente del islamismo radical infiltrado en las sociedades europeas. Los europeos sabemos lo que hay. Sabemos lo que pretenden los islamistas y ellos mismos lo dicen claramente. Europa garantiza la libertad religiosa y así debe de seguir haciéndolo, pero hay un enorme abismo entre garantizar esa libertad y amparar a aquellos que pretenden utilizarla contra nosotros, contra los pilares y los valores de nuestra democracia.
Por eso debemos establecer unas líneas rojas claras e infranqueables frente al islamismo. Ninguna ley islámica puede estar por encima de nuestras leyes democráticas. Ninguna financiación extranjera opaca puede acabar en manos de organizaciones radicales y ninguna tolerancia merecen aquellos que cuestionan la igualdad entre hombres y mujeres. Integrarse en Europa significa respetar sus leyes y sus valores democráticos. Europa está ahora centrada en afrontar amenazas externas desde Rusia e Irán, pero no por ello podemos ignorar las amenazas que existen también dentro de nuestro continente, en nuestros barrios y en nuestras ciudades.
Antonella Sberna
Libertad sí, tolerancia también, ingenuidad nunca. Muchas gracias.
Jaume Asens Llodrà
Sí, señor Zoido, a usted que es una persona culta le quería hacer una pregunta porque están utilizando ciertos argumentos para pedir la ilegalización de los Hermanos Musulmanes como que son reaccionarios, que tienen una red internacional que interfieren en la política, que algunos han cometido delitos. Y yo cuando oigo eso pienso pues en ellos, pero también pienso en el Opus Dei. El Opus Dei para muchos es una organización criminal que tiene un modus de organización criminal, tiene muchas denuncias por muchos delitos de sus miembros y tampoco como respeta la igualdad entre hombres y mujeres a la que usted estaba apelando. Entonces mi pregunta es si ha visto el documental del Opus Dei de Mònica Terribas y si está de acuerdo con esta opinión.
Juan Ignacio Zoido Álvarez
Veo que tiene usted alguna acogida entre algunos miembros de este Parlamento. Desde luego no comparto la opinión que usted ha hecho.
Mire, yo creo que tenemos que quitarnos la careta de una vez y tenemos que defender las libertades, la igualdad entre hombres y mujeres y que la financiación sepamos de dónde viene y con qué fines se utilizan. Y por tanto yo digo que hay un abismo entre lo que es la libertad pero garantizar al mismo tiempo que se utiliza para el bien y no para atacar a las sociedades democráticas donde a mucha gente se le ha acogido. Por tanto no voy a polemizar con usted porque comparar con el islamismo radical al Opus Dei es un insulto.
Grazie, onorevole. Prego, onorevole Garraud. Prego.
Jean-Paul Garraud
L'entrisme islamiste n'est pas une menace lointaine. Il est déjà à l'œuvre partout, ainsi qu'au cœur même de nos institutions européennes, il faudrait certainement d'abord balayer devant notre porte. Car depuis des années, les Frères musulmans et leurs réseaux développent une stratégie d'influence méthodique. Le FEMYSO, régulièrement décrit comme proche de la mouvance frériste, a encore pu organiser le 21 septembre dernier une conférence au Parlement européen malgré nos alertes répétées. Jusqu'à quand accepterons-nous ces complaisances ?
Cette semaine, lors de nos hommages aux victimes des attaques terroristes du 7 octobre 2023, et je prononce ces mots le jour anniversaire de ces odieux attentats, Rima Hassan, députée dans ce Parlement, a renversé ici même les drapeaux européen et israélien.
Un tel geste est inadmissible car antisémite et doit être sanctionné avec la plus grande fermeté. Il est temps d'agir, d'identifier les réseaux islamistes, de couper leur financement, de contrôler leur accès à nos institutions et de combattre sans faiblesse l'antisémitisme. Nos institutions européennes ne doivent plus être naïves face à l'islamisme, nous devons être lucides, fermes et déterminés, chez les patriotes que nous sommes. Je vous remercie.
Antonella Sberna
Monsieur Garraud, il y a une carte bleue si vous voulez. Prego, onorevole Scuderi.
Thank you, Mr Garraud, you're not scared of me like Mrs Anderson. So, stiamo tutti parlando dei valori europei, i valori...
Grazie Mr Garraud, lei non ha paura di me come la sua collega Mrs Anderson. Ma stiamo tutti parlando dei valori europei, qua ci sta facendo una gran piazza sui valori europei.
Speaker 362
Eppure i valori europei sono i valori dell'inclusione, il valore dell'accoglienza, i valori della laicità, perché la laicità vuol dire non non volere le religioni, ma rispettare tutte le religioni. I valori europei sono quelli della difesa, la difesa delle organizzazioni giovanili che cercano di rappresentare dei giovani che in questo momento sono discriminati. Voi non avete vergogna di venire meno a questi valori europei e di discriminare delle persone solo sulla base della loro religione, anche e soprattutto se giovani?
Je n'en ai aucune honte madame. En fait vous confondez tout, vous mélangez tout. Je ne parle pas ici de religion, je parle d'islamisme. Et l'islamisme n'a rien à voir finalement avec la religion et je ne confonds pas l'islam effectivement avec l'islamisme. Donc vous ne voulez pas l'entendre, vous voulez nous classer dans un mouvement extrémiste ce qui n'est absolument pas le cas des patriotes.
Jean-Paul Garraud
Nous sommes simplement face à une mouvance terroriste qui cause donc dans notre société partout des horreurs dont celle évidemment du 7 octobre 2023. Et quand vous avez une de nos collègues, de nos députés donc ici au Parlement européen qui commet les actes qui ont été commis, et bien il faut les condamner. Et vous feriez mieux vous de les condamner d'abord et avant tout.
Ça serait l'honneur de votre parti que de le faire plutôt que de tout mélanger et surtout de vouloir faire tout ce que vous voulez faire à notre détriment alors que nous sommes les défenseurs nous aussi de ces grandes valeurs.
Islam betyder underkastelse. Og det er præcis hvad I gør på venstrefløjen. Med jeres berøringsangst og pinlige naivitet tillader I, at en udemokratisk fjende prædiker had og ondskab mod Europa. Organisationer som Hizb ut-Tahrir og Det Muslimske Broderskab ønsker at undergrave vores samfund. De ønsker at omdanne Europa til et kalifat, og med hjælp fra jer på venstrefløjen er de godt i gang.
Kristoffer Storm
Stille og roligt giver I efter og tillader flere og flere muslimske særkrav i det offentlige. Som folkevalgte i Europa er det vores forbandede pligt at beskytte vores befolkning, vores kultur og vores normer, som samfundet er bygget på. Derfor bør det stå først for enhver politiker at bekæmpe islams indflydelse på vores hverdag og på vores samfund. Se på Libanon. Se på Iran og se på hvad der sker rundt omkring i Europa i øjeblikket, ikke mindst i Frankrig.
Det er konsekvensen af at give islam for meget magt, og det er, hvad man kan kalde underkastelse, præcis som I har gjort i venstrefløjen i årtier.
Antonella Sberna
Mr. Storm, there is a blue card. Do you accept? Yes. Please, Mr. Perez.
Alvise Pérez
Muchas gracias, presidente. Lamento que a veces vemos cuatro o cinco tarjetas azules seguidas a ciertos compañeros y los que tenemos un posicionamiento ideológico contrario o diferente no. Yo he escuchado con atención su intervención, se la agradezco mucho y teniendo en cuenta, es una pregunta muy sencilla, teniendo en cuenta que una de las principales reivindicaciones de Hermanos Musulmanes es la construcción masiva de centros de culto para la radicalización de jóvenes y teniendo en cuenta también el principio de reciprocidad, ¿qué opina usted sobre que prohibamos la construcción de mezquitas en Europa si esos países de origen o esas personas prohíben la construcción de iglesias? Muchas gracias.
Jamen mange tak for det spørgsmål. Jeg synes, det er vigtigt, at vi forbyder udenlandske aktører at opføre moskeer i Europa. Det skal ikke være muligt for en organisation som Det Muslimske Broderskab med støtte fra Tyrkiet eller Qatar, eller hvor de får deres finansiering fra, at være med til at bygge moskeer og på den måde undergrave vores samfund. For det er jo det, vi ser rigtig mange steder.
Da vi sidste sidste gang vi mødtes her i Strasbourg, havde jeg selv et ændringsforslag med, om vi netop skulle forsøge at fjerne støtten, den økonomiske støtte til de her organisationer, som jeg som jeg nævner. Så jeg er fuldstændig enig med spørgeren.
Marcin Sypniewski
Przyjeżdżamy tu z krajów, które jeszcze są normalne, czyste i bezpieczne, takich jak Polska, i nie możemy się nadziwić, co wyście zrobili z Europą, co wyście zrobili ze swoimi państwami. Tabuny obcych kulturowo ludzi, brud i śmieci na ulicach i jeszcze ten brak bezpieczeństwa. I jeszcze żyjecie w jakichś gettach i patrzycie, jak ci przybysze niszczą waszą własność, jak palą opony, palą samochody i zagrażają porządkowi publicznemu. I jeszcze do tego tolerujecie i finansujecie organizacje islamistyczne. Coś niebywałego.
Tutaj w Strasburgu, pod samym nosem Parlamentu Europejskiego, powstaje jeden z największych meczetów w Europie. Buduje go Milli Görüş, turecki ruch islamistyczny powiązany ze środowiskiem Bractwa Muzułmańskiego. Raport francuskiego Ministerstwa Spraw Wewnętrznych stwierdza te powiązania wprost. I pokazuje coś jeszcze. To nie jest tylko kwestia meczetu, bo za tym idą szkoły, stowarzyszenia, centra kulturalne, edukacja i działalność społeczna.
Sylvie Robert
Religia staje się narzędziem ucisku. A wiecie co jest najbardziej absurdalne? Że Egipt, Arabia Saudyjska i inne kraje arabskie zakazały działalności, a wy ciągle się nad tym zastanawiacie. Dziękuję bardzo.
Loránt Vincze
Grazie Presidente, Commissioner Brunner, dear colleagues, I believe that for too long we have been too naive. We assumed that when we speak about diversity, tolerance and fundamental rights, everybody understands these concepts in the same way. Unfortunately, this is not always the reality. When we speak about a European strategy to counter Islamist entryism, we are not speaking about targeting a religion or a community. We are speaking about defending the soul of Europe, our dignity, our freedom, our democracy, equality between woman and men and the rule of law.
We have been seen organizations receiving EU funding that have been subsequently been identified by national authorities as having links to the Muslim Brotherhood network. In the case of Islamic Relief Worldwide, more than 34 million in Euro funding has been reported between 2007 and 2020.
Loránt Vincze
Other cases include Islamic Relief Germany and FEMYSO and many, many other cases. Europe needs much greater transparency over foreign financing and influence involving religious and associative structures. We scrutinize the financing of European political parties and foundations precisely because money can translate into political influence. Yet, when political influence is exercised through entirely different structures, do we even know who finances them? Who is connected to who and who ultimately stands behind these networks?
This is what a European strategy against Islamist entryism must answer. Obviously, protecting EU money is important, but protecting our citizens, our democracy and the soul of Europe is even more important.
Merci Madame la Présidente, Monsieur le Commissaire. Près de 60 millions d'euros, c'est l'ordre de grandeur des financements européens que nous avons identifiés au bénéfice d'organisations controversées pour leurs liens allégués avec la mouvance islamiste ou les Frères musulmans.
Pendant que leur réseau se structure à travers l'Europe, Bruxelles finance, invite, accrédite. Car l'entrisme islamiste ne connaît pas de frontières. Ces réseaux non plus. Notre réponse ne peut donc plus être dispersée. L'Europe doit enfin se doter d'une véritable stratégie contre l'influence des Frères musulmans.
Fabrice Leggeri
Cela signifie retracer l'usage de chaque euro de financement européen, contrôler l'argent venu notamment du Qatar et de Turquie, empêcher les prédicateurs étrangers signalés pour radicalisation de circuler librement en Europe et fermer nos institutions aux organisations liées à ces réseaux. Mais surtout, cessons de tourner autour du sujet. Les Frères musulmans doivent être inscrits sur la liste européenne des organisations terroristes. On ne combat pas un réseau d'influence en lui laissant de l'argent, des relais et des portes ouvertes au cœur de nos institutions.
Merci Madame la Présidente.
Joachim Stanisław Brudziński
Grazie, pani przewodnicząca, panie komisarzu. Mam takie wrażenie déjà vu, kiedy przy okazji dyskusji na temat morderstw chrześcijan w Nigerii użyłem określenia pod adresem barbarzyńców, oszalałych z nienawiści morderców z Boko Haram, prowadząca wtedy obrady wasza koleżanka socjalistka przerwała mi, wyłączyła mikrofon i w sposób rezonerski stwierdziła, że używam mowy nienawiści i wykluczenia, ponieważ barbarzyńców z Boko Haram nazwałem barbarzyńcami. Dzisiaj, kiedy padają tutaj słowa prawdziwe, oparte o logikę arystotelesowską, to przedstawiciele, którzy bazują na neomarksistowskim bełkocie, krzyczą znowu w sposób bardzo emocjonalny, mówicie o tym, że jest to mowa nienawiści, jest to mowa wykluczenia. A prawda jest taka, żaden neomarksistowski bełkot nie jest w stanie pokonać zdrowej logiki Arystotelesa i w ramach tej zdrowej logiki chcę wam powiedzieć: islamizm jest zagrożeniem dla demokracji, praworządności i wartości europejskich, ponieważ jego celem ma być ustanowienie porządku politycznego opartego na szariacie. Wiąże się to z tworzeniem równoległych struktur społecznych, segregacją społeczną, ograniczeniem wolności jednostki i podporządkowania kobiet.
Będziecie pierwszymi ofiarami, jeżeli nie daj Boże ci szaleńcy z Bractwa Muzułmańskiego uzyskają takie wpływy, jak Boko Haram dzisiaj ma w Nigerii. Dziękuję bardzo.
Speaker 370
Merci Madame la Présidente, mes chers collègues, Monsieur le Commissaire.
Matthieu Valet
Nous commémorons aujourd'hui les massacres du 7 octobre commis par le Hamas et pourtant l'Union européenne laisse encore ses propres institutions devenir des terrains d'influence pour les Frères musulmans. Cet été, c'est-à-dire des années après les premières alertes dont Jean-Paul Garraud ici vous avez déjà écrit à plusieurs reprises, la Commission avait enfin annoncé ne plus financer directement cette organisation. Pourtant on apprend par la presse française qu'elle continue à bénéficier aujourd'hui de fonds européens. Plus grave encore, cette organisation continue d'être accueillie dans les enceintes européennes. Comment expliquer aux contribuables européens qu'une structure présentée dans un rapport officiel français comme appartenant à l'écosystème d'influence des Frères musulmans puisse encore bénéficier de l'argent et de la légitimité de nos institutions ?
Au même moment où la presse française révèle les passerelles entre des collectifs d'ultra-gauche, des militants proches de la France insoumise dont je vois ici qu'ils sont absents, ils portent bien leur nom la France islamiste, et dont les étudiants musulmans de France, une autre organisation rattachée à la mouvance frériste selon un rapport du gouvernement. L'extrême gauche et la Commission européenne, même cible de la stratégie d'influence et d'entrisme pour nous combattre de l'intérieur. Ces réseaux pullulent avec à chaque fois le prétexte facile de lutte contre les discriminations, un prétexte qui paralyse systématiquement la gauche lorsqu'on pointe du doigt ce laisser-faire. Les islamistes l'ont bien compris et font de vous des idiots utiles.
Πού είναι οι ευρωβουλευτές της αριστεράς, οι φίλοι του ΑΚΕΛ, τώρα που μιλάμε για τη Μουσουλμανική Αδελφότητα;
Αν μιλούσαμε για την Παλαιστίνη, θα έτρεχαν πρώτοι. Αγαπητοί συνάδελφοι, πλέον είμαστε αντιμέτωποι με δίκτυα επιρροής και προσπάθειες διείσδυσης του ισλαμισμού ακόμη και στους ίδιους τους ευρωπαϊκούς θεσμούς. Και εμείς τι κάνουμε; Ανοίγουμε πόρτες, δίνουμε πολιτική νομιμοποίηση, χτίζουμε τζαμιά και τους χρηματοδοτούμε. Κινδυνεύει η Ευρώπη να καταντήσει ισλαμικό χαλιφάτο από τις εμμονές ορισμένων.
Geadis Geadi
Δεν μπορούμε να παίζουμε με την ασφάλεια των Ευρωπαίων πολιτών. Μηδενική ανοχή απέναντι στη Μουσουλμανική Αδελφότητα και στα πλοκάμια του ισλαμισμού. Ζητούμε τερματισμό της χρηματοδότησης των οργανώσεων και των κρατών που χρησιμοποιούν τη Μουσουλμανική Αδελφότητα ως δούρειο ίππο και άμεση καταχώρισή της στον ευρωπαϊκό κατάλογο τρομοκρατικών οργανώσεων με επιβολή ουσιαστικών κυρώσεων. Σταματήστε να χρηματοδοτείτε την Τουρκία και να βλέπετε τον Ερντογάν να σας χαιρετά με τα τέσσερα δάχτυλα, χαρακτηριστικό συμβολισμό της Μουσουλμανικής Αδελφότητας. Ξυπνήστε επιτέλους, αυτός είναι ο Ερντογάν.
Antonella Sberna
No, no, no, non si possono esibire. Grazie onorevole, prego onorevole Birkholm, prego.
Islamiseringen i Danmark er i fuld gang.
Majbritt Birkholm
Et bederum på gymnasiet, et tørklæde på en lille pige i første klasse og halalmad i børnehaven. Og hver gang hedder det, at det bare er en lille ting, og hver gang rykker grænserne sig. Men vi skal ikke bøje nakken for politisk korrekthed, for de muslimske særkrav stopper aldrig, så vi bliver nødt til at sige stop. Bederummene skal lukkes, tørklædet skal ud af skolen, og halalmad skal ud af institutionerne. Og det her, det stopper ikke bare ved skoleporten, for vi skal også have igangsat massive hjemsendelser af de kriminelle uden dansk statsborgerskab, af udlændinge, der ikke forsørger sig selv, af flygtninge, hvis hjemland er i fred, og af de folk, som sætter koranen over grundloven, de skal hjem.
Vi vil gøre det så tæt på umuligt at leve en islamisk tilværelse i Danmark. Det er vores land, det er vores regler, og vi bøjer aldrig nakken. Tak for ordet.
Diese Debatte ist an Heuchelei mal wieder kaum zu überbieten. Seit vielen Jahren warnen wir bereits vor dem politischen Islam, der Muslimbruderschaft und den Gefahren für ganz Europa.
Petra Steger
Sie dagegen, Sie beschwichtigen, beschönigen und diffamieren all jene, die es wagen dagegen aufzustehen, als islamophob oder rechtsextreme. Sie schauen tatenlos zu, wie sich der radikale Islam in Europa durch Massenzuwanderung ausbreitet. Wir reden hier über Vereine, Netzwerke, die Bildungs- und Jugendarbeit betreiben, mit Kontakten zu Politik und Institutionen, die sich als harmlos präsentieren und in Wahrheit versuchen, unsere Gesellschaft zu islamisieren. Seit vielen Jahren gehen hier im Parlament diese Organisationen ein und aus und werden sogar noch mit europäischen Steuergeldern finanziert. Ja, bis heute fließen weiterhin öffentliche Gelder.
Diese EU ist genauso unglaubwürdig wie die gesamte ÖVP mit ihrem Verbotsgesetz. Wir brauchen kein neues weichgespültes Brüsseler Papier mit ein bisschen Extremismus verurteilen und betroffen schauen. Wir fordern keinen Cent mehr für islamistische Netzwerke, die Muslimbruderschaft gehört auf die Terrorliste und Verbot des politischen Islam, nicht irgendwann, sondern jetzt.
Anna Maria Cisint
Grazie Presidente, Commissario, colleghi. Beh, oggi voglio darvi una notizia. Abbiamo scoperto questa mattina a Padova il primo tribunale islamico d'Italia. Regola, vuole regolare le controversie civili e commerciali secondo la Sharia. Lo dice nella sua piattaforma.
Vuole sostituire le leggi italiane con la Sharia. L'islam politico con i Fratelli Musulmani ha già scassinato casa nostra. È già entrato nelle istituzioni, anche in questo Parlamento. E ora pretende di applicare la Sharia nei nostri paesi cancellando il nostro ordinamento e le nostre libertà. E noi dobbiamo proteggerci dalla radicalizzazione.
Ed è per questo che è urgente mettere al bando chi vuole uccidere la democrazia, la nostra democrazia, e azzerare le nostre leggi, proprio come vuol fare quel tribunale islamico di Padova. Sottovalutare, come ho sentito prima, è accettare la sostituzione, accettare la morte della democrazia e la sottomissione dei nostri paesi. Grazie.
Antonella Sberna
Grazie onorevole, chiudiamo le domande per il catch-the-eye. Prego onorevole Martin Frías, prego, pardon.
Jorge Martín Frías
Gracias.
¿Qué ha hecho la Comisión para combatir el islamismo? Financiar a la UNRWA, cuyos empleados participaron en la masacre del 7 de octubre, y organizaciones del entorno de los Hermanos Musulmanes, y demonizar a quienes advertimos de que el avance islamista es consecuencia directa de la política de fronteras abiertas. Y he de decir que ninguna estrategia funcionará sin reconocer antes esos errores. Porque tanto que se habla del escudo democrático mientras castigan a quien advierte del peligro y protegen a quien lo provoca, yo les invito a preguntarse con Oriana Fallaci: ¿qué clase de democracia es una democracia que veta el disenso, lo castiga y lo transforma en delito? ¿Qué tipo de democracia es una democracia que favorece a la teocracia, restablece el concepto de herejía, tortura y manda a la hoguera a sus hijos?
¿Qué tipo de democracia es una democracia en la que la minoría cuenta más que la mayoría y en contra de la mayoría tiraniza y chantajea? Muchas gracias.
Thank you Madam Chair. Tisztelt képviselőtársaim, a Muszlim Testvériség beszivárgása a francia állami intézményekbe jelzi: gyökereink, kultúránk elvesztésével mindennapi biztonságunk is veszélybe kerül.
György Hölvényi
Ha ez Franciaországban megtörténik, bárhol máshol is megtörténhet, ettől európai az ügy. Európa nemzetei különböző módon keresik identitásukat. Más a helyzet Közép- és Kelet-Európában és Nyugat-Európában. Láthatjuk, hogy a nyugat-európai identitásválság következtében legalábbis a baloldalon már tömeges az illegális migráció megítélése. Közép- és kelet-európai népei nem akarják ezt a nyugati példát követni, mi nem akarunk illegális bevándorlást, nem akarunk párhuzamos társadalmakat.
De ez nem iszlámellenesség. Azonban az a szervezet, amely tagadja, hogy mindenkit egyenlő mértékben megillető emberi méltóságot, ami puccsokban, merényletekben és terrortámadásokban működik közre, az nem muszlim és nem testvériség. Velük közösséget vállalni nem lehet. Hazánk és Európa többet jelent, mint az, hogy ez alkutárgya legyen. Köszönöm.
Grazie onorevole, prego onorevole Bonte.
Collega's, de Moslimbroederschap probeert onze samenleving op allerlei manieren te infiltreren.
Barbara Bonte
Via verenigingen, religieuze organisaties, onderwijs en zogenaamde middenveldorganisaties wordt een reusachtig netwerk uitgebouwd dat de politieke islam stap voor stap wil verankeren in Europa. En het meest hallucinante van al, deze EU financiert zelf voor miljoenen euro's organisaties met banden met dit bolwerk van islamitisch extremisme. En daar moet dringend een einde aan komen. Het wordt tijd dat eindelijk alle Europese structuren, geldstromen en politieke contacten van de Moslimbroederschap volledig in kaart worden gebracht. Elke Europese subsidie die gaat naar een organisatie die ermee verbonden is moet stante pede worden stopgezet.
En ja, de Moslimbroederschap moet op de Europese terreurlijst worden gezet. Dit is Europa, dit is ons continent en voor een vijfde colonne van islamitische extremisten is er geen plaats.
Speaker 380
A teraz poproszę jako ostatniego przygłoszonego rzecznika kolegę Vara, niech się patrzy.
Alexandre Varaut
En cet anniversaire du pogrom du Hamas contre Israël, je m'incline d'abord devant les victimes. J'aurais aimé considérer comme un signal ce débat sur l'islamisme mais qui n'intéresse manifestement pas la gauche qui a décidé de le déserter. Il n'y a pas que la gauche, le PPE est également absent.
Aucune stratégie n'existe. Comment s'en étonner quand on voit comment l'Union européenne agit ? L'Union européenne finance et invite dans ses murs des ONG liées aux Frères musulmans, finance des universités pro-Hamas, des projets portés par des ONG turques islamistes. L'Union européenne pourrait-elle lutter contre ce qu'elle alimente ? Tout au plus reconnaît-elle à mi-voix les financements qu'elle accorde avant de maintenir ces financements une fois la pression retombée.
L'Union européenne n'a aucune stratégie. Les islamistes en ont une, et ils ont un rêve qui sera pour nous un cauchemar. L'Europe ne sera pas de taille à lutter tant qu'elle reniera ses nations et son passé, car les peuples sans légende sont condamnés à mourir de froid.
Martin Hojsík
And now we come to the catch-the-eye. I have, if I count properly, eight requests for catch-the-eye, and we are just on time, so I will be able to accommodate all of them. So let's start with Mr. Mavrides from S&D, please.
Costas Mavrides
Thank you, Mr. President.
On this day three years ago, Hamas terrorists committed unspeakable crimes against men, women, and children. No civilized person can remain silent about such atrocities. But specifically regarding Muslim Brotherhood, no longer relates to violence or extremist cells, but are now funding mosques, associations, schools, charities, and networks through which they promote radical political Islam. This is not a matter, Mr. Commissioner, of ideology, it's a reality. However, we all know who is the elephant in the room.
We know who is the real boss. We know who is the supporter and promoter of Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood. He has a name. He is the one that some in this House and even outside, maybe Mr. Commissioner yourself, consider today as a strategic partner of the EU. Who is this?
The neo-Sultan in Ankara, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
Silvia Sardone
Per anni vi siete sottomessi all'Islam, ora basta, basta. Per anni abbiamo visto vostri inaccettabili finanziamenti a realtà islamiste, convegni ed eventi con associazioni legate ai Fratelli Musulmani, campagne di comunicazione con immagini di donne con il velo islamico. Per anni il Parlamento europeo ha favorito le attività di chi sogna di imporre la Sharia in Europa e di calpestare i valori dell'Occidente. Inoltre ci siamo stancati della retorica sull'islamofobia quando in tutta Europa, oltre all'antisemitismo, cresce un preoccupante odio anticristiano con aggressioni e vandalismi contro le chiese. Serve una svolta in Europa per difendere i nostri valori, i diritti delle donne, la nostra identità.
Di fronte alla minaccia islamista non dobbiamo assolutamente piegarci. Essere significa difendersi. Grazie.
Thank you, Chair. Voorzitter, commissaris, niet welkom in Mekka, niet welkom in Medina, wel in Brussel, Amsterdam en Den Haag. De Moslimbroederschap, haar zenuwcentrum ligt in Brussel, terwijl de Emiraten, Saoedi-Arabië en Jordanië haar volledig verbieden. Bakermat Egypte zette haar op de terreurlijst.
Weten die landen het beter dan wij? Franse veiligheidsdiensten stelden in 2025 terecht vast: de broederschap infiltreert onze instituties. Er is maar één conclusie: een Europees verbod, ook op gelieerde organisaties en plaatsing op de terreurlijst. Hamas komt voort uit de Moslimbroederschap. De rode lijn demonstratie in Amsterdam toonde hoe gemakkelijk deze netwerken onze maatschappij binnendringen.
Deze week rechtvaardigde een Nederlandse krant in een schandalige column Hamas massamoord op onschuldige Israëlische burgers. We spreken hier vaak over infiltratie uit grootmachten, maar dit paard van Troje staat al binnen onze muren. Dank u wel.
Jaume Asens Llodrà
Gracias, presidente. Llevamos dos horas casi hablando de la infiltración islamista en Europa como amenaza. ¿Y las otras infiltraciones, las otras amenazas? La sionista. Acabamos de saber que han detenido al jefe de los servicios secretos alemanes por trabajar por Israel y por haber organizado, junto a otros, el secuestro de la hija de una empresaria alemana.
Y tenemos a Israel infiltrado en nuestros móviles con Pegasus, en nuestras instituciones, la bandera está aquí fuera, incluso interfiere en nuestros procesos electorales. El presidente Sánchez en España lo ha dicho, pero también el expresidente Aznar ha hablado de Israel detrás de lo que sucedía en Ceuta. Y se habla aquí de que con el islamismo los judíos están más en peligro en Europa. ¿Pero saben qué es lo que piensan los judíos no sionistas? Que eso tiene que ver con Israel porque todo lo que hacen, el genocidio incluido, lo hacen en nombre de ellos, no de los ciudadanos de Israel, en nombre de todos los judíos.
Speaker 388
Y eso fomenta el antisemitismo, que es uno de los objetivos, por cierto, del sionismo para que se vayan los judíos a Israel. Por eso Herzl en su día, el que lo fundó, decía que hacía falta una alianza entre el sionismo y el antisemitismo.
A teraz poprosím kolegyňu Tovaglieri.
L'Islam tornerà in Europa come conquistatore, vincitore, ma non lo farà con la spada bensì con l'ideologia e la predicazione. Queste le parole pronunciate ormai quarant'anni fa da uno dei più influenti ideologi del movimento fondamentalista islamico Fratelli Musulmani. Non si può dire che non ci avessero avvisato.
Isabella Tovaglieri
Eppure oggi l'Islam politico è una realtà concreta in Europa. Si è infiltrato nel ventre molle dell'Europa buonista attraverso l'immigrazione incontrollata voluta dalla sinistra che ha svenduto la nostra identità in cambio di un consenso elettorale facile. Così oggi abbiamo sindaci che giurano sulla Sharia anziché sulla Costituzione e pseudo tribunali islamici che vorrebbero imporre la legge islamica al posto del diritto penale. Questa non è islamofobia, questi sono fatti. È ora di aprire gli occhi.
Questa è la nostra Lepanto e dobbiamo fermare un'organizzazione che vuole sovvertire la nostra democrazia. Fratelli Musulmani deve essere messa al bando ora.
Dziękuję. Dziękuję, panie przewodniczący. Szanowni państwo, Bractwo Muzułmańskie jest fanatyczną organizacją, która promuje totalny islam. Jest organizacją, która jest niebezpieczna i państwo z lewicy dzisiaj fanatyczniej bronicie. I jest to debata o nienawiści, tak jak uważacie.
Tylko nie o tej nienawiści, o której mówicie.
Tobiasz Bocheński
To jest dowód nienawiści współczesnej lewicy do cywilizacji europejskiej, do cywilizacji, która wyrosła na chrześcijaństwie, filozofii greckiej i rzymskim prawie. Tak bardzo nienawidzicie tego, czym jest Europa, że jesteście gotowi dzisiaj w Parlamencie Europejskim bronić fanatycznej organizacji islamskiej, która nie ma nic przeciwko ubieraniu europejskich kobiet w hidżab, która nie ma nic przeciwko mówieniu o prawie szariatu. Czy wy zdajecie sobie sprawę, że Bractwo Muzułmańskie jakie swoje motto ma? Koran naszą konstytucją, dżihad naszą drogą. I my tutaj dyskutujemy o sankcjach?
Bert-Jan Ruissen
Dank u wel, voorzitter. Eerder dit jaar organiseerde ik een conferentie met slachtoffers van de Moslimbroederschap in het Midden-Oosten: Jezidi's, Koerden, Joden, christenen. En ze zeiden eigenlijk allemaal hetzelfde: Europa, wees niet langer naïef. De Moslimbroederschap probeert overal voet aan de grond te krijgen, van politiek tot onderwijs, en ze willen daarbij feitelijk maar één ding, en dat is islamisering van Europa, invoering van de sharia en dus weg met de democratie. Voorzitter, laten we hun waarschuwing ter harte nemen en maatregelen treffen, want het is echt vijf voor twaalf.
Om te beginnen moet de geldkraan dicht. Geen belastinggeld meer naar deze organisatie of organisaties die daaraan gelieerd zijn. Maar ik denk ook aan de financiering vanuit het buitenland: Turkije, Qatar, ook daar moeten we een stokje voor steken. En zeker eens met al die collega's die ook vandaag zeggen: de hele broeder-, de Moslimbroederschap moet gewoon verboden worden. Dank u wel.
Arkadiusz Mularczyk
Dziękuję bardzo, panie przewodniczący, panie komisarzu. 11 lat temu Angela Merkel powiedziała słynne słowa w Unii Europejskiej: "Refugees welcome". I od tego czasu do Europy napłynęły miliony, miliony emigrantów z różnych krajów afrykańskich, azjatyckich. Te otwarte drzwi doprowadziły do potężnych problemów społecznych w całej Europie, w samych Niemczech, ale też we wszystkich innych krajach Unii Europejskiej. Dziś trzeba zapytać, czy ta polityka doprowadziła do wyciągnięcia jakichkolwiek wniosków.
Wydaje się, że tak, bo Niemcy i Komisja Europejska zaproponowały pakt migracyjny, czyli odsyłanie tych migrantów niechcianych do innych krajów Europy, zwłaszcza Europy Centralnej, które nie prowadziły tak błędnej polityki. Czy w sytuacji, w której Unia Europejska w tym określonym czasie tych kilkunastu lat wydatkowała dziesiątki milionów na finansowanie organizacji bliskich i wspierających Bractwo Muzułmańskie, wyciągnięto jakiekolwiek wnioski z tej polityki? Obawiam się, że nie, ale za tą politykę odpowiada Europejska Partia Ludowa i socjaliści, którzy przez lata rządzą Komisją Europejską. Panie komisarzu, potrzebny jest audyt środków europejskich wydanych na Bractwo Muzułmańskie.
Martin Hojsík
Dziękuję, tym kończymy debatę. A teraz na zakończenie debaty oddaję głos ministrowi Byrne'owi, proszę.
Thomas Byrne
Thank you, Vice-President. Thank you, Commissioner, and thank you to all the honorable members. Indeed, as we gather here today on October 7th, I too would like to take a moment to honor all of the victims of the despicable terrorist attack carried out in Israel by Hamas on the 7th of October 2023.
I'm deeply conscious that from the victims, many were EU citizens with strong ties to the Member States represented in the Parliament, including my own, and today we honor them all and their loved ones. Ireland and the Irish Presidency stands ready to play our part in working towards a sustainable peace between Israel and Palestine. On the debate today, of course, the freedom of religion, the freedom of association, the freedom of expression, they are non-negotiable and they all must be fully protected through any preventive counter-terrorism action. The Presidency stands ready to continue working with the Parliament, with Commissioner Brunner and the Member States on an evidence-based EU strategy that effectively counters terrorism and radicalization and one that safeguards our security. Thank you.
Martin Hojsík
Ďakujem, pán minister. Naozaj končíte túto rozpravu v bodu doručených päť návrhov uznesení. Rozprava sa skončila a hlasovanie o rezolúciách sa uskutoční zajtra. Ďalším bodom programu sú vyhlásenia Rady a Komisie, vykonávanie nariadenia o obnove prírody. Dovolím si privítať pani komisárku Roswall a na úvod debaty opätovne poprosím pána ministra Byrneho za Radu.
Nech sa páči.
Thomas Byrne
Vice-President, honourable members, Commissioner Roswall, thank you for this opportunity to discuss the Nature Restoration Regulation, which is extremely timely. Indeed, this flagship legislation will feature prominently in the main priorities that we as the Presidency are currently defining for the 2026 UN Convention on Biodiversity COP Conference of the Parties, which will take place in Yerevan from the 19th to the 30th of October. We will bring it as an example of the Union's leadership in the implementation of the Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework.
To begin a dialogue with the European Commission on our ambition to restore nature. Because let there be no doubt, investing in nature is investing in the future, as nature is the foundation of our societies and economies. Healthy ecosystems provide us with clean air and water, fertile soils, food security, pollination, protection from disasters, climate mitigation and countless other benefits. Nature degradation and biodiversity loss are not only a crisis for ecosystems, but also a direct threat to our economic prosperity, to our competitiveness and to our resilience. Inaction comes at a cost.
Extreme heatwaves, severe droughts, destructive floods and wildfires and declining pollinator populations are just a few examples of the financial toll on governments and businesses alike brought about by nature degradation. We experienced first-hand such costs during the summer, where high temperatures broke historical records not only across Europe but across the world, even exceeding the record highs of 2024 as we discussed last month in this chamber. The implementation of the Nature Restoration Regulation is therefore expected to be a true game changer for nature in Europe, but as is the case with most legislation, its implementation needs time, effort and resources. Quantifying marine restoration targets, filling data gaps on river connectivity, establishing a common forest bird index or identifying the necessary sources of finance are fundamental to putting effective measures in place, but also require specific attention, extra efforts and adequate support to implement. At a time of global instability and new security challenges, investing in nature and building resilience are essential for Europe's future.
To arrive at this point, what Member States need now is predictability, stability, and support in implementation. Thank you.
Martin Hojsík
Ďakujem pán komisár a teraz poprosím za komisiu pani komisárku Roswall, nech sa páči.
Jessika Roswall
Dear President, Minister Born, Honorable Members. We have had just an experience of a very destructive summer. According to estimates, extreme heat alone could cost the EU around 180 billion euros this year. And alarmingly, the heatwave is also estimated to have caused 16,000 additional deaths in Germany this year. So this summer sends us a very clear message: in order to be competitive and secure, Europe needs to be resilient, and true resilience requires healthy ecosystems.
Nature is the cornerstone of our agriculture, water and energy security and industry, climate resilience and preparedness, and so so much more. Three out of four businesses in Europe will be in economic trouble if our ecosystems do not function anymore.
Jessika Roswall
Climate change makes nature restoration even more important. Healthy soils retain more water, wetlands reduce floods and drought risk, greener cities reduce heat, and diverse, sustainably managed forests are more resilient to wildfires and droughts. From day one, the Nature Restoration Regulation has been hotly debated. For some, the regulation is too ambitious, for others, not enough. And as a result of your discussions, we have a regulation that sets ambitious objectives, but also includes the flexibility to adapt to local circumstances.
Now the Commission is focused on bringing that balance to life and making sure that the Nature Restoration Regulation works on the ground. And that means continuing our close engagement with Member States, local authorities, and land managers and others. I have written twice to all ministers to offer our support and our engagement to a pragmatic implementation. I have discussed the regulation and its implementation and its flexibilities with foresters in Germany and farmers in Cyprus, with land managers in Portugal, local authorities in Hungary, and many more. I will continue these discussions, and so will my services, because we need to reflect the very different ecological, social and economic circumstances across Europe.
Member states should decide which measures are appropriate in which places and for which objectives. For farmers, foresters and others, restoration should reinforce their long-term resilience and productivity. Foresters, for example, should focus on dynamic, forward-looking nature restoration. And this means ensuring sustainable forests that are resistant to droughts and wildfires. It does not always mean recreating the forest of the past.
Jessika Roswall
In Ireland, for example, now let's see if I get this right, Coillte is making forests in the Dublin mountains more diverse. Timber production continues through selective harvesting while foresters use sustainable management to create forests that are richer in biodiversity and more resilient to a changing climate. For cities, the regulation provides flexibility to accommodate housing development alongside greening. And just a few weeks ago, I saw this during my visit to Guimarães, the European Green Capital of 2026, which has implemented ambitious green urban development policies and created valuable public spaces. It has done so while addressing the historic problems of flooding and lowering extreme temperatures thanks to green belts, urban forests and rain-fed meadows.
The key point here is that restoration is already happening across Europe. We do not need to reinvent the wheel. Progress is not a concrete linear path, it is a process that will evolve. And it will be done to strengthen competitiveness, and it will be led by people living and working in nature. This is the spirit in which the Commission and the European Environmental Agency are now assessing the draft nature restoration plans that we are receiving in collaboration with the Member States.
And I urge them, those Member States who have not submitted their drafts, to do so as soon as possible. Our observations will be made public, but it is not for us to approve or reject these plans. Member States are the first and final authors. Honorable members, restoration is an investment, not a cost. And I agree with the Minister, it's an investment in the future.
But investments still require funding. National restoration plans are an important investment and also a planning tool. They can help to prioritize measures, identify costs, but also ways to limit them, and to assess the needs for resources. To support the funding, the Commission has put forward three important elements.
First, under the current MFF, 6.5 billion euros from regional funds has been allocated directly to nature, biodiversity, and Natura 2000. So far, only 15% has been spent. We need to take advantage of that available funding. Second, the next MFF. The Commission has proposed that at least 35% of the next EU budget should go to climate and environment objectives, and 43% under the proposed national plans and the European Competitiveness Fund.
So I called on the European Parliament and the Council to keep this ambition. And the national plans must help finance the restoration plans. That is what our MFF proposal foresees. And third, our roadmap on nature credits. Public funding by itself will not be enough.
Jessika Roswall
We also need to mobilize private funding with options like result-based approaches, payment and ecosystem services, carbon farming, and high-integrity nature credits. Honorable members, nature, that is our foundation of our economy, of security, and our resilience. And I has said, as I said in the beginning, this summer sent a clear message of the cost of inaction. That means that nature restoration is both an environmental objective and an economic necessity.
Above all, it means that we need to act together. I'm really looking forward to hearing your views on how we can translate nature restoration from ambition to reality together with farmers, foresters, landowners, local and regional authorities, businesses and also civil society. Thank you very much.
Martin Hojsík
Ďakujem pani komisárka a teraz poprosím kolegyňu Polfjärd za poslanecký klub Európskej ľudovej strany. Nech sa páči.
Jessica Polfjärd
Tack herr talman, fru kommissionär Roswall, kollegor. Sverige och Europas skogs- och lantbrukare är en av våra viktigaste grundpelare för att EU ska kunna genomföra den gröna omställningen, öka vår självförsörjningsgrad och stärka vår konkurrenskraft. Tyvärr finns det idag flertalet lagstiftningar som försvårar och hindrar skogs- och lantbrukare från att bruka sin egen mark och driva hållbara aktiva skogsbruk. Istället tvingas man hantera regelkrångel och tung byråkrati. Naturrestaureringslagen är inget undantag.
Beräkningar visar att upp till en miljon, en miljon hektar produktiv skogsmark kan tvingas att tas ur bruk för att implementera lagen och det här är bara i Sverige.
Jessica Polfjärd
Det skulle bli en förödande förlust av skogsmaterial. Material som behövs för att kunna satsa på bioekonomin, fasa ut fossila bränslen, bygga hus och göra förpackningar av trä istället för av fossila material. Naturrestaureringslagen måste därför ses över från grunden för att den inte ska hindra den gröna omställningen och urholka äganderätten, den är värd att försvaras. Låt Sveriges och Europas bönder spendera tid vid skördebordet och inte vid skrivbordet. Tack, herr talman.
César Luena
Gracias, presidente. Me temo que los señores de la derecha siguen sin comprender la Ley de Restauración de la Naturaleza. Intentaron bloquearla, no lo consiguieron, la aprobamos aquí, está en vigor, y ahora quieren convertir su aplicación en una segunda negociación. Pero ya vale de obstáculos. Es el momento de cumplir.
Los Estados tienen que presentar sus planes nacionales de restauración. Solo nueve lo han hecho. Pero la Comisión, señora comisaria, tiene que cumplir porque nos debe usted el análisis sobre la financiación.
Lo tenía que haber presentado en agosto del año pasado. Ya sé que dice que necesita conocer los planes nacionales para calcular los costes, pero es que mientras tanto se negocia el marco financiero y estamos a verlas venir sin saber cuánto dinero podemos tener, requerir para restauración. Por tanto, hay que romper este círculo ya porque restaurar humedales, ríos, bosques, mares es protegernos frente a las sequías, los incendios, las inundaciones. Es defender, señora Polfjärd, también nuestra agricultura, nuestra seguridad alimentaria, también nuestra economía. Por tanto, los Estados, por favor, que presenten sus planes y la Comisión que presente su plan de financiación.
La ley no se va a volver a negociar. Se aplica, se financia y se cumple. A ver si lo entienden ya de una vez.
Martin Hojsík
Ďakujem a teraz poprosím pána Haidera za skupinu Patrioti pre Európu, nech sa páči.
Roman Haider
Ja, unsere Ablehnung des Nature Restoration Law wird gerade eindrucksvoll bestätigt durch den Naturschutzbehörden in unseren Mitgliedstaaten, die nicht wissen, wie sie diesen Wahnsinn umsetzen sollen. Ein gutes Beispiel ist die in der Verordnung vorgesehene Wiedervernässung entwässerter Moorböden. Allein schon die Feststellung, ob es sich bei einer Fläche um einen entwässerten Moorboden handelt, ist fachlich nicht möglich. Es gibt auch keine Definition dafür. Wenn man diese Wiedervernässung ernst nehmen würde, dann wären davon enorme Flächen betroffen.
Das gesamte Innviertel in meiner Heimat Oberösterreich zum Beispiel ist ein ehemaliges Moor. Wollen Sie ernsthaft einen kompletten bewohnten und landwirtschaftlich genutzten Landstrich wieder in ein Moor verwandeln? Das ist ja völlig lachhaft. Die Renaturierungsziele sind ohne massive Eingriffe in die Acker- und Weideflächen nicht möglich. Damit ist diese Verordnung ein massiver Angriff auf die Bauern in ganz Europa.
Und wie diese Absurdität finanziert werden soll, weiß auch niemand. Diese Verordnung ist undurchführbar, unfinanzierbar und unsinnig und somit typisch für die Kommission von der Leyen.
Beatrice Timgren
Tack herr talman, fru kommissionär. Naturrestaureringslagen, den kuppades igenom i sista stund och nu kommer konsekvenserna, nu kommer notan. Men vad kommer det här kalaset att kosta? Problemet är att ingen vet. Trots löften så har kommissionen lovat att lägga fram en kostnadsplan, men den har inte kommit.
Naturvårdsverket, de uppskattar kostnaden bara i Sverige kommer landa på runt 20 miljarder kronor per år fram till 2032. Vi ska alltså lägga enorma summor på en lag som riskerar begränsa svenskt jordbruk, svenskt lantbruk och svensk livsmedelsproduktion. Ta torv till exempel. Den behövs för svensk livsmedelsproduktion. Men nu så riskerar svensk torvproduktion att begränsas.
Vad vinner vi på att europeisk produktion ersätts av import? Är det verkligen värt 20 miljarder? Skrota naturrestaureringslagen. Tack.
Martin Hojsík
A teraz poprosím kolegu Gerbrandyho za skupinu Renew Europe, nech sa páči.
Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's only one European institution that is directly elected by the people. That is this House. We call ourselves the people's Parliament. And if that's the case, then it might be good to listen to the European people, and not just once every five years when there are elections, but doing it constantly.
That might be difficult, but there is a wonderful tool for that, that's called the Eurobarometer. In June of this year, there was a special from the Eurobarometer on biodiversity, and the results are incredible. 95% of Europeans consider halting the loss of biodiversity extremely important, and for two reasons. First of all, they believe there is a moral obligation to do so, and secondly, it's important because our health, wellbeing, are based upon nature and biodiversity. And the most frequently mentioned EU-level priority is restoring nature and biodiversity by more than 90%.
This is not just a few green people, this is conservatives, this is radical right, this is everybody. So I say to the populists, listen to the people, the populists, and fight for restoring nature. Thank you.
Martin Hojsík
Thank you and please try to stick to the time. A teraz poprosím kolegyňu Paulus za skupinu Zelených/Európska slobodná aliancia.
Thank you very much, Chair. Liebe Kolleginnen, liebe Kollegen, liebe Frau Kommissarin, was für ein Sommer! Hitzewellen, ausgetrocknete Böden, Wälder in Flammen und zehntausende Tote. Der heißeste Sommer unseres Lebens, aber wahrscheinlich der kühlste für die nächsten Jahrzehnte. Was tun?
Jutta Paulus
Die Wissenschaft ist klar: Wir müssen unsere Natur retten. Sie ist unsere Verbündete im Kampf gegen diese lebensbedrohlichen Katastrophen und jeder in Renaturierung investierte Euro bringt ein Vielfaches an Nutzen, das hat das Impact Assessment der Kommission ganz klar gezeigt. Und deshalb erfüllt es mich mit großer Sorge, dass fachlich völlig unstrittige Maßnahmen von einigen Parteien zum Kulturkampf erhoben werden, denn wir alle sollten doch das Wohl der Menschen in Europa verfolgen. Eine naturnahe Waldwirtschaft hilft, Wälder widerstandsfähiger zu machen gegen Brände, gegen Dürren und auch gegen Schädlinge. Moore wieder zu vernässen, wie zum Beispiel im Hohen Venn, hilft, Brände zu verhindern und schafft Wasserspeicher.
Bestäuber sichern unsere Ernten und intakte Böden und renaturierte Flüsse helfen gegen Dürren und auch gegen Überschwemmungen. Das heißt, Renaturierung bedeutet den Schutz unserer Heimat, Sicherheit für unsere Landwirtschaft und Zukunftsschutz für unsere Kinder. Aber wir brauchen auch Finanzierung und deshalb ist es völlig falsch, das LIFE-Programm zu streichen.
Und die Renaturierungspläne auf nationaler Ebene zu blockieren, wie es beispielsweise der bayerische Ministerpräsident Söder tut, hilft uns auch nicht weiter. Natur retten heißt Heimat, Landwirtschaft und Menschen vor Naturkatastrophen schützen. Lassen Sie uns alle an einem Strang ziehen.
Martin Hojsík
A teraz poprosím kolegyňu Hazekamp za skupinu Ľavice v Európskom parlamente, nech sa páči.
Anja Hazekamp
Drie miljard extra bomen, geen verlies van groen in onze steden en herstel van beschadigde natuur. Allemaal mooie beloftes van de Europese Commissie. Maar de weg van de tekentafel naar het bos blijkt vol valkuilen te zitten, aldus Follow the Money. Van de drie miljard beloofde bomen zijn er nog niet veel terug te vinden en onze bossen worden nog steeds gekapt. Zoals in Gelderland, in Limburg, waar duizenden bomen sneuvelen voor snelwegen.
Hoezo natuurherstel? Zelfs onder water is onze natuur niet veilig. Tot diep in de beschermde natuurgebieden, zoals de Doggersbank, verwoesten bodemtrawlers de zeebodem op zoek naar vis en economisch gewin. En ondertussen produceert alleen al de Nederlandse vee-industrie elk jaar dertig badkuipen mest per Nederlander en wordt de natuur bedolven. Commissie, hoe gaat u ervoor zorgen dat de natuurherstelwet geen papieren blad op de tekentafel blijft, maar daadwerkelijk nieuwe bomen laat groeien?
Anja Arndt
Diese Renaturierungsverordnung wurde im Umweltausschuss 2023 mit 44 zu 44 Stimmen abgelehnt, aber im Plenum dann doch noch knapp beschlossen. Sie ist eine Skandalverordnung, denn bis 2050 sollen 90 Prozent unserer Meere, Moore, Wälder, Weiden und Flüsse, die nicht den gewünschten Zustand aufweisen, renaturiert werden. Das ist kein Naturschutz, das ist ein gewaltiger Eingriff in unsere über Jahrhunderte geformte Kulturlandschaft und unsere Eigentumsrechte. Der Aufwand wird niemals verhältnismäßig sein. Die Folgen für unsere Landwirte und Waldbesitzer sind eine einzige Katastrophe und die Finanzierung ist bis heute nicht gesichert.
Diese Verordnung gehört sofort aufgehoben. Gleichzeitig wird weiter kräftig denaturiert durch Windkrafträder, die die Landschaft zerstören und mit dem Abrieb der Rotorblätter die Umgebung vergiften und durch gigantische Photovoltaikanlagen, die die Flächen austrocknen lassen.
Diese Verordnung ist ein bürokratischer Feldzug gegen unsere eigenen Bürger, deshalb braucht Europa die ESN und Deutschland bekommt die AfD.
Martin Hojsík
A teraz, keďže tu nie je kolega Liese, poprosím kolegyňu Burkhardt, nech sa páči.
Vielen Dank. Ja, wenn Hochwasserschutz nicht reicht, wenn Hitzeschutz nicht reicht als Argument, wenn auch Trinkwassergarantie nicht reicht, dann ist es vielleicht die Wirtschaft, die Sie davon überzeugt, dass wir Naturwiederherstellung machen sollten. Ich möchte Ihnen ein ganz konkretes Beispiel nennen. Fragen Sie doch mal die Binnenschiffer am Rhein. In diesem Sommer und im Frühherbst konnten sie wegen Rekordniedrigständen nur mit reduzierter Ladung fahren.
Delara Burkhardt
Das hat zu einer angespannten Versorgungslage geführt, Preissteigerung und viele Güter sind nicht angekommen. Aber allein dieses Niedrigwasser im Rhein verursachte volkswirtschaftliche Kosten von drei bis vier Milliarden Euro. Und wir reden nur über den Rhein. Also lassen Sie es uns sagen: Niedrigwasser wird zum Wirtschaftsrisiko in Deutschland und in Europa.
Und wir müssen dann überlegen, als verantwortungsvolle Politik, was tun wir eigentlich, wenn Gletscher und Regen als verlässliche Wasserlieferanten ausfallen? Dann müssen wir umso mehr in die Renaturierung von Flüssen, Auen, Wäldern und Moore als Wasserspeicher investieren. Und genau dafür haben wir mit der Wiederherstellungsverordnung einen Plan gemacht. Und genau auch deswegen müssen wir jetzt in die Umsetzung kommen. Von der Kommission fordere ich deshalb, endlich den Bericht über verfügbare EU-Mittel vorzulegen und dass Sie uns dann eben auch, genau wie eben besprochen, dabei unterstützen, dafür zu sorgen, dass Naturwiederherstellung eine feste Größe im nächsten EU-Haushalt wird.
Mathilde Androuët
Ce nouveau débat sur l'application du règlement relatif à la restauration de la nature est l'occasion de dénoncer l'idéologie qui l'a inspiré. Vouloir rendre à la nature ce que l'homme lui aurait pris, c'est considérer que l'activité humaine serait par nature nuisible. C'est surtout organiser l'effacement de l'homme et la décroissance, voulue par la gauche et mise en œuvre par la Commission européenne avec le Pacte vert. Certes, l'objectif délirant de rendre à l'état naturel 20 % des terres cultivées a été abandonné, mais ce texte reste en contradiction totale avec les discours sur la compétitivité et la souveraineté. Quelle autre grande puissance organise ainsi l'affaiblissement durable de ses capacités agricoles ?
Aucune, aucune. Les États-Unis, la Chine, le Brésil ou l'Inde renforcent leur production. L'Union européenne, elle, fragilise son agriculture et accroît sa dépendance alimentaire. Ce sera sans nous.
Restaurer la nature ne doit jamais signifier déraciner l'homme. Nous défendrons toujours une écologie de l'enracinement, de la production et du bon sens.
Alexandr Vondra
Dámy a pánové, Nature Restoration Law, neboli tedy nařízení o obnově přírody, je dobrá věc. Já jsem byl pro. Ale ten úspěch stojí a padá s penězi. Peníze, finance. A v rozpočtu Evropské unie na sedm let není prakticky nic.
Národní rozpočty jsou skoro v kolapsích. Takže kde peníze, nemáme nové zdroje. Mám návrh. Jednoduchý. Přesuňme desítky miliard z těch mitigačních klimatických opatření, které Evropská unie každý rok posílá třetím zemím a nemají vůbec žádný účinek, do adaptačních opatření tady doma v Evropské unii, abychom se bránili suchu, abychom se bránili horku.
Vynakládáme za 10 let 260 miliard a přispíváme více než třetinou k finančnímu globálnímu závazku, ačkoliv dáváme jenom 6 % emisí Evropa. Takže řešení je jednoduché. Čína nedává nic, Američané nic, tak nedávejme taky a dejme to tady doma.
Katri Kulmuni
Arvoisa herra puhemies, rouva komissaari, hyvät kollegat. Ennallistamisasetuksen ongelmallisen rajoittavuus aikana, jolloin Euroopan suurimpia kysymyksiä on päästä erilleen Euroopan ulkopuolelta tuoduista fossiilisista polttoaineista. Nämä öljypohjaiset materiaalit pitäisi korvata jollain kestävämmällä eurooppalaisella vaihtoehdolla, mutta valitettavasti ennallistamisasetuksessa oleva keinotekoinen vuoden 1952 aikaraja tosiasiassa heikentää esimerkiksi puupohjaisten raaka-aineiden mahdollisuutta korvata näitä ulkomailta tuotuja öljypohjaisia tuotteita Euroopassa.
Joten valitettavasti ennallistamisasetuksessa ei huomioitu riittävästi ympäristöllisesti ja kestävien tuotteiden ja markkinatalouden logiikkaa siitä, miten nämä yhdistämällä voisimme vähentää tätä valtavaa fossiiliriippuvuuttamme ja vahvistaa eurooppalaista omavaraisuutta ja sitä kautta myös mantereemme talouskasvua. Ennallistaminen on tietenkin hieno asia, mutta siihen tarvitaan rahoitusta ja talouskasvua, enkä valitettavasti usko, että tällä hetkellä kansallisesti tai EU-tasolla olisi riittäviä rahoituslähteitä edes teoriassa päästä asetettuihin tavoitteisiin.
Thomas Waitz
Thank you, Chair, Madam Commissioner. What is essential for our life? We need it to drink, we need it to cook, we need it to water our gardens, we need it to wash, our farmers need it, industry needs it, our wild firefighters need it. And unfortunately, we have more and more droughts, we have more and more heatwaves, we have more and more areas of the European Union that fall dry in summer, where drinking water is getting scarce. And that's why we are trying to renature Europe.
That's why we want to give rivers space. That's why we want to rewet areas to keep the water on the land so it doesn't rush down our channeled rivers and causes floods in the areas downstream, and to give water time to sink into the aquifers. Because we will need it in agriculture to irrigate our fields. We will need it to fight the fires that we see more and more occurring across the European Union. So, colleagues, let's get started.
Let's do it. Let's save water on the continent for our people, for our farmers, for our firefighters, for our industry, because that's a real threat to our society. Let's get going, colleagues.
Luke Ming Flanagan
To restore nature, we need to pay for a just transition. I voted against this regulation because there was no real commitment to fund it, and that the cost of implementation would fall to those least able to afford it. Unfortunately, and I mean this, in both national and EU level, I've been proved right. In Ireland, we were promised 3.15 billion via a dedicated climate and nature fund. What happened to it?
None of it was earmarked for nature restoration. The independent advisory panel recommended between 450 and 700 million, yet in yesterday's budget in Ireland, no dedicated line item for the NRL was included. At EU level, there was no mention of funding the NRL in the draft MFF proposal, likewise in the NRPP. And to put the final nail in the coffin of just transition to restoring nature, the NRPP doesn't even mention the possibility of paying for public goods.
How can this work if we're not going to pay for it? Farmers have shown that under Natura 2000 payments in 1991, they would do what was needed for nature if paid. They did it, they did it for years, then you pulled the funding. People deserve to be paid, we get paid, and if we pay for it, we'll save nature.
Volker Schnurrbusch
Herr Präsident, meine Damen und Herren, zurück zur Natur, das war schon vor 250 Jahren utopisch, denn wir leben in einer Kultur- und nicht in einer Naturlandschaft. Diese Verordnung atmet den Geist von Fortschrittsfeindlichkeit und Realitätsverweigerung. Der Deutsche Bauernverband warnt zu Recht vor einer Spirale des Ordnungsrechts. Was heute als freiwillige Maßnahme angekündigt wird, kann morgen zu neuen Schutzgebietskulissen, Bewirtschaftungsauflagen und dauerhaften Nutzungseinschränkungen führen. Besonders problematisch sind die Wiedervernässung von Moorböden und weitere Einschränkungen für Grünland.
Für freiwillige Biodiversitätsmaßnahmen auf nur 5 bis 10 % der Landwirtschaftsfläche veranschlagt der Verband schon heute Einbußen von 1 bis 2 Milliarden Euro. Dabei fehlt eine Finanzierung, die gesichert ist.
Brüssel fordert, Landwirte und Grundeigentümer tragen die Folgen. Naturschutz kann nur mit ihnen gelingen, freiwillig, vollständig finanziert und ohne neue Eingriffe in Eigentum und Bewirtschaftung. Vielen Dank.
Die Frau Sippel hat meine Familie beleidigt, deswegen nein.
Martin Hojsík
Das ist Ihre Entscheidung. Nein, leider, die blaue Karte wird nicht angenommen. Let me give the floor to Mr. Dorfmann, please.
Herbert Dorfmann
Thank you, Chair, dear Commissioner, Kolleginnen und Kollegen. Die Wiederherstellungsverordnung ist ein Erbe der vergangenen Legislaturperiode, die wir mit uns mitschleppen und die leider mit der Zeit auch nicht besser wird. In den Mitgliedstaaten zeigt sich nun die bürokratische und finanzielle Auswirkung dieser Verordnung, die wir leider in diesem Haus mitverursacht haben. Und ich glaube, in einer Zeit, in der allen dämmern sollte, dass wir in Europa entbürokratisieren müssen, Ballast abwerfen müssen, weil wir wettbewerbsfähig bleiben wollen, in dieser Zeit produzieren die Mitgliedstaaten Tausende von Seiten Wiederherstellungspläne über die Köpfe von Regionen, Gemeinden und vor allem der betroffenen Grundeigentümer hinweg. Und da werden Maßnahmen vorgesehen, die tief in die Rechte der Grundeigentümer reingreifen, ohne irgendwelche Entschädigungen dafür vorzusehen.
Andere Mitgliedstaaten machen es anders. Sie produzieren einfach viel Papier, geben das in irgendwelchen Büros der Kommission ab, ohne im Vorort dann irgendwas zu ändern. Und ich hätte mir eigentlich beim Titel unserer heutigen Aussprache erhofft, dass wir vom Rat und von der Kommission einige Informationen erhalten über die Implementierung der Verordnung. Sind die 27 Wiederherstellungspläne hinterlegt, Frau Kommissarin? Sind sie von der Kommission geprüft?
Wie ist die Situation der Implementierung derzeit? Da hätten wir nämlich gesehen, dass das Ganze wirklich nicht so läuft, wie es eigentlich laufen sollte. Und ich glaube, diese Verordnung ist ein bisschen aus der Zeit gefallen. Und deswegen wünsche ich mir die Courage für eine wirkliche Reflexion. Wir sollten das Inkrafttreten der Verordnung ein paar Jahre aufschieben und gründlich darüber nachdenken, wie wir sinnvoll weitergehen können.
Herzlichen Dank.
Martin Hojsík
Sie haben zwei Blue Cards. Der Kollege Dorfmann, es gibt zwei Blue Cards, die erste von der, ja, die erste von der Herr Gerbrandy.
Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Mr. Dorfmann, for your contribution. You focused a lot on the administrative costs. And of course, that's a problem in a lot of pieces of legislation. But do you agree with the general objective of this piece of law, that we need, that we really need to restore nature?
Yes, I agree with this, but I think it's not up to us in the European Union to do this. I think if we leave this to the regional competence, to national competence, it's much better. And this is what I've always said, already last year when we decided about this regulation, and I'm still convinced about this.
Lukas Sieper
Vielen Dank, Herr Kollege, dass Sie die blaue Karte akzeptiert haben, dass Sie mutiger sind als andere Kolleginnen und Kollegen in diesem Haus. Sie haben darüber gesprochen, über die vielen Fehler gesprochen, die die Verordnung in Ihren Augen hat, und haben am Ende dafür plädiert, das nun erstmal einige Jahre auf Eis zu legen.
Deswegen wäre meine Frage, da wir uns ja in einer Klimakrise befinden, da wir uns in einer Zeit von Hitzewellen befinden, von Stürmen, von Überflutungen: Was wären Ihrer Meinung nach Ad-hoc-Maßnahmen, die wir bis dahin ergreifen könnten, um die Renaturierung voranzutreiben und damit die Natur als unseren wichtigsten Verbündeten zu erhalten? Dankeschön.
Herbert Dorfmann
Also ich glaube, dass es wenig bringt, wenn man große Wiederherstellungspläne macht und das ganz offen, also Minister zum Beispiel sehr offen sagen, dass sie sich sehr bemühen, Pläne zu machen, mit denen sie dann vor Ort möglichst wenig verändern müssen, weil Papier halt geduldig ist. Und ich glaube, das ist halt nicht das, was letztendlich erfolgreich ist. Das produziert nur Kosten und produziert Ärger, und das passiert derzeit in vielen Mitgliedstaaten. Und deswegen denke ich schon, dass es vernünftiger ist, wenn man vor Ort Situation für Situation hinschaut, was man verbessern kann, wo man auch gemeinsam mit den Grundeigentümern verbessern kann und entsprechend zu vielleicht schnelleren Erfolgen kommt. Herzlichen Dank.
Martin Hojsík
Danke. There is a request for a follow-up question, but I think the speaker had enough of two blue cards, which is very enough. Teraz poprosím kolegyňu Borás Pabon, nech sa páči.
Sí, muchas gracias. A 1 de septiembre, 20 de los 27 Estados miembros no habían presentado su plan de restauración de la naturaleza, pero Pedro Sánchez sí, el alumno aventajado de Bruselas.
Mireia Borrás Pabón
¿Y para qué tanta prisa? Pues para dictar desde un despacho a la gente del campo cómo deben de gestionar nuestros montes y nuestros ríos y, eso sí, asumir una factura que el propio MITECO cifra en casi 600 millones de euros al año hasta 2050. Y yo me pregunto, entre tantos millones, ¿dónde están los millones de euros para infraestructuras hídricas? ¿Dónde están los millones de euros para políticas de desbroce y de cortafuegos y de pastoreo extensivo y de gestión forestal que realmente protejan a nuestros pueblos de los incendios? ¿Dónde están las acciones concretas de apoyo a quienes sostienen el territorio y lo mantienen vivo?
Porque para obligaciones, restricciones, burocracia, sí que vemos páginas y páginas y páginas. Pero eso sí, cuando toca pagar la factura de todos sus delirios, pues ahí sí que tiran del bolsillo de la gente del campo y de fondos como, por ejemplo, la Política Agraria Común. Y es que, señorías, yo creo que nuestros agricultores, ganaderos y pescadores no necesitan más burócratas, no necesitan más legislación ni necesitan que les expliquen su oficio. Necesitan una PAC fuerte, acceso al agua, seguridad, rentabilidad y libertad para producir.
Martin Hojsík
Thank you. Thank you very much. I really have to be equal to everybody. A ako ďalšieho poprosím kolegu Smita, nech sa páči.
Sander Smit
Voorzitter, commissaris, de natuur in Nederland herstelt.
Otter, bever en zeehond zijn terug. Houtwal en patrijs sieren ons landschap. Niet door Brusselse decreten, maar door rentmeesterschap van boeren, vissers, jagers en gemeenschappen zelf. De omstreden natuurherstelverordening zet ons platteland verder op slot. Deze wet stapelt zich bovenop de habitatrichtlijn, die dringend aan herziening toe is.
Sinds 1992 is de juridisering tot in het absurde doorgeschoten. Nederland zit in de knel door eigen stikstofdoelen, terwijl uw commissie toekijkt. Ook elders in Europa zitten landbouw, visserij, jacht, industrie, woningbouw en energievoorziening bekneld. De doelen voor 2030, 2040, 2050, ver 150 tot 850.000 hectare extra, ten koste van Neerlands boer, tuinder, burger en familiebedrijf. Verplichtingen die straks pas in de rechtszaal vorm krijgen.
Red ons platteland, commissaris. Herzie de natuurherstelverordening en de habitatrichtlijn met spoed. Voor economie en de democratie het onderspit delven.
Dank u wel.
Michal Wiezik
Toto leto nám jasne ukázalo, že voda je limitou nášho prežitia. Nemáme jej dostatok. Ak viem niečo povedať stopercentne o obnove prírody a prírodných riešeniach, je to to, že vracajú vodu do krajiny. Ak neveríte, choďte sa pozrieť na obnovené bobrovisko. Nielenže tam budete stáť po pás vo vode, ale tá voda bude hýriť životom, to bobrovisko bude voňať, spievať a bzučať.
A nestálo to ani euro. Štáty naozaj zúfalo hľadajú tú vodu, kde ju nájsť, no akoby sa pozerali opačným, opačným smerom. Len deväť krajín si splnilo svoju povinnosť a predložilo národné plány na obnovu prírody. To je nielen obrovská hanba, to je škandalózne. Túto krízu nedokážete vyrokovať za rokovacím stolom alebo v sálach pléna, plenárnych sálach.
Michal Wiezik
Túto krízu môžete vyriešiť len vo fyzickom svete. Preto vyzývam všetkých zúčastnených, začnite s obnovovaním. V opačnom prípade začnite s vysťahovaním. Destinácia planéta B.
Alexander Bernhuber
I don't do it in English, it's okay. You mentioned the beaver population, that it's also increasing, but we see also in fact that increasing beaver population may be also be a problem with dams, already existing dams, because also due to higher weather we will have more floods. And now we have the problem that it's nearly impossible to restore these dams because there are beavers in and also with the nature restoration law we don't see the chance to even harder restore these dams because there are beavers which are protected. So what is your solution for problems like this, because these are problems which our mayors, our citizens have?
Michal Wiezik
Yeah, the solutions to tackle the problems with beavers, they are already on the table. There are experts who can do that. You can lower the level of water, you can replace the beavers, in extreme cases you can even cull the beavers. That's all possible. But these are no reason for us to not see the benefits of beaver being present in our country and recovering all around the Europe, because it's not only about reducing the amounts of water, but also preventing the floods that you mentioned.
And they are doing it in the multi-functional way, supporting biodiversity, storing carbon and creating a beautiful space that is not able to be there without beaver.
So, go on beaver. Thank you.
Pär Holmgren
Tack talman. Naturrestaurering, det här är det enskilt viktigaste vi kan göra för att begränsa den globala uppvärmningen, givetvis tillsammans med att skapa ett fossilfritt samhälle. Det handlar exempelvis om att skapa våtmarker som blir kolsänkor och faktiskt försvagar växthuseffekten. Men det handlar också väldigt mycket om klimatanpassning, resiliens. För Sveriges del återigen, inte minst våtmarkerna som ser till att följder av både skyfall och torka blir betydligt lindrigare.
Naturrestaurering, biologisk mångfald, det är naturens eget försäkringsbolag och försäkringar brukar vi vara villiga att betala för. Det här är antagligen den bästa insatsen vi kan göra för att begränsa hotet av kommande torka och skogsbränder. Men då måste verkligen naturrestaurering implementeras i alla länder. Än så länge är det bara nio länder som har svarat och flera av dem, tyvärr mitt hemland Sverige är ett av dem, levererar dessutom alldeles för lite.
Vi måste sätta fokus på detta för det här är kärnan i hela klimatfrågan. Tack.
Martin Hojsík
Děkujeme a teraz before the colleague Terlage just let me inform you that I'm closing catch-the-eye, but everybody who asked for catch-the-eye will get it. So, Madam Terlage, the floor is yours.
Dank u wel voorzitter. Geachte collega's, commissaris. Nederland heeft niet voor niets tegen de natuurherstelverordening gestemd. Nederland is na Malta het meest dichtbevolkt van de Europese Unie. Er moet ruimte en flexibiliteit zijn voor de nationale omstandigheden.
Ingeborg Ter Laak
We hebben ruimte nodig voor defensie, wonen, onze economie, voedselzekerheid, water. En de fysieke ruimteclaims die voortkomen uit de natuurherstelverordening concurreren met voedselvoorziening, woningbouw, onze brede economie. De bindende percentages staan op gespannen voet met onze industrie en landbouw. Daarom blijven wij als CDA pleiten voor flexibiliteit voor lidstaten om een gebiedsgerichte aanpak en benadering te nemen.
We kunnen niet zonder gezonde natuur en we willen werken aan natuurherstel, maar wel binnen realistische en haalbare doelen. Als de doelen niet realistisch uitvoerbaar zijn, dan is het in Nederland onmogelijk te implementeren of juridische zekerheid te bieden aan ondernemers, landbouwers en woningzoekenden. De deadline van 1 september voor het indienen van natuurherstelplannen is door veel lidstaten niet gehaald. De volgende deadline van 1 september 2027 voor het indienen van definitieve plannen is dan ook erg krap. Daarom zouden wij willen pleiten voor een verlenging van de deadline en aan de Commissie willen vragen of hier flexibiliteit in mogelijk is, zodat er gesproken kan worden over maatwerk.
Wat is er haalbaar in een lidstaat? Dank u wel.
Panie przewodniczący, panie komisarzu, przestrzegałam przed tym rozporządzeniem. To po prostu źle napisany dokument.
Anna Zalewska
To idea, to są chęci, niepoliczone, niezaplanowane, niezinwentaryzowane, niezauważające, czy coś się dubluje, czy współgra między innymi z tymi dokumentami, które mówią o siedliskach, o ptakach, czy też o Naturze 2000. Dlatego z dużym zaskoczeniem przyjęłam, Pani Komisarz jest teraz zajęta, chcę ją skomplementować, bo jest bardzo rzetelnym komisarzem, tak powierzchownego, tak powierzchowne wystąpienie. Potrzebujemy pełnej informacji. Dlaczego tylko dziewięć krajów napisało czy przedstawiło swoje plany? Nie potrafią, nie chcą, czy po prostu zwyczajnie nie są w stanie odczytać złych zapisów, czy też nie mają pieniędzy?
Każdy kraj członkowski boryka się z głębokim kryzysem ekonomicznym, tak jak Unia Europejska. Rozporządzenie trzeba przeanalizować, trzeba zapytać krajów członkowskich, w jaki sposób chcą je realizować i czy jest to możliwe do realizacji.
Elsi Katainen
Arvoisa puhemies, hyvä komissaari, luonnon monimuotoisuuden edistäminen on tärkeää, mutta ennallistamisasetuksen toimeenpanossa on pidettävä järki mukana. Euroopan metsäisimmässä maassa tulee olemaan lähes miljardin euron kustannukset vuosittain.
Suomessa valtaosa metsistä on tavallisten kansalaisten yksityisessä omistuksessa. Meillä on sukupolvien kokemus metsien vastuullisesta uudistamisesta niin, että ne tarjoavat hyvinvointia myös tuleville sukupolville. Ennallistamista ei pidä tehdä metsänomistajien kustannuksella eikä omaisuuteen kajoamalla. Lähtökohtana on edelleen oltava vapaaehtoisuus, riittävä rahoitus ja yksityisen omaisuuden kunnioittaminen. Jos puun saatavuutta rajoitetaan liikaa, seurauksena voi olla vähemmän työtä ja vähemmän arvonlisää.
Liialliset rajoitukset hidastavat myös fossiilisesta irtautumista. Viimeistään nyt on löydettävä kustannustehokkaimmat ennallistamistoimet ja tehtävä ne yhdessä maa- ja metsänomistajien kanssa. Onko komissio valmis tähän?
Szanowni Państwo, wszyscy wiemy, że żaden brukselski urzędnik zza biurka nie rozwiąże problemów z suszą, z brakiem wody, z pożarami lasów czy pożarami cennych przyrodniczo obszarów.
Elżbieta Katarzyna Łukacijewska
Uważam, że najlepiej to zrobią państwa członkowskie ze swoimi ekspertami, specjalistami i leśnikami, którzy najlepiej znają specyfikę swoich ekosystemów, wiedzą jak je chronić i jak nimi zarządzać i po prostu trzeba ich wspierać i im na to pozwolić. Jak można stosować jedno podejście do wszystkich krajów członkowskich, skoro różnią się one zarówno warunkami przyrodniczymi, strukturą własności, ale także sposobem gospodarowania? Szefowa Komisji Europejskiej powtarzała: mniej biurokracji. A co państwo robią? Proponujecie jeszcze więcej biurokracji i nie wiadomo kto za nią zapłaci.
Pytanie do Komisji: w jaki sposób Komisja będzie oceniała krajowe plany, na podstawie jakiej metodologii, na podstawie jakich danych, skoro część metodologii w sprawie dotyczącej poziomów ustalania nie została jeszcze przyjęta? Proszę państwa, ani nie wiecie jak to zrobić, ani nie wiecie jak za to zapłacić.
Martin Hojsík
Thank you very much. Thank you, sorry, I really have to be fair and try to stick to the same extra time, let's call it, for everybody. A teraz poprosím kolegyňu Trócsányi, nech sa páči.
Monsieur le Président, Madame la Commissaire, cet été l'Europe a séché sous des chaleurs inédites et les incendies ont ravagé des dizaines de milliers d'hectares de forêts.
Laurence Trochu
Bien sûr, le réchauffement climatique est la source principale de ces épisodes extrêmes, mais pas seulement. En excluant l'homme de la nature, en le présentant comme un prédateur plutôt qu'un gestionnaire, la philosophie de ces réglementations se trompe. Elle se trompe, interdisant parfois les réserves d'eau nécessaires à l'irrigation de l'été. Elle se trompe en s'opposant au nettoyage des forêts ou à la mise en place de coupe-feu. Elle se trompe si elle considère l'homme comme une menace.
Le chasseur, le paysan, le berger ont façonné et entretenu depuis des siècles des paysages de notre nature dont on veut les exclure depuis quelques années. Ce sont pourtant eux qui aiment, chérissent et connaissent le mieux ses bruits et ses odeurs, ses fureurs et ses fragilités, ses cycles et ses habitudes. La restauration de la nature doit commencer par la restauration de la place de l'homme au sein de celle-ci pour la recevoir, la conserver, la contraindre parfois et enfin la transmettre. Je vous remercie.
Martin Hojsík
Ako poslednú z neprihlásených poslancov poprosím kolegu Bernhubera, buďte si istý.
Sehr geehrter Herr Vizepräsident, liebe Frau Kommissarin, geschätzte Kolleginnen und Kollegen, mit 1. September mussten die Mitgliedstaaten ihre nationalen Wiederherstellungspläne nach Brüssel schicken.
Alexander Bernhuber
Österreich hat hier vorbildlich gearbeitet und hat hier einen ersten Plan geliefert. Die Europäische Kommission hat nicht geliefert, wenn es darum geht, einen Finanzierungsbericht zu liefern. Und da hätten Sie schon über ein Jahr dafür Zeit gehabt. Und jetzt stehen wir in dieser Lage, dass wir beginnen sollen mit einer Umsetzung, aber absolut keine Idee herrscht, wie hier Finanzierung stattfinden wird. Und ich bin viel unterwegs in unserem Land und ich werde viel gefragt, wie hier Maßnahmen umgesetzt werden sollen, wie hier erreicht werden soll, dass nicht unsere Bäuerinnen und Bauern die Maßnahmen zahlen müssen, wo ohnehin schon von der Europäischen Kommission Pläne vorgelegt wurden, wo ein Agrarbudget eher gekürzt wird als hochgerechnet oder besser aussieht.
Und Sie haben jetzt die Chance, vielleicht noch mal klarer darauf einzugehen, wie wirklich Finanzierung aussehen wird, wird es von Ihnen noch einen klaren Plan geben bzw. wie Sie auch dazu stehen, was mein Kollege Herbert Dorfmann angesprochen hat, ob man es nicht besser verschieben sollte um ein paar Jahre, bis hier Klarheit herrscht. Es wird schon Natur wiederhergestellt, viele Programme gibt es schon, aber ich glaube, das ist nicht unbedingt das Richtige dazu. Herzlichen Dank.
Martin Hojsík
Thank you. And now we come to catch-the-eye and as a first one, I would like to give the floor to Madame Ripa.
Manuela Ripa
Allein angesichts von immer mehr Dürren, Hitzewellen und Überschwemmungen muss der Natur wieder mehr Raum gegeben und ihr höchste Priorität eingeräumt werden. Deshalb ist es kurzsichtig, wenn Mitgliedstaaten sagen, die Umsetzung der Wiederherstellungsverordnung ist uns zu teuer. Denn wenn wir heute unsere Wälder, Moore, Flüsse und Wiesen nicht erhalten, werden die Folgekosten durch Hochwasser, Hitze, Dürre und Ernteausfälle um ein Vielfaches höher sein. Und diese Kosten können wir uns nicht leisten. In zwei Wochen trifft sich die Welt zur Biodiversitätskonferenz in Armenien.
Wenn Europa dort eine Führungsrolle beim Schutz der biologischen Vielfalt einnehmen möchte, kann ich nur sagen: Leadership beginnt zu Hause. Wir können von anderen keine ambitionierten Maßnahmen verlangen und gleichzeitig unsere eigenen Beschlüsse verzögern. Deshalb: Der Schutz der Natur muss jetzt konsequent umgesetzt werden. Denn Naturschutz bedeutet nicht nur Pflanzen und Tiere zu schützen, sondern auch unsere Gesundheit, unsere Landwirtschaft, unsere Wirtschaft und die Lebensqualität kommender Generationen.
Kristian Vigenin
Регламентът относно възстановяването на природата е един от ключовите стълбове на Европейския съюз не само за опазването на биологичното разнообразие и за предотвратяването на най-тежките последици от климатичните промени. Той е от съществено значение за продоволствената сигурност, здравето и общото благосъстояние на европейските граждани. За България правилното прилагане на този регламент е от изключителна важност, тъй като 44% от територията на страната е защитена и има 92 защитени местообитания. Освен това България е една от малкото страни членки, които вече са изготвили национални програми за възстановяване съгласно изискванията на регламента. В тази връзка оценката на Комисията за финансовите нужди за пълното прилагане на регламента закъснява с повече от година.
В същото време в предложението за новата бюджетна рамка на Европейския съюз отсъства целта 10% от бюджета да се отделя за биологично разнообразие и не предвижда програмата LIFE като инструмент за финансиране на дейности в областта на околната среда и климатичните промени. Призоваваме Европейската комисия да предприеме необходимите действия, за да гарантира, че поставените цели няма да останат само на хартия. Благодаря.
Bert-Jan Ruissen
Dank u wel, voorzitter. Vorige maand presenteerde mevrouw von der Leyen hier in de plenaire met heel veel bravoure een heus pact tegen goldplating: onnodige nationale eisen bovenop Europese voorschriften. Vandaag gaat het over de Europese natuurwetgeving. Voorzitter, als er ergens sprake is van goldplating, dan is het wel hier. Mijn land, Nederland, heeft in het verleden onnodig veel versnipperde natuurgebiedjes aangemerkt als Natura 2000.
En ik voorzie dat Nederland ook nu in haar definitieve natuurherstelplan allerlei extra's gaat inbouwen. Voorzitter, mijn oproep aan de Commissie is eigenlijk heel eenvoudig. Ga daadwerkelijk aan de slag met dat aangekondigde pact tegen goldplating. Ga met lidstaten om de tafel. Bied lidstaten de mogelijkheid om terug te komen op eerdere aanwijzingen van Natura 2000-gebieden bijvoorbeeld.
En help lidstaten om met realistische natuurherstelplannen te komen en houd daarbij ook voldoende rekening met de verschillen tussen lidstaten qua bevolkingsdichtheid. Dank u wel.
Billy Kelleher
Not funding the Nature Restoration Law, Minister, would be a fundamental breach of trust and it would be a fundamental betrayal to the aims and principles of what the Nature Restoration Law is trying to do, which is repair nature across Europe. I'm very concerned that there's no real recognition of the need to fund this particular program. And if you look at the MFF and the national and regional plans from across the country and the proposals put forward by the Commission, it simply doesn't give me any confidence that there will be funding in place to ensure that the voluntary aspects of this particular worthy law won't be implemented. And we sold this on good faith across this particular house, right across, on the view that first it would be voluntary, but it also would be funded. So it's now an obligation on the Council to come forward with proposals in the MFF that will underpin what this is about, which is restoring nature.
Commissioner, just very briefly on Article 8, which provides flexibility for urban areas, I hope that you look at this again to make sure it doesn't inhibit house developments during a time of crisis.
Cristina Guarda
Foreste, pascoli, zone umide, impollinatori sono alcuni di quegli soggetti naturali che ci offrono servizi ecosistemici essenziali che generano un risparmio concreto sui costi delle istituzioni, delle imprese e dei cittadini e un potenziale reddito aggiuntivo anche per gli agricoltori e i territori. Ma per beneficiarne dobbiamo investire nella loro conservazione e nel loro ripristino, non nell'ennesima gettata di cemento per un supermercato di cui non c'è bisogno. Questo significa fare scelte concrete di bilancio, garantire risorse dedicate a strumenti come LIFE che sostengono progetti di riqualificazione e ripristino della natura. Dal 2025 quasi 50 sono state le iniziative sottoscritte da migliaia di rappresentanti di istituzioni, regioni, imprese, ricercatori, cittadini che hanno difeso quei fondi. Una mobilitazione che non potete ignorare, nemmeno dopo gli attacchi vergognosi dei colleghi delle destre contro di loro.
Le imprese, grandi e piccole, si sono già rese conto di quanto preziosi fossero questi fondi, i fondi LIFE, quando aprirete voi gli occhi?
Seán Kelly
Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. As one who was centrally involved in ensuring that nature restoration law was passed in Parliament, withstanding a lot of opposition, but that's now in the past, I welcome this debate. But I am not happy that the Member States are not playing their part, and I would ask the Commission to bring all pressures to bear on the Member States so that they will submit their plans. Secondly, one of the key elements in ensuring it was passed in Parliament was that funding for farmers would be outside of the CAP and the measures would be voluntary. This has to be done, and we have to ensure that they're incorporated in the Member States' plans, but also in the next MFF and the next CAP, because it would be a betrayal of the promises made to ensure it was passed if that doesn't happen.
So that's key. So we want to see this happening as soon as possible. The public want it, farmers are willing to play their part, but we have to deliver. Agus colú agus is féidir é sin a dhéanamh is luaithe a bheidh muid in ann an nádúr a chóiriú. Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Arvoisa puhemies, EU:n ennallistamisasetus on yksi tämän vuosisadan kaameimpia EU-politiikan virheitä. Metsiä koskevan laajamittaisen suojelun skenaario sahaisi Suomesta yli 20 000 työpaikkaa. Jos 20 000 suomalaiselta lähtee työ alta, työttömyyskortistoon lähtee pitkä jono perheenisiä ja perheenäitejä. Ja vasemmisto, niin kutsuttu työntekijöiden puolustaja, iloitsi tällaisen tappomoukarin mennessä läpi. Samalla te haluatte hakata talouskasvumme.
Luonnonvarakeskuksen arvion mukaan ennallistamisasetus voi sirkkelöidä jopa liki kolme miljardia euroa vuodessa pois Suomen talouden arvonlisäyksestä. Valtion kassa on vasemmistolla tunnetusti loputon, mutta sanon tämän silti. Suomalaisen metsäjätin pääjohtaja varoitti jopa puolentoista miljardin vuosittaisesta lovesta valtion kassaan. Ennallistamisasetus on täysi katastrofi. Kiitos.
Martin Hojsík
And that concludes Catch-the-eye and now I would like to give the floor to Commissioner Roswall, please, Madam, the floor is yours.
Thank you, President, Minister, members of Parliament.
Jessika Roswall
As I said in my opening remarks, this summer clearly showed what is at stake and what the cost of inaction is. Minister Byrne, Jutta Paulus, and Dela Burkhardt, all you mentioned this. It is worth repeating: the economic impact, 180 billion euros just this year. And this we cannot continue like this. The Nature Restoration Regulation is not a silver bullet, I agree, but it is one tool to start building resilience.
And as this debate also shown, successful restoration depends on getting the implementation right. We need to make it work in practice. A first crucial step is the submission of the national plans, as Cesar Luena said, and we will do everything we can to support the member states on a pragmatic implementation. And I just want to say that I'm in contact with all the member states and as the minister will probably say, they are actively progressing in this work. Many of you have highlighted concerns over the costs.
And as I said in the beginning, we have funds available, these must be used, but let me also agree that of course we need a long-term solution, which is why the next MFF will be an important milestone. The Commission has proposed an MFF with clear spending targets on this and I really count on your support. I also hear your concerns over what this law will mean for those who are closest to restorations in farms and foresters. Jessica Polfjärd mentioned this and this is the reason why we will continue to work closely with them, including to guide member states on which areas restoration is needed and which flexibilities we have in place. And I want to be very clear that restoration does not mean taking land out of production.
On, oh now he's left, but on urban development, yes, the regulation provides flexibility to accommodate housing developments. Finally, we can only do this together. The Commission is committed, the Council is committed, businesses, I met a lot of them, are committed. They recognize that economic and financial resilience depends on nature, water availability, soil fertility and so forth. And maybe also most importantly, as Member Gerbrandy said, people are committed.
The latest Eurobarometer reconfirmed that EU citizens, their large support for nature restoration. So I really count on you to support these goals. Thank you very much for the debate.
Martin Hojsík
Thank you, Madam Commissioner. And now to conclude the debate, let me give the floor to Minister Byrne for the Council, please. Minister.
Thomas Byrne
A Uachtaráin, a mhuintir an Choimisiúin, a chomhghleacaithe, is deis mhaith í seo chun an dlí seo a phlé. Is céim stairiúil é athchóiriú an dúlra, agus tagann tairbhe as an athchóiriú sin do gach duine. Tá an creat dlíthiúil againn anois, anois an t-am chun an creat sin a chur i gcrích. Ní mór dúinn oibriú le chéile, an Chomhairle, an Pharlaimint agus an Coimisiún, chun tacaíocht a thabhairt do na Ballstáit agus iad ag forbairt pleananna athchóirithe dúlra. Agus caithfimid freisin tacaíocht an phobail a choimeád.
Má dhéanaimid é seo, is féidir linn ár n-uaillmhianta a chur i gcrích agus dul chun cinn a dhéanamh ar an talamh. Caithfidh an Eoraip fanacht ina ceannaire, agus comhghleacaithe, táimid ag tnúth le bheith ag obair libh go léir chun an dlí seo a chur i bhfeidhm.
Go raibh maith agaibh.
Martin Hojsík
Thank you very much, Minister. Rozprava sa k tomuto skončila a dovoľte mi informovať vás, že rokovanie sa prerušuje a bude pokračovať o siedmej hodine rozpravami o prípadoch porušovania ľudských práv, demokracie a zásad právneho štátu. Počujeme sa čoskoro.
Javi López
Yeah, it's on time. The sitting is resumed and we are moving to the next item on the agenda, that is debates on cases of breaches of human rights, democracy and the rule of law, the rule 150. The first urgency is human rights situation in Iran, notably the cases of Taraneh Rahimi and Leila Abolhasani. The first speaker is the author of the resolution, Mr. Lopatka, for one minute.
Reinhold Lopatka
Thank you, President. Taraneh Rahimi's family says she cannot walk no longer. According to her cousin, a prison doctor ordered urgent hospital treatment and alleged torture worsened her condition. The authorities refused, telling her that she would be executed anyway. Taraneh, a young student, and Leila Abolhasani, a mother of two, face execution following prosecution linked to January protests.
Leila was reportedly filming a burning shop, Taraneh was arrested simply for taking part in the protest. This represents an alarming expansion of criminal liability, its consequences reach into every family that hopes for a free Iran. Iran must revoke both sentences and suspend all executions. Today we can start with a strong support for this resolution. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is co-author of the resolution, Mrs. Incir, for one minute.
Evin Incir
Colleagues, how much more evidence must the victims provide before the world finally acts? Only in January tens of thousands were murdered in the hands of the mullah regime in Iran. Four years after the killing of Jina Amini, the Iranian regime continues to answer courage with bullets, prison and execution. Taraneh Rahimi, Leila Abolhasani and many others right now face execution simply for standing up against oppression. Their sentences must be overturned.
Execution must be halted and political prisoners must be freed. This repression does not stop at Iran's border. The regime threatens dissidents here in Europe and has even with its tentacles organized criminal gangs carried out attacks. What are we waiting for? Enough, Europe must act, strengthen sanctions and hold the perpetrators accountable and end the gender apartheid.
To the courage people in Iran, your fight for freedom continues being our fight.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Dear speaker, European selective moral disgusts me. A 20-year-old girl Taraneh was sentenced to death in Iran for waging war against Allah. She simply opposed the Islamic regime. What is Europe doing? Our highest officials are having dialogues with the killers.
The Islamic regime is constantly killing people, many just like Taraneh. But you on the left tell me, where are your boat stunts towards the Strait of Hormuz? I have not seen Greta Thunberg sailing there with leftist members of parliament. Is it so that your boats stay in dock because the killing is done in the name of Islam? In reality, the Iranian people don't need your stunts.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. García Armida Vandervelde for one minute as a author also of the resolution.
Gracias, Presidente, Commissioner. If you do not confess to your crimes, we will rape your twin sister in front of you. These are the words used by prison guards against 19-year-old Taraneh Rahimi. She and her sister Romina have been tortured, dragged by their hair, and beaten for months by the Iranian regime. And today, Taraneh faces a death sentence.
Romina faces 25 years in prison. Their alleged crime: standing up for freedom during the January protests. And four years ago, in this very house, we stood with Iranian women and chanted "Jin, Jiyan, Azadî". And today, I want to say to my sisters in Iran: you are not alone. I am here with you, and I want Europe to be there for you.
Words are not enough. And thousands of Iranian women need our help. Let us recognize gender apartheid for what it truly is: a crime against humanity. Let us maximize the pressure on the regime.
And let us stand with Taraneh, Romina, and so many others until they can hear these words in freedom. Thank you.
Javi López
Muchísimas gracias. The next speaker is Mrs. Newman for one minute as a co-author of the resolution.
Hannah Neumann
Tahaneh Rahimi and Leila Bolasani are on death row like so many others who demonstrated peacefully for freedom in Iran. They sang, they danced, they chanted for freedom. The regime shut down the internet and started to shoot. Tens of thousands were killed, yet those responsible still enjoy power and impunity. But witnesses spoke, human rights defenders documented, names have been identified, chains of command traced.
Speaker 455
The evidence survived. Dear colleagues, we cannot bring back those who were killed, but we can make sure that those responsible do not go unpunished. The regime may control the courts in Tehran, but it does not control the courtrooms in Europe.
So if justice cannot be pursued inside Iran, it must be pursued elsewhere. And I call on Germany, France, the Netherlands, Sweden: take up these cases under universal jurisdictions, hold the perpetrators accountable. Iranian protesters should not fear the courtroom, their oppressors should. Baraye azadi.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Tangar Correa for one minute as a author of the resolution.
António Tânger Corrêa
Senhor Presidente, Senhora Comissária, a situação no Irão não é só uma situação política, é uma situação de crimes contra a humanidade. Exemplos disso, como já aqui foi dito, Tahereh Rahimi, a sua irmã gémea Romina, Leila Bolasani. Estas, a primeira e a terceira condenadas à pena de morte por dizerem aquilo que pensam, por defenderem os seus direitos. E nós? Nós falamos, a União Europeia fala, mas a União Europeia faz o quê?
E não são só os tribunais europeus que podem julgar o Irão. Não, nós temos que fazer mais qualquer coisa. Nós aplicamos sanções à Rússia, e justamente, e nós temos que aplicar sanções ao Irão. Nós temos que explicar ao Irão que não se pode comportar desta forma com crimes contra a humanidade neste mundo que é o nosso. É o nosso mundo, são os nossos irmãos e não se podem matar, que a pior morte de todas, o pior assassinato, é matar os seus próprios.
Nós não podemos admitir isso. Muito obrigado.
Javi López
Muito obrigado. The next speaker is Mr. Botenga for one minute as an author of the resolution.
Marc Botenga
Colleagues, there's no question or discussion, Taraneh Leila must not be executed. No one should. But let us here tonight also mention Sima, 35 years old, kidney patient. She had to visit seven pharmacies in Tehran to find life-saving medication. Why?
Because Western sanctions are making medicine scarce and expensive. They're a death sentence for many Iranians today. Your sanctions are killing, and your friends are killing too. Niloufar, young Pilates instructor, dreamt of building her own Instagram page for her workout videos, killed by an Israeli strike on her apartment. Parniya, 23 years old, a teacher, a poet, killed at home in Tehran by Israel.
Hanna, 8 years old, Zahra, 7, Athena, 6, Nadia, 9, over 120 children killed by a US strike on a girls' school in Iran. Yet none of these received the empathy of this Parliament, not even a mention of these names. Why? Because they were killed by your friends in a war that many of your governments supported.
You invoke human rights of Iranians but destroy their country and their lives with sanctions and bombs. The hypocrisy must stop tonight.
Javi López
Thank you very much. Now the next speaker is Mrs. Nerudova for one minute.
Leila Abolhasani, Taraneh Rahimi, Zahra Shahbaz Tabari, Verisheh Moradi, Arghavan Fallahi, Bita Hemmati. Women are being sentenced to death in Iran. We have stood in silence with them. Now we must act. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Riedel for one minute, representing S&D Group.
Merci Monsieur le Vice-Président, chers collègues. Dix exécutions par mois, c'est la cadence sinistre du régime iranien. En Iran, réclamer juste de quoi manger dans la rue peut valoir la torture, la prison et trop souvent la peine de mort.
Chloé Ridel
La guerre lancée en février par Trump et Israël n'a pas non plus libéré le peuple iranien, elle a offert au régime un prétexte pour le réprimer davantage. Les Iraniens n'ont pas besoin qu'on fasse la guerre en leur nom, ils ont besoin de justice, qu'on arrête de les exécuter, qu'on sanctionne les responsables de cette terreur et qu'on obtienne justice pour les victimes et leurs familles. Nous sommes rassemblés ce soir pour demander la libération immédiate de Leila, 43 ans, mère de deux adolescentes, condamnée à mort pour guerre contre Dieu, et de Taraneh, une jeune iranienne de 20 ans condamnée sur des aveux arrachés sous la torture. Nous ne pouvons pas ici détourner le regard et nous continuerons de nous battre pour le mouvement Femme, Vie, Liberté et pour la liberté tout entière du peuple iranien. Merci.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Van Leeuwen for one minute, representing ECR.
Thank you very much, Chair. As we mark the World Day Against the Death Penalty this Saturday, we are still faced with the devastating reality of executions in Iran. In this mandate alone, we have adopted seven resolutions on Iran, but what changes? The repression only gets worse. In 2025, Iran carried out at least 2,159 executions, the highest number since 1981.
But we're not just talking numbers, we're talking about people: Taraneh Rahimi, Leila Abolhasani, but also Zahra Shabaz Tabari and Arghavan Fallahi and so many others.
They must be released. So let us remember, the regime can hear us, and so can the brave silenced people of Iran. So let us keep speaking, keep naming, and keep standing with the Iranian people. And I call upon our national leaders, we must never, ever negotiate with a regime that exploits wars as a pretext to carry out executions on their own people. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Auštrevičius for one minute, representing Renew Group.
Petras Auštrevičius
Mr. Chair, Madam Commissioner, colleagues. The mullahs' regime in Iran remains as consistent as ever.
The imprisonment, torture, and execution of political opponents are everyday occurrences. Taraneh Rahimi and Leila Abolhasani were given death sentences based on unfounded charges obtained through torture and other forms of coercion. The regime has also sentenced two other women, Zahra Tabari and Arghavan Fallahi, to death for alleged membership of the PMOI. Over the past few months, 11 political prisoners have been executed on charges related to the PMOI. The rulers of Tehran fear the PMOI and extend their oppressive policies.
The EU must urgently expand the list of Iranian officials subject to sanctions and step up the restricting of Iranian diplomatic representation in the EU and abandon its policy of appeasement of the most cruel regime in the world. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. El siguiente orador es Nicolás Pascual de la Parte por un minuto.
Thank you, Mr. President, Commissioner, colleagues. What is happening in Iran is not only a human rights crisis. It is not. It is a systematic campaign of repression against a people demanding only freedom and dignity. Let's not forget that Iran has the highest death sentence rate per capita in the world.
The cases of Taraneh Rahimi and Leila Abolhasani are a stark reminder of this reality. Taraneh, one of the Rahimi twins, faces the death penalty, while Leila Abolhasani has also been sentenced to death following the January protests.
Nicolás Pascual de la Parte
And they are not alone. Arghavan Fallahi, Sara Shaban-Tabari, Um-Barishesh Moradi are also among the women political prisoners at risk of execution. These cases raise grave consequences and concerns about arbitrary detention, due process, and the use of the death penalty to silence dissidents. We cannot remain silent. The European Union must continue to stand firmly with the Iranian people, particularly the women and young people who are courageously demanding freedom.
We have to call to the United Nations Security Council for a referral of Iran's regime to the International Criminal Court. Thank you very much.
Taraneh e Leila sono state condannate a morte in Iran.
Alessandra Moretti
La loro colpa è essere due donne che hanno avuto il coraggio di partecipare alle manifestazioni contro il regime che continua a sparare sulle persone. Dall'inizio della guerra in Iran sono stati giustiziati 29 uomini e dall'inizio dell'anno almeno 16 donne perché si sono ribellate al terrore. L'iter della giustizia iraniana è sempre lo stesso: minacce e torture durante gli interrogatori, procedure legali viziate, prove incomplete, divieto per la difesa di poter esercitare i propri diritti e pena capitale come soluzione finale. Queste due condanne non devono restare invisibili. Teniamo alta l'attenzione sulla vicenda ed esercitiamo pressione sul regime iraniano con ogni mezzo perché vengano rispettate le vite e le libertà di queste due donne e di tutte le loro sorelle e di tutti i loro fratelli che subiscono condanne ingiuste e arbitrarie.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Březinová for one minute.
Veronika Vrecionová
Znovu a znovu zde u tohoto pultíku kritizujeme teroristický režim íránských ajatolláhů. Znovu a znovu zde odsuzujeme popravy politických oponentů, kritiků režimu, bojovníků za lidská práva a také naprosto náhodných Íránců a Íránek. A já se tedy ptám, proč se pořád snažíme o nějaký podivný appeasement a dohodu?
Írán potlačuje všechna možná lidská práva, práva žen, práva etnických, národnostních a náboženských menšin, práva LGBT lidí a mnoha dalších. Írán financuje a podporuje teroristické skupiny napříč celým regionem. Írán proti nám vede skrytý i otevřený aktivní boj, snaží se nás odříznout od energetických surovin, podporuje Rusko a vraždění na Ukrajině. Postavme se tvrdě za naše zájmy, ale především za zájmy obyčejných Íránek a Íránců. Děkuji.
Seán Kelly
Go mhaith agat, a Chathaoirligh. Is scéal fíorbhrónach é seo. "Mom, I will go with them. I haven't done anything." This is what Romina Rahimi said to her mother as Iranian security forces seized her from the family home.
Hours earlier, they had taken her twin sister, Taraneh. For months, their mother searched for them. When she finally saw them in prison, their faces were bruised and swollen and Taraneh could barely walk. Their mother recognized them only by their voices. Like many young Iranians dreaming of change, Taraneh and Romina joined the January protests.
They were charged with waging war against God, based on confessions extracted through torture. Romina has been sentenced to 25 years, and Taraneh is one of over 100 sentenced to death over the January protests. This is unacceptable. The authorities must release all arbitrarily detained political prisoners. Agus in ainm Dé, lig don bheirt óg seo ina saoir.
Go raibh maith agat.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Mr. Kelly. Now we have two catch-the-eyes, we are going to take it. The first one is Mr. Stier for one minute.
Davor Ivo Stier
Hvala predsjedniče. Javio sam se za riječ jer su nas iz ekstremne ljevice optužili za dvostruke kriterije, da žalimo samo za neke žrtve, a druge zanemarujemo. Ja odbacujem te optužbe. Mi naravno žalimo za svaku nevinu žrtvu, a reći ću vam što je, što su dvostruki kriteriji.
Dvostruki kriteriji su kada Međunarodni kazneni sud optužuje i s pravom lidere na primjer Rusije ili Izraela iako nisu stranke Rimskog statuta, ali kada je riječ o iranskom režimu, Međunarodni kazneni sud ništa ne čini. Nikakve optužnice nisu podignute, a danas smo u ovoj raspravi čuli koliko bi to bilo opravdano i zato je itekako važno da glasamo za ovu rezoluciju gdje se i poziva Međunarodni kazneni sud da konačno podigne optužnice za one koji ugnjetavaju i sistematski krše ljudska prava u Iranu.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Presidente, comisaria, la política exterior de la Unión Europea está vinculada por el derecho internacional y por los derechos humanos, artículo 21 del Tratado, lo que exige estar a favor de la paz y en contra de la pena de muerte. Eso explica que los mismos que criticamos una guerra ilegal contra Irán por el estrecho de Ormuz con el pretexto de liberar a su pueblo, lo que no ha sucedido sino que ha reforzado el régimen de los mulas y los ayatolás y que ha encarecido exponencialmente la vida de los europeos, como guerra ilegal, los mismos denunciamos el insoportable balance de penas de muerte y de ejecuciones injustas por ese mismo régimen tiránico de los ayatolás que se ensaña con los miembros de la oposición y con la resistencia.
Por tanto, este debate es necesario, no solamente oportuno, para denunciar esa nueva condena de muerte de una mujer inocente perseguida por sus ideas. En Irán y en todas partes merece la atención del Parlamento Europeo y merece una resolución contundente con la aspiración de que algún día los culpables se sienten en el banquillo de la justicia internacional. Gracias, presidente.
Javi López
Muchas gracias. And now it's the turn for the European Commission and we have with us Commissioner Roswall and it's a pleasure. You have the floor.
Jessika Roswall
Thank you very much, President. Honorable members, on the 16th of September we marked the anniversary of the death of Mahsa Amini, a young and brave Iranian woman who was killed only for dreaming of a country where her rights are respected. Today we raise the cases of two other women, Taraneh Rahimi and Leila Abolhasani, who like many other Iranians risk their lives for simple aspiration to have their universal human rights and fundamental freedom respected, protected and fulfilled. This is unacceptable.
The high rate of executions in Iran is appalling. According to some sources, at least 932 cases have been reported so far in 2023. We are especially alarmed by the use of harsh sentences and executions to intimidate, suppress dissent, restrict civic space and freedom of expression, and target ethnic and religious minorities. Since 2011, the EU has imposed targeted sanctions against individuals and entities responsible for serious human rights violations in Iran. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps designation as a terrorist organization in February sent a clear message: there can be no impunity for the repression of peaceful protests.
This approach will continue as long as necessary. Together with the member states, we strongly support accountability, including through the UN Fact-Finding Mission, Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in Iran, and the Human Rights Council. We are also mindful that, as the Nobel Prize winner Narges Mohammadi recently reminded in her moving interview, and I quote: "The Iranian population is caught between the government's domestic repression and the war." The EU deeply regrets the loss of innocent lives in Iran, including many children.
We have urged all sides to respect international humanitarian law and protect civilians in all circumstances. The EU is redoubling efforts towards diplomatic solutions as sustained engagement remains the only way to address our concerns with Iran. Honorable members, through multiple channels, the EU calls on Iranian authorities to immediately end the practice of imposing and carrying out death sentences, in particular those targeting protesters, dissidents, and political prisoners who are simply standing up for the respect of their basic rights. We urge the release of Taraneh, Leila, and all of those unjustly detained for exercising their legitimate right to freedom of expression. Tehran authority must understand that it is time to change this behavior towards its own people and the world.
Until that moment, the EU will spare no efforts in supporting the legitimate aspirations of Taraneh, Leila, and all Iranian women, children, and men who seek to live in a country where their rights are respected, protected, and fulfilled. Thank you for the debate.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Commissioner Roswall. This debate now is closed.
They have received seven motions for resolutions and the vote will be held tomorrow. With that we are moving to the next item on the agenda, that is the attempts by ruling party Georgian Dream to ban opposition parties in Georgia. And the first speaker is Mrs. Juknevičienė for one minute as a author of the resolution.
Colleagues, first I want to thank S&D group for initiating this resolution and debate. Some think Georgia is a lost case. They say, accept the situation, let's be realistic. Many thought that we Lithuanians were lost too, but we were not. Georgians have not given up.
People are still protesting, majority still wants to have the European future. That is why our message today is also important to them. Regime wants to ban the opposition parties. It pushed the German political foundations to close their offices in Tbilisi. It puts in prison those who work for democracy and the rule of law.
This is not strength, this is fear. Ivanishvili's regime choose Russia by refusing the will of Georgian people. Putinism will be defeated. Bidzinization of Georgia will be defeated. Russia is not the future for anyone.
Rasa Juknevičienė
Ukraine is still standing and fighting. Armenia also made its choice despite pressure from Moscow. So, hope is not lost. That is exactly why we must act now. Sanctions are a must on Ivanishvili and all those responsible.
Member states should not wait. The desire for freedom is stronger than fear. We should stand with Georgian people.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Kremer for one minute as author of the resolution.
Jan-Christoph Oetjen
Colleagues, how desperate must a government be to ban every political party but its own? How terrified of its own people must it be to beat up peaceful protesters, arrest journalists, and use chemical agents against its own population? But this is what we are witnessing in Georgia, where the Georgian Dream regime seems to have entered a bizarre Soviet revival mode, abroad by dragging Georgia away from its European future and back into the orbit of the Kremlin, and at home by trying to build a Soviet-style one-party state. But Georgian Dream has one problem, and that's that Georgians themselves don't want to be homo sovieticus again.
They don't want to just keep their heads down and their mouths shut. No, Georgians have tasted freedom, they've tasted Europe, and they will not give up on either. And that is exactly why we must not give up on Georgia, why we must stand with imprisoned journalists like Mesia Amaglobeli, why we must sanction Georgia's de facto leader Ivanishvili, and why we must send Georgian Dream's Soviet fantasies back to where they belong, into the darkest pages of our history books, because Georgia's future belongs in Europe. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Gosiewska for one minute as an author of the resolution.
Bidzina Iwaniszwili niszczy demokrację w Gruzji i prowadzi ten kraj w stronę rosyjskiej dyktatury. Przejął państwowe instytucje, podporządkował sobie wymiar sprawiedliwości, prześladuje opozycję i chce zdelegalizować partie polityczne swoich przeciwników. To nie jest już zwykły kryzys polityczny. To jest próba ustanowienia oligarchicznej dyktatury. A ofiarą tej politycznej zemsty jest Micheil Saakaszwili.
Małgorzata Gosiewska
Były prezydent Gruzji, człowiek, który walczył o europejską przyszłość swojego kraju i przeciwstawiał się rosyjskiej agresji, jest więziony przez ludzi, którzy chcą wyrwać Gruzję z europejskiej drogi. Mówię to jasno: uwolnić Micheila Saakaszwilego. Natychmiast, bezwarunkowo uwolnić wszystkich więźniów politycznych. I do Unii Europejskiej: przestańmy tylko potępiać. Czas na zdecydowane, skoordynowane działania wobec Iwaniszwilego, jego majątku i całej sieci ludzi, którzy utrzymują ten system represji.
Gruzja należy do narodu gruzińskiego i do Europy. Nie do Iwaniszwilego, nie do Putina. Dziękuję.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Brandstätter for one minute as author of the resolution.
Helmut Brandstätter
Thank you, President, dear Commissioner. The Georgian dream became a nightmare for the Georgian people. Georgia's oligarch is banning opposition parties. We've seen this before in Belarus. Two dictators, two regimes loyal to Putin, two people as hostages.
Both regimes jail political opponents, both on Moscow's orders, both killing the future of their own nations. Like Putin, they are just afraid of freedom. They're afraid of free speech. And now, like Putin and Lukashenko, they are also expelling European foundations like the Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung and the Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung.
Those organizations contributed to Georgia's success in the last decades. Some of them worked and learned in these organizations, so they learned democracy to destroy it later on. Colleagues, the people of Georgia is nothing like this regime. They are Europeans through and through, like we are, continuously fighting for freedom and for a European future. So I'm also optimistic because all bloody regimes fall.
All political prisoners, including Elene Khoshtaria, will walk free. And those who served Russia instead of Georgian people should pay a high price for their treason. And one more sentence, very interesting. The so-called patriots are not here. When we are talking here about freedom, about united Europe and fighting the dictatorships of Putin, they are just not here.
We know why.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr Orlando for one minute as a author of the resolution.
Signor Presidente, signora Commissaria, la Georgia sta vivendo un drammatico declino democratico mentre migliaia di cittadine e cittadini riempiono le piazze per rivendicare diritti e libertà.
Leoluca Orlando
Il partito Georgian Dream, risultato di maggioranza dopo elezioni caratterizzate da brogli e violenze, sta sistematicamente eliminando ogni opposizione per divenire l'unico partito presente in Parlamento. Centinaia di arresti senza alcuna motivazione giuridica e tra questi Mikheil Saakashvili, da anni in carcere senza motivazione, che sin dalla sua elezione nel 2004 come Presidente della Georgia aveva contrastato l'occupazione militare russa, aveva combattuto la corruzione e chiesto formalmente al Presidente Prodi l'ingresso in Unione Europea. Io ero presente quel giorno a Tbilisi a quella manifestazione. Georgian Dream è diventato non un sogno ma l'incubo dei georgiani, l'incubo georgiano, un partito del tutto subalterno alla Russia che continua peraltro ad occupare anche in maniera militare Abkhazia e Ossezia del Sud. Con queste scelte antidemocratiche e con questo condizionamento da parte della Russia viene da anni bloccato il processo di ingresso della Georgia nell'Unione Europea.
Commissione Europea e Stati membri devono usare tutte le leve disponibili e anche le sanzioni per sostenere il diritto del popolo georgiano di vivere in un paese democratico e per chiedere la liberazione dei detenuti politici ingiustamente carcerati. Grazie.
Herr Präsident, mehr Doppelmoral geht nicht. Sie sorgen sich um mögliche Verbote von Oppositionsparteien in Georgien.
Warum wollen Sie dann in Deutschland die AfD verbieten oder auf europäischer Ebene die ESN-Partei? Merken Sie überhaupt diesen intellektuellen Widerspruch? Wer die Demokratie im eigenen Land angreift, hat kein Recht, sich über mutmaßliche Demokratiedefizite anderswo aufzuregen. Sie machen sich komplett unglaubwürdig. Und dieser Mangel an Glaubwürdigkeit zeigt sich auch in Ihrer selektiven Empörung, denn als in der Ukraine über 20 Parteien verboten wurden, gab es keinen Aufschrei.
Im Gegenteil, Sie belohnten Selenskyj mit noch mehr Milliarden. Sie missbrauchen das Konzept der Menschenrechte aus geopolitischen Gründen für Ihren selektiven Moralimperialismus. Und dieser selektive Moralimperialismus kostet uns Glaubwürdigkeit auf internationalem Parkett. Auch deshalb verlieren wir global an Einfluss. Was stört Sie überhaupt an Georgien?
Tomasz Froelich
Das Land entwickelt sich doch ordentlich. Die Fakten: 8 % Wirtschaftswachstum, davon können wir nur träumen. Im Chandler Good Government Index schneidet Georgien besser ab als mancher EU-Mitgliedstaat. Und im Rechtsstaatlichkeitsranking des World Justice Project ist Georgien auf Platz 1 in Osteuropa und Zentralasien. Worüber reden wir hier eigentlich?
Ich sag's Ihnen: Es geht Ihnen gar nicht um Demokratie und Partizipation. Es geht darum, dass Georgien den woken Wahnsinn und die LGBT-Propaganda ablehnt, weil es seine starke christliche Tradition bewahren möchte.
Und es geht darum, dass sich Georgien nicht am Sanktionsregime gegen Russland beteiligt, weil es nicht zu einer zweiten Ukraine werden möchte. Das müssen wir verstehen. Georgien ist ein kleines Land in schwieriger Umgebung: Russland, Iran, Türkei. Unter solchen Bedingungen muss sich Georgien anders verhalten, als Sie es gerne hätten. Wir sollten das berücksichtigen und wir sollten Georgien als wichtigen Partner, als Brücke nach Asien verstehen.
Das ist Realpolitik. Ihr konfrontativer Ansatz hingegen treibt Georgien nur in die Arme fremder Hegemonialmächte und das ist nicht in unserem Interesse.
Javi López
Well, thank you very much. Two comments about your intervention. First, please, this is not, this is a parliament, this is not a bar. First of all, we are talking about the attempts by the ruling party Georgian Dream to ban opposition parties in Georgia and please try to stick to the item that we are discussing. And secondly, be respectful with your words because matters what we say here, especially when we are talking about the LGBT or other collectives deserves at least respect.
Now we are moving to the next speaker, that is Mr. McAllister, our chair in the Foreign Affairs Committee, this time representing the EPP group.
David McAllister
Thank you, Mr. President, for your words. Mr. President, Madam Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, a candidate country in name only, that is how the Commission depicted Georgia during the presentation of the 2025 enlargement report. Unfortunately, almost a year later, the regime in Tbilisi is once more proving that this assessment was correct. In pursuing a ban on every major opposition party, the regime has taken another callous step towards authoritarian rule. Helmut Brandstätter already mentioned it.
On the 30th of September, the Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung and the Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung were forced to close their offices due to a new regulation on foreign grants. It enforces far-reaching state control over international funding and in some cases even provides for criminal penalties.
Both foundations have stood out through their decade-long contribution to political education, democratic pluralism, and European integration. All the more it is now important that we stand by the Georgian people who by an overwhelming majority rally behind the goal of European integration. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much, chair. Siguiente orador es el señor Ross Sempere por un minuto representando el grupo de los socialistas y demócratas.
Marcos Ros Sempere
Gracias presidente, comisaria. El futuro de Georgia pertenece a su pueblo y solo a su pueblo. Durante años, desde la Unión Europea hemos construido una relación política y parlamentaria muy estrecha con Georgia. Yo mismo lo he comprobado, el pueblo georgiano es un pueblo hermano. Pero hoy sus autoridades persiguen a la oposición, asfixian a los movimientos sociales y acorralan a la prensa libre.
Por eso, desde esta cámara reclamamos la liberación de los presos políticos, exigimos sanciones al régimen y pedimos elecciones democráticas. Queremos a Georgia cerca de la Unión Europea y eso exige elecciones libres y respeto al pluralismo. La Unión Europea debe estar siempre del lado del pueblo georgiano, de su derecho a decidir y de su aspiración a vivir en paz y en libertad. Y no vamos a darle la espalda ahora. Muchas gracias.
Javi López
Muchísimas gracias. The next speaker is Mr. Moreira da Silva for one minute.
Obrigado, senhor presidente. George Steiner via a Europa como um mapa de cafés, lugares onde se conversa, se discorda e se pensa em liberdade. Traçou esse mapa de Lisboa a Odessa e deixou Moscovo de fora. Tbilisi, dizem, tem alguns dos melhores cafés do continente. Se Steiner tivesse atravessado o Mar Negro até Batumi, teria posto Tbilisi no mapa.
A Geórgia é cristã ortodoxa desde o século IV e guardou a sua língua e a sua fé contra todos os impérios. Setenta por cento dos georgianos querem pertencer à União Europeia. Sabem de que lado do mapa querem estar. Não nos cabe escolher governos em Tbilisi. Essa escolha pertence aos georgianos, em liberdade, com eleições livres, instituições sólidas e respeito pelo Estado de direito.
Cabe-nos dizer com clareza que um quinto do território georgiano continua ocupado pela Rússia. Nenhuma nação soberana encontra a sua liberdade na órbita de quem a ocupa. A porta da Europa deve continuar aberta e a mesa do café à espera. Muito obrigado.
Dainius Žalimas
Dear colleagues, in light of observing the attempt to ban political parties in Georgia, we must acknowledge that Europe's response to authoritarian consolidation in Georgia has been inadequate so far. The US, UK, and individual EU member states have gone further than Union in sanctioning those responsible for repression against Georgian people. We should close this gap. First, we should impose targeted sanctions and visa bans, including on especially judges enabling politically motivated repression. Second, engagement with Georgian authorities must depend on tangible steps to reverse this course and to implement Venice Commission recommendations, which are roadmap for restoring judicial independence and political pluralism.
Third, we should prevent policing equipment that could facilitate further repression from being sold or transferred to Georgia. Finally, Europe must strengthen direct support for independent media, political parties, civil society, while demanding the release of those imprisoned for political grounds. Thank you.
Szanowni Państwo, musimy powiedzieć to jasno: Gruzińskie Marzenie to tak naprawdę rosyjskie marzenie. To jest sowiecka grupa rekonstrukcyjna.
Iwaniszwili, Kobachidze, Papuaszwili - oni rekonstruują czasy sowieckie. To jest tak, jakby chcieli całą Gruzję zapakować do wehikułu i jak w filmie "Powrót do przeszłości" przenieść Gruzję do lat 70., 60. Opozycja aresztowana. Partie demokratyczne, prozachodnie delegalizowane. Sądów takich to nawet bolszewicy by Iwaniszwilemu pozazdrościli.
A media Iwaniszwilego, tego reżimu, są kopią propagandy agitek z czasów Breżniewa. I tę sowiecką grupę rekonstrukcyjną musimy rozgonić, bo Gruzja to wolny naród. Gruzja to naród europejski. Gruzja to naród wolnych ludzi. I upadek dyktatur nie zaczyna się w dniu wybuchu rewolucji.
Ten upadek zaczyna się wtedy, gdy wolny świat uświadamia ludziom, jak groźna jest to dyktatura i uświadamia ludziom, że trzeba działać. Czas na sankcje na zielone ludziki Putina, na Iwaniszwilego i wszystkich ludzi, którzy ten reżim w Gruzji tworzą. Dziękuję.
Davor Ivo Stier
Gracias, Presidente.
Predsjedniče, u prošloj debati sa ekstremne ljevice su nas optužili za dvostruke standarde, sada nas optužuju iz ekstremne desnice. I ja želim i njemu odgovoriti. Nema ničeg kršćanskog u kršenju ljudskih prava, u ugnjetavanju ljudskog dostojanstva ili u nepoštivanju ljudskog dostojanstva svakog čovjeka, nema ničeg kršćanskog u zabrani političkih oporbenih stranaka. Ono što vidimo u Gruziji nije zaštita kršćanskog identiteta, ono što vidimo u Gruziji je čista autokracija. I zbog toga moramo reagirati.
Nažalost, Gruzijski san je došao na vlast sa proeuropskom retorikom, ali jednom kad je bio na vlasti u djelima je pokazao da ide u potpunom suprotnom smjeru. I zato kada govorimo o kandidatima ne trebamo gledati što govore nego mjeriti njihova djela.
Javi López
Thank you very much. Now we are moving to the catch the eye. We have four catch the eye, we are going to take them all. The first speaker will be Lopatka, Mr. Lopatka.
Thank you, President. It was in October 2024 when I observed with colleagues the elections in Georgia.
Reinhold Lopatka
And we raised at that time serious concerns about pressure on voters. Now, after two years, Georgian Dream is moving from pressuring voters to excluding parties that could challenge its power. And I want to underline what also my colleague David McAllister mentioned already. I, with colleagues, took the chance to work with the Konrad Adenauer Foundation several times in Georgia. Now it's over.
It's finished. It was not possible anymore. Together with these developments, Georgian Dream creates the conditions for a one-party dictatorship. Our responsibility is to stand with all defenders of democracy in Georgia while their democratic power is systematically taken away. We have to fight and to support the democracy movement in Georgia.
Javi López
Thank you very much. El siguiente orador es el señor López Aguilar por un minuto.
Gracias, Presidente. El gobierno de Georgia, acosando y persiguiendo a su oposición, impone a Georgia un camino inverso y contrario a los valores europeos.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Pero es que Georgia contradice también los valores del Consejo de Europa, del que es uno de los 46 Estados miembros, una organización cuyo propósito es la promoción del Estado de derecho, la democracia y los derechos humanos. Segundo, Georgia figura todavía en la lista de espera de países que han abierto negociaciones para una futura adhesión. Y esto pone de manifiesto un problema que se ha discutido en este debate cuando hemos en el Consejo confrontado con la ampliación, exigiendo que exija enteramente a los candidatos cumplimiento estricto de los valores de la Unión Europea consagrados en su artículo 2. Y tercero, nos pone de manifiesto que en el caso de no cumplimiento, deberíamos tener algún dispositivo y quizá una reforma institucional que permita desclasificar, descatalogar finalmente a un Estado que camina en el sentido contrario a los valores de la Unión. Porque reconozcámoslo, Turquía todavía a estas alturas permanece en la lista de espera a pesar de que la virtualidad de esa candidatura hace muchísimo tiempo que dejó de ser creíble.
Javi López
Gracias, presidente.
Muchas gracias. The next speaker is Mr. Teun Knuinen for one minute.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Dear speaker, Europe is on its way to having a new dictatorship. The Georgian regime is tightening the screws even further on the nation, foreign-funded organizations, activists, and independent groups.
For a leadership seeking a dictatorship, these have posed a threat. But what is even more frightening for a party reaching for a dictatorship is opposition. Now, the ruling party is aiming to ban opposition parties. Time for everyone to wake up. The ruling party is called Georgian Dream.
It has turned into Georgian nightmare. That nightmare will not end if we just stand by as eyewitnesses. Europe must be tough against this regime. Impose visa bans, place sanctions. Let's say no to a new mini-Russia.
Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. And the last speaker is Mr. Sieper for one minute.
Lukas Sieper
Dear people of Europe. Last week I was sitting together with a circle of friends and one of them was a young woman from Georgia. And she asked me, how long do you think until Georgia joins the European Union? And I said, 20 years. Maybe 10, if things go well.
And I fear that this is the case because if we look to Georgia, the government forces its population far away from the path towards Europe. But it's just a matter of time. And so I say to the Georgian ruling party, I say to the Georgian oligarchs, I say to the Georgian puppets of Russia, enjoy your mansions, enjoy your luxury cars, enjoy your power, because eventually you will die. And then the next generation of Georgians will take over and they will lead Georgia to the European future. So maybe we have to wait, but the end goal is certain.
Thank you very much.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Mr. Sippel. And now it's the turn for the European Commission. With us we have Mr. Roswall. It's your turn.
Jessika Roswall
Thank you, President, honorable members of the European Parliament. Under Georgian Dream, Georgia continues to drift away from democratic norms and the European path chosen by its people. What we are witnessing is a systematic attack on democratic institutions, fundamental rights, political pluralism, and the rule of law.
The recent Constitutional Court lawsuit brought by the Georgian Dream parliamentarians to ban opposition parties ahead of the 2028 election is a part of this pattern. Such actions strike at the heart of democracy and they undermine Georgia's EU accession. The scale of the democratic backsliding in Georgia is unprecedented for a candidate country. The Commission's enlargement report from 2025 made this clear. Instead of advancing reforms and moving closer to the European Union, the Georgian authorities have taken actions that undermine the rule of law and shrink civic space.
They continue anti-EU rhetoric and disinformation aiming to undermine the credibility of EU among Georgian citizens. Distinguished members of Parliament, the Georgian people have long aspired to be a part of the European family. We continue to stand with the Georgian people in the face of current challenges. And in the face of the challenges, the European Union also responded.
We downgraded high-level political contacts with the authorities, we paused meetings of association agreement bodies, and we stopped assistance directly benefiting the authorities. In March 2026, we suspended visa-free travels for holders of Georgian diplomatic service and official passports. At the same time, we remain strongly committed to supporting the Georgian people and their civil society. The European Union calls on the Georgian Dream party to reverse its detrimental actions, amend anti-democratic legislation, and release arbitrarily detained opposition members. We urge the government to engage in meaningful dialogue with all political stakeholders to restore trust.
Our door is open for constructive dialogue with Georgia based on a mutual respect to find a way out of the current deadlock in our relations. The European Union stands with the people of Georgia and their democratic European aspiration. Thank you very much.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Commissioner. With this, the debate is now closed. I have received six motions for resolutions and the vote will be held tomorrow.
And now we are moving to the next item on the agenda, the last one, the last but not least, the cases of Ali Karimli and Anar Mammadli and other political prisoners in Azerbaijan. The first speaker is Mr. Mazylis for one minute as an author of the resolution.
Liudas Mažylis
Dėkoju, pirmininke, komisare, kolegos. Azerbaidžanas galėtų džiaugtis savo pagerėjusia tarptautine padėtimi regione ir atsigręžti į europines vertybes. O vietoje to tęsia karą prieš savo paties piliečius. Rugsėjį žymus Azerbaidžano žmogaus teisių gynėjas ir rinkimų stebėtojas Anaras Mammadli po akivaizdžiai ydingo proceso nuteistas 13 metų kalėjimo. O opozicijos veikėjas Ali Karimli už grotų laukia teismo.
Jis apkaltintas tariamu bandymu įvykdyti perversmą. Todėl kreipiuosi tiesiai į prezidentą Alijevą: paleiskit politinius kalinius. Jums nereikia demonstruoti jėgos prieš juos.
Jūsų šalis turtinga energetiniais ištekliais, geopolitinė reikšmė regione išaugusi, aktyvus karas su kaimynais nebevyksta. Tikroji politinė jėga šiandien būtų parodyti, kad Azerbaidžanas nebijo laisvo žodžio ir yra pasirengęs sugrįžti prie europinių žmogaus teisių įsipareigojimų bei atviros politinės konkurencijos principų. Dėkoju.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Assis for one minute as author.
Francisco Assis
Obrigado, senhor presidente. Não poderia começar esta intervenção sem manifestar a minha alegria pela libertação de Gubad Ibadoglu, por ele e pela sua família. Não podemos sequer imaginar o sofrimento deste ativista anticorrupção nos calabouços de um regime que recorre cada vez mais aos métodos mais perversos para silenciar as diversas oposições. Um dos casos que aqui nos traz é bem um exemplo dessa perversão. Segundo relatos credíveis, Ali Karimli foi sujeito à privação do sono durante mais de 70 dias, com barulho altíssimo a soar a cada 15 minutos junto à sua cela.
Nos períodos de calor extremo, contou apenas com 5 litros de água por semana. Este tipo de sevícias, em combinação com o isolamento, torna incontornável a utilização de uma palavra: tortura. Os opositores políticos no Azerbaijão são presos e são torturados.
Perante isto, não temos apenas o dever de sancionar os responsáveis de uma vez por todas, como temos de nos perguntar seriamente se queremos, se podemos, aliás, manter algum tipo de parceria com este regime controlado pela Rússia.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Gosiewska for one minute as author of the resolution.
Małgorzata Gosiewska
W Azerbejdżanie mamy do czynienia z systemowym tłumieniem opozycji, niezależnych mediów i społeczeństwa obywatelskiego. Ali Karimli, lider Azerbejdżańskiego Frontu Ludowego, ugrupowania proeuropejskiego, centroprawicowego i wywodzącego się z antykomunistycznego ruchu niepodległościowego, od listopada ubiegłego roku przebywa w areszcie. Postawiono mu zarzut próby siłowego przejęcia władzy, za który grozi dożywocie. Jego przypadek pokazuje, że represje dotykają tych, którzy opowiadają się za europejskim kierunkiem rozwoju Azerbejdżanu, za demokracją i odejściem od autorytarnego dziedzictwa postsowieckiego. Z kolei Anar Mammadli, obrońca praw człowieka i szef Centrum Monitoringu Wyborów i Studiów Demokratycznych, laureat Nagrody Praw Człowieka imienia Václava Havla, skazany na 13 lat więzienia po procesie, którego rzetelność jest poważnie kwestionowana.
Ale więźniów politycznych jest znacznie, znacznie więcej. Dane mówią o 328 więźniach politycznych w Azerbejdżanie. Europa nie może milczeć.
Współpraca energetyczna i gospodarcza z Azerbejdżanem nie może odbywać się kosztem praw człowieka ani kosztem tych, którzy w kraju reprezentują wartości demokratyczne i proeuropejskie. Dziękuję.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Barrena for one minute as an author of the resolution.
Dan Barna
Thank you, President. Dear colleagues, we must acknowledge a stark reality. Earlier this year, Azerbaijan's National Assembly unilaterally suspended cooperation with the European Parliament, dismissing our human rights concerns as ungrounded. Yet, outrageous new cases prove otherwise. While trade and connectivity projects with the EU flourish, democratic voices continue to fall victim to repression.
Alikram Aliyev, a prominent opposition leader, has been detained since November 2023. Nine months later, he remains behind bars in a deeply concerning condition. Similarly, a prominent human rights activist and government critic, Anar Mammadli, was spent more than two years in the pre-trial detention. This September, he was sentenced to 13 years in prison. This is already his second long sentence on politically motivated charges.
Many more human rights defenders, journalists, democratic opposition representatives are brutally persecuted. Our partnership with Azerbaijan cannot come at the expense of our foundational principles. We demand the immediate release of Ali Karimli, Anar Mammadli and all political prisoners. Thank you.
These are not isolated cases, but a broader pattern of repression against civil society.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Biedroń for one minute as author of the resolution.
Catarina Vieira
Dear Chair, colleagues, Commissioner. Let me start by welcoming the fact that Dr. Gubad Ibadoghlu, the 2024 Sakharov Prize finalist, has finally been allowed to leave house arrest and is now receiving essential medical care that he much needed. But his charges still must be dropped and he was far from being the only person arrested for political motivations in Azerbaijan. Look no further than the cases of opposition leader Ali Karimli and human rights defender Anar Mammadli. The first detained for nearly a year and subjected to inhumane treatment, the second just sentenced for 13 years in prison.
Like them, there are at least 300 others in the country. Criminalization is common practice towards opposition figures, human rights defenders, independent media and NGO workers. As Azerbaijan's main trading partner, the EU cannot turn a blind eye.
We should suspend energy trade relations with Azerbaijan until meaningful progress is made towards releasing all political prisoners and upholding democracy and rule of law. Breaking our reliance on fossil fuel rich authoritarian regimes must be a priority. Thank you so much.
Javi López
Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mrs. Mesure for one minute as author of the resolution.
Marina Mesure
Monsieur le Président, j'ai le sentiment que notre Parlement excelle dans l'art de se donner bonne conscience. Depuis plusieurs mois maintenant, nous multiplions les résolutions pour dénoncer la situation politique en Azerbaïdjan à juste titre, mais sans que nos actes suivent nos mots. Pourtant, sur le terrain, l'urgence est bien réelle. Elle frappe d'abord la société civile, les médias, les opposants politiques, tous broyés par le régime autoritaire d'Aliev. Elle frappe aussi les anciens dirigeants arméniens du Haut-Karabagh, toujours enfermés dans les geôles azéries au terme de procès factices.
Mais alors concrètement, que fait l'Union européenne ? D'une main, elle signe un nouvel accord de partenariat avec Bakou. De l'autre, elle envoie nos représentants de l'Union européenne en visite guidée dans le Haut-Karabagh vidé de sa population après l'épuration ethnique de 2023. Quel cynisme ! Alors évidemment, il faut exiger la libération immédiate et inconditionnelle de tous les prisonniers politiques azéris, ainsi que la libération immédiate et inconditionnelle de tous les prisonniers arméniens détenus illégalement.
Mais faire des résolutions ne suffit plus. Il est temps de conditionner nos relations avec l'Azerbaïdjan au respect strict des droits humains et des libertés fondamentales. Si nous ne le faisons pas, l'Union européenne perdra ce qu'il lui reste de crédibilité.
Karin Karlsbro
Herr talman, kommissionen. Att säga sin åsikt är inte ett brott. Att kritisera regeringar, kungar, presidenter är inte ett brott. Att klä sig som man vill är inte ett brott. Trots det så är det i land efter land sådana saker som är en av de vanligaste orsakerna till att människor berövas sin frihet, fängslas, torteras, till och med avrättas.
Respekt för demokratin, mänskliga rättigheter och rättsstat är en ledstjärna för den europeiska unionen, både här hemma i EU men också i våra relationer till omvärlden.
Idag riktar vi oss till Azerbajdzjan som villkorslöst måste frige alla politiska fångar och lägga ner samtliga politiska åtal, samtliga politiskt motiverade åtal. Det finns ingen annan väg framåt om vi ska kunna ha en hållbar, långsiktig relation med Azerbajdzjan. Tack.
Javi López
Thank you very much. With that we are moving to the catch-the-eye. We have five catch-the-eye and we are going to take them all. The first speaker is Mrs. Lexmann for one minute.
Miriam Lexmann
Thank you very much, colleagues. The persecution of Ali Karimli and Anar Mammadli is yet another reminder of the brutal totalitarian nature of Aliyev's regime. Behind facade, it systematically silences political opposition, independent journalists and civil society. Its repression also targets foreign nationalities. We must not forget Ruben Vardanyan and the other Armenians still held hostage in Baku who are subject to sham trials.
That is why the EU must take a principled and considered approach towards Azerbaijan and defend our values over economic gains. I therefore call on the Commission to demand the immediate and unconditional release of all political prisoners, including Armenian hostages, at every meeting with the Azerbaijani representatives and put human rights into the center of our foreign policy. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much. El siguiente orador es el señor López Aguilar por un minuto.
Juan Fernando López Aguilar
Gracias, presidente. Hace un momento hemos hablado de Georgia y ahora de Azerbaiyán, Estado también miembro del Consejo de Europa, en manifiesta contradicción con sus valores fundantes de esta organización con sede en Estrasburgo: Estado de derecho, democracia y derechos humanos. En viejo conflicto con Armenia por sus respectivos enclaves de Nagorno Karabaj y Najicheván, que negociaron y llegaron a un acuerdo fuera de Europa, nada menos que en el despacho oval del presidente Trump. Y, sin embargo, la cúpula de la Comisión, la presidenta von der Leyen, ha saludado al dictador Aliyev, dictador hereditario porque también lo fue su padre desde los tiempos de la Unión Soviética, en búsqueda de aliados estratégicos energéticos en la vecindad de las antiguas repúblicas soviéticas.
Pues bien, es el momento de que la Unión Europea emplee toda su energía y capacidad diplomática para hacer valer los derechos humanos de los prisioneros políticos en Azerbaiyán, pero también de los armenios desplazados de Nagorno Karabaj cuando fue recuperada su soberanía para Azerbaiyán. Gracias, presidente.
Sebastian Tynkkynen
Dear speaker, over 300 political prisoners in Azerbaijan, some sentenced to 13 years in prison. Hate to say it, but it is the EU's business partner that imprisons opposition figures and journalists. What message is the EU putting out by not acting? Does it mean that violations can be bought at a certain price? Can values be ignored when the benefits are big enough?
The EU has been giving Israel moral lectures. For what? For defending itself. Ursula von der Leyen, the President of the European Commission, even wanted to suspend the EU's trade agreement with Israel. But when Azerbaijan imprisons political opponents, the business just continues, nothing to see here.
Europe must speak clearly. Partnership with us cannot include political repression. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Michael McNamara
Thank you very much, Vice-President. This is not the first resolution of the European Parliament concerning Anar Mammadli. That was in December 2024 when this Parliament criticized his detention on bogus charges, and at that point he'd already been in detention since April. He remained in detention until his recent conviction for illegal entrepreneurship and sentence of 13 years. In the meantime, the European Union continued with business as usual.
In the meantime, the High Representative, who claims to cherish human rights, went to Azerbaijan and praised them for being a valuable partner. To say the very least, that is unfortunate. One could say a lot more. His conviction in September arose from the non-registration of his election observation group. That in turn had been criticized by the European Court of Human Rights as politically motivated.
So his recent conviction flies in the face of previous resolutions of this Parliament, previous judgments of the European Court of Human Rights, calls to address that judgment by the Council of Ministers of the Council of Europe. Azerbaijan is simply a rogue state when it comes to human rights, and it is not good enough that the European Parliament treats them as a good partner for any purpose whatsoever. This must be addressed, and in particular political prisoners must be released. Thank you.
And he was convicted previously in connection with that, and that conviction was an aggravating factor.
Thank you, Mr. President, dear people of Europe. First of all, I would like to remind Mr. Tynkkynen about the difference between certain geopolitical situations. Second of all, I have a quite interesting thing in my life. I have an Iranian Azeri appa. And whenever I do a speech about Azerbaijan, he gets afterwards a WhatsApp message, he gets a WhatsApp message or a call from the Azerbaijani ambassador.
And every time the Azerbaijani ambassador complains that I insulted the honor of his country and that I apply double standards for all the other things that happen in the world or inside the European Union. And the funny thing is when I then confront him with what happens, he says he is also in disagreement with his government. So he knows.
Mr. Ambassador, I will not say the name, you know. I think the Azerbaijani government knows. Everyone knows what's happening there. So please, to all Azerbaijanis, don't be insulted by this debate, don't be insulted by what we say, maybe reflect and get yourself acquainted with the reality of the politics of your country. Thank you very much.
Javi López
Thank you very much. And now it's the turn for the European Commission. Mrs. Roswall, Commissioner Roswall, you have the floor.
Jessika Roswall
Thank you, President, honorable members. This debate has once again underlined why continued international attention to human rights situation in Azerbaijan remains necessary. Like this house, we are following with great concern the arrest and continued detention of Ali Karimli, including reports of deterioration in his detention conditions. We are also closely following the case of Anar Mammadli and the 13 years prison sentence recently handed down to him.
These cases come against the backdrop of a wave of detentions and convictions since late 2023, affecting journalists, human rights defenders and other activists expressing their views critical of the authorities. President, honorable members, let me also be clear, we value our relationship with Azerbaijan as a partner and key link between Europe and Asia. Its strategic importance has become even more evident in the current geopolitical circumstances, as war continues to affect traditional energy, transport and transit routes. Azerbaijan plays an important role for the regional stability. We welcome the progress achieved in the peace process between Baku and Yerevan.
The two sides have taken important confidence building steps, notably by the release by Azerbaijan of four Armenians earlier this year. We encourage the parties to address all remaining humanitarian issues as part of their bilateral dialogue. This year has also been marked by constructive steps in the relationship between EU and Azerbaijan. Consolidating this relationship serves as our shared strategic interest and our efforts towards peace.
A closer and more trusted partnership also gives us a greater space to address difficult issues through dialogue and engagement. We will therefore continue to call on the government of Azerbaijan to uphold its international obligation, including with regard to freedom of expression and association, due processes and the right of fair trial. I hear your concerns and I'll be very clear that HRVP Borrell raised individual human right cases during her visit to Baku last May. The EU delegation in Baku equally continues to raise such cases with the Azerbaijani authorities. President, honorable members, I thank this house for continuing to draw attention to those defending fundamental freedoms in Azerbaijan, often under very difficult circumstances.
No one should be prosecuted for exercising their fundamental rights. Our relationship with Azerbaijan is founded on principles which both sides have subscribed, first and foremost, respect for human rights, fundamental freedoms and the rule of law. These principles must remain at the heart of our engagement with Azerbaijan. Thank you.
Javi López
Thank you very much, Commissioner.
Commissioner Roswall, with that the next item on the agenda is the explanation of votes. I don't see Mr. Degras here and then we can close this, well, the debate. Before we had six motions for resolutions of the resolution about Azerbaijan. The next sitting is tomorrow, Thursday 8th of October at 9:00. The agenda has been published and is available on the European Parliament website that you all visit.
The minutes of the sitting will be submitted to Parliament for its approval tomorrow at the beginning of the afternoon and with that the sitting is closed.
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