Senate Economics Legislation Committee — hearing of 6 November 2026: transcript & video · Polyfact

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Senate Economics Legislation Committee

5 November 2026

Contents updated on 6 Nov 2026

Overall proceedings of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee hearing into the two tax reform bills.

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Inquiry into the Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 3) Bill 2026 and Income Tax Rates Amendment (Minimum Tax on Discretionary Trusts) Bill 2026

10:18

Opening of hearing and procedural statements

10:18

Chair (Lisa Darmanin) — Opening of hearing and procedural remarks

10:18

Opening statements

13:18

James Covell (ASFA) — Opening statement

13:18

Consultation process and Treasury engagement

15:49

Questions from Senator Liddle on consultation and Treasury engagement

15:49

Follow‑up on timing and breadth of consultation

17:53

Impact of changes to trust arrangements and CGT on superannuation

19:30

Questions from Senator Liddle on trust changes and protection of super investments

19:30

Senator Liddle on practical impact of superannuation carve‑out in trust reforms

21:47

Senator Liddle on fairness of excluding complying super funds from minimum tax

23:27

Senator Liddle on lower super tax rates versus individuals

25:04

Senator Liddle on small family businesses relying on business value for retirement

27:12

Senator Liddle on business owners becoming employees to access super and modelling of impacts

32:55

Senator Liddle and Mr Covell on LRBA ban, housing impacts and SMSF property investment

35:22

Superannuation tax concessions and adequacy of retirement incomes

48:39

Questions from Senator Tyrrell on superannuation tax concessions and Payday Super transition

48:39

Australian Council of Social Service (ACOSS) — Evidence

01:01:53

Formal introduction and swearing‑in of ACOSS representatives

01:01:53

Opening statements — ACOSS

01:02:47

Dr Cassandra Goldie (ACOSS) — Opening statement on fairness and inequality

01:02:47

Peter Davidson (ACOSS) — Opening statement on trust tax reform and further integrity measures

01:06:06

Equity of minimum 30% trust tax and impacts on small businesses and beneficiaries

01:12:43

Question from Senator Liddle on struggling small businesses facing higher taxes under trust reforms

01:12:43

Question from Senator Liddle on alleged regressivity and impact on lower‑income trust beneficiaries

01:16:43

Question from Senator Liddle on pensioners receiving trust distributions versus employee pensioners

01:19:18

Question from Senator Liddle on flat 30% rate applying to lower incomes through trusts

01:20:30

Question from Senator Liddle on hardship scenarios, implementation timing and regressivity of the 30% trust tax

01:21:31

Integrity and anti‑avoidance issues in trust and charity taxation

01:29:11

Question from Senator McKim on discretionary trust donations to non‑DGR charities and DGR reform

01:29:11

Question from Senator McKim on specific anti‑avoidance powers for trusts

01:33:47

Question from Senator McKim on survival of bucket companies under the elective regime

01:35:50

Question from Senator McKim on online promotion of tax avoidance strategies and remaining loopholes

01:37:15

Question from Senator Darmanin on DGR loophole and support for passing the bill

01:42:48

Inquiry into the Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 3) Bill 2026 and Income Tax Rates Amendment (Minimum Tax on Discretionary Trusts) Bill 2026 (cont.)

01:45:52

Saul Eslake — Evidence

02:00:27

Opening statements — Saul Eslake

02:00:27

Saul Eslake — opening remarks on trust taxation and personal use of a discretionary trust

02:00:27

Equity and economic impacts of minimum tax on discretionary trusts — questions to Saul Eslake

02:03:33

Question from Senator McDonald on equity of the 30% rate and treatment of small business trusts

02:03:33

Question from Senator McDonald on compliance costs and productivity impacts

02:09:34

Questions from Senator McDonald on non-refundable withholding tax, construction sector impacts, small business carve-outs and farm income definitions

02:11:55

Question from Senator McKim on restructuring costs versus reduced need for trust structures

02:25:46

Question from Senator McKim on donations to non-DGR charities via trusts versus wages

02:28:42

Questions from Senator McKim on testamentary trusts and schedular dual tax systems

02:30:33

Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry and Family Business Association — Evidence

02:38:05

Opening statements — ACCI and Family Business Association

02:38:05

Andrew McKellar (Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry) — opening statement

02:38:05

Catherine Sayer (Family Business Association) — opening statement

02:45:19

Impacts of trust minimum tax on family businesses, consultation and intergenerational equity

02:49:10

Questions from Senator Hume on productivity impacts, consultation and lack of prior notice to business groups

02:49:10

Questions from Senator Hume on intergenerational equity, succession and family disputes

02:57:53

Questions from Senator Hume on feasibility and cost of restructuring and case for delay

03:01:03

Question from Senator Hume on whether the trust tax meets classic tax reform tests

03:09:44

Questions from Senator Bragg on number of affected small businesses

03:10:15

Questions from Senator Bragg on CGT carve‑outs and limitations of small‑business relief

03:12:09

Questions from Senator Bragg on excluded election trusts, small‑business tax arbitrage and economic impacts

03:14:03

Questions from Senator Darmanin on scale of affected small businesses, trust purposes and election regime

03:31:14

Academic tax law experts — Evidence

04:39:28

Opening statements — academic tax law experts

04:39:28

Chair — introduction of academic witnesses and resolution of technical issues

04:39:28

Associate Professor Kathryn James — opening statement supporting 30% minimum tax on trusts

04:42:04

Dr Sonali Walpola — opening statement on equity case for trust tax reform

04:48:18

Professor Dale Boccabella — opening statement on fairness and abuse of discretionary trusts

04:55:09

Design of minimum tax, corporate beneficiaries and transitional arrangements

05:03:47

Question from Senator Tyrrell on exclusion of corporate beneficiaries from the minimum tax offset

05:03:47

Question from Senator Tyrrell on transitional options and fairness of being captured by the minimum tax

05:06:30

Questions from Senator Liddle on small business impacts, timing and compliance costs

05:11:17

Question from Senator Liddle on non‑refundable withholding and potential double taxation

05:19:15

Questions from Senator Liddle on consultation, small business use of trusts and fairness of the minimum tax

05:22:10

Questions from Senator Liddle on mandate, surprise nature of reforms and primary production carve‑outs

05:29:28

Questions from Senator McKim on tax advantages for trust donations to non‑DGR charities

05:33:09

Questions from Senator McKim to Professor Kathryn James on productivity benefits of discretionary trusts and donations to non‑DGR charities

05:39:32

Questions from Senator McKim to Dr Walpola and Professor James on data and transparency for testamentary and other trusts

05:44:31

Questions from Senator McKim to Professor Boccabella on including testamentary trusts in the minimum tax

05:51:00

Questions from Senator McKim to Professors Boccabella and James on how far the reforms curb trust‑based tax minimisation

05:53:21

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Senate Economics Legislation Committee

5 November 2026

Senate Economics Legislation Committee Fri, 6 Nov 2026 Parliament of Australia

Follow its sittings

10:18 - 12:08

Speaker 1

Yep. Okay, let's go. I declare open this hearing of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee for the inquiry into the Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 3) Bill 2026 and the Income Tax Rates Amendment (Minimum Tax on Discretionary Trusts) Bill 2026.

I begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which we meet, and pay my respect to their elders, past and present. And I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples joining us today. The committee will be conducting today's hearing by video conference and in person. We currently have the deputy chair, Senator Bragg online along with myself, and Senator Tyrrell. These are public proceedings being video streamed live via the Parliament's website, and a Hansard transcript is being made.

I remind all witnesses that in giving evidence to the committee they are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to a committee, and such action may be treated by the Senate as a contempt. It is also a contempt to give false or misleading evidence.

Witnesses also have a right to request to be heard in camera. The Senate has resolved that an officer of a department of the Commonwealth or of a state shall not be asked to give opinions on matters of policy and shall be given reasonable opportunity to refer questions asked of the officer to superior officers or to a minister. This resolution does not preclude questions asking for explanations of policies or factual questions about when and how policies were adopted. If a witness objects to answering a question, they should state the ground upon which the objection is made and the committee will determine whether it will insist on an answer, having regard to the ground which is claimed. If the committee determines to insist on an answer, a witness may request that the answer be given in camera.

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