Committee on Women’s Rights and Gender Equality Ordinary meeting HEARING
Legend
Transcript markers
- text Sentence being played
- text Search result
- text Intervention cited by the link you opened
Click a sentence to play the video from that moment. Select text to quote it with the speaker, timestamp and link.
More options
Offset
Transcript offset
Export
Replay
Versions of this video
Transcripts may differ slightly from one version to another.
FEMM European Parliament
Follow its sittingsMetra Mehran
No, it's fine. It's fine. I was saying that to be honest, this morning I faced a difficult dilemma whether I should come and speak here at all. Like millions of women in Afghanistan and women across the world where we have been protesting for the past weeks against European Parliament decision to invite Taliban members to EU. I am in a state of shock and betrayal how EU said no to constant resistance and protest against this decision.
We all know the nature of the Taliban regime. It is a regime of gender apartheid and gender persecution that has systematically erased women and girls from public life and have stripped them of every right. And European Parliament have rightly condemned these abuses through resolutions and statements. Yet Taliban representatives continue to be invited to European institutions and it raises a difficult, to be honest, but necessary question of at what point does engagement risk becoming complicity?
And I and I want to ask and raise this question to everyone in this room of what is the measurement and if if the it's not the EU is not speaking to the Taliban. EU is in Afghanistan, EU has and European countries has its members in the technical groups of Doha format that continuously and regularly engage with the Taliban. So what is the need for them to come to EU and do you know how much they use this for their propaganda for empowering themselves? So I want to ask this question again and that is at what point does engagement in this series of engagement risk becoming complicity, especially EU's in this level of gender persecution that Taliban or in gender apartheid the Taliban are perpetrating inside Afghanistan. Because when perpetrators of gender apartheid are repeatedly given platforms at cost of voices of women of Afghanistan and people of Afghanistan while they struggle to be heard, for me the issue is no longer only one of diplomacy.
It becomes an issue of moral and legal obligation and responsibility of EU and its members. So I stand here today again with that simple question and now I will briefly speak about why we call and should call and recognize the situation of women of Afghanistan as of gender apartheid. To be honest, I want to start by asking people in the room or asking you guys to imagine what you did this morning. I'm sure you woke up, you got your coffee, you choose to what dress you want to wear, you even maybe didn't think that you need to take the train or, you know, walk to the EU Parliament because you do it, it's normal, it's every day. Maybe you shaked with a colleague of yours, he saw your face, you talked, you are talking, you heard each other's voices, very simple everyday things that you did today.
A girl and a woman in Afghanistan cannot do it. It's criminalized and it's a crime. Those simple things of freedom of movement, going to work, having the right to speak, because we are so entitled to these things and we should as human beings, but those are banned, controlled by Taliban in Afghanistan and those in women of Afghanistan are stripped of those basic things, things that we maybe don't think that I'm walking to office, you know, it's a it's a right that Taliban can control. So everything to put it in perspective, I wanted to tell you that everything you did today and I did today is banned and criminalized for women in Afghanistan, even their voices and faces. And that's what we call gender apartheid and women of Afghanistan since 1996 first era of Taliban have been calling for its recognition and codification.
It's an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination. And why we say systematic and institutionalized? We document the Taliban's decrees in legal systems through Afghanistan Justice Archive. They have issued more than 230 decrees so far that directly targets women and girls, including the PVPV law and their penal code that formalizes and legalizes the oppression against women and girls.
And those laws, especially the penal code of the Taliban, and I quote an absurd article that says if a husband beat the wife, as long as the bone is not broken and the skin bruise is not open to bleed, it's not a crime. And it officially authorize men as owner of the woman. And then we had the separation and divorce law that came last month, and it's legalize child marriage. So everything we see in Afghanistan, and it's not of a culture or religion, but it's a laws and legal policies of the Taliban being enforced across. And the other thing that we why we call it gender apartheid, in addition to the systematic and institutionalized nature of the the oppression and the totalizing oppression of Taliban inside Afghanistan, is the intent.
And by that we we are studying and seeing how implementation and perpetration of gender apartheid regime in Afghanistan is both pragmatically and ideologically existential for the Taliban. Even if schools are ban for women and girls, but those that are open for men, the curriculum is changed to brainwash boys and men. And we see how they are socially engineering the society in a way that be receptive of the Taliban regime, but also ensure its sustainability. So the Mohtasibin, the Ministry of Vice and Virtue morality police, yes, they control women outside their houses. But we also see how legally men are pulled into enforcing those laws and decrees inside the house.
By that I mean if it says if a woman is not dressed based on Taliban's favor, yes, she will be subject to punishment, but also the man of the family, if it's the brother, the father, is also subject to punishment. So we see how they bring men into into enforcement of these policies too. So there is nowhere that women can find peace and safety in Afghanistan, neither inside the house nor outside. So we see how everything in this totalizing system of oppression is forming a fully integrated and overarching framework that is necessary for the Taliban's sustainability. And that's why we say both the nature of it, which is systematic and institutionalized nature of the Taliban oppression, the animating context, and also the intention they're pursuing through this in Afghanistan form a regime of apartheid, and that should be recognized as it is.
And I want to, because I have seven minutes and I can address questions...
Metra Mehran
Yes, yes. I want to say that we I'm sure everyone in the room and we all know the totalizing level of oppression in Afghanistan. Everything from gender apartheid to gender persecution to slavery to child marriage to forced marriage to caste system, everything is legalized and formalized in Afghanistan by the Taliban. The laws that we as a global community get together to criminalize it. So when history and history has shown us that when injustice reaches this level in front of the law and governance system, we should act as a global community.
And that's what I expect EU to do that too. Thank you.
Lina Gálvez
So thank you, but I would like to clarify something because I think it is, it is important. When I was saying before that it is very timely, this hearing, because indeed, there is a Taliban delegation visiting the European Union. It is not an invitation from the European Parliament. I would like to be very clear about that. Otherwise, it will be too hypocritical because we have a lot of contradictions among ourselves, that is for sure, but it will be probably too much.
So it is not, it is an invitation, but it's not even the Commission. It is the Commission, but following the initiative of 20 member states. They, they hold already a meeting at the beginning of this year in, in Kabul. So this is following, and this meeting, it is a follow-up or a specific initiative, a specific question or initiative taken in a letter, especially led by Belgium and Germany, and signed also by other countries as Austria, Italy, Netherlands and Poland, asking the Commission to start this technical meetings with the Taliban regarding irregular migration. So just to make very clear that the European Parliament has not been involved.
Obviously, we have voted several things regarding migration, but this is how democracy works. And unfortunately for me, my case, that I did not, but this is how it works. But this is something I do as myself, not as a chair. I don't want to be misunderstood. But in any case, I wanted to make sure that there is no misunderstanding and the Parliament, the European Parliament has not invited any Taliban mission or delegation to Brussels.
Quite the opposite, we are holding this hearing. So sorry, because I wanted to make clear that there is no the European Parliament involvement in, in that. And now, I would like to give the floor to Ms. Shukria Barakzai, founder and president of the Afghan Women's Coalition for Justice. She's an Afghan stateswoman, former parliamentarian and diplomat, and served as a member of the Wolesi Jirga from 2005 to 2015, and as Afghanistan's ambassador to Norway from 2016 to 2019. And her contribution, we will hear her, will focus on the current situation of Afghan women.
So thank you very much. So thank you very much also for that present that we will really treasure. And the floor is yours for seven minutes. Thank you.
Shukria Barakzai
Thank you so much. Madam Chair, honorable member of the European Parliament, distinguished guest. Thank you for this opportunity. Today we are not discussing the rights of women in one country alone. We are discussing a global challenge, the systematic oppression of women and girls simply because they are women.
Across the world, women continue to pay the highest price of war, extremism, dictatorship, discrimination and conflict.
We see the suffering of women in Afghanistan under Taliban rule. We see Iranian and Kurdish women confronting discrimination laws and state repression. We see Palestinian women enduring the human... It's not really easy to represent because at the meantime I'm also having the privilege to be the vice president of World Liberty Congress where more than 60 country dissidents, freedom fighters come together and build that congress. And I have to be their voice too.
We see Ukrainian women carrying the burden of conflict, displacement, family separation, violence, and the result from war. We see women and girl in a part of Africa facing conflict, forced marriages, sexual violence, trafficking, exclusion from education and public life. While the women are denied equality, dignity, opportunity, security, and freedom. Gender oppression is not an accident. It is a system.
And when that system is designed to exclude women from education, employment, political participation, public life, and fundamental freedom, we must have courage to call this as a true name. And the name is gender apartheid. Today Iranian women continue to challenge the discriminatory laws, compulsory restrictions imposing on them. Kurdish women have to pay particularly highest price in their struggle for dignity, equality, and freedom. We remember the Jina Mahsa Amini, a young woman whose death become a global symbol of resistance against gender oppression.
We remember many more women and girls who have lost their lives, been imposed and displaced and silenced simply because they are women. Their rights was been denied. But their struggle is not confined borders. It is universal struggle for justice and human dignity. Whether Kabul, Tehran, Gaza, Kyiv, Khartoum, or elsewhere, women must never become the first victim of conflict, extremism, discrimination, or political oppression.
I would like to present, as I did, the documents to European Parliament. They contain the Taliban own laws, decrees, regulations targeting women and girls, and I hope this document widely shared and presented as a part of historical record on the most systematic attack on women's rights in the modern history. But today I also like to ask a question. It's a difficult question. I'm asking you, all respected member of European Parliament.
This is not my first time. I had this stage since 2002. My last visit was 2014, 2024 when I was here in European Parliament, September, when we discussed the gender apartheid and when the Parliament, when this Parliament adopt an important resolution in supporting Afghan women and accountability. Almost two years later, what has changed? What concrete action have been followed those resolutions?
What progress has been made towards recognizing gender apartheid under international law? And why are some government, international actor, still normalizing their relation with the regimes and systematically where they systematically violating the rights of human and rights of women? Why are dictator and extremist and the Taliban still being treated as a legitimate partner while millions of women remain deprived of their most basic right? Too often religion, culture, tradition are being weaponized to justify discrimination, exclusion and oppression. Human rights are universal.
Women's rights are universal. No government should allowed to hide behind culture or religion or deny women and their humanity. Today I respectfully ask European Parliament and European Union and its member state to move beyond statement and expressing of concern. The words are important, but the words alone are no longer enough. We need measurable action, we need accountability.
We need consequence of those responsible for gender oppression. We need protection for women human rights defender and political prisoner. And we need a clear commitment that Europe will not normalize relation with regime that institutionalize gender discrimination against women. The history will not judge us by resolution we adopt. The history will judge us by action we take.
I thank you, Madam Chair.
Lina Gálvez
Thank you indeed and so why we keep pushing with this hearing and because yes, what we I insist was a movement from from member states, we are co-legislators but it is not the European Parliament so just to insist once more that we are so far on your side. So so far and I hope for long time. So now I would like to to give the the floor to Ms. Regina Victoria Doabi who is here with us. Thank you very much, head of international relations HIWA. Ms. Doabi is international political analyst specializing in Iran and Kurdistan and will focus on the current situation of Kurdish women.
So thank you, thank you very much for being here with us and you have the floor for seven minutes too.
Regina Victoria Doabi
Thank you for having me. Chair, member of the European Parliament and the committee. Thank you for having me. Today I would like to talk about Kurdish woman because a Kurdish woman is never just a woman.
She carries many identities at once. First she's a woman, then she's Kurdish. And she belongs to a people whose language has been banned, whose identity has been denied and whose existence has been criminalized. Kurdish woman are targeted not only because they are woman, but because they stand at the intersection of gender apartheid, ethnic and national discrimination and political oppression. Just like Zhina Modares Gorji from Sna and Mahsa Zaraei from Kermanshah, who both are right now under massive pressure not only because they are woman, but because they insist on their Kurdish identity.
In Rojhelat, Eastern Kurdistan in Iran, discrimination and erasure of the Kurdish woman start at the birth for girls, where mothers struggle simply to register their children's names. Kurdish girls grow up without the right to be educated in their own mother tongue. As they grow older, barriers to higher education, employment and participation in the society becomes increasingly entrenched. Generation after generation, discrimination and oppression are institutionalized through the policies of Islamic Republic of Iran, and girls and woman learn to roleplay an identity imposed by the state. The same discriminatory system also enables child marriages, forced marriages and femicide in Iran and Kurdistan.
These are not isolated tragedies, but the consequences of laws, institutions and patriarchal structure that have been entrenched for over a hundred years, where violence against woman is enabled through systemic discrimination and impunity. Woman human rights defenders are arrested, tortured and sentenced to death simply because they refuse to accept this brutality. Today, woman such as the political prisoners Pakhshan Azizi, Warisha Moradi and Zeynab Jalalian have become the symbols of resistance against that oppression. Pakhshan Azizi dedicated herself to humanitarian work supporting woman and children displaced by ISIS in Rojava. Today she faces death penalty in an Iranian prison.
Warisha Moradi and Zeynab Jalalian believe that Kurdish woman should participate equally in shaping society. Today they both are in prison for that belief. Their stories reveal an important truth. Authoritarian regimes do not fear Kurdish woman only because they are woman. They fear Kurdish woman because they organize, because they educate, because they lead, because they prove that another political future is possible.
But this is half of the story. If we speak about Kurdish woman only as victims, then we fundamentally misunderstand who they are.
During Jin Jiyan Azadi, the Kurdish slogan Woman Life Freedom movement, I spoke with a Kurdish woman, a leader, who had just been temporarily released from the prison in Iran. She told me how painful it was to watch world leaders celebrate courage of Iranian women while excluding women from ethnic and national minority communities from conversations about Iran's future, about their future. And her words have stayed with me. Kurdish women have too often expected to sacrifice for freedom, democracy, while being excluded from shaping it. But the ground reality is that Kurdish women are the key actors in making liberation, freedom and democracy, not only in Kurdistan, in Iran, Syria and Turkey and Iraq, but an inspiration to all women of Middle East.
It's also therefore no coincidence that the Kurdish slogan Jin Jiyan Azadi, Woman Life Freedom, was born in Kurdistan, emerged from generations of Kurdish women's resistance from a simply yet profound understanding. There can be no democracy without women's liberation. There can be no lasting peace or security without women's equal participation. And today Kurdish women in Rojava continue to defend that idea. They are not only protecting themselves against military threats, they are protecting democratic institution built on equal representation, co-leadership, and they remind us that peace negotiations cannot be legitimate if women are excluded and that democracy cannot exist if half of society is denied a seat at the decision-making table.
For centuries, Jews, Christians, Yazidis, Muslims and others have lived side by side with the Kurdish community. Diversity is not nothing something we fear, it's something that we practice for generations. This is why Kurdish women's struggle has inspired far beyond Kurdistan, across borders, religions, across nationalities and ethnicities. Because Kurdish women have shown that women's right are not separate from freedom and peace and security. In fact, they have shown us that women are key to exactly these.
This is why this struggle also matters to Europe. If European Union truly believes in gender equality, if it truly believes in democracy, if it's truly committed to confronting gender apartheid wherever it exists, then Kurdish women cannot remain an afterthought. Because Kurdish women has shown the world what courage looks like. They have fought and defended for freedom while living under multiple dictatorships. They have fought and defended equality while confronting the exact gender apartheid.
They have defended democracy while being denied their own fundamental right. They have defeated ISIS and defended all of us. The question today is therefore not whether the Kurdish women will continue their struggle, they will. And the committee and the European Parliament have an important opportunity to stand with them in concrete actions. Therefore I urge the committee and the European Parliament to take the following step.
First, publicly demand for the immediate release of all political prisoners including all Kurdish women such as Zeynab Jalalian, Pakhshan Azizi and Warisha Moradi.
Recognize the systemic targeting of Kurdish women and other minorities in Iran and Syria, including intensified repression in Iran following the recent war and the ongoing attacks on the democratic gains and political participation of women in Rojava as part of as part of this intersection of gender apartheid, ethnic and national discrimination, and political repression. Ensure that Kurdish women are included in EU discussions on Iran's and Syria's future, not just symbolic participants, but as equal political and civil society actors. Increase the diplomatic pressure on Islamic Republic to end the use of death penalty against anyone, but especially women activists, political prisoners, and members of oppressed ethnic, religious, and national communities. Strengthen support for and include Kurdish women-led civil societies, organizations, documentation initiatives, education, and human rights advocacy, both from Kurdistan and in exile. Solidarity is important, but it's not enough.
Rights must be defended, voices must be heard, and Kurdish women must have a seat at the table. Thank you very much.
Lina Gálvez
Thank you, thank you very much and thank you for bringing this link that we we think is essential of democracy and and women's rights and feminism and how it is probably the there is no democracy without that and thank you the three of you for pushing us to go beyond words but is what we are doing trying also to push the the authorities and we will keep doing and now it is the moment for the political groups, coordinators or people acting as such for two minutes and a half. So I will start by EPP, Mrs. Nerudová, she's also for the Iran delegation, so you have the floor for two minutes and a half.
Danuše Nerudová
Thank you. Madam Chair, dear Iranian and Kurdish women. Today as we debate gender apartheid, the European Commission is sitting down with Taliban here in Brussels with red carpet. A regime that bans girls from school, that just legalized marriage for nine years olds. A regime that UN itself calls as gender apartheid state.
We do not negotiate with those who use women's bodies as a bargaining chip, not with the Taliban, not with the Tehran, not with anyone. The women of Iran have paid with their lives to be seen. Kurdish women face violence and erasure and look to us for solidarity. We cannot champion gender apartheid as a legal category in one room while legitimizing a gender apartheid regime in another. Me as the member of this house, I call on the Commission, condition all further engagement with the Taliban, with Iran, on concrete progress on women's rights, no exception.
Lina Gálvez
Thank you very much and and now from S&D, Cecilia Strada, the floor is yours for two minutes and a half.
Cecilia Strada
Thank you, Madam Chair, I will speak in Italian if I may, if you want to put your headphones. Thank you very much, tashakor. I before joining the Parliament I had the opportunity of oh, okay.
Ah, sorry. Sorry. Because this Taliban thing is really driving me crazy and so sorry about that but I was thinking in Italian now. Quindi... Tashakkur.
Sì, prima di... Prima di entrare in Parlamento io ho avuto la possibilità, il privilegio di lavorare per moltissimi anni per un'organizzazione italiana in Afghanistan. Quindi ho avuto il privilegio di lavorare con le donne afghane, per le donne afghane. E oggi io penso che la Commissione europea sia abbia sia toccando davvero uno dei livelli più bassi che potevano raggiungere. Perché non solo incontrano i talebani, ma incontrano i talebani per parlare di rimpatri.
Quindi stanno andando dai talebani con delle richieste per i talebani. E i talebani chiederanno il conto. Quale che cosa chiederanno in cambio i talebani? Per cui quando la Commissione prova a dire: "Ma potremmo parlare anche di diritti umani", non è vero. Perché stanno mettendo il coltello nelle mani dei talebani dalla parte del manico perché è la Commissione che chiede delle cose ai talebani.
E i talebani chiederanno qualche cosa in cambio. Cosa sarà? Soldi, legittimità politica? La legittimità politica già la stanno dando ai talebani ricevendoli qui. E allora io davvero penso che sia scioccante.
Penso che il Parlamento debba continuare evidentemente a fare quello che stiamo facendo. Le deputate in questa stanza si battono molto su questo, ma dobbiamo sicuramente anche provare a fare di più. Quindi sicuramente mi permetto di parlare per tutto il gruppo S&D, siamo a disposizione per qualunque raccomandazione per fare delle cose insieme per opporci a questa cosa. E chiudo dicendo grazie anche per a tutte le relatrici che ci hanno ricordato che non dobbiamo parlare delle donne soltanto come di vittime. Il fatto è che i talebani e tutti gli altri regimi hanno paura del potere delle donne, hanno paura delle donne, hanno paura delle bambine che leggono, hanno paura delle donne che studiano, hanno paura delle donne che lavorano, hanno paura che possano diventare la futura classe dirigente.
Hanno paura di questo potere. E allora nostro dovere aiutare a far crescere questo potere. Siamo a vostra disposizione e grazie.
Margarita de la Pisa Carrión
Muchas gracias, presidente. Gracias a nuestras invitadas de hoy. Su mensaje siempre ha sido claro. Hoy también. La Unión Europea debe denunciar sin ambigüedades al régimen de los ayatolás y evitar cualquier actuación que contribuya a legitimarlo.
Ni el más mínimo contacto. La solidaridad debe traducirse en hechos. No podemos transmitiros apoyo y a la vez mostrar tibieza como ocurre como ocurre con lo mencionado hoy con las conversaciones con los talibanes. En este sentido, me gustaría saber cómo valoran aquellos estados como Estados Unidos que han tenido la determinación de tomar una posición más firme frente al régimen iraní, que incluso ha podido debilitarlo, ¿no? ¿Cómo lo valoran?
¿Ha sido efectivo? ¿Ha sido efectivo? Tras las protestas, la policía de los ayatolás acabó con la vida de gran número de jóvenes. No conocemos las cifras, ¿no? Pero sí que es verdad que puede puede haber menoscabado a tal punto la resistencia que incluso aunque el régimen esté debilitado sea difícil sobreponerse.
Quería sacar este tema y muchas gracias.
Lina Gálvez
Gracias. I don't see anyone from ECR. From Renew, Raquel García Hermida-Van der Walle, the floor is yours for two minutes and a half.
Raquel García Hermida-Van Der Walle
Thank you, Chair.
I would like to start with an apology. Mrs. Meron, Mrs. Barakzai, and Mrs. Dwari, I am sorry. I am sorry on behalf of 450 million Europeans. I am sorry that this European Parliament has not succeeded in stopping this madness of this meeting of the Taliban in Brussels, in the center of our political and diplomatic power as European Union. I am sorry.
We really, really have done our best. And I could keep repeating myself here eternally, but I think that I would like to use this podium to give a voice to those women and girls in Afghanistan who don't have the chance to speak up because their voice has been stolen from them. So I will read up a few messages. An Afghan woman wrote to me yesterday after I shared a video supporting women in Afghanistan. The Taliban tracked down my location and left a threatening comment naming the country I currently live in.
When European democracy engages with them, it grants them a sense of international legitimacy. The more they find acceptance on the global stage, the more emboldened they become and the harsher the oppression for my sisters back in Afghanistan. A young Afghan girl asked us directly: can any Member of Parliament imagine telling their daughters that after sixth grade there is no school for them? Will you feel safe in a country where child marriage is allowed by law and silence to the question, do you want to marry him, means yes? And she ended with these words: whoever negotiates with terrorists says something about themselves to the world.
They show their real face. Finally, and I want to be very specific here because this is a community too often forgotten, one message urged us to speak up specifically for Hazara women who face compounded persecution. An Hazara woman wrote: Hazara women are literally at risk of a pogrom. We have been abandoned by every single ally. The European Union must continue to serve the interests of these women, give these women the platform they deserve instead of talking to their Taliban oppressors.
Because we Europeans cannot expect anyone to take us seriously when talking about human rights and about gender apartheid while inviting the Taliban to drink tea with the European Commission here in Brussels. So again, sorry and thank you for speaking clearly to us.
Mélissa Camara
I will speak in French. Je voudrais commencer également par dire que je suis absolument désolée, que j'ai très honte aujourd'hui de l'Union européenne. Il y a cette rencontre parce qu'il y a cette poussée xénophobe populiste qui amène aujourd'hui la Commission à rencontrer cette délégation talibane. Il y a cette poussée aussi dans le Parlement. Alors nous, nous n'avons pas rencontré les talibans, mais j'ai été négociatrice sur le règlement retour, un règlement honteux, immonde.
Et jusqu'au bout, dans le mandat du Parlement, il y avait cet article 37 qui faisait état de la collaboration avec des entités non reconnues. J'appelais ça l'article taliban. Il aurait permis d'avoir un dialogue, une collaboration avec notamment les talibans pour envoyer les migrants illégaux. Aujourd'hui, avec cette poussée xénophobe, on a totalement perdu nos valeurs et j'en suis absolument désolée. Et en tant que féministe, j'en suis désolée.
Et je pense que vous l'avez dit au départ, on ne parle pas seulement des femmes afghanes ici. Si aucune femme ne sera libre tant que toutes les femmes ne le seront pas. Et c'est important de le rappeler. Et nous continuons de nous battre. Et je me rappelle, vous l'avez dit, vous étiez là en septembre 2024, Madame Barakzai.
Et l'une des choses que vous nous avez dites à de nombreuses reprises, c'était : s'il vous plaît, ne normalisez pas la relation avec les talibans. Ne le faites pas parce que c'est nous condamner toutes.
Et aujourd'hui on le fait et j'en suis absolument désolée. Et en fait je ne sais pas quoi vous dire aujourd'hui. Peut-être vous demander maintenant qu'on en est là, comment nous, progressistes, Parlement européen, on peut continuer à travailler avec vous pour avoir enfin cette reconnaissance internationale de l'apartheid de genre, comment on peut poursuivre le chemin pour avoir cette victoire pour vous et pour toutes les femmes qui sont victimes du patriarcat le plus immonde aujourd'hui en Afghanistan et ailleurs dans le monde. Merci.
Lina Gálvez
Merci Melissa. And now Idana Otero you have the floor for two minutes and a half from the left.
Irene Montero
Thank you, I'm going to speak in English, in Spanish, sorry, as you. Bueno, muchas gracias a las intervinientes por los testimonios que habéis compartido. Yo creo que bueno, que vuestra voz demuestra una realidad que es muy visible y es que hay millones de mujeres en el mundo que estáis poniendo el cuerpo y jugándoos la vida por vuestros derechos y por los derechos de todas. La cuestión es que mucha gente no lo sabe, pero ahora mismo mientras estamos hablando hay una delegación de la Comisión Europea reunida con los talibanes, con esos mismos talibanes que la ONU denuncia por apartheid de género, que prohíben a las mujeres ir a la universidad, ir al instituto, pasear solas sin el acompañamiento de un hombre. Si un hombre pega a una mujer no es delito hasta que no le rompe los huesos.
Y se reúnen con los talibanes para negociar deportaciones, es decir, para dar de vuelta, volver de vuelta a esas personas que están huyendo de ese régimen. ¿Qué pasa entonces ahora con los derechos de las mujeres en Afganistán? Ahora ya no importan. Y yo creo que es importante no solo que pidamos perdón, sino que asumamos nuestra responsabilidad. Esto no es un error.
La mayoría de los grupos parlamentarios aquí presentes dan soporte a la Comisión Europea que se está reuniendo con los talibanes. La pasada semana la mayoría de la cámara aplaudía a una delegación de Emiratos Árabes, que tampoco son precisamente respetuosos con los derechos de las mujeres. ¿Cómo no se le cae a Europa la cara de vergüenza? Porque esto es una hipocresía absolutamente criminal y tenemos que asumir nuestra responsabilidad también en esta cámara. Es peor que hipocresía, es complicidad.
Y pasa lo mismo con las mujeres en Irán. Porque cuántas veces no nos han dicho solemnemente que ponían sanciones, la Unión Europea pone sanciones a Irán por los derechos humanos, por la libertad de las mujeres. Bombardean Irán por la libertad de las mujeres, como decía Patriots ahora. Y ahora Europa va a levantar las sanciones a Irán no porque las mujeres estén mejor, sino hablando en plata porque necesitan abrir el estrecho de Ormuz y para que Irán no tenga la bomba nuclear que Francia y que Estados Unidos sí que tienen. Israel lleva décadas ocupando ilegalmente Palestina, un genocidio y Europa ¿qué hace?
Apoyar a los israelíes, apoyar los crímenes de Estados Unidos. Yo de verdad creo que todo el mundo ve lo que hay. Y es que a Europa le dan igual los derechos de las mujeres afganas, de las kurdas, de las palestinas, de las iraníes, de las libanesas, de las de Sudán y de las de Mali. También los de las europeas, por cierto. Los derechos de las mujeres solamente les gustan cuando sirven para poner bonitas sus guerras, sus negocios y sus crímenes o los de Israel y los de Estados Unidos.
Y eso es una maldita vergüenza que estamos permitiendo todo el mundo en Europa.
Irmhild Boßdorf
Ja, ich möchte bitte auf Deutsch sprechen. Vielen Dank an die Rednerinnen. Ich bin ein bisschen erstaunt, weil das Schicksal der afghanischen Frauen doch deutlich unterschieden ist vom Schicksal der kurdischen Frauen. Und während die kurdischen Frauen vor allem als gleichberechtigste und fortschrittlichste in allen arabischen Ländern gelten, ist das bei den afghanischen Frauen eben gerade nicht so. Insofern sind da einfach zwei Sachen doch sehr wild durcheinander gegangen.
Ich möchte auch einfach noch mal dem Vorwurf entgegnen, die Taliban hätten Angst vor den Frauen. Nein, das ist nicht so. Die Frauen in Afghanistan werden so behandelt, weil es ihrer Religion inhärent ist, also der Religion, die in Afghanistan leider auf brutalste Weise ausgelebt wird. Und meine Frage bezieht sich hier noch mal auf die Kurden. Da wäre meine Frage an unsere kurdische Rednerin, ob es eine Erklärung dafür gibt, warum der Anteil der Christen in Kurdistan in den letzten Jahrzehnten drastisch abgenommen hat.
Er hat sich ja ungefähr, ja, ist nur noch ein Zehntel der Frauen christlich. Waren mal 1,5 Millionen christliche Kurden, jetzt sind es noch ungefähr 150.000 20 Jahre später. Gibt es dafür eine Erklärung? Und das andere ist ein einiges Kurdistan, ob es da vielleicht, vielleicht können Sie mal eine Einschätzung dazu geben, ob das vielleicht den Frauen dort auch helfen könnte in den Staaten, in denen die Kurden, die kurdischen Frauen noch nicht so gleichberechtigt sind. Danke.
Lina Gálvez
Oh, danke. And now there are a few more words, not many, so I will give the floor to the other members who want to take the floor and later on I will go back to you and give the floor back. You can probably answer. So Rosa Estaràs from EPP, please, the floor is yours, one minute or one minute and a half.
Rosa Estaràs Ferragut
Sí, muchas gracias a todas las participantes. Gracias por explicar el drama que se está viviendo en la zona de Afganistán y en la zona de Irán. Desde la toma ilegal por parte de los talibanes en el 2021, las mujeres y las niñas afganas han sido objeto de una persecución sistemática a través de más de 150 edictos que les ha privado de la educación tras acabar la educación primaria, el empleo, los derechos humanos, la libertad de educación, la atención sanitaria, la participación en la vida pública. Con el nuevo código de procedimiento penal esto se ha agravado y en este sentido se ha legalizado la violencia doméstica, se ha criminalizado a las mujeres que buscan protección frente a los abusos y de alguna manera se ha institucionalizado el castigo corporal y la esclavitud. Por eso aprobamos el pasado Estrasburgo el 21 de mayo una resolución.
Solicito que esta resolución se aplique enérgicamente. Allí manifestó por una amplísima mayoría lo que tenemos que hacer. El régimen talibán hay que condenarlo enérgicamente. Tiene que derogar con carácter urgente e inmediato este código. No podemos negociar nada con este régimen que atenta contra los derechos de las mujeres y hace un apartheid de género, matrimonio infantil y mil barbaridades.
Y por lo tanto hay que poner fin de manera inmediata a los castigos corporales, las flagelaciones, las ejecuciones públicas y que se levanten todas las restricciones de los derechos humanos. Nunca en la vida podemos normalizar esto porque sería atentar contra todo el edificio que hemos construido de valores en la Unión Europea. Y por lo tanto vamos a luchar e instar a los Estados miembros y a la Unión para que se dé toda la ayuda humanitaria y para que en ningún caso se normalice a este régimen que es un régimen absolutamente contrario a los derechos humanos. No solamente este, el de Venezuela, el de Cuba, el de Irán, el de Afganistán y tantos otros. Hay que estar en el lado de la historia en todos los sentidos y siempre que se atente contra los derechos humanos.
Muchas gracias.
Carolina Morace
Grazie, grazie presidente. Anch'io mi unisco alle scuse delle colleghe e mi vergogno in questo momento di far parte di questa istituzione. Però credo che dobbiamo essere comunque proattive e propongo che questa commissione adotti una dichiarazione formale di protesta e richieda anche un'audizione urgente alla Commissione europea affinché spieghi come questa iniziativa, questo invito sia compatibile con l'impegno della stessa Unione europea nella difesa dei diritti delle donne in genere e in particolare delle donne afghane, curde e iraniane. Grazie.
Lina Gálvez
Grazie. And now there are no more requests except mine, but as a Socialist and Democrat parliamentarian, so I know that to divide myself, I will speak in Spanish, that is my mother tongue. Very, very, I'm going to be very, very quick. A mí me gustaría también unirme a mis compañeras que han pedido perdón porque es realmente una vergüenza también desde mi punto de vista lo que lo que está pasando, pero me gustaría también pedir coherencia a los grupos políticos porque me gustaría recordar lo que he dicho antes, que están aquí porque ha habido una petición que viene ya de hace casi un año para que se entre en negociaciones. Por tanto, también hay una presión que debemos meter en nuestros Estados miembros para que no estén pidiéndole a la Comisión que haga eso.
Afortunadamente no es mi caso, España no está, el Gobierno de España no está entre los países que ha promovido esta esta reunión y por tanto en ese sentido tengo un poquito menos de vergüenza, pero como europea sin duda la la tengo. Y sí que me gustaría abiertamente apoyar la propuesta que ha hecho nuestra compañera Carolina Morace de pedir una declaración formal y una reunión con la Comisión para que, bueno, pues al menos desde el Parlamento podamos movernos. Pero a mí también me gustaría recordar que fue este mismo Parlamento el que acaba de votar la semana pasada precisamente que haya devoluciones a Estados miembros en los que se incluye también, se puede incluir también Afganistán con el riesgo que pueden, bueno, pues correr las mujeres afganas que están ahora pidiendo refugio en Europa o curdas o iraníes, ¿no? Por tanto, apoyo la propuesta de de Carolina Morace y creo que hay que exigirnos también coherencia, bueno, pues para poder realmente tener la voz y ser la voz, como decía Melissa, la voz de quienes no pueden tener voz para que la escuche la comunidad internacional. So now yes, I stop myself as a MEP and go back as chair and give you the floor in the same order we started before.
So I would like to give the floor to Ms. Metra Mehran for two minutes, please. Thank you very much.
Metra Mehran
Thank you so much, honorable Galvez. I just wanted to say thank you for clarification on EU's position and it's reassuring to hear all honorable parliament members standing in solidarity with us. Just briefly, I want to go back to the honorable Bossdorf, apologies if I'm not pronouncing your name right, from Germany. I think that's not a good justification, religion or culture. At Afghanistan Justice Archive, I'm monitoring and documenting Taliban decrees and none of them in any way women-supported.
But that's why we are asking for codification of gender apartheid or using all international law where the religion and culture shouldn't be an excuse for persecution of women and girls. And that's why recognizing and codifying and making it law is important. When something is crimes against humanity, then that's where religion cannot be used as an excuse. And that's why we are pursuing all accountability pathways to make sure that not be an excuse used by the Taliban and international community. And I would really like you to push the German government to give us clarification on where the ICJ case is.
They announced, but we see that they are not standing by their commitment to the women of Afghanistan on taking forward the case while accepting Taliban terrorists' diplomats to Germany. That's where I would like to see your solidarity. But please do not excuse religion or culture for allowing gender persecution and oppression of women and girls in Afghanistan or anywhere else in the world. So I want to conclude by saying that I urge European Parliament first and foremost to take a principled rights-based approach to Afghanistan by supporting the ongoing efforts to codify gender apartheid in the proposed crimes against humanity treaty and also exploring avenues within EU law and policy to recognize and address systems of institutionalized gender oppression. Second, ensure that accountability remains central to all engagements with Afghanistan, including by increasing political and financial support for the independent investigative mechanism for Afghanistan and other international accountability initiatives.
Third, stand firmly with women of Afghanistan human rights defenders, journalists, and refugees through expanded resettlement pathways, a strong commitment to the principles of non-refoulement and sustained protection for those at risk. And lastly, increase direct, flexible, and long-term funding to independent Afghanistan civil society organizations inside the country, particularly those led and managed by women, so they can continue their vital work documenting abuses, providing services, and also maintaining and sustaining the civil space. Thank you so much.
Lina Gálvez
Thank you, thank you very much also for these very concrete proposals. And now I would like to give the floor back, now I think I've learned to pronounce much better the name, Ms. Shukria Barakzai.
Shukria Barakzai
Oh, thank you. Okay, fantastic. First of all, thank you so much for your unity and solidarity with Afghan women. But allow me to be clear.
Every invitation extended to the Taliban, every photograph, every meeting without accountability is a betrayal of millions of Afghan women, girls who have lost their rights, their dreams and their future. Their future. Taliban is not today. Think and imagine in the past five years, zero Afghan girls has been graduated from school. No.
This is not today. They took us our dream and our future. And this is not diplomacy. This is normalizing gender apartheid what European Union is doing. The international community must decide.
Will they stand with the victim or those who oppress them? Afghan women do not need sympathy. They need action, justice and solidarity. And I really thank you for your understanding. But allow me to also use my brain as a lawmaker despite of being a ambassador and lots more and today I am a just activist.
I feel proud. European Union is not a body which is I could say they are from sky. They are also part of this system. You have the power. Please use your power, impeach them and hold them accountable.
We have to end that culture and normalization. When it comes to Afghan refugees, is that the first time Europe hosting a refugees? But why they are going to normalize their relationship? They are not giving the same stage, the same protocol, the same tension to women for freedom, for human rights according to international law. We are not talking about one individual country.
There are member states and my message is for your state as well. Please do not normalize your relationship with terrorist group. These are the one that once upon a time, not too far, six years back, your soldiers fight with them. At least for the sake of their memory, for their dignity, do not put red carpet. Do not provide them let's say a very first class business ticket and do not receive them as a guest.
Let the voice of freedom fighter to be a future maker. Thank you, Madam President. And thank you, members.
Lina Gálvez
Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. Sometimes I cannot do what I want to do being a chair because it's more institutional but yeah, that really and also the previous speaker touched me, I'm sure you will touch me as well so the floor is yours.
Regina Victoria Doabi
Thank you. For the question regarding the religion, listen, Kurdish community and Kurdish people are diverse. We have, as I said, Christians, Jews, Yazidis, Shia Muslim, Sunni Muslim, non-religious people as myself. Well, I believe in the stars and the moon but that's a whole other story. We have lived side by side for thousands of years and religion came and they went and they stayed.
What ended us as people was power, terrorist groups, was invaders, was colonizers and ideologies.
It can be religious ideologies and it can be political ideologies. It can be fascism, it can be racism, it can be anything. But we have respect and we still live side by side in those areas where there's peace. For instance, Christians in Rojava were the safest because it was Kurdish ruled. And actually, it's not right that it decreased, it was increased Christians because some converted to Christianity.
But please let's not talk about culture and religion, it's about their fundamental rights. And for your other question about whether Kurdistan could help women's rights. First of all, that's up to the Kurdish people to decide for a Kurdistan. Second, but let me tell you about our culture and our understanding that is really deeply rooted in both our culture but also politically. You can't be Kurdish and not political, it's just within us.
There cannot be a Kurdistan without women's liberation and there can be no struggle fought without their participation, women's participation. It's not up to me, it's up to the Kurdish people to decide for themselves, but now you know our culture, how that is. Thank you.
Lina Gálvez
Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. What could I say? So thank you to all of you as well for supporting Afghan, Kurdistan, Iranian women and all women that are really suffering, that they have their present and their future, you were very right, their future completely stolen. And yeah, there will be no democracy without women's rights and there will be no women's liberation if we are not all free. So let's keep pushing, not only words, but also keeping the Commission and Member States accountable and asking them not to normalize, not to normalize the relationship with a regime that it is not legally recognized as such, but that is denying everything that we say it is, they are our core values.
So really stick to our core values in all situations, including today. So thank you, thank you, thank you very much for bringing these testimonies here, for bringing the voices of the women and girls that cannot even sometimes show their faces, not even speak. So thank you, thank you very much. Also for the interpreters, I have to apologize because first it was a slow down and I haven't seen it, sorry, it was when Edina was talking, you were talking too fast anyway. And so sorry about that and thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
So just a couple of minutes and we will continue with the next. So sorry about that, but the next point, I did not know we have to wait until 17:45 because.
Ask anything about this video — I analyse its transcript to answer.