Senate Economics Legislation Committee (part 2 of 2) — hearing of 5 November 2026: transcript & video · Polyfact

Free trial Learn more

Australia en

Language

Videos

Australia en

Language

Learn more Log in Free trial

Senate Economics Legislation Committee (part 2 of 2)

5 November 2026

Contents updated on 5 Nov 2026

Chair Lisa Darmanin closes questioning of the preceding panel, thanks the witnesses, reminds them of questions taken on notice and the deadline for responses, and suspends the committee until shortly after 3:00 p.m.

Layout

Layout Balanced Video, transcript and chat in equal parts Video Larger player Reading Wider transcript

Legend

Transcript markers

text Sentence being played
text Search result
text Intervention cited by the link you opened

Click a sentence to play the video from that moment. Select text to quote it with the speaker, timestamp and link.

More options

Official source

Offset

Transcript offset

0s

Text size

Export

Select segments to export (Word)

0 segments selected

Mark Zirnsak — Tax Justice Network Australia

17:00

Opening statements

17:00

Chair — opening of session with Mark Zirnsak

17:00

Dr Mark Zirnsak — opening statement

17:45

ATO powers and design of discretionary trust minimum tax

20:12

Question of Senator Nick McKim on ATO catch-all powers for discretionary trusts

20:12

Question of Senator Nick McKim on charity distributions and comparative tax benefits

22:03

Question of Senator Nick McKim on transparency and regulation of charities and cults

23:23

Question of Senator Nick McKim on testamentary trusts and potential tax-planning loopholes

26:10

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on Tax Justice Network Australia membership base

27:11

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on membership criteria and engagement with business views

27:54

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on how member views on the bill are formed

29:16

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on impacts of reforms on philanthropy

30:18

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on small business use of trusts and cost-of-living pressures

31:08

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on vulnerable people and rigidity of exemptions

33:35

Question of Senator Kerrynne Liddle on vulnerable beneficiaries, primary producers and compliance costs

36:24

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on sustainability of the tax system and revenue fairness

43:16

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on reforms correcting disproportionate benefits of trusts

45:07

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on shifting more tax burden to prior beneficiaries of trusts

46:00

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on corporate beneficiaries and bucket companies

47:13

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on the election regime and integrity safeguards

48:41

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on PAYG comparison and DGR/charity carve‑outs

51:23

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on whether delaying the bill entrenches inequity for non‑DGR charities

52:34

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on charity transparency and income tax exemption rules

54:39

Conclusion of evidence from Dr Mark Zirnsak

56:04

Justice Connect and Philanthropy Australia — minimum tax on discretionary trusts and charitable giving

56:39

Opening statements

56:39

Acting Chair Lisa Darmanin — introduction of Justice Connect and Philanthropy Australia witnesses

56:39

Opening statement of Geraldine Menere (Justice Connect)

57:39

Opening statement of Krystian Seibert (Philanthropy Australia)

01:01:35

Discretionary trust minimum tax, DGR inequity and government response to Productivity Commission

01:05:28

Transition to questioning and technical issues with remote participation

01:05:28

Questions of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Krystian Seibert on Productivity Commission response, trust tax reforms and impact on giving

01:06:41

Chair Lisa Darmanin — issue of AI notetaker and recording approval

01:19:48

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Geraldine Menere on DGR reform complexity and inequity for small charities

01:20:49

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Geraldine Menere on government commitments to DGR reform

01:22:14

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Krystian Seibert on government undertakings for DGR reform

01:22:38

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Krystian Seibert on likely impact of the bill on giving

01:23:24

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Krystian Seibert on how to measure impacts on giving

01:24:02

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) to Krystian Seibert on risk that reforms will harm giving

01:24:33

Challenge from Senator (Intervenant 36) to Krystian Seibert on uncertainty and trust in government

01:25:44

Question of Senator Nick McKim to Krystian Seibert on motivations for philanthropy versus tax incentives

01:27:10

Chair’s invitation to Geraldine Menere on philanthropist motivations

01:28:33

Question of Senator Nick McKim to Geraldine Menere on unequal tax treatment of non-DGR donations

01:28:59

Question of Senator (Intervenant 45) to Krystian Seibert on opposing the broad trust exemption

01:30:54

Clarification by Senator Nick McKim and response from Krystian Seibert on nature of the unfairness

01:31:33

Question of Senator Nick McKim on basic religious charities, coercive groups and trust donations

01:33:23

Question of Senator (Intervenant 47) on the policy rationale for the basic religious charities exemption

01:39:03

Question of Senator Nick McKim on donations from trusts to private schools and minimum tax

01:39:56

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on Philanthropy Australia’s stance on the bill versus the exemption

01:41:43

Question of Senator Lisa Darmanin on removing the exemption and impacts on charity funding

01:44:14

Comment of Senator Lisa Darmanin on overall fairness for PAYG taxpayers and response

01:46:55

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) on the proposed cap for distributions to self-assessing entities

01:47:56

Question of Senator (Intervenant 36) on the nature, rationale and risks of the ministerial cap power

01:50:05

Question of Senator (chair, Intervenant inconnu) on joint letter to the Treasurer calling for DGR reform

01:53:46

Live capture

Versions of this video

Replay Final version · 5 November 2026
Live capture Streamed live on 5 November 2026

Current

Transcripts may differ slightly from one version to another.

Senate Economics Legislation Committee (part 2 of 2)

5 November 2026

Senate Economics Legislation Committee Thu, 5 Nov 2026 Parliament of Australia

Follow its sittings

00:00 - 00:03

Speaker 1

material missive at any stage.

00:03 - 17:23

Speaker 2

Thank you. That's a useful clarification. That concludes our questions with this panel. Thank you all very much for your time today and for participating in the process. If you took any questions on notice, if you could please provide them by Monday, the 9th of November 2026.

And the committee will now suspend for a short break, and we will come back at 5 minutes past 3:00. Thank you.

I now like to welcome Mr. Mark Zirnsak from the Tax Justice Network. I understand that parliament information on parliamentary privilege and information and the protection of witnesses giving evidence to Senate committees has been provided to you. For the Hansard record, will each of you please state your full name and the capacity in which you appear today?

The rest of the transcript is for Pro customers

Unlock the full transcript, chat, and every analysis feature with Polyfact Pro.

The video itself stays free to watch, in full, no account needed.

Start a free trial

Parliament of Australia

Read the full session, transcribed live

One free trial opens the sessions transcribed word for word, with AI summaries and chat, the biographies of your parliament's members, alerts, and your questions to Claude or ChatGPT.

Live transcript, every speaker identified
The biography of every member of your parliament, with its assistant
Alerts on your keywords, and your questions to Claude or ChatGPT

Every video is free to watch, live and on replay, no account needed.

14-day free trial · cancel anytime

Free trial Learn more

Already have an account? Log in

Ask anything about this video — I analyse its transcript to answer.

Parliament of Australia

Read the full session, transcribed live

One free trial opens the sessions transcribed word for word, with AI summaries and chat, the biographies of your parliament's members, alerts, and your questions to Claude or ChatGPT.

Live transcript, every speaker identified
The biography of every member of your parliament, with its assistant
Alerts on your keywords, and your questions to Claude or ChatGPT

Every video is free to watch, live and on replay, no account needed.

14-day free trial · cancel anytime

Free trial Learn more

Already have an account? Log in

Keyboard shortcuts

Playback

Play / pause: Space
Back / forward 15 s: ←→
Back / forward 10 s: JL
Full screen: F

Chapters and transcript

Previous / next chapter: PN
Search the transcript: /
Turn follow on / off: S
Copy the current sentence as a quote: C
Show this help: ?

Single-key shortcuts J, L, N, P, C, S, / and ?. Turn them off if you use voice control or assistive tech that types letters.

Inactive while a text field, a button or the chat has focus.